Tropes, Nostalgia, and Liminal Spaces: Investigating Repetition in Analog Photography
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- In this video, I talk about a handful of common tropes in film photography, and investigate why it is that we gravitate towards photographing certain subjects. I talk about the instagram page Analog_Repeat, which catalogues examples of these tropes, and share some thoughtful insights from the creator of this page. The key theme in this video is nostalgia, which also affects our interpretation of "liminal spaces". I provide some examples of liminal space imagery, and draw parallels with common film photography clichés. Finally, I discuss the way that the medium of a photograph (film vs digital) affects our interpretation of it, and the value that certain subjects hold over others when captured on film.
Find me on instagram and grainery @Yhanson_Photography!
Check out Analog_Repeat: / analog_repeat
If any art form disappears through the sheer weight of over analysis, surely photography has to be the top candidate. Utterly soul destroying but necessary viewing. Thanks Yvonne.
Always a pleasure 😂
i also recently wondered "why do we all take photos of old stuff," and i've always shied away from taking photos with any modern cars in them. then i saw grainydays' jason wonder aloud the same thing when there was a modern car in a photo he wanted to take. he ended up taking it, saying maybe in 20-30 years that car will be "vintage." definitely interesting to think about. well done!
That's a cool way to spin it! I've taken photos with modern cars in them, but almost exclusively on digital cameras. Probably for the same reason!
I was confronted by a friend recently about why I take more photos of old cars than of new cars. Truth is that... New cars look kinda lame. I don't think I take more photos of old cars, I take more photos of cars with vibrant colors and shapes, with more character to them. Cars nowadays look like copy paste grey repeats, there's nothing distinct about them. The other day I found a composition and wanted a red car to fit a specific portion of the frame, I couldn't take it, all the cars were shades of gray.
Fifties and sixties crappily restored (read junky cosmetic mods and engines they were never designed to have) “classic” cars are a dime a hundred-weight. What grabs my attention is the lesser models from the seventies and eighties that somehow just survived for 40 to 50 years, and have no known collector following , like the K-car, Chevy Citation, and Hyundai Pony. When I see one I stop and photograph it, film or digital, whatever is on me then, with background clues that it’s present-day.
@@YvonneHansonPhotographyTrue, as many commenters point out, modern looks monotonous. Cars look the same because they aspire toward the same economic/ aerodynamic end, not a priority in the “classic” days, leading to a single shape and size regardless of brand that a computer says will achieve that.
Even digital camera brands from 20 feet away look very like one another, though more for ergonomic and cost-to-make aims.
I also think the lighting is an important difference between liminal and analog. The liminal spaces often have fluorescent/harsh overhead lighting. It’s rarely “flattering” to the scene. The analog photos are taken during golden hour or are light by street lamps/ pretty neon signs. It would be interesting to take a photo, on digital, of a liminal space with analog-style lighting and see if the result is liminal or nostalgic.
Yeah I like that idea! And its something I noticed for most of them as well- the sunlight has a big impact on how we interpret the scene, particularly for the laundromat ones. It would be fun to do a "how liminal is it" challenge and test how lighting/ medium affects liminality.
I was thinking about that, but in the opposite direction. They are still at the lab, but I walked down to my local semi-abandoned mall to shoot some liminal (or liminal-adjacent) photos on film. My thought was that a digital camera would automatically adjust for the fluorescent lights, while daylight film would give that sickly green cast and boost the melancholy. Next time I'll try shooting similar scenes in film and RAW. I'd like to see what happens if I balance the RAW to daylight or fluorescent.
This is the best videos I’ve seen on the topic. Now I feel inclined to binge your entire backlog
this video was honestly such a great lil study into understanding how far removed we are from when so many of these tropes, and photography in general, began and finding the beauty in that. among all the other things you brought up lol this was just a great video, thank you for exploring all this
i didn’t necessarily phrase this in the way i meant but, i hope that makes sense. true creativity comes from not caring, even if everything is just a derivative of a derivative
This phenomena occurs in everything and it impacts prices of what you want. During the weeks of projection in theaters of that recent movie about history of blackberry cellphones, Ebay's old blackberries phones were selling often twice price. Another example in telescopes sold by Celestron maker. Modern ones are sometimes affordable brand new (black Celestron C90 for about $250), but older 70s orange color Celestron 90 same model, but giving much worst images of Sky, sell about $500-$800 used. Attractivness of nostalgic telescopes unaffordable when we were young is very strong. By the way this phenomena is used in alzheimer rehabilitation; presenting as much old photos and locations as possible from past of the person to keep her memory somehow connected and usable for communication. Your analyse is brillant as usual. Bravo!
Whenever I watch your videos, I leave with a smile, lots of insights to explore, and an urge to go out and shoot. Keep up the awesome work, you rock.
Aye this means so much! Thank you! And thanks for taking the time to watch :D
It makes total sense to me now you said that the unique feelings you got from looking at liminal space images were actually coming from a technology that didn't quite exist back then. Good insights as well as observations!
Thank you for making this and articulating our collective experience. 'I think someone's taken this image before. It doesn't matter, I'll take it anyway.'
Great video! I was recommended this video from my home page, so I think RUclips’s gonna give you an algorithm boost soon
YAY I love to hear that. Thank you! And thanks for watching :D
Great video. I think the issue is that people get into analogue photography without developing their eye first, and regard the analogue medium/process as a genre, or a goal in itself. There's a marked difference in quality/originality between the gas station/pool ladder photographers (no disrespect) and people who have honed their skills on digital first, or who have been shooting analog long enough to develop their own style.
Excellent and well written!
A few random points.
Something i think is interesting is that these cliché photos never WERE what we think they were.
Take the vintage car tail-light picture. If that was taken in the 60's, people would have looked at it and thought it boring and stupid. When we look at it now, it looks boring a clichéd. So it never was a cool photo!
The reason people gravitate towards these tropes is because they (the people) are very limited in terms of subject matter they can choose. If we could get in our time machine and jump out in New York in 1975, we could point the camera in any direction and, with a bit of luck or skill, get a cool vintage snap. That's no longer the case. So people looking to recreate that vibe (for whatever reason) are limited in terms of subject matter (and perhaps imagination) so they gravitate to pictures that aren't "ruined" by modern realities.
If, on our 1975 day out, we walked into a diner on a rainy day, we're immediately stepping into a photogenic scene. Condensation on the windows, cool lighting, people funkily dressed. Good luck finding a diner with condensation or cool lighting these days, technology has conspired to remove these things, with modern A.C. preventing condensation and "better" lighting etc.
One last point: analog photographs that come from the actual analog age are special to me because they're photographs that couldn't have existed in the digital age. Because in the digital age, there's always a better picture to take, so you fire off 20 shots and choose the best one (and of course photoshop it to death afterwards). Not so in the days of analog, which gives those pix a more human, imperfect feel, never being the "best" picture available at that moment.
Anyways, more though-provoking videos like this, please!
Thanks for the video. I want to think more about liminal and nostalgic.
I don’t understand alot of what you said but I do really like to take photos that make me feel nostalgic. Sometimes I know that maybe other people have taken them but that doesn’t bother me. They have taken “their version of it” then, I take “my version of it for me”. I’m retired and don’t sell photos so it might be different for someone who does sell photos. Having said all that,I do like to look for photo opportunities that might be unusual and not often photographed. Yevonne, your videos are very good. I really like listening/visting with you, you are such a great speaker and very knowledgeable.
Thank you so much for watching! And yes, o agree- even when we photograph the same location or object, our photos are infused with our vision, our creativity, and are therefore unique to us!
Hi. Fantastic video! Finally I watch a proper photography RUclips video that’s not telling me what to do and points out what I’ve been thinking about for so long, this constant flood of Americana style nostalgia photos, still everywhere, still going strong, and its authors still getting a lot of exposure. I’m frankly sick of it. Well pointed out. I could say so much more but I’m sleepy, going to watch some more of your stuff. Best wishes x
Aye thank you so much for watching! I'm glad it resonated with you, and I'm glad I can provide content that hits a bit differently than most photography stuff on RUclips!
Thanks. Really enjoyed this discussion and examples. Ps. You’re still adorable !
Omg, loved, loved, loved this video! Thanks for talking about this. Just subscribed to your channel.
Thank you for the sub!! I'm glad you liked this topic, I have a lot more to say about it for a future video 😅
Look forward to hearing more on this topic. I just got back into film photography and I often find myself photographing the kind of subjects you spoke about. The nostalgia factor does make a ton of sense. 😊
Fantastic video overall. Just also wanted to say that at 14:45, I had a big realisation of why nostalgic photos from Russia and other places I grew up in hit way different than some of the more common ones I see in the U.S
That's really cool! I would be really interested to see some examples of nostalgic images that hit you particularly hard
All this is super interesting and everyone should watch it
This is a wildly good assessment, I think liminal and film photography have some overlaps. I do agree the sterility and sometimes low-res nature of older digital cameras lends itself to the uncanny nature of liminal spaces. I do think that just like anything else, composition and lighting play a huge role as well. Liminal space pics are often more amateur in nature where film photographers take more care in framing their shot. Fantastic vid! You deserve way more views!
Thank you so much for watching, and for taking the time to comment! I agree that lighting and composition play a big role, it's not something I discussed but I should have touched on it!
WOW!… That's what I call: "a proper feeding"… Excellent upload. 🙏🏿
I only discovered you recently, but I really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work!
Thank you for watching! I really appreciate the support!
Your video was deep in a thinking way. I think you’re on to something.
Something that stood out to me when comparing between liminal and nostalgic images is that liminal photos don't seem to have a subject--or perhaps that their focus was specifically on the lack of subjects. The nostalgic photos either did seem to have a specific subject (a tree, a trailer, a tree), or had a general landscape focus. I think that contributed a ton to the uneasiness of liminal photos as compared to the nostalgic ones.
That's an interesting observation! I definitely see what you mean, and I agree it's probably a good factor in the difference
Lots of interesting insights. Once again, the medium is the message.
Even as a digital photographer, I find myself drawn to a lot of old stuff. Rundown buildings, broken glass, cut off lamp posts, classic automobiles. Everyone is like "Why do you care about that busted fountain", but there I am.
hahaha, same- for me with digital its fire hydrants and peeling paint. Show me a wall with many layers of paint all chipping off being hit by the sun just right and I WILL snap a picture of it, there's no avoiding it.
@@YvonneHansonPhotography A lot of other photographers that I talk to say that they feel drawn to photograph things that remind them of "home" - perhaps this is the key behind both the nostalgic and the liminal and why we are drawn to it. Coming from a podunk town in the Ozarks, that was ramshackle buildings and old cars for me I guess.
4:29 bottom right corner - one of my photos featured on analog repeat. I was driving cross country and saw that sign from the opposite side of the road and it stood out to me enough within the landscape that I got off the next exit and turned around to go back and shoot it - in 114 degree Arizona desert heat. I had no idea it was a popular location and hadn't seen photos of it before, it just looked interesting so I shot it. 2 years later I passed the sign again and couldn't resist shooting it again, even then knowing it had been shot to death by that point. Sometimes you just wanna shoot a photo of something that stands out to you. And sometimes you want to go to a location where you've seen the same photo shot dozens of times and make your own version of it. Vemodalen is real.
Sounds like you're doing photography for the right reasons: because it feels good and compelling at the time!
How funny, as you showed the tropes I caught myself thinking "Well that's something I planned to take a photo of, too" Not neccessarily pools, but old cars (even American ones, although I'm from Germany) and fuel stations. Are vintage street lamps a thing, too, in Canada?
Maybe it's not only a longing for childhood memories but for times we think were simpler and nicer?
Thought in the same way: what makes an analog photo seem nicer than a digital one?
My thought: Modern digital photos can be very sharp, very true to real colors. But memory is always biased. We remember places more colorful, more cozy. Analog pictures too are seldomly tack sharp and very true to color. They tend to bias to certain colors. They are sometimes grainy.
That's maybe the point with those analog tropes.
Best wishes from Hamburg, Germany!
Vintage street lamps are not so much a thing here! Our "vintage" is 60-70 years old, and anything older than that is "antique" since we only have about 150 years of architecture on this side of the pond XD I'd be really curious to see a particularly German/ European perspective through analog photography because I'm sure the things you grew accustomed to in childhood are different than over here!
I guess I see the "trope" photos a little differently. They may be the same general subject but each one is unique with its own location, condition, lighting, composition, atmosphere, texture, etc. I suppose there are some people copying others, but that's human nature. Artists have been influenced by other artists forever. I myself have a basketball net shot taken at a local park. The net is broken and hanging raggedly from the hoop and it intrigues me. I still don't have the definitive shot I want, and I'll go back and try again, probably more than once. It matters not to me that others have taken thousands of net shots. "My" net intrigues me. I enjoy your channel.
Lighting, framing... a lot of that also has to do with liminal vs nostalgic feeling, I think. Film has a beauty to it that adds warmth, it's undeniable, but I have seen a lot of nostalgia sought out in images that try to capture a filmic experience (such as with film simulations done by Fujifilm).
Also, there is a lot to be said of how "Americana" is almost a trauma response of post-WW2 cultural change, which would definitely lend some extra interesting food for thought. I don't think that's a bad thing, either, just clearly as you say, distinctly self-focused in ways we don't really self-reflect about.
Great video about being original with film without getting too cynical or pessimistic haha. Here are my two cents: Before anyone could have uploaded a photo to the worldwide web, millions of film photos have been taken by people already, between 1935-1990, and mostly with very basic exposuring systems. To replicate those vintage photographs, contemporary photographers limit their tools to film cameras and easy, impressionistic subject matter, such as the basketball hoop and gas station. The ultimate result, after the decay of the world or if a solar event kills all computing servers on earth, are tiny film negatives that the 1925-1990 generation had. Those people are just not lucky enough to share it online like we are able to. In conclusion, it's all groovy as long as we are making photographs!
I certainly choose to shoot different subjects on film than I do on digital, I gravitate to more vintage looking subjects on film, I think because analogue images feel more substantial & longer lived than digital images, so it stands to reason that I shoot subjects that are substantial enough to have stood the test of time
Prewatch comment: I would have a "Digital repeat" IG account, but it's the rest of IG. :) Post watch comment: I was mildly angered by the account, and mildly amused ... so I'm very glad you took the time to message him and talk about it. This is a super fascinating video ... I have so many thoughts. I pretty much agree with your conclusions, and the whole difference of them shot on film and digital is next-level stuff. I was in a digital-heavy time of my life when I got to photograph my old kindergarten and first grade school, which had been built as part of the New Deal, was slated for demolition. It had fallen into ruin, but was still packed with desks and I couldn't quite remember what my specific classroom was, but it was literally like touring a place that had fallen out of time. Maybe I was unhappy with all of that because I'd never have had a Hasselblad digital in 1985-1987. I find that what draws me to a lot of things like that is not necessarily purely nostalgia or the feeling of abandonment and neglect ... but maybe a combination of the two. OK, I'll post this before I go on too much longer. Need to discuss this more. ha ha. Also, I took the Roy's sign photo for the exact reason you stated. Not gonna let the internet stop me. :)
Also, I’ve often thought about the time I took a deep dive through the archives of my grad school’s photo program (once once of the best in the nation) and the seismic shift of subject matter the year before they went digital (studio work, documentary, editorial stuff), and the years after (lunch, mostly).
Oh my gosh, photographing a direlect school that you had attended would be the ultimate liminal space material....I'm kind of jealous! And re: digital tropes, I think it would be really fun to do a video discussing those too- the yellow rain jackets and waterfalls type stuff- but that's for the future!
I need to go back through my files from that ... I could have spent entire days in there. I do have some access to a childhood Post Office from a similar era, but it's still in use as a community space. It matters as basically my first internet. Gosh, brain is working a lot now. ha ha.
Its a thought i’ve had ever since getting back into analog photography and i’ve been guilty of being on the liminal space bandwagon because its been a obsession I had since the early 2000s when it just started as a obsession of B&W photos of surreal places during the mid 20th century. I have recognised how repetitive analog photography has gotten and i’ve been stocking on film for a project that i’ve been wanting to do for over a decade and i’m scared that its something that someone else has already done but i’ll have to find out lol.
Damn such an amazing video. Also I feel calling things cliche is cliche. But what does a 40 year old white male from the Midwest know. Thanks for the great content. Subscribed. Also Jamie Maldonado sent me here. Cheers.
Ayeee Jamie Maldonado has been a great influence on my channel! Thanks for watching!!
People tend to take snapshots or photos of old cars because the design elements stand out from knowing about how things change over time. And there's a difference with taking a snapshot of the car and looking for design elements to isolate in a picture when you're trying to make a photograph.
Like with architecture, you don't usually take a picture of the whole building.
But in regards to film, one thing I see over and over is that people who "discover" film photography is that they take snapshots, but think because it's done on film and not digital, it automatically elevates because it is film.
Right along with "film forces you to slow down....". When all you have to do is just still use your digital camera and just take one picture at a time. No need for pretentiousness.
11:00 the question is can you make digital the same feeling as film and if so, is it more than using Kodak film emulsion luts?
I use both film and digital and take liminal space photos, funny you should say that but I found my film liminal photos did not feel "eerie and liminal" as the ones on my digital camera do... now it makes sense as to why 😱
I wonder if the subject matter choices are also a side-effect of having 36 exposures on a roll. With digital, you can photography anything and everything all day long. Sure, you'll still get popular tropes, but also a greater diversity. But when with film, developing, and scanning each photo costs around a dollar, you shoot what makes you feel something. And nostalgia is a powerful feeling
That is a super neat observation, and I bet there's a lot of truth to it. I hadn't considered that, but of course when we have limited frames we prioritize the emotionally impactful stuff!
Hi my time learning photography was with B&W film the colour film. One of the things I do was to photography the shop front windows with there display lights on items on sale my photo would be from across the road or others would be the window frame or a one item piece. Other would be light reflections on petrol stations. My time in taking the photo would be after might night. It gave you a thought on how a analog film worked.
It's great if you tell yourself it's unique no one ever shot it like this. Last week i went to a gas station I had photographed in the past. I knew it but shot it thinking I would have done it differently. Turns out I shot 4 exact same photos to the past pics 😂
Hahaha I have a few collections of the same shot on different filmstocks...
Taking photos is a process, of which owning/sharing the end product is just a part. You may as well ask: Why cook a curry when someone else has made curry? Why watch a film that someone else has watched? Why walk a path that someone else has walked? Why make a vase when someone else has made a vase?
This is a great comparison. I think this is a nice and simple answer!
The majority of film photography online seems to revolve around dead lifeless things. Gas stations, abandoned buildings, empty alleys, garbage cans, basketball hoops, etc. Twenty years from now, when these people are looking back at their work, is anyone really going to care about a picture they took of a gas station or a basketball hoop or a garbage can? People can shoot whatever they want, it's their money they can spend it however they choose. But I just don't understand the appeal of these things. I think this is why I prefer pictures of people, these photos have more life to them.
Todd Hido has been doing work on liminal spaces on film for a long time I don’t think digital has anything to do with it.
Perhaps street photography brings more opportunities to capture truly unique moments when we seek out unusual and different situations...but how old is photography? How many photos have been taken? And now that everyone has a cellphone?
Specifically for me, analog photography is a therapy that compels me to think, as I have a limited number of photos I can take, typically 36 exposures.
But that's the opinion of a simple amateur photographer who has never studied photography, art, or psychology... 🙃
I totally agree! There is something about working within parameters that really appeals to me with film photography. Perhaps a good topic for a future video :D
Interesting considerations, unfortunately i cannot regate because i grew up with digital being dominant since i was like 4 or 5. I recently started with analog and it does give me a totally different vibe, maybe because i feel a greater connection with the shots i took
Bye :)
That's a cool way to look at it too! Something about creating an object with light has a really neat, tangible appeal.
Need to read fontcuberta
2020: The world became a liminal space
I both agree and disagree, there's no shame or anything wrong with taking a cliché photo and the attraction to vintage subjects is not surprising. However, there is something to be said about it being 'hipster crap' because the stereotypes and jokes about the analogue community do ring true sometimes. From the lil' beanie joke to the one about Leica owners taking more photos of their camera than with it. The art form doesn't exist in a vacuum and not without a community that prefers a certain aesthetic. So if likes are the game, cliché photos are the game.
Is it a trope if you don't know it's a trope? As far as you know, you're the first one to have taken 'that' pic?
Great point! And for a lot of the shots on Analog Repeat, I bet the folks who took them had no idea it was such a repetitive photo
Tropes aren't just things you do intentionally
@@kevinchristopher1443 If a trope falls in a wood, but no-one is there to see it...
Many of these places are as much photographed in digital.