Well put together chaps. Not always the easiest topic to break down and discuss. I'm lucky enough to own an Eizo monitor (which I calibrate on a regular basis) and I use the profiling service from Fotospeed for my Canon Pro-10s. I very rarely have any significant issues between capture and print. It's been worth the learning, time and cost. :-)
Thanks Andrew. We did our best. I think people get unduly scared by colour management and once you can start to visualise things it actually ISNT that hard. Unfortunately colour is a bit of a conceptual nightmare - particularly because our vision adapts so well!
Tim Nevell Photography yes I would say don’t use profoto and only use AdobeRGB if you have a wide gamut monitor and understand the conversion process etc.
@@alexnail Thanks Alex, yes im using BenQ SW320 which writes the LUT directly to the monitor from my i1display pro, I just have 1000's of tiffs in ProPhoto, and currently convert them to sRGB for web display purposes.
@@timnevellphotography you could do it as and when you open them if you wished. Really the only risk with having them in profoto is that you have edited to colours that you can't see on your monitor. If you converted to AdobeRGB or sRGB you would probably only see the slightest change because most of the colours would already be within those gamuts.
@@alexnail Thanks Alex great advice for everyone this, I have been going through a number of files and as you say there is either none or very minimal shift that I can see from viewing histogram etc, not being someone who prints much the impact thus far to me is minimal, but I have gone in and changed the settings in RAW etc to open in Adobe RGB - so thanks again to you and Tim for the info, I look forward to more topics from you both and enjoying your editing series continue. . . cheers mate!
Hi Alex, so I think I will also work in sRGB. I had trouble with a night shot of the milky way and it seemed something to to with the color space. For stacking they advise to have the pictures to be stacked in pro photo (starry landscape stacker) and I was working in photoshop on adobe RGB. It got too confusing. So I will go full sRGB. Just another question, do you set your camera on capturing sRGB or I guess it doesn't matter as you shoot RAW?
Correct yes it doesn’t really matter :) I do have it set to sRGB though just in case I shoot JPEGs at a family event or something. I think with starry landscape stacker you should just use sRGB too and see how it handles it. It should be absolutely fine.
Enjoyed that, although maybe I didn't understand lots of it..lol. Question Alex. I have sometimes posted images to web that I have mistakenly exported from Lightroom using to the profoto colour profile and it exported as Profoto. Would that be the reason why when they have shown on the web, they looktotally wrong on my screen after posting them, washed out in some colours etc?
Yes, many browsers aren't colour managed. This is one of the problems with using larger colour spaces, it happens to people all the time. I would recommend using sRGB throughout your workflow Alan unless you have a wide gamut monitor in which case you could consider using Adobe RGB. Sorry it was still confusing - we did our best!
Really interesting video, lots of useful information. I have a couple of questions I would like to ask: 1) Is there any point at all at using an sRGB color space, if the majority of laboratories I work with are using Adobe RGB profiles for printing? I don't see any benefit in working with sRGB if I know that my work will be reviewed according to the market standards (maybe I am wrong, but I would like to hear your thoughts); 2) I am using a MacBook Pro for editing my photos, and I typically use Adobe RGB profile. Should I switch to sRGB instead, since I am quite sure that laptop isn't enough to display the Adobe RGB gamut? Thanks!
1) none of those labs can actually print the full AdobeRGB colour space (though some are closer than others). At best, if you have a calibrated AdobeRGB monitor then you can use soft proofing and their printer profile to get an idea of how the colours will change. The benefit to sRGB is that since most printers can print the full gamut you know what you are going to get is what you see on screen assuming proper colour management and calibration. In fact if you convert sRGB to Adobe RGB at the end the colours won’t change because Adobe RGB is larger in all dimensions. As for ‘reviewed to the market standards’ this implies that there might be some sort of significant difference and there really isn’t. You will only see any difference at all when printing extremely rich reds (though this needs and awesome printer) or the kinds of cyans and greens I printed in this video m. Even then you would only notice a difference if the prints were put next to each-other. I’m also not sure that less garish, mega saturated colours would actually be seen as a disadvantage anyway. One of the reasons I don’t care to use AdobeRGB is I just don’t want insanely saturate cyan (for example) in my images, ever! 2) Yes - exactly! Since you can’t see the ‘extra’ range of colours that Adobe RGB provides how could you possibly edit with them in mind? You could end up with a scenario where you have a bright cyan in an image that looks duller on your screen, so you think it’s fine....but then you print it and you get this crazy saturated cyan! Only use AdobeRGB if you have an AdobeRGB monitor.
Am I right in saying Lightroom's raw files won't be affected at the start of the process as they haven't a colour space assigned yet?( as I understood the choosing of colour spaces on camera pertained to jpegs which I don't use or am I wrong there) and will kick into effect when lightroom exports to another program so if I set in preferences it to export in srgb it will assign that colour space then at that point? I have until now used Profoto in ps then converted for the web and so proofed for each paper type when printing.. but am convinced to go to sRGB all the way as it where now but was wondering about the best way to implement it..
Correct. This was a question that we answered int he second part which I havent edited yet! I just had a quick look at your work Glen (again - I've certianly seen your images from time to time!) I think with your shooting and editing style you will only very very rarely have images that are outside the sRGB gamut and it IS an easier process. I'm still very happy with sRGB, and made that active choice when I replaced my monitor a few months ago. To work in sRGB I would set the preferences in Lightroom to export to sRGB so that they are sRGB in Photoshop. Photoshop will honour that colourspace, but I have warning set up so that if an image isn't in sRGB I know about it (since I want to know if I am editing colours that I can't see!)
This was excellent; I’ve learned so much from this. Thank you Alex and Tim!
James Lane no worries James
More people need to watch this. Very educational 👍
Yeah, its just a boring subject that people shy away from!
Well put together chaps. Not always the easiest topic to break down and discuss. I'm lucky enough to own an Eizo monitor (which I calibrate on a regular basis) and I use the profiling service from Fotospeed for my Canon Pro-10s. I very rarely have any significant issues between capture and print. It's been worth the learning, time and cost. :-)
Julian Baird Photography for sure, it’s one of those fundamentals that can create a lot of frustration if you ignore it!
Thanks! Good information and it gives me a lot to ponder.
Yeah, keep it simple is what I say - sRGB all the way!
That was brilliant , you both made things sound quite uncomplicated , nice to see Tim its been a while
Thanks Andrew. We did our best. I think people get unduly scared by colour management and once you can start to visualise things it actually ISNT that hard. Unfortunately colour is a bit of a conceptual nightmare - particularly because our vision adapts so well!
Very helpful. Thank you
great content Alex & Tim, think I will move away from ProPhoto then! Thanks and keep the learning content coming please. . .
Tim Nevell Photography yes I would say don’t use profoto and only use AdobeRGB if you have a wide gamut monitor and understand the conversion process etc.
@@alexnail Thanks Alex, yes im using BenQ SW320 which writes the LUT directly to the monitor from my i1display pro, I just have 1000's of tiffs in ProPhoto, and currently convert them to sRGB for web display purposes.
@@timnevellphotography you could do it as and when you open them if you wished. Really the only risk with having them in profoto is that you have edited to colours that you can't see on your monitor. If you converted to AdobeRGB or sRGB you would probably only see the slightest change because most of the colours would already be within those gamuts.
@@alexnail Thanks Alex great advice for everyone this, I have been going through a number of files and as you say there is either none or very minimal shift that I can see from viewing histogram etc, not being someone who prints much the impact thus far to me is minimal, but I have gone in and changed the settings in RAW etc to open in Adobe RGB - so thanks again to you and Tim for the info, I look forward to more topics from you both and enjoying your editing series continue. . . cheers mate!
Tim Nevell Photography no worries - if there is anything else let me know :)
Hi Alex, so I think I will also work in sRGB. I had trouble with a night shot of the milky way and it seemed something to to with the color space. For stacking they advise to have the pictures to be stacked in pro photo (starry landscape stacker) and I was working in photoshop on adobe RGB. It got too confusing. So I will go full sRGB.
Just another question, do you set your camera on capturing sRGB or I guess it doesn't matter as you shoot RAW?
Correct yes it doesn’t really matter :) I do have it set to sRGB though just in case I shoot JPEGs at a family event or something.
I think with starry landscape stacker you should just use sRGB too and see how it handles it. It should be absolutely fine.
Enjoyed that, although maybe I didn't understand lots of it..lol. Question Alex. I have sometimes posted images to web that I have mistakenly exported from Lightroom using to the profoto colour profile and it exported as Profoto. Would that be the reason why when they have shown on the web, they looktotally wrong on my screen after posting them, washed out in some colours etc?
Yes, many browsers aren't colour managed. This is one of the problems with using larger colour spaces, it happens to people all the time. I would recommend using sRGB throughout your workflow Alan unless you have a wide gamut monitor in which case you could consider using Adobe RGB.
Sorry it was still confusing - we did our best!
Really interesting video, lots of useful information.
I have a couple of questions I would like to ask:
1) Is there any point at all at using an sRGB color space, if the majority of laboratories I work with are using Adobe RGB profiles for printing?
I don't see any benefit in working with sRGB if I know that my work will be reviewed according to the market standards (maybe I am wrong, but I would like to hear your thoughts);
2) I am using a MacBook Pro for editing my photos, and I typically use Adobe RGB profile. Should I switch to sRGB instead, since I am quite sure that laptop isn't enough to display the Adobe RGB gamut?
Thanks!
1) none of those labs can actually print the full AdobeRGB colour space (though some are closer than others). At best, if you have a calibrated AdobeRGB monitor then you can use soft proofing and their printer profile to get an idea of how the colours will change.
The benefit to sRGB is that since most printers can print the full gamut you know what you are going to get is what you see on screen assuming proper colour management and calibration. In fact if you convert sRGB to Adobe RGB at the end the colours won’t change because Adobe RGB is larger in all dimensions.
As for ‘reviewed to the market standards’ this implies that there might be some sort of significant difference and there really isn’t. You will only see any difference at all when printing extremely rich reds (though this needs and awesome printer) or the kinds of cyans and greens I printed in this video m. Even then you would only notice a difference if the prints were put next to each-other. I’m also not sure that less garish, mega saturated colours would actually be seen as a disadvantage anyway. One of the reasons I don’t care to use AdobeRGB is I just don’t want insanely saturate cyan (for example) in my images, ever!
2) Yes - exactly! Since you can’t see the ‘extra’ range of colours that Adobe RGB provides how could you possibly edit with them in mind? You could end up with a scenario where you have a bright cyan in an image that looks duller on your screen, so you think it’s fine....but then you print it and you get this crazy saturated cyan!
Only use AdobeRGB if you have an AdobeRGB monitor.
@@alexnail Great, thanks a lot Alex!
Am I right in saying Lightroom's raw files won't be affected at the start of the process as they haven't a colour space assigned yet?( as I understood the choosing of colour spaces on camera pertained to jpegs which I don't use or am I wrong there) and will kick into effect when lightroom exports to another program so if I set in preferences it to export in srgb it will assign that colour space then at that point? I have until now used Profoto in ps then converted for the web and so proofed for each paper type when printing.. but am convinced to go to sRGB all the way as it where now but was wondering about the best way to implement it..
Correct. This was a question that we answered int he second part which I havent edited yet!
I just had a quick look at your work Glen (again - I've certianly seen your images from time to time!) I think with your shooting and editing style you will only very very rarely have images that are outside the sRGB gamut and it IS an easier process. I'm still very happy with sRGB, and made that active choice when I replaced my monitor a few months ago.
To work in sRGB I would set the preferences in Lightroom to export to sRGB so that they are sRGB in Photoshop. Photoshop will honour that colourspace, but I have warning set up so that if an image isn't in sRGB I know about it (since I want to know if I am editing colours that I can't see!)
@@alexnail Thanks Alex I look forward to part 2 in the meantime I'm changing that setting!