If you’re looking for a good e-drum kit and don’t want to spend a ton of money, our church is planning to order our shells from Muzzio drums in California, running through an edrum midi module (which Muzzio can sell to you) going into a laptop running EZDrummer or Superior Drummer. They have a 10% worship discount and you don’t need to spend over $2k on a Pearl Mimic module-a used M1 mac and the software will sound as good as edrums can get! Our total package (excluding the mac which our ministry already owns) is going to be roughly $2200.
So the decision was really based on volunteer availability and knowledge … this is why you must keep learning your craft. I get it, a lot of churches just don’t have an experienced mix engineer to ask for help. A lot of churches really are just learning as they go and ignorant to standard industry practices. All the great mix engineers have spent years understanding their tools and the science behind what they do to get better. Never stop leaning.
Define better. If it means more convenient, less personnel and requiring less talent then yes a buss mix is better. I would define better by how it sounds and a DAW mix will sound better.
Always enjoy watching. Thanks for all the great content! We had real drums in a homemade cage. Ended up getting the flagship Roland 504. They sounded ok. But we took a major leap when we added ezdrummer to them. The td50 module is an audio interface so we use that to get audio to mixer. Very happy with them. No stage volume…. Well hardly any. Cymbals still make a thud sound. But it is what it is.
On the wing you can adjust the tap point EQ which adds another EQ to the signal before it hits the prefader bus. You can also adjust the tap point to include all of the processing on the channel.
I run a Studio Live 24R bus mix on pre fader with two sub mixes on post fader. I send my band and vocal sub mixes at unity along with our room mic at +5dB (it's heavily EQd for more bass and only a slight compression of 1-2dB or so). All my main channels and sub mixes are limited around -12dB, 3dB reduction during loud moments. I then run my bus mix for recording 10dB higher with additional compression, and limiting on the bus too, again another 1-3dB reduction with threshold at -10.5dB. I try to mix loudness at-14lufs for recording. Normally hit and miss as I'm leading worship and doing sound myself at a small church with one volunteer every so often. But main thing to adjust that is changing how much volume to add on master fader, and adjusting the overall compression amount before the limiter. I also run a separate bus for spoken voice with my lectern mics and headset mics at unity gain, then limited to -10.5dB or so with a few dB reduction during normal speaking on headset, or loud speaking on lectern. I then boost this 10dB just as with the other bus. Both go into OBS via the mixers USB interface on two separate stereo inputs. The two bus mixes are mixed in there. Haven't needed to add limiters to OBS yet, but might help if I get clipping down the line. I initially had way more compression through the whole system but it didn't sound right for the room, so I brought it way back.
I can see using samples in some situations. We decided to do a drum room and I love it. As a FOH guy, i have full control. As a drummer, i can play as hard as i want and use the gear i want
We’re using a bus mix right now and it sounds fine. It’s definitely easier to manage week to week. But I’ve taken our multitrack recordings and mixed them in a DAW and the difference in quality is just staggering. I don’t think we’ll be switching to a DAW mix because we don’t have the gear nor the people to pull it off well, but the “quality ceiling” for a bus mix is quite a bit lower IMO.
I was thinking about using a DAW for live stream but it wasn’t a high priority. Our M32R and 3 PTZ camera setup is as much as the volunteers can handle and it’s working! We had the same issue with the drums causing the house mix to be uncomfortably loud and switched to a Roland Vdrum kit. We were then able to clear the stage of monitor wedges and use IEM with Midas PD48 units. This vastly improved the audio quality and levels in the house and on stage. The drums seemed a little “dead” though. Although a sub was placed next to the drums so the “feel” of the bass drum was still present, the drum sound still seemed disconnected with the instruments on stage. I placed a wedge facing the back wall of the stage and created a bus mix with the drums for a little added fill. It adds just the right amount of presence so the drums sound more natural and mix better with the acoustic instruments, such as the baby grand, acoustic guitar, and sax.
We have an x32 rack and we're sending all tracks to reaper, and it's really hard to get a good daw mix and especially hard to find volunteers. Recently we've setup midi fron x32 to control fader, mute and pan, so we sort of have a bus mix now but with separate eq and compression. We can set reaper to receive relative midi data, which allows to adjust the live mix. It's a bit easier in terms that you don't always have to tweak the live mix, just subtle adjustments and you can focus on the camera setup as well. With all that its still requires preparation at the rehearsal to check and make aure all things are right. Now watching this video I'm thinking to try out again the bus mix straight from x32, maybe it will sound as good and should be easier to namage :)
If you have real drums in a normal 300 or smaller person space you likely are not putting much in the main mix so you will need to go pre-fader to the livestream bus to have enough signal. (don’t forget to mic most of the kit) Another pro for the bus mix is less audio latency on the stream and you don’t need a dedicated computer. Good topic!
To get a better audio stream mix you need to have a separate mix with different eq comp from FOH , And DAW is the cheapest way to get if you don't have an other mixer
Having a real drum kit it is hard to fit in live stream is especially the overheads , compared to a electric drum kit will easy to put in the live stream mix
If you’re looking for a good e-drum kit and don’t want to spend a ton of money, our church is planning to order our shells from Muzzio drums in California, running through an edrum midi module (which Muzzio can sell to you) going into a laptop running EZDrummer or Superior Drummer. They have a 10% worship discount and you don’t need to spend over $2k on a Pearl Mimic module-a used M1 mac and the software will sound as good as edrums can get! Our total package (excluding the mac which our ministry already owns) is going to be roughly $2200.
Enjoyed talking shop! Appreciate the invite!
Ya man! Thanks for collabing with us.
So the decision was really based on volunteer availability and knowledge … this is why you must keep learning your craft. I get it, a lot of churches just don’t have an experienced mix engineer to ask for help. A lot of churches really are just learning as they go and ignorant to standard industry practices. All the great mix engineers have spent years understanding their tools and the science behind what they do to get better. Never stop leaning.
Correct.
Define better.
If it means more convenient, less personnel and requiring less talent then yes a buss mix is better.
I would define better by how it sounds and a DAW mix will sound better.
Always enjoy watching. Thanks for all the great content! We had real drums in a homemade cage. Ended up getting the flagship Roland 504. They sounded ok. But we took a major leap when we added ezdrummer to them. The td50 module is an audio interface so we use that to get audio to mixer. Very happy with them. No stage volume…. Well hardly any. Cymbals still make a thud sound. But it is what it is.
Thanks for the info!
On the wing you can adjust the tap point EQ which adds another EQ to the signal before it hits the prefader bus. You can also adjust the tap point to include all of the processing on the channel.
I run a Studio Live 24R bus mix on pre fader with two sub mixes on post fader. I send my band and vocal sub mixes at unity along with our room mic at +5dB (it's heavily EQd for more bass and only a slight compression of 1-2dB or so). All my main channels and sub mixes are limited around -12dB, 3dB reduction during loud moments. I then run my bus mix for recording 10dB higher with additional compression, and limiting on the bus too, again another 1-3dB reduction with threshold at -10.5dB.
I try to mix loudness at-14lufs for recording. Normally hit and miss as I'm leading worship and doing sound myself at a small church with one volunteer every so often. But main thing to adjust that is changing how much volume to add on master fader, and adjusting the overall compression amount before the limiter.
I also run a separate bus for spoken voice with my lectern mics and headset mics at unity gain, then limited to -10.5dB or so with a few dB reduction during normal speaking on headset, or loud speaking on lectern. I then boost this 10dB just as with the other bus.
Both go into OBS via the mixers USB interface on two separate stereo inputs. The two bus mixes are mixed in there. Haven't needed to add limiters to OBS yet, but might help if I get clipping down the line.
I initially had way more compression through the whole system but it didn't sound right for the room, so I brought it way back.
I can see using samples in some situations. We decided to do a drum room and I love it. As a FOH guy, i have full control. As a drummer, i can play as hard as i want and use the gear i want
We’re using a bus mix right now and it sounds fine. It’s definitely easier to manage week to week.
But I’ve taken our multitrack recordings and mixed them in a DAW and the difference in quality is just staggering.
I don’t think we’ll be switching to a DAW mix because we don’t have the gear nor the people to pull it off well, but the “quality ceiling” for a bus mix is quite a bit lower IMO.
Good point.
I was thinking about using a DAW for live stream but it wasn’t a high priority. Our M32R and 3 PTZ camera setup is as much as the volunteers can handle and it’s working!
We had the same issue with the drums causing the house mix to be uncomfortably loud and switched to a Roland Vdrum kit. We were then able to clear the stage of monitor wedges and use IEM with Midas PD48 units. This vastly improved the audio quality and levels in the house and on stage. The drums seemed a little “dead” though. Although a sub was placed next to the drums so the “feel” of the bass drum was still present, the drum sound still seemed disconnected with the instruments on stage. I placed a wedge facing the back wall of the stage and created a bus mix with the drums for a little added fill. It adds just the right amount of presence so the drums sound more natural and mix better with the acoustic instruments, such as the baby grand, acoustic guitar, and sax.
This is great! I was thinking about testing the same setup.
We have two mixers and use DAW to live and the second mixer Works as a DAW CONTROLER with that we have the best result
We have an x32 rack and we're sending all tracks to reaper, and it's really hard to get a good daw mix and especially hard to find volunteers.
Recently we've setup midi fron x32 to control fader, mute and pan, so we sort of have a bus mix now but with separate eq and compression.
We can set reaper to receive relative midi data, which allows to adjust the live mix.
It's a bit easier in terms that you don't always have to tweak the live mix, just subtle adjustments and you can focus on the camera setup as well.
With all that its still requires preparation at the rehearsal to check and make aure all things are right.
Now watching this video I'm thinking to try out again the bus mix straight from x32, maybe it will sound as good and should be easier to namage :)
This is a solid solution. Interested to hear if you would be just as happy with the bus mix.
If you have real drums in a normal 300 or smaller person space you likely are not putting much in the main mix so you will need to go pre-fader to the livestream bus to have enough signal. (don’t forget to mic most of the kit) Another pro for the bus mix is less audio latency on the stream and you don’t need a dedicated computer. Good topic!
I post fade into busses and then pre fade the busses into a mtrx for my stream. Helps balance the band with the vocals... in theory
Nice!
To get a better audio stream mix you need to have a separate mix with different eq comp from FOH , And DAW is the cheapest way to get if you don't have an other mixer
If you have the manpower and expertise on your team, then by all means, go for it!
For sure! For us right now, the pros of the Busmix outweigh the cons like that one!
True..!!💯
Having a real drum kit it is hard to fit in live stream is especially the overheads , compared to a electric drum kit will easy to put in the live stream mix