Missing 411 | Did Moonshiners Dispose of 3 Year Old Abe Ramsey?
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
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Way back in 1919, before the Great Smoky Mountains had a national park, a young boy by the name of Abe Lincoln Ramsey disappeared from his family's farm in Cosby, Tennessee. What happened next really depends on who you ask, and I have to say, this was one of the worst Missing 411 stories I've ever come across; not because it's strange, but because it's a remarkably bad account of the true story.
List of Visual Sources: docs.google.com/document/d/1o...
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0:00 - Intro and Ad
3:25 - The National Park Service
8:27 - The Story of Abe Ramsey
13:55 - What Really Happened 
Развлечения
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Also, as a slight correction, Blobfest is JULY 12-14th, so though it’s close, you still have a chance to come out! We hope to see you there!
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I LOL WHEN DAVID POLIDUS IS INTRODUCED AS A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER!"" HE DOESNT MENTION HE WAS FIRED FROM THE POLICE SERVICE FOR STEALING CASE INFORMATION! THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU HEAR HIM TALK! LOL GBYAA!!!!!!!!!!
@@TheLoreLodge .... Back in day I worked with 94 WYSP Loud & Local... How it worked the bands were played on the radio show with Tommy Cornwell.. originally hosted by Mel Toxic ...and the live show was Wednesday night at John's boardwalk bar & grill.. I was the stage manager from '99-'01... Also my late husband was the singer in the band Marker... They played the original Grape Street... The Fire.. The balcony at the a Troc... Kyper..and so on... Keep up the amazing work... Make Philly proud 🤘🏻
Shame on you! (Well, you or the YT Algorithm?) Hiding your _whole_ channel from me, for _this_ long?! But, HA! I found you, sub'ed you & now.... you'll *never* get rid of me. 😈😂😂😂
"I assume if you're still here you want the history part" me nodding furiously.
Lol, I skipped that
Me also nodding furiously 😅 i didn't learn this kind of history in school so I'm learning it here lol
This is the same reason why when they said they'd be doing more history stuff on another channel even though they're the even cooler cherry on top of an already cool, well-researched cake, I legitimately went "noo!" at my screen. Let the historian hist, guys!
Absolutely, let the guys research and and present the historical stoofs. They're good at it.
I just fast forwarded the beginning, or else I'd switch channels.
potential moonshiner murder is not what I expected to be covered this week
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
Half drunk rednecks in the woods getting trigger happy over " them revenues" would never happen. For clarification..I live in the deep South and ,"Florida man" syndrome is not Florida exclusive.
I'm glad I like these older stories because the more new ones are just like what happened and it's sometimes not even solved
@@Monkeydluffy-zj7wiThere’s plenty old unsolved ones too
But there was no reason for them to do so. This was before prohibition (that started the next year). Their work was actually legal.
A child witnessing moonshiners is like a chicken witnessing a murder in Skyrim.
Both problems have the same solution, apparently…
As someone who grew up in the hills with these men. They don’t shoot unless shot at, they run. See, you have to be caught with your hand in the cookie jar so to speak for the charges to hold up in court. So it’s better to run than stand and fight.
@@MrContemplationliterally how NASCAR was created 😂
@@MrContemplationyeah I don’t buy that moonshiners harmed a child. Not only are they not monsters but it would also bring more attention to the area, not less. Moonshiners basically just want to be left alone for the most part. Their product tastes good too, nothing like the commercial stuff. It will be clear as water but taste like the darkest whiskey. It’s great stuff when done properly. The commercial stuff tastes like straight vodka.
I’ve had a lot of moonshiners in my family, I’m from the smokies and still live here. As long as you have desperation you will have people that find ways to support themselves, even if that means shinning or cooking.
Some more info on the area now, This area is stricken with poverty and people relied on cheap booze to take them out of that reality for a while it made it themselves for some pocket money and to give out during holidays. Now days, the tourism seems to be making it worse, not better. Now instead of money not coming in, it just gets taken by the top players while the rest of us are priced out of our homes. At least when there was a lack of money in the economy the area was cheap to live in. The people that serve the tourism industry can’t feed or shelter their kids and social services are quick to tear families apart in this area when a water pump breaks or a storm blows down the shed. Need done time to buy a new pump or clean up the mess? Need a couple of days? Too bad. You lose your kids.
If anyone cares, the mayor and governor really loves the tourism. If y’all tell them they’re doing a crap job, something might change. It would have to be a lot of people threatening to boycott the state but I’m sure after a while something would change. We are having a drug crisis now because of the same reason shining took off. People can’t support themselves.
As the residential Michigander here, it's pronounced Mack-i-naw. I'll give you a pass on this one 😅
I screamed in my head it’s Mackinaw
Speaking of, I have to say it wrong in my head to spell it right. Btw fabulous desserts to be had in Mackinac city, particularly fudge and ice cream, and a 3rd great grandfather of mine was an oldest surviving resident of the Island, and played fiddle at the dances into his 70s.
Came to the comments for this.
Physically winced when I heard the pronunciation lol
Thanx for simply explaining why I knew I had just heard something 'wrong', without knowing exactly what I had heard that _was_ 'wrong'. Nice to learn a little something now and then!
"We have plenty of cases to cover, do not make more" That was really funny
Here in WNC, the question “have you or do you drink moonshine more than once a year” was legitimately used by physicians and practitioners to determine whether a patient may be a “problem drinker” or not. The logic being that no one would drink moonshine without their primary goal being intoxication. 😂
it also lets us know to check other things like are you going blind,do you have heart disease,do you have a gastric issue,do you have hepatitis
Lol as if people drink alcohol for any other reason
@@BlacksmithBets Well, as a matter of fact, they do. There are ports, whiskey's and cognacs chosen to go with cigars for optimal flavour profile. Same goes with wines and food items. I was at a wine tasting once that paired wines with chocolates. Worked better than I thought.
As close as 50 yrs ago the local sheriff or constable would take away moonshine from the distillers and donate/give small amounts to the the older folks, as moonshine was also considered an old time folk remedy or medicinal.
Moonshine has led me to several alcohol induced mistakes. Alcoholism is a bitch, but there's nothing I can do about it 😂.
It doesn't matter, really, but Aidan: rawboned (or raw-boned, or raw bone) is a descriptive word(s) meaning skinny, gaunt, or scrawny. So it's possible the source really did mean to type that about the dog.
[Edited for clarity]
Thank you! I was hoping someone else would notice that.
Thank you! I've also seen that expression, usually as a less than flattering description ("a raw-boned woman") of a hard working, hard luck, hard done by denizen of the backwoods. It seemed entirely appropriate to location even if I've never heard a dog referred to that way. Did the dog have any other descriptors, to determine breed? Idr.
@cleanserene6330 not that I can recall. I can imagine, being from a similar region myself, it was probably a mutt. I doubt they had a purebred anything. Not to say it's impossible. I just doubt it. So I could see the dog simply being described as scraggly, etc.
@@cleanserene6330 Yeah, I don't think that source was trying to identify a BREED of dog, just describe appearance.
The ol’ saying goes
“Once two strangers climbed ol' Rocky Top
Lookin' for a moonshine still
Strangers ain't come down from Rocky Top
Reckon they never will”
Go Vols
Roll tide
How bout them Dawgs!!!
As a Tennessean I believe it's healthy for outsiders to be reminded of this verse from time to time.😊
Corn won't grow at all on Rocky Top
Dirt's too rocky by far
That's why all the folks on Rocky Top
Get their corn from a jar
Rocky Top Tennessee... Heck yeah. A favorite song as,well as favorite place to visit. Rock on.
RUclips randomly recommended a killdozer video to me about an hour ago, and now I am subscribed and waiting for a premiere. Good stuff!
The videos about The Dyatlov Pass & MH370 are my personal favourites if you plan on binging 👍
@@Bert-lw1otoh, I am! I am 😊
If you like that you should check out their Donner party and boy in the box some of their best IMO the Donner party one was like the killdozer one just full of information that no one else covered and it comes straight from the diaries of the people in the Donner party
welcome! literally go into the videos section close your eyes and click you can't go wrong with this channel it's all amazing content. When I found this channel, I binged all the videos and now I'm all caught up and sadly have to wait for new stuff. Enjoy though!
Rawboned in refernece to the dog means it was bony, not well-fed
I like this episode because its able to deconstruct the narrative and reveal that the traditional story is just an old wives tale
David wants there to be more to a story than there actually is. Because most of the time the boring non spooky true doesn’t get the attention that something strange does
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference."
Short answer: Probably not.
Longer answer: Moonshiners, even in the early days of the practice, were rather well known in their local communities. To the point that everyone and their brother in the community would know who was the moonshiners. Meaning that some rando kid wandering into a moonshiner's still, even if it's from someone outside of the community, wouldn't warrant a murder. What point would there be, from the moonshiner's perspective, of drawing even more attention to the surrounding area?
Come to say much the same. Anyone thinking moonshining is some clandestine programming had obviously never been in the area one cooking. And as you said, the thought a three year old stumbling onto a shine operation and being murdered for it verges on absurd.
Moonshine and moonshine distilling equipment? I believe you mean he sold Moonshine and Moonshine Accessories
It's always refreshing to find a channel that doesn't thrive on sensationalism. Thanks for continuing to demystify and "de-bigfootize" these cases. I never miss an episode.
Two things, It struck me as weird that a 3 year old would go off looking for the dog after it hadn't returned for a while, toddlers seem to live more in the moment so chasing it as it ran would make sense but i don't think they have the capacity yet to say "hmm the dog has been missing a while I should go find him." However the fact that he was following his siblings makes alot of sense in the regard. Anyway second thing please tell me we're getting"Bigfussy" shirts
Live on the same Reservation as Sully’s Hill, ND, Now known as White Horse Hill. There’s a lot of ongoing missing person cases in our community that I think would interest you. Your indigenous history sections surprised me, when I first started watching your channel. Have been an avid viewer for months, never left a comment. Thank you for keeping up you and your team’s amazing work.
Moon shine mixed with powdered country time lemonade is a good way to drink some shine ✨we call it shineade
Juice a watermelon and mix the juice half and half with some good white shine
When I was illegally working in a liquor store at 15, I knew a guy who made artisinal moonshine.
I'm a winemaker, I know heaps of guys who make it. Some are more "artisanal" than others, however 😂
In Kentucky. It’s all over the place here.
That opening line is gold.
Some thoughts on cause of death, least important aspect of the case. I'm happy to provide citations if anyone wants to go down the spider/snake/poison rabbit hole after me.
There aren't really spider species with medically significant venom in that area-particularly not ones which are inclined to bite.
What does track for cause of death would be a snake bite, of which there are several very well camouflaged and quite defensive species hanging out. Some of those species share characteristics and behavior with snake species that are safe (enough) to bother.
There are plenty of attractive looking plants and fungi which show up in the smokies as well, including some species which are safe to eat cooked but not raw-a differentiation a hungry toddler might not make on his own.
(This has been your weekly engagement comment by me, brought to you by creepy crawly enjoyers against spider slander.)
P.s. I would love to see RUclipsr KyleHatesHiking on the podcast. He does similar videos, but focused on missing, uh, hikers.
@CandiceLemonShahe besmirches the names of those who were lost on the trails. Better if he stays off. rks
@williamraleigh7546 How does he besmirch their names?
Black widows have a very dangerous bite that is very toxic to humans, especially children. Their toxin can cause seizures in children which usually occur just before death. Since he was only 3, a black widow bite could have caused his death especially since he was in a hollow log which is a favorite living place for black widows as well as snakes.
The “my shot killed him” thing is psychologically. It’s a guilty thing, not a logic one.
I was interested in Paulides' material, but it didn't take too long to see his subtext and pick up on how he was coloring his stories to fit his conclusions. So he's helpful for some of the research that he's done, but you have to take it with a grain of salt.
"We have plenty of cases to cover, do not make more" 😂🤣
As a Michigander hearing mackinack hurts.
So, how is pronounced? I also experience pain as an Oregonian with a silent e when certain words are mispronounced.
@@CodyHomes Macinaw (as in gnaw)
As a Wisconsinite, i cringed as soon as I heard that.
As a Texan who's been to Mackinac Island Island a couple of times I cringed too. Lol.
We watched another guy. Nukes Top 5 and swear he screws names up on purpose so people like us come to the comments and comment. Lol
Me too I can't stop cringing over it😅
Snake is more likely than spider imo.
Great video
Was going to say Timber Rattler or Copperhead more likely. It could also explain the dogs behavior...the dog might have also gotten bit.
"The toddler put on his coat, leaving around three." So, a toddler just walks out of the house, like he is a college kid, and adults don't know.
OK. .....Neglect is so often behind the missing kids cases.
That pronunciation of Mackinac. It is much closer to Mack-in-awe
It is, my dad is from Michigan and I visited my grandmother there as a young child.
You ought to write your own book on these disappearances with the info you discovered. Poor little Abe. 😢
Every article I've read and video I have watched on Trenny mentioned Simpson, even going so far as to say that Trenny's comb, that she carried everywhere, was found in his car. Also, I found out that star sapphire ring and matching pendant were gifts (from her parents?) and were found to be in the possession of a female classmate who never returned them to her parents. Trenny's case has left me completely confused by the contradictory information to the point that now I am wondering if she even existed at all.
Even if the older stories have little evidence or documentation it’s still fun to hear them deconstructed
The fr*nch naming conventions strike back in today's episode's Michigan lore mention
Greeting from Grand Ledge, MI. The Grand River is down the hill from my house. We pronounce the county seat as "Shar LOT," not the more Southern "SHAW lut."
greetings from lansing michigan, not far from grand ledge- i always love telling ppl about the small town of pompeii, which is unfortunately pronounced locally as "pompy-eye"
Greetings from Zeeland Michigan. What’s up? All the old Dutch people in Michigan live around here.
got a chuckle out of that as a yooper
The collective Michigander eye twitch at "Mack-in-ack"...
5:06 pronounced mack-in-aw. Sincerely, somebody from Michigan. (The city is spelled correctly, idk what happened when they named the island)
Took the Feds six years to find Eric rudolf
America's hide and seek champion
lol
Easy now to find him in ADX Florence 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Feds didn't catch him. Local cop did.
@@gern7535I was going to say the same thing, and that was totally on accident.
I grew up in the Smokies so far back in the woods we didn't get the Saturday Night Grand Ole Opry until Tuesday morning. Your break down was great with the exception of the spider bite. Most likely a snake bite. March sees snakes out sunning themselves during the day and will find a warm spot(hollow log) in the evening and night. In my 70 years in these hills I've never seen a spider of any kind that could kill even a small rodent much less a healthy 3 year old. Keep up the good work, I really enjoy your vids.
Aiden: please don't make more cases
Me, already covered in barbecue sauce and lounging in front of a bear den: oh, *now* you say something?
When you start out liking 411, but then slowly turn into it's archenemy. Best villain origin story ever.
I'm with you on DP & going from impressed to suspect 🤔
B-But muh Bigfoot!
*-David Paulides, probably*
I participated in a field research class in the Cosby area of Tennessee so from an ecology perspective I can offer a bit of context. Venomous spiders in this region are way more rare than people think-- especially in March. March can get very cold, and most cold-blooded animals in this climate overwinter one way or another. Spiders seek warmth in places like sheds so you're much more likely to face them on a homestead than out in the wilderness at this time. There is the case for venomous snakes like diamond backs, but they are likewise going to brumate unless its an especially warm March. They recommend inexperienced hikers of the smokies come at latest mid May because that is when venomous snakes start to emerge from brumation. That isn't to say spiders and snakes don't exist in March they most definitely do, but they're going to be sluggish. A noisy three year old is not likely to catch any of these animals by surprise nor are they likely to capture the animal in much a situation where biting is its first response. Its still very possible, especially since he was found in a log where these critters might be hiding. But losing little Abe to exposure is significantly more likely.
You should name your line of Bunker Branding "Debunker Branding"
I fail to believe moonshiners would hurt a 3year old local boy. The dog under the porch leads me to believe a animal is responsible for this disappearance
@timfaulkner- Me too. Especially since a 3 yr old can't give evidence even if he recognized what he saw and the Feds weren't really involved in the search. It's highly likely that most of the locals benefited, in one way or another, from the moonshine trade and would likely just tell the boy to hush if he did say anything. No need for murder.
congrats yall finally got to 500k subs sooo happy for u guys ....keep up the awesome work
I found out after my dad's funeral that grandpa had been a moonshiner, his grandfather before that, and that some of my aunts, uncles, and cousins took up the family hobby. Seems like maybe I missed out on a grand tradition.
Stock car racing began with running moonshine. 😂.
Thank you very much for all the hard work you do! Keep goin man.
As a local to the area I can say this… contact the Sevier and/or Cocke county library. Sevier county’s has a lot of online resources and are always willing to help. Try the Mountain Press, Sevier county’s newspaper or the Knoxville News Sentinel which is the largest in the area and based out of Knox county. The Knox county library may have papers older than the sentinel.
Lastly, the area of Cosby could swallow half the world today and people would never be found. Back then it would be far worse, but the people, even kids, would have been FAR more capable than 99.9% of people are today when it comes to survival and navigating the land.
Cosby native here! Crazy to see our little town on your page!!
Great work, as always, gentlemen!
Very interesting that this video has some sources listed and not a lot of older videos.
Pro tip: if you want authentic moonshine, don't buy the stuff in mason jars at the liquor store, buy everclear.
Wrong but to each their own real moonshine taste way better than store bought liquor depending on who makes it Even if they slap the name moonshine on it don't make it moonshine and ever clear is why to strong of a proof for normal drinkers most people like their shine around 100proof of 50%abv and once you drink real and good moonshine you won't bother wasting money on gov liquor that kills more people then real moonshine
🤣🤣🤣🤣
If you want authentic moon shine buy a moonshine still.
Everclear.🙄🤯
@@BillMcGirr correct
@@BillMcGirrever clear is technically legal "money liquor". (Contradictory to the newer trend of specialty runs (frog juice, apple pie, ECT) making the the shiner more money.
"Money liquor" is traditionally high proof shine made out of the cheapest ingredients (corn and grain). The proof is the selling point, and it's typically a bulk run type of scenario.
90 percent of the shine that you will run across on the black market is going to be this bulk run stuff, and it's the same thing as ever clear.
The "Moonshiners" TV show has skewed the public perception of what is actually going on.
Putting parks under the jurisdiction of the Department of Agriculture doesn’t make much sense today.
But, back then when there were so few few parks, it probably prevented duplication of early environmental studies, such as hydrology, soil composition and other analyses.
We're currently staying in The Cairngorms National Park in Scotland, and I've been really enjoying listening to these videos while getting ready/winding down for the day. Glad I came across the channel! 😄
Hope you’re enjoying it! The cairngorms I believe are also originally part of the same mountain complex that the appalchians were before continental shift! We actually have some similar stories in areas like the Cairngorms (I think the grey man of macdui specifically in the cairngorms)
@@charissimpson235 Ah yeah, the Great Grey Man! We're hoping to get up Ben Macdui, if the weather allows 😄
Very interesting as always gentlemen. Please continue these as the information you share is so important. Was not expecting to hear a possible relative mentioned - maternal great grandmother was named Christie and originally from Appalachian area. Lol. Thanks again.
Your research and breakdown is awesome. Dig the music too. 👍
I personally liked the format. I have only recently discovered your channel and find your story telling extremely fascinating. you do an amazing job breaking down each case and your attention to detail is spot on. FYI going into the "history lessons" is one of the best parts of your story telling.
Glad to see the history segment return
I feel like this format - giving the David Paulides (sp?) version of the story before going and dissecting it - actually suits the topic quite well. It starts with how the story was presented as a Missing 411 case, what got it presented in that way, then discusses whether it does or does not truly belong
You'd like Zealous Beast as well. That's exactly what he does.
@@deerichardz Thanks for the recommendation!
Thank you for your research. I’m always skeptical when someone repeats a Paulides story. He seems to omit a lot of information in his story telling.
My great grandpa and some of his friends moonshined a few summers up in the Sioux City area. They decided it was too much work after like the fourth summer and quit.
First off, shiners are mostly good people and wouldn't kill a small child for just seeing anything. They'd run or discredit the kid as being just a child. Mighty reach here internet.
Love y'all's work! It is exciting to see how the channel has grown over the years.
Love today's format!
Thank you for the great content!
Raw boned is a phrase meaning gaunt
I agree with you about Paulides, he doesn't invent evidence but he frequently hyperfocuses on specific points which he is clearly using to misdirect readers. That's as good as lying, in my book. The way he interfered with the DeOrr Kunz case is especially evil.
Honestly, I was wondering where the history segments of the videos had gone - I'm very glad they have made a triumphant return!
Keep up the great work ✌🏻... Philly love
Good coverage on this story; it's not one that I've heard before. Thank you! I also enjoyed the history section.
Great video guys, keep up the hard work!
Wait you said June 14th and then July😂
I feel like David probably vets his sources when they don't say anything that helps fit his narrative and then let's it slide when sketchy sources do say things to fit his narrative.
He seems like that kind of dude.
Anyways, great video as always. ❤
Loving your content brother.
I love you and these videos! Can’t wait for the merch. Im an amateur research sleuth myself and spend my days researching unsolved murders. It’s my passion :) and these videos are like crack for me ha ha
love when you rip apart bad research! so relieved to have the history section back! so sad for Abe
I find the idea of moonshiner's firing at a sound very strange. Know your target and dont waste a shot
I absolutely love the history segment!
...In all your videos, not just this one.
What?! David Paulides adding or leaving out information nooooooooooo you must me mistaken 🤣🤣
I don’t really watch you anymore but congrats on 500k! Insane.
Finally..was missing the lore from lore lodgr👏👏👏
“Them thar hills” was outta pocket
I have come to really look forward to new Lore Lodge videos. I'm tired of rewatching all the old one 😂
This has to be one of the best lore lodge intros LOL
Underrated story channel
i did not know roosevelt went *that* crazy with the national parks damn
I did, in fact, want to see the history segment
16:50 That sounds like the first day of regular deer season in Pennsylvania.
Mak-ah-naw
Ojibwe meaning Great Turtle. Beautiful place. I'd consider it the top 50 must travel destinations in The United States
Thank you so much for this. As soon as he said that I paused and had to see if anyone else had corrected the pronunciation yet.
@@parallellynx7296 I didn't even check I paused the video the second he said it and wrote the comment
I heard him say it and my ears bled a little. Lol.
Shhh, don't tell people to visit. Too many tourists lol
@@SessaVdid not experience that myself and it's quite a deliberate journey to make so no real risk of that, also I am sure many businesses rely on visitors. Come visit!
I’m always here for the history.
Aden don't apologize for the slightly different vid just keep cooking my dude
Interesting. I will have to have our team look into this case.
My library finally got me a copy of Things Aren’t Right by Tony Wright. I’m so excited to reed it.
the history segment is basically why i watch
David P and various other commentators should really look at applying Occam's Razor concept.
A guy in Gatlinburg looked just like you this week!!!
Oh wow didn’t expect the story to be about Tennessee, I had my message typed before you started.
Not me trying to figure out how to get to PA from WI to get a t-shirt and bring you chocolate milk 🥴🤣 Great video! I remember my first run-in with moonshine when I went to college in Southern Illinois. Tasted like how I imagine ethanol tastes.
Well, he could have gotten stuck in the log and suffocated or a snake could have bitten him. Fallen logs, hollow or otherwise, are places that snakes like to congregate around.
I don't believe that Lore Daddy Attis really hates David Paulidis all that much. I feel like you just gets frustrated that he did a little bit of digging but then didn't verify what he dug up and is trying to show that with a little bit of extra time you can verify what could be truth and what could be false claims
Hey I was wondering if you've ever heard of the dark entry forest in Connecticut? I'd love to see you do a video on that and see what kind of research you're able to find!
I'm spending the weekend in the Appalachians and this isn't what i wanted to hear