Missing 411: Bobby Bizup | The Camp St. Malo Mystery
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- In 1958, 10 year old Bobby Bizup of Denver, Colorado vanished while fishing at Camp St. Malo...or so the counselors said. Contradictory stories, unlikely geography, and later offenses by staff beg the quiestion: what truly happened to Bobby Bizup on August 15th, 1958? How did a young deaf boy's fifth trip to a beloved Catholic boys' camp become a Missing 411 case? Welcome back to The Lore Lodge...
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0:00 - Intro and Background
4:21 - Bobby Bizup and Camp St. Malo
6:33 - Gone Fishin'
8:50 - Searching the Rockies
15:11 - All That Remains
20:16 - Old Wounds
28:50 - The Skull's Questions 
Развлечения
So a deaf boy, that was difficult to understand through verbal communication, was around several child abusers and then disappeared. I can't prove that it was foul play, but it certainly looks like that to me.
Exactly my thought like a bunch of wanna be priests around little boys just sounds like a bad idea. Also Catholic specifically. Like I can’t prove shit but it’s just mad fucking sus considering everything
@Footba11Fan1234 lots of religions have a long history of child abuse, not just the Catholics.
@@FootbaFan-pr8sl priests can only be catholic lol. kids left around a bunch of public school teachers would be in just as much danger, positions of trust and authority over children always attract these subhumans
So a part of my training for the summer camp and afterschool program I work for has us do mandated reporter training and the fact that Bobby was specifically described as seeming hurt and embarrassed sounds like the poor boy had just been abused by someone at the camp. As other commenters have described, feelings of shame and guilt are common signs that a child is being sexually abused
Kinda does, for sure.
Honestly aliens or Bigfoot would have been less depressing than institutional abuse of children….
@frankfkling304 honey you’re a victim?? And yeah, there’s more than one case of institutional abuse. It’s kinda why people don’t trust the church. Maybe go to therapy before you go off about social media about the abuse you’ve been through and how it wasn’t a big deal because it was and you’re in denial. That’s not healthy.
@Frank F Kling sounds like you have a lot of therapy to go through
Bruh the priest literally gave away Bobby's skull 💀 he was definitely killed or covered up by the church
A Bigfoot took him.this is a old story in the bf community.
@Frank F Kling bruh, one of the priests IN THIS CASE ALONE had 70 VICTIMS. 70. INDIVIDUAL. CASES. OF. CHILD ABUSE.
Never trust a camp that doesn't let parents or guardians be around their kids.
10:40 No amount of water is too little to drown in. Where I live 100% of child drownings are unsupervised and many happen in under a foot of water and as little as an inch. 75% are in lakes and rivers.
Also drowning incidents across all ages are still majority male at about 80%
Never trust a camp for young boys run by Catholic priests
@@totower9597 Yes, but if a 10 year old drowns in a foot of water, the body will be easy to find. Also, if a 10 year old, not a baby or toddler, drowns in a very shallow body of water, something else happened. Either they slipped and hit their head, someone held them under the water, or some very unusual accident.
@@brandyparks7531 The kid probably either slipped or just had a seizure. Neither of those seems unlikely to me.
@@brandyparks7531 I'm not claiming this is how he died, I don't believe he drowned but I'm skeptical of anyone who would easily write off any source of water.
I know first hand how difficult it is to find someone even if you knew they were in the water and the area.
I got such a feeling of dread when you said that all the witnesses agreed Bobby seemed upset, angry and embarrassed. Clearly one of the counsellors did something terrible to him. It seems that maybe he deliberately hid in the mountains and evaded the search teams because dying from exposure seemed like a better option than being abused again or having to face telling somebody what happened. Poor little kid
The truly sad part is that if the little one had made it out of there alive and told his story, there is a damn good possibility that no one would have believed him. Hear about it all the time, from that era all the way through today. Too make it worse is his disabilities would have been used against him in a heartbeat as a "well, he's not ALL there so he is making it up" excuse.
Agreed
He was murdered. He didn’t just run off.
@@vict4451 My thoughts exactly! No one would have believed him. Back then people always believed a priest or authority figure in the church cause the opinion was they could do no wrong. Sickening!
@@maryellenblount6376 back then? Try today. A man of the cloth always gets the benefit of the doubt.
It sounds like he was molested or was almost molested and they chased after him and silenced him. It’s so heartbreaking to know you trust your child with adults and to find out you trusted them with monsters. Poor Bobby. I hope his little soul is at rest.
Did you really say " they chased after him and SILENCED him"? I mean...hmmmm... am I the only one who caught that? 😉🤭
But ya no, good theory.... I think you are on to something for sure. 👍
Yeah, yeah THAT'S what happened🙄
Natives killed him
@@markp4967 Why would natives kill a child????
@@markp4967 racist much? Where are these “natives”? No. An admitted pedophile killed him
It is an interesting theory and possible, but I didn't get any part of the story where they might have chased after him and killed him. They may have, but I just didn't see that in the story.
As a veteran camp counselor (10+ summers, many camps) I totally understand you get weird trinkets and things from your summers like friendship bracelets, buttons, a poorly made dream catcher, or just a random craft project a camper gives you but HELLO A GOD DAMN SKULL OF A CHILD as a camp keep sake?! There’s something suuuper messed up here- I think the abuse and coverup is the most logical event to Bobby’s disappearance. I feel so bad for Bobby’s family.
I would think they have died if they were adults on the fifties.
I assume several of the camp employees murdered him so he couldn't tell the parent about sexual abuse and hid his remains in the building. Next year the leader carried the bones up the mountain, but kept the skull so in case this is investigated as a murder, he can plant it in or near a home of some of the people who were there and shift the blame for a murder to that person and away from him.
Yeah, that's crazy. It's weird that you hear about all of these religious camps being associated with abuse. (Just weird to me)
I don't have a ton of experience, but I did go to Episcopal summer camp for two years, and nothing like that ever happened. I feel like an abusive councilor would have been called out pretty quickly.
IDK, it obviously happens. That's pretty sad.
And him being their only child with hearing challenges, his death was so final for them, no-one else to be strong for. I believe what goes around comes around and that the man responsible for bobbies murder and horror bestowed on bobbies loved ones has or is having his comeback😢
So the Dr. never heard of the camp boy? He held on to a child's skull w/o calling police?
The camp director has a child's skull?
WTF??!?!
Was it Bobby's skull?
Very busy vid.
Mostly heresay.
Wtf do the Indians have to do with it?
D-. Try harder next vid.
Sometimes, as Robert E Keller said, “The real monsters are humans without conscience...”
💯👍🏻
Thats the definition of a pychopath or sociopath.
You are correct sir!
Just commenting to say that I appreciate the X Files reference
Yuuuuup
I think all 3 seminarians were involved in the coverup of abuse, specifically of Bobby, and that's how his body got where it was: because they all helped. They took his skull and I'm betting when accusations began flying, they knew they couldn't keep it and they didn't trust each other, so it was given to the doctor. A doctor with a skull wouldn't raise too many eyebrows, and the priest would still know his trophy was out there. So incredibly sick.
Agreed.
It's interesting that cops haven't been asking how and why the doctor had the skull and why the doctor didn't hand it over to the police.
If I had to guess I’d say they kept the skull for occult purposes. That poor boy :(
The entire camp organization and the Catholic church are covering it up *allegedly*
@@goosegirl941 I completely agree with you. I wouldn’t be surprised that in addition to the physical sexual abuse, that some of these priests, camp officials, and workers, were in fact practicing occultic rituals which of course involves young boys. Whatever the case might’ve been, one thing is for sure that the camp officials were doing Terrible things to some of the children there and were covering up their tracks. Let’s be real, this isn’t the first time we’ve heard this type of thing from the Catholic Church/ community.
The theory of Bobby not wanting to be found certainly has different implications if he was assaulted before running away. It makes sense to me if that was the case why he’d try to avoid capture, imagine being attacked, escaping and then a bunch of the attacker’s friends start searching for you. I know there is no way in hell I’d would want to hand myself over to a bunch of monsters or want to go back to the camp! I personally don’t think it was murder because why go to that trouble? The sad reality is sexual assault survivors have a hard time getting people to believe them now let alone in the 50s even if he did try to tell someone, nothing would likely come of it and that’s assuming he would even tell someone at all. It’s also an awful reality that lots of victims don’t tell anyone because of the embarrassment and stigma surrounding assault. My guess is the poor kid succumbed to exposure while hiding in the mountains.
In regards to the skull being kept, I believe it was a poor attempt by Richard to keep the remains the seminaries found from being identified without really understanding how remains were identified. It’s possible he thought that the dental records were the only way and also, if you recall, Bobby had lost several baby teeth on the trip and had sent a letter to his parents about it so he may have thought that would be the biggest give away.
Rest easy Bobby, you deserved better.
100%
Especially as a boy raised to revere people who are or training to become priests, the feeling of betrayal and the sheer terror that would engender, the feeling of not being safe with people who are supposed to be the safest people on Earth would really mess up his head. No doubt he would have been terrified and horrified and wouldn't have been able to bring himself to return, and the fact that he might rather have expired on that mountainside of starvation and exposure than go back to place where he had been so betrayed is very depressing to think of. Especially if he could see the camp the entire time and was just too scared to come back.
i honestly feel like he might've been assaulted and tried to find help? and they just ended up doing it all together possibly? where as he ran on and they probably went out to find him this how everything was messed up and in weird places
Not murder and how did the guy end up with the skull, to give it to someone else many years later? I can't even imagine what that poor child went through during the last hours of his life.
Bobby was a perfect victim. Until it was time to go back to hid parents there was no way for anyone to even understand his accusations. Maybe he did not even die until much later, if his abusers kept him and they just moved his body to the location much later. Maybe the removed skull was a poor attempt to conceal the identity or a trophy kept by the abuser.
Since known sexual abusers are involved it is probably clear what happened to that poor boy.
In a way Bobby got his wish. He would never leave the camp.
That poor kid. I can't say what I would do here. Only solace is that they will answer to God!
Damn, this is just a depressing one. A deaf child who was clearly abused who died as a result whose abusers never helped his family find peace and none of which were held responsible for their crime.
The years where people did whatever they want and nothing happens, those years were full of innocence but sadly a lot of damned wolves out there.
I was living in Texas when the sexual abuse was uncovered. We were Catholic at the time and the catholic schools in town had children pulled from them. The saddest thing about all this was that the Catholic Church KNEW it was happening and the priests were just sent to a different church or different dioceses out of the area. So many parents were mad and wanted justice but it was years later that something (tho not much) was done. We knew a young priest that was transferred, and I had friends that left the catholic boys high school and they knew what was happening. I feel for this boys parents and family members. To know your child was possibly killed by a monster is horrible.
Are you talking about the 2018 abuse-of-seminarians revelations, or the 2019 local Colorado school revelations? Was the school-pulling a reaction to the 2019 Colorado stuff or the wider 2018 scandal?
@@AbsurdScandal things started happening about this and a lot of stuff came out locally in 1968. At that time the catholic high-schools lost students over it. Things didn't become known nationally about what happened in the schools until much later. Boys came out out and told what had happened to them. I don't remember the year it all came to a head but that was when the cc was made to acknowledge what happened. There has always been some kind of scandal in the church. If you research it you will find that complaints started a long time ago. But it only became public later.
More frightening is the fact that statistical research has shown that the Catholic Church has no greater rates of molestation than any other religion or denomination in the U.S. The public school system's abuse rate is supposed to be 100X worse than the Catholic problem. That doesn't even count how many kids are abused by their own family members. The numbers must be horrendous.
Abuse of children is still happening all around us. Lots of sick and strange folks out there who get away with this kind of stuff. Sad story.
And yet people continue to give billions of dollars in tithes to the church. Literally financing pedophiles. And people have the nerve to ask why I'm not a Christian. Guess it's because I have morals, ethics and a conscience.
One of the few videos I had to stop. Abuse hits too close to home for me at the moment, I'm barely getting sober for the first time as a 30 year old man and all the numbed feelings are coming back waaaaay too hard
Edit:thank you all for the kind words, I can't tell you how seriously helpful they were to me. I don't have any friends, the ones I did have either OD'd or are still using and anytime I had a seriously down day, like magic I'd get a notification from YT of one of you guys saying kind words. I feel like I've finally cleared the hump of pain and now I can be a true father to my son and be a good son for my mother. Seriously, I don't know any of you guys but you've helped me in ways that words truly can't describe. Thank you.
You're not alone. Hang in there.
That you’re able to recognise your limits shows that you’re healing. Be safe.
One day at a time. I hope you have a good group of people to help guide and support you. You're worth the effort ❤
Congrats on your sobriety. It isn’t easy, but it does get easier.
You'll do fine buddy. Keep your head up. Sobriety is a journey not a race
Bobby ran out of the lodge after possibly being assaulted, is possibly chased or confronted later, maybe Bobby states he is going to turn perp in or something, is murdered to cover up the assault(Or fight happens and Bobby was unintentionally killed, is pushed, falls and hits head... unknown really). You said a few counselors stayed after the camp closed to "wait to see if Bobby showed back up" correct? That would be a perfect time to dispose of the body.
Sounds like a solid Catholic response
@Balrog 1999 I don't understand. Could you explain what you are implying?
@@brandonciotti6014 The Catholic church covers for their monsters. Hiding the murder of an assaulted little boy tracks as something they would do.
@@brandonciotti6014 The Catholic Church has a bit of a history covering up child sex scandals so that’s what Balrog 1999 is implying.
@@mirandagoldstine8548 Let balrog speak for himself.
As soon as you said his parents were trying to make it clear that Bobby wouldn't be in trouble if he came home, I started to wonder if this was an abuse case.
Back in the day, a lot of kids in that sort of situation would think it was their fault, or they had done something wrong.
Abuse is still rampant to this day! Most states allow for children to be punished by hitting them! What child wouldn’t run away from that?
Never trust a camp ran by Catholic priests in the 60s
I don’t think they mean that type of abuse.😬
The catholic church has a history….
Uhm.. This is still the reality.. If not even worse these days..
I'm thinking they probably meant that he wouldn't be in trouble for 'running away'.
Appreciate that you talked about the background of the Native tribes who originally lived on the Colorado area. Poor Bobby. May he rest in peace. I have a hearing impaired grandson and this is one of my deepest fears because these kids (honestly all kids ) are so vulnerable if adults don't understand how to communicate with them or the adults around them aren't trustworthy.
But his story explains how they aren't really "natives". They were changing locations and conquering land from each other.
@@steveescher1554shut up, dude.
This viewer concurs. The information you presented about the Native tribes was quite interesting. Thank you.
@@steveescher1554 still natives of america, goofy.
It's not really all that pertinent to the case. It just seems like virtual signaling & pandering to me.
I have no doubt in my mind that someone who was supposed to be caring for him is responsible for his death. No kid walks into the mountains cause they're upset. Poor sweet boy didn't deserve to die in a place he was supposed to be safe. RIP Bobby.
I worked as a therapist with sexually abused children for years. My staff and I began to wonder how common it was for predators to murder their victims to prevent the children from telling about the abuse. These perpetrators have very little regard for children . They are only thinking about their own desires.
Thanks for doing that. It’d destroy me.
And I bet they come in all flavors,colors,and Religion!!!
It's generally not very common except in certain scenarios. (Like this one where there's more reason for someone to die inexplicably.) Killing the kid generally causes way more problems than just telling them to be quiet, even if they don't stay quiet.
They might've been able to do this here because they're out in the forest with wild animals outside camp and for the most part, the only immediate power they'd answer to is themselves, not parents, police, or just people walking down the street to get to work. But doing this in a city, where the majority of child abuse takes place just based of raw population density, it's much more difficult to pull off killing them and coming up with a believable cover story and making sure no one sees you. It can be done, but it's much harder. Killing the kid is almost a guarantee that parents and students at school are going to notice someone missing whereas telling them to be quiet means the kids goes home and if they don't tell anyone, for the most part, no one is any wiser. Or, if they are, they may not pry. They may notice a change in someone's behavior, but if the kid doesn't tell anyone, not much can be done.
Also important to remember that, despite the priest stereotype, public school teachers are actually the number one non-familial abusers of children by a country mile. Another situation where it's less punishing to tell them to shut up (even if they dont) than it is to kill them. Even if you get caught, you'll likely get a lighter prison sentence, though I've even seen some get deferred sentences so they don't even end up with any time. They just get probation and move to another school district. But that's not the case when you're going around killing people.
"PDFs" are also usually among the least violent demographic of major criminals outside of the actual seggs crime. They're less likely to shoot people, get in bar fights, steal, and are many times not aggressive compared to someone like a non "PDF" wife beater or someone who regularly gets into bar fights and such. Granted, there are plenty of PDFs who do engage in these things. But there's also a lot who don't, which is why the numbers even out.
So while it's ture they may not have much regard for children, that doesn't mean they're just going to kill them because it brings a lot more attention to the kid and consequently, the person who did the thing to the kid.
Ok so this one is pretty close to home for me, both figuratively and literally. My parents both used to work at the Lane Guest Ranch, literally down the road from St Malo. They got married at the St. Catherine's Chapel, which is (I believe) on the same property. This is an incredibly remote part of the state, where the only things you'll likely see are deer, elk, and maybe a bear (save for the weird mountain folk, it's a long story). This area is not at all a place I would explore alone, even as an experienced outdoorsman. Thanks for telling another Colorado story, people don't talk about our history much!
Hang on...I wanna know the weird mountain folk story...
@@TheLoreLodge I can't confirm any of this information because it happened back in the 60s, but here goes. So I worked on a ranch owned by some old guy who had been in the area for ages. One place he worked went all the way up to the continental divide. He was riding his horse up there, just checking fence, and came across a large unoccupied campsite. He thought it was weird, but kept going. A few weeks later he's riding through again and this time there's signs of people around.
This is private property, very far from the road, so he goes and tells the boss. They gather up a few people to get these people out of there, and when they arrive theres like 25 "dirty f***ing hippies." Many are high out of their minds, but the ones that aren't are incredibly confrontational
Here's the part I'm most suspicious of. He claimed that they were wearing necklaces with human bones and teeth. The cowboys had guns, so they ran the hippies out, some by force. So that's that story.
Also there are some people who just want to live in the mountains, no big deal. But some of them are really weird. A friend of mine has a neighbor who comes out of his trailer every night to just scream.
All in all, weird stuff.
@@CowboyCountry very weird. This was in the same general area as St. Mail?
@@TheLoreLodge Yes it is, within around 50 miles to the south in the same (Boulder) county
@@CowboyCountry very interesting, I’ll have to look into any other sightings of the group. Could be just some drugged out people in the woods, could be a cult. Either way, interesting to say the least.
I really wouldn’t be surprised if one of the priests or seminary’s molested Bobby or tried to and he ran away. Probably scared to go back for that reason, and possibly covered up by the church
Especially a disabled one. Disabled children tend to be targeted and more vulnerable.
Creepy fan fiction
strangle the kid or spend a decade in prison? easy choice for these monsters. how did the one guy know where to find the body to get the skull? i think he gave it to the killer to remind him of what he'd done. after the killer confessed to him, they were both part of a satanistic coven
there is NO doubt that they were banging the kids. this kid may have been hurt physically by it, and ran for help. which couldnt be allowed. (rectal bleeding, etc) and the seminary guy just squeezed his neck to stop him from screaming . a little too hard. ..its ridiculously easy to kill even when you dont intend to
Typical of religious people. Most of them are perverts.
"Son, I'd like to give you something. A F*CKING HUMAN SKULL."
"Thanks dad."
Right? And a CHILDS skull at that!
Yeah thanks dad and I can’t remember exactly what he said about it. I think you would remember every single word for the rest of your life
As to not drowning in the creek, you can drown in extremely shallow water even though it is rare for older children like Bobby but it has happened even with adults sometimes. However, it is true that he should have been found. I think it is high risk he was a victim of something really bad.
I was in Civil Air Patrol my freshman year of high school. It’s wild hearing that name again, I feel like so few people know it exists. This is such a sad case and I hope Bobby is at peace. Excellent video as always.
I am here because of Pop Culture Crisis. You were a wonderful guest! I am going to try and watch as many videos as I can tonight. Much love brother and keep doing what you are doing!
Thank you!
@@TheLoreLodge no, thank you. These are great, and some videos really challenge preconceived notions
@@TheLoreLodge I love your videos Mr Mattis, keep it up! do what you like and screw the algorithm, if I ever get the chance I'd 100% subscribe to your patreon, you'll see me there one day!
Yea, gonna disagree with you here: The fact that no one was ever even accused of murder is NOT a reason to think murder is unlikely. In fact, it's the explanation that makes the MOST sense. Carrying a recently dead 80lb boy or the remains of a 80lb boy to the site is a small task compared to being discovered as a child-molesting murderer.
They found his skull in a dead priest basement in 2021. Yeah that screams murder
Not to mention that area was checked multiple times, so he probably wasn't there. Body or remains could have been ditched later on, catholics are all about that repenting and telling your preacher or whatever your sins.... you think the guy killed the kid then "repented" for his sins, then they helped make sure evidence was missing... like the kids skull? I mean if the guy "went fishing" with the kid and did something to him, he could have hid the body easily enough.
And lugging a dead 80lb kid up a mountain ain't that hard especially if you're afraid of going to prison for the rest of your life lmfao
Wouldn't surprise me if the reason he never returned to camp, despite having it in full view, was that he didn't want to go back because he felt unsafe... or _knew_ he was unsafe at camp. Poor kid.
Dear sir. I wanted to thank you for your time and dedication in presenting us these amazing stories.
I just randomly searched missing 411 and your videos popped up. While I like and respect what David does I like that you're diving deeper into some of these cases.
Keep doing what you're doing
This channel wouldn't even know about this case if Dave Paulides hadn't brought them all to light
@Hugh Junit David paulides doesn't strike me as the type of person who's worried about who gets the credit. I say the more people working on these cases to give these families closure and to make these parks safer, the better.
Paulides has done enough work with all of this to make his name synonymous with these stories, but he can't do all the work himself. He'll get the credit he's due, and for him, I don't think it's about the money. Sure, he writes books and makes documentaries, but that's A) to get the word out, and B) he has to fund all this stuff and sustain himself somehow.
Let's solve the cases first and worry about the glory for later. Be well my friends.
@@hughjunit2503 I guess you missed the whole bit about news station looking into that camp as they were a bunch of peedos... or does that reporter owe that to David too?
Idk why you replied to my message anyway? It was so pointless I didn't address it till another message showed up.
@@jlo7770 there are a bunch of these people that crop up on these videos. They get very offended when someone talks "411" cases, sometimes even if it's with David's blessing.
@@carnuatus makes sense. And someone debunking his research could offend them. Well all I can say to them types is if David is omitting important facts to make his stories fit a narrative then it makes him seriously questionable as a whole.
I think the most likely scenario is that Neil's candy story is closer to the truth than the fishing story but still leaving some major pieces out. So Neil tells Bobby that he won't sell Bobby candy, but then offers Bobby a different way to get candy. Bobby runs off either when Neil proposes sexual favors for candy or after Neil molests him. It explains why he seemed hurt and embarrassed and why the counselors made up the fishing story. He ran from the camp and didn't go back even though he could see it because he wanted to be as far from the camp as he could be. I think he then probably succumbed to the elements. It is also possible he killed himself after being molested and the camp was covering that up. The stuff with the skull does seem to point to some sort of cover up, because why wouldn't he give it to a friend and not the police, but I think the cover up was about the sex abuse and not murder. The dude took the skull because he was a sick piece of shit and he thought it was cool. He took it as a sort of memento to the time when he covered up the sexual abuse and eventual death of a child because he was into horrible shit.
If it really happened so, i wish those f-ng bunch of candies stuck in Neils f-ng ass deep enough to make those beast yelling out loud...
I have to agree. It was likely an attempt to not smear the “good name” of the priests. Hrumph. Well it failed in the end because now the stories are coming out and there will be a ton of pressure on those sickos.
This poor baby. I can’t imagine how his parents felt from him disappearing to all this coming out about the priests. God be with this baby and his family. ❤
Sick people are everywhere. Those poor kids. RIP Bobby Bizup. Great video!
My question is, if all of this happened so close to camp (the stuff with the priests and the boy) where did they hide the body so well that even the blood hounds couldn't find the sent. It was mentioned that they could get a sent to the fishing spot, but not the boy INSIDE the building?
They wouldn't have a second thought about his scent being inside a building he spent a large percentage of his time in already. That would have been normal, and so not considered suspicious I think. Though I do think they should have checked around the edges of the camp to see if his scent branched anywhere else.
Honestly, that could be simply due to the rainstorm. Muddys things up.
Dude, you are so good at what you do. You managed to untangle all the threads of that event and put them back together in such a concise and organised way. There's so much going on in this story, so that was no easy feat.
I highly enjoyed it, can't wait to see what's next!
When you said "white, " I thought snow and he went up and not down. The discrepancy of whether he was alone or not and then the fact that they were priests or studying to be priests, of course my mind goes to sexual abuse. Then the 3 days that they didn't report the bone seemed like there was some covering going on beforehand. The whole thing actually makes sense, unfortunately.
I love your examination of these cases. This disappearance eats at me. Its absolutely heart-wrenching that the Bizup family was denied the right to bury their son's complete reamins because of the hubris of 2 men. I was raised catholic and the lies and secrecy of the church is undeniable. Such a sad case
This causes more questions than answers. So strange. I am glad you retold this story for all of us to know. I hope his family is at peace, Bobby, too. 🕊️
I really appreciated your choice to open the video with a discussion on the history of the tribes whose land the story takes place on! Not just a nod either, but a wonderful look at the context of the larger story. Great work.
I don't find it at all implausible that a healthy grown man could not carry an 80 pound dead body up a mountain.
I was on a solo hike once when I encountered another solo hiker who had broken her foot.
I piggy backed her about 5 miles back to the parking lot where we could get help for he. She wasn't super heavy, but she was way over 80 pounds, closer to 120 I'd say.
It hurt but I did it. You should have seen the look on her face when I took my prosthetic leg off to inspect my sore stump.
So if I could carry a 120 pound woman 5 miles out of the woods, I see no reason one of these guys would have trouble carrying an 80 pound boy into the woods.
yeah, not to mention the use of makeshift sleds tied to the waist
Well done y'all. Nice it's not all opinion but rather valid, thought out research. Kudos. Keep it up and looking forward to more.
Very well told, Aiden. Poor Bobby. My heart cries out for him.
I don't think it's so weird that the disgraced priest would explicitly deny involvement in Bobby's death without being asked; even without the question being raised, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to realize where the suspicions would naturally go, and try to head those off at the pass, ESPECIALLY if in the same interview he openly admitted to molesting other children, which would lead to the thought "Well, did he molest Bobby and then kill him to keep him quiet?"
Kudos on the level of research you guys put in to these stories!
Theory, the father offered him candy after telling him no, for something inappropriate, which made Bobby embarrassed and hurt and ran off. And I think he took the skull as a trophy or similar.
Exactly what I think. If a boy goes missing around Catholics you can almost bet the farm one of the priest tried some pedophile BS and wen Bobby said no and I'll tell you can fill in the blanks.
I was thinking that.
Let's be clear, though. It was Fr. Hewitt that reported he said no to Bobby for candy. It was Fr. Heister who had the skull.
@@LQOTW Let's be real, both of them were probably in on it
Maybe, but giving the skull away is so strange. I don't know why he didn't hide it. What's even more strange is his friend keeping it and giving it to his son. Can you imagine someone giving you a human skull and not going to the police with it? I can't.
We are Native Americans (I'm 1/8 Alabama-Coushatta and my daughter and her father are federally registered Eastern Shoshone - he's full blooded & daughter is 55.75%) so I thank you for the in depth look at the natives who inhabited the Colorado area prior to your story.
I do want to mention however that to our knowledge, the Kiowa tribe is pronounced as K-EYE-Oh-Wah. Just a little FYI as we attend mltiple pow wows yearly and that is how those people themselves say their tribal name.
Thanks again!
DocC
I noticed that too. My Mom and Dad taught us how to pronounce the Tribal names during road trips. Our favorite way to pass time on the turnpike was contribute names.
From the Uk and find Native American history fascinating so much love and respect
Dr. Cheryl: Thank you for your post! Retired Teacher here 37 years, 31 at the Preschool level! I am a big supporter of the American Indian College Fund in Denver Colorado! 🤗🥰🤗🇩🇪🇨🇭🇺🇲🌊♀️🌊♀️🌊♀️
Tom Brown the Tracker was trained in the 1960's by Apache Scout and Elder Grandfather Stalking Wolf! I highly recommend reading Tom Brown's books! He learned a lot about Native American Survival techniques! Grandfather was Apache! 🥰🤗🇩🇪🇨🇭🇺🇲🌊♀️
I hate to say it, but when I saw the 411 documentary that featured this case, the first thing I thought when I heard about the camp was sexual abuse. I was surprised David Paulides didn't even mention the possibility, and now to find that several of the councillors were later accused! Thanks for giving us the background that is conveniently left out of those docs in order to make each case seem more "mysterious."
The Lore Lodge mentioned in another video that the info about the priests came out after the 411 documentary, so Paulides didn’t have that info, which of course changes everything.
Man that’s an upsetting story
I have to agree. I hope his killer is sweating bullets now that his skull has been found if the killer is still alive. And if he is convicted of molestation and murder he better pray that he gets solitary confinement because, as I heard, child abusers, molesters and people who kill kids don’t exactly last long in prison if you get my point. Not to mention the fiery punishment that awaits the killer in the afterlife.
this is a sick thought what if during the search for him. the person who he was running from him came across him and shut him up for good but the kid led him on a foot chase and that's why he's where he was found kid didn't go down without a fight
This case hurts. I have 2 sons, 9 and 12 respectively. I would move heaven and earth to protect them. I'm so saddened for Bobby. 😢
Amen I couldn't imagine what the family goes through it would be hell on earth
Rev. Hiester could have been given the skull as part of a confession by someone he knew. He couldn't reveal to the police who he had gotten it from without breaking the seal of confession and he couldn't keep the skull without explanation, so he gave it to a friend who was a doctor. Back then, it was legal for a doctor to have human bones.
As a priest, he would have given it a funeral, private, just himself - but he would’ve thought it to be required by his religion. As the person guilty, he would want to make sure that his trophy was somewhere. Just a thought.
@Bee This may be prevalent thought today, but certainly not when the boy went missing.
@@lyrehlife9277 There is no evidence that the priest molested him and certainly not that he killed him; that is prejudicial on your part. Molesters rarely kill, those are two separate crimes. I think my theory is more balanced.
@Bee-ld6do Catholic priests cannot break the seal of the confession under any circumstances. They face the threat of the excommunication
This is why religion is a fucking problem, 10000s of murders covered up because "iT wAs CoNfEsSiOn"
I hear sleep-away camp and Catholic Church together and I get very bad vibes.
Edit: those seminarians and priests were brutal predators. I had my own run-ins with them in the very early 80’s and it has complicated things in my adult life that’s for sure 😪
I have no idea how I got here But you present so well that I attentively watched and listened closely to the story. All I can say is that for what it's worth_ there is 1 more person on the planet who is deeply saddened and angered by this boy's tragic end. ☹️😢
I read about Bobby Bizup awhile back, back when other story tellers were reporting it as a "mysterious" missing411 case. In 2019 the Colorado Attorney General released a report stating that hundreds of children were abused by dozens of priests in the Colorado Diocese for approximately 70 years. And what better place to do this than at a mountain retreat away from the parents.The authorities continue to investigate as more victims come forward. The church knew priests were abusing kids and hid that fact! Recently authorities in Illinois released a report stating that 1,900 kids were abused by priests in that state. There is a pattern here. Have pedophiles have been going into the priesthood in order to gain access to children? Pick a city. All together there have been cases of priests related child abuse in cities involving thousands of kids for decades! And the Catholic Church has hidden these cases. The only narrative we have here is what the adult said. Did an adult silence him for fear of being revealed after abusing him? That's a possibility. Did you mention the investigations by authorities, I must've missed that.
We primarily focused on the journalistic efforts to cover this specific case, but we did mention that the whole thing was blown open by the discovery of the abuse in 2019.
I was a girl scout and attended this church services while I attended camp at Allenspark. The chapel has been the same. I was married in 1990 at the chapel as well, and it has been a very special chapel to me most of my life (60 years). I am saddened about this boy's death.
I've only just discovered this channel, love that you have so much detail and include the speculations as well. Makes for a super interesting listen!
One unstated thing in this story really concerns me. The man who inherited the skull from the camp director said that he was looking through records to find the possible missing kid it matches. This tends to indicate that there were multiple kids in the area who went missing during that time period, and taking a skull is some real serial killer behavior. Somebody need to look into whether other kids went missing in the vicinity of that camp director over the years.
I would bet on one of two scenarios here:
1) Murder, followed by body disposal and scavenger predation.
2) The kid ran away, succumbed to the elements after evading searchers for a while, and then was scavenged. Then, when the bones were found, the camp director went out and looked over the area to ensure that there isn't anything that could incriminate him, and he found the skull, which he took home.
Ooh, that’s a good point. You think there were other victims at the camp? Yes, yes I can see the scenario quite clearly. It’s only a matter of looking into other kids who might have gone missing from that camp. There is definitely a bit of a conspiracy in the camp. A lot of things stink in that camp and I’m beginning to think Bobby wasn’t the only victim.
@@mirandagoldstine8548 If we're talking generally, organized serial killers tend not to kill people around them unless they get really comfortable and arrogant. This only happens if they have a lot of experience and have remained completely off the radar (and this was before the concept of a serial killer was well known, and before jurisdictions would share info). Conversely, some serial killers start killing by accident (eg. the director tried to molest Bobby, who freaked out, causing him to kill Bobby impulsively), and keep doing it because they enjoy it.
Unfortunately, I don't see an investigation here being all that likely, as the priest status provided virtual immunity from suspicion in those days, and the Church has proven complicit in hiding evidence of horrible crimes. Even if some other staff saw him with the body, I have no faith that they would have said anything out of misguided defense of the faith.
@@theprogressivecynic2407 True, true. But here’s the thing about the truth: it always comes out in the end.
this narrator (Aiden Mattis?) is obviously one of the most intelligent, logical and thorough researchers I have heard. His logic is both incisive and faultless. Glad I found this site. Thanks for your obvious tireless research.
Your research into these cases is always excellent.
Your content, delivery and research is top notch. Glad I found your channel
if there is one thing i know about traumatized children, they are more likely to make irrational decisions. It sounds like he was attacked/abused and ran off, and due to a policy of secrecy/privacy in the camp, nobody said anything. He most likely ran up as far as he could, running on adrenaline, until he could see the camp. It would not surprise me if he waited there because he was too afraid to come down. Not to mention the extra stigma of being sexually abused, it makes sense why he would be avoiding getting caught. On the other hand though, there is the… propensity, for lack of a better word, of the catholic church covering up abuses. He may have been killed accidentally, purposefully, or just lost, but i believe if that happened they would’ve covered it up. They may have moved his body for the duration of the search, putting it in a place that had already been searched once the authorities left. However I have a feeling he was avoiding search and rescue attempts. If he got up that high and saw everyone looking for him, he may have evaded everyone. Especially if it was mostly men looking for him, he may have been scared his abuser was one of the men. If he was recently traumatized, his emotions may have outweighed his survival instincts.
This is definitely foul play. Poor kiddo. His parents must've been driven crazy thinking what happened to him
It's absolutely heartbreaking the way this world hurts kids. 💔 new sub from New Zealand.
Wow, there's so much more information here compared to the glossing given in the Missing: 411 movie.
The research and straight talk is fantastic
I spent a month every summer at summer camp near Lassen, Ca in the early 80’s. We were pretty free-range kids back then too. Some of my fondest memories. Never did see the big hairy guy, but many said they did.
Honestly, this is scarier to me than anything in those national parks.
I was in boy scouts and went to a place called Camp Alexander. It’s about three hours from St Malo. Rain in the Rockies, especially at that camp, is terrifying. I’m talking the trails turned into creeks terrifying. We had to put logs into the dirt to stop it from being swept away, but that didn’t help
it sounds like the skull was a trophy to me. i think they put the bones up there post mortem and believed that reporting them a year afterwards would absolve them of suspicion.
yeah , they only found him after searching from above the treeline,with cameras, because they already knew where they had left him.
Man. Another great episode. You put in the work. Thanks!
Catholic church owning a boy camp in the woods in the 50's... no red flags there lol
Sounds like Bobby was killed and thrown up there to be away from sight and it was a tall clearing perfect for all animal's to find him and pick his body clean. Then the person who did went back up for a prize and then told the camp to report it after he got his prize
I think he was abused by one of the priests, most likely Hewlett, quite possibly raped and when he got away and went looking for help he was upset, scared and angry. Take a child that already has difficulty in communication with people and put him under intense stress and he most likely would have been difficult to understand. Personally I think Hewlett realized that Bobby would eventually manage to get his message across to other adults and panicked. I think he caught him while trying to leave camp when almost everyone else would have been inside eating lunch and killed him to guarantee that the secret would never get out. He could have concealed the body and then moved it later that night. I think Hewlett went to Heaster and confessed what he'd done. As we've all learned through other stories involving Catholic priests, they're pretty good at covering for each other. I think Heaster concealed the skull in his attempt at preventing the positive ID of the body. Back then dental records would have been the most reliable way to identify Bobby. Heaster kept the skull for concealment and instead of turning it over to the authorities, he gave it to a trusted friend so he himself would not be charged with interfering with the investigation. And the man who kept the skull for Heaster had to have known the whole story. Why would he tell his own son, "it may or may not be a boy that went missing from camp back in the fifties?" And any normal person would have immediately gone to the proper authorities and turned it in. I think it's all a big stinking cover up. I think at least two people, possibly more, should have been charged in the death of Bobby. I think an innocent little boy went to camp excited to be camping, fishing, swimming and hiking and wound up dead. And you left a thread hanging; was the skull positively identified as belonging to Bobby and was it interred with the rest of his remains?
I'm so glad I found your channel! I like this style of true crime narrating, reminds me of Mr Ballen, That Chapter, and Coffeehouse Crime. I'm really enjoying it 😊
I was a ranch kid in the 80s and my younger cousins and I would be gone all day climbing the mountains, exploring creeks, playing in the barns… it wasn’t that long ago that kids were allowed to be feral lol
And we gathered in groups much larger than 3! Now if you get 5 of ur buddies to come play the police are obligated to come question everyone; no wonder they sit in basements and grow angrier and angrier till they turn into a mass murderer
Nice boomer tangent.
@@agencymenace1090 Not a boomer if a young child in the 80s.
The video is about a kid getting molested and dying and you’re just like “I used to DRINK from the HOSE”
they find his ballcap and hearing aid but no skull...
the whereabouts of the skull was explained. did you watch the video?
It does make it seem suspicious, especially since the skull was in a doctors desk drawer and nobody in the police seems to find that worth investigating further.
Sad and infuriating. I cannot imagine what that poor kid went through. A nightmare for any parent as well.
Fantastic coverage. I never had any clue to all this additional information.
I feel like he was messed with inappropriately by one or multiple of the adults there, ran off scared and embarrassed and maybe just hid out there unsure of what do to; he definitely wouldn’t have wanted to go back to that camp. Maybe he passed away from exposure, or was followed and hurt. Either way, I def believe the priests knew where the body was, and held onto it till the searches died down. That’d explain that dude’s access to the skull, and some of the bones being discovered in an area that was already searched.
Parents cared back in the 50's. My siblings that were born in the mid 50's, were not let out of my parents site, but we were all born in Brooklyn, a different type of wilderness, and children went missing there too.
I impressed by you and your channel. So much talent and fun to watch, clear and well done.
Great narration, knowledgeable and well spoken.
Kids back then would easily learned the area they were camping in and at least some survival knowledge. His skull kept basically as a trophy says a lot.
This case is heartbreaking.
Another great story, keep up the good work 👏🏼
100% agree with you as you were telling the story that is what I envisioned happening!
I'm a big fan of the show, just love it. Keep up the great work! But just for clarity, Arizona’s population, now estimated at 7,359,197.
The person that told the story he was DOWN hill instead of up hill did it to get the search people to look where he would not be. Also, it was reported late to give them a chance to move the body farther away.
Thank you for covering this in a respectable way
Your video are quite good. You're one of the rare true crimes/mysteries channels that shows theirs face and do the narration on screen.
You have to consider first the counsolrs and priests did the search for him before initially reporting it to the park service. More than enough time for him to flee to the top of the mountain, be caught up by an adult or many adults and silenced before he could break a scandal.
This is the main reason that the Boy Scouts has a 2 deep leadership rule at all times. Also a Buddy System for campers. You don't go alone and you are not alone at any time. Plus no campers sleep with councilors. Unless they are also the parents. Even then, my boys had a separate tent from mine at camp. At least until they were grown.
Great video. This is a very sad story. The child was abused and killed to silence him, I feel. Another tragedy.
Pretty much all of your videos are subjects I've never heard of so it's interesting to hear the cases. The ones I did hear of I didn't know the full story and you go into it.
Was just @ St. Malo two years ago, still a beautiful but haunted place open to the public. Great vid and the skull is everything. All us lazyboy crime fans consider: How was that skull separated from the skeleton, cleaned and appropriated to ANYONE⁉️The murderer (it's clear to me with your evidence,) possessed that skull. It's a sick trophy, murderers apparently can't help themselves to make, take and keep such things. I theorize Bobby was assaulted, split the scene in a horrific panic, was stalked or corralled, killed to keep him silent and authorities pawned off the story.
wow.
RIP Bobby, so sad for his devoted parents, all the search parties, volunteers and community that were defeated by the sins of the fathers.
It's Easter today, I believe in a Sovereign and power greater than myself to get through this life but forgiving the priests, nuns and any other authority figure who preys on innocents is a hard commandment for me to embrace. I don't know if there is enough grace for these premeditated crimes.
This is such a good, clear video. Subscribed! That poor boy and those poor kids who were abuse victims.
Just stopping by to say that I got your coffee and it AMAZING. It honestly might be my favorite coffee. The chocolate and berry notes really come through! I've had it hot and I also have a cold brew batch going for it now! I'm sure that will be amazing too.
Just found your channel man already loving it keep it up
Predators go for the easiest prey. Somebody seems to have thought Bobby would be easy prey.
Edit. The skull raises the possibility of the skull being a serial killer's souvenier.
Algorithm juice
Mmmm my favorite
Another good one guys! Keep up the gr8 work!!!
Just subscribed to your channel, please keep doing more of these stories.
The skull also could've been taken to prevent investigators looking into Bobby's case as a murder if Bobby was murdered by being struck over the head hard enough to kill him. The skull, and his head in general, would've given investigators a clue that showed he was likely murdered.
If the killing blow was hard enough to cause damage to the skull, then the -chikd predator- priest might've gotten rid of it, although he did so in a very illogical way.
The dental record thing is probably more likely and the only other reason I can think of is getting rid of it in case the skull was cracked. I wonder if the skull has any fractures. 🤔
I also wonder if maybe Bobby's killer hid his body, waited till the search and camp was over, then took his body up to where it was found, making sure to take Bobby's decomposing head home to hide the evidence of how he was killed and to prevent his dental record from being used to identify him. Its really hard to say in this case. 🤷♀️