What would be your ideal Super Sonic final boss fight? Personally, I think these fights are pretty underwhelming and would change a lot about them. Also, thank you for Likewise TV for sponsoring this video! Try out Likewise TV for free! Bundle all of your streaming services together in one convenient hub: on.likewise.com/chaomix
I think that a multi-step final boss could work: you fly around the gargantuan boss (I'm thinking of a creature that's only not bigger than Dark Gaia) looking for a weak spot then hit it. The more you hit, the more desperate it gets and the harder it is to find the next weak spot
Super sonic flying through chunks of every normal level in the game to build up enough speed to defeat the boss in one hit. (Think a better end of the world from 06)
I would like a super sonic boss fight where you go so fast and dodge the attacks of the enemy and I also wish they would bring more new abilities to super sonic in the games.
A boss fight that mixes the base but enhanced abilities of sonic (with a few extra ones) in an actual level, except shorter, and a flight mechanic less bland than white bread. Great music but that's expected. Cinematic with very few cutscenes. As for a fight with multiple super characters. Same thing but with more levels, probably one per character. And for the flight sections, let us switch up between them. I'm thinking that for flight segments you should be able to use all his moves in a new way, if its a spindash it should launch you in a direction, but you can't stop it once goes and you have to charge it up, which takes a bit, that way the air dash still has validity, but it can do more damage if you hit it at a higher speed (just so you're rewarded for getting close). A sidestep that instead is a dodge in any direction. The boost is the boost, no drift bc that doesn't make sense. Obviously there are a lot of moves but I really don't feel like putting em all here
Super Sonic is a cool completion reward and he offers a cool ending to the games he fought the final bosses in. I like him. I kinda missed him being involved in the stories since the meta era started. I do think that the forms from the storybook games were cooler though.
Colors not letting Super Sonic use Wisps was such a letdown, when I played I was expecting enhanced versions of the powerups. Also the lack of Double Jump
@@SuperZombieBros Colors(DS)Didn't even Have Super Sonic!Just The Infinite Boost Cheat!Sonic Battle's Final Boss,Ultimate Emerl,Is The Best Iteration Of Super Sonic!The Ultimate Skills Of Awakened Emerl Are All Enhanced Versions Of Sonic's Moves!Eggman Is Even Cheaper than That!He Can Kill 3 Uber Emerls EASILY!
In all honesty, Super Sonic needs more abilities. I remember when Sonic had the blue tornado and whirlwind ability in the early 2000’s. Imagine that, but x10 the power and an atomic blast that’s similar to Shadow’s Chaos blast! If we can get this in the future, it’d be great!
In Sonic Chronicles (which is now non-canon) Super Sonic could give off golden fireballs, chain all his base form abilities together (spin dash, homing attack, axel kick, etc) and straight up shoot a large chaos energy blast. A shame the fight was lame AF since you could end it in a single turn pretty easily then again Super Sonic being broken makes sense too.
@@arkhamknight620 The new Sonic lorebook published by Sega and written by Ian Flynn confirms that Sonic Chronicles is now non-canon. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the last fans to take Sega's word at face value but since it was stated in an official Sonic product rather than in some vague or obscure interview it does give the statement some value.
@@lynxfresh5214 And why is it even in the book if it’s non canon? I never saw a single statement on the guidebook about that. Plus higher up people have actually debunked that.
Maybe they should have had Super Sonic actually feel like a Chaos powered Super form I mean take the Archie Comics for example Super Sonic was able to shoot beams of energy with some of it being a weird chaos control beam, the regular chaos control, intangibility and even create force fields. The Fleetway comics gave Super Sonic the ability to absorb chaos energy from other people and shoot awesome laser beams from his eyes. Hell even Sonic Chronicles actually tried to give Super Sonic a more unique moveset sure it was kinda automatic but it really gave us a reason to call Super Sonic well SUPER SONIC. Why does external Sonic media always make Super Sonic look a lot cooler than the games?
I think you kinda answered your own question "external media" isn't directly tied down by Sega like the core games and thus have more creativity to do more with the Sonic brand (I mean Movie Sonic has a mom). And before someone brings up the obvious, yes too much creative freedom is also a detriment hence the whole Ken Penders debacle.
@@lynxfresh5214 here's something nearly canon: in s3&k, super sonic was originally going to be able to fire rings (which is why super mecha sonic does so)
@@lynxfresh5214 Ken Penders's problem wasn't that he had too much creative freedom, it was that he was a terrible writer and that he kept his job for as long as he did due to nepotism. Combine that with Sega and Archie Comics being awful at handling legal issues which led to Penders winning in the end. Man, the Sonic series truly is cursed.
I mean Metal Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Knuckles, Tails, etc have all shown to be able use the emeralds (Plus Blaze too with her Sol Emeralds). It's pretty strange we haven't had a fight between super forms in the games yet comics as well as animation have already done it ages ago.
I think Unleashed did it right, it truly felt like a spectacle watching the full final boss play out from the start as the Gaia Colossal to the final blow as Super Sonic.
Yea Base Sonic can be a bit more fun to use as he has a variety of moves to use. And those Final Boss battles should have an equal amount of hype. A piece of uniqueness is welcome, but it should still be very exciting and not something bare bones.
If you ask me, if the boss fights are truly going to utilize Super Sonic, it's best to give some abilities and possibly some quick time events. Doing the same thing over and over again by spin jumping onto the enemy's weakness has been tried and true.
I immediately thought of this video when the first Super Sonic segment came up in Sonic Frontiers because... Well, I won't spoil it. Let's just say I think they did a lot of things this video suggests
8:40 The way I see it, that's EXACTLY why Super Sonic is better. Base Sonic needs a whole ton of moves to succeed, while Super Sonic just needs to do basic stuff like running and jumping 'cause he's just this freakin' godlike. Hell, the very fact that he effing dies when he reverts back to base form in the Super bossfights should be a dead giveaway that Super is super(ior)
The argument in itself is redundent and mentally challenged. Spin Dash is only effective against the ground because of friction and momentum, in flight it has no use and especially in areas where flight is the only relevant solution, and the super form does not stop Sonic from using it at all. The effectiveness should be tripled even with every other moves in his arsenal.
@@arkhamknight620 False, Sonic done 50+ things over the years, 1 ability he has or had includes Flame Step which involves him performing a quick double backflip using his one hand and whatnot, shame Sonic & the Secret Rings got terrible reviews because none of those moves will return.
@@artistanthony1007 I mean the newer games. All of that is unlock able skill sets, the base combat capability for Sonic is just homing attack or jump, which is boring. Sonic now is just boost and homing attack, oh and occasionally you'll use the pointless light speed dash.
While I don’t think any of these bosses are “bad” I do think that they should have a bit more to them, the gameplay in the super fights from sa1-unleashed/black knight are all pretty good-great. I would have these bosses be extremely cinematic, with lots of different phases of attacks from the boss and different ways to attack the boss. I would also give super sonic the ability to attack from the ground with sonics base form moves but enhanced. Then when in air you would have different types of attacks like chaos abilities and some form of dodge. I would also make the fights MUCH longer, at least 5 minutes.
I suppose my ideal Super Sonic Boss Fight would be a sort of mix of what we've gotten. A large level, but also a flying boss. So imagine this: You are put into a large open arena, with platforms, pits, hazards and structures and just general good level design, with the boss flying around. You need to make good use of the level design such as slopes, ramps, and walls to get up to the boss so that you can hit him. (You can fly at will during this phase, but it's not required) For the second phase, the boss destroys the arena, leaving a massive pit that you need to now fly to stay out of. You'd still have full control of Sonic's moveset, just now you're flying (Similar to Heroes, but you can ascend and descend at will). For this phase, the Boss's weakpoints could be physically inside him, so you need to fly around him, avoiding his attacks, until you find the opening. Then you go through a short, forward moving level (similar to Sonic Unleashed's Dark Gaia Phase One) where you need enough speed to even reach the weakpoint to damage it. If you hit the weakpoint (or if you fail) you are then spat back out to resume the fight (or to try again). A successful hit gives you some rings, whereas a failed hit just doesn't do anything but waste precious time. The final phase would then have the boss's weakpoints be on the outside, but he becomes more aggressive, flinging more attacks and projectiles. You can fly around him and hit the weakpoints directly, OR you can gain enough speed to reflect his projectiles back at him, or deflect his massive physical attacks, stunning him for a moment so you can hit the weakpoint itself and deal further damage. This is more ideal for a Colossal Boss rather than a direct character battle like say, Super Shadow (or Infinite if they ever bring him back)
I have to say, in all the games where I've played as super sonic as the final boss, it isn't usually one of my favourites. For Unleashed and Generations, their final bosses are probably my least favourite in their respective games. They often involve a lot of just boosting for a while until you hit the weak point, and it is often kinda boring/frustrating. I think the fact that they often a completely different moveset means that you have to deal with a brand new control scheme that is only used once, instead of having a battle that tests the player's grasp of the moveset that they have been using for the entire game. Sonic colours final boss, while pretty easy, has you use more of your regular moveset to avoid attacks and catch up to eggman, which makes it a much more enjoyable boss fight. To make a super sonic fight more fun, they should probably make the moveset for his super form more similar to his regular form, but enhanced slightly to make him feel "super".
Some mfkers be saying "aged like milk" when litteraly it hasnt, chaomix was right it was lame and sonic frontiers actually seem to take into consideration of what was said in the video, a build up on the base of sonic and then some, which is exactly what happened in frontiers
I think it would be cooler if he unlocked Super Sonic during the fight, and not before. It would have the same effect as playing him in regular levels. Make the fight possible with Sonic and if you’re good enough, you can get the final hits easily with an enhanced moveset
Honestly my actual favorite super endgame boss fight is Devil Doom in Shadow. It felt decently challenging and empowering at the same time. Introduced a choas spear ability that can be charged and some level of strategy to the fight as managing your ring count is real tricky. And it's preceded by an actual level where you have to make use of choas control in order to make it in time. I've thought about how I would direct a game and I think it would be best to start the game in a super sonic boss fight. Like unleashed but playable. Then that way, it builds intrigue as to how the game will finish. I think a 3d burning blaze or more fleshed out Silver would be cool. Any other suggestions?
The idea of starting a game by giving you a taste of being OP before taking it away and teasing you with being able to get it back as a reward is definitely a good idea.
@@MegaGlassguy A Fan-Game made by a guy named Noah Copeland which is a remake of an Game Gear Sonic game named Triple Trouble already kind of does that.
Metroid Prime sorta does that in the opening sequence onboard the Frigate Orpheon and it works pretty well there, so yeah, an already existing game can back up that that's a good idea.
This video kinda aged badly lol, but Sonic Frontiers thankfully fixed this problem. It gave us the best boss battles and best Super Sonic in the franchise
It's almost like the forget all the powers he has Chaos beams Chaos spears Teleportation Time manipulation Opening up portals Energy negation And charging up physical attack with energy
I also feel that Sonic stories would be more interesting if they properly escalated the tension to higher levels in these stories that didn't feature super sonic. I appreciate that recent games haven't used super sonic as much, but the stories haven't felt like they built up the stakes and conflict enough. Nor has it involved enough of the other characters, nor has it felt like the boss has required it's own massive effort or planning to face. The lack of chaos emeralds and super sonic is a storytelling opportunity, but I don't think they've truly taken advantage of the removal of this "crutch" as it were. (Also, they kind of need to explain why the chaos emeralds aren't involved in the stories. Maybe if they made the effort to portray the emeralds as being REALLY HARD to find. To the point that both the Sonic heroes, and Eggman have trouble obtaining them.) I'd really love to see a huge, perfect chaos, continental/world ending-level threat that is properly built up throughout the story in the same way that 1998-2008 level final bosses were, that requires the characters to join forces and come up with a unique plan of attack in order to defeat them. I'd love for some kind of monster or demigod or super dimensional being the power level of the final hazard/perfect chaos/dark gaia that requires sonic, shadow, silver, blaze and other characters to work together to defeat. Not using the chaos emeralds or the sol emeralds and facing these seemingly impossible odds themselves. Of course, I'd still like to have the emeralds involved. It's not like I never want a super sonic final boss again, but I'd prefer that they mix it up more and make the end of the game more unpredictable. I've always thought it'd be cool if the chaos emeralds we're collected over the course of multiple games, so we have to keep track of who has each one, and the super sonic boss is a payoff after 2-3 games building up to it. And if they wanted to give us super forms playable in regular levels, that could be a (non-canon) feature that is achieved by collecting all the red rings or getting all a ranks or something like that. The stakes are much more real if the danger feels insurmountable. If the super sonic boss is how it ends every time, then nothing feels dangerous. Is super sonic isn't present, the only thing missing is to truly build up the danger and anxiousness of the story. What do all of you think?
Really!? Most folks I know actually love Super Tails and there are even memes about Tails having the most broken super form of them all thanks to his... FLICKY ARMY OF DEATH!
@@lynxfresh5214 I mean to be truthful, Tails only had 2 super appearances, that appears in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and Sonic Mania, but aside from mods for various games, yeah, he would be popular.
Hey chaomix can you do a Video about why Sega and Sonic Team are ignoring Cream the Rabbit,she's the Kindness Character in the entire Franchise including Vanilla the Rabbit that delivers alot of love and attention in the Games.
I think it would be cool to have a Super Sonic boss fight where it's this 3D level where you switch from "running" to flying for certain parts as the boss moves the platforms to trip Sonic up. Then when Sonic gets close he can dodge the bosses combat attacks and retaliate with a well timed homing attack. Rinse and repeat with it getting progressively harder each time till the boss is defeated.
Getting super sonic in any game where you don’t get them in the story are always annoying , making you replay levels over and over , when you unlock a level you should just get unlimited access to special stages, it doesn’t up play time it makes me want to play less
I honestly always thought the worst part about Super Sonic was how unspecial he can feel. Sure in a gameplay sense, it can be cool to control Super Sonic in normal levels but it just makes the form feel so standard and not like Sonic's ultimate form used in the most dangerous situations. I do agree that the boss battles with Super Sonic could feel a bit more unique though. Flying around is cool and all but if that's all you do and it's less than your base form, it's lame.
Honestly, Imagine having a Super Sonic with all of Sonic’s less utilized skills super charged. For example, maybe you can use Sonic Wind in normal gameplay to stun enemies, but when your super you can use SUPER SONIC WIND which was one-shot robots and damage the boss.
I feel Super Sonic should stay as a reward and not be implemented into the stories too much. Sure the chaos emeralds themselves can be used for story, but not the characters relying on getting them to turn Sonic into super Sonic. Even if there was a final battle as SS, they should definitely give him more to do. You’re practically invincible and even faster now, there’s gotta be *something* fun they could think of making Sonic do other than slowly float towards the enemy. It’s gotta make you say “man, I wish I could play like that all the time”
@@jaymyster7463 he definitely needs more movement options. Maybe get rid of his ability to fly. Not entirely tho, just so he still has gravity. I feel like him being able to fly really limits what he can do movement-wise
I think the Chaos Emeralds can still be used for the story, but if they are they need to harken back to S3 & K, Rush and other games with hidden collectables where you're rewarded for exploring and conquering those extra challenges with the true final boss and ending.
@@jaymyster7463 He has an ability in the final boss of Chronicles which while not Spears, they're Streams of destructive energy but that move is non-canon unfortunately.
I don’t know, the simplicity of it never really bothered me. To me, the fact that all Super Sonic had to do was fly at the speed of light to obliterate enemies was awesome. If he was just sonic with an upgrade it wouldn’t feel as interesting. Frankly, playing as him in regular levels just makes him feel less special. I wouldn’t mind if he was utilized in longer stages of his own though, that would be cool. Making him just almost uncontrollably fast could be interesting and emphasize his speed in that form.
I dont think Hyper Sonic would make much of a difference as he completely invalidates Super Sonic. The super forms need more fleshing out before we start uping power levels. Cause that can lead to power creep which can be avoided by real positives and real consequences. Different reasons to use said forms.
Chaos Emeralds in Sonic 1: “What are the powers of these things?” Chaos Emeralds in Sonic 2: “This power is incredible! But…. I didn’t use it in a final boss fight!” Super Emeralds in Sonic 3 And Knuckles: “I finally can use a form in a final boss fight and it’s stronger than what I ever imagined possible! I’ve grown so much!” Chaos Emeralds in the Modern Sonic Games: “Ha ha power form go BRRRRR!” One thing that SEGA made clear: Super Tails and Super Knuckles will never return. That’s because only hedgehogs can use Super Forms according to SEGA. Super Forms and Hyper Forms are what make the Classic Games better than the Modern ones. There hasn’t been a single Sonic Game that’s topped the Trilogy for me, mostly Sonic 3 And Knuckles.
The way I feel about it is that it was cool as something you could unlock and play the game with... It became lame as soon as it became the "Secret" ending arc every time.
You hit the nail on the head, Chaomix. This really made me think about why some final bosses work and some don't for Super Sonic. When I really count which final bosses feel properly designed, I only come to 3Kz Adventure, and maybe Unleashed for main series. Super Sonic just isn't fun to play as in these final boss encounters. He doesn't feel super at all.
I'm just watching this video for the first time, and... Now that it's been out for a bit, I have to say that I think Frontiers has handled Super Sonic boss fights the best, by far. Spectacle is still a major focus (which is an okay thing, in my opinion), but that's coupled with him actually *feeling* like a suped-up version of his base form with enhanced abilities and even some new moves (though mostly in the form of his parries). It's just a solid and well-done implementation that I genuinely hope they continue to take into consideration for future games. Frontiers is pretty neat.
I agree with your points. I feel like Sega also knew this as well. Since now in Sonic Frontiers when becoming Super Sonic you get to use his abilities on multiple bosses the titans. There will be a skill tree for Sonic and most likely for Super Sonic as well. So we could see everything about Super Sonic's gameplay change in that game
@@bigmacsama Most of Egg Reverie Zone was actually unused, you can actually find the whole stage still in Maina's files implying it was ment to be a full on stage with far greater scope than what we actually got. At least that's what I think RisingRevolt is commenting about.
Sonic Frontiers really made Super Sonic cool again. They literately made him Super Sayian 3 Goku from Dragon Ball Z, which is extremely fitting since Super Sonic is a reference to Super Sayian. So, why not commit fully to that?
@chaomix: For me, Super Sonic’s move pool being extremely limited compared to Regular Sonic’s move pool isn’t really something I take issue with; Largely because being able to fly freely around the stage without having to worry about incoming obstacles outright *supersedes* any advantages Sonic’s regular move pool could have, but also because it’s something of a trade-off that the player only pursues at their own discretion; You’re actively choosing to trade out your large variety of specialized, physics-based moves for one or two highly versatile moves that can do everything the regular moves could do, but without being constrained by physics. That being said, I do agree that Super Sonic boss fights could stand to have some better level design (or at the very least, better mechanical design). For example, why not have a boss fight that’s literally just an entire Eggman-conquered planet? That way, you can forgo the need for a formal boss fight entirely, and have the whole planet act as a giant, mechanical death trap that regular Sonic wouldn’t be able to get through without help. Actually, that’s another thing point as to why Super Sonic boss fights (and boss fights in Sonic games in general) tend to be so lacking: When literally every boss fight with Eggman amounts to facing down yet another two-legged mech (or other vaguely bipedal-shaped creature), you end up with designs that require players to dispatch them in the exact same manner as you would any regular Badnik. …Which brings me to my other point I briefly mentioned earlier: If SEGA and Sonic Team are still gonna insist on having more straightforward, formal boss fights for Super Sonic, then they need to seriously expand the mechanical depth within said boss fights. In other words, make it so that hitting the Boss repeatedly doesn’t just amount to whacking the cockpit of Eggman’s giant machines over and over again; Eggman’s machines should have certain parts that deal out extremely specialized attacks, that make us prioritize which attacks we wanna deal with first. Then there should be weak points on those parts that: A) Are based on timing your attack. B) Involve moving Super Sonic around to a specific point on the machine. C) Require meeting some sort of sub-goal to expose the weak point/render it vulnerable to damage.
Good thing they followed your advice. The combat in frontiers is not super ultra perfect, but Super used the same combos but better and flashier, and it was the best Super Sonic experience I ever had
Hyper Sonic matters. Remember the Super Sonic fight from Sonic 3 & Knuckles? That was Hyper Sonic, and that form hasn't been seen since. We've only had one Hyper Sonic fight, and Doomsday Zone is one of the best final levels in the franchise.
The most dissapointing one was, honestly, Sonic Advance 1's Super boss. All that cool transition after defeating Eggman in the X-Zone, with Super Sonic flying to the moon (no pun intended)... ...And then a boss that you can defeat, without too much effort, in less than 40 seconds.
Umm what? I talked about how Super Sonic has Chaos Control, his unique ability sharing his name in Chronicles and Gravity Control, Gravity Dive & Meteor Burst.
"The problem is I'm actually struggling to think of any of these final boss battles that truely blew me away." *cut to Sonic Frontiers vs. Giganto, Wyvern, and Knight *
I like the ideas for making Super Sonic more dynamic, but for the most part I think this is the first time I've totally disagreed on a take. I actually find the "playable in level" Super Sonic rather boring. (And don't even get me started on how annoying the Super Sonic music in the classic games is). It's just turning on permanent invincibility and speed shoes on for most games, which isn't terribly exciting for me. I much prefer a cool Super Sonic final boss, and it's something I think more recent games have been worse for. I even disagree and I would say most of them are fun to great, with the only exception being poor Generations. That being said, I think your ideas are cool and could make for some interesting final bosses in the future.
Ohhhh, how much I disagree with your take, bud. I personally prefer having Super Sonic in the levels itself rather than just the final bosses. Specially after beating the special stages. I like plowing through everything and being almost unbeatable (save for environmental hazards like drowning, crushing and falling to the void). Just playing it at the end of game feels lame. This is at least one you can credit the meta era games for doing well.
I also somewhat disagree with this take, Maybe in the modern games i agree, but in all the classic games (Sonic 4 included), especially Sonic 2, Super Sonic is more of a challenge really. The levels in Sonic 2 and 3 weren't designed for Super/Hyper Sonics ridiculous speed, so he ends up speeding too hard off into bottomless pits or getting crushed, or losing your rings so you're now at 0 and you're open for attack. Or the worst one which is you're at a boss or the final boss (Sonic 3) and you run out of rings and then you die, so now you have to fight the final boss with no rings at all. Its still super interesting and not easy cause Super sonic is a challenge to control. The music is super annoying tho, ill give you that. The Super Sonic boss fights, for me, are overused and stale. Especially with how they're handled. The classic games did them right, others like Unleashed just had awful controls for the Xbox, and the Wiis version is just boring all together. Maybe if they handle it better in the future, ill change my mind about this.
@@alanbareiro6806 I must respectfully disagree with the meta era games as a whole doing it well. For one, Colors only gives you Super Sonic after 100% the entire game. Not just beating special stages, but digging through every scrap and corner of the game to do everything, at which point the idea of being invincible with unlimited boost feels uninteresting and wasted since at that point you've already seen everything the game has to offer. And furthermore, because of Colors' design relying on the wisps, many levels have to be re-adapted into letting you skip entire sections if you wish to play as Super Sonic, making it feel even more pointless because it only highlights that this game was not designed with Super Sonic in mind. Heck in some levels you won't be able to get enough rings to use him. When it comes to Generations, Classic Super is functional but has always lacked in the speed and jump department for me. He just feels like an invincible cheat without any real oomph behind it. And for Modern I don't know if it's just me but I always found that for some reason jumping while boosting doesn't seem to work at times, resulting in a lot of frustration rather than a joyful power trip. Not to mention he too feels underwhelming due to the little improvement it provides and is more of an infinite boost cheat. In Forces, ignoring the shameful monetization of a staple in the series, not only is there again little improvement when Super but it hardly feels worth it because of how small and restricted the levels are and how little of a difference the super state really does to waltzing through everything. Of course this is more of a fundamental issue with the game design itself but the fact remains that being Super does not feel special. Lost World I will give some credit, does at least make it fun but is also held down by the 100% requirement, at least on the Wii U version. And of course Mania, needless to say, nails it down to a T. But it's still only 2 games that I would consider to have done it well this decade.
@@MegaGlassguy I was referring more to the fact that those games have a playable Super Sonic. Now the execution on those games is lackluster I agree, but I still rather take them than not having it at all. Although I think that special stages are something that needs to return to the franchise.
@@alanbareiro6806 Eh, I must disagree with the idea that having them being done poorly is better than not having them because to me, that is exactly what gives ammunition to the idea that it's not a good feature. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be an option in future games, but it's hard to blame people for not caring about it when it is lackluster in your own words. It's the same thing when it comes to people saying they want their favorite character in whatever game comes next even if they'd serve no purpose, or those defending the fact that we now have 3 games that recycle the same final boss saying that it's better that than the final boss not being Eggman. We're placing the cart before the horse and compromising quality in exchange of having a feature that is only there for the sake of being there. Ideally there should be no need for an ultimatum about this subject as it should be possible to be done well in all games, but I personally would much rather not have Super Sonic playable in every game if every time he does appear as an unlockable, it feels special and fun rather than a boring, glorified cheat.
my idea: in a open zone (smaller starfall island), the boss is standing before you, and as you are super sonic, you chase him down as he flee from you (straight platformer-like phase) and when you finally hit him, it hit's you back, making you lose your chaos emeralds, you then have to get back the gems scatered on the open-zone to become super again, make sure you also get rings too, you won't get any in super form. Rince and repeat 3 times to get to the second phase, the boss steals some emeralds from you and gets buffed, now being just a buffed sonic, you run after him in the open-zone filled with obstacles to block you, when you reach the boss, you'll have to nearly doge the atacks it smaks you with, just so you can combo it and steal back the emeralds from him and turn super right in it's face, which gives big damage. final phase, the boss has gonne mad, reatreat back and unleash an apocallypse thingy, you hurry as time runs out and get him with your best super combos, mooving back the doomsday time limit each time. After 5 recoils, you rush him at the speed of light and zip back and forth agressively until you do a light explosion ! and it's over you defeated the boss roll credits
Between this thumbnail and your "Wisp Grabbing" Art this is no longer mere coincidence. You should sue Sega for using your concept of Sonic doing the Family Guy death pose and get the rights to Super Sonic in the process.
I really agree, Super Sonic bosses are kind of bland. (Reminds me of FNAF gameplay VS FNAF lore…Sonic lore carries a lot of opportunities) My idea: some sort of huge death egg robot that stays on the ground while Sonic flying around in super form AND running around in normal form to weaken it, and it’s attacks can throw Super Sonic around and really hinder normal Sonic. Or hey, Super Sonic makes a path for himself to go through in normal form to attack the boss.
I remember Sonic Adventure's Perfect Chaos was probably one of my first Super Sonic boss fights... He's also one of my LEAST favourites. Did it bug anyone else that you start the fight listening to "Open Your Heart" and not at the end phase? Even from a story aspect it's really not up to snuff. The story has a lot to do with the climactic appeal as you've said, but sadly these fights are, as you also said, incredibly barebones.
You wanna know what's really lame, hyper sonic, my dude appears only in one game, and then just appears as mod form. Sega could explain me more about the super chaos emeralds and why do they even put It on sonic 3 and knuckles
Shadow The Hedgehog does a great Super Form, because it looks at one of the core mechanics, the shooty-shooty-pow-pow, and for the first time truly let's us use Chaos Spear ourselves. As a charge-shot no less, an extremely satisfying weapon type that is unique from the rest of the game. It's a shame they were so rushed with that game because Super Form would work great in that game as modified version of his auras (faster, better jump, invincible but not invulnerable, not having immediate access to one of his super moves) except with Chaos Spears.
Actually in SA2 Battle, Shadow has CS because why do you think he has to go through all the effort to get it and Chaos Control back? Plus why do you think firearms are only available until that fight?
@@artistanthony1007 If you think Shadow's access to Chaos Spear in Adventure 2 is canonical then why do you think Knuckles doesn't just call down lightning whenever he feels like it?
In my opinion, the problem is that Super Sonic is wayyyy to op to make an actual boss fight. Think about it. your invincible, and the only way TOO die is if your rings run out, so the boss basically has to play a game of keep away. Its hard to make a challenging fight without making a level because Super Sonic is just far too fast
The thing is Super forms bestow VIRTUAL invulnerability, we know this with Shadow surviving that fall but not unphased and other moments with Super Shadow and other Super individuals.
Just so you know, Super Sonic was capable of Chaos Control, Super Sonic Power (Team Heroes Ability), Deflect, Super Sonic (That Special Combat ability in Sonc Chronicles The Dark Brotherhood), Gravity Control, Gravity Dive and Meteor Burst, it wasnt always about the Boost then there's his ability to serve Zig Zag Tennis Balls.
@@arkhamknight620 That Super Sonic ability has him fire destructive streams of energy that he ends off sort of like Shadow's Chaos Spear, that's why I say it should return in Fronteirs.
@@artistanthony1007 You know, it would be cool if instead of slamming his face into the titans like he does nearly every other time, he uses his fighting style and chaos powers.
@@arkhamknight620 Yeah and honestly I want the boss fights to be like Darkspine Sonic Vs Alf-Layla-Wa-Layla especially with emotional moments and alot of struggle with it but honestly, I want there to be risks with the final boss and something truly impactful because Devil Doom, Solaris and every other Final Boss feel that, that includes the dialogue and the VAs actually show pain like in Devil Doom a few minutes in and distress, even Jason Griffith really made an authentic yell right when Chip/Light Gaia got killed and everything in the Meta Era just....is so weak and not compelling or urgent especially Time Eater, I hate it so much and nothing serious happens in the fight, you just chase the Final Boss and it'll never stop which is why I will never come back to it but others I will, heck I just replayed Unleashed a few months ago and it still holds up, I still feel hype and the level of quality in the Perfect Dark Gaia fight.
I think to fix SA2's final boss fight they should add a rail to attack a energy core and then have the zit popping part happen after the biolizard is separated from it's life support system
![Run Away - Tzuyu(TWICE) ツウィ 쯔위 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 240906](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KnHNNyAYiu0/mqdefault.jpg)
What would be your ideal Super Sonic final boss fight? Personally, I think these fights are pretty underwhelming and would change a lot about them.
Also, thank you for Likewise TV for sponsoring this video! Try out Likewise TV for free! Bundle all of your streaming services together in one convenient hub: on.likewise.com/chaomix
I think that a multi-step final boss could work: you fly around the gargantuan boss (I'm thinking of a creature that's only not bigger than Dark Gaia) looking for a weak spot then hit it. The more you hit, the more desperate it gets and the harder it is to find the next weak spot
everytime I see titles of your videos I think that when watching them I will get mad but you give pretty solid points most of the time
Super sonic flying through chunks of every normal level in the game to build up enough speed to defeat the boss in one hit. (Think a better end of the world from 06)
I would like a super sonic boss fight where you go so fast and dodge the attacks of the enemy and I also wish they would bring more new abilities to super sonic in the games.
A boss fight that mixes the base but enhanced abilities of sonic (with a few extra ones) in an actual level, except shorter, and a flight mechanic less bland than white bread. Great music but that's expected. Cinematic with very few cutscenes.
As for a fight with multiple super characters. Same thing but with more levels, probably one per character. And for the flight sections, let us switch up between them.
I'm thinking that for flight segments you should be able to use all his moves in a new way, if its a spindash it should launch you in a direction, but you can't stop it once goes and you have to charge it up, which takes a bit, that way the air dash still has validity, but it can do more damage if you hit it at a higher speed (just so you're rewarded for getting close). A sidestep that instead is a dodge in any direction. The boost is the boost, no drift bc that doesn't make sense. Obviously there are a lot of moves but I really don't feel like putting em all here
Breaking up with Nick, chaomix is now my best friend
@@errorstudioz I guess it’s because the video is 40+ mins old, it just came out
HUH, PLOT TWIST, DA DA DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
@@b0xE_ You need help bro?😂
Aren't you the guy who made an essay regarding super sonic on Sonic's 30th Anniversary
Isn't your name Nick , I am confused right now ?
Chaomix ranking abilities: *Puts Super Sonic in S tier*
Also Chaomix: Super Sonic is lame
@Omega Zj That's some xenoblade shit right there
@@Ollie.H-23 Yeah, say that the next time you find yourself in a pickle that you got yourself in...
@@RosheenQuynh exactly
@@Ollie.H-23 No, you'll be wishing you trusted someone.
@@RosheenQuynh but you can't trust anyone
welp this aged like milk
the Frontiers Super Sonic boss fights were badass
Facts. Knight was the best one
Uh, no they're bad. And the music is more edgy then Infinite from Forces.
@@FluffalKyurem cope
@@FluffalKyurem dude literally spawned it just to be a troll XD
@@FluffalKyurem that’s your opinion.
Super Sonic is a cool completion reward and he offers a cool ending to the games he fought the final bosses in. I like him. I kinda missed him being involved in the stories since the meta era started.
I do think that the forms from the storybook games were cooler though.
I guess that's related to the Chaos Emeralds too being left aside during most of the meta era.
I hope Sonic Frontiers brings back Super Sonic Final boss fight, I miss it
@@maxflare6257 same! Judging by the leaks Super Sonic might play an important role in Sonic Frontiers. So I hope they're true!
@@inendlesspain4724 yeah. It's a shame because the chaos emeralds are cool and offer some nice lore to the series.
I get Exalibur, but Darkspine???
He is literally an edgy recolour.
Colors not letting Super Sonic use Wisps was such a letdown, when I played I was expecting enhanced versions of the powerups. Also the lack of Double Jump
Regarding the lack of a double jump, I think Colors just combines both jumps into one big one.
@@SuperZombieBros Colors(DS)Didn't even Have Super Sonic!Just The Infinite Boost Cheat!Sonic Battle's Final Boss,Ultimate Emerl,Is The Best Iteration Of Super Sonic!The Ultimate Skills Of Awakened Emerl Are All Enhanced Versions Of Sonic's Moves!Eggman Is Even Cheaper than That!He Can Kill 3 Uber Emerls EASILY!
@@chimuoma390 DS had a Super Sonic fight as an alternative
@@SuperZombieBros Utterly defeating what a double jump is for: finer control.
SS was clearly an afterthought compared to the rest of the game. Bleh.
Damn they REALLY delivered with frontiers
Sure did.
In all honesty, Super Sonic needs more abilities. I remember when Sonic had the blue tornado and whirlwind ability in the early 2000’s. Imagine that, but x10 the power and an atomic blast that’s similar to Shadow’s Chaos blast! If we can get this in the future, it’d be great!
In Sonic Chronicles (which is now non-canon) Super Sonic could give off golden fireballs, chain all his base form abilities together (spin dash, homing attack, axel kick, etc) and straight up shoot a large chaos energy blast.
A shame the fight was lame AF since you could end it in a single turn pretty easily then again Super Sonic being broken makes sense too.
@@lynxfresh5214 Yes
@@lynxfresh5214 Actually that game is canon. The devs of the game said that it was made to expand *Game Sonic lore.*
@@arkhamknight620 The new Sonic lorebook published by Sega and written by Ian Flynn confirms that Sonic Chronicles is now non-canon.
Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the last fans to take Sega's word at face value but since it was stated in an official Sonic product rather than in some vague or obscure interview it does give the statement some value.
@@lynxfresh5214 And why is it even in the book if it’s non canon? I never saw a single statement on the guidebook about that.
Plus higher up people have actually debunked that.
Maybe they should have had Super Sonic actually feel like a Chaos powered Super form I mean take the Archie Comics for example Super Sonic was able to shoot beams of energy with some of it being a weird chaos control beam, the regular chaos control, intangibility and even create force fields. The Fleetway comics gave Super Sonic the ability to absorb chaos energy from other people and shoot awesome laser beams from his eyes. Hell even Sonic Chronicles actually tried to give Super Sonic a more unique moveset sure it was kinda automatic but it really gave us a reason to call Super Sonic well SUPER SONIC. Why does external Sonic media always make Super Sonic look a lot cooler than the games?
I think you kinda answered your own question "external media" isn't directly tied down by Sega like the core games and thus have more creativity to do more with the Sonic brand (I mean Movie Sonic has a mom).
And before someone brings up the obvious, yes too much creative freedom is also a detriment hence the whole Ken Penders debacle.
@@lynxfresh5214 here's something nearly canon: in s3&k, super sonic was originally going to be able to fire rings (which is why super mecha sonic does so)
@@lynxfresh5214 Ken Penders's problem wasn't that he had too much creative freedom, it was that he was a terrible writer and that he kept his job for as long as he did due to nepotism. Combine that with Sega and Archie Comics being awful at handling legal issues which led to Penders winning in the end.
Man, the Sonic series truly is cursed.
@@inendlesspain4724 yup. Fuck Ken Panders. He’s also the reason why we can’t see Scourge, Sally or the Freedom fighters
@@donathan2933 technically Sega can still use the freedom fighters. They don’t want to anymore
Id love a fight between two super forms. Introduce a character that can use the emeralds just like Sonic can.
Super Sonic Vs Super Blaze
Shadow and blaze
Sonic X did it with Super Sonic vs Super Shadow. Too bad it lasts like 3 minutes
I mean Metal Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Knuckles, Tails, etc have all shown to be able use the emeralds (Plus Blaze too with her Sol Emeralds).
It's pretty strange we haven't had a fight between super forms in the games yet comics as well as animation have already done it ages ago.
Super Ix says hi
Alright man, I came back to this video just to tell you that, you don’t have worry anymore. They made him lit as hell.
I think Unleashed did it right, it truly felt like a spectacle watching the full final boss play out from the start as the Gaia Colossal to the final blow as Super Sonic.
It's actually my favorite boss battle of Sonic. :)
Yea Base Sonic can be a bit more fun to use as he has a variety of moves to use. And those Final Boss battles should have an equal amount of hype. A piece of uniqueness is welcome, but it should still be very exciting and not something bare bones.
Frontiers Super Sonic boss fights
“Super Sonic is Super Lame”
The Sonic Frontiers boss segments:
If you ask me, if the boss fights are truly going to utilize Super Sonic, it's best to give some abilities and possibly some quick time events. Doing the same thing over and over again by spin jumping onto the enemy's weakness has been tried and true.
Nice
Good news, Sonic Frontiers does something very similar to this
I immediately thought of this video when the first Super Sonic segment came up in Sonic Frontiers because... Well, I won't spoil it. Let's just say I think they did a lot of things this video suggests
8:40 The way I see it, that's EXACTLY why Super Sonic is better. Base Sonic needs a whole ton of moves to succeed, while Super Sonic just needs to do basic stuff like running and jumping 'cause he's just this freakin' godlike. Hell, the very fact that he effing dies when he reverts back to base form in the Super bossfights should be a dead giveaway that Super is super(ior)
But all Base Sonic even does is homing attack lol. Yeah sometimes he does something else but he never really does much either.
This
The argument in itself is redundent and mentally challenged. Spin Dash is only effective against the ground because of friction and momentum, in flight it has no use and especially in areas where flight is the only relevant solution, and the super form does not stop Sonic from using it at all. The effectiveness should be tripled even with every other moves in his arsenal.
@@arkhamknight620 False, Sonic done 50+ things over the years, 1 ability he has or had includes Flame Step which involves him performing a quick double backflip using his one hand and whatnot, shame Sonic & the Secret Rings got terrible reviews because none of those moves will return.
@@artistanthony1007 I mean the newer games.
All of that is unlock able skill sets, the base combat capability for Sonic is just homing attack or jump, which is boring.
Sonic now is just boost and homing attack, oh and occasionally you'll use the pointless light speed dash.
Super sonic after watching this video: "Super lame!? Oh I'll show you super lame!"
*continues to glass a giant titan on starfall islands*
While I don’t think any of these bosses are “bad” I do think that they should have a bit more to them, the gameplay in the super fights from sa1-unleashed/black knight are all pretty good-great.
I would have these bosses be extremely cinematic, with lots of different phases of attacks from the boss and different ways to attack the boss.
I would also give super sonic the ability to attack from the ground with sonics base form moves but enhanced. Then when in air you would have different types of attacks like chaos abilities and some form of dodge. I would also make the fights MUCH longer, at least 5 minutes.
I wouldn't make a last final boss fight 5 minutes long unless it was dynamic enough
@@Ultimatedogfan final bosses in most games last 5-7 minutes
@@ykgcaramel6515 Yes, but I said unless it's dynamic enough, which is very important
Unwiished had an enhanced Quick Step which is a form of a move dubbed Turbo Boost which the Dash move in 06 also is.
I suppose my ideal Super Sonic Boss Fight would be a sort of mix of what we've gotten. A large level, but also a flying boss. So imagine this:
You are put into a large open arena, with platforms, pits, hazards and structures and just general good level design, with the boss flying around. You need to make good use of the level design such as slopes, ramps, and walls to get up to the boss so that you can hit him. (You can fly at will during this phase, but it's not required) For the second phase, the boss destroys the arena, leaving a massive pit that you need to now fly to stay out of. You'd still have full control of Sonic's moveset, just now you're flying (Similar to Heroes, but you can ascend and descend at will). For this phase, the Boss's weakpoints could be physically inside him, so you need to fly around him, avoiding his attacks, until you find the opening. Then you go through a short, forward moving level (similar to Sonic Unleashed's Dark Gaia Phase One) where you need enough speed to even reach the weakpoint to damage it. If you hit the weakpoint (or if you fail) you are then spat back out to resume the fight (or to try again). A successful hit gives you some rings, whereas a failed hit just doesn't do anything but waste precious time. The final phase would then have the boss's weakpoints be on the outside, but he becomes more aggressive, flinging more attacks and projectiles. You can fly around him and hit the weakpoints directly, OR you can gain enough speed to reflect his projectiles back at him, or deflect his massive physical attacks, stunning him for a moment so you can hit the weakpoint itself and deal further damage.
This is more ideal for a Colossal Boss rather than a direct character battle like say, Super Shadow (or Infinite if they ever bring him back)
Sure he's super lame *now*, but he *can* be really freaking cool.
Imagine something like Doomsday in 3D.
You mean unleashed first half?
@@demigodstudios Yeah man
Thats pretty much the Generations final boss
I have to say, in all the games where I've played as super sonic as the final boss, it isn't usually one of my favourites. For Unleashed and Generations, their final bosses are probably my least favourite in their respective games. They often involve a lot of just boosting for a while until you hit the weak point, and it is often kinda boring/frustrating.
I think the fact that they often a completely different moveset means that you have to deal with a brand new control scheme that is only used once, instead of having a battle that tests the player's grasp of the moveset that they have been using for the entire game. Sonic colours final boss, while pretty easy, has you use more of your regular moveset to avoid attacks and catch up to eggman, which makes it a much more enjoyable boss fight.
To make a super sonic fight more fun, they should probably make the moveset for his super form more similar to his regular form, but enhanced slightly to make him feel "super".
Some mfkers be saying "aged like milk" when litteraly it hasnt, chaomix was right it was lame and sonic frontiers actually seem to take into consideration of what was said in the video, a build up on the base of sonic and then some, which is exactly what happened in frontiers
You actually haven’t even played sonic frontiers
@WakerOfTheSky204, so you claim i haven't played a game there for my entire argument gets thrown out the window, very epic coolio
@@carlosmunoz6952 took you 2 months to reply smh
@@WakerOfTheSkyWell who cares how long it takes someone to rely? Grow a pair
I think it would be cooler if he unlocked Super Sonic during the fight, and not before. It would have the same effect as playing him in regular levels. Make the fight possible with Sonic and if you’re good enough, you can get the final hits easily with an enhanced moveset
Honestly my actual favorite super endgame boss fight is Devil Doom in Shadow. It felt decently challenging and empowering at the same time. Introduced a choas spear ability that can be charged and some level of strategy to the fight as managing your ring count is real tricky.
And it's preceded by an actual level where you have to make use of choas control in order to make it in time.
I've thought about how I would direct a game and I think it would be best to start the game in a super sonic boss fight. Like unleashed but playable. Then that way, it builds intrigue as to how the game will finish. I think a 3d burning blaze or more fleshed out Silver would be cool. Any other suggestions?
The idea of starting a game by giving you a taste of being OP before taking it away and teasing you with being able to get it back as a reward is definitely a good idea.
@@MegaGlassguy A Fan-Game made by a guy named Noah Copeland which is a remake of an Game Gear Sonic game named Triple Trouble already kind of does that.
Metroid Prime sorta does that in the opening sequence onboard the Frigate Orpheon and it works pretty well there, so yeah, an already existing game can back up that that's a good idea.
This video kinda aged badly lol, but Sonic Frontiers thankfully fixed this problem. It gave us the best boss battles and best Super Sonic in the franchise
It's almost like the forget all the powers he has
Chaos beams
Chaos spears
Teleportation
Time manipulation
Opening up portals
Energy negation
And charging up physical attack with energy
That beam attack with the combination of attacks and a few other energy stuff in Chronicles desperately needs to return especially in Fronteirs.
Sonic After the Sequel, fan game or not, has a pretty damn good Super Sonic level/fight.
Something like that but enhanced would be great.
Sonic Frontiers: ''hold my beer watch this shit''
I also feel that Sonic stories would be more interesting if they properly escalated the tension to higher levels in these stories that didn't feature super sonic.
I appreciate that recent games haven't used super sonic as much, but the stories haven't felt like they built up the stakes and conflict enough. Nor has it involved enough of the other characters, nor has it felt like the boss has required it's own massive effort or planning to face. The lack of chaos emeralds and super sonic is a storytelling opportunity, but I don't think they've truly taken advantage of the removal of this "crutch" as it were.
(Also, they kind of need to explain why the chaos emeralds aren't involved in the stories. Maybe if they made the effort to portray the emeralds as being REALLY HARD to find. To the point that both the Sonic heroes, and Eggman have trouble obtaining them.)
I'd really love to see a huge, perfect chaos, continental/world ending-level threat that is properly built up throughout the story in the same way that 1998-2008 level final bosses were, that requires the characters to join forces and come up with a unique plan of attack in order to defeat them.
I'd love for some kind of monster or demigod or super dimensional being the power level of the final hazard/perfect chaos/dark gaia that requires sonic, shadow, silver, blaze and other characters to work together to defeat. Not using the chaos emeralds or the sol emeralds and facing these seemingly impossible odds themselves.
Of course, I'd still like to have the emeralds involved. It's not like I never want a super sonic final boss again, but I'd prefer that they mix it up more and make the end of the game more unpredictable.
I've always thought it'd be cool if the chaos emeralds we're collected over the course of multiple games, so we have to keep track of who has each one, and the super sonic boss is a payoff after 2-3 games building up to it.
And if they wanted to give us super forms playable in regular levels, that could be a (non-canon) feature that is achieved by collecting all the red rings or getting all a ranks or something like that.
The stakes are much more real if the danger feels insurmountable. If the super sonic boss is how it ends every time, then nothing feels dangerous. Is super sonic isn't present, the only thing missing is to truly build up the danger and anxiousness of the story.
What do all of you think?
The best part of this video is how the thumbnail somehow predicted the Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog
u could say it was foreshadowing
Chaomix: Super Sonic is Super lame.
My unpopular opinion: Super tails is underrated.
Really!? Most folks I know actually love Super Tails and there are even memes about Tails having the most broken super form of them all thanks to his...
FLICKY ARMY OF DEATH!
@@lynxfresh5214 I mean to be truthful, Tails only had 2 super appearances, that appears in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and Sonic Mania, but aside from mods for various games, yeah, he would be popular.
Super sonic isn't lame in sa2 and the classic games but in sonic forces he is lame because he's just sonic but with an unlimited boost
He is in general lame bc almost all of the bosses that super sonic has follow a similar path
Shit not anymore after I saw the shit SS pulled in Frontiers
Bro I think you got your wish from frontiers.
Funny watching this now that sonic frontiers is out
Hey chaomix can you do a Video about why Sega and Sonic Team are ignoring Cream the Rabbit,she's the Kindness Character in the entire Franchise including Vanilla the Rabbit that delivers alot of love and attention in the Games.
I think it would be cool to have a Super Sonic boss fight where it's this 3D level where you switch from "running" to flying for certain parts as the boss moves the platforms to trip Sonic up. Then when Sonic gets close he can dodge the bosses combat attacks and retaliate with a well timed homing attack. Rinse and repeat with it getting progressively harder each time till the boss is defeated.
Getting super sonic in any game where you don’t get them in the story are always annoying , making you replay levels over and over , when you unlock a level you should just get unlimited access to special stages, it doesn’t up play time it makes me want to play less
Sonic Advance 2 is looking very guilty all of a sudden.
I honestly always thought the worst part about Super Sonic was how unspecial he can feel. Sure in a gameplay sense, it can be cool to control Super Sonic in normal levels but it just makes the form feel so standard and not like Sonic's ultimate form used in the most dangerous situations. I do agree that the boss battles with Super Sonic could feel a bit more unique though. Flying around is cool and all but if that's all you do and it's less than your base form, it's lame.
we need lore accurate gameplay with stylish quick time events and some hack and slash mechanics
FRONTIERS BABY
Honestly, Imagine having a Super Sonic with all of Sonic’s less utilized skills super charged. For example, maybe you can use Sonic Wind in normal gameplay to stun enemies, but when your super you can use SUPER SONIC WIND which was one-shot robots and damage the boss.
This aged like milk
Good
lmao
It’s honestly surreal coming back to this video after Frontiers finally made Super Sonic cool again.
Now I see why they’ve stopped using Super Sonic boss fights recently.
I feel Super Sonic should stay as a reward and not be implemented into the stories too much. Sure the chaos emeralds themselves can be used for story, but not the characters relying on getting them to turn Sonic into super Sonic.
Even if there was a final battle as SS, they should definitely give him more to do. You’re practically invincible and even faster now, there’s gotta be *something* fun they could think of making Sonic do other than slowly float towards the enemy. It’s gotta make you say “man, I wish I could play like that all the time”
He should be able to throw chaos spears and shit. Or like just some cool new move he can only do in his super form Like teleporting
@@jaymyster7463 he definitely needs more movement options. Maybe get rid of his ability to fly. Not entirely tho, just so he still has gravity. I feel like him being able to fly really limits what he can do movement-wise
I think the Chaos Emeralds can still be used for the story, but if they are they need to harken back to S3 & K, Rush and other games with hidden collectables where you're rewarded for exploring and conquering those extra challenges with the true final boss and ending.
@@jaymyster7463 He has an ability in the final boss of Chronicles which while not Spears, they're Streams of destructive energy but that move is non-canon unfortunately.
Man watching this after playing sonic frontiers and seeing Super Sonic cut a giant knight in half and throw a giant wyvern is just insane💀
Sonic frontiers really made super sonic cool again.
Not anymore!!!
ITS TIME TO FACE YOUR FEARS!!!!
FOR WHEN YOUR TIME HAS COME AND GOOOOONE!
ILL BE THE ONE TO CARRY OOOOOOOOOON (ON)
AND YOU CAN THROW ME TO THE WOOOOOOLVES!
@@SuperSaiyanD48 CAUSE I AM *UN-DE-FEA-TABLE* (ble)
I don’t know, the simplicity of it never really bothered me. To me, the fact that all Super Sonic had to do was fly at the speed of light to obliterate enemies was awesome. If he was just sonic with an upgrade it wouldn’t feel as interesting. Frankly, playing as him in regular levels just makes him feel less special. I wouldn’t mind if he was utilized in longer stages of his own though, that would be cool. Making him just almost uncontrollably fast could be interesting and emphasize his speed in that form.
Hopefully with Frontiers we can roam around/Maybe fly with Super Sonic since boss battles with him will be a normal occurrence!
Well. Not anymore.
Super Sonic: BALDY MC. NOSEHAIR! FRIEND! HELP ME!!
Eggman: Long live the king!
Super Sonic: AHHHHHHH
Tails: no.
Bill Cipher: no.
And then Sonic Frontiers came knocking
Thank God frontiers is starting to fix that
This is why we need hyper sonic back
I dont think Hyper Sonic would make much of a difference as he completely invalidates Super Sonic. The super forms need more fleshing out before we start uping power levels. Cause that can lead to power creep which can be avoided by real positives and real consequences. Different reasons to use said forms.
@@justcallmekai1554 true...
And only to make DB fans angry
Well it looks like they took your advice for Frontiers. XD. I won’t spoil anything but the leaked footage of the fight was certainly stunning.
Chaos Emeralds in Sonic 1: “What are the powers of these things?”
Chaos Emeralds in Sonic 2: “This power is incredible! But…. I didn’t use it in a final boss fight!”
Super Emeralds in Sonic 3 And Knuckles: “I finally can use a form in a final boss fight and it’s stronger than what I ever imagined possible! I’ve grown so much!”
Chaos Emeralds in the Modern Sonic Games: “Ha ha power form go BRRRRR!”
One thing that SEGA made clear: Super Tails and Super Knuckles will never return. That’s because only hedgehogs can use Super Forms according to SEGA. Super Forms and Hyper Forms are what make the Classic Games better than the Modern ones. There hasn’t been a single Sonic Game that’s topped the Trilogy for me, mostly Sonic 3 And Knuckles.
Super Amy when?
Winch is a slap in the face 🤦🏻♂️
The way I feel about it is that it was cool as something you could unlock and play the game with... It became lame as soon as it became the "Secret" ending arc every time.
The crazy thing about unleashed, is the wii has a better last boss fight than the 360, but the rest of the game on the wii is trash
Sonic looks like he got knocked out, on the thumb nail. Like how on Family Guy someone just falls straight on the floor
You hit the nail on the head, Chaomix. This really made me think about why some final bosses work and some don't for Super Sonic. When I really count which final bosses feel properly designed, I only come to 3Kz Adventure, and maybe Unleashed for main series. Super Sonic just isn't fun to play as in these final boss encounters. He doesn't feel super at all.
Update since November : Super Sonic is no longer lame
I'm just watching this video for the first time, and... Now that it's been out for a bit, I have to say that I think Frontiers has handled Super Sonic boss fights the best, by far. Spectacle is still a major focus (which is an okay thing, in my opinion), but that's coupled with him actually *feeling* like a suped-up version of his base form with enhanced abilities and even some new moves (though mostly in the form of his parries). It's just a solid and well-done implementation that I genuinely hope they continue to take into consideration for future games. Frontiers is pretty neat.
"SUPER SONIC BABBBYYYYY" is one of my favorite quotes from you
I agree with your points. I feel like Sega also knew this as well. Since now in Sonic Frontiers when becoming Super Sonic you get to use his abilities on multiple bosses the titans. There will be a skill tree for Sonic and most likely for Super Sonic as well. So we could see everything about Super Sonic's gameplay change in that game
Super sonic just uses sonics skill tree but upgraded in his super form, it still has the best boss fights in the entire series
Sucks that Mania didn't follow through with Super Sonic Stage
Care to explain that, muchacho?
@@bigmacsama Most of Egg Reverie Zone was actually unused, you can actually find the whole stage still in Maina's files implying it was ment to be a full on stage with far greater scope than what we actually got.
At least that's what I think RisingRevolt is commenting about.
This video was GREAT.. Buuuuut... The Thumbnail brought me the most joy 🤍
Sonic Frontiers really made Super Sonic cool again. They literately made him Super Sayian 3 Goku from Dragon Ball Z, which is extremely fitting since Super Sonic is a reference to Super Sayian. So, why not commit fully to that?
This aged like fine milk luckily, which isn’t bad btw
SEGA saw this, you were the one to change SS Boss fights in Frontiers
@chaomix:
For me, Super Sonic’s move pool being extremely limited compared to Regular Sonic’s move pool isn’t really something I take issue with; Largely because being able to fly freely around the stage without having to worry about incoming obstacles outright *supersedes* any advantages Sonic’s regular move pool could have, but also because it’s something of a trade-off that the player only pursues at their own discretion; You’re actively choosing to trade out your large variety of specialized, physics-based moves for one or two highly versatile moves that can do everything the regular moves could do, but without being constrained by physics.
That being said, I do agree that Super Sonic boss fights could stand to have some better level design (or at the very least, better mechanical design).
For example, why not have a boss fight that’s literally just an entire Eggman-conquered planet? That way, you can forgo the need for a formal boss fight entirely, and have the whole planet act as a giant, mechanical death trap that regular Sonic wouldn’t be able to get through without help.
Actually, that’s another thing point as to why Super Sonic boss fights (and boss fights in Sonic games in general) tend to be so lacking: When literally every boss fight with Eggman amounts to facing down yet another two-legged mech (or other vaguely bipedal-shaped creature), you end up with designs that require players to dispatch them in the exact same manner as you would any regular Badnik.
…Which brings me to my other point I briefly mentioned earlier: If SEGA and Sonic Team are still gonna insist on having more straightforward, formal boss fights for Super Sonic, then they need to seriously expand the mechanical depth within said boss fights.
In other words, make it so that hitting the Boss repeatedly doesn’t just amount to whacking the cockpit of Eggman’s giant machines over and over again; Eggman’s machines should have certain parts that deal out extremely specialized attacks, that make us prioritize which attacks we wanna deal with first. Then there should be weak points on those parts that:
A) Are based on timing your attack.
B) Involve moving Super Sonic around to a specific point on the machine.
C) Require meeting some sort of sub-goal to expose the weak point/render it vulnerable to damage.
Sonic frontiers fixed the the problem and made it way too good
Good thing they followed your advice. The combat in frontiers is not super ultra perfect, but Super used the same combos but better and flashier, and it was the best Super Sonic experience I ever had
This video aged like milk
1:32 there you are.
Lmao appreciate the skip
@@finalhazard247 😉😁
Hyper Sonic matters. Remember the Super Sonic fight from Sonic 3 & Knuckles? That was Hyper Sonic, and that form hasn't been seen since. We've only had one Hyper Sonic fight, and Doomsday Zone is one of the best final levels in the franchise.
The 2nd person that knows that its hyper not super finally
The most dissapointing one was, honestly, Sonic Advance 1's Super boss. All that cool transition after defeating Eggman in the X-Zone, with Super Sonic flying to the moon (no pun intended)...
...And then a boss that you can defeat, without too much effort, in less than 40 seconds.
Finally! Everyone says "I miss Super Sonic on those epic boss fights" and always focuses on the merely superficial aspects of that
Thats because thats what it is. A spectacle. And i have no problem with that
Umm what? I talked about how Super Sonic has Chaos Control, his unique ability sharing his name in Chronicles and Gravity Control, Gravity Dive & Meteor Burst.
@@artistanthony1007 Your comment makes no sense, since I wasn't answering to anything in the first place
"The problem is I'm actually struggling to think of any of these final boss battles that truely blew me away."
*cut to Sonic Frontiers vs. Giganto, Wyvern, and Knight *
I like the ideas for making Super Sonic more dynamic, but for the most part I think this is the first time I've totally disagreed on a take. I actually find the "playable in level" Super Sonic rather boring. (And don't even get me started on how annoying the Super Sonic music in the classic games is). It's just turning on permanent invincibility and speed shoes on for most games, which isn't terribly exciting for me. I much prefer a cool Super Sonic final boss, and it's something I think more recent games have been worse for. I even disagree and I would say most of them are fun to great, with the only exception being poor Generations.
That being said, I think your ideas are cool and could make for some interesting final bosses in the future.
Ohhhh, how much I disagree with your take, bud. I personally prefer having Super Sonic in the levels itself rather than just the final bosses. Specially after beating the special stages. I like plowing through everything and being almost unbeatable (save for environmental hazards like drowning, crushing and falling to the void). Just playing it at the end of game feels lame.
This is at least one you can credit the meta era games for doing well.
I also somewhat disagree with this take, Maybe in the modern games i agree, but in all the classic games (Sonic 4 included), especially Sonic 2, Super Sonic is more of a challenge really. The levels in Sonic 2 and 3 weren't designed for Super/Hyper Sonics ridiculous speed, so he ends up speeding too hard off into bottomless pits or getting crushed, or losing your rings so you're now at 0 and you're open for attack. Or the worst one which is you're at a boss or the final boss (Sonic 3) and you run out of rings and then you die, so now you have to fight the final boss with no rings at all. Its still super interesting and not easy cause Super sonic is a challenge to control. The music is super annoying tho, ill give you that. The Super Sonic boss fights, for me, are overused and stale. Especially with how they're handled. The classic games did them right, others like Unleashed just had awful controls for the Xbox, and the Wiis version is just boring all together. Maybe if they handle it better in the future, ill change my mind about this.
@@alanbareiro6806 I must respectfully disagree with the meta era games as a whole doing it well.
For one, Colors only gives you Super Sonic after 100% the entire game. Not just beating special stages, but digging through every scrap and corner of the game to do everything, at which point the idea of being invincible with unlimited boost feels uninteresting and wasted since at that point you've already seen everything the game has to offer. And furthermore, because of Colors' design relying on the wisps, many levels have to be re-adapted into letting you skip entire sections if you wish to play as Super Sonic, making it feel even more pointless because it only highlights that this game was not designed with Super Sonic in mind. Heck in some levels you won't be able to get enough rings to use him.
When it comes to Generations, Classic Super is functional but has always lacked in the speed and jump department for me. He just feels like an invincible cheat without any real oomph behind it. And for Modern I don't know if it's just me but I always found that for some reason jumping while boosting doesn't seem to work at times, resulting in a lot of frustration rather than a joyful power trip. Not to mention he too feels underwhelming due to the little improvement it provides and is more of an infinite boost cheat.
In Forces, ignoring the shameful monetization of a staple in the series, not only is there again little improvement when Super but it hardly feels worth it because of how small and restricted the levels are and how little of a difference the super state really does to waltzing through everything. Of course this is more of a fundamental issue with the game design itself but the fact remains that being Super does not feel special.
Lost World I will give some credit, does at least make it fun but is also held down by the 100% requirement, at least on the Wii U version.
And of course Mania, needless to say, nails it down to a T. But it's still only 2 games that I would consider to have done it well this decade.
@@MegaGlassguy I was referring more to the fact that those games have a playable Super Sonic. Now the execution on those games is lackluster I agree, but I still rather take them than not having it at all.
Although I think that special stages are something that needs to return to the franchise.
@@alanbareiro6806 Eh, I must disagree with the idea that having them being done poorly is better than not having them because to me, that is exactly what gives ammunition to the idea that it's not a good feature. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be an option in future games, but it's hard to blame people for not caring about it when it is lackluster in your own words. It's the same thing when it comes to people saying they want their favorite character in whatever game comes next even if they'd serve no purpose, or those defending the fact that we now have 3 games that recycle the same final boss saying that it's better that than the final boss not being Eggman. We're placing the cart before the horse and compromising quality in exchange of having a feature that is only there for the sake of being there. Ideally there should be no need for an ultimatum about this subject as it should be possible to be done well in all games, but I personally would much rather not have Super Sonic playable in every game if every time he does appear as an unlockable, it feels special and fun rather than a boring, glorified cheat.
Well thank God for frontiers, I think Sega knew deep down that super sonic was a little underwhelming
And then Frontiers happened😏
my idea:
in a open zone (smaller starfall island), the boss is standing before you, and as you are super sonic, you chase him down as he flee from you (straight platformer-like phase) and when you finally hit him, it hit's you back, making you lose your chaos emeralds, you then have to get back the gems scatered on the open-zone to become super again, make sure you also get rings too, you won't get any in super form.
Rince and repeat 3 times to get to the second phase, the boss steals some emeralds from you and gets buffed, now being just a buffed sonic, you run after him in the open-zone filled with obstacles to block you, when you reach the boss, you'll have to nearly doge the atacks it smaks you with, just so you can combo it and steal back the emeralds from him and turn super right in it's face, which gives big damage.
final phase, the boss has gonne mad, reatreat back and unleash an apocallypse thingy, you hurry as time runs out and get him with your best super combos, mooving back the doomsday time limit each time.
After 5 recoils, you rush him at the speed of light and zip back and forth agressively until you do a light explosion !
and it's over
you defeated the boss
roll credits
Between this thumbnail and your "Wisp Grabbing" Art this is no longer mere coincidence. You should sue Sega for using your concept of Sonic doing the Family Guy death pose and get the rights to Super Sonic in the process.
How about bringing back the other super forms?
Sonic frontiers did us glory...
I really agree, Super Sonic bosses are kind of bland. (Reminds me of FNAF gameplay VS FNAF lore…Sonic lore carries a lot of opportunities)
My idea: some sort of huge death egg robot that stays on the ground while Sonic flying around in super form AND running around in normal form to weaken it, and it’s attacks can throw Super Sonic around and really hinder normal Sonic. Or hey, Super Sonic makes a path for himself to go through in normal form to attack the boss.
Think you got your wish with frontiers
I remember Sonic Adventure's Perfect Chaos was probably one of my first Super Sonic boss fights... He's also one of my LEAST favourites.
Did it bug anyone else that you start the fight listening to "Open Your Heart" and not at the end phase? Even from a story aspect it's really not up to snuff.
The story has a lot to do with the climactic appeal as you've said, but sadly these fights are, as you also said, incredibly barebones.
I don't mind the music change in that boss fight and it still can be pretty difficult.
You wanna know what's really lame, hyper sonic, my dude appears only in one game, and then just appears as mod form. Sega could explain me more about the super chaos emeralds and why do they even put It on sonic 3 and knuckles
Super sonic used to be a huge reward but now it’s just like: Ok I got super sonic….what now? Another boss?
Shadow The Hedgehog does a great Super Form, because it looks at one of the core mechanics, the shooty-shooty-pow-pow, and for the first time truly let's us use Chaos Spear ourselves.
As a charge-shot no less, an extremely satisfying weapon type that is unique from the rest of the game.
It's a shame they were so rushed with that game because Super Form would work great in that game as modified version of his auras (faster, better jump, invincible but not invulnerable, not having immediate access to one of his super moves) except with Chaos Spears.
Actually in SA2 Battle, Shadow has CS because why do you think he has to go through all the effort to get it and Chaos Control back? Plus why do you think firearms are only available until that fight?
@@artistanthony1007 If you think Shadow's access to Chaos Spear in Adventure 2 is canonical then why do you think Knuckles doesn't just call down lightning whenever he feels like it?
In my opinion, the problem is that Super Sonic is wayyyy to op to make an actual boss fight. Think about it. your invincible, and the only way TOO die is if your rings run out, so the boss basically has to play a game of keep away. Its hard to make a challenging fight without making a level because Super Sonic is just far too fast
The thing is Super forms bestow VIRTUAL invulnerability, we know this with Shadow surviving that fall but not unphased and other moments with Super Shadow and other Super individuals.
i think frontiers checked all but one of the boxes
Just so you know, Super Sonic was capable of Chaos Control, Super Sonic Power (Team Heroes Ability), Deflect, Super Sonic (That Special Combat ability in Sonc Chronicles The Dark Brotherhood), Gravity Control, Gravity Dive and Meteor Burst, it wasnt always about the Boost then there's his ability to serve Zig Zag Tennis Balls.
And if Sonic wanted to, he can probably use other chaos powers.
@@arkhamknight620 That Super Sonic ability has him fire destructive streams of energy that he ends off sort of like Shadow's Chaos Spear, that's why I say it should return in Fronteirs.
@@artistanthony1007 You know, it would be cool if instead of slamming his face into the titans like he does nearly every other time, he uses his fighting style and chaos powers.
@@arkhamknight620 Yeah and honestly I want the boss fights to be like Darkspine Sonic Vs Alf-Layla-Wa-Layla especially with emotional moments and alot of struggle with it but honestly, I want there to be risks with the final boss and something truly impactful because Devil Doom, Solaris and every other Final Boss feel that, that includes the dialogue and the VAs actually show pain like in Devil Doom a few minutes in and distress, even Jason Griffith really made an authentic yell right when Chip/Light Gaia got killed and everything in the Meta Era just....is so weak and not compelling or urgent especially Time Eater, I hate it so much and nothing serious happens in the fight, you just chase the Final Boss and it'll never stop which is why I will never come back to it but others I will, heck I just replayed Unleashed a few months ago and it still holds up, I still feel hype and the level of quality in the Perfect Dark Gaia fight.
I agree, it’s sad when only two (arguably three) boss fights made Super Sonic truly Super.
It would make destroying the godly bosses more awesome.
My Dream Super Sonic
Has a amazing story
Has amazing gameplay
Has a perfect design
Has amazing abilities
Feels Super
I think to fix SA2's final boss fight they should add a rail to attack a energy core and then have the zit popping part happen after the biolizard is separated from it's life support system