Solving the problem of horizontal lines in your resin prints!
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- Опубликовано: 7 апр 2020
- Don't worry there's barely any math inside!
Link to the RUclips channel for the great James Wappel, since I use a picture of one his incredible paint jobs! / @jameswappel7119 
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Any thoughts if adjusting the lift distance or speed may help with this issue?
Yes! I forgot to mention slowing lift speed is an option. OMG. My brain froze lol.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing...lift speed. So any rule of thumb....like try to decrease by 10 at a time?
@@WWQuicksilver no rule, just slower is better chance of avoiding the lines :)
Not sure if you guys gives a shit but if you are stoned like me atm then you can watch pretty much all of the new series on instaflixxer. I've been binge watching with my gf for the last few months :)
@Alessandro Asa Definitely, I have been using instaflixxer for years myself :D
8:17 "Thiccest part of the print"
lol and sure there is the comment xD
I "came" here to type this comment. TYFYS
that is indeed, the thiccest part of the print lol
Came to make the same comment, but saw you already had so I gave it a like. Then realized that my like would be the 70th like, so I unliked it to return it to 69.
In summary, to minimize the effect of horizontal lines, you can:
1. Orient your model to reduce the cross-sectional area (which in turn reduces the suction effect and the wobble);
2. Lower the lifting speed;
3. Add supports to places where there is a large cross-sectional area for better stability and less wobble;
4. Lower the viscosity of liquid resin by keeping it well-mixed and warm to reduce suction or choose a resin that's naturally of low viscosity.
Could you show adding supports to the model in Chitubox to correct the lines?
Thiccest part of the print
Hahahahaa
Love your stuff!! Only thing I would say is that you don't need to repeat yourself so much. Get to your reasons faster and you're Golden
I have learned more about my newest journey in 3d printing than I could have anywhere else. You really are a life saver. You break things down with simple science and common sense. I can't imagine doing any of this without you.
Thank you for the kind words! I'm truly just trying to help people! Never wanted to make a youtube channel lol.
Perfect explanation of suction forces, thank you, sir!
Yes the more you know... Thanks for the tips and pointers!
Thanks for the knowlege you have given me. I'm just now getting into resin printing after 3 years of FDM printing. I want to do detail models and this info makes me more confidant about printing with resin. I have the elegoo mars and I hope to have with that.
I've been using a tumbler to mix my resin. Without rocks of course. The bottle just sits on the rollers and spins. this stirs paint pretty well, too. But, the great thing is no tiny bubbles. Draw back is that it takes some time to actually mix so don't get in a big hurry. You can find these in almost any hobby shop.
Incredibly helpful, thank you!
Thanks my dude, I had this issue with my printer, you helped me a lot.
Having many of those lines currently. Will try to reduce the liftspeed and add some supports along the way. Thanks!
The slicer could be made much smarter to compensate for peal force. Instead of a fixed "lift speed" for the entire model, it could calculate the lift speed based on print surface on a given layer. I wish there were an open source slicer for SLA printing. As a professional software developer, I'd like to play with some changes that would potentially increase the print speed, but still prevent excessive suction force problems.
Perhaps its time for a hender slicer?
But seriously it would be great to have a open source option instead of possible chitu or lychee lock.
So easy to implement this 2x area = 10% lower speed etc. Please program this in somewhere :)
Good video and very important concept. Should have shown where you would have dropped some supports to help with that. I did notice this in some of my prints and often times the thickness of the support pillar help with this too. If they're too thin then its not stable enough. Printed a model that had this issue and just bumped up the support pillar thickness some and it was night and day for me.
This video is great! Thank you for the info!
Thank you, the temperature of the resin i've never actually looked into it and you helped me greatly, also i had to learn the thing of printing bases off the bed the hard way, bc i wasted tons of resin and 2 FEPs bc of it
The other big thing to consider is the moment arm from the contact surface to the _vertical_ part of the currently attached supports. (You sort of mention this late in the video.) If your supported area is off to the side of the currently printing area, you will tend to get much more flex. This can be a significant problem when you use lots of supports that are close to horizontal in some part of their runs. Your best bet is to make your supports as nearly vertical from base to contact point (or base to first contact point if you're using fans) as possible. Further, you don't want all your support contact points to come from the same vertical, because that can exacerbate problems; use another vertical support when you get "far" away from the first vertical for that surface.
So the simple takeaway is to go through the model slice by slice and see where the biggest area jump would be, maybe put a support or two at the furthest parts of that section?
its a bit humbling starting one of your new videos. every time i wonder briefly what im screwing up now lol. thanks so much for imparting your knowledge and common sense time and time again, i get better at this every time i watch.
@@alexmartin5073 look man, im a member of the artisans guild he does all the supports for as well as a fan. his advice has yet to fail me or many others. maybe you should take whatever personal grudge you have with him and find another place to vent it out. as far as the "community" your referring to im a part of it, as well as an awful lot of others who appreciate his insight, so speak for yourself, not the rest of us.
@@dallasadams7943 huh? it doesn't sound like he has a grudge, from my understanding he's learning every video.
@@user-ss6db7fq1y what the hell are you talking about? What grudge? Do you read english?
@@dallasadams7943 oh shit, you're the same person, my bad. i thought you were two different people lmao
Wow, that was so informative. I get these lines mostly on flat surfaces like a gun stock or the like. Ill keep in mind next time I print. Thank you as always for figuring these things out and helping us get the best out of our prints!
Out of all the places for that print to do that, it certainly picked the best spot. ;)
Or the worst spot, depending how look at it. :)
Good spot to show the problem, bad spot to have it, I guess :D
Thanks for the info. You have a video on light bleed or printing hinged like objects?
Good info. New to printing. New subscriber. Thanks.
I get this all the time, I've tried literally everything now except for a new printer.
very helpful, thank you
To me, it looks like the line appears right when the the far wing (nearest to her left hand) finishes printing. Could it be caused by the different distribution of the suction (among the 3 parts vs just 2)?
Very good video and crystal clear explanation on why horizontal lines appear. Could hollowing the model be another way to minimize horizontal lines? (since surface area will be smaller and there will be less suction effect)
I was wondering the same thing. It seems like that would be the easiest way to solve it unless you want a solid print 🤷♂️
Thank you for this video. Really good stuff. I am having an issue of my resin parts warping, especially on the edges of the print. They always curl upward around the edges. It is more pronounced when I'm printing using supports, and in some cases, the edges have actually pulled away from the supports. I'm not finding anyone else talking about this issue. Do you have this issue? Do you know what causes it? Do you have any videos regarding it? I would appreciate any help you could offer. Thanks so much!
I have a Phenom L and I usually hollow my prints to 2.5-3.0mm walls and super heavy supports and i still get lines, due to suction force.
Do you know what it is about the suction that causes the issue? Is it just deflecting the build plate in the Z axis, as if you "tapped" the mechanism mid-print? Or is there something more sneaky going on?
Also, I've heard some like to apply a dry PTFE spray to their FEP membrane to reduce the adhesive forces... have you ever tried this? Did you find it worked?
Just started getting these, every 1mm. Didn't change anything. Changed the FEP. I put lubricant on the FEP so there is no sticking.
Having a huge issue with lines currently, trying the supports to see what happens
Hey, have you figured out the problem(s)? I'm going to try the suggestions in this video, but if you've got anything else that helped, I would love to know.
@@TTTristan1 Did you?
@@ebanksstudios Hey sorry meant to reply earlier. I ended up getting a larger printer, and while I'm not certain that what I did with this new printer would fix my older printer's issues, I think it certainly would have helped. You might be doing all this already, but just in case:
First off, I leveled my printer bed on the FEP filament itself rather than printer paper or the leveling paper it comes with. This has fixed so many problems for me before that I'm honestly amazed it's not common practice and recommended by the company.
Second, I'm using Lychee slicer + it's paid upgrade that detects suction and hollow areas on your models, and automates support placement as much as possible.
Third, I calibrated my resin's UV exposure time with the Cones of Calibration stl. To do this, I had to make an enclosure out of two plastic tubs on top of each other, like the Gonk droid from Star Wars, to let me print indoors with a consistent temperature. Got a fan that runs in the middle of some air ducting to a window.
@@TTTristan1 Thanks, I'm getting a new printer soon, I use the Phrozen Sonic Mini 4k and it's just been contstant problems
So I don't have any horizontal lines but I'm having some problems with prints getting squashed for the first 1/8" or so in vertical height off the build plate. I'm seeing a .030" loss of height and visible ovaling of holes which are parallel to the buildplate because of this, but the rest of the part (after that first 1/8") prints accurately.
Could it be an issue with heating the resin too much before (in an oven to 30c) or during the print (with a heating band) or is it something else?
How do you test/ avoid this if say I was doing a large print that took up most of the build plate.
it sounds like this information needs to be directly mathed into a slicer.. and the inputs for the resin thickness etc.. so that on each slice it can calculate the minimum height it needs to pull to peel and the minimum amount of surface area for supports to keep it from breaking off. etc.. PER SLICE! instead of figureing the worst one by trial and error and then applyign that to all layers ( hugely increasing print time.. because of travel time ... this could also irectly affect model position and support generation .. could revolutionise resin printing because time is $$!...
also it could reduce the time per layer waiting for resin to flow back to the printed areas if theres alot of small bits versus a large bit.. ..
You mentioned the viscosity of the resin. Is that an easy to spot # on resin bottles or does it generally go with the color or ?
no easy way to tell, sometimes manufacturer will tell you what they think, but warmer temp equals lower viscosity for all resins :)
I am getting this kind of lines in a regular pattern. I notice them when I am painting the models.
They are really small lines that seem to be all at the same distance from each other. Almost as if I could see , and feel with the brush each sliced layer.
Is this for the same reason? Do yo know how to avoid it?
What if my lines are at the spot I have supports? Maybe add them higher or lower?
Whats the difference between Layer lines and Voxel lines on a print?
It's also more likely that it's a fault in the printer. Photons are notorious for this Z wobble. They should all have their cheap gantries replaced with MGN9H linear rails, and a proper anti backlash nut.
I've just got Mars and even more important is to adjust rollers. On my machine they were so tight that I could not push the head out of a z-screw - motor would just stall. Even pushing with my hands I had trouble removing it. I've readjusted rollers so head moves more freely. Best option sure is to use linear rails and real ballscrew but those are pricey. Delrin nut may work as well.
What about vertical layer shifts? Perpendicular to the build plate.
You made the statement that printing a base straight on the bed is always fine. Can you help me understand that? I mean, I get that it's probably not ALWAYS safe, but that's not what I am getting at. I am wondering why it is almost always safe to print a base on a bed... and if that's the case, if I am printing a base by itself, should I just lay it flat? And by the same token, why is it that we don't need to worry about suction forces for the huge cross-section of area of the support skate?
Why has this comment been ignored? I'd like to hear more about this as well. I was surprised when the video just ended after showing the problem with no solution.
hey 3dpro, my friend got his first resin printer and his prints are kinda thicker than they would be at the same scale on PLA (same head looks fatter) why is this happening?
How come this issue doesn't seem to effect the base layer of support mini rafts? People advise not to print large flat areas due to this peel force but surely that layer of support is a similar large flat area. Is that controlled by bottom layer count and cure times?
The base layers are way overexposed, i.e., likely fully cured. The subsequent layers are exposed for a short amount of time and they can detach from the object being formed if the pulling force is large. They are extremely thin when first formed. In most cases, they will receive additional UV light through the following (lower) very thin layers.
How about the same model is not always get horizontal line, but only few times? :(
So is the issue that the model never leaves teh FEP, and creates a line because it essentially skipped a layer? Or rather merged 2 layers?
Or am I not understanding the issue.
Also, you mention that there may be less of an issue with this if the model is more centered on the FEP. Wouldn't the middle have the most flex of the whole sheet, and thus be worse for this issue rather than better?
where this figure is downloadable please?
I got vertical lines... Dunno what to do with that problem...
I get Z lines on all my models at the same height in the early stage of the print. No matter the size or shape, always the first cm get some noticeble lines. Could this be the z rod? Or settings to change maybe
clean and grease (white lithium grease) your Z :)
Where does he find these amazing models?
Artisan Guild, they make great sculpts. I think he's working with them now.
I need a place to ask questions, for basically what this entire video is about. Anyone have any suggestions? I am still very amateur and I am having a problem thats not really discussed anywhere - the resin comes out soft in the thick area where its got lines. Changing light off delay only helped it a little.
Raise your normal exposure/cure time :)
@@3dprintingpro212 I did that first, and change lift and all. Raising light off at least made it so I couldn't literally wipe the resin off, but was still somewhat soft. I might have a temp issue so we'll see, but its a 10 hr print so it means a lot of time to see what results come of the changes. I get that I might have to add supports now, but now my concern is the supports being soft.
@@nishinomiya2382 send me a screenshot of the settings you are using on Facebook if you can, I can take a look
Can you post the source for the peel force formula? I'm very curious about that because it seems counter-intuitive to me.
I don't know how to type all the symbols but 3pi*viscosity*separation velocity*radius to the fourth, over 2*height between FEP and new cured later cubed
@@3dprintingpro212 Thank you. The only part that doesn't make sense to me is the radius^4. I tell you why: one time, due to a bug in Photon File Validator, I printed a full screen layer (all printing area with resin) that the printer peeled with no problem. According to the size of the problematic area you show in the video, that is strong enough to decalibrate the printer, the force for a full screen print would have been tremendous. I would say that the force is proportional to the printing area, not the square of the printing area like the radius^4 suggests. Anyway I'm not expert in this area. Thank you for the info anyway.
@@edark4682 bet you're talking about a bottom layer though, right?
@@3dprintingpro212 Yes, the first layer. Luckly I noticed and stopped the printer before the second one
it was thicc print LOL!!
This guy is the Jason Blaha of the 3D Printing world.
8:48 "16 time the forces!"
0:32 quick mafs
What model is that?
Aya the Lust Demon from Artisan Guild.
nice model, is it on Thingiverse?
from Artisan Guild :)
8:17 Instantly looks to see if anyone already made a witty comment
Hmm, wouldn't hollowing the model solve the issue? Sure there is no need for 32mm models, but that lust demon Aya model looks to be be closer to ~100mm height.
In some cases yes, but some models you may not want to hollow, because hollowing means drain holes and drain holes means difficult repair to make it look perfect
THICCest part of the print is THICC for sure
Real men say tush
8:20 Niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Does your math equates to 16 times the detail ;)
The lines are unlikely to come from suction Force.
I initially had these lines in every print in Chitu Box
They only disappeared when I freshly set up all the drivers for my graphics card. I Think it was a graphic Card driver Problem.
Since then I have been printing extremely large parts on the Elegoo mars pro and so far have not even had a problem.
Hope it helps somebody.
Oh mamma, and I hate math. Mind just blanks out ;) hahahaha....
wtf is pio square???
Really great video! A like and subscribe from me