I personally have the Beyerdynamic DT-990 and I do use it for mixing/mastering. But I also have the Sony MDR-7506 for tracking. I'm just one guy who perpetually overdubs and/or creates virtual instrument tracks and thus I don't have bleed-in issues. But all that said, you are absolutely right: closed-back for tracking, open-back for mixing/mastering.
I've done the same in reverse, started mixing using closed back headphones, sounded dreadful on speakers and did some research. Bought some Beyerdynamic 990's (open back) and mixes are sweet. My monitor speakers are at best limited in an attic room more suited to antiques and spiders than sound craft, but reference tracks sound ok on them. A combination of the 990's and a very low volume on monitors is making the most of my resources.
Important stuff there. One piece of information I came across repeatedly is that you need to mix through different speakers/headphones. I use an old pair of Sony MDR-XD400, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Presonus ERIS E5 monitors, and then for good measure run it through my PA with Yamaha S115V and a Behringer Eurolive B1200D Pro. Since I added the sub it really informs my choice of VST especially for Bass. 😃
The open back isn't the only issue when considering things like the BD 990 pro is the 250 ohm resistance. Most headphone outs operate at much lower resistance. High resistance will attenuate the signal.
I use my 12-year-old Sennheiser HD-280 closed-back set (since discontinued) for tracking, and am careful to keep the click volume low. I use my 1-year-old Beyerdynamic DT-990 open-back set for listening at my studio chair to commercial recordings, and for mixing and mastering my stuff. One more feature not to overlook: impedance. The HD-280s are (I think) about 60 or 80 ohm, so they’ll work with low-output signals, even my iPhone. But I chose the 600 ohm version of the DT-990, so I added a headphone preamp to the chain, which is OK because I only use them at my studio chair.
Nice info in the story. I just bought my mix headphones from Sweetwater... AKG 240 MkII, semi open back. For me they'll work fine. My work is live mix at church and semi open made sense, sometimes I'm doing front of house and the rest is monitoring my Livestream out from Studio One 6. The 240s do sound like a cross between open and closed back to me, which is exactly what I needed.
beyerdynamic also offers the DT-880 "semi-open" headphones which, if your not doing live tracking, as you were in Houston, I find to be the best of both worlds (closed or open). I use the 250ohm version (bd makes three versions with different resistances) and I absolutely love 'em.
Hey, that blast from the past intro is not that bad! I suggest using it - occasionally?! - at the *end* of a podcast or video - I trust some will be surprised...!
I have an OLD pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pro 60 ohm closed back forever.; still great if needed. Now they're my backup pair. My Sweetwater guy recommended 2 diff types which I bought, both Beyerdynamic. The DT 770 Pro-80- ohm closed back, that I use for Recording. AND then the DT 880 Pro-250 ohm, open back for mixing and mastering. The best of both worlds to me from this Joe G VIPer guy! I would also recommend paying attention to what OHMS any of your purchase decisions involve. The higher 250 ohm need alot more power so I wound up buying a multi-headphone 4-channel AMP too. I am self-contained and really only record guitar and bass, and my occasional harmonica or dobro tracks, as I use Toon track for keys and drums and my own Vocal tracks.
This I get, I'm ok with what I got Fostex tr-80 80 ohm, if it comes to it, you can remove the closed back yourself, often having what suits your needs spares you some trouble👍
Interesting, Joe. I have the Audio Technica athrt70x (open back) which I love for mixing and mastering in my tiny home studio. I once had a recording session where the singer used the headphones to hear the accompaniment & clicks. The sound just bled straight into the recording. Fortunately, I have a pair of Bose noise canceling headphones (this was the time when Bose was the only one who did that) which I use for flights. We used that instead for recording.
Joe. A topic I would be interested in is actually setting up headphone mixes, and so tips and techniques on how the various levels interact with the performance, especially for vocals. Something I have noticed in the past with a vocalist is that sometimes they would set the ME level too loud and then they wouldn’t actually sing with the energy required, probably because it was too loud in phones. This can also affect pitching. Would be great to get your experience on this topic.
What works for me: I mix on everything for one mix: studio monitors to walkman headphones to computer speakers, etc. etc. Mix is good when it sounds good and relatively the same on ALL systems.
I'm actually taking your mixing class right now. And was in bed checking in on RUclips and came across this. Realizing I'm doing your course with closed-back headphones, I'm out of bed and now looking for a pair of open-backed headphones to grab before I go back to your course.😁. Any recommendations? I grabbed your gear guide but it didn't seem to specify any open-backed headphones by name. Just the closed-back.
Sennheiser HD280 Pro (closed) for tracking. THese are excellent for isolation and virtually no bleed. Sennheiser HD 600 (open) for mixing. The 600 is flat and balanced and IMO better than the 650s for mixing/mastering since the 650s are a bit more hyped in the lows.
Joking here Joe… how come the mic did t bang LOUDLY when you knocked it with the headphones? Is the silver mic a dummy for aesthetics? 😊 Kindest regards from London 🇬🇧 UK 🔥
If you ever find yourself back in Houston for a job let me know I'd love to link up and thank you for taking the time to make these videos and educate everybody on the nuances of working in audio. I actually Rock the PreSonus Studio live 32 in my studio that I run as a small business on the northwest side of town, so you have a great taste in Equipment my friend! At first I was trying to figure out which venue you were talking about because it sounds very similar to a new one they just built downtown that I've worked at multiple times but when you said y'all were using a PreSonus I wasn't so sure since they normally run x32s but it's possible they brought one in for that session. It sounds very similar to that venue we have now which is called rise and it has a retractable dome roof( Ironically, i dont think anyone considered how that what effect the audio quality/acoustics but its a w warehouse building called Rise rooftop and just like you said it's a very long room. I doubt it was the same venue but it definitely sounds like it from your description
I originally used a pair of Beyerdynamic 660 headphones for recording and mixing. Even though they are closed, click would bleed through on acoustic guitar parts. I had these for over 20 years until the speakers deteriorated. I would not recommend them for mixing and mastering. I’m now using Beyerdynamic 880s (250 ohm) for everything except acoustic (live) parts. For acoustic and vocals, I move to IEM which pretty much eliminates any click or recording noise.
This comment has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this episode, but I found it interesting how Joe felt the "younger Joe's voice" part of the podcast clip was "cringe-y" and "embarrassing," yet to my ears, it was anything but. I think it's a good example of how some of us might shy away from letting people hear "us," because we have this internal cringe-o-meter that is probably completely disconnected from reality. The first minute of this episode was a lesson to me about how I should get over my anxiety of how I sound to other people, because it's all in my own head, and as a result, holding me back. Anyway, just had to share my thoughts, because why not? Now to get back to watching what I came here to watch.
Beyer dynamics build 3 types of headphones. Close (770), open (990), and some semi close (880 which is what I use for mixing and midi composition) but I have some close headphones for recording (PreSonus hd9 and sony mdr7506)
I can tell you that IEM's also aren't the end all and be all, The reason... I do one BUTT load of live sound engineering. Musicians on long gigs like taking out one IEM and then.... Tick Tick Tick is what I hear from their mic, just an FYI for younger less seasoned engineers. Thanks Joe, valuable material in this one.
It is not just open or closed, it is also the ohms (resistance) of the particular headphone. Some headphones can blast if you use a headphone amp and some can't. Make. Sure that you are buying headphones with the correct resistance (ohms) for your system.
Definitely not Joe, but I can take a stab at the question. You're referring to Studio One and the level meter, correct? If you want either a long, horizontal or the tall, vertical meter, click and drag from the top and side borders so as to drag the meter window to the shape you're after.
Hey man, I've got a question.. So i have a Scarlett Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen paired with 2 JBL 305P MkII's l.. I thought i had it figured out, but someone I know is telling me i'd be better off with unbalaced 1/4 to xlr than what i have, which is balanced 1/4 to xlr. Would you mind steering me in the right direction? You know your stuff!
It is also important to choose headphones with the correct impedance depending on the equipment you're using. (not affiliated with Sweetwater) Check out this video ruclips.net/video/0Ki_-reu4PE/видео.html
Think this is largely going to be lost on people that don't play, including many producers. That said, this is raising more questions than answering anything for me. It's probably a mistake to default to producers having acoustic engineering backgrounds because they don't.
Hey there Joe. Can you please make a video about why and when you switched from protools to studio one? I went wayyyyyyyyy back into your videos and all I could find is 11 years ago you were using PT and then in another video you were all of the sudden using Studio one. I hope I speak for many of your viewers by formerly asking if you could make a video about this particular point in time where you actually made the transition. Thanks Joe!! Your videos are very informative.
Haha! Wow, so I have never even worn a set of OB headphones, but one of my first purchases (along with an interface and vocal mic) when I got started waaaayy back in early 2020 was a set of AudTec ATH-M50x. While browsing, I came across the words "open-back", and since I was created with an almost debilitating curiosity (and hate not knowing what something is, how it works, how it's made, who invented it, what that person's mother's maiden name is...yeah, I get lost in Wikipedia for hours at a rate that's embarrassing) , this was one of the first lessons learned. My first thought was "Wow, Joe... It took you that long to figure that out?", but I quickly realized that this was one of those situations that pros like you almost never happen upon, because who on earth buys their entire band strictly mixing/listening headphones for live room recording? That crap right there will sneak up on the best of us, and I felt a lot of empathy going out to you, buddy. Half the country probably heard the insanely frustrated yet can't-help-but-donkey-laugh sigh/guffaw of relief that you released. And wow, apologies from every angle of that circus. Really, REALLY great story for a valuable lesson. P.S. That intro was the tits!
Lol I thought the cause would be a difference in ohms (amp not powerful enough to drive the cans) but yeah, your guy made a rookie mistake (but one easily fixed). I can imagine how uncomfortable you were feeling before your diagnosis.
You really loose the thread of the story with the constant asides, trying to follow the story, trying to get to the actual point . . . and suddenly I'm listening to the history of a pair of headphones, that the pads have been replaced, how comfortable they are . . . couple of minutes later I'm learning that the upper mids on Sennheiser 650s are 'a little hyped' - and so on - it's rare I do it, but I kept thinking 'get on with the actual story !' lol . . . : )
@@HomeStudioCorner I literally learned everything i know from your channel ….but yea while your laughing im unsubscribing for wasting my time with irrelevant information
Odd. I was hanging on every word, hoping he would never stop. His voice is so dreamy! Seriously...the video is 13 minutes long. Work on your attention span.
You tell your stories your way, let Joe tell his stories his way. I actually enjoyed the way his story went. If you got bored, go play with your compressor tubes or something.
I deal with tinnitus myself, I'm mostly able to tune it out as I've dealt with it for about 43 years. My tinnitus is at 2.1K so maybe that's making a difference. I've been told there's hearing aids that have a digital EQ built-in that can attenuate those ringing frequencies. If I had those I'd probably be trying my hardest to load plug-ins for Massive EQ and a compressor or two.
I personally have the Beyerdynamic DT-990 and I do use it for mixing/mastering. But I also have the Sony MDR-7506 for tracking. I'm just one guy who perpetually overdubs and/or creates virtual instrument tracks and thus I don't have bleed-in issues. But all that said, you are absolutely right: closed-back for tracking, open-back for mixing/mastering.
I've done the same in reverse, started mixing using closed back headphones, sounded dreadful on speakers and did some research. Bought some Beyerdynamic 990's (open back) and mixes are sweet. My monitor speakers are at best limited in an attic room more suited to antiques and spiders than sound craft, but reference tracks sound ok on them. A combination of the 990's and a very low volume on monitors is making the most of my resources.
Important stuff there. One piece of information I came across repeatedly is that you need to mix through different speakers/headphones. I use an old pair of Sony MDR-XD400, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Presonus ERIS E5 monitors, and then for good measure run it through my PA with Yamaha S115V and a Behringer Eurolive B1200D Pro. Since I added the sub it really informs my choice of VST especially for Bass. 😃
The open back isn't the only issue when considering things like the BD 990 pro is the 250 ohm resistance. Most headphone outs operate at much lower resistance. High resistance will attenuate the signal.
I use my 12-year-old Sennheiser HD-280 closed-back set (since discontinued) for tracking, and am careful to keep the click volume low. I use my 1-year-old Beyerdynamic DT-990 open-back set for listening at my studio chair to commercial recordings, and for mixing and mastering my stuff.
One more feature not to overlook: impedance. The HD-280s are (I think) about 60 or 80 ohm, so they’ll work with low-output signals, even my iPhone. But I chose the 600 ohm version of the DT-990, so I added a headphone preamp to the chain, which is OK because I only use them at my studio chair.
Nice info in the story. I just bought my mix headphones from Sweetwater... AKG 240 MkII, semi open back. For me they'll work fine. My work is live mix at church and semi open made sense, sometimes I'm doing front of house and the rest is monitoring my Livestream out from Studio One 6. The 240s do sound like a cross between open and closed back to me, which is exactly what I needed.
beyerdynamic also offers the DT-880 "semi-open" headphones which, if your not doing live tracking, as you were in Houston, I find to be the best of both worlds (closed or open). I use the 250ohm version (bd makes three versions with different resistances) and I absolutely love 'em.
Hey, that blast from the past intro is not that bad! I suggest using it - occasionally?! - at the *end* of a podcast or video - I trust some will be surprised...!
I have an OLD pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pro 60 ohm closed back forever.; still great if needed. Now they're my backup pair. My Sweetwater guy recommended 2 diff types which I bought, both Beyerdynamic. The DT 770 Pro-80- ohm closed back, that I use for Recording. AND then the DT 880 Pro-250 ohm, open back for mixing and mastering. The best of both worlds to me from this Joe G VIPer guy! I would also recommend paying attention to what OHMS any of your purchase decisions involve. The higher 250 ohm need alot more power so I wound up buying a multi-headphone 4-channel AMP too. I am self-contained and really only record guitar and bass, and my occasional harmonica or dobro tracks, as I use Toon track for keys and drums and my own Vocal tracks.
This I get, I'm ok with what I got Fostex tr-80 80 ohm, if it comes to it, you can remove the closed back yourself, often having what suits your needs spares you some trouble👍
Super helpful…thanks! I need to check if our drummer’s headphones are open or closed back. That might solve a problem for recording my band also.
Interesting, Joe. I have the Audio Technica athrt70x (open back) which I love for mixing and mastering in my tiny home studio. I once had a recording session where the singer used the headphones to hear the accompaniment & clicks. The sound just bled straight into the recording. Fortunately, I have a pair of Bose noise canceling headphones (this was the time when Bose was the only one who did that) which I use for flights. We used that instead for recording.
Joe. A topic I would be interested in is actually setting up headphone mixes, and so tips and techniques on how the various levels interact with the performance, especially for vocals. Something I have noticed in the past with a vocalist is that sometimes they would set the ME level too loud and then they wouldn’t actually sing with the energy required, probably because it was too loud in phones. This can also affect pitching. Would be great to get your experience on this topic.
Thanks for the tip Joe! I'd heard the phrase, but never really understood fully what "open back" vs. "closed back" meant. Subscribed!
What works for me: I mix on everything for one mix: studio monitors to walkman headphones to computer speakers, etc. etc. Mix is good when it sounds good and relatively the same on ALL systems.
I really liked your intro song for ask Joe episode 230 when you went all boys to men
Beyer DT990s open back are the bomb for mixing!
I'm actually taking your mixing class right now. And was in bed checking in on RUclips and came across this. Realizing I'm doing your course with closed-back headphones, I'm out of bed and now looking for a pair of open-backed headphones to grab before I go back to your course.😁. Any recommendations? I grabbed your gear guide but it didn't seem to specify any open-backed headphones by name. Just the closed-back.
Just ordered the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro.
Sennheiser HD280 Pro (closed) for tracking. THese are excellent for isolation and virtually no bleed. Sennheiser HD 600 (open) for mixing. The 600 is flat and balanced and IMO better than the 650s for mixing/mastering since the 650s are a bit more hyped in the lows.
Wow that is the same setup that I have and use for those purposes.
Joking here Joe… how come the mic did t bang LOUDLY when you knocked it with the headphones? Is the silver mic a dummy for aesthetics? 😊 Kindest regards from London 🇬🇧 UK 🔥
If you ever find yourself back in Houston for a job let me know I'd love to link up and thank you for taking the time to make these videos and educate everybody on the nuances of working in audio.
I actually Rock the PreSonus Studio live 32 in my studio that I run as a small business on the northwest side of town, so you have a great taste in Equipment my friend!
At first I was trying to figure out which venue you were talking about because it sounds very similar to a new one they just built downtown that I've worked at multiple times but when you said y'all were using a PreSonus I wasn't so sure since they normally run x32s but it's possible they brought one in for that session. It sounds very similar to that venue we have now which is called rise and it has a retractable dome roof( Ironically, i dont think anyone considered how that what effect the audio quality/acoustics but its a w warehouse building called Rise rooftop and just like you said it's a very long room. I doubt it was the same venue but it definitely sounds like it from your description
Love the shirt!
I have a set of open backed but I use earbuds when recording with click. Works just fine.
Great video! Can't wait for the Studio One Meetup next week!
I originally used a pair of Beyerdynamic 660 headphones for recording and mixing. Even though they are closed, click would bleed through on acoustic guitar parts. I had these for over 20 years until the speakers deteriorated. I would not recommend them for mixing and mastering. I’m now using Beyerdynamic 880s (250 ohm) for everything except acoustic (live) parts. For acoustic and vocals, I move to IEM which pretty much eliminates any click or recording noise.
Very nice video ... I came to so important story of great musician of usa ...thnx lot
This comment has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this episode, but I found it interesting how Joe felt the "younger Joe's voice" part of the podcast clip was "cringe-y" and "embarrassing," yet to my ears, it was anything but. I think it's a good example of how some of us might shy away from letting people hear "us," because we have this internal cringe-o-meter that is probably completely disconnected from reality. The first minute of this episode was a lesson to me about how I should get over my anxiety of how I sound to other people, because it's all in my own head, and as a result, holding me back. Anyway, just had to share my thoughts, because why not? Now to get back to watching what I came here to watch.
Beyer dynamics build 3 types of headphones. Close (770), open (990), and some semi close (880 which is what I use for mixing and midi composition) but I have some close headphones for recording (PreSonus hd9 and sony mdr7506)
I can tell you that IEM's also aren't the end all and be all, The reason... I do one BUTT load of live sound engineering. Musicians on long gigs like taking out one IEM and then.... Tick Tick Tick is what I hear from their mic, just an FYI for younger less seasoned engineers. Thanks Joe, valuable material in this one.
A few years ago I started panning my click to my left ear, so I could take my right ear out if i wanted without that problem. 🤘
Thanks joe! Love ur channel:)
When I realized the problem before you got to it....I just stated laughing!! Great video.
It is not just open or closed, it is also the ohms (resistance) of the particular headphone. Some headphones can blast if you use a headphone amp and some can't. Make. Sure that you are buying headphones with the correct resistance (ohms) for your system.
Thanks...... I am really learning
Joe.. One quick question not on this topic.... "That big hunkin meter"... How do we get to turn it 90 degrees...?? Rob
Definitely not Joe, but I can take a stab at the question. You're referring to Studio One and the level meter, correct?
If you want either a long, horizontal or the tall, vertical meter, click and drag from the top and side borders so as to drag the meter window to the shape you're after.
Thats what we all need, some supernatural low end!
What mic are you using here, Joe? That looks like the Twin-87…
9:08 Yay!
Hey man, I've got a question.. So i have a Scarlett Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen paired with 2 JBL 305P MkII's l.. I thought i had it figured out, but someone I know is telling me i'd be better off with unbalaced 1/4 to xlr than what i have, which is balanced 1/4 to xlr. Would you mind steering me in the right direction? You know your stuff!
That shirt must go brotha
when you supply a monitor mix system to each musician, and you STILL have to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off.
Nice topic. Thanks, Joe :) Would you recommend Beyerdynamic DT770 PRO 250 OHM for vocal recording?
For sure a good choice!
Great Video and topic!
I use the HD 1990 Pro for mastering, I would never use them for recording, far too much leakage.
It is also important to choose headphones with the correct impedance depending on the equipment you're using. (not affiliated with Sweetwater) Check out this video ruclips.net/video/0Ki_-reu4PE/видео.html
Think this is largely going to be lost on people that don't play, including many producers. That said, this is raising more questions than answering anything for me. It's probably a mistake to default to producers having acoustic engineering backgrounds because they don't.
🙏🏻🤟
Hey there Joe.
Can you please make a video about why and when you switched from protools to studio one? I went wayyyyyyyyy back into your videos and all I could find is 11 years ago you were using PT and then in another video you were all of the sudden using Studio one. I hope I speak for many of your viewers by formerly asking if you could make a video about this particular point in time where you actually made the transition.
Thanks Joe!! Your videos are very informative.
Haha! Wow, so I have never even worn a set of OB headphones, but one of my first purchases (along with an interface and vocal mic) when I got started waaaayy back in early 2020 was a set of AudTec ATH-M50x. While browsing, I came across the words "open-back", and since I was created with an almost debilitating curiosity (and hate not knowing what something is, how it works, how it's made, who invented it, what that person's mother's maiden name is...yeah, I get lost in Wikipedia for hours at a rate that's embarrassing) , this was one of the first lessons learned.
My first thought was "Wow, Joe... It took you that long to figure that out?", but I quickly realized that this was one of those situations that pros like you almost never happen upon, because who on earth buys their entire band strictly mixing/listening headphones for live room recording? That crap right there will sneak up on the best of us, and I felt a lot of empathy going out to you, buddy. Half the country probably heard the insanely frustrated yet can't-help-but-donkey-laugh sigh/guffaw of relief that you released. And wow, apologies from every angle of that circus. Really, REALLY great story for a valuable lesson.
P.S. That intro was the tits!
Lol I thought the cause would be a difference in ohms (amp not powerful enough to drive the cans) but yeah, your guy made a rookie mistake (but one easily fixed). I can imagine how uncomfortable you were feeling before your diagnosis.
Headphones for reference, not for finality
Popcast dont like.
You really loose the thread of the story with the constant asides, trying to follow the story, trying to get to the actual point . . . and suddenly I'm listening to the history of a pair of headphones, that the pads have been replaced, how comfortable they are . . . couple of minutes later I'm learning that the upper mids on Sennheiser 650s are 'a little hyped' - and so on - it's rare I do it, but I kept thinking 'get on with the actual story !' lol . . . : )
😂
@@HomeStudioCorner I literally learned everything i know from your channel ….but yea while your laughing im unsubscribing for wasting my time with irrelevant information
Odd. I was hanging on every word, hoping he would never stop. His voice is so dreamy!
Seriously...the video is 13 minutes long. Work on your attention span.
The point wasn't to tell a story, but to advice on headphone choices. But the story was an example, and a medium
You tell your stories your way, let Joe tell his stories his way. I actually enjoyed the way his story went. If you got bored, go play with your compressor tubes or something.
sorry to say, but only an amateur would not pay attention to the type of headphones they're buying.
Sound exactly the same dude. That’s how voices work. They’re different in u head
First viewer 😂
Hello 🙂 What can I do if I have tinnitus ?🎸🎶🧏👂🎧
I deal with tinnitus myself, I'm mostly able to tune it out as I've dealt with it for about 43 years. My tinnitus is at 2.1K so maybe that's making a difference.
I've been told there's hearing aids that have a digital EQ built-in that can attenuate those ringing frequencies. If I had those I'd probably be trying my hardest to load plug-ins for Massive EQ and a compressor or two.