"Hell Makes Perfect Sense If You Just..." | Talk Heathen: Throwback
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
NOTES
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
/ talkheathen is the official channel of Talk Heathen. "Talk Heathen" is a trademark of the ACA.
Copyright © 2024 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.
Gotta love how he dodges immediately when his arguments got wrecked.
Sad
"...turn off your intellect and your empathy". There, I finished the title :)
“If you don’t think about it, it makes sense.”
You've also summed up conservatives perfectly.
Liberals are equally ridiculous whan it comes to certain topics ... no intellect, empathy or logic.
What you said is a non sequitur, because someone could turn off their empathy and intellect by killing themselves, and Hell would not make perfect sense to them afterwards.
@@newmankidman5763 I was making a joke, not an argument
You know it’s sad when the American justice system is more fair and just and reasonable than Christianity.
The American Justice system isn’t really broken. It’s designed well. But the problem is some of the people that have been placed in it that don’t care about the principles that we were founded on.
not by much
I would argue any system on this planet is more fair than God's system, even North Korea's. Hitchens used to say that at "least in North Korea you can fucking die" and makes more just.😂😂
The American justice system enforced slavery in the United States for sixty years. The American justice system has sentenced more than 60,000,000 American children to death by abortion during my lifetime. So in what way is the American justice system more fair than Christianity? Christians in England abolished slavery in 1834. Christians in the United States abolished slavery in 1864. Christians in the United States say they do not believe atheists and their justice system should have killed 60,000,000 American children. Atheists are just saying that whatever atheists do is justice, and whatever Christians do is not justice.
You can say anything to a religious creature that is logically based and they will come up with some sickness to continue to justify their deranged position. They don't use logical thinking they use emotional reasoning. That shows how weak of mind they are.
"no human can really know what holy means", except Brandon here..of course.
I know what holy means. Holy is the inherent nature of the being that drowns every man, woman, child, unborn child, plant and animal on a whole planet if he’s a gwumpy wumpy boi. Holy is turning someone’s wife to a pile of minerals for looking in a direction. Holy is knowing that one horrible curse would have worked on the Egyptians but choosing to inflict nine others on them first; for the extra human suffering. “Holy” is a word for evil.
I can agree with Brandon on this one point. I have no idea what it is for something to be holy. Well respected? Sure. Holy? No idea.
@@diogeneslamp8004 Neither do I, but Brandon and his church buddies sure think they do. It's when they are cornered to answer us what it actually means, then all of a sudden everything is vague and the human brain isn't capable or something.. they stamp "holy" on stuff no one is allowed to criticize, ridicule or question..
Gotta love how he's like, "You can't deny that evolution teaches what _I_ say it teaches and not what scientists _actually_ say it teaches."
"...think like a child." is the rest of that sentence.
Some kids are already smarter than this dude.
I’m right & your wrong, because I’m a Christian. You’re correct, thinking like a child.
"Hell Makes Perfect Sense If You Just..."
believed in stories from a 2000 year old storybook.
"If hell were real, each occupant would be a shining reminder that god has failed."
-- Robert Ingersoll
@@OswaldBatesIIIEsq
This one is beautiful.
Me,
An all powerful, all loving god.
If he can't convince me, he's not all-powerful.
If he won't convince me, he's not all-loving.
Hell is so much better than heaven... Metal music, whisky and like-minded people who don't like the god monster, including the devil.
yeah, and it's probably air-conditioned by now considering all of the scientists who are supposedly going there.
In Hell, I'll be in good company
"Heaven for climate, Hell for company " - Mark Twain
It always comes down to it in the end. Just who is god trying to save us from?
Himself. IF you refuse to kiss his bum.
Knock Knock.
Who is there?
I, god.
What do you want?
Enter.
Why?
To save you.
From whom?
From me, when I'm in.
I am the one who knocks ....
It always comes down to this; "Believe in "My" god, do what "I" tell you to do, give "Me" money!"
"You believe life came from a rock?"
Asked the guy who believes life came from dirt.
Hey! Dirt’s organic! Not like a rock at all. Unless the rock has dirt on it…
Hell is a figment of someone's imagination, in order to keep people acting as some "judge" wants them to behave.
Apparently, Brandon learned evolution from Kent Hovin’s bogus seminars.
great points from the hosts, but once again the thiest caller completely ignores him
Why create a world where evil is even possible if you're all powerful, and demand perfection from your imperfect creations? These people always claim we believe life came from rocks, yet their belief is that man was made from "the dust of the ground". Aren't they the ones that believe we came from rocks since dust is just finely ground up rocks?
Oh, Brandon, Brandon, Brandon...
Oh man.. nothing justifies hell and eternal torture.. Brandon needs to check his priorities and empathy for the fellow man.
christians are empathy deficient
Priorities and empathy require self governance...you know. Autonomy....unless they get told what to do by their local religion pusher or it they find if in the book somehow....they don't question it and don't dare think or feel anything by themselves...these are perfect slaves to a church who threaten them with eternal damnation and torture. You have to be sacred out of your mind to be this obedient.
@@danielkeizer4174 If I was a theist, I would be terrified of doing something wrong, even by accident. My anxiety would cause me to become paranoid and have a heart attack. I definitely wouldn't have time to be concerned about other people ending up in hell, I'd have my hands full with my own life.. so, that makes me think theists don't believe in hell either. It's just a threat and a weapon.
@@einienj3281 I'd imagine they think if they are obedient and follow the rules that they are told are in place, there's no chance in hell (pun intended) they would end up in hell. But they seem to think they get extra points for convincing others to join up. Sort of an insurance to get into heaven. They are so scared, and flawed as humans are bound to get punished for their thought and actions, the only way to insure their entrance to heaven is by submitting more people to the heavenly dictator to get it's appreciation. At least that's how I view them. Scared and desperate to be the savior and gain favor...while telling themselves they are trying to save your soul ofcourse...
It pisses me off how people who have no clue what evolution is feel so confident explaining what they think evolution is.
God is all-powerful and capable of anything ?? Could God roll a joint so large that even He could not smoke it ? Asking for a friend...
That's why it's puff puff pass
Actually the Christian apologetics say that he follows (created and follows) logic, so he won't make a rock so heavy he can't lift it nor rolling anything he can't stop it (or smoke it).
They have an answer to everything, its just that its either unreasonable or non evidence based or both.
“Listen to the questions they refuse to answer”
-MD
To impose "perfect" justice on beings that were purposely made imperfect seems to me to be about as immoral as you can get.
Why would he read about evolution when he don’t even read the Bible that he defends
If someone sets you up to fail just to give themselves an excuse to attack you for failing, they're not doing it for your benefit because they love you. They're doing it for their benefit because they hate you.
I’ll be stealing this.
@@diogeneslamp8004 I insist that you steal it.
@@gatorboymike
You’re on!
I feel bad for the authors of the Bible. Like the only idea of an ultimate authority figure they could conceptualize was a narcissistic, emotionally and physically abusive father figure.
Adults believing in a book no more than a fairy tale is embarrassing
Brandon's contortion skills are superior to the finest circus performers.😊
Cirque de Silly
Cirque du So Lame
@@CycocelVocalist braVO! *Bows and hands crown*
Hell... A torment for failure to do something in life that is not clearly identified to everyone who might go there.
A permanent evil for temporary mistakes
I don't say punishment because punishment implies correction. There is no witness to hell and no coming back so there is no correction or deterrent
"You say God is stupid, but what if I strawman your argument with a tu quoque?! ...Heh, I showed them."
I'm convinced that Thomas Westbrook is just Joe Louis reincarnated as a logician.
I was thinking he is Crowley from Good Omens trolling as he does.
this guy called so many times and every tine he crashes and burns, And he changes his name. And the whole concept of Christianity is avoidance of moral responsibility.
Hey brandon: Do I deserve eternal *torture* because I don't believe in magic?
The idea that He cannot have sin in his presence is immediately negated by the fact that he walked and talked with them just like he did before right after they sinned.
I couldn't imagine anything worse than eternal anything. After a while, it would just become apathy.
I'm in year 3 of a degree in biology, and I am still waiting for the section where we came from rocks. I can't wait.
I've always loved that deflection from Christians because they're presenting it as something utterly ridiculous, when that is unironically what they believe.
Rocks that are organic in nature are usually things like coals, shales or minerals that contain the substance that denotes organic, “carbon” in levels greater than 3%. If there is no carbon in the mineral then it is inorganic.25. tra 2018.
Poor Brandon has been so deeply indoctrinated into this nonsense that he seems to believe it.
Always love the enthusiasthic shrieks from the audience
Hell was made for Brandon....
The bible doesn't teach sh*t.....
the bible only teach sh*t…
Hell, God, Jesus, Sins etc exact topic.
But... evolution can't come from a rock!
Wow its like theists have never learned anything, ever!
I Love/Hate when they lose and resort to talking shit about evolution like if we disproved evolution today that did something to prove ANY god
}
In one sentence the caller says this is the way things has to be, and in the next he says that God is all-powerful (and should therefore be able to freely change how things "has to be").
Theists tangle themselves up in all sorts of webs to avoid admitting that the god they're proposing would have to have full control over which afterlife people go to, and would have knowledge of this even before he created people.
Being in gods presence eternally sounds like a really crappy time. I think ill go for a soda
Why should we give a flying phuque what some story book says, which was written by men with no evidence whatsoever for the actual existence of most of the core characters or events?
He lost the debate at the very moment he switched to evolution.
the bible is holy , meaning its full of holes
It is sad what religion can do to a person
Evolution teaches that we all came from a rock? That’s a new one on me.
The BuyBull is totally irrelevant to modern intellectual discourse, just like alchemy is irrelevant to modern chemistry.
Hell makes total sense -
When there is a world with bad deeds happening all the time and people getting away with it,
and you almighty God NEVER interferese and corrects the wrong (because he does not exist),
you are in a hefty predicament as it shall be YOU, the church, that guides and controls your society.
So you need something MASSIVE.
Enter Hell.
Whenever someone did anything horrible (like envying your neighbour's belongings, 10th Commandment) that will be atoned for - not even death is enough or could save you, no, you will be tortured FOREVER.
The more drastic the story, the better.
Goal is to scare people so much of this posthumous cruelty that you constantly think of it, are in constant fear, so that you submit under the dictate of the church to be saved.
That's exactly right - it's clear that the whole carrot/stick of heaven/hell was made up by founders of early Christianity, to enforce their will on followers and control them. It worked back in Roman times and hey - it still works today (see Brandon!).
It's all such a convenient method of control.... no, we don't understand it- we're not MEANT to understand it- and we're not supposed to question it and if we don't follow the rules, we'll be punished forever.
When you pull yourself out of the belief system, you start realizing how incredibly ridiculous it all is.
Orwell would have understood it perfectly.
He has to do it because if he didn't do i then there would be nobody in hell. That would be a waste of a hell, so rather than getting rid of hell it just makes perfect sense that jesus should fill it with everyone who doesn't love him. Because that is exactly what a loving god would do.
Not quite. Hell was created for Lucifer and the angels who rebelled. But I guess he overestimated.
His accent sounds like he comes from a part of the USA where they do teach that Evolution says that we all came from rocks.
"I've studied evolution" anyone who thinks "all life sprang from a rock" hasn't actually studied evolution.
All his "study " of the topic almost certainly comes from videos by creationist trolls like Kent Hovind or Ken Ham.
I love that we are "made in Gods image" and yet most major religions also agree with evolution.....which would make God a poorly evolved primate......HELLO!?!
Justice for a very long time has meant to make whole, equal restitution, and the punishment fits the crime. Therefore helll is EXTREMELY unequal restitution. God is EXTREMELY unjust.
If he'll is forever then there is no atonement
Thank you Thomas for an amazing and inspirational takedown of Christianity!!
He ends by quoting Kent Hovind, who he thinks has 4PhDs.
As a former fundie I’m embarrassed to hear how profound they think “the gospel” is and they are. I have grown to love these channels & videos, and hope religious kids can listen and engage.. my hope is the new generations wouldnt put up with the crap we were taught: 30years thinking the talking snake was real and an invisible malevolent force running the world. The real malevolent snakes were in the church all that time😂 running the show!
Does it seem in any way likely that a being who created the entire friggin Universe....could find no other way to make itself known than a string of ancient scribblers scribbling away for centuries???? Sorry, but I think NOT!
This guy just proved that we indeed do know the meaning of holy or more correctly holey I.E. full of holes!
Ignorant throwbacks from the ancient world thinking they deserve immortality is one of the dumbest things about them.
Your way of thinking disgusts me, Brandon! It really does
Key issue is that most theists who subscribe to a tri-omni god don’t take the omnis seriously. Their deity is everything except, except, except…
Shit, too many of these people again. I'll do better tomorrow when I reboot the universe. Oh yeah, don't worry -- there's no punishment.
You can't reason with Brandon's kind of stupidity
You hosts need to learn to speak respectfully to people
Hey God created evil to exist it says in Isaiah I the form the light and create
darkness,I make peace,and create evil ,I the lord do all these things as this
states that god can’t say he’s good only for that’s what people believe!”
The Jews believe hell is eternal for a very small percentage. Most people, if not all, people go for a period of time to purge your souls of wickedness.
The crafty snake wasn't merely on the loose. God created that creature and put it in the garden with two innocents who didn't know right from wrong at the time. It's stunning to me that anyone can take this stuff seriously, including me as a young man...
Every theist: Blah, blah, blah, blah. I have never heard a theist win an argument.
Thomas has Brandon nailed!!. Oh and Brandon is a creationist too spouting nonsense about we came from a rock.
I can tell the difference between right and wrong. That’s why i chose to try to do right and avoid christianity at all costs. Cause that mess is more evil than anything i can conceive of.
Thomas....Crowley, is that you?
Brandon is a hardwired creationist so there’s no stopping him😳
A frozen meteorite or asteroid came from another planetary
galaxy that hit our planet earth
impact into the sea the alien
micro life forms and so life
started there first!”
Hell is a mythological concept, not a reality. Nearly all mythologies describe some form of hell for the damned or those who were evil on Earth. Christianity adopted this concept from earlier belief systems.For example, Sumerian mythology featured Kur, a dark and dreary region known as the Sumerian afterlife. The Sumerians, an ancient civilization in Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq), existed from around 4000 BCE to 2000 BCE. Christianity emerged much later, beginning with Jesus Christ's ministry in the early 1st century CE and spreading throughout the Roman Empire in subsequent centuries. This timeline demonstrates that Sumerian civilization predated Christianity by thousands of years.Ancient Egyptian religion also included an afterlife concept called the Duat, where souls faced judgment by Osiris. Based on their earthly actions, souls could experience rewards or punishments in the afterlife, with annihilation as a potential fate for the wicked.These examples illustrate how the concept of hell or an underworld has been present in various cultures long before the emergence of Christianity, highlighting the universal nature of such beliefs across different civilizations and time periods.
Brandon's god is a kiddie fiddler!
Love it, when pushed to the wall about the reasonableness of God he goes with "Do you believe evolution is the origin of life?"
Great topic shift!
And no, I do not believe evolution is the origin of life. I believe evolution is the process of adaptation and development of species - that has nothing to do with how stuff got here in the first place. And there are plenty of theists who believe in creation AND evolution.
TL:DR - Brandon is a twit.
evoultion deals with life, not before life what a tool
If Christianity's God is going to separate good from evil, then he must separate himself in half and send the evil part of himself into eternal torment.
Brandon is arrogantly ignorant
Hell brainwashed.
I love the "yow" guy.
No. No it doesnt.
holy doesn't sound very good....so imagine a judge that sentences a child to eternal torture of the worst kind...the crime, he stole a cookie! that's God justice folks!!!obviously a righteous and compassionate judge
God gave you the gift to know good and evil. Also, how dare you challenge the rules as if you know right from wrong? You aren't God! 😂😂😂
Doesn't the Bible say we come from clay.
So if we're made of clay, and we go to the fires of hell...
...is God juts making ceramics?
I want to come back as a coffee mug.
The biblical god is not holy and just, but wholly immoral.
He needs a watch of Little Nikkie STAT!
I am The Creator! 😂 ❤😮😊
Evil and sin are tolerated and welcome in heaven, per the bible. Satan is even allowed to be in the presence of god.
Im'e speechless.
DEPLOY CHAFF
*poot*
Ok that was funny.
@@diogeneslamp8004Merci ^^
Im 1000% an atheist. It annoyed me, however,.that when the caller started talking she asked him a question and when he started answering she accused him of preaching. Seems dishonest.
Yay no Matt to cut the caller off after 1 second because the caller couldn't quote the Bible. I love V. Smartest person on the show.
1. Matt has not cut off any caller after 1 second.
2. I have heard Matt walk through these exact same questions more times than I can count. These are not new questions.
3. Setting aside tone preferences, these two hosts are using a very similar tone to Matt. Tension, yelling, and confrontation.
Setting that aside...
Matt is an abrasive asshole at times.
@@cmack17 I was just rounding up. It was actually episode 244 and the caller lasted 0.8 seconds until Matt yelled at him. I can time stamp it if you want
@justinedwards6117
That was the least relevant point.
The fact that you selected that item to focus on explains your original complaint.
Sidenote: Your description is essentially a timestamp
@@cmack17 I agree. Not relevant until you brought it up. But if you were wrong about that what else are you wrong about?
Good episode huh?
@@justinedwards6117
Reread your response.
What exactly was I wrong about? Be specific.
Your "episode 244" response? 🤣
Repent. Believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and become a new person in this life. Luke 13:3 KJV I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Romans 10:9 KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
There is more garbage in your garbage bible verses than in all the garbage in all the garbage cans in all the homes in all the cities in all the countries in all the world.
Nah, been there done that. Maybe read the entire actual bible, then you might see why I'm now an atheist.
I am already set aside for destruction by God for his glory.
Just report the misinformation bot
Blah, blah, blah and more blah....tedious. 😂
"Evolution says we came from a rock!" Why should I devote time into being a science geek? I have a job, kids, hobbies, and a cat to care for. I don't have time to be a science geek! As an atheist, I'm just saying that I don't have enough evidence to believe in someone's brand of god. 🤣