"If You Believe In God, You Lose Nothing", Except... | Talk Heathen: Throwback
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Also, "why don't you believe in God?" #religion #logic #pascalswager
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WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
NOTES
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
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![DDG & G Herbo - Nosey [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I9Ra0Zc2NlQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"But MY religion doesn't have the same problems as those fake ones, because I believe in it!"
😂😂😂 Never heard that one before!
Religion blames us for its flaws and takes credit for our strengths.
This is one of the saddest types of calls.
That's a really good point.
You articulated so clearly that emotion I feel toward religion. It’s more than anger. It’s seeing completely delusional inept thinking methods taking credit for everything and blaming us for not giving it credit.
Thank god for the successful surgery
@@zen-seanquestion. Do you think that's selfish in some kind of way? Or born out of ego? Genuinely asking, because I have a similar issue.
Like if I stop and hand my last $20 to a cold and hungry family and the first and only thing I hear is, "Oh, thank God. I will pray for you," or some nonsense. It genuinely irritates me, but I keep it to myself.
I should just be happy I'm providing relief and making someone feel thankful, right? Or is it still some weird backhanded compliment?
I never say anything out of the concept of "be normal," but I wonder why it irritated me so much when it shouldn't.
Clever line, mind if I steal it?
@@LOwens-xf8yo Feel free.
I’ve never had the misfortune to be adequately gullible to believe in the nonsense of invisible sky fairies. The idea of suddenly believing in a fiction because someone falsely claims I’ll lose nothing as a result is absolutely ridiculous.
I like the way you wrote that. 😊
@@Jeff_Vader Thanks, I’m happy to be persuaded to change my mind based on evidence but not on empty promises. When my wife and I had our family tree researched, we discovered that nobody in our family had ever been baptised. Like the vast majority in the Nordics, gods play absolutely no part in our lives.
4:00 He traded addiction to alcohol for addiction to religion.
One is every bit as harmful as the other.
@@anushkasekkingstad1300at least the religion won't destroy his kidneys
@@jamescrawford3956 Hahaha ~ It’ll destroy his life but leave his kidneys happy.
Mother "let them suffer" Teresa
She's such a farking miracle
@@davidszeremi1786 She was a nasty, cruel piece of work. No wonder catholics loved her inhumanity.
And she never put her finger in the barrel of any gun. As usual, he's just making stuff up. She helped broker some sort of ceasefire to help get some kids rescued once. She was a monster.
She was pure evil.
@@anushkasekkingstad1300 the scary thing is that she may have believed she was doing the right thing and people will defend her for reasons like that
"One day the urge to drink just stopped instantly. It took years and years of prayer and relapse."
One day, i was suddenly really good at driving. All it took was years and years of experience. 😂
Like going bankrupt, it happened gradually, then all at once. I think that’s from Hemingway or something.
I’m happy for Jeff but don’t get me wrong my alcohol cravings went away very differently. It wasn’t until I accepted that no god was coming to save me that the cravings started to go away, because I accepted that it was on me to save myself. Not some god.
I got my shit together more and more daily and now I don’t feel the need to drink any more. I barely even get cravings. Not as many people are as fortunate I understand but not everyone needs some savior to help them out of these kinds of circumstances either.
(Context: I drank almost daily for years and was always the one that got the drunkest at get togethers.)
You have proof that it's possible without god
@@davidszeremi1786 I’m sorry was this meant to be a question? I didn’t see a question mark.
@@ritchie6162 I'm taking your word for it.
@@davidszeremi1786 gotcha gotcha 👍
12 years sober after a 24 year bender and not one day of it happened because of a deity.
Are people still using Pascal's Wager in 2024?! Even the pro apologetics don't do that!
Even Pascal didn’t use it as a serious tool. It was to demonstrate larger points.
2024 is not an especially enlightened age where people are smarter than they’ve ever been. Stupidity shouldn’t be shocking in 1024, 2024, or 3024.
@@Leith_Crowther True, but again, even the people that argue for Christianity as a living have said "This is not a good tactic..."
Unfortunately the Midwest (where I’m from) and many other places in the US haven’t heard or gone through many of these arguments just yet, we’re a bit behind. I didn’t realize how ridiculous Pascal’s wager was until last year when I really started critically analyzing it.
@@ritchie6162 North Carolinian here - but my family is from Chicago/parts of rural Wisconsin.
They are all believers - but don't go to church, pray at meals etc., so I wasn't raised in a "religious" family.
It's INSANE how hardcore Christianity is here, I hope you are surrounded by people who use their brains more than the people here 😂
Ever notice these theist callers either don't understand or pay absolutely no attention to any explanation that completely lets the air out of the tires of their theistic position?
Five minutes into this call, Jeffrey knows he is full of it. And after that, it's a parade of tapdances, logical fallacies and post hoc rationalizations
I wanted, hoped, implored my imaginary closet goblin, every single day, to put a $20 bill in my jacket pocket. Every day, I checked my pocket, nothing. But I kept imploring the closet goblin anyway. And one day, there was a $20 bill! Thank you, dear Roland.
So, Roland the Closet Goblin is real... Definitely real.
I'm convinced every time Jeffrey clears his throat, he knows he's about to utter something he knows isn't true.
I need Roland in my life 💵
What if...
God is real and this life is a test HOWEVER for reasons we could never understand God is going to reward the Non-believers and punish the believers like the caller?
The idea that Theists risk nothing by believing is so flawed I can't believe anyone still uses that argument.
“So, not only did you not spend ANY time worshipping me, not only did you follow the evidence to logically rule out my existence, you ALSO made an active effort to dissuade other people from believing in me, too.”
“[anxious gulp]”
“What color do you want for your heavenly castle, and do you want it to match your complimentary dragon?”
Wasn't it Homer Simpson who wisely said, "What if you choose the wrong church and instead of making God happier each time you worship you are just making them madder and madder "
Maybe god got bored of using his power to make believers afraid and submit to him so and he will reward non-believers because we broke his spell of control and he wants worthy adversaries to entertain him.
I stop drinking because of a DWI and I never even mentioned god😂
Love it! 24 years of alcoholism, arrested 3 times due to alcohol, directly or indirectly. Last arrest was just over 12 years ago, a DWI at 5:30 on a sunny Saturday afternoon. That one brought my problem's affect on innocent people front and center, and I've not had a drink since, without any god.
When my grandson was 6 months old, I held him in my arms as he was dying. His heart stopped 4 times in the ambulance on the way to a better hospital that had the needed medical equipment. Upon arrival, he was put in a coma, and the doctor said to us, "I can't tell you how serious this is." He was in the hospital for 6 more months.
Today, at age 18, I joke with him, "See, not praying works, you're alive." Instead of of praying, I thought about kidnapping the doctor and forcing them to get their act together and act quicker because I knew he was dying, then surrender when and if I made it to Santa Barbara alive. Of course, I wouldn't have done it, but I certainly was weighing my options. I had no free will to think otherwise.
Its really quite tragic how many humans need to believe they’re a marionette with no autonomy over their own behavior unless an invisible deity commands or allows it.
This dude sounds so much like kitbogas old man voice filter I can’t unhear it
" ignoring the mrs" is whats keeping my marriage alive 😮
Where do I hear the moon man call?
I asked my mom why she believed in Christianity and she responded that Christianity lead her to that conclusion, so I asked what lead her to Christianity and she said her pastor during her childhood, and she sees nothing illogical about that conclusion and gets mad if I bring up anything about religion now
2:28 Every time ignore my Mrs, l get hit😂
How is it you lose nothing if you believe. Because if the believers are wrong they miss the heavenly glory and being with their god. So, how is that missing nothing?
Everything I've read in the Lord of the Rings points to Gandalf and Eru. You want proof of Gandalf? Boom, first chapter, Gandalf performs magic at Bilbo's party. Proof.
He was so far gone that he was completely oblivious to the arguments you were making. He didn’t understand any of it
As a 25year opi addict who now has 15 months clean i can assure everyone that God had NOTHING to do with me getting clean but had a huge part in my downward spiral of addiction
Good on you for getting clean. Are you, by any chance, a NIN fan?
@@Jeff_Vader of course. . that was my type of music in my addiction...Sound Garden ,Audio slave,Mother love Bone, Pearl Jam,NIN Collective Soul etc
@RupertMay it was the way you wrote "in my downward spiral", you sounded like a person in the know.
@@Jeff_Vader I wouldn't say " in the know" but most assuredly in search for "truth" will I ever find it?? Of course not but it is the quest that drives me and makes me homesick for a place that no longer exist
people that claim God helped them stop drinking alcohol because they prayed over and over again are so fucking arrogant because the same fucking evil. God didn’t do anything for the praying parents of a dying child who has cancer. The arrogance to think that you are so special, but those people are not is mind-boggling.
The only monsters on this planet, is humankind... No devil ( other then thump) no demons others then ( Marjorie t g ) .... remember foks Greed is one of the big fat roots of Evil !!!!
Ah yes Pascal's wager...let me go to the imagination races and bet on this one specific imaginary horse because it's got to be the winner as I believe it's the only horse even allowed in the race...
Spoiler alert: caller not too bright…!!
I realy like this show, but this call was handled really badly.
Sigh, so god chose to personally intervene in your alcoholism, but doesn't intervene in child murder or molestation. Right. It's all part of his mysterious plan.
Delusional 😢
I've been in recovery for 3 months, it's still hard to stay sober, I can't be around that it. Nobody told me how much of an uphill battle this was gonna be,but I'm finding that the only way to "recover" is replacing your addiction with another. I've got myself into the gym,picked up healthier hobbies, I have an addicts mind.. There's still this lingering feeling that I'm gonna slip up and relapse. It is hard man...it ain't easy by any means..
people who say "oh bro just control yourself." Don't get it.
I'm doing this without a "God belief",no it's not admirable, I'm not a hero, I'm just doing what's right for myself. Even then,these Christ cultists keep telling me "oh, just pray for the demons to not posses you,and you won't have the problem addiction anymore." Or they'll say "God is working his miracles on you,you should be thanking him for his blessings." Both comments feel extremely insulting... Don't listen to Christians when it comes to sobriety. They speak out of pure ignorance.
Good for you. Keep doing what you're doing.
It's a golden oldie, but...
Knock knock
Who's there?
Jesus
What do you want?
To save you
Save me from what?
To save you from what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in.
Christianity is such a crock of nonsense it's baffling people still take it seriously.
That's absolutely true. Must be in the Bible somewhere. 🙃🥳
lol, mother theresa was a monster
No painkillers needed and dare you need medical treatment when there’s praying time.
She followed what she thought God demanded of her, not because she was a humanist or “a good person”. We can only be glad that she did not think her God wanted her to murder people (-> thuggee) or do mass poisonings. She’d done it with the same energy.
She was a sadis!
@@markwoods4439 Sadist
@@IamValak-j9e Yes, god is a Sadist if he’s real!!
@markwoods4439 we were referring to mother Theresa but gawd works too
Christian: "I'm not going to eat this sandwich, because some guy who owns two private jets told me that one day I'll get Magic Fillet Mignon if I give him all my money."
Me: "Well, you're passing up a perfectly fine sandwich needlessly. And you'll go sandwich-less for the rest of your life while that guy flies around laughing and counting your money."
When believers get painted in a corner they play like they don’t understand.
Or they abuse and gaslight you, or deflect or salad talk or come up with all the sick defense mechanisms and in the end if that doesn't work they run away.
@raccuia1 before running away, they'll "pray for you".
Nice sounding guy who refused to analyze his own imbecilic belief system.
My Mom use to say: _We don't believe in a God, because we aren't weak minded_
And she was right.
Very nice. 😊
She was absolutely correct
Naw, belief in a god doesn’t necessarily mean one is weak minded.. plenty of people who were just indoctrinated at a young age and it has more to do w conditioning than will power or strength of one’s mind. I know plenty of very strong willed and very intelligent thinkers who believe in a god. One could argue that they have weak standards of evidence in that one area but to just make a statement about one’s overall mind based on ONE thing they’re brainwashed on kinda demonstrates lazy thinking imo..
I used to be a believer cuz I was raised in it from childhood. I didn’t “become more intelligent” when I became an atheist, I just decided to be more honest about my justifications for these beliefs
@@bms77 It sounds like you're not seeing the picture from the same side as lifelong non-believers. Children can be conditioned and indoctrinated but if you reach adulthood and still actually believe the stories are factual, that a god exists, that heaven exists, that jesus was real and the bible means something then you have a weak mind. All of the garbage you take in from a religion affects how you live your life, controlled by a belief, a church or a religion and not having a weak mind allows you to see right through it.
@@bms77 I agree that indoctrination is a massive problem and that we’re very fortunate that, in the Nordic countries indoctrination of our children in our schools has been a crime for over 30 years. My wife and I were well protected by that legislation when we were young schoolgirls, my wife became head teacher of our young daughters’ school. Any staff member caught bringing a bible onto school property was made clearly aware that such behaviour was completely unacceptable, equivalent to bringing weapons or child pornography. They would have ended their career in education if caught. Nobody ever tried their luck and got caught. She also advised local churches that clergy were prohibited from setting foot anywhere on school property. Some clergy arrogantly continued to take a short cut across school sports fields. One day,, my wife asked police to enforce her child safety measures. Police patrols stationed themselves at the school end of the fields. Clergy were stopped and warned that next time they would be arrested and prosecuted for trespass. They were then sent back the way they had come and forced to walk the long way round. In the Nordics, very few people believe in gods, which is very healthy. As a sometime Crown Prosecutor, I agree that the standard of evidence those people choose to accept is completely laughable. I accept that you didn’t become more intelligent as an atheist but would suggest your mind might have been disposed to critical thinking. We personally know nobody we would describe as “intelligent” or a “thinker” who admits to believing in gods.
Getting religious ads on an anti religious program is wild.
"If I grew up in a Muslim country, I'd still have a choice to accept JHC." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Depends on the specific country to be fair - I am VERY anti Islam, don't think I'm defending it please lol
The lead singer of Steppenwolf ("Born to be Wild") was a german (like me). He told that in these times they smoked everything that could be lit.
And one day he woke up, and his first thought was "Where is something to smoke?". When he realized that this was his really his very first thought, he decided "No, I do not want to be controlled by that stuff" and stopped in this very moment.
And made it,
No God needed.
Although that in itself doesn't prove that it wasn't in fact god who helped him.
Pascal's Wager? Zombie apologetics. (yawn)
Zombie apocalypse?
You waste your life if it turns out you don't actually have evidence to justify your belief.
I’m guessing it’s because his belief in a god makes him feel good, gives him purpose and feeds his ego/makes him feel special.
All the above is a powerful drug.
So powerful that it makes him oblivious to blatant contradictions, logic and last but not least evidence
How does believing in a higher power cause you to waste your life?
@@gatheringleaves If heaven is in the equation then yes, believing in magic can cause you to waste your life
@@gatheringleaves every second wasted believing a lie is a second lost that could've been used to do anything else that's actually useful.
@@gatheringleaveshow does believing in a higher power not waste your life?
"If you believe in god, you lose nothing."
On the contrary - and never mind which god among thousands are you supposed to guess right about - if you try to build on a contradictory belief, you have constructed a system in which ANYTHING can be inferred.
So IT MATTERS VERY MUCH whether you uncritically accept claims about the existence of something that in fact hasn't been shown to exist. If you're open to being gullible on this, how do you determine where you aren't gullible?
Gullibility exacts a HUGE cost. Once you start, there's no end to it.
And worse still, there is the Sunk Costs Fallacy, in which victims of deception or abuse hold out for just a little longer in the vain hope that things will somehow turn out right. You're in so deep that it's hard to write it off as a loss. So you invest a little more, hoping that it will turn around. But it never does.
That's the price of being gullible, of believing these god claims on bad evidence. Lose nothing? You can lose EVERYTHING.
Doesn’t even account for how said beliefs can completely change the way you interact with the people around you.
God gets the credit for all things people think are good.
But when horrible things happen. Where is the GOD of love and prevention? Seems he should get credit for doing nothing as well.
I'm a recovering alcoholic and when I quit I 100% did it myself with of course help. It was my fault when I drank. I sure as hell won't give someone else credit for my sobriety.
I wish you well for your future. Alcohol is a hard drug to quit.
@@Paulus449 Appreciate it.
My life is better in many ways now Im not religious. I wish I had never been religious.
The very notion that whether you believe something or not, is based on some cost/benefit analysis is absurd. However, beyond that, and the problem of picking the right religion, is the notion that it would work. That a god as described by Christianity wouldn't see right through the motivation. "Well, you didn't `really` believe, but you pretended just in case, so...ehh come on in!" It's really a mockery of the entire concept.
Jeffrey from Maryland's first question "what got you to the conclusion that there's no God"? was mishandled - as athiests the only answer to that is "we haven't come to that conclusion, nor any conclusion, about God's existence. Convince us of it, Jeffrey!"
Unless the hosts identify themselves as “hard atheists” or “gnostic” atheists lol. Some atheists do claim and come to conclusion that a god doesn’t exist.. I think it’s more honest to be an agnostic atheist but that’s just me..
“If you believe in god, you lose nothing”
I served a two year Mormon mission. Two years and ten thousand dollars was lost.
Not to mention all of the mental and verbal abuse I endured growing up in an environment that constantly told me I was “nothing”, that only god could make something out of me, and that the things I ACTUALLY enjoy doing were a “waste of my time”.
"If You Believe In God, You Lose Nothing"
I would lose my dignity, and surely have lost my sanity.
He just keeps rambaling on and dont listen. Theres no helping this guy.
It breaks my heart to see how gullible people are. It’s like adults, speaking like a little babies.
Me:
Do mentally handicapped people go to heaven?
Christian:
Yes.
Me:
So you mean to tell me GOD sacrificed his son, when all he had to do was just make us all mentally handicapped?!
😂😅😊
Christian:
Well GOD gives us all free will.
Me:
Are you saying mentally handicapped people don't have free will?
...& if you are, then why did GOD make mentally handicapped people??
The Bible has several instances of Human Sacrifices where god demands a parent to sacrifice their children or others and I'm not even counting Abraham. King Mesha of Moab sacrificed his crown prince in 2 kings 3:27). King Ahaz of Judah sacrificed his son in (2 Kings 16:3).
King Manasseh of Judah sacrificed his sons by fire (2 Chronicles 33:6).
Jephthah also sacrificed his daughter after promising it to god in Judges 11-12.
Then in Numbers 31, Moses commanded to take vengeance upon the Midianites. After they killed all the men, women, and boys, only saving little virgin girls(btw, when I say virgins, we're talking most likely preteens, since most girls were married off when they had their period, so most of the women who were killed that weren't virgins, were most likely 13 and older) were kept as slaves. In fact, the bible counts 32,000 virgin girls taken as slaves. And then god demanded out of all the things they took as prizes of war, including the slaves, that 1 of every 100 be offered up to him as a burnt offering. So 32 virgin girls were killed to simply satiate god's sadism because no way a benevolent god would condone any of this.
You should have mentioned Jephthah in Judges where he promised to sacrifice the first thing that came to him at home, which turned out to be his own daughter. Unlike Abraham and Isaac, Jephthah went through with that human sacrifice and God did not stop it. (Judges Chapter 11) Thus, under particular circumstances, the Bible says God is okay with human sacrifice.
episode was weeks away from flattening the curve. we were enjoying last weeks of freedom and order and we didn't know it.
If Mother Teresa was a miracle, and for the moment ignore the fact that I personally think she’s nearly pure evil, how did “the miracle” save her? Did that violate free will? And if violating free will is OK, why violating free will such a problem in other circumstances that makes evil people okay?
Another thing abusers do that came up in this call, if you do something wrong it's YOUR fault, but if you do something good it's because of ME.
Drunk on Religion is as bad as drunk on Alchohol
Either way... you talk more Bollocks.
I hear alot of people talk about Abraham being willing sacrifice his child, but why doesn't anyone talk about Jephtha who actually went through with it?
If you have to deeply research the Bible to find why it doesn't make sense, then it's not a path to salvation for most people. This is a stupid way to give the most important message of all time. Is god supposed to be stupid? Self contradictory logic
WHY DO PEOPLE PRAISE GOD ( WHO DOESNT EXIST ) FOR HELPING THEM WITH A DRUG OR ALCOHOL ADDIDICTION , OR A SERIOUS MEDICAL PROBLEM . BUT THEY DONT CONDEMN GOD FOR GIVING THEM THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE !
« You lose nothing »….except your connection to reality and all your critical thinking skills.
God's love IS conditional. If you don't love God, he not only won't love you he'll condemn you to eternal hell.
The word gaslighting has gone so viral that everyone is using and using it wrong. Lol
Jen Aldrich is amazing!
self flatulating...lol
we could do with a maga - wacko event
The god of the Bible does not have unconditional love. If you screw up Jesus says he never knew you, if you screw up the old testament God kills you or has someone enslave or kill you. Screwing up can be as simple as lusting after any woman, eating a piece of fruit, or worshiping the right god the wrong way.
When you're desperate to believe what you believe,
You make it up as you go along!!!!
Some people are just beyond help!
Repent. Believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and become a new person in this life. Luke 13:3 KJV I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Romans 10:9 KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
That is not going to convince anyone especially those that already believe in your religion.
IF you are correct then a lot of innocent people (even heroes) will not be saved according to a lot of christians and the bible because god created them in a certain environment. Very bad people will also be forgiven and go to heaven instead of heroes and etc. Your religion makes no sense and it has a lot of contradictions. The writers of the gospels are anonymous. Moses/god did cruel things and approved slavery according to the bible. (Numbers 31 and Exodus 21)
Every time you spam this bullshit here, I'm more and more convinced that you're wrong.
Mark, please stop these lies of the Death Eaters! The only true savior is Harry Potter! His truth was shown to us in books AND movies! You fell for the wrong Death Eaters but don't worry, there is still hope! Return to Harry Potter and stop following false Muggle stories. We both know that in your heart you know the truth, the truth of Harry Potter!
These kinds of comments are the most egotistical stuff, its sad how you think youre doing good while trying to impose your will over those who don't think the way you do. Your approach is insulting and selfish.
See academics just don't understand how to speak to people without refined educations.