Like always this is what I do: 1) Watch a tierlist video to see what performs best and get some inspiration what to play for the next weeks 2) Fall in love with one of the lowest specs 3) Completely ignore the tierlist because I only clear low to mid keys Served me well the last time considering the fun i had :D Still like those videos. (And I mainly skip to the classes i like most tbh :/ )
I'm playing brewmaster I think its the most fun throwing kegs and stuff. But it does feel squishy, like stagger doesn't have near as much impact as it use too. I feel like I'm constantly in red stagger in a 13
Also just hit 3k rio with my brewmaster. Weirldy it feels tankier than my protpal...Passively of course. Like if I don't have any def cd on my pal, I get smacked. Brew is much more relaxing thanks to stagger. My real struggle with BrM right now is how hard it is to generate good threat quickly.
No way Veng can be placed above Prot, just look at your graph at the end. Making a tier list on the top 10 players is .00001% of the playerbase, I think it’s flawed logic
100% agree that other tanks simply need to be buffed and keep prot paladin where it is and most people shouldnt really focus too much about the "meta" when they'll never even reach +16's and higher lol
Brewmasters B tier is very generous. We get steamrolled if we dont have a defensive in multimob pulls in anything above a 12 and even then it's still super risky. We can't do dungeons with anything that isn't a resto Shammy or pally. It feels like we're constantly in the red Stagger-wise or Health-wise. There's only 4 BM tanks in the top 200. Those are playing with premade groups and not PUGS. Meanwhile Pallys are pugging 11s-12s like nothing :|
prot paladin is tanky, does a lot of damage, and has utility. i think other tanks could match it if they had group benefits as well. think bloodworms, or guard. i agree paladin feels good to play so they shouldnt nerf it, but buff other things to match it.
Remember it is meta. That means doing content even players with a meta class won't do. If you simply go as high as the vault scales your rewards you are totally fine.😊
Prot Pala main here. I like that blizz buffed pala but i also hate it. Before buffs i do all dungeons in 10/11. Now in 13. But earlyer in season it was like: oh shit a Pala did all Keys above 10. Now is Like: ahh only 13 with the Meta klass.... Ez.
Yep I agree I dont like being meta: prior I could do higher keys than most pallys due to skill so my % out of all Pallies was like the top 1% which was good for pugging but now Im competing against the likes of Yoda… :(
Death's caress or DRW. That's not the real issue, sure opening the pull is hard without bones or runic power but the main problem will always be getting one shoted at higher keys. Sometimes you can have DRW with vamp up and still get steam rolled. Even stacking IBF can be not enough. Especially if we want to pull the same pulls as others tanks.
Is there any addon that tells me when to tount boss from tank nr2? I want to tank but this makes it hard for me to track stacks on second tank who gets angry 😂 thx
Blood DK’s struggle to survive because they listen to class discords tell them to sim for damage talents and trinkets. Maximize survivability (in a way attack power supports this) and heavily rely on healer externals on pulls. Tank trinkets can keep you alive in a pinch.
This, and only this. So, I’m a healer and the other day I decided to invite a BDK to a 13 NW pug (just for fun) and I was massively surprised that his HP was not dancing around 100 to 1 every second… I mean he was literally tanking a lot! Then I decided to check his talent and there you go… he was using basically every single defensive talent he could + the cloak from Palace and tanking trinkets, and you know what the funniest part is? He was still doing 1m overall dmg lol. I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again, as long as you know how to properly play your tank, your damage will be there anyways.
lol. top BDKs are doing 15s. prot pals are onto 19s. i'm a BDK main at heart but usually end up playing prot pal as its just way less stressful and more rewarding.
@ He was using the tanking trinket from SV (can’t remember the name), it is the one where you use taunt and you get a defensive shield or something, and the other was the scarab trinket from Palace.
Just for the record, the people in the class discord are either 1) the best players of the class or 2) people who get their feedback by the best players or 3) people handing out the theorycrafting which the best players work with. Pretty wild to blame them for giving maladvice as a random randy. Besides the fact that this particular advice is 100% correct. Since for Blood DKs - like most other tanks as well - all secondaries have defensive benefits and the difference is incredibly small - the best bet is to just optimize for dps. And unless youre one of those 0,1% title chasers, you absolutely dont need to use even a single defensive trinket. If you're dropping in a sub 15 key as a blood dk, thats not a matter gear, but in 99 out of 100 cases you either failing on your rotation or your cooldown management.
DK really needs more passive mitigation, and less self healing. Something closer to VDH. The design just causes tanking as one to become increasingly difficult as you go up keys -- you start to get into scenarios where if you aren't gcd perfect you're dead. Take a look at DK rotations nowadays too it's gotten pretty complex when the cooldown repertoire is considered. I think I'd rather see them be more of an absorb shield tank, and a lot less reactive healing. I do think pretty much all tanks need a higher baseline mitigation than they have currently. Dragonflight was honestly way better for tanks.
After Guardian Druid bored me to death (Elune is the worst, DotC is dreamy in practice but trash in M+) I went back to my beloved Brewmaster. Meta be damn, I'm sticking with it- and suffering. I don't care!! It's the only FUN tank- but I do suffer in 10-11 with PuGs. 😮💨
I feel the same way love my monk but as one creator stated it feels like a death march in M+. My warrior and paladin are 6-10 levels lower but feel stronger and that should not be. I agree the changes they made I like for the most part with the Peril affix which just destroys pugs. That should be a level 12 affix if it stays in the game.
It's no surprise that Paladin is #1, they got so much love this season. Great damage, the easiest interrupts in the game, poison cleanse, immunities for themselves and others, and even a damn battle rez!!
You know as much as I appreciate blizzard doing their best to balance and doing regular balance patches, it tends to be a bit of a pain for people like me who don’t play super often or hardcore. I’ll do one or two m+ dungeons every week or so and i go to and from different classes and games. Last I tuned in, prot paladin was an absolute meme it was so bad. I think if the wow team took the approach the OW team does - 1 patch at the start of the season, 1 patch 2 weeks in to triage, and one halfway through the season that would be a lot more digestible. Sure, in theory balance could be off by a lot more, but people also wouldn’t be totally confused at what’s good and what sucks constantly.
A couple of Chinese brewmasters are throwing your stats way off there. B tier is generous but brew are really squishy. We literally cant do the same pulls that both Prot tanks can because we just die. And only having 2 (3-4 if an attack is magic based or a charged hit) major defensives really hurt.
How on earth is prot paladin tankier? It didn't get any defensive buffs since it was considered trash tier. The damage is what made it meta added to the utility. Warrior is tankier and probably druid too.
Surprised to see VDH this high in the meta tbh, I never see them in keys and on the rare occurrence I do see them, they seem extremely squishy. Also, as for bears, I wonder what is putting them above warriors? Warriors seem so much tankier than bears.
You probably did not see any skilled DH. They have good mitigation, it's just very different compared to warriors. Most unskilled DH are just jumping around super fast and kissing the floor quickly!
@@chend2217 How? Don't they just have 2 jumps with a fairly long cooldown? From what I know, it's go in with your spikes and fel dev, then when those are up you jump out. I don't see how you can just be constantly jumping around like you say to "barely kiss the floor"?
In demon form you are a demigod. It s all about keeping it rolling as much as possible and outside of it, immo aura, sigil of flame, fire brand, spikes, the whole package. You have a long distance grp silence every min, fear cc for another min or so, and insane mobility. A highly skilled Vengeance is a beast
Good video and thank you! I am a Lich King baby and after these years wanted a new aspect of the game. So I tried tanking for the first time as a Blood DK. After a few dungeons I was always on the cusp of death - even on trash. Heroic not Mythic. I was wondering what the heck I’m doing wrong. I had the rotation right from icy-veins.. Maybe it’s not all me :)
Bro prot war is 2nd best not anything else. Also bdk is not as bad as people say. Audience here is not pushing 15+ and dk can handle everything else with ease
Sorry for my opinion, but there was a time in Blizzard when Balance was very well done, but again I see a lot of competent people taking care of the BUFF + NERF system. Nothing else happens but what is good is nerfed what is bad is buffed. What is good should be left alone and what is bad should be fixed. This is my view
the issues with these type of videos, is they arent meant for the standard player, as they are measured from 15's 16's + key.. how about a ranking for the average player, 5-10 keys maybe?
M+ isn't just whether you're able to run +17 on your tank... I like marcelian but this video feels pointless for the majority of the audience, most people push 8-12's and this video is only comparing top players doing 16,17,18... If this is just saying "every tank is viable in 10s" then this video should be called "Tier List in High M+"
Like always this is what I do:
1) Watch a tierlist video to see what performs best and get some inspiration what to play for the next weeks
2) Fall in love with one of the lowest specs
3) Completely ignore the tierlist because I only clear low to mid keys
Served me well the last time considering the fun i had :D
Still like those videos. (And I mainly skip to the classes i like most tbh :/ )
I'm playing brewmaster I think its the most fun throwing kegs and stuff. But it does feel squishy, like stagger doesn't have near as much impact as it use too. I feel like I'm constantly in red stagger in a 13
I agree why don't they just make brewmaster tanky like the rest I don get it!!!!!
Also just hit 3k rio with my brewmaster. Weirldy it feels tankier than my protpal...Passively of course. Like if I don't have any def cd on my pal, I get smacked. Brew is much more relaxing thanks to stagger. My real struggle with BrM right now is how hard it is to generate good threat quickly.
No way Veng can be placed above Prot, just look at your graph at the end. Making a tier list on the top 10 players is .00001% of the playerbase, I think it’s flawed logic
Making a tier list using data about the top players makes 100% sense, what's the point of evaluating a class based in suboptimal data?
it's not flawed logic if anything is flawed it's you
All these try hards like they are making money lol just pick wants entertaining. Let’s be gamers not analysts
@@foreverhumanpodcast try to do a 12 with a brewmaster monk as a healer and you will find out
@@analogguy4467 then don’t do 12s. lol or touch grass.
Cool video bro. All the tanks are good, got it.
100% agree that other tanks simply need to be buffed and keep prot paladin where it is and most people shouldnt really focus too much about the "meta" when they'll never even reach +16's and higher lol
Brewmasters B tier is very generous. We get steamrolled if we dont have a defensive in multimob pulls in anything above a 12 and even then it's still super risky. We can't do dungeons with anything that isn't a resto Shammy or pally. It feels like we're constantly in the red Stagger-wise or Health-wise. There's only 4 BM tanks in the top 200. Those are playing with premade groups and not PUGS. Meanwhile Pallys are pugging 11s-12s like nothing :|
Brewmasters are about 3 keys below prot paladins, so not THAT bad, but significantly weaker still
prot paladin is tanky, does a lot of damage, and has utility. i think other tanks could match it if they had group benefits as well. think bloodworms, or guard. i agree paladin feels good to play so they shouldnt nerf it, but buff other things to match it.
Remember it is meta. That means doing content even players with a meta class won't do. If you simply go as high as the vault scales your rewards you are totally fine.😊
prot warrior s reroll to prot pally thats why no highest keys are pushed on that class
Prot Pala main here. I like that blizz buffed pala but i also hate it. Before buffs i do all dungeons in 10/11. Now in 13. But earlyer in season it was like: oh shit a Pala did all Keys above 10. Now is Like: ahh only 13 with the Meta klass.... Ez.
Yep I agree I dont like being meta: prior I could do higher keys than most pallys due to skill so my % out of all Pallies was like the top 1% which was good for pugging but now Im competing against the likes of Yoda… :(
Imagine crying about your spec being good.
The level of egomania, lmao.
@@CedricBassman Egomania? Has nothing to do with that.
blood Dk just need a way to have a bone armor charge or two on pull without having to hit a mob.
Death's caress or DRW. That's not the real issue, sure opening the pull is hard without bones or runic power but the main problem will always be getting one shoted at higher keys. Sometimes you can have DRW with vamp up and still get steam rolled. Even stacking IBF can be not enough. Especially if we want to pull the same pulls as others tanks.
@@Opposegaming that is the least of BDKs worry
Thanks for the video , got both blood dk / dh / prot warrior and you are correct. Although the most fun to play is dh
Is there any addon that tells me when to tount boss from tank nr2? I want to tank but this makes it hard for me to track stacks on second tank who gets angry 😂 thx
From where you getting the info I’m literally looking at archon and the only A tier is port warrior, B tier are Vdh, monk and THEN bear, so..
Blood DK’s struggle to survive because they listen to class discords tell them to sim for damage talents and trinkets.
Maximize survivability (in a way attack power supports this) and heavily rely on healer externals on pulls. Tank trinkets can keep you alive in a pinch.
This, and only this. So, I’m a healer and the other day I decided to invite a BDK to a 13 NW pug (just for fun) and I was massively surprised that his HP was not dancing around 100 to 1 every second… I mean he was literally tanking a lot! Then I decided to check his talent and there you go… he was using basically every single defensive talent he could + the cloak from Palace and tanking trinkets, and you know what the funniest part is? He was still doing 1m overall dmg lol. I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again, as long as you know how to properly play your tank, your damage will be there anyways.
Lemme see them tank trinkets. I'll swap out XD
lol. top BDKs are doing 15s. prot pals are onto 19s. i'm a BDK main at heart but usually end up playing prot pal as its just way less stressful and more rewarding.
@ He was using the tanking trinket from SV (can’t remember the name), it is the one where you use taunt and you get a defensive shield or something, and the other was the scarab trinket from Palace.
Just for the record, the people in the class discord are either
1) the best players of the class or
2) people who get their feedback by the best players or
3) people handing out the theorycrafting which the best players work with.
Pretty wild to blame them for giving maladvice as a random randy. Besides the fact that this particular advice is 100% correct. Since for Blood DKs - like most other tanks as well - all secondaries have defensive benefits and the difference is incredibly small - the best bet is to just optimize for dps. And unless youre one of those 0,1% title chasers, you absolutely dont need to use even a single defensive trinket. If you're dropping in a sub 15 key as a blood dk, thats not a matter gear, but in 99 out of 100 cases you either failing on your rotation or your cooldown management.
DK really needs more passive mitigation, and less self healing. Something closer to VDH. The design just causes tanking as one to become increasingly difficult as you go up keys -- you start to get into scenarios where if you aren't gcd perfect you're dead. Take a look at DK rotations nowadays too it's gotten pretty complex when the cooldown repertoire is considered.
I think I'd rather see them be more of an absorb shield tank, and a lot less reactive healing. I do think pretty much all tanks need a higher baseline mitigation than they have currently. Dragonflight was honestly way better for tanks.
How did that Blood DK look like it had Paladin Wings there at the beginning?
its a healer buff
After Guardian Druid bored me to death (Elune is the worst, DotC is dreamy in practice but trash in M+) I went back to my beloved Brewmaster. Meta be damn, I'm sticking with it- and suffering. I don't care!! It's the only FUN tank- but I do suffer in 10-11 with PuGs. 😮💨
I feel the same way love my monk but as one creator stated it feels like a death march in M+. My warrior and paladin are 6-10 levels lower but feel stronger and that should not be. I agree the changes they made I like for the most part with the Peril affix which just destroys pugs. That should be a level 12 affix if it stays in the game.
It's no surprise that Paladin is #1, they got so much love this season. Great damage, the easiest interrupts in the game, poison cleanse, immunities for themselves and others, and even a damn battle rez!!
Pumped for this update and I haven't even watched it yet. Thank you!
You know as much as I appreciate blizzard doing their best to balance and doing regular balance patches, it tends to be a bit of a pain for people like me who don’t play super often or hardcore.
I’ll do one or two m+ dungeons every week or so and i go to and from different classes and games. Last I tuned in, prot paladin was an absolute meme it was so bad.
I think if the wow team took the approach the OW team does - 1 patch at the start of the season, 1 patch 2 weeks in to triage, and one halfway through the season that would be a lot more digestible. Sure, in theory balance could be off by a lot more, but people also wouldn’t be totally confused at what’s good and what sucks constantly.
A couple of Chinese brewmasters are throwing your stats way off there. B tier is generous but brew are really squishy. We literally cant do the same pulls that both Prot tanks can because we just die. And only having 2 (3-4 if an attack is magic based or a charged hit) major defensives really hurt.
How on earth is prot paladin tankier? It didn't get any defensive buffs since it was considered trash tier.
The damage is what made it meta added to the utility.
Warrior is tankier and probably druid too.
Surprised to see VDH this high in the meta tbh, I never see them in keys and on the rare occurrence I do see them, they seem extremely squishy. Also, as for bears, I wonder what is putting them above warriors? Warriors seem so much tankier than bears.
You probably did not see any skilled DH. They have good mitigation, it's just very different compared to warriors. Most unskilled DH are just jumping around super fast and kissing the floor quickly!
@@chend2217 How? Don't they just have 2 jumps with a fairly long cooldown? From what I know, it's go in with your spikes and fel dev, then when those are up you jump out. I don't see how you can just be constantly jumping around like you say to "barely kiss the floor"?
In demon form you are a demigod. It s all about keeping it rolling as much as possible and outside of it, immo aura, sigil of flame, fire brand, spikes, the whole package. You have a long distance grp silence every min, fear cc for another min or so, and insane mobility. A highly skilled Vengeance is a beast
Good video and thank you! I am a Lich King baby and after these years wanted a new aspect of the game. So I tried tanking for the first time as a Blood DK. After a few dungeons I was always on the cusp of death - even on trash. Heroic not Mythic. I was wondering what the heck I’m doing wrong. I had the rotation right from icy-veins.. Maybe it’s not all me :)
ask other blood dks, dont use icy veins
AT LAST! WE GET THE FLOWERS WE DESERVE!
Prot warrior forever!
Bro prot war is 2nd best not anything else. Also bdk is not as bad as people say. Audience here is not pushing 15+ and dk can handle everything else with ease
So bored of prot meta now, it's so dull
Sorry for my opinion, but there was a time in Blizzard when Balance was very well done, but again I see a lot of competent people taking care of the BUFF + NERF system. Nothing else happens but what is good is nerfed what is bad is buffed. What is good should be left alone and what is bad should be fixed. This is my view
the issues with these type of videos, is they arent meant for the standard player, as they are measured from 15's 16's + key.. how about a ranking for the average player, 5-10 keys maybe?
Teşekkür ederim, yeniyim videolarından öğreniyorum ve uyguluyorum.
Blood is definitely not good atm! I’m still playing it but compared to either the of the prot tanks I’m way down the list lol
i legit mained prot warrior just to be able to do m+.. I guess I'll swap to paladin..
"Vengeance is slightly... better than prot warrior" I mean yea sure is if you only compare 15+
How tf has brew gotten nothing this season, were struggling out here
i wish brewmaster would be better - sadge
Same man, needs buffs!
M+ isn't just whether you're able to run +17 on your tank...
I like marcelian but this video feels pointless for the majority of the audience, most people push 8-12's and this video is only comparing top players doing 16,17,18...
If this is just saying "every tank is viable in 10s" then this video should be called "Tier List in High M+"
I swear if Equinox is only that rank, he's prolly burned out, must be hard maining Brew
True, if he cannot make it higher, it's rough
Thank you for TLF :)
Dk de sangue precisa voltar a stackar escudo da morte
The wallpapers are anything but 4k
Make tanks tanky again ffs.... or ay the very least nerf the white swings. Any of these will give heals breathing room
So bored of tanking M+ atm
1st i hope! Best regards! :D
Close enough! all the best :)
Well well well
How the tables have turned huh?
paladins and mages , blizzard worships these 2 classes since tbc for some reason
The trash within.
Tier list this, tier list that. how about just have fun again? Play turtle WoW.
Pretty sure they had a bad data leak not long ago