I've always interpreted Galadriel's ability to read Sauron's mind as a consequence of her physical ownership of an Elven Ring of Power. With the connection between the One Ring and all other Great Rings being based on Sauron's force of Will, and how it is stated that if Sauron possessed the One Ring, he would be able to read any other Ring Bearer, I believe the connection goes in both directions. Since at the creation of the One Ring, when Sauron first placed it on his finger, it is said that the Elves were immediately aware of him and removed their Rings promptly. But, after the loss of the One they returned to using their Rings regularly, so it seems that a Ring Bearer can see into the minds of others specifically connected through their Rings. It also seems that since the Elven Rings were bound up with the power of the One to Rule them All, the mind reading does go both ways between wielders. However, the problem facing Sauron is that he is not in physical possession of the One, so he only has moderate strength left to try and use to read the minds of the other Ring Bearers. But Galadriel, being in physical possession of her Ring has the advantage in having her strength of mind amplified by her Ring, enough power to still block out the being who's Will is bound to all the Rings. But she is clear that if Sauron gains physical control of the One Ring again her mind will not be able to repel him as long as she wore her Ring. So, physical possession appears to be the source of her strength over Sauron's Will and Mind. He cannot shut out a Ring Bearer because he is connected to all the Rings in spirit, but he also cannot override the Will of a Ring Bearer who is physically wearing their Ring unless he himself is physically wearing the One. Hope I explained this well enough, telepathy in general fascinates me, no matter what work of fiction it is in lol. Thanks for the video!
The other rings were not made by Sauron but Sauron made the one ring to rule the others. I think the rest is true. Sauron isn't at full power anymore because of what happened in the Silmarillion, so his mind reading wouldn't be able to reach that far. All that remained was his eye. I think that if he had the ring his mind reading and will would have been amplified.
I always had the same interpretation reading it as well, I thought that perhaps her nobility and age and having been in the light of the two trees further amplified her ability. I always felt it was primarily because of her possession of the ring nenya made through Sauron's design though not with him present, that was what allowed her to perceive him at such a distance. With the three Elven rings he became aware of them when he put on his ring and they were immediately aware of him and his deception once he tied all his power into the ring and put it on, the connection to all the rings is still there he just has no power over those connections without the one ring.
Galadriel having a gift of insight into others from her earliest years seems to be a considerable difference in how the new Amazon series is portraying her compared to Unfinished Tales and other works. One of the complaints many have voiced, is that in an attempt to have an action-based hero with a name we recognise, they have made the character rather unlike the one we know.
The Nature of Middle Earth is a heavy read but has so much rich, sometimes contradictory lore that can make it difficult to absorb if you’re bent on “cannon”. The best part says that all the Istari came in the first age to aid middle earth and Melian was their chief! I believe she was instrumental in teaching the special insight shared by Galadriel, Olorin, and Elrond.
Oh yeah, it's a heavy read, but really interesting. I think much of HoMe material (and NoMe) have to be taken in their intended form - they're scraps of writings, many of which were abandoned for a reason.
@@NerdoftheRings yes but we’ll never know what the Silmarillion would have actually looked like if Tolkien had lived longer to see it published. I think we’d see Istari in the first age.
Reminds me of something that John Howe said during his work on the films: “There’s a tendency to expect too much of Tolkien, and expect answers that he never intended to give.“ Yet not getting not getting hooked on “cannon” actually fulfills his vision in a backwards kind of way; the purpose behind the Legendarium was to create a mythology, and one I’ve learned from binging Overly Sarcastic Productions is that by their very nature (stories told, retold, and refined over centuries/millennia) no mythology is wholly consistent.
6:00 Ambarmenië (Quenya for "the way of the world") is the conditions in which all beings lived within Arda. These conditions, being created by Ilúvatar himself, were fixed and could not be altered by the creatures themselves much to the rage of Morgoth.
In the case of why Ulmo had to speak directly to Tuor, I think that by appearing in person, showing his power, using a voice as deep as the seas, makes sure the message is received and the recipient would obey.
Also, Galadriel bore Nenya which, while normally beyond the will of Sauron to see and dominate while dispossessed of the One Ring, it makes sense his thought and desire could still be sensed bent towards it. Likewise Gandalf and Elrond seemed to have an ongoing insight into Sauron's disposition throughout the story.
Love these videos their like an awesome Christmas present that you have an idea of what it is until you open it and are even more impressed and thankful
I think Sauron did leave his mind open to Galadriel. But let remember that Sauron as a maiar must have a mind at another level, even for Galadriel, it's possible that he only left some parts of his mind open, just like he did with Denethor, only to show her what interested him. I get the impression that it was a sign of power from Sauron, like someone who doesn't cover his face in a fight because he knows he's faster than the other. Galadriel tells this to Frodo with a feeling of constant threat, not boasting.
Holy heck, I just realized how debased the One Ring truly is according to Tolkien’s world mechanics: the barrier of Unwill is sacrosanct but the One Ring lays bare the thoughts of the wearers of the other Rings to the wearer of the One. It is in effect the only thing on the face of Arda that can defile that wall, which makes it even more detestable of an object.
Your comment got me thinking; now I am far, far from being anyone who could make such great videos as these. We know Sauron placed half of his life force into the One Ring. That it was implied doing this with unalloyed gold, worked synergistically strengthening The One Ring, if I am understanding things right. Morgoth, and Sauron could not break the Barrier of unwill, as they were not equal to Eru. So my question is, if a creation can only be as weak or as powerful as its creator's own ability; does this hint at there being an evil even greater than Morgoth? Is this will of an even greater evil behind Morgoth, Sauron and his One Ring? As you share, the One Ring can break mental barriers when worn. And Morgoth and Sauron can not break the rules set in place by Eru. So if the One Ring can do what is beyond its creator's ability; could this hint at there being an even greater evil, clandestinely working its will in acts of malice? Thoughts? Am I off the trail too far, missing already discussed points which toss my suggestion out entirely?
@@PenDreamt Nice idea! Truly, who knows, not even Tolkien himself knew all about his world and besides Sauron and Morgoth there were Ungoliant and the Nameless Things too. What I personally think on the matter is this : as far as I remember, Tolkien only mentioned that the wielder of the One could only perceive and bend to his will the thoughts of others who likewise wear a Ring of Power. In using a Ring of Power the wielder has to open his mind and heart to use it. As the Rings are made after Sauron's design it is almost the same as opening your mind to a piece of him even more so because a piece of Sauron does live in the One Ring and the other Rings are all connected to the One. As long as you merely wear the Ring, you are cognizant of it and it occupies a small space in your mind and thus a small piece of the One Ring's influence resides in there too. Any Ring of Power is a gateway that bypasses the wearer's Unwill as long as one does not Unwill wearing one.
In the 2003 film The Return of the King, when Pippin looks into the palantir of Isengard, he is able to close off his mind to Sauron and prevent any information about the One Ring from reaching him.
No...Pippin was NOT able to withstand Sauron... it was Saurons fault not to read the situation right and ask the correct questions. Sauron assumed that Saruman had catched the ringbearer and forced him to look into the palantir. So he searched for all the wrong answers in Pippins mind... until Gandalf intervened. And Sauron got nothing useful.
@@peterkoch3777Gandalf didn't intervene, Pippin cried out and collapsed and only then was everyone alarmed to what had happened. Sauron was just too eager to get his hands on this Hobbit and he wanted to interrogate him in person. As Gandalf said, had he interrogated Pippin thoroughly at the spot, he probably would've discovered the whole plan.
You’ve touched on some of my favorite bits of the story! But didn’t know there was more written about it! Or a word for it! 🙏 I just knew there was implied telepathy all throughout the story. Amazing 💪🏽
Perhaps Gandalf could not use Ósanwë because Saurman created a magical barrier to prevent it. Gandalf's prison was not just a physical one. Ulmo needed a messenger because the elves of Gondolin have closed the minds to all outsiders. Not even the Valar could not send them a message.
That new passage seemed to clear things up. It's also why this mindspeak wasn't widely used. You can only use it in certain circumstances and only if both parties are open to it. Sauron was linked to the One Ring which is why he was able to contact Frodo. The Eagles have a will of their own so they wouldn't necessarily be waiting for Gandalf's call. Also, they're Eagles.
Mayhaps a video on the influence of the Tolkien legendarium on modern fantasy. In particular Dungeons and Dragons, and the legal battles that followed.
Fascinating! I love going to this depth of Middle-earth mechanics - thank you! I’ve often forgotten passages of the books when watching the movies, and assumed the communicative thoughts heard in LOTR between Galadriel and Elrond was just a narrative device. Ósanwë is much cooler! 😁
excellent vid, as always! having seen the movies before reading the books, when reading i always assumed the elves communicated 'telepathically' unless otherwise stated. it's always amazing how deep lore can go
Maybe for Men that was the case. The Elves knew that the Faithful would need to communicate with each other over long distances by Ósanwë. They probably could not do it well. It makes sense that this gift from the Elves enhances and boosts the Ósanwë "signal."
The video spoke of communication through thought. I think it would have been mentioned whether one could show an image to another. Besides, the palantíri doesn't just allow communication but for to see surrounding areas.
So, was Gimli right "They say that a great sorceress lives in these woods: an elf-witch of terrible power. All who look upon her fall under her spell, and are never seen again" Do you think Gimli was more "open" or maybe gullible to her powers than the race of men and hobbits?
Isn't it interesting to note Frodo's struggle at Amon Hen against Sauron was opposed by Gandalf the White. Both using Osanwe. Or is it an Angel and Devil upon the shoulders of Frodo, causing him to kneel before the Throne? Gandalf or Conscience won the day.
If anyone was hiding something, or working on a great craft of their own they wished to not be recreated, I doubt they’d want to share it with others. Throwing someone a surprise or planning to set up one’s own kingdom without help from helpful friends would make many shut their minds. Essentially, people were either open sourced or closed source. 😂
I realize now that Mother of Learning (a great read) was heavily influenced by Osanwe. I really like this idea of "openness", the way that a higher order of beings can communicate. As seen between Gandalf and Sauron, it really brings a new meaning to how beings in LoTR experience debate and arguments. A potent argument can almost be wielded like a physical weapon among those who are open.
Crazy that only today (same day this video released) I was reading the part where Frodo is sitting at the Chair on Amon Hen wearing the Ring and Sauron tries to enter his mind
I think the doctrine of the rings of power or the use of Palantír is also related to the concept of ósanwë. Assumption: A ring of power bearer must keep his mind clear in order to use his ring or a Palantír. But this also means opening his mind to the One Ring that rules over these rings, and therefore to Sauron, who holds it. Or a Palantír user allows himself to be mentally captured by Sauron using the Stone of Ithil. A method of reaching closed minds (making them open). Sauron may have used this nature of ósanwë to turn the rings of power into a mind control tool. He used the Palantír to impose his superior will on the other person.
Much as I occasionally nitpick on the lack of magical laser beams and flight in the Legendarium, having well used telepathy sure is timelessly praiseworthy. Cool name too. Wish we got a tale about a passing traveller being weirded out by Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel standing like statues and not even talking though, showing their own perspective on how that part in The Return of the King really looked like from an outsider's POV. 4:22: Neatly funny foreshadowing of Gandalf's survival, that. Only he would call a hobbit "fool". Addendum: Surprised Glaurung's amnesia attack against Nienor isn't here. I suspect it was an aggressive take on Osanwë.
Oh this is cool. I always interpreted the movie scene as being vague to increase mystery? Like Elrond and Galadriel probably communicated via messenger or via pigeon but that's not very *mystical* so instead of reading a letter we just see Elrond mulling over her message with some voiceover. I suppose we do see in Fellowship she can read minds and speak into minds so telepathic communication makes sense too. But like all things in Jackson's trilogy I liked how it was represented on screen too.
I feel it is like when two people say nothing, but are thinking the same thing at the same moment. Both knowing. Galadriel thinks, and looks at Gandalf from behind. Gandalf realize that the conversation in front of him will spur this line of thought within Galadriel. It is not magic, it is foresight.
Well, we pretty much know that Ulmo and the other Valar can communicate with elves and men pretty easily (like the dreams that were sent by Ulmo to Turgon and Finrod, and much later (probably) also to Faramir and Boromir). It just seems that they don't want or aren't allowed to bluntly force themselves into the minds of others, so they use more indirect and subtle ways to convey their messages. Ulmo sending Tuor to Gondolin was probably less for the purpose of the message and more for getting him there in time. After all, the content of the message seems to imply that Ulmo knew about the future importance of Earendil.
Ulmo did use Osanwe some, in a more sneaky way, in the dreams he sent. This probably doesn't fix all of the inconsistencies, but I would imagine with the Valar it has more to do with the Doom of the Noldor and how it entangled everyone in middle earth, they couldn't directly support them. As for Frodo I think Gandalf might have communicated through his Ring and the connection with the One. This even brings up a loophole in the closing of your mind to others, I think with the Great Rings and the One, the act of willingly using them prevented you from barring your mind, this might even be part of how Galadriel knows Sauron, if she was an original beare. They perceived Sauron when he put the one on his finger the first time, and with her previous knowledge and extra insight, she may have seen more than Sauron expected or wanted.
I constantly hear people who point out dumb plot holes like taking the eagles to Mordor, or use telepathy to alert everyone in Middle Earth about Sauron. I believe one of Tolkien's numerous lessons is taking shortcuts is to miss out the intended lesson. We can't really grow or mature and enhance our knowledge of the world unless we are willing to make some kind of sacrifice.
In reference to the Eagles, Tolkien himself said it would be like using Helicopters to reach the top of Mount Everest. It would work but it would take away the sacrifice and journey one should have taken.
@@Enerdhil He likened the proposed shortening of the Fellowship's journey via Eagles to "introducing helicopters" to the first ascent of Mt. Everest "to take the climbers halfway up (in defiance of probability)", and said that this would make "a farce" out of "the arduous journey".
@@Enerdhil Yes, A french dude set the world record in height, reaching 42,500 feet or 12,954 meters with a helicopter. Only ever successful landing was done with a modified helicopter, it was specifically modded to land on Everest.
Perhaps Sauron's mind was open to Galadriel because she bore one of the Three. Remember that he had first been revealed as Sauron to the wearers of the Three in the moment he completed forging the One. While Sauron had no part in making the Three, they were made using the knowledge that Sauron (in his guise as Annatar) had taught to Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion. In removing their Rings, the wearers of the Three were able to close their minds to Sauron (something I assume they could not have done had they kept them on once Sauron bore the One). There is a connection between the One and each of the other Rings of Power that Tolkien left vague and tenuous, despite its importance. (When Frodo asks Galadriel why he could not perceive her mind when he wore the One, she points out that he had never trained his mind towards the dominion of others, so this appears to be a skill that must be learned in some way.)
All the free peoples need to defeat Melkor is put me against him. Once he sees my thoughts, he would surrender to the Valar, saying, "KEEP HIM AWAY FROM ME!"
I'm so curious where Gandalf was when he spoke to Frodo. The timetable doesn't add up for it to be immediately after his resurrection on Celebdil, but lothlorien (where he is supposed to have been during that time) isn't exactly a "high place." I wonder if, besides over distance, Osanwe can communicate over time as well.
as depicted in the movie, i never got the impression that it was literal telepathy.. Since the narrative is always going on about wisdom, lore, insight, etc that the level of insight afforded to the likes of Galadriel are such that it would be as though the insight was so sophisticated as to be having a telepathic link with someone.
@@legitplayin6977 I am just sharing the credible rumours that are out there. Of course, no one (including Payne and McKay 😂) knows what that will look like. In Season one in the 7th or 8th Episode, Galadriel revealed to Theo that Celeborn had been fighting in one of the Wars of Beleriand and never returned. She thinks he has died. Some think he is a thrall of Sauron somewhere. In either case they have to make a story that reunites the two.
@@legitplayin6977 I usually go to Fellowship of Fans to get all the latest rumours, releases, teasers, trailers, and articles based on interviews. If you don't like spoilers, you are better off avoiding such RUclips channels.
Is it possible that Ósanwë can play into the elements of Will power amongst being in Middle Earth wether they be mortal, Elves, or Maiar? I’ve always wondered what defined a being with a stronger Will than another. It can’t just be a matter of race. For example when Denethor battles through the Palantír with Sauron his will is strong but eventually collapses unlike Aragorn who’s will remains strong. When Sauron makes his Ring he pours all his will and much of his essence into it. Could that be a form of Ósanwë as well, including his knowledge of the wills of those who wear their Rings of Power and vice versa as the Elves do through their Rings when Sauron dons his for the first time? If race doesn’t matter in levels of Willpower how could Sauron’s will over power those like the Elves and Men, and even Maiar. I just wonder if Ósanwë contributes, not just to telepathy, but to transference of Will and fighting with it as well? It also makes me wonder of it could assist the theory of Tom Bombadil being Iluvatar, (even though I don’t believe he is), but since Eru Iluvatar can access the will of everyone and none can close their minds to him, that could possibly contribute as to why the Rings has zero effect on him.
I love this aspect of unwill, the closing of one’s mind, to be unbreakable. The greatest threat, controlling another’s mind, faces the greatest defense.
So, rhis will sound dumb, but i almost feel like this paints an image of hiw Sauron really isn't that much more powerful than other beings, such as Gandalf, and Galadriel, which I kind of feel takes away from h i s fearsomeness, and their NEED to best him. I certainly don't mind that anyone can close themselves off, at least if they know how, but it sort of kessens the "invasiveness" of evil, and Sauron's desire to dominate life, via the Rings, or at swordpoint. Does this mean that, with the Rings, Sauron DID find a way to pierce a closed mind? Was a Great Ring, joined with his own One, as a backdoor into their thoughts?
@@Enerdhil Fellowship Of The Ring, Many Meetings: “You have talked long in your sleep, Frodo,’ said Gandalf gently, and it has not been hard for me to read your mind and memory.”
I love all the Tolkoen vids, but for crying out loud, how does the slaughter of pronunciation kill the joy! Is it really so hard to get familiar with the pronunciation rules set by the prof. himself? Its "osanve", v like in Valar.
stop explaining! he made it a mystery for a reason. these things are meant to be understood by the intuition, the tacit underlines. Tolkien was amazing at being subtle. If you want to communicate Tolkien and relate with him, you have to embrace things as he does. "Is this magic?" one of the hobbits asked the elves, "I have no idea what you mean by that." replied the elf. Embrace the silence of mystery.
Sauron's mind was open cause he forgot to renew his NORD VPN subscription
😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣
😆😆😆
The dummy didn't even enable the killswitch.
@@TheCrazyCanuck420 Sauron: Damn, I forgot my password again !
I've always interpreted Galadriel's ability to read Sauron's mind as a consequence of her physical ownership of an Elven Ring of Power. With the connection between the One Ring and all other Great Rings being based on Sauron's force of Will, and how it is stated that if Sauron possessed the One Ring, he would be able to read any other Ring Bearer, I believe the connection goes in both directions.
Since at the creation of the One Ring, when Sauron first placed it on his finger, it is said that the Elves were immediately aware of him and removed their Rings promptly. But, after the loss of the One they returned to using their Rings regularly, so it seems that a Ring Bearer can see into the minds of others specifically connected through their Rings. It also seems that since the Elven Rings were bound up with the power of the One to Rule them All, the mind reading does go both ways between wielders.
However, the problem facing Sauron is that he is not in physical possession of the One, so he only has moderate strength left to try and use to read the minds of the other Ring Bearers. But Galadriel, being in physical possession of her Ring has the advantage in having her strength of mind amplified by her Ring, enough power to still block out the being who's Will is bound to all the Rings. But she is clear that if Sauron gains physical control of the One Ring again her mind will not be able to repel him as long as she wore her Ring. So, physical possession appears to be the source of her strength over Sauron's Will and Mind. He cannot shut out a Ring Bearer because he is connected to all the Rings in spirit, but he also cannot override the Will of a Ring Bearer who is physically wearing their Ring unless he himself is physically wearing the One.
Hope I explained this well enough, telepathy in general fascinates me, no matter what work of fiction it is in lol. Thanks for the video!
The other rings were not made by Sauron but Sauron made the one ring to rule the others. I think the rest is true.
Sauron isn't at full power anymore because of what happened in the Silmarillion, so his mind reading wouldn't be able to reach that far. All that remained was his eye. I think that if he had the ring his mind reading and will would have been amplified.
I always had the same interpretation reading it as well, I thought that perhaps her nobility and age and having been in the light of the two trees further amplified her ability.
I always felt it was primarily because of her possession of the ring nenya made through Sauron's design though not with him present, that was what allowed her to perceive him at such a distance. With the three Elven rings he became aware of them when he put on his ring and they were immediately aware of him and his deception once he tied all his power into the ring and put it on, the connection to all the rings is still there he just has no power over those connections without the one ring.
Galadriel having a gift of insight into others from her earliest years seems to be a considerable difference in how the new Amazon series is portraying her compared to Unfinished Tales and other works. One of the complaints many have voiced, is that in an attempt to have an action-based hero with a name we recognise, they have made the character rather unlike the one we know.
The Nature of Middle Earth is a heavy read but has so much rich, sometimes contradictory lore that can make it difficult to absorb if you’re bent on “cannon”. The best part says that all the Istari came in the first age to aid middle earth and Melian was their chief! I believe she was instrumental in teaching the special insight shared by Galadriel, Olorin, and Elrond.
Melian always fascinated me, NoTR better make a video about her
Oh yeah, it's a heavy read, but really interesting. I think much of HoMe material (and NoMe) have to be taken in their intended form - they're scraps of writings, many of which were abandoned for a reason.
@@NerdoftheRings yes but we’ll never know what the Silmarillion would have actually looked like if Tolkien had lived longer to see it published. I think we’d see Istari in the first age.
Reminds me of something that John Howe said during his work on the films: “There’s a tendency to expect too much of Tolkien, and expect answers that he never intended to give.“ Yet not getting not getting hooked on “cannon” actually fulfills his vision in a backwards kind of way; the purpose behind the Legendarium was to create a mythology, and one I’ve learned from binging Overly Sarcastic Productions is that by their very nature (stories told, retold, and refined over centuries/millennia) no mythology is wholly consistent.
That Melian would have returned to Valinor and had a chance to talk to the Istari before they left for Middle Earth is a great point.😁👍🏻
6:00 Ambarmenië (Quenya for "the way of the world") is the conditions in which all beings lived within Arda. These conditions, being created by Ilúvatar himself, were fixed and could not be altered by the creatures themselves much to the rage of Morgoth.
I don't know if I could handle Galadriel's mind reading. I would be in awe of her power.
In the case of why Ulmo had to speak directly to Tuor, I think that by appearing in person, showing his power, using a voice as deep as the seas, makes sure the message is received and the recipient would obey.
Ulmo probably used Ósanwë to communicate the dreams that Finrod and Turgon had.🤔
@@Enerdhil or he asked for the assistance of Irmo.
@@cormacmacsuibhne2867
I don't think Irmo ever leaves Valinor, even to help heal Frodo in Tol Eressëa. He is responsible for Lórien.
@@Enerdhildoes Irmo need to leave to give people dreams?
If I wasn't the faith I am, Ulmo would be a runner up...
Also, Galadriel bore Nenya which, while normally beyond the will of Sauron to see and dominate while dispossessed of the One Ring, it makes sense his thought and desire could still be sensed bent towards it. Likewise Gandalf and Elrond seemed to have an ongoing insight into Sauron's disposition throughout the story.
YES! That moment you realize nobody has explained why Galadriel and elrond are telepathic in the films Occasionally
And Arwen in Elesars dreams
@@justinakers3196 truth
In the books telepathy is a common talent almost like sign language
Just want to thank you, I'm not the strongest of readers but you help bring tolkiens pages alive
6:55 THIS, this is exactly why i love this channel so much, the role playing and voice acting bring this story so much to life, great work
Thank you for another amazing video. I always enjoy watching them. They're very informative
If deep into the night you've heard a voice saying softly, "You must give to Nerd of the Rings," now you know why.
Very interesting topic. Great video, Matt!
Love these videos their like an awesome Christmas present that you have an idea of what it is until you open it and are even more impressed and thankful
Great analogy! 😁👍🏻
I think Sauron did leave his mind open to Galadriel. But let remember that Sauron as a maiar must have a mind at another level, even for Galadriel, it's possible that he only left some parts of his mind open, just like he did with Denethor, only to show her what interested him. I get the impression that it was a sign of power from Sauron, like someone who doesn't cover his face in a fight because he knows he's faster than the other. Galadriel tells this to Frodo with a feeling of constant threat, not boasting.
he tries to read her thoughts is a sign of fearing her, as he considered her one of the main enemies that left in ME
Holy heck, I just realized how debased the One Ring truly is according to Tolkien’s world mechanics: the barrier of Unwill is sacrosanct but the One Ring lays bare the thoughts of the wearers of the other Rings to the wearer of the One. It is in effect the only thing on the face of Arda that can defile that wall, which makes it even more detestable of an object.
Your comment got me thinking; now I am far, far from being anyone who could make such great videos as these.
We know Sauron placed half of his life force into the One Ring. That it was implied doing this with unalloyed gold, worked synergistically strengthening The One Ring, if I am understanding things right. Morgoth, and Sauron could not break the Barrier of unwill, as they were not equal to Eru.
So my question is, if a creation can only be as weak or as powerful as its creator's own ability; does this hint at there being an evil even greater than Morgoth?
Is this will of an even greater evil behind Morgoth, Sauron and his One Ring? As you share, the One Ring can break mental barriers when worn. And Morgoth and Sauron can not break the rules set in place by Eru.
So if the One Ring can do what is beyond its creator's ability; could this hint at there being an even greater evil, clandestinely working its will in acts of malice?
Thoughts? Am I off the trail too far, missing already discussed points which toss my suggestion out entirely?
@@PenDreamt Nice idea! Truly, who knows, not even Tolkien himself knew all about his world and besides Sauron and Morgoth there were Ungoliant and the Nameless Things too.
What I personally think on the matter is this : as far as I remember, Tolkien only mentioned that the wielder of the One could only perceive and bend to his will the thoughts of others who likewise wear a Ring of Power. In using a Ring of Power the wielder has to open his mind and heart to use it. As the Rings are made after Sauron's design it is almost the same as opening your mind to a piece of him even more so because a piece of Sauron does live in the One Ring and the other Rings are all connected to the One. As long as you merely wear the Ring, you are cognizant of it and it occupies a small space in your mind and thus a small piece of the One Ring's influence resides in there too. Any Ring of Power is a gateway that bypasses the wearer's Unwill as long as one does not Unwill wearing one.
I really like that this is explained; how it’s done, the 3 factors, etc. Other than just arbitrarily saying “elf magic”
In the 2003 film The Return of the King, when Pippin looks into the palantir of Isengard, he is able to close off his mind to Sauron and prevent any information about the One Ring from reaching him.
Right. So much so that he couldn't tell the difference between Frodo at Amon Hen and Pippin with the Palantir at Isengard.
No...Pippin was NOT able to withstand Sauron... it was Saurons fault not to read the situation right and ask the correct questions. Sauron assumed that Saruman had catched the ringbearer and forced him to look into the palantir. So he searched for all the wrong answers in Pippins mind... until Gandalf intervened. And Sauron got nothing useful.
@peterkoch is correct from everything I remember.
@@peterkoch3777Gandalf didn't intervene, Pippin cried out and collapsed and only then was everyone alarmed to what had happened. Sauron was just too eager to get his hands on this Hobbit and he wanted to interrogate him in person. As Gandalf said, had he interrogated Pippin thoroughly at the spot, he probably would've discovered the whole plan.
Always captivated by your videos, thanks Matt
You’ve touched on some of my favorite bits of the story! But didn’t know there was more written about it! Or a word for it! 🙏 I just knew there was implied telepathy all throughout the story.
Amazing 💪🏽
Perhaps Gandalf could not use Ósanwë because Saurman created a magical barrier to prevent it. Gandalf's prison was not just a physical one.
Ulmo needed a messenger because the elves of Gondolin have closed the minds to all outsiders. Not even the Valar could not send them a message.
That new passage seemed to clear things up. It's also why this mindspeak wasn't widely used. You can only use it in certain circumstances and only if both parties are open to it. Sauron was linked to the One Ring which is why he was able to contact Frodo. The Eagles have a will of their own so they wouldn't necessarily be waiting for Gandalf's call. Also, they're Eagles.
I like the idea that for spiritual beings, telepathy is easier and more clear than words.
Mayhaps a video on the influence of the Tolkien legendarium on modern fantasy. In particular Dungeons and Dragons, and the legal battles that followed.
Fascinating! I love going to this depth of Middle-earth mechanics - thank you! I’ve often forgotten passages of the books when watching the movies, and assumed the communicative thoughts heard in LOTR between Galadriel and Elrond was just a narrative device. Ósanwë is much cooler! 😁
excellent vid, as always! having seen the movies before reading the books, when reading i always assumed the elves communicated 'telepathically' unless otherwise stated. it's always amazing how deep lore can go
So, the Palintirs were an artificial form of Osanwe. Or were they an amplifier and extender of that natural mind force? 🤔
I don’t know. Was Osanwe strictly thoughts, or could images be communicated as well?
Maybe for Men that was the case. The Elves knew that the Faithful would need to communicate with each other over long distances by Ósanwë. They probably could not do it well. It makes sense that this gift from the Elves enhances and boosts the Ósanwë "signal."
The video spoke of communication through thought. I think it would have been mentioned whether one could show an image to another. Besides, the palantíri doesn't just allow communication but for to see surrounding areas.
Palantir=Smartphones with face-time
Osanwe=mind-to-mind communication, no batteries required
😁🍻
@@Eowyn3Pride
Get the patent and become a billionaire.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😁👍🏻
Great video!
Nice work dude thanks
Thx for the video (Nerd)
So, was Gimli right "They say that a great sorceress lives in these woods: an elf-witch of terrible power. All who look upon her fall under her spell, and are never seen again" Do you think Gimli was more "open" or maybe gullible to her powers than the race of men and hobbits?
Isn't it interesting to note Frodo's struggle at Amon Hen against Sauron was opposed by Gandalf the White. Both using Osanwe. Or is it an Angel and Devil upon the shoulders of Frodo, causing him to kneel before the Throne? Gandalf or Conscience won the day.
If anyone was hiding something, or working on a great craft of their own they wished to not be recreated, I doubt they’d want to share it with others. Throwing someone a surprise or planning to set up one’s own kingdom without help from helpful friends would make many shut their minds.
Essentially, people were either open sourced or closed source. 😂
I am always waiting for your notifications ❤❤❤
My Drug
I realize now that Mother of Learning (a great read) was heavily influenced by Osanwe. I really like this idea of "openness", the way that a higher order of beings can communicate. As seen between Gandalf and Sauron, it really brings a new meaning to how beings in LoTR experience debate and arguments. A potent argument can almost be wielded like a physical weapon among those who are open.
Crazy that only today (same day this video released) I was reading the part where Frodo is sitting at the Chair on Amon Hen wearing the Ring and Sauron tries to enter his mind
I think the doctrine of the rings of power or the use of Palantír is also related to the concept of ósanwë. Assumption: A ring of power bearer must keep his mind clear in order to use his ring or a Palantír. But this also means opening his mind to the One Ring that rules over these rings, and therefore to Sauron, who holds it. Or a Palantír user allows himself to be mentally captured by Sauron using the Stone of Ithil. A method of reaching closed minds (making them open). Sauron may have used this nature of ósanwë to turn the rings of power into a mind control tool. He used the Palantír to impose his superior will on the other person.
Frodo having the ring obviously increased his perceptive capacity.
Much as I occasionally nitpick on the lack of magical laser beams and flight in the Legendarium, having well used telepathy sure is timelessly praiseworthy. Cool name too.
Wish we got a tale about a passing traveller being weirded out by Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel standing like statues and not even talking though, showing their own perspective on how that part in The Return of the King really looked like from an outsider's POV.
4:22: Neatly funny foreshadowing of Gandalf's survival, that. Only he would call a hobbit "fool".
Addendum: Surprised Glaurung's amnesia attack against Nienor isn't here. I suspect it was an aggressive take on Osanwë.
Oh this is cool. I always interpreted the movie scene as being vague to increase mystery? Like Elrond and Galadriel probably communicated via messenger or via pigeon but that's not very *mystical* so instead of reading a letter we just see Elrond mulling over her message with some voiceover. I suppose we do see in Fellowship she can read minds and speak into minds so telepathic communication makes sense too. But like all things in Jackson's trilogy I liked how it was represented on screen too.
I would like to see more about the bleu wizards. It is a very interesting topic to talk about.
I knew of this from the books but I didn’t know they had a term for it
Also great example is how Gandalf speaks to Saruman when he clears Theoden from his spell.
I feel it is like when two people say nothing, but are thinking the same thing at the same moment. Both knowing. Galadriel thinks, and looks at Gandalf from behind. Gandalf realize that the conversation in front of him will spur this line of thought within Galadriel. It is not magic, it is foresight.
I think animals have Osanwe powers. They seem to communicate with each other and understand us even when we don't speak or make any noise.
Well, we pretty much know that Ulmo and the other Valar can communicate with elves and men pretty easily (like the dreams that were sent by Ulmo to Turgon and Finrod, and much later (probably) also to Faramir and Boromir). It just seems that they don't want or aren't allowed to bluntly force themselves into the minds of others, so they use more indirect and subtle ways to convey their messages. Ulmo sending Tuor to Gondolin was probably less for the purpose of the message and more for getting him there in time. After all, the content of the message seems to imply that Ulmo knew about the future importance of Earendil.
One of Olorins Maia powers was to inspire dreams or give thoughts to elves.
Ulmo did use Osanwe some, in a more sneaky way, in the dreams he sent. This probably doesn't fix all of the inconsistencies, but I would imagine with the Valar it has more to do with the Doom of the Noldor and how it entangled everyone in middle earth, they couldn't directly support them. As for Frodo I think Gandalf might have communicated through his Ring and the connection with the One. This even brings up a loophole in the closing of your mind to others, I think with the Great Rings and the One, the act of willingly using them prevented you from barring your mind, this might even be part of how Galadriel knows Sauron, if she was an original beare. They perceived Sauron when he put the one on his finger the first time, and with her previous knowledge and extra insight, she may have seen more than Sauron expected or wanted.
I constantly hear people who point out dumb plot holes like taking the eagles to Mordor, or use telepathy to alert everyone in Middle Earth about Sauron. I believe one of Tolkien's numerous lessons is taking shortcuts is to miss out the intended lesson. We can't really grow or mature and enhance our knowledge of the world unless we are willing to make some kind of sacrifice.
In reference to the Eagles, Tolkien himself said it would be like using Helicopters to reach the top of Mount Everest. It would work but it would take away the sacrifice and journey one should have taken.
@cormacmacsuibhne2867
Can a helicopter even make it to the top of Mt. Everest? 🧐
@@Enerdhil He likened the proposed shortening of the Fellowship's journey via Eagles to "introducing helicopters" to the first ascent of Mt. Everest "to take the climbers halfway up (in defiance of probability)", and said that this would make "a farce" out of "the arduous journey".
@@cormacmacsuibhne2867
Half way up still sounds dangerous because of the winds.
@@Enerdhil Yes, A french dude set the world record in height, reaching 42,500 feet or 12,954 meters with a helicopter.
Only ever successful landing was done with a modified helicopter, it was specifically modded to land on Everest.
Perhaps Sauron's mind was open to Galadriel because she bore one of the Three. Remember that he had first been revealed as Sauron to the wearers of the Three in the moment he completed forging the One.
While Sauron had no part in making the Three, they were made using the knowledge that Sauron (in his guise as Annatar) had taught to Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion. In removing their Rings, the wearers of the Three were able to close their minds to Sauron (something I assume they could not have done had they kept them on once Sauron bore the One). There is a connection between the One and each of the other Rings of Power that Tolkien left vague and tenuous, despite its importance. (When Frodo asks Galadriel why he could not perceive her mind when he wore the One, she points out that he had never trained his mind towards the dominion of others, so this appears to be a skill that must be learned in some way.)
Huh, i always thought the thought sharing was unique to ring bearers and wizards, interesting!
All the free peoples need to defeat Melkor is put me against him. Once he sees my thoughts, he would surrender to the Valar, saying, "KEEP HIM AWAY FROM ME!"
Tell morgoth about e625, permadeath to his sanity ☠️
Is this what galadriel was doing to the members of the fellowship, then?
Nah they had Bluetooth buds in their ears.
This mind-reading/ conversation is a bit iffy to me, like Harry Potter’s legilimency
I'm so curious where Gandalf was when he spoke to Frodo. The timetable doesn't add up for it to be immediately after his resurrection on Celebdil, but lothlorien (where he is supposed to have been during that time) isn't exactly a "high place." I wonder if, besides over distance, Osanwe can communicate over time as well.
the high talan on Cerin Amroth?
as depicted in the movie, i never got the impression that it was literal telepathy.. Since the narrative is always going on about wisdom, lore, insight, etc that the level of insight afforded to the likes of Galadriel are such that it would be as though the insight was so sophisticated as to be having a telepathic link with someone.
I feel like sauron may have kept his mind open to bait others like he did to denathor
Videocall mirror🤗💕
4:29 I am not sure about this one. I always interpreted that one as a connection via the Ring, rather than mind connections.
AND DEBBIE!
Ok im going to say what we’re all thinking:
We need a Teleporno episode
Just in time for The Rings of Power to have him show up in the series. 😞
@@Enerdhil No way, is he really going to be in there? If yes that’s going to be an automatic 10/10
@@legitplayin6977
I am just sharing the credible rumours that are out there. Of course, no one (including Payne and McKay 😂) knows what that will look like.
In Season one in the 7th or 8th Episode, Galadriel revealed to Theo that Celeborn had been fighting in one of the Wars of Beleriand and never returned. She thinks he has died. Some think he is a thrall of Sauron somewhere. In either case they have to make a story that reunites the two.
@@legitplayin6977
I usually go to Fellowship of Fans to get all the latest rumours, releases, teasers, trailers, and articles based on interviews. If you don't like spoilers, you are better off avoiding such RUclips channels.
...I see the joke, and I'm both impressed and livid by it.
Sharing :) 🌿✨️
Can we get a video on the Variags of Khand
I would think reaching out with your mind would maybe leave it open or send out your intent and thought?
Is it possible that Ósanwë can play into the elements of Will power amongst being in Middle Earth wether they be mortal, Elves, or Maiar? I’ve always wondered what defined a being with a stronger Will than another. It can’t just be a matter of race. For example when Denethor battles through the Palantír with Sauron his will is strong but eventually collapses unlike Aragorn who’s will remains strong. When Sauron makes his Ring he pours all his will and much of his essence into it. Could that be a form of Ósanwë as well, including his knowledge of the wills of those who wear their Rings of Power and vice versa as the Elves do through their Rings when Sauron dons his for the first time? If race doesn’t matter in levels of Willpower how could Sauron’s will over power those like the Elves and Men, and even Maiar. I just wonder if Ósanwë contributes, not just to telepathy, but to transference of Will and fighting with it as well?
It also makes me wonder of it could assist the theory of Tom Bombadil being Iluvatar, (even though I don’t believe he is), but since Eru Iluvatar can access the will of everyone and none can close their minds to him, that could possibly contribute as to why the Rings has zero effect on him.
What’s the background music
a video for Lindon
I think they use the http.
I love this aspect of unwill, the closing of one’s mind, to be unbreakable. The greatest threat, controlling another’s mind, faces the greatest defense.
This would have been useful in rings of power season two between gil galad and celebrimbor 😂
So, rhis will sound dumb, but i almost feel like this paints an image of hiw Sauron really isn't that much more powerful than other beings, such as Gandalf, and Galadriel, which I kind of feel takes away from h i s fearsomeness, and their NEED to best him. I certainly don't mind that anyone can close themselves off, at least if they know how, but it sort of kessens the "invasiveness" of evil, and Sauron's desire to dominate life, via the Rings, or at swordpoint.
Does this mean that, with the Rings, Sauron DID find a way to pierce a closed mind? Was a Great Ring, joined with his own One, as a backdoor into their thoughts?
IS CLOSING YOUR
MIND THE EQUIVALENT
OF OCCLUMANCY LIKE
FROM HARRY POTTER
+LEGGLIMANCY
Ok. So be it. DNA has been exchanged.
What if Elrond took the ring?
Not true, Diddy also pierces the unwill
Did Gandalf read or see Frodos thoughts whilst he recovered in Imladris?
The quote Matt read sounded like Gandalf was in a high place, so maybe he was still on top of Caradhras.
@@Enerdhil Fellowship Of The Ring, Many Meetings: “You have talked long in your sleep, Frodo,’ said Gandalf gently, and it has not been hard for me to read your mind and memory.”
@@Eagle-eye-pie
Oops. Wrong passage.😅
@@Eagle-eye-pie
Based on the excerpt you posted, it seems that Gandalf did read Frodo's name.
Is all "mind reading" using Ósanwë?
Fun fact: Men are actually capable of Ósanwë as well.
only less good at it...
When you're a few millenia old, you pick up a thing or two on the way.
Sounds like a DMT trip
👍🏻👍🏻
Juice
😍😍😍✅✅✅
Is there something she can't do?🙄
Someone reading your mind? Just say no
::)
🧠
I love all the Tolkoen vids, but for crying out loud, how does the slaughter of pronunciation kill the joy! Is it really so hard to get familiar with the pronunciation rules set by the prof. himself? Its "osanve", v like in Valar.
I dont wear jewellery not at all. So this world has no interest to me except for human DNA access, please.
stop explaining! he made it a mystery for a reason. these things are meant to be understood by the intuition, the tacit underlines. Tolkien was amazing at being subtle. If you want to communicate Tolkien and relate with him, you have to embrace things as he does. "Is this magic?" one of the hobbits asked the elves, "I have no idea what you mean by that." replied the elf. Embrace the silence of mystery.
This is all info written by Tolkien though. 🤷♂️ haha
? Tolkien expained it himself in his notes, he even gave a name to it... If you are not interested, why do you listen thern to background knowledge?