Batgirl Cancelled - A Sign Of Things To Come?
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2022
- The recent announcement by Warner Discovery that Batgirl, a movie costing almost $100 Million was being cancelled due to disastrous test screenings caught everyone by surprise. Was this really a case of a studio wisely sparing us from a terrible film, or was this part of a bigger change at the studio and Hollywood at large? Are we seeing the beginning of the end of The Message in our films?
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I'd like to point out CEO of company Kraken was giving out 4 months paid for people who have easily hurt feeling to leave his company. About a month ago.
Can someone explain how supergirl was race swapped?
Dude! Where is the boys season 3 Review!?
E
they said the movie was like a bad tvshow episode
I remember seeing the announcement for the cancellation of Batgirl and my first thought was “There was a Batgirl movie coming up?”
Same here buddy, same here…
That was 3 minutes ago for me
Same!
Right, never heard a single word about this movie till it was cancelled.
@@blyat8832 what show exactly? If it's Batwoman then you know it's two different characters right?
We've been saying it for the past decade. In most cases, the people who love "the message" are not the same people who dedicatedly consume the product. Sure, the twitter mob will scream at companies to change things for them, but that same mob won't follow through on their demands and actually pay up to enjoy the thing they were screaming about. A fan of the original Star Wars trilogy would not only pay to see the movies, they'd pay for shirts, models, posters, meet and greets, and every version of a boxed set you could offer them. Disney and company decided to trade those dedicated fans for people who can't even remember the plot half the time. Whether "the message" is important or not, this was always a bad business strategy. Now they're starting to run out of the money they've been coasting on for so long.
Aye it’s cool to see you here
"...consume the product."
I think a huge part of this problem is looking at filmmaking as just creating products rather than creating art. And this idea of "consuming content" sounds as coldly analytical as spraying hair care products in a bunch of rabbits' eyes at a lab for L'Oreal on a daily basis. Flesh eating bacteria consume. When I'm watching a TV show or reading a book or graphic novel, I'm engaged in the story. Hopefully in a good way.
I sometimes thought about why they doing this fault and one of the reasons can be they haven’t follow the time in some regards.. this may sound silly but in the past there was this idea that what you like as young person change and you looking after something else and a new generation took over.. which is one of the reason why they thought they could do this because the fan at some point grow up and a new kind of fan took over and they wants new chances and problem is that in the past you haven’t so many things to choose from but now you do and those fans they thought would grow out of it stand by it because they didn’t see a reason why stop like what they like and the new generation didn’t care because theirs interests isn’t culture or fandom but self discussion,race, gender equality and politics is the pop culture for them.. so in other words it’s funny enough the older generation and people of this generation who doesn’t like those things being pop culture they gonna focus on or something like that
100% bro. If they wanted to create a product for them, then make a new character that suits the ‘message’ that they’re trying to bring instead of modifying characters identities, backstories and plots that makes them unique in the first place. But then again, we know that type of movies is going to be a flop because it’s not a good business decision to splash money for only a handful of people that each uses 20 fake Twitter accounts to cancel almost everyone that they see fit🤷♂️
This is why I'm a firm believer in gate keeping.
Comic book fans (who used to be regarded as dweebs) opened the door in hopes for their hobby to be validated, only for the mainstream culture to seep into it, reject the dedicated fans in hopes to attract and please the "woke" crowd.
It happened with comics, video games, scifi, fantasy.
And I see it happening with anime, as anime began to grow mainstream, the higher ups couldn't help but dig their muddy fingers into the medium and attempt to bastardize it (look at Netflix's live action attempts).
The difference is that anime fans (me included) don't stand for that shit and push back.
Tl;Dr: Gatekeep your fucking hobbies or they will ruin it for you
Can't help but wonder how much influence the spectacular success of Top Gun Maverick has had. It showed that there is an audience out there for 'the right stuff'.
I wanna see that even though Tom really gets on my nerves...
@@peterbaugh51 I really thought the movie was being overhyped, especially by more conservative-leaning people, but I recently got around to seeing it and it's absolutely wonderful. I was actually shocked at how much it reminded me of a time when movies were actually good. I actually had forgotten how good movies used to be.
Yes, I love me some homosexuality romantic movies.
Among streaming services, the same is true for Turning Red. All the red panda power in the world was more than enough to destroy two preconceived notions some people had from bad modern movies. Turning Red proves that there is an audience for movies led by female characters when they are very well-rounded, funny, entertaining and compelling to watch, and it is possible to make a good film about your teenage experience without sexualizing the main kid characters of your film, so we might not have to worry about Cuties again until its actors are old enough to look back on that film in 2029, when it turns 10 years old and they are more knowledgable to think over what they did in it, and what it did to them.
Not sure what movie called Turning Red you saw, but the one j saw absolutely sucked.
So first Batwoman was cancelled, and now Batgirl.
What a time to be alive.
Your pfp giving me omori psd😭
That’s because they couldn’t agree on “what is a woman” let alone a “bat woman” 😂😂😂😂
next step; iron woman 😁
@@benja_mint you know it is coming too. Just not a mistake that Tony and Pepper only had a daughter.
@@benja_mint no. Marvel won’t do that. That’s why I decided to move to DC
Absolutely gutted for Brendan Fraser, he deserved a grand return to big screen blockbusters. Hopefully this decision though is a sign that DC is taking its properties more seriously and is willing to put in the effort for a long-term plan. Not optimistic at all though.
He might be up for the award season with an upcoming A24 movie The Whale coming soon with him starring in it (At least he's got Doom Patrol in terms of DC)
Agree. I was rooting for him. What a bummer.
He's going to be in the new Scorsese film "Killers of the Flower Moon"
This would have worked against him. Being in a massive failure doesn't help one's career.
I'm sad for him as well, but Brendan Fraser's time will come, there's the upcoming The Whale and Killers of the Flower Moon, he will get his time to shine in them and i hope he does well.
Oh no. What an absolute shame. How can the world go on without such an amazing movie?
Ngl I'm sad it was apparently unwatchable shit, but glad it was cancelled. I wouldn't want a bomb to tarnish the good name of Brendan Fraser
Doon't know.
Imagine Hollywood making movies people actually like..
Lady Gaga is going to play Harley Quinn in Joker 2 so that's cool. I liked her in A Star Is Born so i'm curious how she's going to bring the character to life
@our hero get out
I spent 4 years of my life designing a level for a AAA MMO franchise, only to be canned in a round of layoffs. 2 years later the studio closed and the game servers were shut down. My level never saw the light of day. So I'm definitely sympathetic to the people involved in this project.
I'd assume you're still under a NDA, but if you're not, then what game? That fucking sucks though, sorry that happened. I've lost a mission I was making for 3 days and was pissed. Can't imagine 4 years.
@@callfororion8846 Wildstar by Carbine Studios
This is no small thing. I have not had this kind of direct loss but i have been in my industry for almost 30yrs. What do i have to show for it? Absolutely nothing. I cannot go around and tell my kids that 'hey here is a bridge i helped to build'. Stuff like that has a cumulative effect i have noted. It is not just money but there is more and i have none of that other thing to show for. Also your loss is like a long time loss accumulated in just a few years. Nothing to show for it. Absolutely nothing. And in some years people might even start to doubt if you ever did were part of the thing you claim.
And then CEOs wonder why some jobs cant find doers.
@@SeraphsWitnessaw man! Wildstar was such a cool unique mmo ! Between the setting, artwork, music and a lot of the gameplay... thank u for your se r vice
@@martyuscalgar appreciate the kind words. We had fun making it.
They may have miscalculated the inertia though. When quality dropped, I started rewatching old DVDs at home, expanded my book collection. At first I gave some newer movies a watch on the high seas (YoHo!) rather than in theatre like I used to. Then I stopped bothering altogether. Having given up on television and movie theatres, I won't return even when quality starts improving again.
They haven't merely lost revenue on a few movies -- they've lost four customers: me, the wife and the kids. Four customers that dropped out of the industry completely. And I have a hunch we're not the only ones.
I thought that was the case for me until I went to TopGun Maverick.
A better cinema is possible.
Same for my household, and we have a neighborhood movie group that all agrees not to watch any modern films (not for any political reason, just all i n agreement that most moderns movies suck so hard), the only exception being movies that are raved about. otherwise we just watch movies pre- 2000s
Haven't seen a movie in years. Switched to Anime because between some of the generic trash in that genre there are actual diamonds of storytelling which excel anything else at the moment.
Same here. I did however, go to see Maverick. What a great movie that was.
Just expand your horizon beyond where your local entertainment industry is and you'll see that the world is so much bigger.
Only person I feel bad for is Brendan Fraser. Saw him at Galaxycon in Raleigh and he spent a fair amount of time at his panel talking about playing Firefly and how excited he was about it. Dude got a raw deal.
He's a genuinely nice person. And humble
Dam that sucks
Yeah I would have been glad to see him again, the last thing I saw with him was the Mummy and that was a WHILE ago. He deserves better.
But . . . maybe he can do something else? Damn. I like him a lot as an actor, I hope he gets more work even if he's older.
Brendan Fraser's fantastic in the TV series Trust. It's good to see him getting back into his acting chops
I also think the success of Top Gun really opened their eyes. There wasn’t even a hint of “THE MESSAGE“ in that film and it was phenomenal. Let’s hope this continues.
it was good bc of the real life footage but the story was a bit predictable imo
Can’t really think of any film that has topped a billion dollars with ‘THE MESSAGE’ in it. It’s so redundant. There’s less than 1% of the population that identify as such. It’s like making all movies for furries because it became a trend all of a sudden.
The success of No Way Home and Top Gun:Maverick may be turning the tide on woke movies and the message.Warner Brothers wants to duplicate the success of the aforementioned movies and say Wokeness be gone because it's ruining their profit margins.
@@michiel1162 pick any of 80s action flick and you will see that new top gun is no differ from that. Somebody just realized that it doesnt matter. You dont need stron motives, strong story or political themes. You just need okish story with no additional bullshit and wrap it around enjoyable production and high fidelity audio and visuals and people will flow into cinemas by tons. New top gun is 80s movie made in 21 century and its totally ok
@@michiel1162 Who the fuck cares if it was predictable, it was a good story with no bullshit
In the early 80s, "the cotton club" and "heaven's gate" both cost so much, and were so bad, that the each sunk the studio that made them.
Everyone in Hollywood learned their lesson, and it took a whole new generation before they could destroy themselves again.
I'm a hollywood base writer, I haven't been able to work in the last year. I've got 20 years experience but I'm white and straight. I've been told to my face that I'm not getting hired because of my skin color and sexual orientation. I really hope your right, because I'm not sure what else to do to have an income....
Wow! How inclusive !
I hope you get work soon though
Put a pretty pink bow on your head and say that you're, "non-binary". Do you really think that they have a litmis test for that?
@@Magus12000BC I thought about it. And many of my friends are doing that. But it 2 me it feels unethical. Like I'm breaking my own code of ethics. I don't want to play the game and to acquiesce to a system of bigotry and racism. If people stood up to the nazis back in 30's Germany. They would never have been able to go as far.
@@milmal7336 - Well I'm not in your situation and I'm not part of the industry. But these aren't Nazis. These are dentheaded narcissists that can't survive outside of the nepotistic circle that they created for themselves. In the grand scheme of things, they are harmless.
As such, playing the game until you get your foot in the door to something else I don't think should really be taken off the table. We all have to swallow our pride at points in our lives. And I'm sure you have many times up to this point.
But these people aren't worth starving for. I'd even go so far as to bet that they'd want you to starve. Don't give them that. Do what benefits you and your family. And if you have to be an actor for a bit, well...it's nothing new in the industry.
But I believe I am overstepping saying all that. I'm sure you got things figured out.
@@Magus12000BC It is becoming very similar. Nazis also started with degrading Jews, and making it more and more hard for them to gain positions, or trying to get them kicked out of academia, boycotting businesses, etc. The hate, also unfortunately here, against "middle aged" (which seems to be very vague and anything older than the person saying it) men is also very common. A lot of division everywhere and the wars we are seeing currently are the start of this. I hope it will never get that far, but we should not trivialize it either. It does have many similarities, quotas, cancelling, publicly denigrating, mocking and excluding people of a certain group more and more from holding positions or having support when in trouble.
Does anyone else realize that when Hollywood gender/race swap a character, they also made the said character as unlikable as possible? Like the original character is a kind, humble and loving gentle soul, they changed them into a mean, arrogant and spoiled jerk?
They're not aware of it because that's what they're like and they like themselves.
i mean they are really just treating them like edgy anti heroes which is cool for dudes, but most women are pretty cringe when trying to act like that, and lets be fair here and acknowledge that this cape shit isnt written to be art.
Its so they come off as "strong and independant" Duhh
Does this mean you believe that Batgirl is a gender-swapped version of Batman?
@@lesgalloiseries
Nope, I know Barbara is her own character, she isn't a clone of Bruce.
I'm a woman. The only time on my life I ever felt weak, pathetic, and "less than" was when this girl power crap started. I had no idea that I needed special considerations and promotion because of my sex. I thought the world was my oyster.
Exactly. It actually made me feel more embarassed for the female sex cause all this was obviously getting on peoples nerves and I related to none of these characters or stories, but they kept claiming that women love this like we have no taste. I wanna see stories that are first and foremost GOOD and I couldnt care less how its done and what the sexes and races of the chatacters are. I never questioned my power or worth in this world as a woman...not as a girl, not as an adult. In the 90s and early 2000s, everything was pretty diverse or had female heroines, but it was well done and not shoved into our faces with the "LOOK a female is doing this" marketing. There were all kinds of shows with mixed or totally black casts and then there was Kill Bill, game characters like Lara Croft, Xena, Ripley from Alien etc...men and women loved these things. And why do they assume, that women only feel attracted to something that stars another women? All my favorite movies and shows of all time are male centric...but they are well done and thats what matters.
@@calistafalcontail 100 percent agree. I care more about plot, cinematography, music, etc than the specific physical components of the actors. I'm in my 40's so I remember a time when women weren't oppressed yet, haha! It's so absurd.
Hell yeah, the world IS your oyster if you choose to make it so 👌🏽
I'm a guy and one of my favourite female characters is Lara Croft in the Tomb Raider video games of 2013 onwards. Because throughout the game she becomes a hero and earns that title. It's so badass to see that character arc and I wish they could have that in movies too where there is an actual journey where the female character develops and grows and earns respect.
Aren't you glad that Hollywood and main stream media opened your eyes, told you how weak and oppressed you are, and how much you need their help? Oh, where would we all be without their wise guidance??
Many Writers have a bizarre relationship with female action heroes. I notice that they almost never receive a scratch in battle for example. It’s like the writers still treat them as damsels in that regard.
Rey for example manages to go an entire trilogy with barely a scratch. Where as luke and anakin both lost limbs. Youd think someone with such immense aptitude and talent as Rey would at some point make a critical error from underestimating an enemy that costs her an arm or leg, but since Rey is more or less perfect, we dont get that.
When you like at “the bride” from kill bill, she gets nearly killed frequently. And thats important in action movies. It creates tension. “How is she gonna get out of this one?”
And this rule applies to male protags. Even Arny’s T800 in terminator 2 barely has any skin left by the end of the film. Sarah conner gets a blade through the collar bone, all the actual heroes get pretty beat up, and ones a sentient kill bot ffs
The alligator/ woman in the swamp scenario is absolute class!! You're talented with just little anecdotes, I'm looking at your writing now. Bravo
I’ve gone from seeing 1-2 movies a week to 1-2 a year. ‘The Message’ is the reason. I’ve lost the ability to suspend my disbelief when the creators are busily trying to lecture me to be more woke. I’m sure I’m not alone in that.
Me too. I cant even be bothered going out to Marvel movies now. I pirated Dr Strange 2 the day after release and glad i didnt pay to see that crap.
100% - I used to be a 2-3 movie (at theatre) a week kind of guy. No more. Home cinema, and I pick and choose really carefully what I am going to waste my time on. Taking the kids to see the eternals was the last torture fest for me, I actually slept through a large chunk of it.
@@nixonagnewreviews7206 I couldn't even force myself to watch it, pirated or not. Same with Bore, Shit and Fart.
@@mariadocarmosobreira8323 when i turned on captan marvel after first 5 minutes it already felt like shit beacuse of "The message" and cringed so hard what happend after that didnt interest me and i know that it didnt get any better i saw captain marvle unchung poor granny in the face for nothing what the fuck.
You are definitely not alone in that. I've been rewatching older movies from before wokeism took over simply because they were better and can't stomach the crap they have today.
Finally the industry is starting to realize you can’t have diverse characters if the characters themselves aren’t well developed, and are too obvious that they are pushing a corporate shell of a character.
Also, people are feeling super hero fatigue, with both Disney and WB cranking out too many movies with too many generic and unoriginal scripts and characters.
I keep hearing that super hero fatigue claim but I don't think that's right at all. People aren't fatigued with super heros, we're fatigued at modern super hero movies. I went back and watched the first Thor after watching Love and Thunder and it's genuinely awe inspiring. The world building is unparalleled anywhere else in the MCU, it's cinematography matches with it's tone, the comedy makes sense in universe, the fucking audio engineering is enough to make a grown man climax, and it was just generally super fucking enjoyable. The issue isn't that the main characters are super heros, the issue is that the movies are fatiguing. People are just as burnt out on star wars, but we don't call it "star wars fatigue" we call it a shit trilogy.
Nature is healing itself
its not fatigue, we are just sick of the shit they are trying to jam down out throats. It doesn't have to be grand cinema, just good. Good script, decent actors, CGI that doesn't look terrible and a satisfying ending.
@@robonator2945 Yeah we are tired of shit movies repeating the same story beats and messages as the last movie. It gets old after a while, but it doesn't mean we are completely tired of super hero movies as a genre.
Movies like the Batman, Joker, and No Way Home did very well. Clearly people still love GOOD movies related to comic book characters. They just want to see something unique with its own soul again.
Some people I'm in a discord server with honestly think racism plays a factor into cancellation of this project, some tried joking with memes of what WB does for a project with a black lead and one person states this film would have the first DC film transgender character.
My answer: who cares if the project tested poorly?
I sincerely hope you're right. I have no problem with increasing diversity in entertainment, but that's always gonna be a very distant second to what should be the primary goal: GOOD STORY TELLING! My issue with the last 5 years or so is that the story telling has been completely sacrificed in order to push identity politics. But the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. House of Dragons introduced a slew of black characters (the Valarians and the Grand Maester) who fit perfectly in the world and were great! It also portrayed not one, but four different genuinely strong female characters by portraying them as actual females who endure and overcome actual problems that women actually face in life! So it can be done, increasing diversity and representation while still telling a compelling story, it's just difficult and Hollywood doesn't seem at all interested in doing it. And ultimately if I have to choose between good story telling and increasing diversity I'm obviously gonna go with good story telling.
absolutely, devastatingly good critique - from the observations and insight, to the articulation of argument, to the rapid-fire editing....Critical Drinker, you're a force of nature in your chosen field and in adjacent political discourse-at-large. You could easily be a fierce political academic or polemicist - but would not have the same mainstream appeal as you can achieve by leveraging your analysis against popular culture. You are right where G*d meant for you to be and i wish you every success
What bugs me is filmmakers like James Cameron have written strong, likeable female characters and still have a fantastic story. You don't have to gender/race swap existing characters. Just write new interesting female and diverse characters. Indiana Jones isn't invincible. We identify with characters that have redeeming qualities, and great story arcs, and show they are human, and have weaknesses like everyone else, and can rise above them. I think it's less "the message". And more like lets not bother to write anything interesting, you'll like it because of the message.
Everything Everywhere all at once, 3 female and one male are lead characters, 3 of them are Asians. Still the most hyped and loved movie from this year. You're absolutely correct, when there's a good movie no one cares if it's a woman or a man. Audience just wants to feel connected.
Exactly. Movies or shows that push "diversity" without making their characters meaningful or interesting are actually insulting the concept of diversity. It's taking a person of color and basically saying: "oh yeah, you are only here because of your skintone" rather than actually giving them a cool role to play and giving the audience something fun to watch. It's all very insincere.
The same happened to Quentin Tarantino. He's always making badaas female characters without pushing the message. Even though most of his movies are like old fashioned and still paying homage to the 70's or 80's, he doesn't care about that. He's even making good alternative story when The Jew-Americans killed Hitler in movie theatre and Sharon Tate survived the Mason Family.
@@margarethmichelina5146 even though Jackie Brown wasn’t a QT character, she’s one of my favourite female characters
You still don't get it I'm afraid. The point of THE MESSAGE isn't to promote strong women/diverse/LGBTQ characters, but to use that as an excuse to take down male characters. See, according to the twitter mob's ideology, men are the source of oppression that needs to be brought down a peg.
They don't care about the classic strong female characters, because those don't actively try to "take down the patriarchy".
I'm completely on board with Mera being replaced by Bruce Campbell in a red wig in every scene. With visible greenscreen artefacts, if need be.
Groovy
*ruclips.net/video/vC0roEkkKkQ/видео.html*
Finally it's here. *YES*
I love Bruce as much as the next super fan, but I'd rather him actually play a male character. Not a red wig. Not Mera. but if he is shoehorned in as a sidekick, the ticket is a must buy.
Yes!
Shop smart. Shop 'S' Mart. You got that?
This has been my take on movies for a couple decades now. I simple say, "I'm not the target demographic, so I won't be going to see the movie."
The basically summerizes Hollywood right now. They have targeted everything to the 0.01% of the American population. In doing so, the 99.99% are starting to understand my point. Not being in the target demographic, they aren't going to see the movies anymore. There is enough money in Hollywood to weather the current shit storm for at least another 5-10 years. However, as this video points out, the people actually losing the money are already upset. That means smaller studios have to make changes immediately. The larger studios won't change until they see the smaller studios making much higher returns on their movies when they go back to traditional movie scripts. So, while WB may have to make immediate changes, I suspect Disney is still 5-10 years away from understanding what they are currently doing is not what 99.99% of the population want to see.
Blacks, feminists and leftist Jews (but I repeat myself) are way more than 0.01% of the population.
@@Grasslander 100% valid point.
By 0.01% of the population, I am referring to transgender activists who were activists before transgender became popular.
Still, if you add in blacks (12.6%), feminsts and leftist Jews (these would be moderate leftist or brainwashed because CTR is anitsemitic by definition) this is still less than 20% of the population. The argument stands.
Too bad 0.01% of the population can screw up an entire country, let alone one movie.
Cancelling the little mermaid too, will not harm anyone.
And why can't we just have female characters that are humane? One of my favorite moments about Sarah Connor in Terminator 2 is when she goes and almost kills Dyson, and when John stops her and she sees Dyson's family quite literally body-shielding him she breaks into tears and disgusts with "OMG I ALMOST KILLED AN INNOCENT MEN". It's just such a powerful moment because it humanized her so much. Entire movie she's been deadset on stopping the future (Skynet) that she completely lost the sight that Dyson is just some random normal dude who isn't aware of what consequences of his actions would eventually be.
We don't get female characters like this, they are just copy-paste generic characters that can beat up dudes and ridicule men.
Don't even get me started on how Hollywood execs try to sell same old shit but claim it's "new" because they gender or race swap some characters. Again watch Terminator Dark Fate, and you'll see it has exact same scenes and plot points like previous two Terminator movies, but this time we're suppose to think it's something "new" because it just gender swapped some characters.
The best way I've heard it described is like this: Woke writers turn women into the worst version of men, and men into the worst version of women.
So I say no thanks, I'd rather stick to stories with women like Aiko from Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun, who lives in a feudal society and takes advantage of the fact that she's a woman, and TV shows like The Expanse and My Hero Academia, where both the male and the female characters are treated with equal respect by the writer, while getting to be manly and feminine respectively without either being depicted as bad.
EXACTLY! 💯
Terminator 2 was so good on so many levels. The T-800 became human, and Sara almost became a Terminator. James Cameron may be a dick, but the man knows how to write.
@@PolarizedMechs It's no accident that two of the best sequels ever were made by him (T2 and Aliens).
Funny that both of them have iconic strong female protagonists as well isn't it?
This is why I loved Jessica's character in Dune. She's not only a very strong female character, but she's specifically strong because she's a woman, yet this is only very subtly hinted at, and the movie has no problem showing her weaknesses and struggles. I even thought she was too emotional at first compared to the book, but then I realized this was the right choice that allowed to show her humane side without generous inner dialogue that does the job in the book. Absolutely masterful character.
Even gender swapped Kynes character in Dune felt different than usual - it was done with absolutely zero fuss, like they happened to cast a woman actor for the role and just went with it. Ultimately this didn't affect the story at all.
I hope one day we can once again have a female led movie that's an actual movie, and not a campaign, you know like they did for decades up until a few years ago
Just re-watched "Aliens". Ripley is the kind of female lead we need. Worked to get into her position. Gets knocked down and gets back up. Good at what she does. Human like the rest of us. Not a Mary Sue.
Are you suggesting that swapping a lead character for a gender and race swapped superior-in-every-way version is getting a bit sus?
Yes, like Ripley, Leia, Sarah Connor and... i dont know, somebody can help me? (sorry for my english)
@@HolaMundoTheMisteriousAG *Alita!*
I think of how good Kill Bill is. If that came out today and by a different director it would be a travesty 😅
You are 110% correct in Hollywood has bent over backwards with Inclusion being seen in every single television show and movie esp alternative lifestyle relationships
Absolutely right. When the shareholders profit drops so will “ the message”
I wonder how much Top Gun: Maverick has to do with this possible change of direction? It was fantastic and had a diverse cast which I’ve never seen anyone criticise. When the writing is solid, characters likeable and you tell a good story the money just keeps rolling in. Looking at the box office figures - TG:M has never dropped below $1m dollars per day at the box office after 2 months in theatres and its WW box office is over $1.3 billion.
I don't think Maverik has anything to do with it - it's more to do with a new Chief looking at the balance sheets & realising that pandering to minority interests, at the expense of the majority, isn’t affordable any more.
Maybe it never was?
@@markwilkinson4316 Yes, possibly. I don’t know anything about tax write-offs but for Batgirl to have made money in the theatres it would have needed to break at least $200 million (assuming it cost $100m to make and theatres take 50% of the box office). If they weren’t confident it would bring in at least that figure then they didn’t have much faith in it. Plus, it could easily have damaged the brand further if it was terrible.
@@lennon7575
That $200 million would only allow them to break even and that would have be $200 million in the US. Outside the US that $200 million would have a lower return to the studio and US distributors.
@@markwilkinson4316 I partially disagree. I think Hollywood has taken note of its success. They're all competitors at the end of the day. And ultimately they need to make money.
@@lennon7575 the cost of the movie was about 100 mil. But it would have had to spend another 50 to 100 mil on marketing. So the true cost was around 150 to 200 mil.
This means it would have had to have made at least 300 to 400 million just to break even.
Either way they would probably have made millions of dollars of losses, and ruined profit from upcoming, more lucrative franchises.
"Simply race or gender swapping an existing character isn't going to earn you the mindless applause it used to. Pushing identify politics into stories where it doesn't belong or presuming to lecture your audience on how they need to live their lives is increasingly causing them to vote with their wallets."
And its just pure racism.
It will get mindless applause, from the mindless.
No, no it isn’t.
Those things don’t even happen.
Touch grass, please.
@@acommonman8304 we don’t
Yeah. You actually have to consider, as Aristotle would say, the quality of the plot, the characterization, and the underlying message. The latter of which needs to be complex and nuanced, because life. Or at least not a mindless PC cliche.
I'm most likely alone in this, but I at least hope they keep the continuity of the Snyder movies, primarily of the Trinity, Man of Steel, BvS, and Wonder Woman 1 and the Justice League Snyder Cut. I know a lot of people hate them, and I agree that there are a lot of problems, but I genuinely like those movies, especially the actors and characters, and would like to see them actually grow.
With good directors, writers, overall a better direction, they could create incredible stories.
Maybe one reason they want to keep the flash movie, is to potentially use Flashpoint to soft reboot the franchise.
They could easily pull a James Gunn's The Suicide Squad, make a new Justice League movie, somewhat acknowledged the past, but from this point on, this is the new beginning. And by acknowledging past events, they wouldn't have to redo BvS. They could already have Batman and Superman on good terms and watch their friendship grow.
I am so glad your channel is doing so well. I hope you have a video explaining what "the message" 😂 is.
"You'd be amazed how quickly ideology falls by the wayside once the money runs out" you said it Drinker
Well a decade isn't particularly quickly, however the money can't run out soon enough imho.
Frankly, I'm amazed how slowly it's happening.
Yeah, money talks, bullshit walks.
As a woman, I wasn't even aware I was viewed as completely useless until they told me a few years ago. I didn't know that I was supposedly much better than men just because I existed. I didn't know that I was so fragile that they needed to lie about what women are capable of to make me feel better. Or that I didn't need to work hard, be a good person, or learn or even do anything to become better .. Because apparently I just am. Simply for being female.
Such a shit message. Idk wtf these people are even talking about with this "never had any female role models in films growing up" because I had dozens. But since they were just playing "female roles" instead of the male roles, they all of a sudden weren't shit I guess because the only way a woman is a role model is if she's doing what a man does and shitting all over any male characters around her as well. If she's just a normal female then she's not worthy of being a role model. She's gotta be smarter and stronger than everyone. She can have no flaws. Only men have flaws after all.
Yikes. It is well-established by researchers that less than a third of characters in books and movies were female, even less (!) if we look specifically at fantasy, sci-fi and superhero genres. Just a reminder: women are half of the human population. Yeah, if I tried hard enough I could find some role models when I was growing up, like Tomb Raider and Eowin, but is it okay that I had to TRY, that these were singular characters out of hundreds of cool male characters in my favorite games, movies, and books? Even cool heroines, like Arwen in the movies, had relatively minor roles, and the rest of the women were reduced to being damsels in distress or emotional support in everything I read and played. Is it a surprise that I got ridiculed and shunned in the geek community when I was growing up because I was the only girl in the room (why would there be more girls in the room when they weren't in the stories)? Is it a surprise that I was bombarded by sexist stereotypes by boys and men (did the stories not teach them that women are weak, dumb, emotional support characters)? Is it a surprise that I was ridiculed for my non-feminine career choices (but there is no harm in only casting women in "female roles"(c), right?)
Why do girls have to be content with scraps, why do we have to search for strong role models when boys are drowning in cool male characters? There is a reason why all people, including girls, always imagine men when asked to imagine "a hero", "a doctor", "a leader", almost any profession, there are actual studies of that, look it up. And it's not okay, it doesn't reflect the world, and if you think that's okay, being a woman, you are an idiot.
I dislike bad writing and unfortunately, many modern movies try to get away with bad writing just by casting a female lead. But the solution is not to go back to the times when women were invisible on screen, or were assuming solely supporting roles. If that's what the industry thinks, that's a disaster for us. I feel pain for the young girls who would have to go the same route of rebelling against the world when they could just be raised to feel like they have the same enormous potential and choices as boys.
@@HelgaMoro Yikes. That's a big wall of cope there. Sad.
🙌👏👏👏👏👏👏
@@HelgaMoro "It is well-established by researchers that less than a third of characters in books and movies were female, even less (!) if we look specifically at fantasy, sci-fi and superhero genres. "
Interesting. Must be because of sexism. Why must it be because of sexism? Well, because there's an inequality, and men and women are totally the same with absolutely zero differences in any way.
"Yeah, if I tried hard enough I could find some role models when I was growing up, like Tomb Raider and Eowin,"
Okay. You almost got me. I have to admit, that was pretty funny once I saw what you were up to. 'Role models like Tomb Raider.' My role-model is Zelda, he's such a bad-ass swinging around on that grappling hook thing and poking peoples' eyes out with the sword of mastery.
"but is it okay that I had to TRY,"
Back to the bit, I see. I'll play along; yeah if those are the two you came up with, I'm going to go ahead and assert that you _didn't_ try. Chun Li, Sakura, Ripley, Samantha Caine (she _epitomizes_ the 'Name of Caine' trope and is one of my all-time favorite characters for that), Sarah Conner (whom they did unbelievable injustices to in the woke Terminator films) Ann Lewis, the _actual_ Zelda, Marlene Angel, Kate Moor, someone you _definitely_ don't know about, Major Motoko, Joanna Dark, Claire Redfield, Jill Valentine, Zarozinia, Sonya of Ragatino. . . I stagger at the thought of how long I'd be here if I just started listing comic book characters that came to mind.
"that these were singular characters out of hundreds of cool male characters in my favorite games, movies, and books?"
Sounds like you don't _like_ all the video games, books, and movies that feature women then, since you say you have your favorites and yet have never heard of any of these names. I don't think you tried _shit_ , but even if there were _no_ women in such positions or roles, to answer your question, yes that would be okay. We do not have to include women in absolutely everything, I know, shocker.
"Even cool heroines, like Arwen in the movies, had relatively minor roles,"
A role which she stole from Glorfindel the elven warrior, yeah I remember.
"and the rest of the women were reduced to being damsels in distress or emotional support in everything I read and played."
Except they didn't, but even if they did, that would have been okay.
"Is it a surprise that I got ridiculed and shunned in the geek community when I was growing up because I was the only girl in the room (why would there be more girls in the room when they weren't in the stories)?"
There were plenty of women in those stories, even the kinds of women that you wanted. For whatever reason, action girls just apparently didn't catch your attention. _I wonder why_ . Most women _aren't interested in those kinds of characters_ , and you're just proving that point. It's not surprising that there aren't many women in those circles because the kinds of things that appeal to boys, don't typically appeal to girls, and vice versa. You often cannot make content for both at the same time. You have to choose. And I bet you got 'ridiculed by the geek community' because you said shit like this. I mean, hell, I've been ridiculing your insane statements right here. So would any man be ridiculed for saying his fucking _role-model_ was _Tomb Raider_ ! You mean _Lara Croft_ ? I swear, when I read that I had a flashback to that 2010 meme saying 'Halo is a cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything.' When you say goofy shit like that, you tell on yourself about why you're really here. You're not here for the content, you're here for the _attention_ .
"(did the stories not teach them that women are weak, dumb, emotional support characters)?"
Men aren't strongly affected by media cultivation theory. You _clearly_ haven't done your research on this. But then again, 'research' and critical theory are often strangers to each other.
"Is it a surprise that I was ridiculed for my non-feminine career choices (but there is no harm in only casting women in "female roles"(c), right?)"
It's not a surprise because everyone gets ridiculed for everything. Sometimes it's deserved, like when you say dumb shit about your role-model Tomb Raider. Though, given how severely you've distorted reality already, I have my doubts you're accurately reporting on that 'ridicule.' I know _I_ certainly would have either pushed you out of, or left, any group that I was already involved in if you showed up.
"Why do girls have to be content with scraps,"
Because you shit all over the table whenever you're invited.
"why do we have to search for strong role models when boys are drowning in cool male characters?"
There's that role-model thing again. . . no amount of 'cool male characters' can make up for a lack of a father in one's life, and that is the single biggest issue affecting young boys today, and it is the single biggest predictor for nearly every negative outcome you could imagine, including but not limited to poverty, homelessness, substance abuse, you name it. _But thank GOD they have the fucking Punisher_ , right? But it's _women_ that are the ones in danger, _distress_ , if you will, on this issue.
"There is a reason why all people, including girls, always imagine men when asked to imagine "a hero", "a doctor", "a leader", almost any profession, there are actual studies of that, look it up."
I don't need studies to tell me what I already knew to be statistically representative of reality. Most heroes, in fiction and in real life, are men. This is because of the choices men and women make, which they make because of their biology and evolution. Social constructivism cannot account for any evolutionary evidence in human behavior. Go learn something about epigenetics.
"And it's not okay, it doesn't reflect the world,"
Except it statistically does, and it would be okay even if it didn't. Nobody has any moral obligation in art save to bring their internal vision into the reality of their medium. The fact that you don't like those visions doesn't make you some artistic commissar that is empowered to pass moral judgment on the works of others. The fact that you try to set yourself up so, is probably why nobody wants anything to do with you.
That out of the way. you ever heard of the Sabine women? How about the Siege of Weinsberg? I suggest you look into those stories, along with the fictional stories of women that you're clearly not familiar with. The Sabine women, or the women of the Siege of Weinsberg, _they_ were heroes, without being warriors, they were heroes by being emotionally, as well as physically, supportive. They were heroic by their compassion, by their use of their status as women to prevent bloodshed. People like them, they should be your role-models, but they're too 'feminine' for you I guess, you being one of those people that believes only masculinity has value, and that women are only valuable to the degree that they behave in a more traditionally masculine manner. People like you don't just hate women, you hate the whole human race.
"I dislike bad writing and unfortunately, many modern movies try to get away with bad writing just by casting a female lead. But the solution is not to go back to the times when women were invisible on screen, or were assuming solely supporting roles. If that's what the industry thinks, that's a disaster for us. I feel pain for the young girls who would have to go the same route of rebelling against the world when they could just be raised to feel like they have the same enormous potential and choices as boys."
I am going to respond to this how I did to a similar, but reversed, sentiment;
"You see, it's for little girls. It's to show little girls that they can do and be anything they want, like a CEO, or a strong warrior, or president. All they need to do is walk in and demand it for having a cooch. By contrast, that's why we tell boys that they're going to have to bust their asses, scrape and scrap to get every ounce of success they can because the world will not easily give any of it up. Naturally, that's why there are more hard-working female go-getters than ever before, and males have just turned lazy , like the guys working on a cure for cancer.
Wait a sec. . . I've just been told that it's actually the other way around, that due to all the entitlement messaging, women in general now behave like they're owed something, and men are withdrawing from society to work their asses off behind the scenes?
Oops."
Stupid Anon,
👏👏Fantastic reply. One of most long & epic micdrops I've read in awhile, brought a tear to my eye. This was refreshing.
What I get tired of is movies that feel the need to have every social representation in a movie, even if the story does not require it, even if it doesn't add anything to the movie/story, even if it would be unrealistic to the story. Lets use Liam Leeson's recent trash movie 'The Ice Road' (2021), there are few characters in the film, but they made sure they had whites, blacks, latinos, native Americans, LGBTQ, strong female, and disabled characters. You couldn't have two CIS white men in the truck, you had to make sure the second was representing some other social group. Total trash.
Great and accurate analysis, as usual. Love following your output, so make sure to hide from the cops looking for the... dead croco ;)
"They're just going to dump 100m into a pile and set it on fire..."
I think that was Lightyear. Except it was 200m.
Let's be real here, even without "The Message" being cramed down our throats I think that the era of Super Hero movies is coming to an end. It was never a question of if, simply a matter of when.
"The Message" simply killed it quicker.
Exactly
But good movies about superhero characters like the batman
Logan
Sam rami troligy
Nolan troligy
Even the first blade movie imo
Wil always be remembered
Correct, far too many are being churned out now with too much over the top special effects above everything else that makes my eyes tired, I actually preferred the days when you got one or maybe two well made big blockbuster sci-fi/action hero movies a year back in the 70s,80s and 90s that had good pacing and a feel good personality to them which I could watch more than once. Today's movies with actors with zero personality or screen presence makes for a cold hollow experience.
Please let it be true, as someone who never liked any of these super hero movies I can only hope that it's finally over.
@@jamesmacleod671 Honesty I'd rather rewatch classic WWII movies and series.
Now those are Hero Stories.
not an end more a wind down. they will still pop up from time to time like cowboy films did after their domination.
Doom Squad is one of the very few things that seems to be working, and it is a streaming series. I also think that Shazam 2 “might” work, but this is mostly because the first one was a pleasant surprise for DC.
Thank you, Drinker, for guiding us through these dark times in cinema…
What an absolute waste of Michael Keaton agreeing to return as Batman.
Affleck should be the main DCEU Batman not an old ass man. And I like Keaton but they should use him sparingly in flash. Save him for Batman Beyond
@@justice_productions_ Affleck is an old man no matter how good of a toupee is in the budget.
@@justice_productions_ There shouldn't be a "DCEU"
@@justice_productions_ it seems they want to part out Batman Beyond aspects to female bat characters
@@KeeferMaddness Nah you’re making that up, they literally just canceled batgirl.
I feel like we're seeing the first ripples from the impact Top Gun made now. That movie proved that old-fashioned American hero stories are still in big demand, and put the lie to the idea that burying our icons and replacing them with more diverse equivalents in the only way forward. Batgirl and Supergirl are both icons in their own right and have significant fanbases, but I think it's pretty apparent from what we saw of those movies that the filmmakers weren't interested in doing those characters justice, only in using them as spokeswomen for THE MESSAGE. I don't blame Zaslav for not wanting to let DC debase their own characters for the sake of an ideology that clearly isn't popular or marketable anymore. If they want to take another pass at it and do it right, I'm all for it, but I'd rather have no Batgirl movie than a terrible one that spoils peoples' perception of the character. #JusticeforBabs
Drinker's point about the first Woman Woman movie is also interesting, part of the reason that movie is so good is because the filmmakers didn't feel the need to prop Diana up with a bunch of self-conscious girl power nonsense. Instead of constantly telling (rather than showing) the audience that she's strong and independent or contriving situations where she has to put uppity men in their place, the movie simply allows her to be heroic and trusts that her strength and virtue are self-evident to the audience. Of course, Hollywood didn't learn a damn thing from that and practically every subsequent superheroine movie has been a bunch of tacky pseudofeminist nonsense (I don't think WW1984 fell into that trap, it was just a weak movie that needed a script doctor).
Agreed
WW84 failed to deliver on many fronts. I was primarily disappointed in finally seeing Cheetah on film who's a millionaire and badass in her own right reduced to a jealous nerdy chick while the Suicide Squad could have been better without Pacemaker. And don't get new started on the Birds of Prey flick. I want that hour and a half of my life back
I don't think the first WW movie is good. It's way overhyped. Terribly written, terrible villains, overuse of that electric violin.... it's watchable but it's not a good movie.
Not to mention that the male protagonists in the first WW movie weren't beta simps. They contributed to the success of the good guys with their strong traits rather than keep getting in the way of the strong, invincible woman ( :coughing: Rey :coughing: ).
They were a team. And each of them, both male and female, we're allowed to actually be heroes.
Bang on with Top Gun. That was the last croak of explaining crappy box office returns due to covid or Trump or climate change or whatever. Money talks, sh*t walks.
Dude, the first time I ever saw one of your videos, the "go away now" amused me and I've been a fan ever since. Love your reviews. They're honest and entertaining at the same time. Drink 'em if ya got ;em, bro.
just wanna point out that the channel The comment section with Brett Cooper used your "THE MESSAGE" quote, and I couldn't be happier. Love both your channels, cheers
The drinker's characterisation of "The Message" is honestly one of the best summaries of what a moviegoes feels when exposed to virtue signalling movies
@@michaelnolan4349 Cry harder.
@@michaelnolan4349 What's a pro-life message?
@@michaelnolan4349 i see, but that sounds alot more like a regret of not being a father rather than a 'pro-life' message
It doesnt sound like it fits the statement you made above
@@michaelnolan4349 ah, but that's not an invalid thought, i didnt watch the movie
THE MESSAGE!!!
Brendan Fraser deserves his own hero movie, he was the best thing about The Mummy Franchise, Tarzan, that Canadian trooper character, and etc. The dude can act and deserves more stripes on his jacket, hell is if he plays a retired hero
*Watch Doom Patrol series and you'll get a good impression how awesome Fraser acts in the superhero genre!* ☝️😉☕
He never played Tarzan lmao, he was in a movie called "George of the jungle" which was a Tarzan parody of sorts, which I highly recommend btw
I think the Canadian trooper movie you're talking about is Dudley Do-Right.
@@niggardlylad2008 george of the jungle is one of the greatest comedy movies ever made, and I'll fight people about it.
@@qrimsonrex7836 it's wierd that he's mostly known from the "Mummy" movies ,an action role, when in reality he started as a comedic actor similar to Jim Carrey
0:55 you had a real opportunity to use that joker burning the pile of money clip here
I think cancelling and or refusing to make this crap anymore is a step in the right direction to be honest. There is a reason why these horrible, sociopathic, narcissistic totally detached from reality idiots (current year actors) behave the way they do and genuinely believe that they can.
Things like this might go some way to correcting them.
Imagine pouring $70 million into something that will never see the inside of a theater 😬
It happens in Spain all the time. Corruption
Grand Muff Twerkin It must have been truly awful if WB wants to completely abandon the movie. And really, it is line with Zasalov's modus operandi. He's not afraid to cancel things and go against the grain. Whether or not this will mean good things remains to be seen. He says he wants a 10-year plan for DC and makes it in lieu of the early MCU films and time will only tell. But as the old adage goes: money is everything in Hollywood. No amount of agenda pushing will change that especially during tough economics times.
@Batgirl Tax
It won't even be seen on screen anywhere. Not in a way that will recoup actual money anyway...
I think it was 90 million 😬😬
"When other companies realize you can safely drop the message and the people peddling it, well the next year or two can turn out to be very interesting".
Amen and let's hope that happens.
Thank you for your honesty. We need more courage like that.
Fuck those companies, Im out..
I think some of the damage they've done is permanent. A lot of people woke up (not THAT kind of woke) to what a garbage dumpster fire hollywood is and have zero intention of ever watching one of their products ever again. Ofc millions will forgive and forget but millions won't. The Golden Age of Hollywood is over and they did to themselves.
But what about Warner's ESG score (Environmental, Social, and Governance score) given to them by Larry Fink, CEO of Blackrock - a $10 trillion multi-national investment management corporation? If Larry stops giving Warner money because they are not woke enough, and tells everyone they are a bad investment, how is Warner going to keep running?
@@sirtrevis David Zaslav Isn't a fool, he knows how to make money as it was under his guidance he was able to revitalize Discovery, Inc. (Discovery Channel, TLC, Animal Planet) during a massive downturn and as such might not have any faith in this ESG score nonsense, as for why well theirs a good chance Blackrock will become the next Enron as there's been a lot of people sounding the alarm that Blackrock might not be as financial stable as they appear.
@@Doomwolf82002 Now, that's good news. Well said.
Date night with my wife has went from dinner and a movie to just dinner for the past 3 years. And as for watching movies at home, I look for anything that's been made before 2016!
I can't wait to see the day when audiences sit down to watch a film, and just minutes before it starts, staff comes in and tells everyone it's been cancelled.
You met my daughter at Tampa Bay Comic-Con and signed a book for me. Thank you, mate! I’m the one she told you was a writer, and that the book is called Dark Revenant. Anyway, she was thrilled to meet you and I love the book you signed. 🙂👍🏽
Please do.
@@groomys67 What a lovable little scamp you are!
U should
The fact that they actually pulled the plug might be a sign that they're more aware of how bad movies are actually not good for the brand long term and maybe they're finally learning. I'm hopeful.
In many cases the damage is already done for the long term, at least for me it is.
I see no reason to believe this is a bad movie other than the fact that is stars a woman of color
Dude! So spot on. Yes, agree with you about the ideology vs money argument. I think/hope that even Disney will have to come around. Even though they have tons of money and can slime the hole for much longer, even they will have to, someday, come around. Unfortunately, it may cost us Marvel and Star Wars. Hopefully, there will be something from somewhere to replace them. Thanks again. Really good explanation.
1:25 this happens to me at my job all the time. Spend years siting, permitting, studying, and designing large infrastructure projects only to have a change in government or public opinion and have the whole project cancelled.
This is what maybe 1 or 2 years of work and a few tens of millions of dollars lost? Pshh, I've seen much worse.
Am I the only one who had never heard of this movie before they canned it?
@Batgirl get out
Nope.
You're not the only one. I'm all the way with you man.
me too
Me neither and who cares. I'm still waiting on a good superman movie. Red hood, deathstroke, green arrow. Its not hard to make.
It's like Razorfist said, the people pushing "the message" are a fraction of a fraction of the fanbase who use bots and social media to create the illusion that they are Legion...but they're not! This is the best news we've had in ages!
Not to mention that woke cult was being used by BlackRock Fund(A Hedge firm who have very woke ideals) and not to mention that Hollywood's corporate sector also embraced the flavor of the mouth trend and that was the beginning of their downfall. Because in the end the woke cult was being used and they didn't have any real power to begin with.
I work in social services. I swam in "woke" long before it hit the mainstream. Other than my own discomfort with my professional world clawing to replace science and free speech with "the message", I have you and Dr. Jordan Peterson to thank for helping me out of the sewage, by expressing the discomfort in an understandable and riveting way. Now, I'm not ever going to wear Tucker Carlson undies or anything like that, but at least it made me feel confident that what I was thinking...and yes, feeling, was not a delusion, and that others were there with me. Have one on me Drinker.
75% of my female family and friends say they can't wait for decent strong female characters like we use to have before it became "an agenda" ;-)
I've said it many times, "Diversity is like a fart, if you have to force it, it is probably shit." Of course, diversity isn't the only thing that phrase can apply to, but that seems to be the most applicable for these recent times.
Nothing worth salvaging from diversity anyways.
I need this comment on a t shirt
I couldn't agree more! I'd love to have diverse casts if they weren't all handled so horribly
@@mixedupproductions9923 There is organic diversity, and there is forced diversity. With organic diversity, you wouldn't give it a second thought because it wasn't concocted to be that way, and things just happen. I have no issue with that, and I think shows like Star Trek TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise are a semi-decent example of it. It isn't shoved in your face, it isn't there to set an overbearing example, it just is. Then you got forced diversity, which is like Discovery and Strange New Worlds, where the wamen have to be a predominate part of the cast, there has to be at least one, but in this example there are multiple LGBT roles, and the white guys have to sit down and shut up or be belittled to let the POCs have their way. There is nothing egalitarian about forced diversity, and it sticks out like a gangrenous thumb.
@@danielwesley5051 id totally but that t shirt with a cheers meme below. Epic idea
The rumor that came out was that by not releasing it, Discovery can take it as a loss covered by insurance or a huge write-off. Based on what they've reportedly been doing recently with CNN (behind the scenes so far) as well as Warner, it appears that Discovery is trying to salvage the brands they purchased and make them more accessible to everyone. And when you're making a shift that dramatic, might as well rip that Band-Aid clean off immediately rather than string out the pain, I guess.
There are rumours that Batwoman or Batgirl was supposed to replace Batman (ie. Batman would be dead). And Supergirl was going to replace Superman in the same way. What is DC without Batman and Superman? So I think this is why the movie got canned. It wasn't because it sucked. That's just an excuse (and it probably does suck). It's that the entire movie's premise was based on the destruction of primary WB/DC IP (ie. death of Batman, Superman, etc.) and releasing the movie, even if it made $500mil would still be a longterm loss. WB wouldn't hesitate to release a bad movie to get at least some of their money back. There had to be something in there that hit their pocketbook and where reshooting the movie was impossible.
@@alienrenders - Replacing Batman and Superman would be IMPOSSIBLE. They've made BILLIONS of $$$$$ for DC and they're NEVER leaving comics or the movies. Only a mind numb robot would even think about replacing them with females. Us. guys ain't never ever going to buy that scenario. Get woke, Go broke !
@@alienrenders propaganda cartel to keep us dividing remember how in 60's Hollywood movies were promoting a lot of divorce
Wasn't that the plot of The Producers?
@@alienrenders Eh, it's not like it's the law that all the DC movies have to be in a cinematic universe. I mean, they JUST rebooted Batman AGAIN. So I see no reason why they couldn't release those movies as one-offs and then never mention them again.
This was gold. Keep up the good work.
I'm eagerly expecting your take on Prey. I mean, I've watched it and know what it is, but I am curious to see what you see.
Cheers!
What's interesting is that this is kind of similar to the situation with Chaos Walking (the movie with Daisy Ridley and Tom Holland), where the first version was "unreleasable". But with that, they eventually reworked it and released it a year or two later.
Given the state of movies being released today, I'm honestly baffled and horrified at the thought of just how bad it would have to be to get flat-out canned.
Dang I wonder how bad it was... The books were way better and I was definitely disappointed with a large portion of the movie. Still, I am so curious to know how bad the original film was. There's a whole trilogy of books for gosh darn sake!! How do you screw it up that badly!?!?
Right!? The first suicide squad movie was so bad it barely made sense and they released that. Granted that had little to do with “the message”.
For years now (perhaps a decade or more) the hyper focus on sociopolitical messaging has left these movies in narrative and structural poverty and it’s become the norm (almost formulaic)… I can’t even imagine how bad this film was for them to scrap it
I once ran the numbers for Chaos Walking. Here's what I found:
Budget: $125,000,000
Domestic and International Gross COMBINED: $27,075,660
And they only made an extra $3,000,000 on DVD sales. I guess some is better than none.
@@farharbor3178 Yup.
It's dealing with the sunk cost fallacy. The movie is already 90M, and marketing it would cost another 90M, give or take. If the film is unwatchable enough, then it will cost another 90M to produce from the bottom up. If you don't think that you can make even the first 90M back, then just dumping it would be easier than a 150% increase to the overall 180M expense.
If they were willing to release "Birds of Prey" I can't imagine how BAD this must have been.
Different people in charge.
That movie and Sonic came out near close to the pandemic start and only one succeeded.
You mean Turds of Lame?
I mean Birds of Prey wasn’t BAD..
What do you mean Birds of Prey? That movie was really good compared to Suicide Squad (2016), Justice League (2017) and Wonder Woman 1984.
At least Birds of Prey was bad in an entertaining way
Honestly we could stand to lose about 75% of the comic related projects in development. Regardless of whether or not the films are crap or not (which you know a sizeable portion of them will be) the market is just over saturated with too much of the same content at once. I think people are finally getting over it.
Every movie about some comic book character is in hard rotation,
on the 200 cable TV channels I have....all the crap I never watched
in a Theater...I quit the News tube addiction and almost started
enjoying the machine again. Books...always the available friend!
I really hope the Flash movie wipes the slate clean and starts a new Cinematic Universe that is planned and isn’t dog shit. It’s the only way they could be able to keep a DC Movie Universe alive. Ideally they’ll keep some actors who aren’t bad just need good directing and scripts but that could create confusion. Keep the Shazam actor, The Rock, Aquaman, and Henry Cavil and recast everyone else (yes even Ben Affleck) and do a proper DCCU
The irony in this: Now I actually want to see this movie, just to see what made them go "I'll rather cut my losses than to release this mess".
Even if someone with different standards has control now, accepting a loss like that is a extreme commitment
The movies are probably not finished.
@@bighands69 they are already at the test screening phase with batgirl, so a movie itself exists already
@@Shadowxx98
The modern movie industry is based on a cycle of reshoots. Normally what would occur is that the first version would be so bad they would go back and shoot again and produce a particular edit. They would go through several cycles of that before they get to the release version.
They are so devoid of creativity that they cannot produce a first quality cut as the whole emphasis is on the message.
The problem with this reshoot process is that the studios do not have the money they once had. Easy finance is not there to be tapped into anymore.
It is the reason why there is a glut of large scale studio films going to streaming that are sub standard affairs.
Maybe a bootleg copy will be released someday, or they'll decide to just dump it somewhere like Tubi. I hope so, then maybe the lead actress will make some money out of it, I mean, how else is she going to pay for those collagen injections in her lips??
"The Message" has finally started to run it's course. I feel for Keeton, and Frasier. Hopefully they will get something thrown their was in the course correction.
Ask Amber Heard whether it's good to have box office tumbleweeds like London Fields in your history, still dunno how that wasnt used as evidence against her "star is born" $100m lost career aspect of her claim
Fraiser is making a comeback, so hopefully he'll be in more. Did want to see his Firefly though, his costume looked sick.
Fraser is not making a comeback people. He is 53 years of age, overweight and is facing an industry that is in collapse.
The film industry is dead and you people have to just accept it. There is no turning this around. We are now entering an expensive capital market period with very high levels of inflation. There is not going to be any money to make the films that people are used to. Most theatres are not going to be able to withstand this.
We have never seen anything like this before. The destruction of the theater industry, really bad movie production and a digital theater experience that is inferior to a film celluloid theater of 25 years ago.
Imagine playing a video game console that is inferior to a SNES.
They won't
No way, drinker was at Tampa Comic-Con?? Man I was considering going but didn’t, had I known I might actually have gone
Well said. The approach of throwing things to the wall and seeing what sticks isn't the best, it turns out. Not only does this Batgirl not resemble the character with decades of appearances, her Jim Gordon (JK Simmons) won't match the last movie Jim Gordon (Jeffrey Wright).
Say what you will about me. Batgirl, Barbra Gordon, was one of my first ever crushes. I adored her on Batman the Animated Series. Her character and heroism made me addicted to redheads. And I'm thankful WB cancelled her film. It wouldn't have been a good time.
Batgirl is actually pretty cool character that forever gets the shit end of the stick
@@KarateWrestler205 I don't want to talk about Oracle 😂
@@Zathren she’s the try hard girl you want to see win and she just fucking doesn’t
@@Zathren she wouldn't have even been a red head in the movie because Hollywood hates them for some reason.
@@KarateWrestler205 She's like the hot DC Spiderman. Huh. And I'm a Spiderman fan boi too. Weird.
what really surprises me is how they haven't shelved or postponed The Flash because of Ezra Miller being a general disaster of a human being.
Exactly.
@@lalaleelo6480 it’s like Amazon’s lord of the rings they poured too much money to back out now
they/them
Ezra Miller, Amber Heard and race swap Batgirl, Warner can't just cancel ALL PR distasters they have in hands right now. They are keeping the famous known characters and praying to high heavens that old fans are unaware or don't care about the shit those two had done recently.
I think the next thing he'll be starring in will be an orange jumpsuit 😏
Why do they think they can change social norms by stupidly ruining established IP. Why not make their own shows. Or if they are going to make established characters keep it as close to the source as powerful. That's how you make a difference by making it profitable so more can be made. The taking the piss on men while using characters that men have supported us just insane.
You know what the best thing DC has done in recent years?
Make us appreciate how great the DCAU is
I came to express my sadness for Brendan Fraser losing a shot to get back on the big screen, but I'm delighted to see many people of both culture and empathy already doing it :')
*ruclips.net/video/vC0roEkkKkQ/видео.html*
Finally it's here. *YES*
I mean, the man deserves it. I’m glad Doom Patrol and his other roles have slowly helped revive his career. Man deserves it, you know.
he's making a Darren Aronofsky movie, he's gonna be fine
Gonna be honest, I would’ve liked to see this movie just because of the casting. Especially with JK Simmons and Brendan Fraiser attached.
But I’m afraid you’re right that it would probably be just like every other girl boss film.
I will NEVER bend the knee to "The Message"
Blows me away that any executive anywhere thought calling your most loyal fans bigots, misogynists and whatever ists was a good long term investment. I've been saying the last few years the company first to say they just want to make a good product and not worry about politics will rake in the cash. WB may be the one.
I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of these so-called 'woke' projects get attacked before they're even released, based on the prejudices of actual bigots, misogynists and whatever. A great example was Ghostbusters. People were attacking that movie right from the get-go, not because it was a bad movie (it was months away from even being released), but because they were virulently against having a female cast. When the movie actually turned out to be bad, the people who had been unfairly attacking it acted like they were vindicated, and never stopped to consider that it was a bad movie for completely unrelated reasons. The new Star Wars movies fall under the same umbrella. They were bad due to terrible writing and studio bungling, not because they dared to have strong female characters or black stormtroopers. You could easily replace Rose Tico and Rey with male variants (or Finn with a white actor) without changing the story one iota, and the films still would have been bad. Woke-ness had nothing to do with it. But that won't stop the trolls from running Kelly Marie Tran off the internet.
There's this weird toxic culture now where a movie isn't given a chance to succeed or fail on its merits, but is relentlessly attacked based on the bigoted preconceptions of racist and misogynist fanboys. The Batgirl movie is a great example. The toxic fanboys relentlessly attack it for being woke even though they haven't seen it, then when the movie is canceled, strut around like cocks in the barnyard, even though it's rather clear to anyone who follows entertainment news that there were a myriad other factors that led to its cancelation.
But to the Fanboy crowd who get all their industry insights from anti-woke RUclips videos, Star Wars and Batgirl and Ghostbusters are solid proof that too many women or minorities in your movie are box office poison. But they're bad for the same reason the first Suicide Squad movie or the theatrical cut of Justice League were bad. They're poorly written poorly edited, and hangstrung by studio interference.
100% there with you. I shudder to think of how far your head has to be up your digestive tract that you honestly think it’s a good idea to look straight at the people buttering your bread and tell them to take their money somewhere else, as if that act alone isn’t basically shooting your own livelihood in the fucking face.
I'm sure they were sold the idea of a much bigger potential audience if they carried "THE MESSAGE", but they should have realized well before now that it wasn't reality.
@@banditoheat Yes, this is it completely. They were sold leftist twitter and social media reflected real life and it does not. No one cares about this stuff except maybe 4% of the audience and they learned a multi billion dollar lesson that leftists do not speak for the audience and their opinion is tiny
Welcome to the reality where most executives are completely incompetent and got there because they are good at shaming other people and manipulating the narrative.
This whole shitstorm had Twitter in tears.
That's Twitter's natural state. No matter how trivial, insignificant or, indeed, inoffensive, they're gonna find offence. And then cry about it. A lot.
They'd not have paid to see it anyway, lol. They just love being outraged.
LOL none ofthem knew anything about it cuz they all thought it was going to theaters. The only reason they care about the Batgirl movie is becuz it stars a black Latina and has a trans character. They don't give a shit about the actual movie.
New to your channel and loving these videos! The main problem with the gender and diversity swapping of characters is, in my opinion, it is not done with positive intent - it is done to destroy the past. Hence they don't care about building a likeable, good, watchable new character. In most cases it seems to me they choose poor actors with zero screen presence.
You're critiques are spot on !!....you're saying what thousands are thinking...
Addendum: They wanted The Message to be central in their films. Only financial pain made them change. If you ever spend your money on these folks again, they'll revert to their own ways using your funding.
So seek out actors, studios, writers, and producers that haven't surrendered to The Message, and support them!
They will only bake it into the cost, using you to make money on good movies, so they can make "inclusive" failure movies that aren't designed to make money. They already do this with tons of everyday products you buy, but not for making movies, for donating to wokeness in the first place, and lobbying government policy for it too. The answer is to stop giving them money altogether, even if they make movies you'd like. They need to fail and go under, so that something better can rise up in its place. They will never truly learn from their mistakes. We need entirely new companies made from scratch that are too afraid of what will happen if they ever make those mistakes. So let it all rot and wither away, then a new company can buy up their assets when they're forced to sell it all off.
@@peoplez129 Oh Disney 😅😄😃🤣😂.
Why can't people who want do films about message just do it all time... but outside teams doing films about sups, cosmic adventure, spy masters and so on?
Zazlov has said that he wants to bring the focus back on the big characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. with big budget theatrical event films rather than mid budget straight to streaming movies. He’s also said that he’s arranged a team to devise a 10 year plan for DC similar to what Feige has done with Marvel, and that they are going to give the movies as much time as they need to be as good as possible.
So my two guesses are that they’re going to either:
1) Bring back Cavill, Affleck, Gadot, and place them back at the centre of the DCEU, start building back towards another Endgame level event. So a somewhat restored Snyderverse whether Snyder is back or not.
2) Or they’re just gonna make The Flash the finale for the DCEU and reboot it entirely with The Batman most likely acting as the jumping off point.
Either of these options sound better than what we’ve been getting recently.
I think they would be mad to go down that route.
Make a stand alone Superman and a stand alone Wonder women with cross over but do not make affleck Batman movies because it will cause so much confusion in the minds of the movie audience.
Affleck is a great actor and director and they should be getting him to make $20 million production movies and turning them into hits.
Warner needs a stand alone Batman world and keep it seperate from the other content. Batman can be its own thing as it is very well established.
Their recent Batman film made $800 million at the box office and the next film will probably push $1 billion. If they can find a way to overlap that Batman with the Joker movie they can really bring it in.
@@yanto0-10powerspike7 I was thinking the same. Probably DCEU needs a flashpoint and clean tables for any future projects.
You are all wrong.....the fish stink from the head...the message wont go away, it will be stronger and stronger......till we are gone...
They should have the Flash movie reset everything so they can start fresh or at least start with Battinson. The DCEU has too much baggage and bad will that's not worth revisiting. The old actors were fine but having them be around would just make people think of the Snyderverse. IMO get rid of them and cast a younger generation of talent that will lead the potential renaissance of DC movies on the big screen
The Batman is woke trash too.
I hope one day they will also realize that we are not only tired of the message, but superhero movies, and franchise movies in general, and start filming some original stories.
You're awesome, man! Please review Escape From New York (1981) - if you find the time and alcohol, ofc. I seriously believe that's one of the best action flicks ever created - and one of the best movie soundtracks ever. Thanks for your videos!
From what I heard, the reason for canning the movie came down to the risks it could pose to the Batman liscence as a whole. Basically, reaction to the test screening was so negative people were afraid it would end up damaging any future Batman movies going forward.
I don't know the only reason Batgirl was canceled was because it was cheaper to do
in fairness to your theory, x men is almost dead after all the movies they have screwed up.
So basically like every DC movie at this point, test screenings go bad and they go to panic mode. Nothing has changed.
I've been calling 2023 'The Year of Pushback' for awhile. People have been putting up with shit for years in the interest of getting along or not making waves. And the more shit we put up with, the more shit they heap on us. We've been on the edge of a pushback in a lot of areas for awhile and we've already seen or are seeing this starting to happen in politics, the media, certain mandates and orders, me-toos, inflation, public schools, comics, diversity-hiring, film, the agenda of certain insert-rights-groups.... A whole lot of passes we've been granting people who feed us shit are about to get revoked. I can't say how or why, but I think we can all feel a tipping point building up.
You're not that far off in my opinion. The Message and those who preach it have been around for years but I think it was Ghostbusters 2016 and Force Awakens that really begun pushing it hard. We let the latter of scot free for the most part but the former got a lot of criticism and for very good reasons that anyone with basic common sense can tell you.
Batgirl being shoved in my opinion is the beginning of the end of this trend. In any case, 2023 and the next few years will certainly be very interesting to see.
If people stop paying for the woke propaganda, they’re not going to just stop making it. The people pushing this stuff are revolutionaries and will not take no for an answer. The studios will get their funding from woke capital (Blackrock, etc.) or from the government itself if need be. Not watching it will damage your social credit score and mark you as a possible domestic terrorist/fascist sympathizer.
thank you. literally put into words what i and several others have had on our minds for years. so true
2022? Or can you see the future
@@AmazingAwesomeAlaska I think he's just projecting what's to come in 2023 by what's going on in 2022...and I agree! I haven't watched a new movie in a few years because of the crap they're making and of course...THE MESSAGE!!
Drinker, glad to hear you had a good con. Sterling work as always ✌🏽
Imagine paying an entry for a movie just to get insulted for being a man the whole movie and take moral lessons no one asked for instead of actually creating a bond with the characters and feel empathy through a well written story, struggles and self-improving.
You know, as a chlid, i learnt to experience the sadness of a loss with Bambi. No one needed to tell me "death is bad and you are supposed to cry and feel sad when someone you love dies", the movie makes you bond with the characters to the point when you put yourself in Bambi's shoes when his mom dies, and i remember crying for days.
As a teen, I didn't need no one in the movie "12 years a slave" to tell me why being a slave is not good for any human or to teach me how to treat black people, the movie simply makes you bond with the protagonist, and when he struggles and suffers just for being black or a slave, you feel the rage inside you because you can't help the character that you bonded with.
Nowadays, instead of creating any bond or empathy, they just plant a minority protagonist in every fucking thing, make them unlikeable and then complain and call you racist if you don't like the character. "Hey, if you don't like Ironheart it's bc you are sexist and racist, not because it's a shitty character with a shitty personality, a shitty story, no struggles, no consequences for her actions, etc"
Yeah i'm out of the MCU but pretty much all hollywood movies are turning into this moral message shit so i'm getting kinda tired of any new production. I pay to get entertainment not to take ethic classes, feel ashamed for laughing at dark humor or insulted for being a man.
It's surreal hearing The Drinker say "the message" without the echo and the woke collage. Anyway, it's sad if the only reason a film studio is moving away from the wokeness is because they're earning less out of it, not because they realize it's wrong. Then again like The Drinker suggested, they have to follow the money.
Exactly. Corrupt corporate hacks will never hold themselves accountable for pushing a pathologically amoral and anti-social and, dare I say it, anti-human message on an unsuspecting public who just wanted to be entertained with some reasonably made escapism. They will not be placed on public trial as they should. They will not be punished severely for fracturing society on behalf of some toxic narcissists, predators and fanatic ideological zealots. No, they'll just move on to the next dog and pony show. And that is the most disturbing thing about this.
They never cared about the woke stuff, they cared about money and Hopefully this "wakes" other companies to stop spreading that bullshit again...
I only hear it that way.
I don't know if he didn't put the echo on cause honestly that's how I heard it 😂
In fairness, they generally only went that why originally because they mistakenly believed the loudmouths on Twitter represented the paying majority.
I think following money is the right reason. It demonstrates that nobody is willing to put money behind "the message" anymore, which means they acknowledge it's little more than hollow pandering to unemployed graduates with too much time on their hands. If studios are following the money AWAY from "the message" then that means nobody cares about unemployed graduates with too much time on their hands.
“When you start seeing good writing in movies and comics again, they’ll be doing it out of necessity and that is when you’ll know that it’s the beginning of the end.” -Nerdrotic
oh, I don't think good writing is only done out of survival mode. Just give it time, the woke is being purged in both MCU and DC, and even Disney/Star Wars.
@@scottdoesntmatter4409 "Don't. Don't give me hope." 😭
@@scottdoesntmatter4409 marvel just cast a fkin drag queen in their upcoming show lmao
That's basically the situation Marvel Comics was in back in the late 90s/early 2000s (see Drinker's interview with Mark Millar for details). The comics crash of '97 hit them much harder than DC, and sales were down so much that there was serious talk of shutting it all down. They decided to make a Hail Mary pass by hiring a bunch of talented but unknown writers and letting them go wild with the characters, and it resulted in some of the best material Marvel has ever published and a big revival in sales. Once the MCU began and Disney came knocking, they started slipping back into the same bad habits that put them in trouble to begin with, and all we can hope for now is that they eventually get desperate enough to throw caution to the wind again.
@@timgoldberg3333 Thanks for the history lesson, I had no idea that was happening at the time!
I hope you are right. So we can get back to telling great stories, that happen to have a message instead of a message, that tries to someone is also a story.
Hey Drinker, will you be having a second chat with Adil and Bilall? Very interested to hear their take on this. I thought your first talk with them was very informative on several levels, and they were great sports actually talking to you!
I think for a lot of these companies, they put "the message" over the long term fans of franchises. If they put "the message" in, but in smaller doses and kept the main fans as priorities, then they could've gotten so much more love and money. A side Star Wars film like Rogue One where the main group of people are all non white, except the main white female lead. Yet no one brings that up for having "the message" because it's a decent little film with a decent story. Imagine if we had more like that, where companies could experiment with smaller, side films to see if people are as interested. If they're not, great, the company showed it's willing to experiment. If it they are, and it does well. Then the company could do more with what it had. Sadly, story and long term fans were left behind, and so everyone suffered.
If you haven’t seen it, the fan edit of rogue one called ‘rise of the the rebellion’ is a much smoother cut of the movie than the studio cut.
Better yet just drop the stupid f'ing message no matter the size.
Oh, they care about the long-term fans' _wallet_ , but they'll gladly call them problematic, gatekeeping racist sexists if it means deflecting criticism for their hack jobs.
Anybody consider that this is a rather cunning way to actually gin up interest in this movie and they're hoping to release it later?
Yup. Rogue One was the only film released post-Jedi that was actually good, because it 1) didn't jam "the message" down everyone's throat, 2) it was well-written and tightly portrayed (not much wasted time in that film), and 3) it fit neatly within the existing storylines that everyone already loved, without "deconstructing" anything or trying to portray what came before as some kind of abomination filled with all the usual -ist accusations.
And the main character was sympathetic and compelling and not an overpowered Mary Sue, who worked well as part of a team where everyone was valued.
I believe that prior to these last few months, we have been living in a period of excess: low interest rates, money printing has let consumers buy whatever and companies do/make whatever (including woke stuff). Now that we are entering (or have entered) a recession, companies are going to have to get more disciplined do/make things consumers actually want and will pay for - focus on quality rather than quantity (aka releasing a million subpar Marvel and Star Wars movies/tv shows)
Same point i was thinking on some level of my primitive brain, but way more eloquent so thank you!
@Alex - August 4, 2022 - Well said and I totally agree with you. It's always about money in any business. Companies are amoral and should be. If they can produce good products and do something positive for society that's great.
I mostly agree but think that the financial losses were starting to hurt companies anyway because woke doesn't sell but I think the recession we will be in(or already are in) is going to make the financial hangover Hollywood is about to experience all the more worse.
Thinking the same but i think the damage has already being done, they will have not only produce somethin people want, but also cut the bloat and be more reasonable with theyre spending, also i doubt we see the hughe production we have now
They are now going to target audiences that still have buying power. Disgusting really.
Hi Drinker
big fan
I was just wondering: what exactly is 'The Message' that you think DC movies have been trying to convey the last decade?
Hahaha - good one!!
So after researching this, the movie wasnt fully complete, there were still scenes left to be filmed, there were no vfx effects yet and it still had a placeholder score. The reason they wont release it is because they can write it off as losses in their taxes, good to note that the reason the movie was canceled was part of a $3m budget cut at the parent company after a mew ceo took over.