Does Regeneration Precede Faith? | Answering James White & Calvinism | With Leighton Flowers
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2023
- This is a segment from Jordan's conversation with Leighton Flowers on @Soteriology101 where they responded to some comments from Dr. James White (@AominOrg).
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Bro Leighton… I just have to tell you that I have been tremendously blessed and refreshed by your teaching of the scriptures. Your humble and honest look at the scriptures has ministered to my soul. Thank you very much!
Leighton is a Godless man, is not a Christian, and is an abomination. As are all those deceived by him and all the other Godless men who sell the 100% false manmade freewill gospel.
Keep teaching Christ and the cross Jordan & Dr. Flowers. We'll keep praying for you & Dr. White & his worshipers.
They dont preach Christ crucified. They preach crucify calvin.
@@ManassehJones No they don't and you are causing conflict and it's wrong!!
@@ManassehJonesno mate, you preach the gospel of Calvin !!!unknown to Christ but to the followers of Calvin who were chosen before the creation and foundation of the world to be reprobate .
@@markshaneh I'm not a Calvinist. I'm an elect son of God, born again from above by the will and grace of God alone.
@@ManassehJones Lol. That’s exactly right. They’re not here to preach Christ crucified. They are here to crucify Calvin.
Does anyone know what the intro music is? I like it very much but can't find it. Thank you!
Ever notice that Calvinists are only able to capitalize on the metaphors and never on the clear texts?
The Bible is a spiritual book and is only correctly discerned spiritually by the FEW Jesus has made spiritually alive. The spiritually dead and blind (the freewillers) have no ability to discern the truth of the Bible. This is why they completely fail to understand the truth of the Bible they call "Calvinism". Repent!
It's amazing how often James White completely misunderstands the actual arguments of those with whom he disagrees.
This is very true. I believe that he is so self-assured in his theology that it very much hinders him from being able to actually, genuinely listen to and understand those who have differing views from his.
DEVIL'S advocate: JW completely understands the arguments, but side steps them because he knows he cannot logically refute them. every calvinist debater i have heard, multiplies words, lots of handwaving, smoke and mirrors, and have NEVER clearly and succinctly addressed the points of contention, especially when confronted with verses that oppose regeneration before faith.
I think his sister may have said something like…he was amazing at refuting arguments that he created in his mind.
It's so so sad to see James White struggle to understand such a simple text due to his suppression of the truth for so long :(
What is so sad is to see anyone snared into the Godless worlds 100% false manmade freewill gospel. The gospel of the accursed of God.
@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6ed I don’t believe in freewill... but I do believe we have the ability to chose life or not as the bible says. To come to Jesus, come to him humbly as the bible tells us too.
Regeneration before faith is simply saying that one is saved before belief , which is nonbiblical heresy . This is actually one of the least offensive distinctives within the blasphemous claims of calvinism, sadly . The worst is the claims of calvinism that accuse GOD of hypocrisy and HIS hate of unborn children, and that HE created them just so HE could hate them and punish them in orde to show HIS power for HIS glory of all things. Only fools speak this way about YHWH because those who love and fear HIM and realize what HE has revealed in scripture about HIMSELF understand that to speak about GOD the way calvinists do is blasphemy by definition.
🎯🎯
Romans 9.
@sittlahaze4499 😆 🤣 😂. Romans 9 proves calvinism is false . Anyone who has read and studied scripture knows full well that Roman 9 has nothing to do with what calvinists claim it does . That is unless they were studying through a calvinist lense, which btw blinds people to the fullness and richness of scripture. That's why roughly 85% of christianity rejects calvinism and thats just the protestants. Calvinism is such a shallow theology and I pity those who are bogged down in it because it keeps them from knowing WHO GOD IS and what HE has actually done for HIS creation. Not to mention the vlaims of calvinism corruptly portray GOD and HIS righteousness. I urge you to rethink these blasphemous teachings you've embraced my friend .
@sittlahaze4499
What is it about Romans 9 that you made mention of it?
Thank you Jordan!
Calvinists in general and this one in particular make me want to shave.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is really good
Would love to set up a chat with both of you. this was great.
My mom got a seminary degree when my dad got his from Covenant Seminary, which is a heavily Calvinistic seminary. She really baffled her professors when they began teaching on Baptism, specifically Infant Baptism, as being synonymous with Circumcision in the Old Testament when she asked "Why baptize girls?" Taking a page out of my mother's book, proverbially speaking, I ask this to Calvinists. If Circumcision spoken of in the New Testament is the same as pre-faith regeneration, then does that mean females don't need pre-faith regeneration?
It’s the circumcision of the heart. The law was the skia. Hebrews 10:1
@@aletheia8054 That doesn't answer the question. Is prefaith regeneration needed for females? After all, only males were circumcised.
@@grahck4391 yes because it is the circumcision of the heart not the body.
The circumcision was a skia. That means a shadow of what the real thing that was to come. The real thing is the circumcision of the heart. Women have hearts too
Any thoughts or answers to his answer?
@@aletheia8054 that's the answer? Women have hearts too? So do dogs, cats, horses, and elephants. That doesn't explain if or why women need prefaith regeneration. Circumcision was a uniquely male ritual in Jewish culture.
Anyone who believes in baptismal regeneration knows that regeneration MUST follow faith. This is because baptism follows faith and regeneration is the last thing that happens in baptism. If you don't see where baptismal regeneration comes from, just read Col 2:11,12 and Rom 6 and take them literally and maybe you will see it. Circumcision is a "sign" according to scripture, but baptism is never said to be a "sign." How could it be? "Signs" can be seen, such as with circumcision and "signs and symptoms," but no one can "see" that you were baptized - except from your being set free from slavery to sin. Freedom from sin's power is the "sign" of the circumcision spoken of in Col 2:11.
16:00 This got me confused 😂 So, Leighton is watching a video of James White watching a video of Leighton watching a video of a debate of Leighton. That’s an inception :)
I'm a Reformed Baptist, I agree with the Canons of Dort, and all the other scary boogeyman things that anti-Calvinists and/or Dispensationalists don't like about Reformed folks. But, I haven't seen a compelling argument yet for regeneration preceding faith. I think a case can be made for regeneration and faith happening at the same moment, but not necessarily for regeneration preceding faith. This is where I differ with White, Sproul (rhymes with "soul"), and other Reformed pastors/theologians.
But I believe the Scripture where it tells us that the natural man can't understand the things of God. Without the Spirit, they are foolishness to him. The gospel is one of those things of God. No one can understand it without the Holy Spirit.
Additionally, Jesus is the Author of our faith. It has been granted to us to believe in Him. I don't think we need to take it further than Scripture says.
This is where you differ with the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible. You do not understand the gospel because as you said, the natural man (all the totally blind, lost, and deceived freewillers) are natural and carnal. They cannot understand the Bibles gospel, they can only understand the Godless worlds fake freewill gospel. The gospel of the accursed of God, of the spiritually dead and blind.
The fact that you mention that it is Jesus who is the author of the faith of the few who actually believe has with 100% clarity, and certainty told you that what the Godless world/church calls "Calvinism" is the Bibles gospel.
The few who Jesus has chosen are not granted to believe, they are made to believe. Just as the remaining 99% of the world are made to not believe and be deceived.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Jesus often divided people according their ability to hear spiritual words.
Ears to hear are a monergistic work of regeneration that happens before faith can come.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 ,...Again, one must first be made spiritually alive by Jesus. Only then can they hear, have faith, and believe. One has to already be saved before they can hear and have faith and believe.
The whole 100% apostate church thinks they are praising God, and believing Jesus but the fact is, they are not praising the God nor the Jesus of the Bible, they are praising the fake god and jesus the apostate church made up.
The people in all the churches do not have ears that hear nor eyes that see. They cannot hear the real gospel, they can only hear and understand the Godless worlds freewill gospel. They are all totally steeped in darkness, deception, and the Godless worlds 100% false manmade freewill gospel/christianity.
@@shadowbannedforspeakingtru1436 John 3.16 is much clearer than all your vague arguments
@@alaminosassemblyofgod3152 ,...The fact is, you do not at all understand John 3-16, nor do you understand any of the Bible. You remain unsaved, spiritually dead and blind, completely snared into the Godless worlds counterfeit (antichrist) gospel and christianity.
The actual truth of Gods word that I stated for your (everyone's) edification was not at all vague. It only appears that way to you because as I said, you remain spiritually dead and blind. You are accursed of God as you have shown.
Again, you dont just have the gospel all wrong, everything you believe and hold to is biblically incorrect. Your entire christianity is a manmade fraud. But, you, like all freewillers wont repent, you will all only reject the truth and just go right back to your wallowing in the mire.
Repent!
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3, ESV)
If circumcision means humbling yourself before God, as Leighton claims, what does Paul mean when he says it is a "circumcision made without hands"? Everything in this passage from Colossians 2 is about the work of God, not humble people circumcising their hearts, whatever that means.
Lol😂😂😂
God circumcising, the heart means you humble yourself
😅😅😅
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a *VOLUNTARY* humility…
Because it has nothing to do with physical effort or works.
then romans2:28-29 talks about true spiritual jews. the elect saints of john17
You are not listening carefully, the circumcision of the heart described in Rom 2 happens after you believe (have faith) and are IN Christ, which happens after you hear the Gospel and choose to humble yourself, realizing you are a sinner that needs Christ. And it's completely unmeritorious, because it's by God's grace that we are saved, it's a gift.
@@AlexShatterstar89 Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a *voluntary humility*
God did not choose me ,I chose God . I used my freewill and I chose God ,and when I stand before God he will say well done thy good and faithful servant and I will say yes I know . I just wish more people were as smart as me and use there freewill and choose Gods salvation also.
😂Bravo!
Which comes first? Let's just say you exercise your free will and choose to believe. How long after that moment are you regenerated? How could anyone ever tell? A whole lot of drama for nothing. Just make sure you let God know you made it possible for him to save you.
Since when is circumcision a sign of forgiveness? God established it to represent the covenant he made with Israel, as a nation. He’s nothing to do with individual salvation, whereas adult baptism is defined as an outward symbol of salvation.
An act of obedience; baptism saves no one
Because of freewill Adam and Eve Fall even in the presence of God. Man will always choose themselves rather God's righteousness. (Men always choose selfworth)
Since Men are dead to sin and cannot save themselves so by God's mercy and grace, God must do a miraculous work in people’s lives before they are able to believe in Christ unto salvation enabling them to hear and follow Christ (God's righteosness)
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Jesus often divided people according their ability to hear spiritual words.
Ears to hear are a monergistic work of regeneration that happens before faith can come.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
the "life before Jesus" thing isn't calvinistic regeneration. we are elected in eternity in Christ (spiritual/eternal reality -- we do not experience this). God regenerates us/we receive life (spiritual reality and temporal reality). we express this life (faith/temporal/experience). so there are different things working both eternally and in time which we do not understand and cannot adequately express other than what scripture says: we are sinners from birth (psalm 51). some are elect in Christ from eternity, and yet in our human experience we know Christ and experience regeneration in time, and then we express this regeneration as faith, and in a different sense, union with Christ. that verse about being "in Christ a new creation" that flowers uses to show that we are "not born in Christ" does not distinguish these realities. we do not believe all believers are born believers, but John the baptist was, so that's not impossible. so no, calvinists do not believe that we have life outside of union with Christ and then because of faith, are then in union with Christ. this is a misunderstanding
Worthy of note: Leighton Flowers has blocked me from his channel and I mostly just post scripture and respond to comments.
Yes, all the fake christian channels like flowers channel block those who provide actual Biblical truth. The only thing a so-called Christian channel will not allow is the actual truth of the Bible. 99.9% of the "Christian" channels on youtube are counterfeit and have nothing to do with the Bibles Christianity. Speak any Biblical truth there and you will be shadowbanned.
John 1:12-13. Salvation is of the Lord, yet we should influence non-believers to repent and believe in Christ. The Love of God compels us to see people to come to the knowledge of the truth, without being divisive. Let Scripture speak for itself and will set you free.
Siempre Reformanda.
@gusg766 Yes salvation is if the Lord.
Freely believing in Him is of man.
Stop conflating salvation with belief.
@@apilkey people dead in sin and trespass can not and will not believe. Your “ free will” is not what biblical responsibility ascribes to.
If I in my “ free will” chose God then I deserve kudos since the one who sat next to me and heard the same gospel message did not.
No, God saves one and simply leaves another . Let’s not over complicate it with human wisdom.
@@dfischer5878 I’m not over complicating it with human wisdom.
I’m stating the truth of God’s Word which is not human Wisdom but inspired by the Holy Spirit.
If you have a problem with that then you have a problem with God’s Word and reject Scriptural Authority.
Stop using freewill as a canard and try actually addressing the real issue which is scriptural authority and what does scripture say.
Nowhere in scripture does it say mankind is born with an inability to believe.
And scripture is crystal clear God has chosen to only save those who believe.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans:4:5
Faith it's not a work. I just don't get why calvinistics don't understand 😢
@@davidrivas9785 Yes bingo, exactly.
I don't believe regeneration before faith is a real possibility because it has to come by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit. We know he is talking about after the crucifixion of Jesus the holy Spirit is given, and the regeneration was not something they knew much if anything about before Jesus came and taught to Nicodemus in John 3:2-21. The scripture also tells this is true in John 7:37-39 that the Holy Ghost was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified. 1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory, that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever. Just as grace comes through faith, so does the new birth. Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed.
We don't go to boogie man labels like "Calvinism" to define what we believe, but rather, we go to the totality of the scriptures and the scriptures alone.
Faith is not an obedience that God first looks for in someone before He will save them, after all, while the Scriptures say that we are saved “by,” and “through” faith, they never say that we are saved “because” of our faith. Faith is not even something that those outside of Christ who do not walk according to the Spirit can have (Romans 8:7); in fact, the wicked do not even have the right to covenant with God (Psalm 50:16) - this passage alone is an insurmountable obstacle for those who believe that faith must precede regeneration, they simply do not have the right. Therefore faith is something that must be received from God (2 Peter 1:1).
Salvation is “because” of the work of Christ and given to certain individuals by the grace of God, and “through” the means of faith, but this faith is not something that is wrought in us by our own doing, it is the effect and definite result of His work in us (John 6:29, Hebrews 12:2, Philippians 1:6); it is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) that is the means through which man is sanctified (Acts 26:18); this sanctification is first positional - whereby we are first set apart as holy (Ephesians 2:5-6, Colossians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 12:27, 1 Peter 2:9, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Romans 6:2, 2 Peter 1:4), then it is progressive - whereby, over time we are saved from the practice and power of sin through an increase in holy living (1 Peter 1:15-16, Ephesians 2:10, Romans 8:29, 2 Corinthians 3:18, John 17:17), and then it is final - when in glory we are finally saved from the presence of sin (1 John 3:2). It is God’s grace that saves us, and He produces faith in us that sanctifies us (Philippians 2:13).
This sanctifying grace of faith, once God has given an individual the Spirit of wisdom and revelation to enlighten his eyes (Ephesians 1:17-20), is given by God through the ordinary means of the gospel (Ephesians 1:13, Romans 10:17), and is what permits an individual to submit himself to God and to desire to do so (Cf. Genesis 15:6, Acts 26:12-23); the righteousness of Christ is then imputed to him (Romans 4:9-25), and the Holy Spirit secures and preserves his eternal salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14) - this is the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).
What the spiritually dead and blind (freewillers) refer to as "Calvinism" is nothing more than the actual truth of the Bible, This truth is known and understood by all Christians 100% apart from Calvin. Calvin has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone understanding this truth, he is just the man/name they attached the truth of mans condition, salvation, and the actual Christianity of the Bible to. This way they can make the truth of Gods word look like it is just a mans opinion/idea and reject it.
All those who fail to understand the truth of Gods word that Calvin also understood, are all God haters, and this is why they hate Calvin, as Calvin represents the actual truth of the Bible to them. These Godless people do not want Gods salvation, they want their salvation. They dont bow to God, God has to bow to them, their will, and their authority.
Chosen before the foundation of the world, means one was chosen before Adam sinned so he was chosen before sin entered humanity. Sci fi kinda stuff !!
Being born sinner is no longer relevant l!!
John 1:12 is clear that God gives the power/authority to become sons of God! Case is closed. Greek word exousian. This word means “permission” or “authority.” The root behind this word carries the meaning of having the power to do something. But in this verse we need to notice carefully that this power or authority is not something that we have in ourselves nor is it something that we can claim as an entitlement. We only receive it as a gift.
At 31:08 regarding what "in Him" means...
Since Ephesians 1:3 is Paul’s first use of the phrase “in Christ” in this passage, it sets the context for how the phrase will be used in later verses, and in verse 3, the phrase “in Christ” is used to describe the sphere into which God’s blessing and choosing takes place, that is, based on who Christ is, and through His work of redemption, God has both blessed and chosen individuals. This meaning is more apparent in verses 19-20 where the phrase “in Christ” is shown to be the sphere of God’s operation.
Also, the words “in Him” is a very specific phrase used by Paul in Romans 5 and elsewhere to describe the Federal Headship of Christ over His people. That is, Christ represented those who were given to Him by the Father (John 6:44), that His work was specifically for them (cf. Romans 6:6, 8, Matthew 1:21), to bring them life (1 Corinthians 15:22).
Therefore, in Ephesians 1:3-4, The phrases “in Christ,” and “in Him” do not modify the word “us,” as if to describe WHO God blessed and chose, as if God chose those who have already chosen Him, for that would make His act of choosing superfluous, but it instead modifies the word “chose,” and it describes HOW God chose, and this is PRECISELY what Verse 5 says - “through Jesus Christ…” it speaks to the sphere, or the context in which God’s choosing took place. It is a reminder of the Federalism spoken of in Romans 5 whereby Christ is the representative of all of those who from eternity past were relationally foreknown, predestined, called, justified, and glorified (Romans 8:28-30) by Him. Simply stated, God’s choice of electing love in eternity past must be understood in terms of its relationship to Christ.
No amount of Biblical truth given to a freewiller will mean nor change a thing. These are the accursed of God, they are completely spiritually dead and blind.
@@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6edJohn and Paul both say the ultimate test of whether we're saved is love for our brethren. You comment lacks even the coldest love.
@@wretchedsinnerRighteousSavior ,....First off, please show me where the Bible states that the ultimate test of a Christian (a saved person) is love for their brethren?
Second, please show me where the Bible states that if anyone claims to be a Christian, they are the brethren of the actual Christians?
Third, my comment is the epitome of love. If you were not completely spiritually dead and blind, you would have recognized this.
The presenting of the truth of Gods word to the lost is love. This I have done for you and for everyone else. What you call love is hate, and what you call hate is love. The unsaved see everything the opposite of what it really is. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!
@@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6ed I'll happily show you, and furthermore encourage you to study the Word.
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:14-15 KJV
There's one, now read Galatians and find the other 😉
@@wretchedsinnerRighteousSavior ,...Sorry, but you have failed to show me anything other than your total Biblical illiteracy.
When this scripture states that we love the brethren, it is referring to first off, the actual brethren, and the actual brethren have nothing whatsoever to do with what you think are the brethren. Also loving the brethren means loving what the brethren preach, being in total agreement with them. All actual Christians of course, do this.
The fact is, you are in total disagreement with them. The fact is, it is you who hates the brethren and the truth of the Bible they preach that I have preached to you for your edification. You only love the counterfeit brethren that make up the 100% apostate church. You only love the false teaching and the counterfeit christianity of the fake brethren of the apostate church.
You have only again shown that as I stated, you remain completely spiritually dead and blind. You failed to show me where the Bible states the ultimate test of a Christian is their love for the brethren, as well as where the Bible states that if someone claims to be a Christian, they truly are a Christian?
Again, what you think are your brothers are the Godless, spiritually dead and blind, unsaved, Biblically illiterate, blasphemous hypocrites that are all Gods enemies. The truth is, you hate and are opposed to the actual Brethren, the actual Christians. You only love those like you who are completely blind, lost, and deceived, the counterfeit christians. These are not brethren to the real brethren. Repent!
Col 2.12 clearly states that the elect have knowledge of being raised to life "through the faith of the operation of God" - in other words, the faith given to behold the risen Saviour and the life, eternal life, that He gives through His perfect obedience to the Law, is a work/operation of God. The elect were quickened when Christ rose from the grave as their "life is hide with Christ in God" (Col 3.3). Jesus also talked about this work of God to the Jews in John 6.29 - "This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He hath sent."
Word!
John 6:29 is Jesus's answer to what the we must do. Read the passage carefully. In 26 and 27, Jesus says "you are seeking me, not because you saw the sings but because you ate your fill of the loaves. Do not *work* for the food that perishes, BUT for the food that endures to eternal life, which the son of man will give to you."
Jesus tells them to work for the food that endures. They then ask Him in 28 "What must *WE do, TO BE DOING THE WORKS OF GOD?* ". And finally, in verse 29, He answers "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
It's clear. The work of God that they're required to do, is believe. And the thing about that, is that belief isn't even a work. Jesus is telling them here, that there is no work for them to do to have life; they must simply believe in Him.
They have doubts though. They question His greatness. He tells them again that He is the bread of life, who has come to give life to the world. And something calvinists like to skip over and reject, is John 6:40 "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Again, sort of a restatement of verse 29, God's will is that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life. He gives those who do, to the son.
Please, take great care to examine the scriptures rightly, and do not allow unbiblical presuppositions to twist scripture, or you will find yourself in a place where you are rejecting the very words of life that God has given us.
@@christian_gamer_guy6447
Faith is the gift of God (Ep 2.8), is a work/operation of God (John 6.29), (Col 2.12), is given in measure to all the elect of God (Rom 12.3), (Mark 9.24), is given for Christ's sake (Phi 1.29), is not given to the reprobate (2 Thes 3.2), of which Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of (Heb 12.2), is accompanied with saving repentance (Acts 5.31), gives hope, joy, and peace (Rom 15.13), (2 Thes 2.16), shows God's eternal love to the believer (1 John 4.19),without which it is impossible to please God (Heb 11.6), and is the means God uses to declare to the elect sinner they are righteous/just in God's sight (Rom 4.3).
Looking, hearing, coming, eating, drinking and believing all mean the same thing and it is a sovereign work of God (John 8.47), (Pro 20.12) who is the Saviour of His people (Jonah 2.9), (Mat 1.21), and is a work He will infallible bring to completion (Phi 1.6).
God's will indeed is always done (Dan 4.35), (Job 23.13), (Eph 1.11) so the preservation of the saints is a guarantee (John 6.39, 40), for they all shall be raised to eternal life on that last day as they are one with their Head (Heb 2.13,14), who defeated death and hell when He rose the 3rd day for all those who He eternally loves (Jer 31.3).
If God preordained everything then Moby Dick is the word of God.
???
@@dfischer5878 What part are you confused by?
If everything is decreed by God then by neccesity that includes all that is said and written.
If all that is written is decreed by God then the Novel Moby Dick is also decreed by God, and in effect is as inspired as the Bible.
@ericfisher1360 -- Correct.
If man's choices are not self-caused, then every nasty comment on the internet was brought forth according to the Sovereign Will of God, OUTSIDE any human will or exertion, by which man COULD NOT have done otherwise, for the good pleasure of Gods will to glorify Himself.
@@primeobjective5469 Calvinism is a pretty silly doctrine.
Oh look the revilers for whom Gods grace is insufficient that they must attack true Gospel believers and teachers from their lack of knowledge
These Godless people do not want Gods grace, they want their freewill. They dont want God to be in control, they want to be the ones who are in control. They decide if they want to be saved or not, not God. They have thrown God out and put themselves in Gods place.
We are told about all this here,.....
2nd Thessalonians Ch. 2,
3, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5, Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"
my conclusion is still regeneration precedes faith, because men can not fix their sinful hearts alone. you can not come to Jesus by your own will, unless God Himself work within you, the sinner!
John 6:44 "No-one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Correct. One MUST be first made spiritually alive by Jesus before they can believe, have faith, repent, etc. All these things are the result of one already being born again, (saved).
The freewillers have everything completely backwards.
Amazes me how in the Calvinistic viewpoint, any and every verb can be changed to mean "compelled, erases human free will."
@@Joan-ph2es ,...When you say the "Calvinistic" viewpoint, what you are really saying is, in the Bibles (Gods) viewpoint. And this is the viewpoint that those outside of the kingdom of God have no understanding of. Biblical truth is not understandable to you, you can only understand the false teaching and ideas of Godless, spiritually dead men.
Freewillers are God haters. They do not understand the truth of the Bible and when presented with it, they revile those who give them the truth of Gods word, just as their spiritually dead, blind, lost, and deceived mothers and fathers did to Jesus and his disciples.
Freewillers only love and want their 100% false manmade freewill gospel that is the gospel of the accursed. Repent, how long will you freewillers remain totally steeped in darkness and deception?
@@shadowbannedforspeakingtru1436
No, that's not what I said. As noted, Calvinistics = altering texts to suit POV, while ignoring what's actually said.
May God help you escape this quagmire.
Paul taught i 2 Timothy 2 not to engage in foolish speculations. Jesus taught us to love one another. Are we obeying him about that or pumping our egoes over speculations. Obey Jesus. Love one another and leave these speculations to God. We cant change them anyhow.
At 0:44, 21:07, and at 22:09, when do we get "in Him?"
Every Christian was created in Christ, chosen before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4, 2:10) called as “a chosen race, a royal priesthood” (1 Peter 2:9, cf. Hebrews 5:4), and was also in Christ as our federal head and representative when He died and rose again (Romans 6:1-14; Colossians 2:12; 3:1-2).
According to 1 Corinthians 1:9, those whom the Father has given to the Son (John 6:37) are brought into union with Christ when they are effectually called (cf. John 6:44) and embrace Christ by faith; faith being the fruit and justification of salvation (Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 3:28, 5:1, John 20:31). Our faith in Him is the effect and definite result of the work of God (John 6:29, Hebrews 12:2, Philippians 1:6); it is “not of ourselves” (Ephesians 2:8-9), because it could never be (Romans 8:7); the wicked do not even have the right to covenant with God (Psalm 50:16), therefore faith is something that we receive from God (2 Peter 1:1); only then does 1 Corinthians 1:30 become true of us: “and because of him you are in Christ Jesus.”
(Incidentally, Psalm 50:16 is an insurmountable obstacle for those who assert that faith must precede regeneration - they do not have the right)
Essentially, faith is a product of man’s fellowship with God, and it is the means of mediation initiated by God through which the Mediator works to save those whom He has both chosen and called, bringing about our sanctification (Acts 26:18).
Think of our union with Christ as a coin with two sides. From the divine side, our union with Christ is secured by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who is the bond of that eternal union (1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13-14). From the human side, the bond of our union with Christ is the Spirit-granted faith (Philippians 1:29, Acts 13:48) that embraces Him as He is presented to us in the gospel (cf. Acts 5:14; Romans 16:7b, Philippians 3:9).
The power (the Spirit) to believe comes from God; but the act (faith) is our act, though it is guaranteed for and given by the Lord to His elect. Until we believe, we are outside of Christ, and we must believe to enjoy the full benefits of salvation that He has purchased for His elect.
The freewillers are the accursed of God, those he predestined to be vessels of wrath, and brute beasts made for destruction. They have all corrupted themselves in their 100% false manmade freewill gospel that is an abomination, and has left them all 100% desolate as they clearly show to any with eyes to see.
"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:" Romans 9:22 KJV
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" 2 Peter 2:12 KJV
"But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." Jude 1:10 KJV
I think whether Regeneration precedes faith or after is not the very heart of the issue. Calvinist Sovereign grace or Arminian Prevenient grace is still required prior to faith and salvation. Both camps affirm historic definition total depravity in scriptures, that God must move first in the heart of a totally dead in sin because the dead cannot raise themselves in any way.
As long as God moves first in the heart of man drawing him to Christ, Total depravity and inability is affirmed, then we don't run into semi pelagian views that these men are propagating.
No matter how practical and appealling their arguments are to some, they still have to redefine total depravity and talk like semi pelagians....
That man is not really totally dead but response able left on his own.
God did moved first. Most people in this debate or discussion between Calvinists, Arminians, and Provisionists; and anywhere in between these camps affirm God moves 1st. He is the initiator of salvation. But how does He move first? How does he initiate? He initiates through Scripture, through taking on flesh and coming to this earth to die on the cross, through His resurrection, through creation/natural revelation, through the Holy Spirit moving and convicting. Those are examples of God moving first and initiating salvation, but we're called to respond in faith.
Sovereign grace and prevenient grace were created/distorted by the philosophies of prideful men who chose to complicate salvation and appeal to mysteries when God is not the author of confusion. We place our faith in the initiator's work i.e. grace. We didn't earn or deserve Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. We didn't earn the resurrection. We didn't earn the Scripture. We simply place our faith in the grace (work of God through Christ and the Holy Spirit) of God to save us. That's how we're saved by grace through faith.
No complicated explanation of sovereign grace and who is and isn't chosen based on the great raffle in the sky and appealing to mystery. No prevenient grace needed because it's already been done. Jesus said it is finished. Let it be done. Just accept what He did, and stop adding the philosophies of man to His Holy work. It is the pride, tradition, and arrogance of man that make salvation complicated, not God.
Peace be with you and God bless!
@@jamesoncross19 I respect your opinion but the same critique also applies to libertarian freewill theology imposed on scriptures by humanistic philosophers. This is famous in many religions. Cheers!
This doctrine is madness.
Doesn’t feel good does it?
Yes it is. All of Gods biddings [invitations] are our enablings.
@@larrybedouin2921 Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
That’s why I complete my salvation with fear. Because God is the one in charge.
It don’t feel good
@@aletheia8054 Can you give me one verse that says God working in our lives doesn’t feel good? It doesn’t feel good because lies never do… they sit poorly upon the soul… something truth never does, yet ye say it is certainly the truth… because Calvinists say so, and ye worship them…
@@billlythekid5780 Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
I’m not a Calvinist .
There is no massive confusion when it comes to what regeneration is. It is that prevenient work of God within a person that enables one to choose Christ. To deny the necessity of a prevenient grace (work) of God in a person, just is to butt heads with the entirety of orthodox Christianity. Calvinists call this regeneration and Arminians call this prevenient grace.
But the thing that creates a problem in Calvinism is that they limit prevenient grace to a select few, and then make it irresistible. It isn't the same because the extent is limited. Either God loves everyone and truly offers salvation to everyone he loves, or he doesn't.
That’s right. This is the heart of the matter. where all the calvinist versus free will discussions lead to in the end
ruclips.net/video/LEeQDGciaxI/видео.html
A god who commands a person to repent and believe, then withholds that repentance and belief from them, then condemns him to eternal hell for failing to repent and believe, is not the Loving, Just, Merciful God of the Bible. In its attempt to exalt His sovereignty (which I believe is sincere), Calvinism assaults God’s very character and changes the gospel from Good news to all to the very worst of news for the non-elect. It is a very serious problem.
@@ruthmayforth5933 the truth doesn’t feel good does it?
@@aletheia8054 It is Self Determinists just doing what they're Theistically Determined to do.
Calvinists theologians have made Calvinism unfalsifiable and, therefore, unable to be tested to see if it is of God:
2 types of God's Will:
Will of decree vs Permissive Will
2 types of God's love:
General Love vs. Salvific Love
2 types of faith in God:
Non-salvific Faith vs. Salvific Faith
2 types of God's calling:
General Call vs. Effectual Call
2 types of death & resurrection:
Non-atoning sacrifice for the Reprobate vs. Atoning sacrifice for the elect.
2 types of God's grace:
General Grace vs. Irresistible Grace
2 types of divine life:
Regenerational life before faith vs. Eternal life after faith.
Their implications generate a false god who commands obedience, but has SECRETELY decreed DISOBEDIENCE, for the GOOD PLEASURE of His Will to glorify Himself.
It’s not false because you say so.
The freewillers are the accursed of God, those he predestined to be vessels of wrath, and brute beasts made for destruction. They have all corrupted themselves in their 100% false manmade freewill gospel that is an abomination, and has left them all 100% desolate as they clearly show to any with eyes to see.
"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:" Romans 9:22 KJV
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" 2 Peter 2:12 KJV
"But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." Jude 1:10 KJV
@@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6ed
You can’t really say that for sure. All are in unbelief until God changes them.
@@aletheia8054 ,...I absolutely can say this. It is the truth. God does not bring his chosen ones into a false gospel and a false religion. All the freewillers are where they are because God has rejected and accursed them. This is their destiny just as it is the destiny for those predestined for salvation to become saved, and to be separated (sanctified) from these ungodly people (the people of the church).
@@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6ed God gives each a measure of the Faith. And the faith has to grow and mature.
You can’t say if the measure they have more mature later in their life
Why would God create us? He is in need of nothing.
Are we just a toy of his?
Even though you know better, if your kids were forced to love you would that really be love?
His word is filled with…if, just believe, whosoever, etc…
What did Christ die for??
If all determined, then why suffer?
Which God is more sovereign, a god who must force relationship (not love) on his creation or a God that can accomplish his will (love &grace) regardless of our free choices???
God created mankind for his pleasure.
Jesus died for the few who are his chosen ones, his elect, not for anyone else.
The eternal destiny of all mankind was determined by God from the foundation of the earth.
Mankind does not have freewill. God does not answer to you and to what you think is right.
You, like all freewillers are completely blind, lost, and deceived. Repent!
@@shadowbannedforspeakingtru1436 Let's see if your game works for me too.
Mankind has freewill. God does not answer to you and to what you think is right.
You, like all determinists are completely blind, lost, and deceived. REPENT!!
🤔🤔Yup.
My brother, I am just joking with you. I must admit though,
I do think, the calvinist god is just a shadow of the Almighty God.
God is love, the calvinist god is wrath.
God is grace, the calvinist god is unable to truly love because his grace is limited.
(Get ready to GASP!) The calvinist god is unable to be vulnerable and calvinists think vulnerability is weakness.
Nothing is more vulnerable and nothing shows more strength than becoming your creation and allowing it to murder you because........
The ultimate vulnerability was the CROSS.
God does not need us to give him pleasure, He has no needs.
God does not need us to give Him more glory, He is unending glory
God does not need us to get Him more sovereignty, He is ultimately sovereign.
God is not worried about His honor. He needs nothing from us.
He only wishes to offer us a relationship with Him.
The calvinists god can't offer relationship, he must FORCE it.
Be vulnerable, drop the limp, weak calvinist god and let GOD really REALLY love you.✌✌
The natural man does not accept the things of God nor undetstand them, for they are spiritually discerned and the natural man is spiritually dead.
God is the author and finisher of a believers faith. Fleshly decisions can not give birth to a born again spirit . Abraham received a circucisionof the heart which then reflected itself in his outward circumcision. Ezekiel 36. God does it all , He that began a good work in you will complete . Nice try , give birth to one’s self by a decision in the flesh
Strange, esoteric, NEW AGE
Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Calvin doesn’t have to worry about that.
Exactly, and this is the very reason Calvin is hated so much, because he put forth the actual truth of Gods word. The people of the Godless world (freewillers) hate the truth of the Bible. They only want and love their false manmade freewill gospel and their counterfeit (antichrist) christianity.
No one who is not born again believes Jesus is the Christ.
11:12 This is off-topic but still important. The righteousness talked about in Romans (and really everywhere else in soteriological contexts) is the righteousness of God, not Christ's. This righteousness of Christ talk is part of the Reformed tradition, which understands the righteousness of Christ as consisting of his "passive obedience" (his death on the cross) and his "active obedience" (his obedience towards the law). They say we need the former to be declared not guilty and the latter to be declared righteous. Sounds profound, but it is unbiblical.
?? Christ is God. He's God in the flesh. God with us. The only true Lamb of God without blemish that would take a way the sins of the world. The righteousness of God is His righteousness.
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 The righteousness of God is provided by Christ's death for our sin. That is more accurate.
Of course James White is in error.
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, *by the word of God* which liveth and abideth for ever.
{1 Peter 1:23}
In whom also we [Ephesians] have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated *according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will*
That we [Christ Apostles] should be to the praise of his glory, *who first trusted in Christ*
In whom ye also trusted, *after* that ye *heard the word of truth* the gospel of your salvation: in whom also *after that ye believed* ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
{Ephesians 1:11-14}
All of Gods biddings [invitations] are our enablings.
In Ephesians 1:11, we see that God “works all things according to the counsel of His will.” This “all things,” according to verse 10 includes all things in the heavens and all things on the earth. The word translated into English as “work” is the transitive verb “ἐνεργέω” (energeo), which means “to effect;” since all “effects” must have a sufficient cause, this passage quite literally makes God the ultimate cause of all things in heaven and on earth. The same transitive verb construction is seen in Ephesians 1:19, 1 Corinthians 12:6, 11, Galatians 3:5, Philippians 2:13; see Thayer’s, pg. 215.
So, if a man has faith, it is because God has ordained him to, which aligns perfectly with scripture that declares that man's faith is a work of God (John 6:29), and that faith is something that man receives from God (2 Peter 1:1).
While you were dead, God made you alive. It can't be any clearer unless your man centered tradition gets in the way.
It’s only clear to the ones that God loves
You might like Grace and truth, ministries pastor, Jim Brown
Yes, regeneration is the new birth. The elect are born/generated physically into this world, with the same body of death as the reprobate, but at the appointed time, the Eternal Spirit will regenerate them, giving them eyes to see and ears to hear. After this comes conversion when the Spirit reveals their Head and Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, uniting them experimentally to Him. The Spirit continues graciously through the life of the believer, sanctifying them from this world of death in their new man, drawing them closer to the TriUne God, and preparing them for Heaven itself.
Thats not biblical.
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, *by the word of God* which liveth and abideth for ever.
{1 Peter 1:23}
In whom also we [Ephesians] have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated *according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will*
That we [Christ Apostles] should be to the praise of his glory, *who first trusted in Christ*
In whom ye also trusted, *after* that ye *heard the word of truth* the gospel of your salvation: in whom also *after that ye believed* ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
{Ephesians 1:11-14}
all i know is that the holy spirit wrote through paul in rom2:28-29 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
The WiLL of ART 🎨 Father #GOD_ℜOi is 4ÜS2 see shepherd SON#Yhvh_ℜOi and BELiEVE 👉#23matthew39 😇 4¹¹ #KingdomComeSuperMAN #Matt7:21
Flowers openly, and without a doubt, says he believes in LLW
It is the cornerstone of his believe
Libertarian free will is basically the concept that, metaphysically and morally, man is an autonomous being, one who operates independently, not controlled by others or by outside forces. According to the Pocket Dictionary of Apologetics & Philosophy of Religion (InterVarsity Press, 2002),
Autonomous means self law. Not controlled by Gods law or God at all.
Unless you are born again you will not see the Kingdom of God
Yes, we all know this, but what does this mean? How is one born again?
@@shadowbannedforspeakingtru1436God causes the person to be born again.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3, ESV)
@@abuelb ,...Yes, we all know this, and all fake christians will say this, but what does this mean?
Are you saying/believing that all those who claim to be Christians are Christians? Or are 99% of them frauds as is easily seen and understood by the few who actually understand what the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible actually is??
Imagine you have a big problem inside you called "sin." It's like a sickness that makes you do wrong things and disobey God. But God loves you so much that He has a plan to fix it!
Regeneration is when God does something amazing inside you. He changes your heart and makes it brand new. It's like getting a new heart that loves God and wants to do what is right.
Then, after God changes your heart, you start to have faith. Faith is like believing in God and trusting Him. It's like knowing that God loves you and forgives you for your sins because of what Jesus did for you.
In the Bible, in Ephesians 2:8-9, it says, "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." This means that God's gift of salvation is not something we can earn by being good. It's a gift that comes from God's love and grace.
God's amazing work of regeneration comes first. He changes our hearts and gives us the ability to have faith in Him. It's like He starts the process, and then we respond with faith and trust in Him.
Remember, God loves you so much, and He wants to give you a new heart and help you have faith in Him. Just like a good doctor fixes a broken heart, God can fix your heart and make it brand new! All you need to do is believe in Jesus and trust in Him, and He will take care of the rest.
They simply cannot see it. For to do so would mean that they would have to give up their precious freewill.
The flesh dies hard
2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2 Timothy 3:5 *Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away*
Yes, correct. The freewillers are all boasting about their fake salvation. Their fake salvation is 100% based on them and their works of believing, accepting, repenting, making a decision, etc. It is all based on their wills and their works. God has no part in it, it is all up to them to do something (work).
You seem a little confused, God only loves the few who are his chosen ones, his elect. God does not love anyone else. God is not waiting for anyone to do something (believe). One can only believe AFTER God has already made them spiritually alive. One can only believe/repent AFTER they have already been saved. Ones believing is a byproduct of them already being saved.
He said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted to him by the Father.”
John 6:65 CSB
It's actually not hard to understand. It's just hard to accept when your idol is your own freewill. Fear of sovereignty was there back in Genesis 3. The desire to be outside of God’s sovereignty and be in control of yourself.
That’s right. Free will is their god. Without it, they don’t have a religion.
Or just maybe all you see and hear is .....reformed, election, determinism?
@jolookstothestars6358 If you mean, I read my Bible....yeah. there's more in it than that. But God’s sovereignty is absolutely all the way through the Bible.
I won't patronize you. I didn't want to believe it either. Once I started seriously looking for it (I was actually studying how prophecy was possible if everything is NOT UNDER God’s control) that's when I noticed the scriptural evidence was insurmountable. I actually saw words in the Bible I'd have sworn weren't there before.
But yeah, keep reading. Even if you never agree with me. Keep reading. Have a blessed day.
I think that's quite the assumption to say without knowing me at all that free will is my idol? So I guess in response I should say election is your idol? I think we are just discussing how we interpret the scriptures and thats fine. Hope that makes sense.👍
What a silly and irrelevant comment Tom. Would be nice if you would actually comment on the points made in the video rather than commenting condescending rhetoric. Simply posting a verse from John 6 with Calvinistic assumptions behind it as if that accomplishes anything is little more than question begging.
Provisionism?😂 Nice theology invented by Flowers😂
The #NatsaℜiM #Righteous_BRANCH begins with #DOminGODeℜAMOS 🌴🕊 who SEEKS the TRUTH #Matt7:7 of #divineMERCY #Heb9:²⁸ #2ndCOMinG
*Circumcision of the Heart* is from the #GOD_of_broken_HEARTS 💔 *MERCY DiViDEAD* like the #BREAD_of_LiFE 🥮
*🐜Wę😜 predestined* #7000remnANT have the ⚖️ #TORAH_inthe_HEART 💞 #HEART_likea_TRUCK are 💪Strong's #Fibonacci_1123 🤔 *WRiTTEN SONS*
Those who FAiL to SEE the GoođLiving art Father #GOD_ℜOi 🕊 *First Named* in#Genesis16 are DEVOiD of WiSDOM of the #GOD_who_SEES 👁#Yhvh_ℜOi
ART 🎨 Father #GOD_ℜOi have alway *predestined* #7000remnANT *🐜Wę😜* the #NatsaℜiM 🌴 💪#MightyMEN in #DarWiN'$ #SURvivAL_ofThe_FitTEST
Survival of the fittest. Where less is more 😂
@@larrybedouin2921 Yes, and which Darwin plagiarized from the Bible. 😆
@larrybedouin2921 iA♏️ invisible to the eyes of the *đeceiveđ* so BLESSED are those who READ ♏️ę! 😇 #Avenger_AngeL
What a silly, nonsensical debate. There are proof texts on both sides. Quite frankly, this debate is meaningless.
There is zero proof for the Godless worlds manmade freewill gospel. There are only those with no Biblical understanding that think this.
@@shadowbannedforspeakingtru1436 well somehow they come up with a lot of verses for their side. Hmmmmm ….
@@toddstevens9667 ,....Yes, all the Godless worlds Godless cults are able to pervert Gods word to make it appear to say what they want it to say. This is exactly why there are so many supposed Christians religions as well as tens of thousands of denominations. All of them are frauds.
There is only one Christianity and the few that God has chosen to save, his chosen ones, his elect, all have and understand what it is. The Bibles Christianity is not found in anything called the church. It is completely outside of, and away from everything known as the church.
A Calvinist in Re to Harvest today said:
NabOwnzz threatened to try to destroy my faith today. He misquoted that my statement that Calvinism made God seem more like Thor or a Roman Emperor than like Jesus, the "express image of the Father". Then he said, about my statement,
*"but these seem to be the final pangs of despair of an expiring prey before the approach of a predator".*
Predator coming to destroy faith: him. Or he was either calling himself the predator? or the theology itself a predator.
I'll buy that: a theology taken from from gnosticism, protected and empowered by gnostic spirits (a great benefit for lucifer, to have his spin on God enthroned as "orthodox") and marked by the founder not only smuggling it in out of gnosticism, but being the first "Christian" leader to murder "other" Christians. Almost universally worshipped, placed above the Bible, for his intellect.
And yet, don't question that they are real believers, brothers and sisters in Christ, that they have a false gospel that is a heresy, that the horrible changes in the character and heart of God make it another God, another Savior, another Spirit, or a false gospel.
John Calvin on Ephesians 1 This is the second proof that the election is free; for if we are chosen in Christ, it is not of ourselves. It is not from a perception of anything that we deserve, but because our heavenly Father has introduced us, through the privilege of adoption, into the body of Christ. In short, the name of Christ excludes all merit, and everything which men have of their own; for when he says that we are chosen in Christ, it follows that in ourselves we are unworthy.
That we should be holy. This is the immediate, but not the chief design; for there is no absurdity in supposing that the same thing may gain two objects. The design of building is, that there should be a house. This is the immediate design, but the convenience of dwelling in it is the ultimate design. It was necessary to mention this in passing; for we shall immediately find that Paul mentions another design, the glory of God. But there is no contradiction here; for the glory of God is the highest end, to which our sanctification is subordinate.
This leads us to conclude, that holiness, purity, and every excellence that is found among men, are the fruit of election; so that once more Paul expressly puts aside every consideration of merit. If God had foreseen in us anything worthy of election, it would have been stated in language the very opposite of what is here employed, and which plainly means that all our holiness and purity of life flow from the election of God.
If the anti-Calvinist were right there would have been no Gospel for the last 1200 years and even not before that. If you were right it would go back to Pelagius about 400AD. About 20 to 30 million people died for not giving up their faith. Do you claim a heresy???? William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible and being a Calvinist on 6 October 1536.
The Catholic church became a Heretical church in about 700 around the same time Mohamed killed all the Christians in Asia Minor. After 700 to the reformation, there was barely any preaching of the Gospel. The Waldensians from about 1100 were persecuted by the Catholic church and joined the reformation under William Farel who became good friends with Jean Calvin. From the reformation to begin 1800, all preaching was Calvinist, I rather say reformed because we don't follow a man. Calvin brought the Bible back in the church. In the Catholic church, the Bible was a Forbidden Book for the lay people. Calvin Luther, Zwingli, John Knox and so many more opposed the teaching of the pope; one of them was conducting all worship in Latin so people did not understand a word of it. All the reformation did in opposing the Catholic [church]. What Leighton tells you goes back to Pelagius and did barely exist after that till about the teachings of Charles Finney in begin 1900 with Decisional regeneration. Arminius his real name Jacob Hermanszoon [Arminius is a Latinized name] never said much during his life because he was a professor in Leiden and could have lost his position. Dirck Coornherd after Arminius dead brought out his teaching and Uitenbogard wrote the 5 articles against the Remonstrant. After that as an answer, the Synod of Dordrecht 1618 made the 5 articles against the remonstrants. Calvin or even Arminius had already past-away. Calvin 80 years earlier. NO_ONE who studied history can oppose the Reformed teaching. That is because Historical bashing of the reformation does not make sense.
THIS IS HOW CALVIN PREACHED THE GOSPEL
He calls all men to himself, without a single exception, and gives Christ to all, that we may be illumined by him. When we pray, we ought, according to the rule of charity, to include all. God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, BUT THE INGRATITUDE OF THE WORLD IS THE REASON why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few.
Other than the result of men’s refusal. Calvin as you can see and put the responsibility by men.
What about 70 M Buddhist in Thailand. 95% of the population of Thailand are Buddists and 4.5% Islam. Do they have a freewill to accept the Gospel? Did God give them a free will
The children born in Thailand will grow up being Buddhist. For any to ever get out of it, there is a powerful miracle needed of a work of the Holy Spirit. NOT A CHOICE
@@MariusVanWoerden Self Determinists are decreed to be Lovers of Self. They wouldn't dare ask God to do anything to them against their imaginary autonomous free will they worship. Even their prayers are to Self.
@@ManassehJones I live in Ontario Canada. I’m have been a potter all my life. ruclips.net/video/owz9EsUknBA/видео.html but since my 16th I have studied nothing but the Bible, Theology and church history every day. When I was about 16 I was very affright to die being not saved. As the Scripture says no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. I’m 81 now.
It was because I went with my dad to a funeral of an uncle. There was an open Casket When I saw my uncle in the casket my whole body started shaking. And fear came over me. I said to myself it could be me tomorrow but even if I lived 100 yr. I have to stand before the judgment seat of Christ and I will be condemned forever.
In the next week, I went to a weekday church service. The sermon was: From Hebrews 9: 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. I started to read the Bible every day, study it and go to church during the week and twice on Sundays as much as I could. I tried to be better but after a year I felt more sinful and instead of better, worst. One night I could not sleep and I felt depressed I started to cry out to the Lord and said: “Lord God I deserve Hell but I cannot for eternity be separated from You.” I saw that one who dies without Christ will instantly be separated from our Creator. Even the atheist and Jews are held up by the God they do not believe in. That is why Christ at the Cross cried out: “My God My God Why have you forsaken me” That we would never be FORSAKEN from our Lord God. It was the deepest point of His suffering.
Then these words came in my heart: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” I saw that God The Father was well pleased with Jesus when He died at the cross and gave His Blood for many. I said Lord God If you are pleased with that scarifies at the Cross why Would I not be pleased with it. I saw that Christ was nailed to the Cross for my sins. Looking to Christ alone and not my righteousness. At that moment peace came into my heart. Peace With God that no one can understand except only through the Holy Spirit, I felt that the Blood of Christ had washed my sins away. I was 17 at that time It took the week after to completely comprehend what had happened. It’s all by Grace Just the Blood of Christ and nothing of me at all. If I lose all I have on earth I still have Everything. Those that were Never lost were never saved.
I know My Lord God hears our prayers I have 12 children from one marriage, one of them my daughter is in Heaven, and now also 30 grandchildren. The Lord has been good to me always. I have seen God's hand in my life so often but mostly when I went through a deep valley. I had no income whatsoever for 2 years with 11 small children. However every day we had everything we needed. My Lord took care of all my needs every day. It was the best time of my life. I have seen so many miracles happen before my own eyes. After 2 years we had an income again. My wife said: “one thing of all we sold I miss, that is the antique clock.” The clock had a special sentimental value for us. I said: “let me see if I can buy one the same.” Yeah, she said: “but it will never be the same.” I went to the store but there was no Clock even not one that looked like it. So I asked the owner if he still knew me. Yes, he said. So I asked if he ever get a clock the same as I sold him. To my surprise, he answered: “It is at my house, My wife took it home after you brought it in.” I did get it back for the same money as I got for it. The Lord knew that my wife would miss it and kept it for us. I would not have traded this for all the riches in the world. I saw my Lord God’s Hand in my life.
I don't have to fear dead IT IS ONLY BY THE HOLY SPIRIT that we can understand that God the Creator of all things Sent His Only Begotten Son for us to die at the cross for our sins, and come to know the forgiveness of sins for all those who put their faith and trust in Him. I feel so sad for people who have no understanding, of the true origin of life. or who live as if the law saves. My grandfather translated works of the Scottish Puritans into Dutch so we had lots of books at our home
@MariusVanWoerden When *Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness,* did Abraham "deserve" righteousness?
@@lindajohnson4204 Abraham was chosen by God to be the first fruit of the bearer of the Seed of Christs faith to the elect from every nation.
If you can't define it then it doesn't exist. Define the word choice without using a synonym of choice. Exactly! Choices don't exist. They're illusions. Calvinism forever.
There are a few words in the Bible in Greek that mean choice.
One of them is the Greek word hairasis. It means a choice as in a personal choice.
That’s where we get our heresy
@@aletheia8054 Define the word choice without using a synonym for choice.
The Bible is referring to the illusion of choice. All choices are illusions.
@@seangreen1992 I didn’t define it. The Greek lexicon does. The Bible was not written in English.
In Greek the main word for chosen is Eklego it’s a construction of the word logos, an ek. Logos means word, and ek means out. It means word out.
Or call out.
@@aletheia8054 My point is that we're not in control of our choices
@@seangreen1992 That’s not an illusion
Faith is the gift of God, not one to myself. Belief is also, also not from myself. My heart of stone God turns to flesh, also not of myself. God grants wisdom, also not of myself. God saves us through Jesus’ sacrifice, again not of myself. My mind is regenerated by God, also not of myself.
Somehow though some Christians believe they are the ones who do one of these or all of them. That’s just dumb.
You might like Grace and truth ministries with Pastor Jim Brown
James White is an intellectually dishonest person and he has proven thos over n over in his back n forth with brother Leighton through the years .
Lol! The back and forth of short video clips 😂
Leighton rarely debates live even though there is a long standing offer
@dfischer5878 I've watched White in debate many times, so you're obviously laughing at yourself. I appreciate and stand behind White when he is defending the authenticity of the bible and THE TRINITY, but when hes defending calvinism he often refuses to answer what he calls loaded questions , which are actually just straight forward questions that would make him uncomfortable to answer in public . White is a tactically good debater but being tricky and sly shiuldnt be a part of debate when its in house , it shoupd be straight forth and open because its supposed to be the truth of scripture being debated .I've never witnessed White represent opposing theologies fairly and I can see the utter disdain he has for leighton and he proves it with his constant ad hominem slurs towards him .Also, I don't care what Leighton does , this isn't a Leighton vs white showdown as far as I'm concerned, it's much deeper and more important than these two men are . I watch Leighton because he presents calvinism fairly while exposing the scriptural inconsistencies and contradictions of it's doctrines. In my opinion every camp has its inconsistencies and maybe even contradictions, but calvinism's inconsistencies and contradictions result in the corrupt portrayal of GOD and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. Which is blasphemy by definition. So, do you also claim that the blood of CHRIST isn't the blood of GOD as macarthur does ? Or that one will be just fine if they take the mark of the beast as macarthur claims ? I hope not , I hope you're truer to scripture than to go along with these false claims of macarthur.
If James White wants to be a Calvinist he better start studying Calvin and the Reformation. Faith is a gift of God, not to one who has the ability to receive it but in us, only by the working of the Holy Spirit without our cooperation. It is Faith that works Regeneration. Not the other-way around. Read what Calvin says about Regeneration
CALVIN DID TEACH REGENERATION PROCEEDING FAITH. Not according to John Calvin's own Institutes. In Book III, chapter 3, Neither does scripture. we find the following opening text that makes it very clear that regeneration follows from faith. After presenting this, I will show from the same text that Calvin equated "regeneration" with repentance..
(see Calvin in Joann. 1:13). For since pardon and forgiveness are offered by the preaching of the Gospel, in order that the sinner, delivered from the tyranny of Satan, the yoke of sin, and the miserable bondage of iniquity, may pass into the kingdom of God, it is certain that no man can embrace the grace of the Gospel without retaking himself from the errors of his former life into the right path, and making it his whole study to practice repentance. Those who think that repentance precedes faith instead of flowing from, or being produced by it, as the fruit by the tree, have never understood its nature, and are moved to adopt that view on very insufficient grounds.
This seems clear enough so we proceed now to Calvin's treatment of regeneration.
By repentance I understand regeneration (spiritual regeneration) , the only aim of which is to form in us anew the image of God, which was sullied, and all but effaced by the transgression of Adam. So the Apostle teaches when he says, "We all with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord." Again, "Be renewed in the spirit of your minds" and "put ye on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." Again, "Put ye on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him. Accordingly through the blessing of Christ we are renewed by that regeneration into the righteousness of God from which we had fallen through Adam, the Lord being pleased in this manner to restore the integrity of all whom he appoints to the inheritance of life. God assigns repentance as the goal towards which they must keep running during the whole course of their lives.
I strongly recommend that interested persons actually attend to Calvin's writings rather than assume they know what he taught. And special stay away from Leighton Flowers’s.
Faith is never ALONE? NO
Justification is a work of God the Father and the Holy Spirit in us and without us. Justification and faith do not have a sequence in time but in order Faith- Justification but are simultaneously in time. Sanctification is a work of The Holy Spirit in us but not without us. Justification and SANCTIFICATION cannot be separated. There is no sanctification without justification or justification without sanctification, this even when sanctification is just a begin of regeneration through all our life. Faith is by Grace and the free gift of God. The Bible teaches us the Justification of the UNGODLY. [Made/ declared Righteous] The UNGODLY is NOT REGENERATED. God The Father the Judge does not say: not guilty He says GUILTY But then point to Christ Not a believer is justified nor one that chooses justification.
This does not leave any room for salvation other than by the Conviction of the Holy Spirit of our lost state without Christ as being the first in Salvation of men. It is true what was said of old: “ Who Works First We Know Last.”
There is a general working of the Holy Spirit in the hearing of the Word that convicts and precedes faith but not always leads to salvation. See the parable of the sower.
Sheesh... who in the world is turtillian fan?...lol...Look at it again! That's part of why we don't trust your analogesis...😂
Within one minute of the video, the libertarian freewill worshipers tipped their hand.
By the sovereign freewill of your flesh, you go get yourself into a place called in Christ .
That is exactly how the free Willy’s think of it.
And James White nailed them from the beginning when he said they don’t understand that.
And the free Willy’s proceeded from then on to show, they don’t understand that.
I've said the Lord in His sovereignty decreed for us to have free will and retained the right to intervene any time He wants to fulfill His will. It's really very simple
They cannot give God glory for enabling them to believe, which is the drawing of those "being saved", to Christ, in which they hear "the gospel of their salvation" and at that very moment are "sealed" with the Holy Spirit, and at that very moment, once sealed, imputed with the faith OF Jesus Christ which is the righteousness of God.
They do not have the "ability" to see this Truth, thus proving Total Depravity.
Yeah. Like God causing them to believe is a bad thing.
@@wretchedsinnerRighteousSavior
Yep. That’s what all free Willy’s believe
Without freewill, they don’t have a religion
Funny you should say that; a consequence of the Calvinist worldview is that the movie "Free Willy" is as much the Word of God as the New Testament.
To all Calvinists you’re wrong in your theology, your beliefs, and doctrines. The Bible is not testifying to your faulty theology so seek god first and ask for direction because you are all obviously wrong
😂
Flesh-o-gesis. Profound. Leighton proves Total Depravity every time he tries teaching the Holy Writ. Determined to be so. There's no amount of an imaginary autonomous free will that can cause any increase, only God causes any increase.
Lol. you’ve coined a new phrase. Even the free Willy’s are using it.
Keep planting seeds on good ground
@@aletheia8054 lol
@@aletheia8054 LOL keep planting seeds on good ground if they're good ground they're already saved. Jesus didn't come for the righteous but for the sinner. And I'm hoping you will admit you were a sinner before you came to Christ like all of us were.