As Stannis said, the Iron Born are great sailors and fierce warriors. But they aren't soldiers. You can't win wars fighting the way they do, not anymore.
@@hiddendagger7291 that is just an office he was given, it's a very different thing to actually command a fleet against an equally strong enemy. Him holding an office means nothing if he hadn't fought a battle before.
Treated like trash by his father, looked down upon by his sister, even disrespected by his own men. If I were Theon, I would've ditched Pyke and the rest of the Greyjoys and just returned to Robb. At least he was respected and treated like an actual brother among the Starks.
@@ericpaunovic3579 Well he was supposedly the heir of Iron Islands. Something of that type of title is worth a lot for a man in that time. He probably wanted to be like Robb in a way
@@ericpaunovic3579 Yeah but the Starks killed his real brothers. It’s kinda hard to think of someone as your brothers when the only reason you know each other is because his father killed your brothers.
Looking back, Theon was a classic case of peer pressure. He wanted to impress his people so did things he didnt really want to do, but hoped might gain him at least some respect.
There's no such thing as 'did things he didn't 'really' want to do', he weighed the options between doing it and not doing it, and did what he did, no matter how you spin it, at that moment in time he 'wanted' to do what he set off to do, whether he later regretted it or not does not matter. 'Circumstances forced him to' is also something that is applicable to every decision you make.
@@Falonefal Its important to understand the sheer identity crisis that was Theon at this point in his life. Plus no one ever likes to mention how the Starks and others kind of purposely excluded him from being considered a family member. Yet after siding with the Greyjoys everyone wants to point out how the Starks were his "true" family.
@@dw3134 That is so true. Theon was always treated with disdain at Winterfell. For example, when he boasts to Bran that Ironborn are renowned for their prowess with the bow and the Maester goes out of his way to poke him about their failed rebellion against the crown. And remember when that wildling had his knife at Bran's throat? If Jon had been the one to save the kid, Robb would have clapped him on the back and praised him to the skies above. When Theon took the wildling down, his heroism was rewarded by Robb screaming that he was an idiot who deserved to be used for target practise. Make no mistake, neither incident justifies what Theon goes on to do once he's back with his family. But you can see why he scoffs in response to people saying that the Starks always treated him as though he was one of them.
@@thelegalconversations450 there were 130 ships when drogon dive bombs them at kingslanding. So he was 870 short of his 1000. Some try to say there were more off screen but they`re extremely clustered together at the port and the numbers dwindle the further out to sea it goes in the shot, so I doubt that
Agility is like the ability to run and jump like acrobatics in oblivion. They run hand in hand but not the exact same thing. That's why I said how ability but ok marksman
It's more like a 14 year old robbing the Federal Reserve and actually getting away with it for a while because of the absolute balls of that move, and then he stays there until he gets caught by the police
@@buddyfats4768 not really.. it was barely defended at that time.. literally no guards and no men to protect it because everyone was at the war for robb
It was a good idea, if they took any other castle Winterfell would send an army to take it back, but if they took Winterfell, everyone would be shocked, and Robb may even march home but be crushed at Moat Cailin, since Yara took it, and he expected reinforcements since he took one of the strongest castles in the North
@@freddy346ifyImagine if he took Winterfell looted and razed it to the ground and then went back to the iron islands with Bran and Rickon as hostages. He'd be the hardest man in the iron islands.
If Theon had just sacked Winterfell, burned it to the ground, and taken Robb's brothers as hostages to be ransomed, and then left as quickly as he came he would've done a lot better. Instead he tried to hold Winterfell for literally no damn reason
@@akmd114379 to demoralize the northerners and prove how much of a "man" he is to his father/family/people, and gain their respect. Like I'm just looking at this from Theon's perspective.
@@emie9858 but he was always treated equally and as a brother by the Starks and who better than having Ned as his father compared to that fool in the Iron Islands.
@@akmd114379 well duh. I think you misunderstood my intent, I'm just saying, following Theon's logic in the earlier seasons he would've done a lot better probably if he had done this
One could even argue that this decision to hold Winterfell is a proof of him being "Westernized" and not a true Greyjoy anymore Conquering and holding forts is the Westeros-type of warfare, Ironborns reave, burn everything and leave If he had done that, I'm sure he would have come home a hero
It's a lot different nowadays, as an enlisted sailor I can't think of or remember one of the names of any officers I served under during my time in the Navy. I do remember most if not all of the officers expecting respect simply for being an officer. I think Chiefs are respected way more than officers.
@@marioncobretti8210 That’s absolutely hilarious. I don’t remember a single Lieutenant’s name. They were never there long enough to make any effect before they rotated out. Total functionaries.
Iron borns are loyal in the books. Even they helped theon win winterfell when it was Theon's idea to march winterfell. On the other hand his men followed him even in the stupidest of decisions and died for him.
Damn... Theon's smirk at 0:11 just made me feel so sad. I mean, he just looks so content and hopeful at the time. He has no idea the fucking hell his life is going to turn into from that point onward.
if he really have done what he meant, things would have been so different. You don't threat someone with death. You hang him, and it's over. That's the way to make yourself get respect over here.
Threatening with death works fine if people actually believe it. However, he hesitated far too long before he made the threat, when the guy was already walking away. The way to do it is when he gets in your face. But Theon was intimidated and froze up.
What was that Twin said "Any man that says I am the king is no true king"? Same thing applies here. If you have to make threats on what you're going to do to someone instead of just doing it , you're just a child with a crown.
He grew up in a family of actual leaders, so naturally when he tries to lead like a leader he gets rejected. He should've just acted like another crew mate, they would've accepted him more like a friend than a captain but he would've had actual respect that way.
@@VuTran-mf7kj Then you take that fools head regardless if they like it or not his father is the fecking king and they'll shut up or yea goodbye head lmfao
As soon as old chap pipes up about “having pillaged for longer than he’s been alive” you say nothing. step down. Approach, gently place a hand in his shoulder, look him in the eye and say “that’s exactly why I need you here” and at the first sign of rejecting break his nose two or three times.
@@NoticerOfficial or give him a good spartan kick off the stairs then yell: discipline! thats what you need. you greatly lack of discipline from mainlanders 😤, i had a chance to revise their army professionalism havent you learn anything from my elder brothers? they all dead.
Good friend of mine, and a bloody good rep - Chris Finch, yeah, IQ of 142, one of the cleverest blokes I know, certainly the cleverest bloke you know, innit?
Theon's too much of a Mainlander. He tries to use the power of his title, rank, position, of exciting speeches and promises of being in the tales. These things motivate the more civilized people on the Mainland of Westeros but on the Iron Islands it's about ability. You can take whatever you want, if you're strong enough. You can be a leader if you've shown that you're capable. But Theon is too disconnected to really know this. He really has a tragic story, it'll be interesting to see what GRRM does with it.
@@Makalon102 we won't he sidelined the main books for the side books because those books are getting a show adaptation and if the show works then HBO will follow the trend of an cinematic universe and will need Martin on it
Exactly. I literally said something similar in another comment like 3 seconds ago. The Ironborn are very very different from the Northmen. You don't command them through titles.
I like the fact that the Ironborn are cowards despite claiming to not fear anything, and claim they'd rather die than run, or surrender, it makes them more realistic, not many people are willing to just die, when living is possible
Theon just didn't understand that he needed to earn respect. Balon wanted him to work his way up from the bottom, which for as bad of a person as Balon was, that makes sense. He'd been in Winterfell for so long, he'd forgotten what it meant to be an Ironborn. Theon needed to work his way up like Asha (Yara) did
@Captain J not gaining respect from evil pirates doesnt mean theon was incompetant. he was still a great warrior and archer. had he remained with Robb he would have been shown more respect and even gotten command of a division of men or two.
Theon arc is without a doubt one of the most tragic stories i've ever seen anywhere. He was taken away from his house because of his father, always treated like an outsider by the Starks and northern people, betrayed by his father and his own men, forced to turn against his own true family and capture winterfell, he was tortured and broken into a thousand pieces, his own uncle tried to kill him and in the end he died protecting someone he loved.
*The Starks didn't treat him like an outsider. He was an outsider but was treated like family. *If Theon wasn't so damn ignorant and arrogant he probably could of earned his father's respect and the Iron Born. *Noone forced Theon to take Winterfell, he made that plan for personal glory. (imo, Theon should of kidnapped Bran and Reckon, put winterfell to torch and returned to Pyke) Theon was young, brash, arrogant and really proud while being blinded by short sight. He deserved everything that happened to him and should of died soon after, not til the second to last episode smh
In the books, the whole taking of Winterfell by Theon and the Boltons sacking it later is a tad more complex, it's actually Ramsay in disguise who manipulates Theon, but the show gave it all to this guy to simplify the story.
Alfie Allen is probably the best actor on the show, Theon probably has one of the best arcs and interesting characterization in the books, and Show Theon was one of the only characters whose storyline wasn't ruined by Dumb & Dumber.
Laughs in Charles Dance. Sneers in Diana Rigg. Cusses in Mark Addy. And Frowns in Sean Bean. Alfie did a great job, but there are a few legends in the cast.
It's scene's like this that make me really want to see a Theon Greyjoy victory so he can shove it in his family's faces. Yes in the early seasons, Theon comes off as extremely arrogant, selfish, vain, and a bit of a prick, but the other Greyjoy's should seriously cut him some slack and give him a chance. Oh wait, that means being decent human beings for once... I forgot to mention how stupid Balon is at being a grand strategist. Instead of sending lots of men to reinforce Theon in holding Winterfell, he sends Yara on a fetch quest to bring Theon back to Pyke. After Winterfell and Moat Cailyn, all Balon needed to do would be to take the Dreadfort, Karhold, and White Harbor in order to solidify his control of the North. Then he could begin taking over the rest of the country from there. Oh but wait, that would require brains...
Balon's actually the one strategically in the right here. Winterfell is located inland, while the Iron Islands are a traditional naval power, making Winterfell incredibly difficult to supply, support and reinforce. Dreadfort is also located inland, with a large standing levy, and is protected on two flanks by hills, which would disorganize an Ironborn attack. Of the holds listed, only White Harbour is theoretically feasible, given its proximity to the sea, except for the small problem that it's on the other side of the continent. Theon had the advantage of surprise, but past that point was almost instantly overextended and stranded behind enemy lines. From a strategic perspective, Balon cannot afford to send any large contingent after Theon - and while it is a ruthless decision, abandoning him is a rational choice to a great extent.
@@yopiumtrader222 True, but then why did Balon even bother with the North at all. Why couldn’t he accept a military alliance with Robb and take the Westerland’s together, which would’ve been easier and more profitable for both sides. Balon just doesn’t think things through.
@@Confederate-hj2dc because in his words he doest want to be given a crown he wants to take it like and iron islander would and he thought the Lannisters were unbeatable
@@Confederate-hj2dc this is exactly what I thought. What the hell is the point in the end, if you know you can't hold anything. What are you even doing.
If Theon had just razed Winterfell, and then hauled ass back to Pyke with Bran and Rickon, they’d have valuable hostages and Theon would return a hero. Instead Theon got caught up trying too hard to impress the other Ironborn, and thus, hubris.
What Theon should've done: Loot & Burn Winterfell, take Bran and Rickon back to Pyke and present them to Balon. The Greyjoys would've won the war and Theon would've been recognized by his father
Theon fail when that man challenge him saying he could do they captain job himself, he should had cut his head right there without hesitation. Send a message to everyone else.
Gooby honestly theon was trainer by one of the best master at arms and isn’t skilled in the blade but isn’t a pushover, these idiots look like the only thing they can do is swing that’s it’s tbh
if it weren't for the 36 seconds of conversation at 3:09, then perhaps Theon would never have been such a tortured soul. He never would've weakly captured Winterfell, then never got caught by Ramsey as a result of holding such an unrealistically big stronghold with only a few men, thus, his decline would never have begun, and this moment could have been instead the birth of a potential great ruler.
'You're the crew of the sea b****' Imagine choosing between fighting at the head of the northern army (20,000 strong) with Robb and acting as one of his closest advisors and Robb naming him as his brother. Or being the captain of one ship called the sea b**** with 20 of the most sorry looking soldiers they had on the iron islands (clearly rejects or they'd be with Yara). Considering all that and choosing to captain the sea b****.
1:15 If you're being directly challenged like Theon is here, you need to assert dominance and set an example to the rest of your men. Theon let that guy crap all over him during those few seconds. The truth is that they knew Theon wasn't going to do anything. They felt no repercussions from rebelling against his command, they saw right through his demeanor and inexperience, and - ultimately - they felt no respect for him. Here, RR Martin is pointing out the futility of titles; a sheep can call itself a wolf, but that doesn't suddenly make it a wolf. It's not until the sheep rips open its prey and acts like a wolf, and then the other sheep will start to believe it.
I hate having to be one of those "I've read the books" arseholes, but the Iron Born seems like so much more of a threat in the books compared to the TV show. Maybe it's because of Euron in the books seems like such a bigger threat, plus he is more of a psychopath.
They attacked the undefended north and captured a lot of it, then completely failed to hold any of it. Euron's invasion of the reach seems to be going considerably better, but even he claims it's only a means to an end and that he doesn't care about holding the shields once the Tyrells are done with Dragonstone. Euron is a threat, the Ironborn themselves not so much.
@@Ismael-kc3ry there are arseholes who love to bark on about the book in a really patronising way to audiences who only know the show. But ElolmFizzy is not being an arsehole here.
Cuz respect is earned, not demanded. He has yet to earn their respect. To them he is soft like the wolves, they will only serve an ironborn. And theon has not fought with them or for them. He has yet to prove threat his is worthy of their respect. Compare theon to yara, note their differences and you'll get it :)
It's really simple Ironborn respect only those who prove themselves. They don't give a fuck about some twat who's ordering them around without proving himself.
+Nixon Perez It is a lot like in the books. Theon went to the iron islands all entitled and demanding obedience and submission because he believes to be the prince.
To be fair, nothing he could of done, short of beating everyone there to a bloody pulp, would have garnered him any respect. He’s an outsider, shacking with another house for a decade who he is currently betraying. Looked down upon by his actual family who he still helps. Then gets put to lead a crew that are older, stronger, and more experienced.
Bit too wordey / try-hard / smart-arsey, doesn't work on that sort of crowd. You wouldn't win them over or even challenge them / piss them off with fancy word games. It'd just make a rod for your own back. Stick to the basics like "It's about time." or "So you f***ing should." and play the long game. Notice Yara's was only 3 words.
While I do feel sorry for Theon for nearly the entire duration of the show, I do also find it somewhat comical how not intimidated by Theon Yara is 😂😂😂 She openly pokes fun at him, but simultaneously does care about him
Oh theon. Truly though, thinking he could go back to his estranged dad and get them to help their conquerors was incredibly thick, even for someone his age. Robb actually letting him go was worse.
@@saurabhkanhere7033it has everything to do with belief, money only has value because we choose to live under a system where we say it has value. If we experienced economic and societal collapse paper money or electronic money would be worthless. Only raw resources like food, water and useful supplies would be worth something. Also in season 5 when the sparrows took over Cersei tried to bribe them to let her go and Olenna tried to bribe the high sparrow to release Margery and Loras and it didn’t work. If money was power then why was Loras, Margery and Cersei arrested when they are some of the richest people in Westeros? Because the sparrows don’t value money. Like op said power resides where men believe it does.
his story is not about peer pressure. it's about glory. he obsessed with it, and his egotism is what drove him. he's a great character, but I don't think most people understand him.
He didn't pressure him. He wouldn't have an idea like that in a million years. The only reason Theon did that was because he knew the defences of Winterfell very well and he knew how to breach it.
I like how there were early theories when S2 was running that people thought Dagmer was Ramsay in disguise, given how Dagmer filled in as the replacement for Ramsay/Reek.
1:20 after he said all I need is a ship.. Theon was supposed to put a dagger through his throat & lick the blood off then look at the other men and smile lol
In a way, I think Theon NEEDED to become Reek to redeem himself as a person, to lose the narcissism and cockiness. It was a lesson he had to learn to redeem himself and become a respectable person.
Yes. But there are less brutal ways. He needed proper initiation. The ironborn are tough outlaws, while Theon grew up in an honorable noble family. He wasn't a made man in Winterfell, he needed a little more time before he could make his bones.
@@Ronin3453 like any man I enjoy my penis. But my penis is not worth my moral compass. In fact the world would be a better place, if people without one didn't have one.
You dont command respect from a bunch of hooligans with mere words; you have to show something, gut the trashtalkers who doesn't respect your command, prove your valor and most importantly give no quarter to thugs like this. These are pirates not soldiers, they got no discipline and only fear and violence keeps them in line.
As Stannis said, the Iron Born are great sailors and fierce warriors. But they aren't soldiers. You can't win wars fighting the way they do, not anymore.
J. Cobb what about at sea?
@@hl8808 Stannis destroyed the Iron Fleet.
@@cortex8608 Yeah in his very first naval battle lmao
@@bigassboy9343 but he was master of ships for long a time before that battle
@@hiddendagger7291 that is just an office he was given, it's a very different thing to actually command a fleet against an equally strong enemy. Him holding an office means nothing if he hadn't fought a battle before.
Treated like trash by his father, looked down upon by his sister, even disrespected by his own men.
If I were Theon, I would've ditched Pyke and the rest of the Greyjoys and just returned to Robb. At least he was respected and treated like an actual brother among the Starks.
And Balon gave his only son away just to keep his lordship. How is that any better than paying the gold price?
yeah, theons betrayal of robb never made sense to me, robb was good and loved him more than all ironborn put together, even yara.
@@ericpaunovic3579 Well he was supposedly the heir of Iron Islands. Something of that type of title is worth a lot for a man in that time.
He probably wanted to be like Robb in a way
@@ericpaunovic3579 Yeah but the Starks killed his real brothers. It’s kinda hard to think of someone as your brothers when the only reason you know each other is because his father killed your brothers.
@@lorddiaceliumchauffeurdeta211 good point
Looking back, Theon was a classic case of peer pressure. He wanted to impress his people so did things he didnt really want to do, but hoped might gain him at least some respect.
There's no such thing as 'did things he didn't 'really' want to do', he weighed the options between doing it and not doing it, and did what he did, no matter how you spin it, at that moment in time he 'wanted' to do what he set off to do, whether he later regretted it or not does not matter.
'Circumstances forced him to' is also something that is applicable to every decision you make.
@@Falonefal Its important to understand the sheer identity crisis that was Theon at this point in his life. Plus no one ever likes to mention how the Starks and others kind of purposely excluded him from being considered a family member. Yet after siding with the Greyjoys everyone wants to point out how the Starks were his "true" family.
@@dw3134 That is so true. Theon was always treated with disdain at Winterfell. For example, when he boasts to Bran that Ironborn are renowned for their prowess with the bow and the Maester goes out of his way to poke him about their failed rebellion against the crown.
And remember when that wildling had his knife at Bran's throat? If Jon had been the one to save the kid, Robb would have clapped him on the back and praised him to the skies above. When Theon took the wildling down, his heroism was rewarded by Robb screaming that he was an idiot who deserved to be used for target practise.
Make no mistake, neither incident justifies what Theon goes on to do once he's back with his family. But you can see why he scoffs in response to people saying that the Starks always treated him as though he was one of them.
More like "make daddy proud" pressure.
@@aromusbaspet9032 don’t forget the line when rob told theon they weren’t his family. This was after theon gave robb advice in battle
The Ironborn are just House Frey with boats.
But the frey soldiers didn't insult their lord like this. Theon should have killed him on the spot
Good pointe
I love this comment!!!!!!
Less heirs though.
No better way to put it
Yara bragging about 30 ships lol. Euron somehow assembled 1000 ships in a few months.. Writing in the late seasons sucking badly.
and there were no more than 50-60 ships when drogon attacked them.
@@thelegalconversations450 there were 130 ships when drogon dive bombs them at kingslanding. So he was 870 short of his 1000. Some try to say there were more off screen but they`re extremely clustered together at the port and the numbers dwindle the further out to sea it goes in the shot, so I doubt that
The North Remembers the good writing.
@@Nasmr1 the other ships were with the Golden Companies missing horses.
And missing elephants
When you didn't put any points into Leadership or Charisma
Or Strength. Or Intelligence. Or Endurance.
Just Agility and Marksman.
@@TheStraightestWhitest maybe marksman but how agility?
@@bigweiner4217 It's a joke. Agility determines archery in many games such as Kingdom Come: Deliverance, and the Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. That's why.
Agility is like the ability to run and jump like acrobatics in oblivion. They run hand in hand but not the exact same thing.
That's why I said how ability but ok marksman
He needs another gym badge if he want his pokemon to obey
Excellent
Assuming he has any to begin with
Steel Born
That was the corniest shit ive ever agreed with.
Poor Theon is a terrible pokémon Trainer
3:03 tries to make meaningful eye contact, realizes theon isn't looking
i dont get it
?
The greyjoys are just jumped up pirates
Nothing more.
They have such lovely skin, though...
Nope, they are based on the vikings. Reason why they failed so hard was because of Balon's shitty leadership.
Shawn W they are more vikings
viking means raider
3:43 Theon smiling
3:44 Sausages
Foreshadowing?
Wow, didn't realised that. Great shot!!!
You might be right lol
What are they if not sausages?
Anything but sausages
@@DeSaxofoonVanPeter
Meat sticks either way.
Theon taking winterfell is like a 14 year old smoking cigarettes to impress others
except winterfell is one of the strongest castles in the 7 kingdoms, so no its really nothing like that at all
It's more like a 14 year old robbing the Federal Reserve and actually getting away with it for a while because of the absolute balls of that move, and then he stays there until he gets caught by the police
@@buddyfats4768 not really.. it was barely defended at that time.. literally no guards and no men to protect it because everyone was at the war for robb
Theons actually pretty smart, he was just in an unfortunate situation
sacking Winterfell would’ve been a smart move if he had more support
better title: theon fails at leadership and has the worst idea of all time
iamverynicesir wasn't too bad, just needed some more support
It was a good idea, if they took any other castle Winterfell would send an army to take it back, but if they took Winterfell, everyone would be shocked, and Robb may even march home but be crushed at Moat Cailin, since Yara took it, and he expected reinforcements since he took one of the strongest castles in the North
It was a good idea to take winterfell. Bad idea to try to hold it
No, the worst idea had Robb when he left Winterfell undefended
@@freddy346ifyImagine if he took Winterfell looted and razed it to the ground and then went back to the iron islands with Bran and Rickon as hostages. He'd be the hardest man in the iron islands.
The fact that he's quoting Robb when he threatens the dude makes the scene extra pathetic :(
The fact that he's quoting Robb _betraying_ Robb.
wow i didnt even notice this! it’s basically what robb said to greatjon
What did he say
@@massivemagoo ...he quoted robb, it stands to reason that robb said the same thing
@@ethulwulf5351 yes but, he means which part. Timestamp?
If Theon had just sacked Winterfell, burned it to the ground, and taken Robb's brothers as hostages to be ransomed, and then left as quickly as he came he would've done a lot better. Instead he tried to hold Winterfell for literally no damn reason
Why burn it? Wouldn't do anything good, he should have been never bitten the hand that fed him.
@@akmd114379 to demoralize the northerners and prove how much of a "man" he is to his father/family/people, and gain their respect. Like I'm just looking at this from Theon's perspective.
@@emie9858 but he was always treated equally and as a brother by the Starks and who better than having Ned as his father compared to that fool in the Iron Islands.
@@akmd114379 well duh. I think you misunderstood my intent, I'm just saying, following Theon's logic in the earlier seasons he would've done a lot better probably if he had done this
One could even argue that this decision to hold Winterfell is a proof of him being "Westernized" and not a true Greyjoy anymore
Conquering and holding forts is the Westeros-type of warfare, Ironborns reave, burn everything and leave
If he had done that, I'm sure he would have come home a hero
As a former naval officer, I can attest that this is very accurate sailor behavior.
lmao
It's a lot different nowadays, as an enlisted sailor I can't think of or remember one of the names of any officers I served under during my time in the Navy. I do remember most if not all of the officers expecting respect simply for being an officer. I think Chiefs are respected way more than officers.
@@marioncobretti8210 Never served in the military but would you consider Dagmer an officer, or a Chief?
@@marioncobretti8210
That’s absolutely hilarious.
I don’t remember a single Lieutenant’s name. They were never there long enough to make any effect before they rotated out. Total functionaries.
Iron borns are loyal in the books.
Even they helped theon win winterfell when it was Theon's idea to march winterfell.
On the other hand his men followed him even in the stupidest of decisions and died for him.
Damn... Theon's smirk at 0:11 just made me feel so sad.
I mean, he just looks so content and hopeful at the time. He has no idea the fucking hell his life is going to turn into from that point onward.
+Naughty Snape
Don't you mean "Reek"?
+GAME4WAR no I meant Theon, you cheeky goose. I'll always mean Theon
+Naughty Snape And he deserves all the pain inflicted on him.
+Naughty Snape ramsay won't be happy if he hears you say that
adam49ish Whoa calm down m8 you're getting 2 edgy!!
1:40 Theon trying to copy what Robb did with the Greatjon.
if he really have done what he meant, things would have been so different. You don't threat someone with death. You hang him, and it's over. That's the way to make yourself get respect over here.
Yes but theon doesn't command a quarter of the respect robb does who is a very imposing dude
Threatening with death works fine if people actually believe it. However, he hesitated far too long before he made the threat, when the guy was already walking away. The way to do it is when he gets in your face. But Theon was intimidated and froze up.
What was that Twin said
"Any man that says I am the king is no true king"?
Same thing applies here.
If you have to make threats on what you're going to do to someone instead of just doing it ,
you're just a child with a crown.
He shouldve gotten a kracken.
Euron and Theon actually look like they're family. There's a resemblance.
Podrick and Gentry
Guys not all white dudes look alike that’s racist
throwinpunches you’re an idiot
I thought the same thing before Euron cut his hair
Carlos Smith how😂
Poor Theon. He was just a lad who didn’t know his place in the world back then.
He was a twat. That simple.
He grew up in a family of actual leaders, so naturally when he tries to lead like a leader he gets rejected. He should've just acted like another crew mate, they would've accepted him more like a friend than a captain but he would've had actual respect that way.
If he acted like another crew mate, he would have been treated like "a new guy" and made to scrub the boat's floor everyday. Lol
@@VuTran-mf7kj Then you take that fools head regardless if they like it or not his father is the fecking king and they'll shut up or yea goodbye head lmfao
why would he care for their friendship, anyways. They're just lowborn rapists assigned to him.
As soon as old chap pipes up about “having pillaged for longer than he’s been alive” you say nothing. step down. Approach, gently place a hand in his shoulder, look him in the eye and say “that’s exactly why I need you here” and at the first sign of rejecting break his nose two or three times.
@@NoticerOfficial or give him a good spartan kick off the stairs then yell: discipline! thats what you need. you greatly lack of discipline from mainlanders 😤, i had a chance to revise their army professionalism havent you learn anything from my elder brothers? they all dead.
Man, the fact there's so much substance and emotions behind Theon simply looking at the sea shows what the recent season was lacking.
That evil look on Dagmer's face at the end, I fucking love that actor.
+Hank Fistgun Finchy boy
too bad he get flayed
Good friend of mine, and a bloody good rep - Chris Finch, yeah, IQ of 142, one of the cleverest blokes I know, certainly the cleverest bloke you know, innit?
WTF AHAHAHA^
He's thrown a kettle over a pub, what has Ramsay done?
Theon's too much of a Mainlander. He tries to use the power of his title, rank, position, of exciting speeches and promises of being in the tales. These things motivate the more civilized people on the Mainland of Westeros but on the Iron Islands it's about ability. You can take whatever you want, if you're strong enough. You can be a leader if you've shown that you're capable. But Theon is too disconnected to really know this. He really has a tragic story, it'll be interesting to see what GRRM does with it.
IF we ever see what he does
@@Makalon102 we won't he sidelined the main books for the side books because those books are getting a show adaptation and if the show works then HBO will follow the trend of an cinematic universe and will need Martin on it
Exactly. I literally said something similar in another comment like 3 seconds ago. The Ironborn are very very different from the Northmen. You don't command them through titles.
As someone who grew up working class this is the fastest way to make me hate you. Feeling entitled to authority/respect due to classism/credentialism.
And so probably the most ill-fated voyage in Iron Island history begins.
I like the fact that the Ironborn are cowards despite claiming to not fear anything, and claim they'd rather die than run, or surrender, it makes them more realistic, not many people are willing to just die, when living is possible
“My poor life choices” a novel
By theon of house Greyjoy
🤣🤣 These comments are killing me
Theon tried to copy what Rob said to Lord Umber
Theon just didn't understand that he needed to earn respect. Balon wanted him to work his way up from the bottom, which for as bad of a person as Balon was, that makes sense. He'd been in Winterfell for so long, he'd forgotten what it meant to be an Ironborn. Theon needed to work his way up like Asha (Yara) did
*Theon rolls d20 for leadership.. lands on 1..
More like a 3
Awesome comment
More like minus
Theon is the Yamcha of game of thrones
@Captain J not gaining respect from evil pirates doesnt mean theon was incompetant. he was still a great warrior and archer. had he remained with Robb he would have been shown more respect and even gotten command of a division of men or two.
DBS Yamcha at least makes it home ;)
Yamcha atleast slept with Bulma.... Although unlike Vegeta, HE CAN'T PROVE IT!
I don’t know what this Yamcha is, but it sounds disappointing
Theon wishes he was yamcha.
Theon arc is without a doubt one of the most tragic stories i've ever seen anywhere. He was taken away from his house because of his father, always treated like an outsider by the Starks and northern people, betrayed by his father and his own men, forced to turn against his own true family and capture winterfell, he was tortured and broken into a thousand pieces, his own uncle tried to kill him and in the end he died protecting someone he loved.
Only his sister had some emotional attachment for him
*The Starks didn't treat him like an outsider. He was an outsider but was treated like family.
*If Theon wasn't so damn ignorant and arrogant he probably could of earned his father's respect and the Iron Born.
*Noone forced Theon to take Winterfell, he made that plan for personal glory. (imo, Theon should of kidnapped Bran and Reckon, put winterfell to torch and returned to Pyke)
Theon was young, brash, arrogant and really proud while being blinded by short sight. He deserved everything that happened to him and should of died soon after, not til the second to last episode smh
@@lethargictroll6788so he deserved to get castrated and tortured for months just because hewas an idiot and made mistakes?
@@suli_jj6025 yes
@@lethargictroll6788 compare the stuff he did to the other people in game of thrones, he basically got the worst punishment for stealing candy
So basically everything that happened at Winterfell and to Theon since then is that guy's fault? xD
Oh shit never realised that
In the books, this character is actually Ramsay
It's Theon's fault for being a dick.
@@Noface121 Funny you call him that
In the books, the whole taking of Winterfell by Theon and the Boltons sacking it later is a tad more complex, it's actually Ramsay in disguise who manipulates Theon, but the show gave it all to this guy to simplify the story.
Alfie Allen is probably the best actor on the show, Theon probably has one of the best arcs and interesting characterization in the books, and Show Theon was one of the only characters whose storyline wasn't ruined by Dumb & Dumber.
Laughs in Charles Dance.
Sneers in Diana Rigg.
Cusses in Mark Addy.
And
Frowns in Sean Bean.
Alfie did a great job, but there are a few legends in the cast.
@@ethanv7330Alfie was definitely amongst the top 5
Yeah.... Him and Jorah had a decent ending.
Mark Addy was the best actor in Game Of Thrones, he plays a totally different character in White House Farm and was brilliant in that show.
It's scene's like this that make me really want to see a Theon Greyjoy victory so he can shove it in his family's faces. Yes in the early seasons, Theon comes off as extremely arrogant, selfish, vain, and a bit of a prick, but the other Greyjoy's should seriously cut him some slack and give him a chance. Oh wait, that means being decent human beings for once...
I forgot to mention how stupid Balon is at being a grand strategist. Instead of sending lots of men to reinforce Theon in holding Winterfell, he sends Yara on a fetch quest to bring Theon back to Pyke. After Winterfell and Moat Cailyn, all Balon needed to do would be to take the Dreadfort, Karhold, and White Harbor in order to solidify his control of the North. Then he could begin taking over the rest of the country from there. Oh but wait, that would require brains...
Balon's actually the one strategically in the right here. Winterfell is located inland, while the Iron Islands are a traditional naval power, making Winterfell incredibly difficult to supply, support and reinforce. Dreadfort is also located inland, with a large standing levy, and is protected on two flanks by hills, which would disorganize an Ironborn attack. Of the holds listed, only White Harbour is theoretically feasible, given its proximity to the sea, except for the small problem that it's on the other side of the continent. Theon had the advantage of surprise, but past that point was almost instantly overextended and stranded behind enemy lines. From a strategic perspective, Balon cannot afford to send any large contingent after Theon - and while it is a ruthless decision, abandoning him is a rational choice to a great extent.
@@yopiumtrader222 True, but then why did Balon even bother with the North at all. Why couldn’t he accept a military alliance with Robb and take the Westerland’s together, which would’ve been easier and more profitable for both sides. Balon just doesn’t think things through.
@@Confederate-hj2dc because in his words he doest want to be given a crown he wants to take it like and iron islander would and he thought the Lannisters were unbeatable
@@Confederate-hj2dc this is exactly what I thought.
What the hell is the point in the end, if you know you can't hold anything. What are you even doing.
@@Confederate-hj2dc he wants revenge on the starks for defeating him before
oh my 2:22 I didn't realize the oars were just...pieces of lumber
Well poor oars are
If Theon had just razed Winterfell, and then hauled ass back to Pyke with Bran and Rickon, they’d have valuable hostages and Theon would return a hero. Instead Theon got caught up trying too hard to impress the other Ironborn, and thus, hubris.
Theon: "Winterfell will be ripe for the taking!"
Winterfell: "I'm about to end this man's whole career...."
I am gonna end this man's ability to produce any man
Funny how Theon ends up beating up the bald guy like he stole something later on in the season.
Jamie's description of greyjoys in season 7 is very accurate
what was it
@@Chocolatnave123 “They’re bitter angry little people”
Jamie's description of Theon in season 1 is very accurate.
@@grenadesblows719they are ironborns not Greyjoy’s
I really wish Dagmer didn't die at Winterfell, he was such a cool character.
He didn't, he died at the siege of Moat Calin, look it up
Restore Rhodesia on the show, Ramsay flayed him at winterfell
: - DD your profile picture xD
@Not Alfie the tall guy that theon speaks at the end of the video
@@FatihAegon r/wooosh
What Theon should've done: Loot & Burn Winterfell, take Bran and Rickon back to Pyke and present them to Balon.
The Greyjoys would've won the war and Theon would've been recognized by his father
Bran didnt do shiit vs nk
No. What he should've done is do what he was originally there to do then leave.
Theon fail when that man challenge him saying he could do they captain job himself, he should had cut his head right there without hesitation.
Send a message to everyone else.
Gooby honestly theon was trainer by one of the best master at arms and isn’t skilled in the blade but isn’t a pushover, these idiots look like the only thing they can do is swing that’s it’s tbh
if it weren't for the 36 seconds of conversation at 3:09, then perhaps Theon would never have been such a tortured soul. He never would've weakly captured Winterfell, then never got caught by Ramsey as a result of holding such an unrealistically big stronghold with only a few men, thus, his decline would never have begun, and this moment could have been instead the birth of a potential great ruler.
Would have never got his weenie chopped off
Theon never had makings of a varsity leader
Now go home and get your fucking shinebox
No cock, that was his problem
I don't know, but an HBO Sopranos-Game of Thrones and maybe some Oz hybrid show thrown in there sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Hahahahaha this comment freaked me out a bit, I just finished being obsessed with the sopranos
Rumor had it he killed 16 checkoslovakians 🤣🤣😑
'You're the crew of the sea b****'
Imagine choosing between fighting at the head of the northern army (20,000 strong) with Robb and acting as one of his closest advisors and Robb naming him as his brother.
Or being the captain of one ship called the sea b**** with 20 of the most sorry looking soldiers they had on the iron islands (clearly rejects or they'd be with Yara).
Considering all that and choosing to captain the sea b****.
In the books it was Theon who named the ship and the men under him were quite capable fighters.
If he stayed with Robb he would have died at the red wedding
1:15 If you're being directly challenged like Theon is here, you need to assert dominance and set an example to the rest of your men. Theon let that guy crap all over him during those few seconds. The truth is that they knew Theon wasn't going to do anything. They felt no repercussions from rebelling against his command, they saw right through his demeanor and inexperience, and - ultimately - they felt no respect for him. Here, RR Martin is pointing out the futility of titles; a sheep can call itself a wolf, but that doesn't suddenly make it a wolf. It's not until the sheep rips open its prey and acts like a wolf, and then the other sheep will start to believe it.
True but I think titles can work but only with more civilized groups like someone mentioned. The iron born care little for titles.
"Stop, we yield!"
- Ironmen
0:15 - A Face of Thrones.
A Game of Faces
I hate having to be one of those "I've read the books" arseholes, but the Iron Born seems like so much more of a threat in the books compared to the TV show. Maybe it's because of Euron in the books seems like such a bigger threat, plus he is more of a psychopath.
Everything changed when the chad euron stepped into the iron islands
They attacked the undefended north and captured a lot of it, then completely failed to hold any of it. Euron's invasion of the reach seems to be going considerably better, but even he claims it's only a means to an end and that he doesn't care about holding the shields once the Tyrells are done with Dragonstone. Euron is a threat, the Ironborn themselves not so much.
Isaac Bruner he may spawn a kraken using magic
Assholes for reading the source material that has better, more consistent writing than the show?
@@Ismael-kc3ry there are arseholes who love to bark on about the book in a really patronising way to audiences who only know the show. But ElolmFizzy is not being an arsehole here.
0:16 kinda sad seeing him smile after you're done watching all the shit he has been through season 3 - season 5
kenway y kinda sad after watching him get killed
And then LONG STORY SHORT(hahah) Theon became Reek.
*wiggles sausage around*
@@Vistresian1941 he don't have one no more
"I've been reaving and raping since before you left Balon's balls, Captain."
Surprising knowledge of human anatomy and reproduction for an Ironborn.
00:15 the last time we see Prince Theon genuinely happy
I always wondered, why does noone respect Theon? I mean he always has to fucking threaten people or else they won't obey to him.
+Kaaniification because he has done nothing to actual earn respect, he simply demands it.
Its not like that in the books
Cuz respect is earned, not demanded. He has yet to earn their respect. To them he is soft like the wolves, they will only serve an ironborn. And theon has not fought with them or for them. He has yet to prove threat his is worthy of their respect. Compare theon to yara, note their differences and you'll get it :)
It's really simple Ironborn respect only those who prove themselves. They don't give a fuck about some twat who's ordering them around without proving himself.
+Nixon Perez It is a lot like in the books. Theon went to the iron islands all entitled and demanding obedience and submission because he believes to be the prince.
3:35 there it is. The moment Theon made the stupidest decision of his life, either that or the moment he burnt the letter
To be fair, nothing he could of done, short of beating everyone there to a bloody pulp, would have garnered him any respect.
He’s an outsider, shacking with another house for a decade who he is currently betraying. Looked down upon by his actual family who he still helps. Then gets put to lead a crew that are older, stronger, and more experienced.
Theon had balls when he was with Rob. It was really his friends that gave him the strength
3:43 omg that foreshadowing! UGH GEORGE UGH!
The Ironborn are a meritocracy. If Theon wanted to earn their respect and loyalty his name wasn't enough, he'd have to pay the iron price.
Who thought from thumbnail, before Theon is Lord Varys?
To think, all the crew members got flayed in the end. The boltons are ruthless bastards.
Considering they are ironborn it's well deserved
i liked it when the supposed "good guy" actually put evil notions in theon's head
3:44 the sausage is like foreshadowing
General Taranov is always that nice quiet dude, just serving the union
*Tæranóev
Theon got tooled constantly and he deserved every second of it.
Niko Bellic in Game of Thrones
Theon was a failure right up until the end as it turns out.
Yara:Stop we yield
Theon:Nice that your practising your surrender so early. The ironborn are more pathetic than I thought.
Yara: ...
Bit too wordey / try-hard / smart-arsey, doesn't work on that sort of crowd.
You wouldn't win them over or even challenge them / piss them off with fancy word games. It'd just make a rod for your own back. Stick to the basics like "It's about time." or "So you f***ing should." and play the long game. Notice Yara's was only 3 words.
I just realize that theon was quoting what Robb said to the Greatjon.
2:29 - "Who are you?"
"I'm general Tarakanov" .... :D
While I do feel sorry for Theon for nearly the entire duration of the show, I do also find it somewhat comical how not intimidated by Theon Yara is 😂😂😂 She openly pokes fun at him, but simultaneously does care about him
Oh theon. Truly though, thinking he could go back to his estranged dad and get them to help their conquerors was incredibly thick, even for someone his age. Robb actually letting him go was worse.
Power resides where man believes it resides.
Idiotic statement.
Money gives power. Power is power. Nothing to do with "belief".
@@saurabhkanhere7033it has everything to do with belief, money only has value because we choose to live under a system where we say it has value. If we experienced economic and societal collapse paper money or electronic money would be worthless. Only raw resources like food, water and useful supplies would be worth something. Also in season 5 when the sparrows took over Cersei tried to bribe them to let her go and Olenna tried to bribe the high sparrow to release Margery and Loras and it didn’t work. If money was power then why was Loras, Margery and Cersei arrested when they are some of the richest people in Westeros? Because the sparrows don’t value money. Like op said power resides where men believe it does.
They really made the Ironborn cartoonish in the show, much more nuanced in the books, easily the coolest Kingdom.
Theon has the best character arc in all 8 Seasons. Ah, sorry, 6 Seasons and 2 Spin-Offs.
"6 Seasons and 2 Spin-Offs." Haha 😄 spot on .
0:13, that grin is getting whipped off soon.
his story is not about peer pressure. it's about glory. he obsessed with it, and his egotism is what drove him. he's a great character, but I don't think most people understand him.
Those aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
I love how he tries to emulate the speech that Robb did with the Greatjon but fails
Take me to my sheep.
He'll pay the iron price for his betrayal to Robb
He got far, from sailing around westeros to leading the clean-up of the roof of Chernobyl.
“Where are we headed captain.”
Persuasion 38/100 The stony shores, to raid their villages”.
“And who decides if we’ve done our jobs well?
“There’ll be spoils in it for you and women, if you do your jobs well.”
Theon should have realised from this point onwards that he would never succeed as an Ironborn.
Theon represents a good man, has a heart, and sometimes has courage, but mostly is too scared to take charge. I can relate.
Dagmer seemed like a real nice guy here, didn't he? Too bad it was mainly him that pressured Theon into doing what he did.
He didn't pressure him. He wouldn't have an idea like that in a million years. The only reason Theon did that was because he knew the defences of Winterfell very well and he knew how to breach it.
The correct move to convince these guys and made them obey would ve been to take the head of the bald one.
Don't know how, but i never realized that their was trying to do what Rob did when lord umber threatened to leave with his army.
@M. Doromal theon didnt have a direwolf
2019?
May Theon Rest In Peace
First commander then Captain did theon just demote himself?
I like how there were early theories when S2 was running that people thought Dagmer was Ramsay in disguise, given how Dagmer filled in as the replacement for Ramsay/Reek.
Theon doesn’t even realise they hid the true objective from him lol
What is the true objective?
1:20 after he said all I need is a ship.. Theon was supposed to put a dagger through his throat & lick the blood off then look at the other men and smile lol
"I've been reaving and raping since before you left Balon's balls."
Theons comeback: ''Reaving and raping what, your own cholestrol?''
Haha yup, yours was better. That fat man though.. he makes it completely unbelievable that the Iron Born are as good fighters as we're told.
Theon : I am your captain!
Everyone in the 1 m radius circle : That's a joke to laugh for the day!!
In a way, I think Theon NEEDED to become Reek to redeem himself as a person, to lose the narcissism and cockiness. It was a lesson he had to learn to redeem himself and become a respectable person.
cockiness
i appreciate what u did there
Yes. But there are less brutal ways. He needed proper initiation. The ironborn are tough outlaws, while Theon grew up in an honorable noble family. He wasn't a made man in Winterfell, he needed a little more time before he could make his bones.
No that's just downright abusive. WTF.
If I was to get my dick chopped off to redeem myself, I'd rather not redeem myself at all.
@@Ronin3453 like any man I enjoy my penis. But my penis is not worth my moral compass. In fact the world would be a better place, if people without one didn't have one.
@@ethanv7330 you would do well in a BDSM community.
2:30 what's the name of the actor? I recognise his voice as Cid from Final Fantasy 16
The guy failed at life...
that last shot of the sausage on the plate...
You dont command respect from a bunch of hooligans with mere words; you have to show something, gut the trashtalkers who doesn't respect your command, prove your valor and most importantly give no quarter to thugs like this. These are pirates not soldiers, they got no discipline and only fear and violence keeps them in line.
As much as i hated Theon as a character i did take a great deal of satisfaction in knowing all these got their faces peeled off later on in the show