The Pitfalls of Ignoring EICRs Before Changing Consumer Units
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Electrical Installation Condition Reports (EICRs) provide electricians and customers with greater peace of mind when changing or upgrading a consumer unit. Performing this thorough check-up can help uncover any existing electrical faults, preventing potential problems from sneaking up on you during the transition!
Learn more about consumer unit upgrade best practices in this free training module.
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🕐 TIME STAMPS 🕕
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00:00 Do I need carry out an EICR
00:39 Can make the installation easier
00:50 Condition of existing equipment
01:01 Size of tails and means of earthing
01:16 Earth fault loop impedance
01:43 Check the earthing arrangement
02:03 What does BS7671 say
02:36 Any final circuit defects
03:11 Borrowed neutrals
03:45 Two lighting circuits
04:20 No CPC
04:30 EICR
04:44 Earth leakage check
05:14 What does BS7671 say
05:52 Use RCBOs...
06:09 RCBO consumer unit
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Learn more about consumer unit upgrade best practices in this free training module.
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Enjoy every time I watch.
The best electrical youtube channel for sure.
True experts!!!
Excellent video dude. Very well put together as usual. 👍
Great advice Joe, and well put as usual.
Good Vid. I always put what i have advised a customer in writting that way there is no later arguments.
Exactly!
Always a good idea to carry out an eicr before replacing a consumer unit. I've often found problems with the incoming supply, such as high Ze. I once found an installation relying on the water main for earth, and I had to ask the DNO to fit a clamp to the sheath of the incoming cable to make it a TN-S system.
Great video Joe as always 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
@@efixx I could say something more about this subject but I’m not allowed to have an opinion on here. What I will say though is page 99 in the onsite guide consumer units in Dwellings.
Great video👍
Thanks much John. 😊
I've only just noticed that the production crew hem you into that corner with the desk, lol Do they let you out afterward?
Great advise Joe
Thanks very much Brian. 😃
If a customer was not issued with EIC after having a there consumer unit replaced, as per regulation 644.1 of BS7671. What can they do ? Reason for the installer not issuing an EIC was due to incorrect polarity on sockets outlet, which was highlighted on a recent EICR. Also section 7.3 of the building regulations state that polarity checks should be done as part of pre-work tests.
For the sake of clarification. Does the need to ensure the "existing earthing is adequate" mean that no work can be done if the main earthing conductor from the Head or the Income casing is less than 16mm on a TN supply (as we should assume that even a TNS supply is in fact a TNCS due to repairs to the DNO supply cables)
Or is the requirement only to have a suitably low enough Ze to allow disconnect times as per the regs. in case of an earth fault of negligible resistance on any circuit ?
🤣 now now... Bs7671 only gets excited about pme in special locations... Stop putting two and two together... 🤣 Essentially its your call as the designer isn't it. But if you doubt the validity of calling it tns and doing an adiabatic then yes you'd have to upgrade to selection requirements. 😉
Was due to do a board change from the old 3036 fuses to full RCBO board. Did an EICR and found a neutral to earth dead short on the sockets, everything unplugged and disconnected in board so it was not via the earthing arrangement. Customer didn't want floor boards pulling up or anything else to fix it. Board change cancelled.
Good comment @mainly electrical youtube 👍⚡️
100% , stripping out an old board and thinking a New RCBO CB will work fine .....Thats going to be hard work !
been mulling over getting my CU changed for some time as my home only has a 4-way wired fuse jobby (built in 1963) plus a separate isolator for the shower. But choosing a contractor who's up to speed and getting an idea of what to have installed and current pricing has been a bit of a stumbling block for my going ahead with it.
1.5 days labour. 450 quid. Materials 200-300 depending on spec. Overall £600-£800 assuming nothing else required to repair or upgrade. But if nothings been done since it was built you probably need bonding installing and some repair etc. I'm sure there are plenty of sparks in your area who'd be more than capable and willing to give you a quote.
@@travoltasbiplane1551 it'll defo need bonding, but i can probably lay in those cables myself ready for the contractor to connect up.
@@kathrynwhitby9799 that's between you and the electrician. Personally though I'd discuss it with them first and wouldn't lead with it!
@@travoltasbiplane1551 good advice. thanks.
@@kathrynwhitby9799 Have a look for wooden back boxes and VIR cable. If you can lift up a floor board or 2 have a look for round junction boxes as well.
With energy costs rising significantly, are the losses from using all RCBO boards an issue?
That is a great point Chris , @mainly electrical youtube 👍⚡️
Whether you eicr or not. At least 1/2 a day of pretesting everytime. More depending on scale. Avoids an awkward chat mid board change.
Wise words. 😊
From the client's point of view surely it's better for him to obtain an EICR first that he can show to other electricians when getting quotes for the job.
Simplify things 1 bonding gas , water bond visibly present RCD type A covering all circuits , polarity correct. Those are the basic common sense checks I do before any additional work. The obsession with trying to fathom out and interpret BS7671 can sometimes be distracting 👍
I do earth leakage checks on each circuit now before every board change and that’s very useful . Several jobs previous sub boards have been fitted by unqualified builders & kitchen fitters so always expects problems when they’ve completed work the shouldn’t have touched 🥶
i've got the dno coming out to sort my tails out to the meter as, as i mentioned before, they are thinner than the ones that come out of the meter to the cu
they should have dealt with them when they did the smart meter instalation, but no, they just removed the switch, gits
If you incoming main fuse in the cutout is 80amps or less. The 16mm pre meter tails before the 25mm ones outgoing are perfectly fine. If the fuse is 100amps and you intend on solar or ev then an upgrade may be necessary.
@@rayc1503 I've got 100 amps
But have been advised that we should do all the electrical work first and then get them to do the tails at the end because if they turn up and things aren't right, we have to pay full price for a visit rather than free to make sure things are right
@@therealdojj Just a suggestion ask your suppliers to install a incoming mains isolator, if you're having the meter tails upgraged. It will make the electricians job much easier. Sometimes main cutout fuses are labelled incorrectly. There could potentially be a lower rated fuse in there. The supply cables pre main fuse may not be large enough to take a 100 amp load. You would have to discuss this with your supplier.
I have always refused to do a CU change unless I do a EICR first. I explain to the customer that although things may work, they may not be working safely and I won’t put my name to any certificate for a CU change unless I am fully confident that the whole installation is compliant. The only way I can do that is by doing a EICR.
Good comment Carl , @mainly electrical youtube 👌👍⚡️
There’s no real alternative but to carry out a EICR before a consumer board change. How could you successfully fill out a electrical installation Certificate if there are various non compliant issues with the current installation. Even newer installations should really be fully tested if a board change is requested. It’s a no brainer and the customer should be told this right at the start of the initial inquiry.
Make it up in the van because the rcd held so it must be fine? Seems to be the OP.
The installation doesn’t have to comply with current regulations, C3’s are fine and wouldn’t prevent a replacement consumer unit being fitted. Any C1’s, C2’s or FI’s would have to be resolved before the replacement consumer unit is energised.
You need the test results one way or another, so I totally agree. Plus, avoiding what Joe said about sticky client situations is golden. You could actually get paid for repair work rather than be held accountable for it post board change. So much sense with this approach.
You don’t need to do an upfront EICR but actually, yes you do. Any sparks that doesn’t know this shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a CU or DB…Safe equipotential zone etc etc etc…
Here's a question about consumer units.
I'm changing our house over to run primarily on electricity, as I can see the green agenda being the new COVID God. I have installed an 'off-grid' type installation which will only use the grid to top up the installation primarily between November and February. This installation includes an 8.4kW PV array, three 5kW inverters running in parallel and a 92kW lead-acid battery bank, consisting of thirty-two VARTA LFD 230Ah batteries. These are configured in series parallel (four batteries in series, giving eight parallel banks of48V which serves the three Iconica inverters). The whole lot is adequately fused and cabled, but I haven't replace my MK consumer unit which is 23 years old. The consumer unit has no surge protection or RCD capability, but has MCBs on each circuit. I have no intention of 'exporting' my electricity at the moment (why would I invest what I already have, to be paid a couple of pence per kWh?)
I have also purchased a 12 year old Nissan Leaf which only has 50% battery life left, but is still good for local journeys and has a usable battery of about 12kW (15kW at the most). I have a 'granny charger' supplied with the car which gives 15A @ 230V (3kW) so is appropriate for the battery size. It comes with a 16A IP44 connector and I've ordered a 16A backplate, a 20A Double Pole 2 Module C Curve 10kA 30mA Type A Mini RCBO and I'm thinking of using 16mm2 cable from the Henley blocks of the inverter outs to wire this.
Sorry for the full description, but as you can see this is not what people normally do when they buy a new electric car which has a 50kW (or larger) battery and then needs a £1000 Zappi or similar.
As far as the heating is concerned, I am thinking of a heat pump to add on to my wet central heating, but have not yet decided whether we could get away with some strategically sited ASHPs instead. Anyway, the question I have is this:
As I replace our gas cooker range with a plethora of air fryers, induction hobs and electric ovens, it soon becomes apparent that if I had the 1.4kW air fryer going, the 2.4kW electric oven and the 1.8kW induction hob all at the same time, that would be almost 6kW of cooking. 6000/230= 26A, which could be handled by a 32A ring main, but isn't ideal as a 24/7, 365 days a year solution. A better idea would be to have a larger rated 'ring main' just for the kitchen, possibly rated for 50 or 60A. Is this kind of solution being built into new housing these days or is it still a case of just supplying a new-build kitchen with a standard 40A / 60A cooker point in one location?
Since the standard plug socket isn't designed to carry 3kW for more than say half an hour without getting hot, what is the best solution for the type of 60L standalone electric ovens that are being marketed as a replacement for gas appliances?
If I change the consumer unit for an all-singing, all-dancing individual RCBO type, will Curve B type modules suffice this power draw appliances without nuisance tripping?
Any appliance over 2kw should not be on the ring main , oven and hob should have dedicated circuits .
Why 16mm for a 16 amp supply ?
16 amp plug should not be on a 20 amp protective device .
16A commando,style connectormdoes not comply with 7671 for domestic installations
@@posei3960 Why?
just give the client a heads up disclaimer that you are not responsible for any existing faults
Top tip! 👍
Thing is are you gonna reconnect it of it's dangerous. 🤣
True, but how would *you know* it was/wasn't an existing fault? Customers are as slippery as eels sometimes.
Rcbo consumer units are very costly . Nothing wrong with a high integrity board , couple of rcbos plus split load RCDs in my opinion
Lewden rcbos are about £12
I just looked one up on CEF.....a 14-way with 10 RCBOs is £195 including VAT. Hardly expensive.
@@fredflintstone1428 what make ? Spd included ?
split load board.. ??Ughhhhh
Cheap sparks put in split loads on a board change unless its a rewire I can understand putting a split load in to keep costs down RCBOS just make life easier though if there is a fault on a circuit it does not affect any other
Split load boards might soon be non compliant? Great. Why didn't they think of this 10 years ago.
10 years ago it was obvious that full RCBO board was the better option and in future would be the standard, but it was cost prohibitive so not practicable to make it the standard.
@@sm1thers It's cost prohibitive now
Oh yes test first time every time Fell foul of that once never again as you say.
Seen soooo many sparks change boards without a single test...... utterly foolish...
sir please give the reply of my email for business cooperation