EARTHING made SIMPLE with the INDRA SMART PRO EV CHARGER
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- Опубликовано: 17 янв 2022
- Selecting the correct earthing and fault protection arrangements are one of the more demanding requirements of BS7671 relating to EV charger installations. In this second part electric vehicle charger installation series, we explore the problems of earthing, PEN faults in PME networks and how the Indra Smart Pro can help you protect against them.
EV Charger Installation - Part One.
• HOW TO INSTALL AN EV C...
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📹 Presented by
Joe Robinson - Technical Editor
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Наука
NEW TO THE SERIES? - PART ONE IS HERE
ruclips.net/video/QCmZKEJNa5E/видео.html
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One of best videos iv seen , these boys go into HUGE detail which is very helpful to a lot of sparkies , I watch other channels like artisain and bundy which are great, but for me this is brilliant for the underline detail required to meet regs and amendments you might otherwise not know about. Top top job , pleased keep this ev content coming 👍
I like the intro. I have to say though - if it shouldn’t be undertaken by amateurs - why are you guys doing it?! 😂 Sorry, I couldn’t resist that! 😂
😂 Savage! 👍
Thank you. Great explanation. 🙏
Great video, the presentation is excellent lots of information to diggest. ⚡⚡⚡👍
In the near future, I will announce the final solution to the PEN problem. I hope for a means of communication with you, and thanks for the excellent explanation
Brilliant video Joe, makes sense to use the PV cable, pretty rigid and UV resistant.. although rods in London can be a bloody nightmare
Thanks very much matey. EV charge points are a knotty problem! 😊
Great video as usually exspected from you guys. This is a smart charger and well advanced for differant sanorios. Very impressed.
Thanks very much! 😊
Thanks Joe great presentation 👌🏻👍🏻
You're welcome, thanks for saying so. 😊
Thanks...great post.
Nice one joe👍👍 very well explained to a non sparks like myself.. but will be one day when i retrain 😂🙌🏻 love your videos mate 🙌🏻🙌🏻
Thanks very much, keep us posted on your progress matey. 👍
Nice information about Ev charger
Thanks very much. 😊
Looks like a very nicely designed PCB from Indra, I can spy a Seeed Studio BeagleBone green in there for connectivity, not really sure why these EV chargers need so much computing power but it's nice to see the whole thing running from eMMC and not an SD-card that will inevitably give up. I see some good details on the PCB that shows it was designed by someone experienced. The XP Power supply module and Panasonic relays will probably last forever and the lovely lever-arm mains connectors ensure good termination for supply. I do like the IDC push-down block for use with SWA cable with twisted-pair - that's neat - presuming its for remote CTs, do they include a punch-down tool?
Negatives are I'd like to see these boards conformally coated (treated to make them resistant to corrosion from moisture) I also think you should have mechanical protection of the PCB, a slip and you knock some components off of the PCB with your 6mm2 cable - the average spark is used to wrenching things in!
Great comment, I'm sure Indra will be happy with your balanced and well thought out feedback. Thanks very much! 😊
Regarding simultaneous contact, say for example the EV charger is mounted on a metal post or within arms reach of an outside post light, assuming these have been earthed via a PME system would simultaneous contact be an issue here? As both are likely in contact with the physical ground much like a tap off of an underground copper pipe would be.
Your videos are very well done and provide clear instruction, just a question on indent IV, in one of your other videos there was a test rig set up and simulated a pen fault across a 3 phase supply, on the test 1 one of the phases went over 253V but the other 2 phases stayed between 207V and 253V, the voltage between the CPC and the ground was above 70 and didn't disconnect the supply, is that why this charger disconnects at 30V?
Yes I believe it is something along those lines.
Thanks efixx
You're welcome. 😊
As I don’t like the idea of electric vehicles and EV chargers, I found this video very interesting and informative, but I think there is something amiss , ? Isn’t a car insulated from the earth by its rubber tiers ? And we are insulated simply by wearing shoos or boots ? So if a car’s bodywork did become live we unlikely to get a shock ? Isn’t this just the IET setting rules to prevent a problem that doesn’t exist? Or have I missed something?
Fantastic video as always Joe
👍👍👍❤️
Yes you can insulate yourself by wearing boots. But these regs are designed to prevent that 1 in a million chance of being electrocuted.
To some extent yes but it only takes a tiny amount of current to kill and there may be enough of a connection to earth to push that tiny amount through you.
Very informative, now do you have a n condensed version that is easily memorable. I will probably forget what you just said after the video ends. How do you remember all of these regs, are you reading from a script or something?
😂 I can't give away all my secrets... but yes!
I've done a good few indras now I really like them some other engineers not so much lol
They're definitely the most adaptable charger out there I think.
Is there a training module on your site that goes along with this? I can only find the one that goes with part 1.
Try here 👉www.efixx.co.uk/Know%20How/ev-charger-installation
Would there be any downside to using a plastic pipe to an outside tap as good practice in any case?
No I don't think so, I've known sparks swap a bit of copper pipe out for plastic in similar circumstances.
@@efixx Isnt water in a plastic pipe conductive, I know it has a lower conductivity but surely just a small plastic section electricity could jump between the pipework via the water... Not sure what the resistance would be, think John Ward did a video on it..
14:20 If the reference earth resistance can be as high as 600 ohms, why would the cable need to be anything like as big as 4mm^2 ?
Not too sure to be honest it's what Indra recommend.
@@efixx We recommend 4mm solar PV1 simply as this is more rigid, easier to keep straight when direct clipped, readily available, double insulated and fits comfortably in our lever terminals.
Mechanical reasons. In Germany the VDE tells us:
- 2.5mm² copper if the conductor is mechanically protected.
-4mm² copper if mechanically unprotected
-16mm² aluminium, no matter how the conductor is protected.
Thanks for swooping in Mike, much appreciated. 👍
Only 1 Phase in UK?
Great vid as usual Joe! I think I've missed a point somewhere though and tying myself in circles......... In a fault condition, 50 ma for 50ms is enough to kill....... how does that tie in with the device having 5s to disconnect?
Secondly, where do you stand with an aftermarket 13A extension lead to Type 2 solution? Or even a 32A commando socket for that matter.....
It is not likely that the fault happens just the moment you touch the car.
I too would like to understand the mitigation for using a standard 13A socket to charge a car in a PEN fault scenario.
Great educational video as usual but maybe EV cars should be now fitted with metal wheels 🤔
😂 Not a bad shout that.
Appoligies and just asking a question outside this topic but possibly same dangerous situation. Please correct me BS7671 does not permit export of PME to mobile caravans. Yet millions of owners use there tn c s system home supply's using there 25m cables to run caravans or motor homes at home. Caravan on rubber, caravan is metal, caravan has solar pannels, caravan has chargers. OK agree not huge chargers. Campsites have to follow rules which accommodated hookup points with earth Rods and certification. Question is would it be safer to use an pen fault devise made and sold for ev charge points on caravan hook ups. Looking on searches many issues with electric shocks from caravans connected to home supplies.
Yes it is a bit dangerous having a caravan plugged into the electrical supply on someone's driveway if they've got a PME arrangement. Gordon would probably suggest the simplest solution is to ban caravans!
Juicy asf
Indent 4 - 253V rms seems a bit stupid, as I believe thats the threshold where G98/99 solar inverters will start curtailing, set it a few volts higher and you wouldn't have compatibility issues.
Hm, interesting point. Maybe it'll be changed in Amendment 2. Doubt it though.
They've gone for 230 +/- 10% probably because that's the tolerance allowed for a standard domestic power supply, but agreed a bit of headroom would be nice, especially given EV owners are probably statistically more likely to have solar PV as well
I’ve swapped lights to double insulated to meet that requirement. Not as easy as it sounds. Not many double insulated lights out there, that I could find that looked reasonable.
Good on you for being thorough. It's easily overlooked. 👍
@@efixx Also applies to shared drives, so you might have to change the neighbours outside light and water pipe. I can't quite remember the distance but I think its around 8m to allow for the charger cable
Hi again, I would appreciate your help in understanding the dangers of simultaneous contact re car chargers. I'm sure I am missing something, but the way I see it is : If all extraneous and exposed conductive parts (such as Tap and Car) are connected through the MET, then any PD should approximate to zero in normal conditions. Even in "Standard" earth fault conditions in the house where ADS has failed, any voltage on the water pipes will be reflected on the EV CPC. In the case of an open PEN all conductors in the EV circuit will be disconnected, so it will be as if the charger never existed. The dangerous set up seems to be where the EV circuit is separated from the supply earth and given an independent TT earth. In this case an open PEN would make the tap "hot" and the car would provide a much lower (close to zero) potential - Hand to hand across the body.
Also could I recommend to trainees that they view John Wards excellent videos on the influence of A) cable repairs by the DNO, to the TNS vs TNCS status and B) the inadvertent importing of potential on your utilities from neighbours who may have a different earthing system . eg your property is a TT, but a neighbour is on a PME supply.
So to throw a spanner into your MET thinking... what about a lamppost at the end of the driveway?
@@mikeschooling8346 I confess; lamp posts are outside my comfort zone. But I'm keen to learn. I'm not sure where your question is leading. My limited experience with metallic lamp posts has been on Landlord Lighting with seemingly TNS supply. The CPC connected the posts to the MET. But if we are talking about Non-private lamp posts, who could even be sure which transformer the supply comes from. Plz expand on your scenario, especially how it relates to simultaneous contact
Thinking about your question, I assume you mean - what if the car and lamp post are within touching distance. I assume all street lighting is on looped SWA 2 core and therefore always TNS. Hence the post is a constant earth potential. Unless I've missed something (quite likely) after the first 5 secs a PME supplied charger will be safe after an open PEN. Where as a TT supplied car charger will be safe after 40ms after an earth fault. On the other hand if the lamp post becomes live I would hope the circuit is covered by ADS even if not an RCD. What does your experience say about the frequency of lamp posts remaining live - and a danger to every passer by!
Thank you
This content is extremely juicy
Never been described as juicy before, thanks very much! 😂
@@efixx take it as a compliment if you wish haha
The information in these videos are top notch and for that I thank you and the team for producing such juicy content
😂 We'll aim to keep it juicy! Thanks for commenting. 👍
every house should have an earth electrode installed really.
Really???
@all systems down again yeah, in case disconnection of PEn nutral or earth, specially the one that feed more than one property
Given that Amendment 2 of the Reg’s deleted 722.411.4.1 (i) some editing at around 9 minutes would avoid misleading trainees.
I bow to what I'm sure is your far greater technical knowledge. But I do feel some of your wording and choice of image, with reference to explaining PME systems, must be confusing to training electricians. In my experience, a dedicated PME supply simply has one Line and one Neutral conductor in the supply cable and a Neutral block is provided by the DNO for an Earth to be tapped off if appropriate. You make it sound as if there are extra strands in the Neutral conductor which are physically separated at the head. Also your choice of photo would support that idea. However the photo actually shows the Line and Neutral conductors being separated and passing to the relevant sections of the head. To a trainee the photo could actually be confused with a TNS supply, since it is unusual to see Line and Neutral separated outside of the PME head. I know I'm being picky, but I remember how easy it could be to be confused by imprecise wording and imagery. Keep up the good work.
That's interesting in my experience a concentric cable that looks exactly like the one in the video, which is why we explained it that way. We've taught quite a few lads who've worked for DNOs and this is the way they've shown it being done, even donating samples of cables. Interesting how different experiences shape different outlooks isn't it? Thanks for commenting, much appreciated. 😊
@@efixx Thanks for your reply. So long as your students don't have a problem with it, then it's probably just the way my brain works (or doesn't 😀) What I meant was that your words were about the splitting of Earth and Neutral, while the image showed a concentric cable being split into Line and Neutral. That's what I think I would have found confusing as a student.
Oh OK, thanks for the feedback. 👍
@@efixx and lets not forget that a TNCS earthing system is not to be seen as a PME system UNLESS there is a sticker stating that it is a PME. Unlike college, which always told me that a TNCS was the same as a PME system, the DNO says it's not. Only regard a PME system if there is a sticker saying it is a PME.
i still dont get why the body of a car would be grounded to a 240v charging system. aint these 2 systems completely separated and therefor the body of the car will never become live
Nope. The body of the car is connected to the earthing arrangement of the house unless you use an isolating transformer in the property.
'not DIY video' ha ha ha
Can someone please explain to a layman why an EV needs special earthing arrangements and, say, a high-power domestic, portable heater not? (Please don’t bother to reply if you are going to sound like a moron).
Is the heater for use outside? 🤔
@@efixx No, that would be silly… But do people instal EVSEs in garages? And it’s not like other devices that are mains powered are never used outside without the need for an earthing rod….
It was a genuine question, I was trying to understand what you were asking. People do install charge points on garages but far more common outside. It's the fact that you've got a huge lump of metal outside connected to the earthing arrangements for the house. If there's a certain type of fault outside the metal work of the car goes live and if you're touching it and making a connection to the general mass of earth you could receive a lethal shock.