This season felt like a YA true crime novel you’d see for discount sale at an airport kiosk. I thought I was going crazy when I started seeing all of the positive reviews come in.
THERE IT IS. I was trying to figure out how this was weird compared to the other seasons, and THAT’S it. It feels like a YA version of previous seasons of True Detective. It’s following some of the same themes and concepts as previous seasons, but just kinda dumbed down. And again, a show that makes all indigenous people magic and mystical is pretty played out
You haven't been paying attention. Have you not noticed every popular film/TV franchise rebooted with female leads, preachy messaging and lackluster writing? Its critic proof cuz critics are scared of being labeled a sexist/racist/misogynist
I, too, thought I was losing my mind, although I was aware of the culture war syndrome. Even so, for The Guardian to call it a masterpiece giving five stars (that rarely happens), I started thinking I was living in some Stalinist reality/unreality. Thank God for Reddit, where I found some similar views to my own. It was garbage, barely one star.
Two cops in the middle of a storm in a not well understood area of ice decide to both drop down a random hole they made. How were they ever going to get back up that same hole. No reasonable persons would do that never mind two police officers. Just that one things among all the others tells you just how bad this was. A shocking mess of a story.
Not to mention, they start traversing the tunnels without leaving any path markers to follow for their return to the surface. (I guess they're too smart to get lost 🤣) After what seems like 100 feet, maybe more but not that far, they intersect with the lab that's right beneath the tsalal facility... Wtf? Did they enter the tunnels right next to tsalal, but couldn't see it because of the blizzard? It seems like they made a hole to enter the tunnels way out in the middle of nowhere, but if it was supposed to be next to tsalal, why would they need that junkie guy to guide them!? So fucking dumb Also, I don't think the acting was that good from anybody. Obviously Jody foster is a great actress, but this wasn't anywhere close to a career defining performance. If anything, it was ok whereas Matt M's portrayal of Rust Cohle in season 1 is absolutely one of his career defining moments. It's the role that proved him to be a heavy hitting performer.
Jodie Foster's character was originally so desperate for a guide to the ice caves, that she swiped heroin from the evidence locker and snuck that fellow out of rehab. But he gets shot in the head and she's all "it'll be fine" and decides to go to the ice caves anyway without a guide?!? Ugh. This was such a bummer because I feel like it could have been awesome.
Hate hate hated season four and wish I had that machine from "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" to remove the memory from my brain. Let's not speak of this mess again.
I kinda think that it’s Clark BS-ing them. He lied about touching Annie but he might be lying to himself as well. The whole vibe id her sustaining so many wounds and still being alive was off.
That's how I feel. The season started off intriguing and I was kind of with it for the first four episodes...but then episodes 5 and 6 fell off a cliff.
@@omaridaniels8427, I experienced the same! I loved the initial set-up, and I really liked the two leading actresses very much. But after episode 4 it became obvious that the show couldn't stick the landing. There were too many characters and plotlines and open questions. It was absolutely impossible to end the show in a satisfying way. And in the end I had the feeling that the show-runners didn't even try to deliver any answers. It's very unfortunate that these shows have become battlefields for the cultural war which is raging for a while now 😞 I have been attacked because I liked the show initially, and I had high hopes that it might be special. And now I will probably get a lot of flak because I disliked the final 😉
It’s unbelievable that Pete went through the most traumatic shit possible as a side story in the finale disposing of his father’s body after he shot him in the head totally alone aaaaaaand…. Danvers and Navarro don’t check in on him at all. Just a quick moment of “Huh, Pete’s gonna be messed up, isn’t he?” “Lol yeah, probably” between munching Funyuns. The last we see of Pete is him bringing Danvers coffee while she smugly talks about how Hank’s body hasn’t been found. What the fuck?! One of the few endearing parts of the show is the Pete-Danvers motherly relationship but she apparently could give a shit about him
Peter should've turned in his badge and walked away from everything. He was the only one doing any actual detective work and he barely got as much as a 'Thank you.'
What didn't make the most sense to me was how Annie Kowtok understood the lab contained work that needed to be destroyed, but ok she tried to bust up all the equipment and materials in the hidden lab. But, ok she did. So I understand one of the scientists freaking out and stabbing her with a drill bit at hand. I can see the mass hysteria getting the rest of the group to pile on. What makes even less sense is how when the cleaning woman discovers the same lab after accidentally spilling her bucket of water, goes down and some random object that happens to be a drill bit is immediately recognizable as the potential murder weapon. I mean did she end her career as a forensic pathologist to take up house cleaning?
Why did the scientists keep photos of her down on the mine? This was 6 years after her murder. Last thing you would want around is photos of the woman you murdered. Clark was so distraught and haunted by her murder , yet they decided to keep these photos ? So dumb.
I would think the police wouldn’t release every detail of the case and the star shaped wounds would be one of those details. Lopez apparently said the cleaning women somehow found Annie’s body before the cops, but would they have looked so closely at her in a dark shipping container to realize that the tiny stab wounds were star shaped? Even if they did, finding a hatch, finding a star shaped tool, and assuming it’s the murder weapon on a 6 year old case is a giant leap. And if you used that tool to kill someone, you’d probably destroy that evidence and not leave it at the scene of the crime. The plot holes are never ending
Another thing I realized reading this: how many townsfolk even saw the star-shaped stab wounds on her flesh? Unless I missed it, how would the cleaning lady have even known she had star-shaped stab wounds? I could see maybe if a cop connecting the dots, but the cleaning lady (and then assuming they all did it)?
@@Tender.fiddles Wait, I'm confused. If the women who were doing the cleaning at Tsalal Station found Annie's body before the cops, why did they wait like 6 years to exact their revenge? The tool the lady found was probably a drill bit, not the drill bit, but to a layperson, a wound from a bullet or a star-shaped tool might look very similar, so that leap is just not working for me.
Don't you love how that older lady ( Travis' lover ) doesn't get dragged in for questioning? She just wanders out on the ice and stumbles across the frozen scientists and tells the "detectives" that a dead person had shown her their location. The writers were so lazy they forget to draw the spiral tattoo on Clark in the final confrontation.
It's just 'cause Ennis is, like, WEIRD, maaan. You don't understand. Things are different up in good ol' Ennistown. An octuple-murder corpsicle is just another day, nothing to get worked up over.
Thank you so much for your P.S. It is so disgusting to me that Navarro apparently decided that the best thing she could do after solving these two mysteries was to just end her life...for what, because she was called to it?? Her poor decisions as a cop aside, she was never portrayed as someone with mental illness like her mother and sister; she had a career, love in her life and her community, so why was it acceptable for her to kill herself? Wouldn't it have been much more noble for her to use her power to help her people and live a good life? She ended up being like the magical Negro character whose sole purpose is to help those around them achieve something, only to then just fade away into nothing. What an infuriating end to a terrible season of television.
Why would the scientists have kept photos of Annie in the cave for 6 years after she was murdered? This would be a constant reminder of the worst day of their life. And with Clark being constantly haunted since that event, don’t you think the other men would have had a chat and said we need to get rid of everything that could remind him of her ? Also, the 2 biggest things that linked the 2 murders were the tongue and the power being cut. It turns out that neither had anything to do w the case. Such dumb writing!!!
Yep, I've already been seeing it everywhere online. If you don't like the show, it's because you're a toxic male and hate women. One of my favorites I saw today was a guy saying that TD S4 backlash all stems from "insecure males (probably white) who are intimidated by strong but flawed female leads." Yep. It has to be that. Couldn't be because of the infinite plot holes, high school-level script, corny & cliched jump scares, and poor dialogue.
Poor writing, convoluted so-called plotlines, contrived dialogue, horrible music choices and mixing. . Add on top of that the fact that they shoehorned this into the True Detective franchise, which placed upon this season the need to perform. For all these reasons, I hated this show. It is NOT True Detective and is not good at all. I think the one thing that Night Country HAS succeeded in doing is in permanently killing off the True Detective franchise.
This season is better than season 2&3. I gave up on 2 and 3 is watchable but boring. The conclusion nicely wrapped up the mystery after meandering for 5 episodes on family drama.
Agree totally. The setting, a mass weird murder of some isolated scientists some decent actors and a director who was supposed to excel at horror should have at least produced some scares and genuine creeps. But no we got nothing even of that and just one complete pile of nonsense.
If the pollution from the mine allowed the scientists to access the ice samples, wouldn’t the pollution contaminate the ice samples, rendering them useless?
This was exactly my thought. They claim that this pollution is so toxic that it alters your chromosomes, yet these researchers were using it to melt the permafrost to extract DNA from prehistoric microbes???
Only good from that scenario would be to reinforce the need to protect future core drilling to protect the samples. Instead of unlimited time for drilling, the workers would know that they only have hours? to drill and then wrap before "pollution" taints the samples.
I've watched a lot of bad shows but this one felt like a total fraud. It's like if they took Sharknado, shoehorned in a bunch of "we're going to need a bigger boat" and "bow-legged ladies" quotes and called it Jaws.
Jawnado - a psychic tornado brings back the 4 dead sharks ... And the Brody family ... For one last confrontation Jawnado 2 - another psychic tornado brings back the 4 sharks and the Brody to gang up against a bigger threat ... Climate change
It's incredible how this season has made me understand both the experience of being gaslit (by the majority of media giving glowing reviews), and many of the grievances of the anti-woke crowd, despite being a leftist who in principle supports "the message" being pushed. It's almost like Issa Lopez is an undercover right winger who set out to ignite a internecine culture war to demonstrate the absurdity of identity politics to the left, but her parody was too on the nose and people just ate it up as sincere. Sadly I don't actually think that's the case, reality is just more absurd than art.
I think I’ve mentioned it in your comments before, but for many years, I’ve been in a Facebook group dedicated to True Detective. The amount of drama in the group right now is insane. People who’ve been long-standing members are getting kicked out by the Admins on a daily basis. The phenomenon you’re talking about is so prevalent, people just pontificating with an unearned sense of moral superiority. Increasingly, it’s not even that you have to have enjoyed the show, you need to think it is the best program to ever grace our television screens… I’m guilty of wrong think, I’m sure I’ll get booted from the group sooner or later.
Should have just been called Night Country instead of True detective. There is no detective work being done besides Prior looking up stuff on the internet. Disappointing considering where true detective started.
Yes I am a flaming leftist myself, all for indigenous representation and dismantling the patriarchy too, but a show like night country fails on so many levels to tell a story or stories that are in any way helpful or enlightening or insightful or inspiring to any possible movement of civil rights. The story here was incoherent, nonsensical, abhorrent and the two lead women detectives are about as testosterone driven as any dude cop. They do terrible things, everyone, and somehow base revenge is just the way to be. Horrible. Everything went to hell in a handbasket right when Hank shoots the addict and his son kills him. It was all nonsense right from that scene. The finale was excruciating and ridiculous, I was cringing the whole time, it was torture. Indigenous peoples' stories and those of tribes of Alaska and Canada need to be told; the missing indigenous women real life crises also - but nothing of any value or substance came from this show, tragically; it amounts to a grand insult to human beings in general, an insult to intelligence. So poorly written.
This show has presented an extremely sad state of media discourse when you can't simply say you think a show is mediocre without accusations being thrown at you. True equality is realizing that a person of any gender, race, sexual orientation, or religion is just as capable of excellence or mediocrity compared to anyone else. Most people either celebrate or are indifferent to this type of thing and focus on the content of the show itself. Infantilizing women and elevating their work artificially due to factors outside of the quality of the show such as their gender/ethnicity doesn't help anyone. There have been not only countless celebrated shows featuring/made by women at this point, Fleabag winning an Emmy featuring a promiscuous character is a good example, but also so many highly celebrated detective shows with female detectives, Mare of Easttown on the same network being one example. The narrative that all of a sudden, in 2024, people have a problem with that is ludicrous. It reminds me of when Lisa joins the football team in the Simpsons and says "That's right! A girl wants to play football, how about that!" and there are already a couple of girls on the team. It's kind of arbitrary/not a big deal at this point to most people, I feel. Also the fact that people created a positive echo chamber subreddit to counteract a negative echo chamber subreddit is just peak reddit. I was permanently banned from the TDNightCountry sub for backing up a Mod who suggested a rule to try and minimize shit-talking about the main sub. There are posts on there like "I saw a guy on the main sub say he liked episode 5 despite not liking the earlier episodes, FUCK YOU to him" and it got massively upvoted. People cannot say criticisms of the show on that sub in any way without ending it with "but I swear I really like the show overall!" for fear of being massively downvoted. This show's discourse depresses me honestly.
Beyond the stupid gender controversy that affects almost every modern movie scenario (including of course night country), the biggest problem of true detective season 4 is that is it hardly a detective story. It's more like a true soap opera where the characters are aware and care about the main story sporadically. The progress of the story happens randomly and predictably linear. Let's hope the next writer will take in to account that fans of true detective would want to watch a DETECTIVE story. That is: with mystery, hidden messages, problem solving and exploration.
Danvers tells Pete to do something. She and Navarro go off and deal with their personal problems and may e interview someone for the rest of the episode. Start of next episode Pete tells Danvers the result of his investigation which leads her to tell him to something. Repeat. Pete did most of the investigation offscreen.
As you your self correctly suggested "Night Country" was largely a lift of "Wind River" highly adapted to fit into the "True Detective", backstory! I will also add much of the horror and special effects that was presented in the early episodes was a direct lift from John Carpenters ""The Thing""! In my opinion there are multiple problems in the presentation. 1. There should have been a focus on one of murder at a time. The murders at the laboratory could have lead to the Anne K. Murder in final resolution. Rather than attempt to take on both cases simultaneously! 2. Because the plot already existed the production team and writers attempted to shoe horn a fit by creating to many "Mccoffins" and tie in that only added to the confusion. 3. While Jodie Fosters acting, most of the rest of the cast were reacting. Foster was on an entirely different level from the rest of the cast. 4. Handling some of the social commentary was manipulative if not inept! There have been many films that have tackled these subjects with out the audience feeling used ! And yes I agree there are many issues such as, "missing and abused women" that should and can be address in be addressed in films and television productions. Thank for your insightful video 16:40
I hadn’t heard of Wind River but having looked it up, I definitely see the resemblance. I’m pretty sure the writers saw it and wanted to do that. The actress that played Navarro her first film was another movie about Native American women being murdered and she got the part because of her real life activism for the issue.
If they did more detective work their behaviors could be overlooked, but for example when they got a suspect tied up , Danvers decided to go to sleep? Marty and Cole had issuesBUT thy wouldn't have just said let's save this scene for later. They didn't do much "detective" work.
I think in some scenes in the final episode you can see it written on the actor's faces. They're just not feeling the falseness of certain moments. To have one moment of stretching disbelief is forgivable. But to have multiple WTF moments is a sure sign of failure.
I agree with your assessment of the criticism being leveled at popular media at the moment. I wish that your words would have a positive effect on the situation. Sadly the people who are saying these things are not going to change their opinions with rational discourse. The only way they will change opinions, is if their circle of influence changes theirs first. Keep fighting the good fight!
you may be right--this was my first season of watching it and I liked it--but agree with the comments about the scientists killing Annie--that was kinda unbelievable to me too
@@ejalltheway2339 Such an ignorant take, all men are inherently evil and kill without remorse the first opportunity they get, didn't you know that? Educate yourself.
He said he thinks that. He didn't say that he has proof of that. You're allowed to not like shit and you're allowed to say random bs. It's only fair we all have that chance
There’s no way a serious, adult, critic, could take Night Country seriously. We were excited for it and couldn’t get through the second episode. Absolutely a pile of hot steaming garbage.
I was convinced that this season of true detective was supposed to be another series, and I believe it was harmed by the writers’ strike, but if you think about it, there are 6 episodes of 1 hour each, if they had good writers, they could have made a very good story!
Go watch fortitude tv series for a good comparison. My fav part of season 4 was reading comments that got me on to fortitude as a tv series. It's bingeable. Has a great cast and allows multiple stories to breath
Can someone explain the reindeer killing themselves? Why did the men suffer injuries and die of terror if they died from the cold? Why was the trailer filled with all the symbols and weird items? Why didn’t the surviving victim just tell them the natives did it? Why the polar bear? Where was the actual detective work that didn’t involve Google search? Why did the storm only affect some of the town? What was Otis even for and why was he actually linked to the night country? Why in gods name did the scientists leave all the murder weapons and photos of Annie lying around, for years! Why didn’t they use heat to melt the snow instead of corruption, pollution and murder?
Damn my eyes for being excited when Jodi Foster was announced as the lead. I should've known better... Long gone are the days of Silence of the Lambs, where a strong female character would be written in a relatable, realistic or remotely feminine manner.
Imagine how good this show could've been had it been written as a straightforward procedural drama focused on the frozen, murdered scientists looking like a sculpture you'd find in the 9th circle of hell. There would be no mysteriously murdered indigenous activist, and the two cops would be quirky and fallible, sure, just as they were in the first season, but they wouldn't be abrasive and obnoxious to the point the audience is rooting for the killer(s). I watched all of the Night Country episodes because I'm a completist. It was a grueling ordeal, but all over now, thank God.
I am a woman and a fan of season 1. I had no idea that Night Country had a female director/writer or who Issa Lopez was while watching the season and frankly I don’t give a fuck. I had no idea who the creator of season 1 was as well. NC had so many contrivances it should get an award or something. Very silly weak writing, for sure. With their “women first” approach the show turned out to be “a mob of native cleaning ladies murders a bunch of scientists and prevents humanity from getting a cancer cure because reasons”.
What happened to the caribou and how was it related to the story, who was catfishing Hank, and how did the scientist die since the veterinarian said they didn’t freeze to death? 🤨🤷🏾♂️
You are fantastic. I watched this, and immediately re-started it to watch it again. I happen to agree with every word you have said, wholeheartedly (I must be a bad woman then?) - But everything about this - Your delivery, your realism, your firm stance, your logic, even your cadence. What an absolute joy to partake in. Thank you for this. I'll sub and would be perfectly happy to listen to you talk about paint drying.
After experiencing, and being enraptured by season 1, nothing else could even compare. I contend that season 1 of True Detective is one of the greatest most competently crafted and presented pieces of media of all time. There is not a false note from start to finish, the actors knew who they were and inhabited those roles in a way that is just in no uncertain terms, astounding, and it just left me dumbstruck by how good it was. I cant speak highly enough about it and the impact it had on me personally. Since then, the series has been fair to middling. Nothing about it has stood out as being in any way impressive or impactful and nothing I have read or seen regarding this latest season has me the least bit interested in seeing it other than being able to speak about it in an educated manner if it should come up. I dont feel like there is anything there, but I will check it out at some point so I know firsthand what its all about and im not just some dipshit online crying about wokeness having never experienced the series for myself which seems to be the default these days. All that said, season 2 was just fine. It wasnt offensively bad, it just kind of existed.
@@jonathanbell8887I need to go back and watch season 2. I remember it as meh but not derisively so. I think I watched it prior to season 1 though so no comparison. What was your biggest gripe with it?
@@notmyrealpseudonym6702 It was essentially impossible to follow and characters did a lot of things that made no sense. Just off the top of my head Taylor Hitch was in the military. He deployed and made a bunch of money. Instead of putting it in a bank - money he made legally - he hides it in a little backpack behind his water heater. It just has a bunch of stuff like that for no reason.
I gotta be honest, I have a huge crush on Rachel McAdams ass....aspects of her character so that probably clouded my judgement. Might need to go look at her ass again, i mean the season 2, show, thing....@@jonathanbell8887
For me it was really simple. By the end of episode 2, I said to myself, “Here’s a perfect example of why we can’t have nice things.” Just didn’t feel like subjecting myself to another drop in the bucket of the never ending preach fest, and I turned it off.
Read an interview with the writer where she explicitly says that was her goal: the viewer decides if there was anything supernatural or not. I hate that. Some ambiguity in a story is fine -- not about what *kind* of story it is.
I just watched a bad show for the first time in more than a decade. I guess it wasn't a guilty pleasure. It was more an exercise to practice my writing, to point at the things I should never do, how any competent writer would do better. Jodie Foster helped. She acts so well she even overcomes the fact the script is badly written and she is a little miscast to make this stuff watchable and still do a compelling job with what she received. This series has nothing true of a detective work. It is mediocre at best. True Detective was never meant to be more than a miniseries, and the direction in S1 has been impossible to match, but this season with another writer who happens to have a telenovela past has been soap opera fan fiction Wattpad-style AI-powered crap that is just impressive for how awful it truly is. The pretentious soundtrack, the fact that some characters do horrible things and are portrayed as heroes or tough by the writer is just pure modern Hollywood. Clichéd scenes attempting at horror, bad CGI, bizarre tonal shifts, bizarre creative choices, all characters but the main two are severely underdeveloped, fridging of the Navarro's sister character... Should I continue? Psychopaths who we are supposed to like or empathize with. People who don't act like people act. Worst murder motivations seen in years. Ambiguity where it lacks substance, like hints that go nowhere. Omission usually only works when the writer knows what is not shown to the audience, but this Mexican writer doesn't seem to know what she is omitting. It is just red herring after red herring, and bait-and-switch to "subvert expectations" to the point of feeling like troling. The season feels dragged in times, rushed in others. It never finds a pace. It never finds a mystery, just supernatural stuff that added up to nothing. Navarro's character never clicks completely, if the lady portraying her is pretty two-dimensional, going from pissed to tough-but-vulnerable without any further nuances. Native American culture shown as flat and spiritual, without actual personality, character, something!! Fiona Shaw... mostly pointless, a mere plot device. Philosophical conversations, gone. Exposition? Sure, bring it on. Organic dialogue? Scarce. Engaging dialogue? Not much. It is plain, superficial, pedestrian. The case leads nowhere truly interesting, the resolution is full of plot holes, no logic, no payoff. A character turns out to be a villain, and it happens so fast it reminded me of Daenerys in Game of Thrones. Revelations are just further explanations about things we already knew or guessed correctly. The setting is fine, but not enough cinematography to justify a muted watch. 😂
You know, I actively reviled the first ep. It had the clear punching bag Male Character, the clear Simp Male Character. It had women taking down men that they couldnt take down, and just clear misandrist leanings. I quit after that ep. I'll try a couple more and see. I know this story was not supposed to be in the True Detective Universe (which isn't even a thing) but was re-geared to fit in.
Here’s the thing, I straight up have ZERO problems with the “identity politics” of this season. I didn’t like it because of the bad dialogue, s1 easter eggs that led nowhere, plot holes, and dumb “resolution” if you can even call it that. It was just bad, not because it featured two female leads, two queer leads, or many indigenous castmembers.
Alan started working for Rolling Stone in 2018. RS is owned by Penske Media, Jay Penske. Which owns The Hollywood Reporter, Deadline Hollywood, Variety and other magazines. All 4 outlets so far praise the creativity of the unknown of the finale and the show in general. I wonder if Jay Penske is golf buddies with David Zaslav that overlooks HBO. Edit#1: Especially when people mentioned that he is a great critic/writer in the past and the 180 degree turn makes zero scene. Something ain't right.
I'm a black women you are 💯. This season was horrible. It is just the facts. It was not True Detective. I thought season 2 was bad but Night Country was worst. If I was Nic I wouldn't even want an executive producer credit.
Season 3 was highly underrated too. It’s a little slower than the other seasons, which I think is its biggest flaw. But it’s a solid story with solid characters
I'm a Pacific Islander, and you are 💯 . This season was atrocious. Just keeping it 100. This was not True Detective. I loved season 2. I thought it was better than season 3. But Night Country is an embarrassment.
Season 2 wasn't bad, it just didn't feel like True Detective & should've been titled as a different show altogether. This Season 4 Night Country was just plain horrible in every way imaginable regardless of being under the TD franchise or not.
Funny! If you combine your theory of people who watched it hate women with my theory that they hate men you get: People who watched the show and liked it hate everyone .....yay! But you`re right somehow, I think the show is misandrist from the get go but then Peter, who is nothing more than a good boy to Denvers comes around the corner with every important clue that forwards the investigation, while the female bullies practically stand around eating donuts, which makes the women detectives look really lazy. Maybe this was supposed to be watched as a satire show and nobody really got it?
Agree. If this was its own thing, I would've hated it a lot less, lol. But what I saw with this was NOT True Detective. I don't care how many ties to S1 they shoehorned in it. Would I have thought it was good if it was just Night Country? No, but I would've been more "meh whatever" on it. And agree with you the ending. That was an abomination.
In Season One... a male detective devoted his life to solving the murder of a female prostitute. And this storyline is what has Issa Lopez so angry at men... White men that is. Season Four was 'Thelma and Louise II' on steroids. At least in that movie there were a few decent moral men (Harvey Keitel's character and his partners). At least in that movie they had real dialogue. This series was awful. That scene where the diabetic women swarming the research center made me laugh so hard... it went from a bad drama to a decent comedy.
That's why it's getting so many good to great reviews. It's cause everyone is so scared to criticize it, in fear of being called misogynistic or sexiest or whatever. It's a sad state of affairs.
I'm a :Lefty (Democrat) and just listening for like 5 minutes to Issa Lopez on the podcast I hear everything that Republicans criticize about wokeness and stuff like that. I thought seaon 3 was as good as 1 almost but this one was just awful. I don't iunderstand why they have to swear every other word either. I want to judge the show on it's own merits however and doing that it was no fun. None of the characters are likeable. The guy detective's wife was ridiculous... I enjoyed Masters of the Air and Tokyo VIce much more than this...
@@ErikKainYou said "truth" to the comment about conforming to politically correct opinions. Truth is a VERY subjective term. The comment made was also very subjective. Truth only applies to facts. What if it turns out that you really are a little bigoted? Have you ever genuinely considered that possibility. Or did you always dismiss that out of hand?
I wish that Danvers and Navarro were actually less.. Crappy. If the Wheeler thing was more of a one-off, in the moment event it was portrayed as that would have been much more powerful. But then how they handled Clark was just bonkers, incompetent, and wildly morally bankrupt. And I wish Danvers had continued to be a highly competent detective throughout despite her flaws. But her episode 1 and 2 competency was a flash in the pan. After that she's mostly portrayed as the town serial home wrecker, an alcoholic, and a serial drunk driver. She bumbles her way through the rest of the season with Prior doing all the real police work while she has contrived "what did you just say?" ahaha moments driving the plot forward. Really wanted to like this but it genuinely went downhill from the start. They had all the good ingredients and things were smelling great, but then it simmered way too long until our goodwill finally evaporated and it burned on the pan.
I didn’t mind Night Country, but it also didn’t feel the same as the other seasons of True Detective. There was something disconnected-feeling about the season, even though it had the most shoehorned references in it to the previous season. Also, as a dirty lefty, I felt it was kinda gross that this season kept to the same played-out trope that all indigenous people are MAGIC
I was skeptical when you said the show is bad, but it was BAD. As a minority woman I find that the the girl power element so cliche and jeuvenile.The ending did not make sense and made me so mad for looking forward to it.
Its a powergrab. Making trash is a part of the "rooting out process" the ones who complains become a target for the mob so they have something to amuse themselves with. Two birds in one stone. Root out dissedents to maintain complete control over the narrative and also feed the beasts. They dont care if the show sucks because they dont have the ability to understand art or quality of workmanship. They understand power and if the right people are pushed around in the show its good to them.
The massive stereotypical aspects about indigenous people in this show are disrespectful imo, especially with the low blow supernatural shenanigans that somehow became the solutions to everything on possibly IRL depiction of many unsolved cases of murdered or mission native woman across many reservations. This show can only be amounts to a political catharsis of female empowerment & climate change without nuances & everything are shallow.
@@RobertJones-st3wj Robert Jones is an incredibly common name, isn't it? There's a soccer referee called Robert Jones, there used to be a soccer player called Robert Jones. I knew a kid at school called Robert Jones. We even had a Far Right politician around here called Robert Jones. We can't move for bleedin' Robert Joneseses. What was your question again?
I was just thinking about this yesterday. They did not need to make these women bitter and "rough around the edges". Like women can't be detective u less they are as grizzled or more grizzled then men.
They really didn't. Just re-watched The Killing and that is a fantastic series with a lead woman detective, and it was great. Not sure why they thought Night Country would work when their characters are so tremendously unlikable.
@@jett2211 right and Sarah Linden in The Killing or Mare in Mare of Easttown aren't like the most chipper women of all time, but they have qualities you admire!
@@ErikKain oh yeah, mare as well. Linden was able to be a tough and a great detective while also possessing positive motherly traits, and a genuine wanting for human affection in her relationships with the fiancé, child and partner. I think her character really embodies the sacrifices one needs to make in life. It was also evident that while she might be a woman in a man’s world, as a detective, she was obviously respected and beloved among her peers. The detectives in Night country just radiate with hate and everyone around them follows suit.
@@ErikKain In retrospect Debra from "Dexter" is probably what many writers imagine their female characters to be except the ones responsible for writing the original characterization of Debra weren't all "Look at this STRONG woman over here"
The problem with those critics who (at least seem to) automatically love female, POC or “underrepresented” centric projects while dismissing all negative criticism as some form of an “ism” is they lose all credibility as critics who one can trust to give the audience qualitative criticism. Which is kind of your primary job as a critic. I don’t like certain genres and overate others so I may disagree on an individual review because of that, but I can at least trust I’m getting an honest review from you and not shilling. And personally if the “ist” card is the immediate go to argument when someone simply disagrees with them I’m probably going to outright ignore them anyway, which again seems counter productive to a critics career.
That review from Sepinwall was bananas. In arguing its superiority (e.g. vs. Form and Void; wut?) it immediately stuck out like a sore thumb upon googling TD after the finale aired. I recall reading his reviews (TWD? GOT? Sopranos even?) and they were totally reasonable, even too conservative (re: score) at times IMO... never blowing smoke. How much was this dude paid, and how gross does it feel? I think his gig at RS is a newish one as he used to write for HitFix/Uproxx.
There wasn't a single thing that made the two leads distinctly women. Either role could have been played by a man. Even most of the dialog could stay exactly the same. I would argue that having a man deliver some of Danvers lines would just make them impact more. Jodi Foster just isn't intimidating. I thought Kali Reiss performance was one note. No depth. Just mad and baby girl. Yeah this whole season just sucked.
Imagine being so woke you end up making light of misandric terrorism and underage pornography. Seriously, people need to hold some of these post-modern writers accountable for this shit.
To a degree, I did appreciate the ending. The ending was kind of powerful in a way - talking about the raid that killed the scientist i mean. That was pretty bad ass. My biggest gripe with this season, and ultimately what ruined it for me, was that the story leaned to heavy into the superficial - every time this occured I was immediately turned off by the story. I literally found myself fast forwarding the scenes and still getting the jist What's funny is I still could of lived with it if there were some tie to everyone being poisoned, but it all got swept under the rug. If I had an issue with the ending it's that it happened abruptly - I was genuinely expecting at least 8 episodes, so I was kinda caught off guard by the time the sixth episode ended. Anyways, I'm just rambling at this point but I could talk for a few hours about the little things the story got grossly wrong, like the detectives driving out to the nomad camp and divulging critical information to the possible murderer - that was retarded. No detective would ever have a scenario like that.... But whatever, the story must go on. Like I was initially saying, the story leaning to heavy into the superficial is why this season is unwatchable. It's impossible to appreciate the seriousness of the issue when the protagonist are being lead by schizophrenic hallucinations.
I thought season 4 was being unfairly maligned until I watched season 1 over the last 2 days. Even though I liked Jodie Foster as a character and some aspects of the show, it is night and day how much better season 1 is to season 4.
The show is utter trash, plain and simple. How comical is that the elusive cave that required an expert to locate ends up being a stone throw from the lab? Pathetic!
The show had potential, it seemed to me to be unfinished, like too much editing. The plot points were all over the place, and the direction was not clear. I kept waiting for it to be more fleshed out.
I agree but think it needed more editing...about 50% of the sub plots should have been cut and more time spent working on the core plot and logic. E.g I don't think Jodie Foster's daughter needed to be in the show, or rose.
@dancragg8997 Right never explained why she was preventing the daughter from understanding her heritage, it could have been left out. What actually happened to the son,etc
I've read a lot of the True Detective subreddit and none of the criticisms there had anything to do with hatred of women. I think people reflexively assume that any negative criticism = misogyny.
This season was an abomination. If I am called a sexist, and anti-indigenous people, then so be it. I don't care anymore, this show was so horrible I wish I could get my time back
I am one of those people who quite enjoyed it. (Up until the finale. But I'll get to that.) I thought it did okay with character work, giving the protagonists some clearly defined positive and negative traits and building up both some exploration of their backstories and space for character development. I thought the detecting parts were mostly functional. I thought it was competently shot and well acted. I thought the supernatural build-up was appropriately creepy. I'll probably go back to your takes and see if I want to re-evaluate my impressions. I don't think it's particularly feminist, or anti-feminist. Both the protagonists are deeply flawed assholes; they're hard to like. But unlike Galadriel, Echo or Captain Marvel, I think the writers have made their protagonists unlikeable on purpose. Because they get lots of negative feedback, both from other people in the show and from the plot. Sidebar: I think it's an important progressive step to be able to write female characters, or hbtq, colored, disabled, whatever ... who are villains, assholes, protagonists, saints and everything in between. Characters who are anything the writer might need, but also just happens to be [insert identity]. The last episode however made me feel as annoyed as I remember feeling at the end of every ScoobyDoo episode I watched as a kid. I thought the plot had been building up to a big awful reveal of just how in over the head the protagonists were. But in the end there was just a crazy dude in a secret basement and a bunch of angry cleaning ladies. And a little itty-bitty teensy-tiny yellow polka dot ghost story. Boo! I found it frustrating both because I wanted the big bad horror reveal at the end, but also because the writing has been placing mystery boxes and hints along the way, and now all of those are revealed as just manipulative misdirections. And the "explanation" we got at the end of how everything was mostly just mundane non-magical human evil ... doesn't even hang toghether. The feeling I have is that if I bothered to re-watch the whole thing, it would make _less_ sense than the first time. I agree that the show used the tired old trope of "magical indians". It's stale and shallow, and probably a bit racist. But mostly it's boring. And it had a really weird take on suicide at the end, no arguments about that. Cheers
What was done to TD4 was akin to buying the McDonald’s corporation and immediately changing the menu to Chinese food and expecting that no one would notice or react negatively. “Eat the Chinese food or you are a misogynist!” “How dare you ask why the menu was changed!” “Chinese food is superior!”
My biggest gripe with this show, forget it being True Detective or any other name, it was the dialog for me that drove me nuts, while the word Fuck doesn't offend me, it's used over & over & over & over again, it felt like every sentence was F*ck this & f*ck that, again it doesn't offend me but holy sh*t that is some redundant, lazy ass writing, seriously, someone get these writers a thesaurus as an early Christmas gift. It would have been great if our two main characters butted heads at first as they did but (Given their pasts), yet by late episode 2, developed an actual friendship, truly wanted to work together and solve the mystery by being actual detectives. Instead, we get these really unlikeable, angry, depressed pissed off people with the personalities of a plank of wood... there's just no real way to care about them. Overall disappointed with the show and a bummer to know that with all that money poured into the show's production, this was the best they could offer for the plot/story & dialog. If there's ever another True Detective, it will be an instant pass for me.
I truly wanted to like TD-NC, given the intriguing premises and characters/acting and beautiful locations/cinematography. Despite the problematic elements in episodes 1-5, I found it decent (if not great) until the final episode (6). The latter fell apart due to poor writing and plot resolutions (after a promising chilling initial scene of the two characters entering the ice caves -- albeit for nonsensical "urgent" reasons, while they leave their junior cop alone to clean up personal horror).
Reading a wiki entry of a bad movie can be better than watching a movie itself and saves you time in your life to do better things. I'm glad your life has 5-6 more worthwhile hours in it for you
I feel the review of Drew Burnett Gregory you quote at 7:55 onwards illustrates precisely what is wrong with culture criticism today: while the review rightly notes the show doesn't transcend a boring pile of clichés about cops and indigenous peoples, and ends up being a bore, ultimately the reviewer judges the show based on its ideological framing. Other reviewers who insist the show is good, or even better than its previous seasons, likely do so because they think the ideological framing hits the right notes: women are more than capable, white men bad and/or incompetent, capitalism bad, white science corrupt, indigenous people benevolent and kick-ass. Here we have a reviewer that says: that's not enough, it's still a rehash of the same cop clichés, centering the cop hero/redemption arc, and while that's true, it's not what makes Night Country such a mediocre tv-show. Some Disney movies have terrible politics (The Lion King, Beauty and the Beast) and provide excellent storytelling regardless.
I don't really understand the point of inverting season 1's masculine subtext? If Night Country is being critical of season 1, that's stupid because season 1 already did that to itself
One of the craziest things in debating this series with people is that its proponents simply cannot seem to grasp why others would take issue with the writing and dialogue. They genuinely think that this show had a compelling storyline with smart twists and razor-sharp dialogue.
I think the Inupiat woman doing the killing was supposed to be a commentary on the dyed in the wool deep rooted community that it's illustrated is connected but often over looked. Whenever they do show this group of woman they are silently united and looking after one another. One of the woman there was the woman who Annie saved her baby, one of them was the crematorium worker probably seen a few deaths go over looked and then you have Blair being looked out for by the group of woman being that she was a member of the community. Not that they really knocked it out of the park writing these women but I think that was sort of the point like oh you see these cleaning people that are ignored by everyone with power and authority? They are still here and relevant and have more of an impact than you realize.
UPDATE: ooops, you talk about Sepinwall’s review here, duh… Thanks for putting LEGIT reviews out there. A shame that is even a consideration these days. Did you see Alan Sepinwall’s review, which even said it was better than season 1?! lol. I’ve read his stuff for a long time, and this was SO embarrassing!
This season felt like a YA true crime novel you’d see for discount sale at an airport kiosk. I thought I was going crazy when I started seeing all of the positive reviews come in.
THERE IT IS. I was trying to figure out how this was weird compared to the other seasons, and THAT’S it. It feels like a YA version of previous seasons of True Detective. It’s following some of the same themes and concepts as previous seasons, but just kinda dumbed down. And again, a show that makes all indigenous people magic and mystical is pretty played out
You haven't been paying attention. Have you not noticed every popular film/TV franchise rebooted with female leads, preachy messaging and lackluster writing? Its critic proof cuz critics are scared of being labeled a sexist/racist/misogynist
@@chriswelter3859
What’s “YA?”
Bahahahaha - great description. Especially the whole scene when she's on Tinder. It was just silly.
I, too, thought I was losing my mind, although I was aware of the culture war syndrome. Even so, for The Guardian to call it a masterpiece giving five stars (that rarely happens), I started thinking I was living in some Stalinist reality/unreality. Thank God for Reddit, where I found some similar views to my own. It was garbage, barely one star.
Two cops in the middle of a storm in a not well understood area of ice decide to both drop down a random hole they made. How were they ever going to get back up that same hole. No reasonable persons would do that never mind two police officers. Just that one things among all the others tells you just how bad this was. A shocking mess of a story.
you have it just the opposite. the people they hire as police are lower iq, not higher
Not to mention, they start traversing the tunnels without leaving any path markers to follow for their return to the surface. (I guess they're too smart to get lost 🤣) After what seems like 100 feet, maybe more but not that far, they intersect with the lab that's right beneath the tsalal facility... Wtf? Did they enter the tunnels right next to tsalal, but couldn't see it because of the blizzard? It seems like they made a hole to enter the tunnels way out in the middle of nowhere, but if it was supposed to be next to tsalal, why would they need that junkie guy to guide them!? So fucking dumb
Also, I don't think the acting was that good from anybody. Obviously Jody foster is a great actress, but this wasn't anywhere close to a career defining performance. If anything, it was ok whereas Matt M's portrayal of Rust Cohle in season 1 is absolutely one of his career defining moments. It's the role that proved him to be a heavy hitting performer.
I kept thinking they didn't bring a rope? Or tell anyone where they are going?
Jodie Foster's character was originally so desperate for a guide to the ice caves, that she swiped heroin from the evidence locker and snuck that fellow out of rehab. But he gets shot in the head and she's all "it'll be fine" and decides to go to the ice caves anyway without a guide?!? Ugh. This was such a bummer because I feel like it could have been awesome.
Hate hate hated season four and wish I had that machine from "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" to remove the memory from my brain. Let's not speak of this mess again.
The way all the scientists had no reservations about killing Annie and just went for it was the wildest WTF of all the WTF moments.
Not in this feminist feast it wasn't. Every (white) man in the show was either weak, corrupt, a dork or a junkie.
This is just how all men are, clearly.
That was an awfully choreographed imitation of "that scene" in Wind River.
I kinda think that it’s Clark BS-ing them. He lied about touching Annie but he might be lying to himself as well. The whole vibe id her sustaining so many wounds and still being alive was off.
🤣🤣🤣@@ErikKain
After the first episode i was actually super intrigued. But as ep 2 and 3 went on i was wondering why the hell were not doing detective stuff.
That's how I feel. The season started off intriguing and I was kind of with it for the first four episodes...but then episodes 5 and 6 fell off a cliff.
@@omaridaniels8427, I experienced the same! I loved the initial set-up, and I really liked the two leading actresses very much. But after episode 4 it became obvious that the show couldn't stick the landing. There were too many characters and plotlines and open questions. It was absolutely impossible to end the show in a satisfying way. And in the end I had the feeling that the show-runners didn't even try to deliver any answers.
It's very unfortunate that these shows have become battlefields for the cultural war which is raging for a while now 😞 I have been attacked because I liked the show initially, and I had high hopes that it might be special. And now I will probably get a lot of flak because I disliked the final 😉
Same. It was the first season with an interesting start. They botched it very quickly
It’s unbelievable that Pete went through the most traumatic shit possible as a side story in the finale disposing of his father’s body after he shot him in the head totally alone aaaaaaand…. Danvers and Navarro don’t check in on him at all. Just a quick moment of “Huh, Pete’s gonna be messed up, isn’t he?” “Lol yeah, probably” between munching Funyuns.
The last we see of Pete is him bringing Danvers coffee while she smugly talks about how Hank’s body hasn’t been found. What the fuck?! One of the few endearing parts of the show is the Pete-Danvers motherly relationship but she apparently could give a shit about him
Peter should've turned in his badge and walked away from everything. He was the only one doing any actual detective work and he barely got as much as a 'Thank you.'
What didn't make the most sense to me was how Annie Kowtok understood the lab contained work that needed to be destroyed, but ok she tried to bust up all the equipment and materials in the hidden lab. But, ok she did. So I understand one of the scientists freaking out and stabbing her with a drill bit at hand. I can see the mass hysteria getting the rest of the group to pile on.
What makes even less sense is how when the cleaning woman discovers the same lab after accidentally spilling her bucket of water, goes down and some random object that happens to be a drill bit is immediately recognizable as the potential murder weapon. I mean did she end her career as a forensic pathologist to take up house cleaning?
Why did the scientists keep photos of her down on the mine? This was 6 years after her murder. Last thing you would want around is photos of the woman you murdered. Clark was so distraught and haunted by her murder , yet they decided to keep these photos ? So dumb.
...damnit that is dumb.
I would think the police wouldn’t release every detail of the case and the star shaped wounds would be one of those details.
Lopez apparently said the cleaning women somehow found Annie’s body before the cops, but would they have looked so closely at her in a dark shipping container to realize that the tiny stab wounds were star shaped? Even if they did, finding a hatch, finding a star shaped tool, and assuming it’s the murder weapon on a 6 year old case is a giant leap.
And if you used that tool to kill someone, you’d probably destroy that evidence and not leave it at the scene of the crime. The plot holes are never ending
Another thing I realized reading this: how many townsfolk even saw the star-shaped stab wounds on her flesh? Unless I missed it, how would the cleaning lady have even known she had star-shaped stab wounds? I could see maybe if a cop connecting the dots, but the cleaning lady (and then assuming they all did it)?
@@Tender.fiddles Wait, I'm confused. If the women who were doing the cleaning at Tsalal Station found Annie's body before the cops, why did they wait like 6 years to exact their revenge?
The tool the lady found was probably a drill bit, not the drill bit, but to a layperson, a wound from a bullet or a star-shaped tool might look very similar, so that leap is just not working for me.
Don't you love how that older lady ( Travis' lover ) doesn't get dragged in for questioning? She just wanders out on the ice and stumbles across the frozen scientists and tells the "detectives" that a dead person had shown her their location. The writers were so lazy they forget to draw the spiral tattoo on Clark in the final confrontation.
It's just 'cause Ennis is, like, WEIRD, maaan. You don't understand. Things are different up in good ol' Ennistown. An octuple-murder corpsicle is just another day, nothing to get worked up over.
The writer is not lazy it’s incompetent
Thank you so much for your P.S. It is so disgusting to me that Navarro apparently decided that the best thing she could do after solving these two mysteries was to just end her life...for what, because she was called to it?? Her poor decisions as a cop aside, she was never portrayed as someone with mental illness like her mother and sister; she had a career, love in her life and her community, so why was it acceptable for her to kill herself? Wouldn't it have been much more noble for her to use her power to help her people and live a good life? She ended up being like the magical Negro character whose sole purpose is to help those around them achieve something, only to then just fade away into nothing. What an infuriating end to a terrible season of television.
Why would the scientists have kept photos of Annie in the cave for 6 years after she was murdered? This would be a constant reminder of the worst day of their life. And with Clark being constantly haunted since that event, don’t you think the other men would have had a chat and said we need to get rid of everything that could remind him of her ? Also, the 2 biggest things that linked the 2 murders were the tongue and the power being cut. It turns out that neither had anything to do w the case. Such dumb writing!!!
Clark kept the photos
Yep, I've already been seeing it everywhere online. If you don't like the show, it's because you're a toxic male and hate women.
One of my favorites I saw today was a guy saying that TD S4 backlash all stems from "insecure males (probably white) who are intimidated by strong but flawed female leads."
Yep. It has to be that. Couldn't be because of the infinite plot holes, high school-level script, corny & cliched jump scares, and poor dialogue.
All I want to talk about is how bad this season was
Wow! You got a heart for saying something so negative and meaningless. I think Erik needs to up his game some.
@@True_Heretic Imagine being so angry about a heart on a youtube channel. lol.
@@MrSteve0311 The heart was misplaced numnuts!
@@MrSteve0311 Not angry. Its a matter of principle. If someone gets a heart for behaving like a cretin the heart giver is obviously clueless.
Why can't you just like or dislike a show based on the show itself?
No longer allowed.
@@ErikKain Wow. Shows are now canceling us!!
No, that would make too much sense 🤷
Poor writing, convoluted so-called plotlines, contrived dialogue, horrible music choices and mixing. . Add on top of that the fact that they shoehorned this into the True Detective franchise, which placed upon this season the need to perform. For all these reasons, I hated this show. It is NOT True Detective and is not good at all. I think the one thing that Night Country HAS succeeded in doing is in permanently killing off the True Detective franchise.
This season is better than season 2&3. I gave up on 2 and 3 is watchable but boring. The conclusion nicely wrapped up the mystery after meandering for 5 episodes on family drama.
@jonfreeman9682 it's the worst season of all why you think it's getting shit on by everyone? Must be them Maga folks aye? 😂
Agree totally. The setting, a mass weird murder of some isolated scientists some decent actors and a director who was supposed to excel at horror should have at least produced some scares and genuine creeps. But no we got nothing even of that and just one complete pile of nonsense.
You can write better can you? Betcha can't.
If the pollution from the mine allowed the scientists to access the ice samples, wouldn’t the pollution contaminate the ice samples, rendering them useless?
This was exactly my thought.
They claim that this pollution is so toxic that it alters your chromosomes, yet these researchers were using it to melt the permafrost to extract DNA from prehistoric microbes???
Do you expect anything in this to make sense?
It depends what the pollution was. Different pollutions have different effects. But I do think your question is a good one.
No the one mine was was responsible for global warming and aiding in melting the ice to save on drill bits
Only good from that scenario would be to reinforce the need to protect future core drilling to protect the samples. Instead of unlimited time for drilling, the workers would know that they only have hours? to drill and then wrap before "pollution" taints the samples.
I've watched a lot of bad shows but this one felt like a total fraud.
It's like if they took Sharknado, shoehorned in a bunch of "we're going to need a bigger boat" and "bow-legged ladies" quotes and called it Jaws.
Jawnado - a psychic tornado brings back the 4 dead sharks ... And the Brody family ... For one last confrontation
Jawnado 2 - another psychic tornado brings back the 4 sharks and the Brody to gang up against a bigger threat ... Climate change
If the detectives from earlier seasons were smart enough to use ghosts, maybe their cases wouldn’t have taken decades to solve.
😂
Oh boy 😂😂😂😂😂
As a female I hated everything about this season , it’s pure garbage
It's incredible how this season has made me understand both the experience of being gaslit (by the majority of media giving glowing reviews), and many of the grievances of the anti-woke crowd, despite being a leftist who in principle supports "the message" being pushed. It's almost like Issa Lopez is an undercover right winger who set out to ignite a internecine culture war to demonstrate the absurdity of identity politics to the left, but her parody was too on the nose and people just ate it up as sincere. Sadly I don't actually think that's the case, reality is just more absurd than art.
I remember when I was a leftist too. This might be your catalyst moment where you start to question all the propaganda you’ve been spoonfed.
You got it on the first try.
Seriously.
Interesting; I would say once you realize these type of issues you will notice it more and more.
I agree... these defenders of this series know how bad it is. And any reviewer that defends this as good story telling has lost all credibility.
I think I’ve mentioned it in your comments before, but for many years, I’ve been in a Facebook group dedicated to True Detective. The amount of drama in the group right now is insane. People who’ve been long-standing members are getting kicked out by the Admins on a daily basis. The phenomenon you’re talking about is so prevalent, people just pontificating with an unearned sense of moral superiority. Increasingly, it’s not even that you have to have enjoyed the show, you need to think it is the best program to ever grace our television screens… I’m guilty of wrong think, I’m sure I’ll get booted from the group sooner or later.
Should have just been called Night Country instead of True detective. There is no detective work being done besides Prior looking up stuff on the internet. Disappointing considering where true detective started.
so so so so absolutely true
We apparently didn’t watch the same show.
Why does Peter do all the work?
It’s like in Wind River where the female cop is surrounded by more competent men.
Because he loves neglecting his indigenous wife. Because men are the WOORST amirite
Yes I am a flaming leftist myself, all for indigenous representation and dismantling the patriarchy too, but a show like night country fails on so many levels to tell a story or stories that are in any way helpful or enlightening or insightful or inspiring to any possible movement of civil rights.
The story here was incoherent, nonsensical, abhorrent and the two lead women detectives are about as testosterone driven as any dude cop.
They do terrible things, everyone, and somehow base revenge is just the way to be. Horrible.
Everything went to hell in a handbasket right when Hank shoots the addict and his son kills him. It was all nonsense right from that scene. The finale was excruciating and ridiculous, I was cringing the whole time, it was torture.
Indigenous peoples' stories and those of tribes of Alaska and Canada need to be told; the missing indigenous women real life crises also - but nothing of any value or substance came from this show, tragically; it amounts to a grand insult to human beings in general, an insult to intelligence.
So poorly written.
This show has presented an extremely sad state of media discourse when you can't simply say you think a show is mediocre without accusations being thrown at you. True equality is realizing that a person of any gender, race, sexual orientation, or religion is just as capable of excellence or mediocrity compared to anyone else. Most people either celebrate or are indifferent to this type of thing and focus on the content of the show itself. Infantilizing women and elevating their work artificially due to factors outside of the quality of the show such as their gender/ethnicity doesn't help anyone. There have been not only countless celebrated shows featuring/made by women at this point, Fleabag winning an Emmy featuring a promiscuous character is a good example, but also so many highly celebrated detective shows with female detectives, Mare of Easttown on the same network being one example. The narrative that all of a sudden, in 2024, people have a problem with that is ludicrous. It reminds me of when Lisa joins the football team in the Simpsons and says "That's right! A girl wants to play football, how about that!" and there are already a couple of girls on the team. It's kind of arbitrary/not a big deal at this point to most people, I feel.
Also the fact that people created a positive echo chamber subreddit to counteract a negative echo chamber subreddit is just peak reddit. I was permanently banned from the TDNightCountry sub for backing up a Mod who suggested a rule to try and minimize shit-talking about the main sub. There are posts on there like "I saw a guy on the main sub say he liked episode 5 despite not liking the earlier episodes, FUCK YOU to him" and it got massively upvoted. People cannot say criticisms of the show on that sub in any way without ending it with "but I swear I really like the show overall!" for fear of being massively downvoted. This show's discourse depresses me honestly.
This was abysmal. When they „introduced” the „Time is a flat circle” line I had a Greta Thunberg face and her „HOW DARE YOU!” came from my mouth…
Beyond the stupid gender controversy that affects almost every modern movie scenario (including of course night country), the biggest problem of true detective season 4 is that is it hardly a detective story. It's more like a true soap opera where the characters are aware and care about the main story sporadically. The progress of the story happens randomly and predictably linear. Let's hope the next writer will take in to account that fans of true detective would want to watch a DETECTIVE story. That is: with mystery, hidden messages, problem solving and exploration.
Danvers tells Pete to do something. She and Navarro go off and deal with their personal problems and may e interview someone for the rest of the episode. Start of next episode Pete tells Danvers the result of his investigation which leads her to tell him to something. Repeat. Pete did most of the investigation offscreen.
As you your self correctly suggested "Night Country" was largely a lift of "Wind River" highly adapted to fit into the "True Detective", backstory! I will also add much of the horror and special effects that was presented in the early episodes was a direct lift from John Carpenters ""The Thing""!
In my opinion there are multiple problems in the presentation.
1. There should have been a focus on one of murder at a time. The murders at the laboratory could have lead to the Anne K. Murder in final resolution. Rather than attempt to take on both cases simultaneously!
2. Because the plot already existed the production team and writers attempted to shoe horn a fit by creating to many "Mccoffins" and tie in that only added to the confusion.
3. While Jodie Fosters acting, most of the rest of the cast were reacting. Foster was on an entirely different level from the rest of the cast.
4. Handling some of the social commentary was manipulative if not inept! There have been many films that have tackled these subjects with out the audience feeling used !
And yes I agree there are many issues such as, "missing and abused women" that should and can be address in be addressed in films and television productions.
Thank for your insightful video 16:40
I hadn’t heard of Wind River but having looked it up, I definitely see the resemblance. I’m pretty sure the writers saw it and wanted to do that. The actress that played Navarro her first film was another movie about Native American women being murdered and she got the part because of her real life activism for the issue.
If they did more detective work their behaviors could be overlooked, but for example when they got a suspect tied up , Danvers decided to go to sleep? Marty and Cole had issuesBUT thy wouldn't have just said let's save this scene for later. They didn't do much "detective" work.
I think in some scenes in the final episode you can see it written on the actor's faces. They're just not feeling the falseness of certain moments. To have one moment of stretching disbelief is forgivable. But to have multiple WTF moments is a sure sign of failure.
I agree with your assessment of the criticism being leveled at popular media at the moment. I wish that your words would have a positive effect on the situation. Sadly the people who are saying these things are not going to change their opinions with rational discourse. The only way they will change opinions, is if their circle of influence changes theirs first. Keep fighting the good fight!
I also think most defenders of the show never watched it in the first place.
you may be right--this was my first season of watching it and I liked it--but agree with the comments about the scientists killing Annie--that was kinda unbelievable to me too
@@ejalltheway2339 Such an ignorant take, all men are inherently evil and kill without remorse the first opportunity they get, didn't you know that? Educate yourself.
lol why would you think that?I watched it and I liked it
I did. Loved it. And clearly, many other people did as well. But you obviously made your comment without researching beforehand.
He said he thinks that. He didn't say that he has proof of that. You're allowed to not like shit and you're allowed to say random bs. It's only fair we all have that chance
You said it.... These days strong female characters would actually be toxic males if the sexes were reversed....
There’s no way a serious, adult, critic, could take Night Country seriously. We were excited for it and couldn’t get through the second episode. Absolutely a pile of hot steaming garbage.
I was convinced that this season of true detective was supposed to be another series, and I believe it was harmed by the writers’ strike, but if you think about it, there are 6 episodes of 1 hour each, if they had good writers, they could have made a very good story!
Go watch fortitude tv series for a good comparison. My fav part of season 4 was reading comments that got me on to fortitude as a tv series. It's bingeable. Has a great cast and allows multiple stories to breath
I’m a woman in mid forties. Thought season 1 was a masterpiece for that time. And I was not impressed with season 4. Didn’t connect.
Can someone explain the reindeer killing themselves? Why did the men suffer injuries and die of terror if they died from the cold? Why was the trailer filled with all the symbols and weird items? Why didn’t the surviving victim just tell them the natives did it? Why the polar bear? Where was the actual detective work that didn’t involve Google search? Why did the storm only affect some of the town? What was Otis even for and why was he actually linked to the night country? Why in gods name did the scientists leave all the murder weapons and photos of Annie lying around, for years! Why didn’t they use heat to melt the snow instead of corruption, pollution and murder?
Yeah, I've been wondering about the reindeer. Help please
Because it was rubbish.
The idea of the scientists needing the pollution to save the world was just dumb.
Damn my eyes for being excited when Jodi Foster was announced as the lead. I should've known better...
Long gone are the days of Silence of the Lambs, where a strong female character would be written in a relatable, realistic or remotely feminine manner.
Imagine how good this show could've been had it been written as a straightforward procedural drama focused on the frozen, murdered scientists looking like a sculpture you'd find in the 9th circle of hell. There would be no mysteriously murdered indigenous activist, and the two cops would be quirky and fallible, sure, just as they were in the first season, but they wouldn't be abrasive and obnoxious to the point the audience is rooting for the killer(s).
I watched all of the Night Country episodes because I'm a completist. It was a grueling ordeal, but all over now, thank God.
The killers were the local women. Hardly anybody on this page is rooting for them. They ain't white enough or male enough it seems.
I am a woman and a fan of season 1. I had no idea that Night Country had a female director/writer or who Issa Lopez was while watching the season and frankly I don’t give a fuck. I had no idea who the creator of season 1 was as well. NC had so many contrivances it should get an award or something. Very silly weak writing, for sure. With their “women first” approach the show turned out to be “a mob of native cleaning ladies murders a bunch of scientists and prevents humanity from getting a cancer cure because reasons”.
What happened to the caribou and how was it related to the story, who was catfishing Hank, and how did the scientist die since the veterinarian said they didn’t freeze to death? 🤨🤷🏾♂️
Good points
You are fantastic. I watched this, and immediately re-started it to watch it again. I happen to agree with every word you have said, wholeheartedly (I must be a bad woman then?) - But everything about this - Your delivery, your realism, your firm stance, your logic, even your cadence. What an absolute joy to partake in. Thank you for this. I'll sub and would be perfectly happy to listen to you talk about paint drying.
Still trying to figure out who gave a strong performance
not even the cgi polar bear.
@@zzz7zzz9 The orange?
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 actually, good call. The orange hit it outta the park.
After experiencing, and being enraptured by season 1, nothing else could even compare. I contend that season 1 of True Detective is one of the greatest most competently crafted and presented pieces of media of all time. There is not a false note from start to finish, the actors knew who they were and inhabited those roles in a way that is just in no uncertain terms, astounding, and it just left me dumbstruck by how good it was. I cant speak highly enough about it and the impact it had on me personally. Since then, the series has been fair to middling. Nothing about it has stood out as being in any way impressive or impactful and nothing I have read or seen regarding this latest season has me the least bit interested in seeing it other than being able to speak about it in an educated manner if it should come up. I dont feel like there is anything there, but I will check it out at some point so I know firsthand what its all about and im not just some dipshit online crying about wokeness having never experienced the series for myself which seems to be the default these days. All that said, season 2 was just fine. It wasnt offensively bad, it just kind of existed.
Season 2 was offensively bad. I still think season 2 is probably worse than 4 but 4 really doesn't want to let it win that title.
@@jonathanbell8887I need to go back and watch season 2. I remember it as meh but not derisively so. I think I watched it prior to season 1 though so no comparison. What was your biggest gripe with it?
@@notmyrealpseudonym6702 It was essentially impossible to follow and characters did a lot of things that made no sense. Just off the top of my head Taylor Hitch was in the military. He deployed and made a bunch of money. Instead of putting it in a bank - money he made legally - he hides it in a little backpack behind his water heater. It just has a bunch of stuff like that for no reason.
I gotta be honest, I have a huge crush on Rachel McAdams ass....aspects of her character so that probably clouded my judgement. Might need to go look at her ass again, i mean the season 2, show, thing....@@jonathanbell8887
For me it was really simple.
By the end of episode 2, I said to myself, “Here’s a perfect example of why we can’t have nice things.”
Just didn’t feel like subjecting myself to another drop in the bucket of the never ending preach fest, and I turned it off.
for me, it was the attempt to make it both supernatural and natural, viewers choice. Has that ever worked?
Read an interview with the writer where she explicitly says that was her goal: the viewer decides if there was anything supernatural or not.
I hate that.
Some ambiguity in a story is fine -- not about what *kind* of story it is.
Game of Thrones did pretty well with supernatural and natural story up until last season or so. It ended disappointingly though.
I just watched a bad show for the first time in more than a decade. I guess it wasn't a guilty pleasure. It was more an exercise to practice my writing, to point at the things I should never do, how any competent writer would do better. Jodie Foster helped. She acts so well she even overcomes the fact the script is badly written and she is a little miscast to make this stuff watchable and still do a compelling job with what she received. This series has nothing true of a detective work. It is mediocre at best. True Detective was never meant to be more than a miniseries, and the direction in S1 has been impossible to match, but this season with another writer who happens to have a telenovela past has been soap opera fan fiction Wattpad-style AI-powered crap that is just impressive for how awful it truly is. The pretentious soundtrack, the fact that some characters do horrible things and are portrayed as heroes or tough by the writer is just pure modern Hollywood. Clichéd scenes attempting at horror, bad CGI, bizarre tonal shifts, bizarre creative choices, all characters but the main two are severely underdeveloped, fridging of the Navarro's sister character... Should I continue? Psychopaths who we are supposed to like or empathize with. People who don't act like people act. Worst murder motivations seen in years. Ambiguity where it lacks substance, like hints that go nowhere. Omission usually only works when the writer knows what is not shown to the audience, but this Mexican writer doesn't seem to know what she is omitting. It is just red herring after red herring, and bait-and-switch to "subvert expectations" to the point of feeling like troling. The season feels dragged in times, rushed in others. It never finds a pace. It never finds a mystery, just supernatural stuff that added up to nothing. Navarro's character never clicks completely, if the lady portraying her is pretty two-dimensional, going from pissed to tough-but-vulnerable without any further nuances. Native American culture shown as flat and spiritual, without actual personality, character, something!! Fiona Shaw... mostly pointless, a mere plot device. Philosophical conversations, gone. Exposition? Sure, bring it on. Organic dialogue? Scarce. Engaging dialogue? Not much. It is plain, superficial, pedestrian. The case leads nowhere truly interesting, the resolution is full of plot holes, no logic, no payoff. A character turns out to be a villain, and it happens so fast it reminded me of Daenerys in Game of Thrones. Revelations are just further explanations about things we already knew or guessed correctly. The setting is fine, but not enough cinematography to justify a muted watch. 😂
You know, I actively reviled the first ep. It had the clear punching bag Male Character, the clear Simp Male Character. It had women taking down men that they couldnt take down, and just clear misandrist leanings. I quit after that ep. I'll try a couple more and see. I know this story was not supposed to be in the True Detective Universe (which isn't even a thing) but was re-geared to fit in.
I wonder what the Night Country fans thought of FTWD S 4-8?
You earned my subscription. The difference between those who liked Night Country and those who do not is about 30 IQ points.
Here’s the thing, I straight up have ZERO problems with the “identity politics” of this season. I didn’t like it because of the bad dialogue, s1 easter eggs that led nowhere, plot holes, and dumb “resolution” if you can even call it that. It was just bad, not because it featured two female leads, two queer leads, or many indigenous castmembers.
I loved how Clark cracked the phone screen barefoot when Annie was killed. That moment perfectly sums up this shitshow season.
Alan started working for Rolling Stone in 2018. RS is owned by Penske Media, Jay Penske. Which owns The Hollywood Reporter, Deadline Hollywood, Variety and other magazines. All 4 outlets so far praise the creativity of the unknown of the finale and the show in general. I wonder if Jay Penske is golf buddies with David Zaslav that overlooks HBO.
Edit#1: Especially when people mentioned that he is a great critic/writer in the past and the 180 degree turn makes zero scene. Something ain't right.
Money and politics.
I believe he used to have an independent website also rather than working for a large media company.
I'm a black women you are 💯. This season was horrible. It is just the facts. It was not True Detective.
I thought season 2 was bad but Night Country was worst. If I was Nic I wouldn't even want an executive producer credit.
Season 3 was highly underrated too. It’s a little slower than the other seasons, which I think is its biggest flaw. But it’s a solid story with solid characters
I'm a Pacific Islander, and you are 💯 . This season was atrocious. Just keeping it 100. This was not True Detective. I loved season 2. I thought it was better than season 3. But Night Country is an embarrassment.
Season 2 wasn't bad, it just didn't feel like True Detective & should've been titled as a different show altogether.
This Season 4 Night Country was just plain horrible in every way imaginable regardless of being under the TD franchise or not.
Funny! If you combine your theory of people who watched it hate women with my theory that they hate men you get: People who watched the show and liked it hate everyone .....yay! But you`re right somehow, I think the show is misandrist from the get go but then Peter, who is nothing more than a good boy to Denvers comes around the corner with every important clue that forwards the investigation, while the female bullies practically stand around eating donuts, which makes the women detectives look really lazy. Maybe this was supposed to be watched as a satire show and nobody really got it?
I finished the season because of how intriguingly bad the writing was. So jokes on me I guess
I wanted to find out more about Travis Cohle, like did he run an interpretive dance studio in Alaska before he died? Might explain a thing or two...
This would have been a fine show had it not been under the “True Detective”, umbrella. That ending was so bad I couldn’t believe what I was watching.
Agree. If this was its own thing, I would've hated it a lot less, lol. But what I saw with this was NOT True Detective. I don't care how many ties to S1 they shoehorned in it.
Would I have thought it was good if it was just Night Country? No, but I would've been more "meh whatever" on it.
And agree with you the ending. That was an abomination.
In Season One... a male detective devoted his life to solving the murder of a female prostitute. And this storyline is what has Issa Lopez so angry at men... White men that is. Season Four was 'Thelma and Louise II' on steroids. At least in that movie there were a few decent moral men (Harvey Keitel's character and his partners). At least in that movie they had real dialogue. This series was awful. That scene where the diabetic women swarming the research center made me laugh so hard... it went from a bad drama to a decent comedy.
That's why it's getting so many good to great reviews. It's cause everyone is so scared to criticize it, in fear of being called misogynistic or sexiest or whatever. It's a sad state of affairs.
Bots. Twitter is more than 50% bots.
*sexist
I'm a :Lefty (Democrat) and just listening for like 5 minutes to Issa Lopez on the podcast I hear everything that Republicans criticize about wokeness and stuff like that. I thought seaon 3 was as good as 1 almost but this one was just awful. I don't iunderstand why they have to swear every other word either. I want to judge the show on it's own merits however and doing that it was no fun. None of the characters are likeable. The guy detective's wife was ridiculous... I enjoyed Masters of the Air and Tokyo VIce much more than this...
You're gonna be called all sorts of names for the remainder of your life unless you decide to go with the 'correct' opinion.
Truth
He’s a white man so they’ll do that no matter what.
@@ErikKain Nope. Opinion.
@@True_Heretic what?
@@ErikKainYou said "truth" to the comment about conforming to politically correct opinions. Truth is a VERY subjective term. The comment made was also very subjective. Truth only applies to facts. What if it turns out that you really are a little bigoted? Have you ever genuinely considered that possibility. Or did you always dismiss that out of hand?
I wish that Danvers and Navarro were actually less.. Crappy.
If the Wheeler thing was more of a one-off, in the moment event it was portrayed as that would have been much more powerful. But then how they handled Clark was just bonkers, incompetent, and wildly morally bankrupt.
And I wish Danvers had continued to be a highly competent detective throughout despite her flaws. But her episode 1 and 2 competency was a flash in the pan. After that she's mostly portrayed as the town serial home wrecker, an alcoholic, and a serial drunk driver. She bumbles her way through the rest of the season with Prior doing all the real police work while she has contrived "what did you just say?" ahaha moments driving the plot forward.
Really wanted to like this but it genuinely went downhill from the start. They had all the good ingredients and things were smelling great, but then it simmered way too long until our goodwill finally evaporated and it burned on the pan.
I didn’t mind Night Country, but it also didn’t feel the same as the other seasons of True Detective. There was something disconnected-feeling about the season, even though it had the most shoehorned references in it to the previous season. Also, as a dirty lefty, I felt it was kinda gross that this season kept to the same played-out trope that all indigenous people are MAGIC
I'm amazed more people haven't pointed this out. Such a dated stereotype played comically straight and sincere.
Come to the dark side
So Miss Kowtok was so educated that she could decipher/understand scientists' work?
I was skeptical when you said the show is bad, but it was BAD. As a minority woman I find that the the girl power element so cliche and jeuvenile.The ending did not make sense and made me so mad for looking forward to it.
Its a powergrab. Making trash is a part of the "rooting out process" the ones who complains become a target for the mob so they have something to amuse themselves with.
Two birds in one stone. Root out dissedents to maintain complete control over the narrative and also feed the beasts.
They dont care if the show sucks because they dont have the ability to understand art or quality of workmanship. They understand power and if the right people are pushed around in the show its good to them.
Shocked to hear Seppinwal's take.
Ditto.
The massive stereotypical aspects about indigenous people in this show are disrespectful imo, especially with the low blow supernatural shenanigans that somehow became the solutions to everything on possibly IRL depiction of many unsolved cases of murdered or mission native woman across many reservations.
This show can only be amounts to a political catharsis of female empowerment & climate change without nuances & everything are shallow.
Whilst I didn't think it was terrible the mass overpraise and willingness of critics to see beyond the plot holes is just mind-boggling to me
Good for you Robert. You sound like a man with a sense of perspective.
@@True_Heretic is that you Issa Lopez?
@@RobertJones-st3wj Robert Jones is an incredibly common name, isn't it? There's a soccer referee called Robert Jones, there used to be a soccer player called Robert Jones. I knew a kid at school called Robert Jones. We even had a Far Right politician around here called Robert Jones. We can't move for bleedin' Robert Joneseses. What was your question again?
@@True_Heretic I'm a man of many talents 😄
Out of curiosity what's a show you do think is terrible?
I was just thinking about this yesterday. They did not need to make these women bitter and "rough around the edges". Like women can't be detective u less they are as grizzled or more grizzled then men.
They really didn't. Just re-watched The Killing and that is a fantastic series with a lead woman detective, and it was great. Not sure why they thought Night Country would work when their characters are so tremendously unlikable.
@@jett2211 right and Sarah Linden in The Killing or Mare in Mare of Easttown aren't like the most chipper women of all time, but they have qualities you admire!
Women have a hard time writing women. For most of the time they can only re-skin a man type of character in a woman’s skin.
@@ErikKain oh yeah, mare as well. Linden was able to be a tough and a great detective while also possessing positive motherly traits, and a genuine wanting for human affection in her relationships with the fiancé, child and partner. I think her character really embodies the sacrifices one needs to make in life. It was also evident that while she might be a woman in a man’s world, as a detective, she was obviously respected and beloved among her peers. The detectives in Night country just radiate with hate and everyone around them follows suit.
@@ErikKain In retrospect Debra from "Dexter" is probably what many writers imagine their female characters to be except the ones responsible for writing the original characterization of Debra weren't all "Look at this STRONG woman over here"
The problem with those critics who (at least seem to) automatically love female, POC or “underrepresented” centric projects while dismissing all negative criticism as some form of an “ism” is they lose all credibility as critics who one can trust to give the audience qualitative criticism. Which is kind of your primary job as a critic. I don’t like certain genres and overate others so I may disagree on an individual review because of that, but I can at least trust I’m getting an honest review from you and not shilling.
And personally if the “ist” card is the immediate go to argument when someone simply disagrees with them I’m probably going to outright ignore them anyway, which again seems counter productive to a critics career.
Women: „It’s OK when we do it…”
That review from Sepinwall was bananas. In arguing its superiority (e.g. vs. Form and Void; wut?) it immediately stuck out like a sore thumb upon googling TD after the finale aired. I recall reading his reviews (TWD? GOT? Sopranos even?) and they were totally reasonable, even too conservative (re: score) at times IMO... never blowing smoke. How much was this dude paid, and how gross does it feel? I think his gig at RS is a newish one as he used to write for HitFix/Uproxx.
you are the hero we all need
True Detective: Night Country is diarrhea.
The end.
There wasn't a single thing that made the two leads distinctly women. Either role could have been played by a man. Even most of the dialog could stay exactly the same. I would argue that having a man deliver some of Danvers lines would just make them impact more. Jodi Foster just isn't intimidating. I thought Kali Reiss performance was one note. No depth. Just mad and baby girl. Yeah this whole season just sucked.
Imagine being so woke you end up making light of misandric terrorism and underage pornography. Seriously, people need to hold some of these post-modern writers accountable for this shit.
To a degree, I did appreciate the ending. The ending was kind of powerful in a way - talking about the raid that killed the scientist i mean. That was pretty bad ass.
My biggest gripe with this season, and ultimately what ruined it for me, was that the story leaned to heavy into the superficial - every time this occured I was immediately turned off by the story. I literally found myself fast forwarding the scenes and still getting the jist
What's funny is I still could of lived with it if there were some tie to everyone being poisoned, but it all got swept under the rug.
If I had an issue with the ending it's that it happened abruptly - I was genuinely expecting at least 8 episodes, so I was kinda caught off guard by the time the sixth episode ended.
Anyways, I'm just rambling at this point but I could talk for a few hours about the little things the story got grossly wrong, like the detectives driving out to the nomad camp and divulging critical information to the possible murderer - that was retarded. No detective would ever have a scenario like that.... But whatever, the story must go on.
Like I was initially saying, the story leaning to heavy into the superficial is why this season is unwatchable. It's impossible to appreciate the seriousness of the issue when the protagonist are being lead by schizophrenic hallucinations.
How'd they know that/if all the scientists were involved. Or did they kill random innocent scientists too? Does murdering 20 people make up for 1?
You killed it! There’s no excuse for the poor storytelling and Peter really was the True Detective.
No its the cleaning lady !
I thought season 4 was being unfairly maligned until I watched season 1 over the last 2 days. Even though I liked Jodie Foster as a character and some aspects of the show, it is night and day how much better season 1 is to season 4.
The show is utter trash, plain and simple. How comical is that the elusive cave that required an expert to locate ends up being a stone throw from the lab? Pathetic!
The show had potential, it seemed to me to be unfinished, like too much editing. The plot points were all over the place, and the direction was not clear. I kept waiting for it to be more fleshed out.
I agree but think it needed more editing...about 50% of the sub plots should have been cut and more time spent working on the core plot and logic. E.g I don't think Jodie Foster's daughter needed to be in the show, or rose.
@dancragg8997 Right never explained why she was preventing the daughter from understanding her heritage, it could have been left out. What actually happened to the son,etc
I actually thought Kali Reis has potential as an actress, problem here was not feminism, it was an atrociously writen script that made no sense.
I've read a lot of the True Detective subreddit and none of the criticisms there had anything to do with hatred of women. I think people reflexively assume that any negative criticism = misogyny.
This season was an abomination. If I am called a sexist, and anti-indigenous people, then so be it. I don't care anymore, this show was so horrible I wish I could get my time back
I am one of those people who quite enjoyed it. (Up until the finale. But I'll get to that.)
I thought it did okay with character work, giving the protagonists some clearly defined positive and negative traits and building up both some exploration of their backstories and space for character development. I thought the detecting parts were mostly functional. I thought it was competently shot and well acted. I thought the supernatural build-up was appropriately creepy. I'll probably go back to your takes and see if I want to re-evaluate my impressions. I don't think it's particularly feminist, or anti-feminist. Both the protagonists are deeply flawed assholes; they're hard to like. But unlike Galadriel, Echo or Captain Marvel, I think the writers have made their protagonists unlikeable on purpose. Because they get lots of negative feedback, both from other people in the show and from the plot.
Sidebar: I think it's an important progressive step to be able to write female characters, or hbtq, colored, disabled, whatever ... who are villains, assholes, protagonists, saints and everything in between. Characters who are anything the writer might need, but also just happens to be [insert identity].
The last episode however made me feel as annoyed as I remember feeling at the end of every ScoobyDoo episode I watched as a kid. I thought the plot had been building up to a big awful reveal of just how in over the head the protagonists were. But in the end there was just a crazy dude in a secret basement and a bunch of angry cleaning ladies. And a little itty-bitty teensy-tiny yellow polka dot ghost story. Boo! I found it frustrating both because I wanted the big bad horror reveal at the end, but also because the writing has been placing mystery boxes and hints along the way, and now all of those are revealed as just manipulative misdirections. And the "explanation" we got at the end of how everything was mostly just mundane non-magical human evil ... doesn't even hang toghether. The feeling I have is that if I bothered to re-watch the whole thing, it would make _less_ sense than the first time.
I agree that the show used the tired old trope of "magical indians". It's stale and shallow, and probably a bit racist. But mostly it's boring. And it had a really weird take on suicide at the end, no arguments about that.
Cheers
What was done to TD4 was akin to buying the McDonald’s corporation and immediately changing the menu to Chinese food and expecting that no one would notice or react negatively. “Eat the Chinese food or you are a misogynist!” “How dare you ask why the menu was changed!” “Chinese food is superior!”
My biggest gripe with this show, forget it being True Detective or any other name, it was the dialog for me that drove me nuts, while the word Fuck doesn't offend me, it's used over & over & over & over again, it felt like every sentence was F*ck this & f*ck that, again it doesn't offend me but holy sh*t that is some redundant, lazy ass writing, seriously, someone get these writers a thesaurus as an early Christmas gift.
It would have been great if our two main characters butted heads at first as they did but (Given their pasts), yet by late episode 2, developed an actual friendship, truly wanted to work together and solve the mystery by being actual detectives. Instead, we get these really unlikeable, angry, depressed pissed off people with the personalities of a plank of wood... there's just no real way to care about them.
Overall disappointed with the show and a bummer to know that with all that money poured into the show's production, this was the best they could offer for the plot/story & dialog.
If there's ever another True Detective, it will be an instant pass for me.
I truly wanted to like TD-NC, given the intriguing premises and characters/acting and beautiful locations/cinematography. Despite the problematic elements in episodes 1-5, I found it decent (if not great) until the final episode (6). The latter fell apart due to poor writing and plot resolutions (after a promising chilling initial scene of the two characters entering the ice caves -- albeit for nonsensical "urgent" reasons, while they leave their junior cop alone to clean up personal horror).
So, I haven't watched any of Night Country, but I have watched (and enjoyed) all of your reviews of it. Does that make me weird?
Makes you sensible
Reading a wiki entry of a bad movie can be better than watching a movie itself and saves you time in your life to do better things. I'm glad your life has 5-6 more worthwhile hours in it for you
Season 1 is Sopranos/ Breaking Bad level TV, the rest is like a joke in comparison
There are no humans in this show. The characters are what a psychopath imagines a human is.
Well, if nothing else, at least I've found an actual critic whose opinion I can grant some level of trust. Good job, Ekka.
I feel the review of Drew Burnett Gregory you quote at 7:55 onwards illustrates precisely what is wrong with culture criticism today: while the review rightly notes the show doesn't transcend a boring pile of clichés about cops and indigenous peoples, and ends up being a bore, ultimately the reviewer judges the show based on its ideological framing.
Other reviewers who insist the show is good, or even better than its previous seasons, likely do so because they think the ideological framing hits the right notes: women are more than capable, white men bad and/or incompetent, capitalism bad, white science corrupt, indigenous people benevolent and kick-ass.
Here we have a reviewer that says: that's not enough, it's still a rehash of the same cop clichés, centering the cop hero/redemption arc, and while that's true, it's not what makes Night Country such a mediocre tv-show.
Some Disney movies have terrible politics (The Lion King, Beauty and the Beast) and provide excellent storytelling regardless.
yeah the s1 finale was great
I don't really understand the point of inverting season 1's masculine subtext? If Night Country is being critical of season 1, that's stupid because season 1 already did that to itself
One of the craziest things in debating this series with people is that its proponents simply cannot seem to grasp why others would take issue with the writing and dialogue. They genuinely think that this show had a compelling storyline with smart twists and razor-sharp dialogue.
I think the Inupiat woman doing the killing was supposed to be a commentary on the dyed in the wool deep rooted community that it's illustrated is connected but often over looked. Whenever they do show this group of woman they are silently united and looking after one another. One of the woman there was the woman who Annie saved her baby, one of them was the crematorium worker probably seen a few deaths go over looked and then you have Blair being looked out for by the group of woman being that she was a member of the community. Not that they really knocked it out of the park writing these women but I think that was sort of the point like oh you see these cleaning people that are ignored by everyone with power and authority? They are still here and relevant and have more of an impact than you realize.
UPDATE: ooops, you talk about Sepinwall’s review here, duh…
Thanks for putting LEGIT reviews out there. A shame that is even a consideration these days. Did you see Alan Sepinwall’s review, which even said it was better than season 1?! lol. I’ve read his stuff for a long time, and this was SO embarrassing!