Warhammer 3 Kislev Unit Roster Tier List
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- Опубликовано: 25 фев 2022
- Total War: Warhammer 3 Rating Kislev unit roster.
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In the end times, when the entire world is crumbling and daemons, dragons, elves and humans fall into whatever oblivion awaits them, mousing over Tzar Guard will show you "Confident"(66/80). Absolute chads.
You haven’t seen them with the mod the Motherland
Just play on very hard battle difficulty and you'll see goblins do the same.
I feel like Snow Leopards could be viable if they had Stalk. Thematically it makes sense and they could be used for sniping artillery and ranged units.
I believe the Kislev lords can give them stalk on campaign
The summoned ones from Ice Witches/Katarin can get stalk
Its a skill for ice witches
Snow Leopards would way greater imo if they had more units and a higher armour/melee Defense. Their dmg is ok and their speed and amazing but they die too quick and one model is less problematic imo especially since it has not really big and therefore has not really mass at all I bet the sabre cat unit of ogres is better at what they are supposed to do…
Honestly they should have been a war hound unit. If not, then they should be on par with the carnosaur as an anti-large monster. They’re so weak right now.
It's crazy to me that Legend can play beyond his Livestream time. I don't think I like anything enough to do it as a full-time job AND for fun. The man is dedicated
He’s like a legend of the total war series.
So true though, he showed he has 13k hours on Wh2 thats insane, I cannot play a game for that long, I've played games for over 10 years now and I have never put more than like 3k hours into one game, which is still a lot but I dont get people who can do 10k hours in games, I get bored too quickly even if I really enjoy it. Maybe he doesn't have ADD/ADHD like most of us lot lool
It won’t last much longer, he’s pretty tired of it. He’s said so on livestream before.
@@mosinonby He took a break not long ago
@@iamnotjcook I know. I watched him say this in today’s livestream tho so it’s not like his feelings went away. I think the amount of time he spends playing this game is building a lot of resentment towards it. It isn’t healthy and I think he recognizes it. More power to him if he wants to take a step back or just quit altogether; the dude deserves happiness.
I'm so happy that the "Bear with Sled"-memestack is actually viable.
Just be careful when autoresolving with heavy warsleds. It didn't show me if I loose a unit in a battle. Also a tiny bit of attrition reduced the number of heavy war sleds from two to one. That killed the unit for me. Will try the light ones soon.
Boo get them !
I built an army of them as a joke challenge, and they ended up being the most powerful army that campaign.
Turin used them in one of his streams, yeah, just abuse that heaps of ammo and carry on
It's very weird to see Legend praise a higher-tier dedicated melee infantry... Especially one that's in a faction whose theme is centered on hybrid units.
This is a strange timeline.
Yeah. I think it's mostly a function of how long he's been doing content for WH2 though. He's not always railed on infantry, it's just that they really sucked on his preferred settings in WH2. It's a little to CA's credit that this game they're a bit more useful, so that's good.
CA could seriously just watch Legend's tierlists and rebalance things based almost entirely on that lol.
@Sorta Decent Gaming Melee infantry had a similar problem in game 1 as well. And Legend's balance is based utmost on potential for cheesing.
I mean he did also like iron breakers for dwarfs. But I guess they do have a ranged attack, kinda
@Alastair Lugg Iron breakers aren't useful for their melee performance, they're good because they negate the melee performance of everything else. Lol
@@Ehennings10 melee infantry exist to hold the line while missiles do damage… or that’s the case for most factions haha
So glad War Bears didn't end up being a disappointment, fun to use and good are a good combo.
Try rolling a stack with like 10 war bear riders with Boris. Bears go brr
Get the tech that gives them all frenzy.
@@shalax7881 why stop at 10, I play mine with 5 patriach (3 heal, 1 vigour, 1 meleeattack), an ice Maiden of ice and Boris, at this point it is just "Click on enemy aaaaand i won", just go in a giant blob and buff them to hell, while you debuff the enemy and/or outright kill them with the heart of frost spell
@@timrohde6492 6 Ice guard. Provides some nice support in minor settlement sieges for breaking towers. Rest heroes
@@shalax7881 jesus christ thats a lot of patriarchs😂😅
3 Little Groms in an army of Ice Guards or War Bears are my go to "doomstack" - they are super accurate (to the point the'yre actually good at sniping Lords or monster units with a few volleys), their projectiles punch through Infantry/small entities ranks dealing tons of damage, they get a lot of ammo and general stats boost with Lords trees and tech, and they're a bit slow but an actual chariot you can smash into infantry (without anti-large bonus at least) that will live long enough to add the value if there's a Patriarch or two around to heal them. Even low tier stacks, like Kossars spams, can be fairly competent late game having these around. The only downside is the arc of fire being quite flat. They may look like a mortar but it's closer to the cannon - that makes terrain awareness important on bumpy maps.
Cannons in general are a good choice in Warhammer 3. Cathay's cannons are great as well, especially against the enemies they fight.
@@AshenVictor I didn't expect Cathay's cannon to be this good to be honest.
How do you get them to target anything? I don't like using them because they're terrible in sieges for me.
I just roll over everything with Boris's bear rider stack
I find the Little Groms to be a bit too derpy to use as an impromptu chariot. They're very slow, they tend to forget your orders to charge and for some reason they fire whilst moving, even when you don't want them to. I have unhappy memories of my gryphon legion being nearly deleted by a misplaced Little Grom shot when I tried to bring them into melee. That said, totally agree that they are excellent artillery pieces.
Legend is speaking about traits that reduce the upkeep cost of these sleds, but I've not found any in my Kislev play through. Anyone tell me how they are achieved?
E-Bear should have an aura that slows and reduce enemy melee attack to be somewhat viable.
That's a really good idea! It would be extremely thematic and fitting, too.
it should have aoe damage, it strikes 2 unites per attack. Something is seriously broken with its animations
I honestly think they should not have breathe attacks and just go with the aura + explosion spell. They suck so much it was almost impossible for me to use all of 3 breathe attacks on a single battle. Unlike dragons
I think it should have two auras, similar to what you can do with the Daemon Prince. A 20m aura with, say, -10% Speed and -5MA/MD, and then a 10m aura with -25% speed and -10MA/MD. A 10m aura that scales like some spells would fit perfectly: every 30 seconds a unit spends in close combat with the bear they take increasing penalties and then start taking damage after 90 seconds.
Yeah it should also fire anti infantry mines on the floor and have rocket launchers on the side for big targets.
In seriousness they should just fix the derpiness of some big units like it, and make the breath attack able to be use while in melee, and fix the aoe melee attacks if they are really lacking.
Anything else would be just be possible just giant power creep of other similar units in TW Warhammer 2.
For me the only tier list I really want to see is the "Settlement Tower tier list" the ones you build for supplies. It is really hard to tell if you should save for a better one or get extra cheaper ones and each faction is different. The units tier list are cool but not that useful as I can easly judge them by looking at the stats most of the time.
what ive found is that tier 3 and 4 towers are good against large entities and tier 1/2 against small entities with a lot of units. Depends on faction but tier 1/2 usually have a spread and tier 3/4 hurl a super strong bolt that can take out a kislev war bear.
Lol same i want to see that tier list 2
@@ForbiddenFollyFollower like i said, it depends on the race. Khorne for example doesnt shoot arrows
@@M.L.official The Tier 4 Undivided Towers seem really strong. Explosion that does a morale hit, and doesn't hurt friendlies
@@M.L.official With 4 towers, there must be best for infantry and best for monsters, so 2 out of 4 for every single faction but you also need to add the cost to it, we need a tier list to know that and Legend played this game more than anyone so he probably knows it well.
Despite their cost, Streltsi never disappointed me, and I really like to have 4 to 6 of them as my actual frontline with a couple of patriarchs in front of them, their ability to delete any lord coming in range is excellent, and as opposed to other firearm units, they aren't total garbage when they get engaged in melee. However I play in Normal battle difficulty so things might be different from my perspective. Cheers for the rest of the tierlist!
On normal they are okay. The big problem is the AI usually have some kind of fast unit for flanking and altough they can hold their own in melee against those units still they basically stuck in the fight for the majority of the battle and cant shoot. They would be amazing in settlement defense as garrison, bit sadly you dont get them.
That is the thing though, "despite their cost". They are 40% or more expensive upkeep wise then handgunners despite being in the same niche.
I think CA just really needs to lower the upkeep, bring it down to at least 200. They would be so much better if they didn't break the bank.
that’s what i’m saying i ain’t ever been disappointed obvi people gonna say “well they can’t do this or that” but i mean isn’t that the point of getting other units that can do whatever it is? i mean tf
I've been doing a 3 row formation with Armored Sword and shield up front, streltsi in the middle with room to fire between the first rows, and cossars in the back. Then run either Cavalry or sleds to cover the flanks.
Totally agree also playing on normal and this unit is really solid in my experience at least. But for me the tier list would change slightly anyway except for the snow leopard unfortunately
There is also a research that gives the grypon legion 15% extra weapon strength, and a landmark in Praag reduces their upkeep for all armies AFAIK.
put them in Kostaltyn army and they get frenzy also, they got over 100 charge bonus and 96 speed
@@miloradlukic9277 and they still are pretty meh all things considered
@@animewarrior3 disagreed they are good
@@animewarrior3 if you micro them they melt demons this way. Only thing they could have more is mass 900 and models are huge, like double the size of Jade Lancers
That research is either bugged or misleading by the way. Applying to only base damage iirc.
I feel like the warbear sleds are pretty much the war wagons but good this time
I dont know if it would cause the Gryphon Legion to move out of B tier but i do think it is worth mentioning the unique building for them in Praag that makes them a tier 3 unit and also reduces upkeep by 10/20%. I know the tier list mostly focuses on the unit in a vaccum with the lord but unless things are going ass up you tend to get Praag pretty early.
Unlike Erengrad… - any ideas? I am around turn 30-40 and still didn’t got it as Katarina
@@klavicus2276 I'm a Grand Orthodoxy player (haven't played Katarina) but I recommend taking it ASAP for its very high economic value. Upgraded, it can easily provide funds enough to support a second army and then some. Go to war if you have to!
With the orthodoxy I go to war for it immediately after taking my home province. you lose a few supporters attacking a Kislov faction but it's too big of a campaign boost to risk missing out on.
@@klavicus2276 You should military alliance that faction (can't remember the actual name rn) easily, and from there, give them a gift of gold once in a while, and do a couple alliance missions against Throt, and they will confederate easily.
The only thing I'll say is that horse archers are insanely effective at taking minor settlements. I've taken minor settlements with on 4-5 of them, just constantly running between points and capping them before the enemy could respond. It's admittedly a niche, and as soon as a real army appears you have to flee, but its hilarious and does 100% work.
I hope you will also do a hero tier list soon because that video was incredibly helpful!
A thing that bugs me with Little Grom.
Is, the picture, looks like a Mortar
But its a cannon
As I realized that the siege towers of each faction each have towers on every tier that vastly vary in ther effectivness I would be interested in a tier list for towers and barricades for the playable factions.
The ice guard in my opinion is one of the best in the game within the main lords army their upkeep is literally 49/59 gold
Helpful and insightful as always, love how pragmatic your commentary is.
This is just what I needed over dinner! I can't wait to devour these lists.
When I played the prologue I struggled to make use of the dervishes, even on that difficulty, so I definitely learned something during the tutorial. A real shame that the horse units are split between two chains, too. It means the first one is only good for the skirmishers and the hussars. Maybe with enough dlc units they'll move the chains around like in warhammer 2. Always been a fan of fast-moving fortresses and when I picked the war sled in the prologue I was so content with the stats of them. Good bear cavalry stats means no insta-death, and SO MUCH AMMO. hapi :)
I agree with cav being disappointing... But you are on the mark with chasing down armies. I found that weak low level cav is amazing for forcing armies to break faster when engaged and flanked. The cav will chase down a unit that has a chance of getting back in the fight while the unit they initially engaged can move on to the next fight.
Trouble is later there's so much leadership goin' around it stops being effective. Most of the stuff you want to chase off just won't break.
But early game I totally agree getting annoying units to fuck off and stay gone is very handy.
One unit of horse can easily split the enemy army, occasionally include generals chasing them - turned decisive defeats into decisive victories with this tactic
@@TheLightbearing But horse archers are better for that, since kiting 2-3 units around the map is useful, but doing that while damaging those units is moreso
@@yodarolls7838 agreed but they're not part of a settlement roster
Unit isnt worth the slot vs an ice guard but when you have to use them (settlement defence) they definitely make the difference between winning and losing
@@TheLightbearing I'm not going to disagree that the dervishes are useful when you get them in the garrison. I've found horse archers to be useful in secondary armies where I need to manage costs more, so I'm opting for kossar spam, possibly with some armored kossars for tankiness. Ice guard are amazing. It can be hard to recruit them in the early game without paying a prohibitive cost both upfront and in maintenance. Even in Katarin's army, I did my first realm of chaos with only 4 of them due to the price.
I was looking forward to this video! Thank you for another great analysis.
Watching you from Kiev now, this video really helped me a lot during hard times, thanks a lot
Couldn't agree more. Kislev's roster is very well balanced, super versatile and also very fun. Specially the Ice Guard and the War Bears, which are AMAZING. Little Grom also suprised me, I thought a single entity artillery piece would suck, but damn they are well worth 4 empire cannons all on their own!
Thanks for the ranking hope to see the other faction rooster their lists!
not buying the game until theres more updates just watching to support
I'm waiting for the workshop, need my building progression icon III ;7
And absolutely not 2pointsperlvlforlords...
I went into the final battle with nothing but Ice Guard and War Bears, so them being in S tier makes sense to me. A shame about the Winged Lancers and Gryphon Legion being somewhat disappointing: they are so typical Slavic/Kislev.
I distinctly remember having an elemental bear lose a melee fight with a single squad of blue horrors. They also die very often in autoresolve. Also, their ice breath is hugely weird as you mentioned. So glad war bears are rated so high. When I used the heal on a squad at half health (still all 8 bears btw) it immediately healed to nearly full. Insane
For me elemental bears are solid and do their job - they could be better for their tier and price I agree but still solid from my experience same goes to streltsi. Range is still too strong tho and especially tzeentch Protoss shields need to get nerfed anyway
@@klavicus2276 i still run a few of em. They're good for low micro and just blowing up melee, but as you said die real fast to ranged. Idc though, giant bear is fun
With the addition of the outpost alliance mechanic, it could be cool in those videos to hear advice on what allies units it's useful to recruit into your armies, especially for your most likely allies (Empire for Kislev). For example: can Kislev benefice from some outriders or hellstorm rocket battery?
Streltsi can fire over the heads of Dwarf thunderers. and while i havent tested this i can safely assume ogres fire over the heads of streltsi for the ultimate firing line
@@Helvexis1 that's absolutely terrifying to think about
I'm curious to see if lords that bump ranged units would do well with Cathays jezebel units (forgot what they're called)
Impeccable timing, started my first campaign with Kislev yesterday
From a couple multiplayer battles I've seen, the Little Grom is INSANELY accurate, and the cannonball plows through even ranks of ogres. It's amazing watching a line of ogres get deleted and the cannonball sometimes STILL flying through the other side.
By Tzeentch! Ive been waiting for this....
Much love, Legend!
Love this, So helpful. Cathey and Tzeentch next pleaseee
You absolutely need the great weapon kossars to deal with Khorne and Nurgle midgame. You have no other anti-armor at that point. Basically Tzar Guard and Ice Guard are all you're going to need in the long run though. Worth noting: Little Grom are general assassination machines.
Great walkthrough!
Great vid mate! More tier lists for diff factions pls
Just started my second campaign as Skrag and I'm really intrigued to see what units you rate highly. I'm having a great time smashing the Empire at the moment. Leadbelchers absolutely pummel the enemy army as they approach, I had 4 units of Gnoblar trappers rout 2 units of Reiksgard (hilarious) and just your regular Bulls can punch through the enemy lines and then wreak havoc with ranged units and flank/rear charge to win any fights your main line is stuck in. This isn't even touching on Gorgers which are OP from all accounts. Just a good time all round so far, actually more straightforward than my previous Tzeentch campaign but much more micro involved in keeping the lads moving to avoid getting shot up.
tip for the little grom: if you hit a wall from a side angel the cannon ball will bounce off the wall and hit the tower next to it so you basicly use 1 cannon ball to break the wall and a tower in 1 shot
I personally tote around 3 or 4 streltsi to deal with huge threats like Soul Grinders or the big Daemons; they're fairly effective at shutting down Soul Grinders of Tzeentch in the Boris Quest, which is only really where I use them
I swear I've seen universal praise for streltsi so I was a bit surprised too. Plus I'm playing Daemons right now and I went up against a streltsi stack and had to micro ridiculously hard to win. With how weirdly units are moving and positioning right now half the unit will still be shooting while the other half is in melee.
Legend talking about not having to deal with scary large entities early as Kislev gives me nightmares of Skarbrand hard marching to my capital with skull crushers, flesh hounds, and exalted bloodletters
Cats can be very effective in Co-op settlement attacks. They have decent capture weight, are very fast and the fact that they're tiny single entities means you can weave past defenders and get the capturing whichever point you want them to. It's micro intensive, but I don't think any other unit can do what they can when it comes to backline disruption. As actual combat units they're worthless though.
Thanks! Perfect for what I'm looking for
potential idea, a video going over good choices for ally recruitment for the different factions.
Great vid legend. Cathay would be intresting with their ying yang mechanics
Thanks for another great tier list!
Im really looking forward to the magic tierlist
hope cathay vids soon would be nice to see some from you! :)
I would put sreltsi at b or even a tier. I tried to do armies with 6 armored kossars with shields and 5 streltsi and checkerboard them. It does wonders. I know that missile damage of streltsi is approximately the same as regular kossars but for some reason I feel that streltsi do work better even against norska armies. It might be accuracy or just the fact that they always target first row of infantry (thus kinda slowing down the charge). Oh, and they are definetly better against stonehornsł
Yes, Norsca and Ogres, but not Deamons.
Id say its a stretch to put them B teir, id expect them to do much better for their costs and teir.
An army of tzar gaurd with shields with some ice gaurd will out perform them and can be much cheaper, and as other have said, against daemons they just dont do nearly as well.
I'd place them at B-tier. I can see a case for them being in C in Realm of Chaos, but in Immortal Empires I'd def place them in B-tier.
Yes on the stonehorns, but I feel like legends right, that you're basically jumping through hoops at that point where the Bear Cav do the job much better.
They're alright but they're way too expensive, they should be 200 upkeep I think
Elemental Bears are great for creating a giant tarpit/blob of enemies that you the destroy using Heart of Winter and ranged fire. They have a lot of durability, and a Patriarch on a War Bear mount for healing helps them stay in the fight even longer.
You don't need a lot of them. Send a single Elemental Bear running out ahead of your army and have it charge directly into the enemy's center. The AI will blob it. Cast Heart of Winter, and start firing with your ranged units. Then hit them with Hawks of Miska for the de-buff to leadership. The enemy center will collapse under the damage caused by spells and ranged fire, and the rest of the battle is just clean up.
Elemental Bears are not a versatile unit. They have only one trick, tarpitting, but it's a battle winning trick.
I find the heavy war sled excellent for small settlement sieges, as their mass allows them to break straight through the enemy and into the capture point, while heroes / lords on bears get stuck. They are also great tanks where I just run them up and down along my archer line, causing the incoming infantry to attack them instead of the archers. Also easy for them to get in range of a patriarch for heals if needed.
May I suggest in the friendliest of ways, knowing also the editing factor that you dislike... but perhaps adding a unit card (with stats etc) to the margin while youre talking of the unit in question would be a nice touch? Loving your work anyhow \o/
greetings from switzerland. very nice video. i would love too see your opinion about other troop rosters
Snow Leopard is more of a multiplayer unit, good for hunting casters and aiding well in single entity combat for a relatively small price.
when I put them against single entity monsters (since they are supposed to be anti large) they can’t dish out enough dmg and flee quite soon… at least in my experience. They are really fast and I would LOVE to see them get changed in a positive way but currently they are totally underwhelming… wish they would give them the role like either sabretusk pack of Ogres (lions of high elves) or a skinwolf hero (or skinwolf pack). Being a pack would be already way better imo
@@klavicus2276 A pack would be cool, they seem pretty small for a monster.
@Klavicus bit late. But snow leopards are used to support another SE/unit fighting large things.
Good effort legend. Tzar guard are nails
I would move heavy sled down one because their building has to be in a large settlement slot while the light sled can be built in a small settlement slot and I would move the elemental bear up one with asterisk fun factor only, I just find they are super entertaining alongside war bears and groms as Boris doing bear themed play.
The elemental bears are also useful for the final battle.
@@shyvini4026 yea but the final battle is a joke
I was really struggling with Kislev and especially the new mechanics in TW3; in addition to the Kislev lores of magic feeling so weak so thanks for this!
Lore of Ice is quite underwhelming to be Frank.
Tempest is surprisingly decent , though I personally think they should get magical attack imbuements
Nice list dude
Playing the Kislev MP campaign, I had pretty good success with using Kostaltyn in an elemental bear doomstack (2 groms, 2 patriarchs, 1 tempest maiden, kostaltyn, 14 bears). With Kostaltyn's Frenzy they do pretty well. Haven't tried them in a single player Kislev campaign yet, though.
Great tier list Legend. It's shocking how bad the Horse Devishers and Frost Bear are!
Thanks for this, I’m new to this game so found it useful!.
Kislev will be my 2nd choice through the campaign. Will you be doing one for Tzeentch?
I love the pink horrors with chosen in front for defence. Haven’t got very far yet through the campaign though.
Regarding frontline units, it's worth noting that armored kossars can be recruited in 1 turn, but tzar guard take 2. I've been playing normal battle difficulty for now, so maybe they won't hold up as well in VH, but for now I gravitate more toward the armored kossars due to their ease of recruitment. Definitely agree about shields over great weapons, though.
Looking forward to the Tzeentch one, lots to talk about there
It depends how you play them. I feel that if you have a lot of ranged units going for the shotgun FOTS where you have ranged units that hold the line and cross fire, the leopard is pretty good because it can rush in to support your hybrid infantry vs large without blocking shots.
Mostly agree! 1) a mix of Kossars is very good. Hybrid units are awesome. 2) Dervishes are good for taking settlement points. After time, I transition to missile cav 3) Sleds win battles 4) I use Hussars as hammer to anvils 5) I don't use TzarGuard but Ice Guard are extremely effective (slowed enemy is key).
I think that Praag makes really good Winged Hussar buffs and tech tree makes Sleds even better. I also don't consider using El. Bear.
I wish that Streltsi were more viable! They are good in theory, but don't have a need for them.
Can’t wait to see the lists for nurgle and tzeentch. Nurgle Bc I wonder what legends thoughts are on the slow melee army and tzeentch bc I want to know how he ranks the different flamers. In my experience the regular tier 3 flamers seem to be way more effective than the exalted or burning chariot
good tierlist ! can't wait for Slaanesh one .
after many patches/years later I would expect a revisit on all tier lists for Warhammer 3
Would like to see you do a demons of chaos tier list on what you shouldn’t and should recruit
Please a video of Little grom Doomstack. That would be an epic video.
wait, you were at 400 subs last month. what happened bro? did you use tzeentch's mechanics? lol. Keep up the great work my guy.
I appreciate these tier-lists a LOT
But in this case i can't agree with the placement of the Streltsi
I like to put 3-4 of them in my armies
Good Unit for Lordsniping and for killing Soulgrinders
also useful when going up against Khorne armies with the Chaos Warriors and when fighting Ogres
Definitely nothing for a doomstack of any kind, but in a balanced unit very good, especially if Iceguards aren't really available yet
And they are really useful to just opliterate the Vamire Counts in the early game
Yeah in my games khorne spamed chaos warriors and had very little demons in his armies so I needed some sort of armour piercing. I also like how they dont just get destroyed in melee
Yeah Streltsi should be B-tier, not C-tier. Their main issue is upkeep cost, it's too high.
On the flipside they got better armour and armour piercing than Ice Guard and are recruited in 1 turn.
Yeah but legend usually never use balanced armies. He prefer to use spam cheap armies
Strelsi are just too expensive to afford early in the campaign, and mid-late you either want more armies to cover your expanding territory's many open gaps or you want "S" tier units.
There are reasons to recruit strelsi, but they're situations like, you really need as strong an army as you can as *fast* as you can in a particular location that has access to strelsi, in which case spending a turn recruiting e.g., 4 strelsi is better than spending two turns recruiting 4 ice guard or 8 kossars. Or something like, you need the increased power in your army that replacing kossars with strelsi brings but not so much extra power that it makes sense to recruit a whole 'nother army of kossars. Situational stuff like that. So it has its spot and there are reasons to recruit them occasionally, but I've gone through campaigns where I've recruited 0 and not regretted it.
@@MrCattlehunter "Campaigns"? Game is out for like a week. You must be a beast, had early access or your campaigns last like 50 turns lol.
problem i ran into my kislev campaign i ended up with so many powerful enemies (skrag to the south and tzeench to the north especially, kairos conquered most of the north in my campaign and sent unending soulgrinder doomstacks at me) i had to field so many armies just to defend my frontier i couldn't afford much over tier 3. so many factions would march across the map just to attack me. also is it really viable to put 3 ice witches in one army? there doesn't seem to be many ways to increase their capacity i think i ended up with just 5.
but overall i feel like the tier list is on point
This was my first campaign for TW3, and I built elemental bear doom stack with just about as much boost as I could manage in Todd’s army. It was extremely underwhelming and I was walking out of fights barely scraping by. So I feel like that’s a good place for them!
Unfortunate!
Cathay unit tier list next :D
I would argue with the use of armoured kossars who are a good options if you optimise your growth and economy before military buildings. You have to wait for tzar guard for a bit and having like 4-6 armoured kossars as a frontline for a kossar stack is very costeffective for b armies in mid game.
Another argument is for streltsy who are a must if you are planning to invade the empire instead of trade+auxilaries. I personally like to take over ostland (little kislev kek) for an extra money province and empire is bad at managing their chaos portals which just leaves you surrounded. And empire units aren't really something you want outside of allying reikland for steamtanks and canons which aren't really that needed when you are under pressure. So if you want to taccle the south early on, streltsy are very welcome to deal with all the greatswords. They are also good against dwarfs and I think the vampire counts melt quicker to streltsy than their double weight in cossars but thats a feeling.
Im looking forward to how youll do Daemons. Will Undivided get its own tier list, as they function kinda differently compared to the monogods?
Streltzi are the things you hire early on when dealing with the likes of Azazel and other flying lords, as they'll shred them with their bullets. Replacing them with Ice guard is normally the aim for the endgame armies
I did entire doomstacks of just them and melted anything that came if your set them up to where they’re all firing and checkered to kite
Quite happy, i wasn't that wrong in my campaign, the most notable error i did is i thought, and I still think that Strelsi are a A or B Tier unit, espacially against Ogre that are armored..., or fast monsters that dodges arrows. they can be recruit by one turn with a Tier III Praag (alongside the Armored Kossars) and has quite good staying powers. In my low tier armies i always try to put in 3/4 Strelsi, i'v found them quite good !
good video...much appreciated
Love these lists!
cant wait to see the cathay tier list
I use leopards with Katerine, the stalk makes getting them in behind and flanks good, they shred gorebeast chariots before the AI can react. kinda my anti flanker unit, BUT you gotta use like 3 or more of them in a little pack, on their own they are kinda underwhelming
Love these - where are the other factions? 👀
9:59 I already knew you were going to rank them as D tier, but when you couldn't even remember their name I went from pretty sure to absolutely sure lol.
My generalist army build so far has been 3 Armored Kossars (shield) and 2 Streltsy as the frontline, 4 Ice Guard Swords and 2 Ice Guard Glaives as backline, 2 Little Groms behind that, 2 Heavy Sleds, and one big old Elemental Bear. Finally the commander and a caster (or a caster and patriarch depending). Its definitely not perfect and I have to agree with a lot of your rankings but I think I'm going to stick with this build for a bit longer.
I enjoy having a frontline and backline with ranged, so although Tsar's guard would make the frontline hold longer, most battles the enemy is sufficiently weakened by ranged that they don't hold for long on the frontline. The streltsy's addition of armor piercing and more range than the Armored Kossars makes them complement each other well. The streltsy don't do as well in protracted melee, but the AP is a nice contibution in a army that doesn't have a lot of AP to go around. The 4/2 ice guard mix can definitely be altered depending on the amount of anti-large vs anti-infantry I need, but so far its a good mix. I personally like the heavier war sleds because although they're not as fast, I do use them frequently to charge already engaged enemies in the rear, and the extra armor does help their survivability. Most times they get caught by faster enemies they usually end up shooting there way out just fine with minimal damage. Finally although I agree that generally the Ice Bear's utility isn't massive, I find it a good choice for wading into where the melee is thickest and tanking damage, inspiring terror, and just generally being a big icy thorn in the enemy's side. Although likely the least useful it does have a certain cool factor (pun intended)
would really enjoy Ogres next ^^ struggling to find a good army comp cause ranged units just feel off and can cause huge friendly fire
Lines up pretty well with my VH/VH experience. I just wish Kislev(Katarin)'s position wasn't so horrid to play. I love their roster and building schemes.
I think the starting position would be a lot more entertainingly difficult if you didn't have to also worry about the rift mechanic, lol.
Her start is awful
The one legendary i completed was by just having praag and kislev bc I couldn’t hold anything else and deal with rift spam
I'm not an expert, but I personally would put Armored Kossars 1 tier higher. They're great as line holders and having an infantry unit that can also shoot is great. I have gotten a lot of mileage from them by slowing units down enemies with an ice wizard while my front line and back line shred enemy units to pieces with ranged fire.
I absolutely love the Ice Guards range attack animation.
Really wish Kislev had wolf units too, wargs or dire wolves would of been cool :(
Also i'd put the armoured kossars in c not b, i feel like they don't do that great of a job for what they're meant to be. I'd get Kossars and Armoured Kossars with shields almost exclusively for a starting early army, maybe some mounted bows to skirmish better and no more than a couple spear Kossars to act as a spearmen if ever needed but otherwise always as archers.
What's the plan going to be when WH3's dlcs are finished and the new units added? Are you going to revise each faction's list or just make a roundup tierlist to cover everything that wasn't covered originally?
Was hopeing for khorne or Cathay but awesome work
Im in love with the Ice guards! Put some Tzar guard in front of them and they will snipe anything
I somewhat understand what you mean about the elemental bears being kinda derpy, or whatever, but i will say ive seen them rack up 500+ kills and insane amounts of damage in several battles and they've played a really pivotal role in quite a few stacks that I have put together. Hard to control but once you get the hang of it they can be extremely useful despite the upkeep cost. It also helps to only recruit them in armies led by Lords of a higher level with the "Quartermaster" perk maxed out and the "Feared And Renown" perk adding up to a nice reduction of almost a quarter of your armies upkeep. I know it's "just like... my opinion, man", but i would place them in A or B at the VERY least. But yea snow leopards are trash, which is unfortunate considering how dope the model they made for them is. Summoned once super handy though.
Nah the elemental bears are trash, my first campaign was with nurgle, Katarina would bring 4 elemental bears at once and they would literally die to a nurgling blob. Seriously just blob in a forest so it blocks most the arrows and debunks the bears and the nurglings would kick their teeth in.
At last!!!!! More tierlists from tierlist God!)
I'd love to see you tackle a tier list of, like, allied units. You can only have 4 per army and it can help you cover certain weaknesses in your roster, which makes for an interesting personal objective. Trying to find an allied faction that compliments your army the most.
You could wait til the Mortal Empire campaign of course, but I'd be interested in your take of best combos while the roster is still limited, just to get your thoughts on allied units out of the way.
Yeah, keep it simple. Just a "These 4 units work best with *____* because they cover this, this, and this." The more we see a unit feature in combos the more we now just how awesome they are. If he's doing lists now then he's not worried about mortal empires or dlc so let's give him all the list ideas we can.
I’ve been arranging four streltsi (or however you spell it) in front of four kossars, who are in front of four kassars with spears to protect from cavalry running int my backside. Probably not optimal but I am stupid and it works.
Might be derpy for you but my Bear Elemental Misha was carrying and tanking for my Konstaltyn campaing hard at the start. Still having my rank 9 pet around.
whenever i defend, i find a choke point and pour all my tsar guard, and dervishes into the front line, the armored kossars in the second line a little bit on the hills so they can fire, and all my archers in the back. basically i just hold out until i win. When up against khorne, i put a dervishes in the back so it can kill off the bloodletters that comes out of the portal into my archers. Also winged lancers are great for monstrous units like spawns of nurgle. I had it pit against full health spawns of nurgle and somehow won overwhelmingly.
I've been playing Kislev in a co-op game with friends and I would have to agree with the low tier units where they're at. Also I started with Kostaltyn and his bear. You are spot on about him getting stuck in melee and not really being as effective as you might think when looking at it on paper. It's always so helpful to see how you rank these. Thank you!
can't wait for redone tierlists for game 1 and 2 factions after the game is fully done