I have far mor admiration for someone who admits they’ve been wrong every time, than for someone who’s been right every time and always has to be. Great part one tutorial on the science behind proper staking. I’ve learned a lot here. And I’m looking forward to part two.
If you told me that I would watch an entire video on stakes, I would have never believed you. But this was interesting, well presented, and informative. I not only watched it, I enjoyed it! Thank you for sharing this!
The best teacher is always studying and will always admit when they are wrong. Much admiration for you Dave I hope to one day be able to learn under your tutelage
🎉🎉🎉 Most folks aren't "man enough" to admit they were wrong. The sign of a great teacher and a great man is one who learns from everyone and one who learns from their own mistakes. Thanks Professor Dave!🎉🎉🎉
Thank you David sir for correcting what I have always done. I have always driven stakes in at a 45° angle and it rarely holds long term but like you said most people have been taught the wrong way. I will now try the 90° or the 15 to 20° next time. Thank you for all you teach us and most of all Thank God he gave you a wise mind and great heart
love these classroom style deep dives. having a deeper understanding of why we do things a certain way is better than just being shown how to do something, in my opinion. then we can adapt that understanding to the different situations.
Hey Dave, props for not just assuming you're right and learn more to help us learn more. I always put stakes in perpendicular to the line, not anymore. This makes so much sense I almost feel ashamed for doing it that way for so long. If you could also talk a bit about proper snow ankers as well, that would be very helpfull. Thanks
i learned this years ago when i was getting my ifmga guide license. using deadmans and snow stakes to build anchors, same principals apply when staking down ur tent because u dont want it breaking free on an exposed mtn when theres 50 plus mph winds. great video brotha.
When I was in the Boy Scouts (over 50 years ago), at summer camp we used to sleep in Military style tents (no floor in the tent) We had two beds in each tent. We were instructed to bring 2x2 poles 4' long from our scout master. Basically, just ripping a 2x4 in half. We were the largest troup in the district and the other troups used to laugh at us using 4' 2x2s as stakes. These 2x2s also doubled and corner posts in the tents. The troup would bring an auger to drill into the ground to bury the 2x2 at least half way. The tent tieouts whould then be tied to these long stakes. Everyone laughed at us for doing this. One summer, a tornado went through the camp. Every troup in camp had every tent blown down. Our troop? We lost 2 of 24 tents. 22 tents were unaffected. The following year, more troups were using our method.
Thanks for this brilliant explanation of stake-guide line geometry. I have been doing it wrong for most of my life. It has worked (mostly), but everything you said reminded me that I knew something wasn't quite right. But, I was taught to angle my stakes so, I just did it trusting those before me. Thanks for questioning the accepted norms and taking the time to think it through and explain it!
I had heard this before about the driving stakes in vertical from a guy at Davis tent but this was the just time it was explained in a way that made sense thanks again for sharing this
My Grandfather who was a WW2 vet taught me to use a shovel as a tent stake. He served in the Italian campaign and stated they were taught to use the shovel as a steak due to the ground they had to set up in over there. He used that method on the sand bars of the White River when I was growing up. But the T handle short shovels we had looked more like a WW 1 issue shovels? Probably bought later as cheep surplus, I still have one of his I will never part with. He was fond of those Army Shovels, I guess I would be too if I had ever had artillery shells lobbed my way... Looking forward to your next video on this topic.
I appreciate that Dave can admit he's been teaching something so basic wrong, then do a deep dive into explaining a better way. I also have been doing it with stake at 90deg to line and neglecting the soil friction part of the equation. I look forward to trying this Friday!
Well done sir. Thanks for sharing! I have to admit, with all due respect, it always struck me funny to watch you drive your stakes at that 45 degree angle. I've always had much better luck with my pitches, driving them in at around 15 degrees... Again, thanks much for the AMAZING tutorial!!!
Dave, I was glad to see you cover this topic. I am not one to criticize other people's methods of doing things. We all have our own ways. I have been a fan of yours all the way back to "Dual Survival." You definitely know what you are doing young man. On the tent/ tarp stakes, I learned many years ago to avoid a 45 degree angle. After having that fail on me a few times I learned to not go that steep unless I had a really long stake. As you said, "depending on soil type and makeup," I generally put mine in between 10 and 20 degrees with 15 being optimal. That has served me well for years. There have been times I had to pile rocks around or on my stakes. In Iraq we had to tie our guy lines to sand bags and pile more sand bags on top. But that's not something we would likely run into here in the states. Anyway love you videos. Keep them coming.
I'm going to do some more research on this. I don't hear you mention anything about leverage on this vid. The force on the stake is not being exerted across the whole stake but at the end, making a lever pt at the top of the soil, no?
Should do or add to next video, a part about guy lines and when to use shock cord and/or tattletales, guy line tension and line angles for different conditions.
I can see it makes sense on the board. Think you could create a demonstration? Say, a pull test against two identical stake situations, the only difference being this lesson?
You never cease to amaze me with your ingenuity and adaptiveness. Your explanations and illustrations did make it much more clear to me, and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for all you do and share with us!
When I worked at a camp that set up circus tents for gymnastics training the stakes were always put pretty much straight down. I can't believe I never put that system of staking to camp setups. Thanks for sharing and unlocking a memory.
I’ve always staked my tents just slightly inward with the widest and longest stakes I can manage. It works well without having to evaluate my guy line angles much. This has held up well for me in high wind conditions where I live and camp.
its crazy ive been watching Dave off and on for years . i remember him teaching us how to make crossbow traps and other fun things. he sure has come along way .
Wow, this was an eye opener! Dave just gave a class in stakeology! I've been doing it wrong all my life too! Goes to show you something what is perceived (angling a stake is better) isn't always the best way based on what is actually going on. The shovel analogy is what helped me really understand it. Can't wait to explain this to my brothers next time we're all setting up tents. Dave is going to make me sound smart!
I have to admit, I wasn't convinced, but when you used that shovel analogy that sealed the deal. Thanks for sharing, I'll be changing my teachings too. 👍
Well, a whole bunch of us has been wrong for a long time!!! Heck I was taught as a kid in Cub Scouts to drive them in at an angle! This was an amazing video and talk about a learning curve! It makes perfect sense!!! Appreciate it Dave
I'm not sure at what point peoples eyes started glazing over from the information 😂. I've worked in the building trades all my life and while explaining similar situations I've seen that glaze. Angles are critical for strength in buildings and we have codes that hold up to minimum/maximum parameters. I think you just laid down the basic code for tent stakes. GREAT VIDEO as always!
I always put my tent stakes at 30-45 degrees into the ground and I thought this was the correct way to do it. Even read into your Bushcraft 101 book about the angle. But tomorrow I am going into the bush for 3 days with my buddies and I will try the 90 degree angle instead of the 45. Let's see how it goes. Where I will be camping is an open area outside the forest (50m where the forrest begins) so I expect some winds. Let's see. Thank you Dave, I always love when you show some mathematics into your videos (mechanical engineer here😅).
Very informative, and it lines up with what we teach. For pioneering structures, by virtue of their size, and that utilize 24 to 30-inch pioneering stakes that have no notches or tie offs, we need to create a 20º angle to assure the guy-line doesn't shift along the stake or actually slip off.
I did the vast majority of my tenting in western Washington state where, more often than not, the soils have a deep layer of loosely compacted duff in the top 2"-12" of the soil before compacted glacial till mixed with clays can be reached by an ordinary length tent stake. I often employed a deadman on my tent stakes, and once the stake was buried sufficiently deep enough, I always searched for a large rock(s) to place on top of each stake's burial site. Sometimes if the weather was good, no rain or high winds, then I would just deadman the stake on top of the soil's surface and use downed logs and or large rocks to hold the 4 corners of the tent in position.
Wow, as a physics teacher, that should have been obvious to me! Decades of habit, however, of putting the stake in at an angle, and I never stopped to think it through.
Thank you! I also assumed so far putting in stakes with a 45° angle would be best. The shovel analogy was very helpful to understand it is not. Maybe you could demonstrate the difference by putting increasing amounts of weight on differently angled stakes. Perhaps stake out lines running over posts driven into the ground with buckets hanging at the ends of the lines. Then fill the buckets with water for example until the stakes are pulled out and then compare the difference of water required for the different stake angles.
David.... My name is David.... Nice to talk to you David! I'm a huge fan of the orange screws as stakes... Yes, they're big and bulky but I got room in the pack that they're in... Also something to keep in mind... No need for a mallet or hammer. Anyways, just my favorite STRONG and super durable stakes. They held my red nose pitbull who would run at full sprint and it never broke. I love your videos and also, I love that you cauterized your laceration on DUEL SURVIVAL... That was informative AND badass! Love you brother and God bless!
Thanks for the tutorial. I have been doing it wrong also. Might explain why my tent blew over in a torrential rain and windstorm as a Boy Scout in the 1960's.
I have never learned so much while getting so hungry at the same time. I kept hearing steak for some reason... Great information, definitely gonna work with this and educate everyone I know! Keep up the great work man!
I have never seen someone drive a stake into the ground at 90degrees/straight up and down. I always thought up and down was best but I did not know why. All videos show always doing it at an angle, although I am not sure as to why. I am guessing it gives more surface area/friction at the top of the stake? Love David Canterbury videos. Always learn something. Great job of educating and informing us that you made mistakes and when you learned the best/right way, you come and show us. Where and when did you learn this? Thank you for sharing and please keep it up.
Hi Dave - Great video. Thank you. I think a lot of people in the past have used a 45 degree angle on the stake to avoid the the possibility of the line slipping off the top of the stake. Can you please address that? How to be sure your line is properly secured to a stake driven vertically.
Somewhere online there's a long-running UK-based discussion about exactly this, with the physics-based conclusion being the same as yours: in reasonably firm soil* staking vertically gives better hold than staking at 45 degrees. Like many others I found this very (as in, completely) counter-intuitive until someone clarified it by asking how you would drive a stake into the ground to give it maximum horizontal stability (ie, forget the tent/tarp guylines for a moment, just concentrate on planting that peg as firmly as possible against lateral forces). Whatever the direction of lateral pull, the answer is you would drive it in vertically, because that that gives you the greatest soil *compression* (your soil-to-soil friction) force to keep your stake in place, plus the stake-to-soil friction. Given most of the forces acting on a stake are lateral, even with a 45 degree guyline, vertical is the way to go. And interestingly also, creates the least practical lever forces around the base of the stake.
Thanks for verification of what I've been doing for 50 years. Lol I've just never been able to explain it that way to others. I live in Ohio and have had my share of rain camps with wind and knowing this has saved my camp as others pulled out over night because of failures. Yes 4 camps set up and in the morning one still stands it happens. Just for such reasons. Thank you for showing this it's more important than people think in bad weather.
A very small detail, but at 16:26, you want the vertical height and the horizontal distance to be the same. The length of the tarp in this diagram should be the longest dimension to ensure 45°.
David, when I first learned to stake a tarp, I believe if was from one of the earlier books by Bradford Angier or Calvin Rustrum which recommended driving the stake straight into the ground. Subsequently I relearned to drive the stake in at an angle from other authors. I've been confused since. Thanks for clearing this up once and for all.
I staked out my pathfinder tarp as and experiment prior to tropic storm Debby. Plowpoint attached to a pecan tree. Surplus army stakes with very short bank line attachments. Tons of wind 25 plus inches of rain. Tarps still standing in SC lowcountry silt.
but in the 45 degree example, the force of the line is pulling the stake the stake portion underground is going against 130 degrees of soil. I really love the detail put into this, but it seems like the vast majority of the 135 soil was ignored and only the 45 degree soil was explained. I'm going to have to try this at home to test this new theory, which I've never heard either, so props to giving this a shot!
Was wondering if the guy line, being affixed to the head of the stake, doesn't it place a rotational force on the stake, where it wants to rotate the head of the stake in the direction of the guy line, while the tail of the stake wants to rotate away from the guy line? The head end of the stake is in looser surface soil and being pulled towards the guy line, while the tail end of the stake is in denser soil, less able to move. So the guy line force will tend to bend the head of the stake towards the guy line in the loose surface soil, and that bending moment will tend to force the tail of the stake away from the guy line to keep the stake straight, resisting the bending moment. Could be completely wrong in this, just wanted to raise the issue, since if there was rotational force on the stake, the tail end of the stake would have more soil-to-soil friction as it tried to rotate deeper.
Saw the title, figured I had something new to learn, wasn’t disappointed. Thanks for bringing this to light, could be high stakes…. Appreciate the years, hopefully y’all appreciate the joke haha Shalom!
not totally convinced on the physics. I think you should do comparisons of each scenario ans measure the pulling force it takes to failure of the stake.
In sandy soil you can move back from your anchor stake and drive a support stake. It’ll go in vertical straight. Tying the top of it to the top of your anchor stake seems to keep it all from giving any at all. Takes about 2’ extra of paracord. That cord will hug the ground and doesn’t seem to cause any trouble.
Wow! I've been doing it wrong for decades too! 😂 So it's seems the only time you would angle the stake into the ground is when the guy line angle is steep...that way you're utilizing more soil to soil friction. There are scenarios where you have to stake out close to your shelter and the guy lines are around 70° angle to the ground...usually too big of a tent in a small area. Thanks for a great video and food for thought about a subject rarely discussed...Bravo!
Ive been doing it 45' degrees my whole 55 years...never lost a stake..however seems there are still things to learn here...ill do it this way now on...only because its Mr Canterbury telling me...anyone else i would dismiss as waffle merchants...thanks for reminding me i dont know it all...
Well I'll be damned, I was taught the wrong way to put a stake in all the way back in the Boy Scouts. Thanks for the clarification, I'm not going to take a speed square with me the next time I go camping but guesstimation should work.
I've been hicking/camping for a decade or so and have always laid my 1 foot aluminum stakes parallel to the ground about six inches below grade and a truckers hitch to tarp. Stake laid down next to undisturbed ground with backfill pounded tight. Sorta like sand/snow anchors.
Thank you for your views and your support , Always a Student! Much of the research for this video came from an article by Slower Hiking.
Nice to see someone as knowledgeable as David admit when he was wrong about something. Great breakdown of staking and the related geometry/physics.
I have far mor admiration for someone who admits they’ve been wrong every time, than for someone who’s been right every time and always has to be.
Great part one tutorial on the science behind proper staking. I’ve learned a lot here. And I’m looking forward to part two.
If you told me that I would watch an entire video on stakes, I would have never believed you. But this was interesting, well presented, and informative. I not only watched it, I enjoyed it! Thank you for sharing this!
The best teacher is always studying and will always admit when they are wrong. Much admiration for you Dave I hope to one day be able to learn under your tutelage
🎉🎉🎉 Most folks aren't "man enough" to admit they were wrong. The sign of a great teacher and a great man is one who learns from everyone and one who learns from their own mistakes. Thanks Professor Dave!🎉🎉🎉
This is why I love you. Watching your mentality change over the years, one of the most humble people I've ever followed.
Someone commented earlier about “Always a Student” that only works when a teacher that communicates. Lesson learned today!
Wow, who would think our high school geometry would come in handy for putting up a tarp! Very good explanation Dave, we are always learning.
Thank you David sir for correcting what I have always done. I have always driven stakes in at a 45° angle and it rarely holds long term but like you said most people have been taught the wrong way. I will now try the 90° or the 15 to 20° next time. Thank you for all you teach us and most of all Thank God he gave you a wise mind and great heart
love these classroom style deep dives. having a deeper understanding of why we do things a certain way is better than just being shown how to do something, in my opinion. then we can adapt that understanding to the different situations.
This makes things so much simpler. Thank you for your work and effort to KISS, staking down.
Hey Dave, props for not just assuming you're right and learn more to help us learn more. I always put stakes in perpendicular to the line, not anymore. This makes so much sense I almost feel ashamed for doing it that way for so long. If you could also talk a bit about proper snow ankers as well, that would be very helpfull. Thanks
Good analogy with the shovel.
i learned this years ago when i was getting my ifmga guide license. using deadmans and snow stakes to build anchors, same principals apply when staking down ur tent because u dont want it breaking free on an exposed mtn when theres 50 plus mph winds. great video brotha.
Wow, this is great. I have never seen anyone do it like this or teach this. Now I can't wait to go camping to use what I learned. Thanks Dave.
When I was in the Boy Scouts (over 50 years ago), at summer camp we used to sleep in Military style tents (no floor in the tent) We had two beds in each tent. We were instructed to bring 2x2 poles 4' long from our scout master. Basically, just ripping a 2x4 in half. We were the largest troup in the district and the other troups used to laugh at us using 4' 2x2s as stakes. These 2x2s also doubled and corner posts in the tents. The troup would bring an auger to drill into the ground to bury the 2x2 at least half way. The tent tieouts whould then be tied to these long stakes. Everyone laughed at us for doing this. One summer, a tornado went through the camp. Every troup in camp had every tent blown down. Our troop? We lost 2 of 24 tents. 22 tents were unaffected. The following year, more troups were using our method.
Thanks for this brilliant explanation of stake-guide line geometry. I have been doing it wrong for most of my life. It has worked (mostly), but everything you said reminded me that I knew something wasn't quite right. But, I was taught to angle my stakes so, I just did it trusting those before me. Thanks for questioning the accepted norms and taking the time to think it through and explain it!
I had heard this before about the driving stakes in vertical from a guy at Davis tent but this was the just time it was explained in a way that made sense thanks again for sharing this
My Grandfather who was a WW2 vet taught me to use a shovel as a tent stake. He served in the Italian campaign and stated they were taught to use the shovel as a steak due to the ground they had to set up in over there. He used that method on the sand bars of the White River when I was growing up. But the T handle short shovels we had looked more like a WW 1 issue shovels? Probably bought later as cheep surplus, I still have one of his I will never part with. He was fond of those Army Shovels, I guess I would be too if I had ever had artillery shells lobbed my way... Looking forward to your next video on this topic.
I appreciate that Dave can admit he's been teaching something so basic wrong, then do a deep dive into explaining a better way. I also have been doing it with stake at 90deg to line and neglecting the soil friction part of the equation. I look forward to trying this Friday!
Well done sir. Thanks for sharing! I have to admit, with all due respect, it always struck me funny to watch you drive your stakes at that 45 degree angle. I've always had much better luck with my pitches, driving them in at around 15 degrees... Again, thanks much for the AMAZING tutorial!!!
Dave, I was glad to see you cover this topic. I am not one to criticize other people's methods of doing things. We all have our own ways. I have been a fan of yours all the way back to "Dual Survival." You definitely know what you are doing young man. On the tent/ tarp stakes, I learned many years ago to avoid a 45 degree angle. After having that fail on me a few times I learned to not go that steep unless I had a really long stake. As you said, "depending on soil type and makeup," I generally put mine in between 10 and 20 degrees with 15 being optimal. That has served me well for years. There have been times I had to pile rocks around or on my stakes. In Iraq we had to tie our guy lines to sand bags and pile more sand bags on top. But that's not something we would likely run into here in the states. Anyway love you videos. Keep them coming.
I'm going to do some more research on this. I don't hear you mention anything about leverage on this vid. The force on the stake is not being exerted across the whole stake but at the end, making a lever pt at the top of the soil, no?
Yes we will speak to this tomorrow in reference to driving stakes properly
Should do or add to next video, a part about guy lines and when to use shock cord and/or tattletales, guy line tension and line angles for different conditions.
I can see it makes sense on the board. Think you could create a demonstration? Say, a pull test against two identical stake situations, the only difference being this lesson?
You never cease to amaze me with your ingenuity and adaptiveness. Your explanations and illustrations did make it much more clear to me, and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for all you do and share with us!
Kudos to Dave for all the hard work it took to create this video with all the return to a clean blackboard shots.
Ive heard both suggestions over the years, vertical or angled. But nobody ever gave a reason for either one!
Glad to see an explanation.
When I worked at a camp that set up circus tents for gymnastics training the stakes were always put pretty much straight down. I can't believe I never put that system of staking to camp setups. Thanks for sharing and unlocking a memory.
Takes a lot of humility for one to admit they were wrong about an aspect of their profession. Respect 💯
I’ve always staked my tents just slightly inward with the widest and longest stakes I can manage. It works well without having to evaluate my guy line angles much. This has held up well for me in high wind conditions where I live and camp.
its crazy ive been watching Dave off and on for years . i remember him teaching us how to make crossbow traps and other fun things. he sure has come along way .
This made a TON of sense to me. Thank you for that info!
Wow, this was an eye opener! Dave just gave a class in stakeology! I've been doing it wrong all my life too! Goes to show you something what is perceived (angling a stake is better) isn't always the best way based on what is actually going on. The shovel analogy is what helped me really understand it. Can't wait to explain this to my brothers next time we're all setting up tents. Dave is going to make me sound smart!
Everytime I watch one of your videos im stillamazed at your impeccable presentation, its second to none
I have to admit, I wasn't convinced, but when you used that shovel analogy that sealed the deal. Thanks for sharing, I'll be changing my teachings too. 👍
I can’t believe I didn’t catch on to this every time my stakes would come up after my tarp would catch some wind. Time to change it up. Thanks Dave 😊
Well, a whole bunch of us has been wrong for a long time!!! Heck I was taught as a kid in Cub Scouts to drive them in at an angle! This was an amazing video and talk about a learning curve! It makes perfect sense!!! Appreciate it Dave
I don’t think anyone has ever covered this before. Thank you for the information.
Respect for your honesty and humility to learn new things 👍🏻
Always been told 10-15°, never did understand the details of why. This explains it well!
Hi, my name is Dan. I have been wrong my entire life. Wow....I feel much better! Excellent teaching and I'm looking forward to part 2! Thx Dave!
I'm not sure at what point peoples eyes started glazing over from the information 😂. I've worked in the building trades all my life and while explaining similar situations I've seen that glaze. Angles are critical for strength in buildings and we have codes that hold up to minimum/maximum parameters. I think you just laid down the basic code for tent stakes. GREAT VIDEO as always!
Yes, you've changed my thinking on this. It is an important distinction.
Thanks Dave.
Great video! I've been doing it wrong my whole life too. This makes a lot more sense to me.
I always put my tent stakes at 30-45 degrees into the ground and I thought this was the correct way to do it. Even read into your Bushcraft 101 book about the angle. But tomorrow I am going into the bush for 3 days with my buddies and I will try the 90 degree angle instead of the 45. Let's see how it goes. Where I will be camping is an open area outside the forest (50m where the forrest begins) so I expect some winds. Let's see. Thank you Dave, I always love when you show some mathematics into your videos (mechanical engineer here😅).
Very informative, and it lines up with what we teach. For pioneering structures, by virtue of their size, and that utilize 24 to 30-inch pioneering stakes that have no notches or tie offs, we need to create a 20º angle to assure the guy-line doesn't shift along the stake or actually slip off.
Thank you for sharing, Dave!
I did the vast majority of my tenting in western Washington state where, more often than not, the soils have a deep layer of loosely compacted duff in the top 2"-12" of the soil before compacted glacial till mixed with clays can be reached by an ordinary length tent stake. I often employed a deadman on my tent stakes, and once the stake was buried sufficiently deep enough, I always searched for a large rock(s) to place on top of each stake's burial site. Sometimes if the weather was good, no rain or high winds, then I would just deadman the stake on top of the soil's surface and use downed logs and or large rocks to hold the 4 corners of the tent in position.
Thanks for bringing us this info, Dave! God bless!
Wow, as a physics teacher, that should have been obvious to me! Decades of habit, however, of putting the stake in at an angle, and I never stopped to think it through.
Thank you! I also assumed so far putting in stakes with a 45° angle would be best. The shovel analogy was very helpful to understand it is not. Maybe you could demonstrate the difference by putting increasing amounts of weight on differently angled stakes. Perhaps stake out lines running over posts driven into the ground with buckets hanging at the ends of the lines. Then fill the buckets with water for example until the stakes are pulled out and then compare the difference of water required for the different stake angles.
This was such a good lesson, thank you. Definitely passing this on.
David.... My name is David.... Nice to talk to you David!
I'm a huge fan of the orange screws as stakes... Yes, they're big and bulky but I got room in the pack that they're in... Also something to keep in mind... No need for a mallet or hammer.
Anyways, just my favorite STRONG and super durable stakes.
They held my red nose pitbull who would run at full sprint and it never broke.
I love your videos and also, I love that you cauterized your laceration on DUEL SURVIVAL... That was informative AND badass!
Love you brother and God bless!
Thanks for the tutorial. I have been doing it wrong also. Might explain why my tent blew over in a torrential rain and windstorm as a Boy Scout in the 1960's.
I have never learned so much while getting so hungry at the same time. I kept hearing steak for some reason... Great information, definitely gonna work with this and educate everyone I know! Keep up the great work man!
That just changed my life. That makes total sense. Thank you.
Makes sense! I appreciate your humility. Thanks for sharing!!
Not exactly sure why but I am definitely getting some steaks on the way home and firing up the barbecue this evening.
As a physics teacher this is awesome!
I have never seen someone drive a stake into the ground at 90degrees/straight up and down. I always thought up and down was best but I did not know why. All videos show always doing it at an angle, although I am not sure as to why. I am guessing it gives more surface area/friction at the top of the stake?
Love David Canterbury videos. Always learn something. Great job of educating and informing us that you made mistakes and when you learned the best/right way, you come and show us. Where and when did you learn this? Thank you for sharing and please keep it up.
Hi Dave - Great video. Thank you. I think a lot of people in the past have used a 45 degree angle on the stake to avoid the the possibility of the line slipping off the top of the stake. Can you please address that? How to be sure your line is properly secured to a stake driven vertically.
Somewhere online there's a long-running UK-based discussion about exactly this, with the physics-based conclusion being the same as yours: in reasonably firm soil* staking vertically gives better hold than staking at 45 degrees. Like many others I found this very (as in, completely) counter-intuitive until someone clarified it by asking how you would drive a stake into the ground to give it maximum horizontal stability (ie, forget the tent/tarp guylines for a moment, just concentrate on planting that peg as firmly as possible against lateral forces). Whatever the direction of lateral pull, the answer is you would drive it in vertically, because that that gives you the greatest soil *compression* (your soil-to-soil friction) force to keep your stake in place, plus the stake-to-soil friction. Given most of the forces acting on a stake are lateral, even with a 45 degree guyline, vertical is the way to go. And interestingly also, creates the least practical lever forces around the base of the stake.
Thanks for verification of what I've been doing for 50 years. Lol I've just never been able to explain it that way to others. I live in Ohio and have had my share of rain camps with wind and knowing this has saved my camp as others pulled out over night because of failures. Yes 4 camps set up and in the morning one still stands it happens. Just for such reasons.
Thank you for showing this it's more important than people think in bad weather.
Totally makes sense. Thank you very much.
A very small detail, but at 16:26, you want the vertical height and the horizontal distance to be the same. The length of the tarp in this diagram should be the longest dimension to ensure 45°.
David, when I first learned to stake a tarp, I believe if was from one of the earlier books by Bradford Angier or Calvin Rustrum which recommended driving the stake straight into the ground. Subsequently I relearned to drive the stake in at an angle from other authors. I've been confused since. Thanks for clearing this up once and for all.
Thank you for your knowledge. I just got my scorpion hd yesterday. It's perfect thank you again.
Great tutorial. Thanks.
The shovel analogy was helpful. I also have been doing it wrong!
Thanks for the info, the teaching, and the wisdom, David.
I staked out my pathfinder tarp as and experiment prior to tropic storm Debby. Plowpoint attached to a pecan tree. Surplus army stakes with very short bank line attachments. Tons of wind 25 plus inches of rain. Tarps still standing in SC lowcountry silt.
GREAT advice, Dave! I watch ALL your vids, but this just makes good sense. Well done!
but in the 45 degree example, the force of the line is pulling the stake the stake portion underground is going against 130 degrees of soil. I really love the detail put into this, but it seems like the vast majority of the 135 soil was ignored and only the 45 degree soil was explained. I'm going to have to try this at home to test this new theory, which I've never heard either, so props to giving this a shot!
Was wondering if the guy line, being affixed to the head of the stake, doesn't it place a rotational force on the stake, where it wants to rotate the head of the stake in the direction of the guy line, while the tail of the stake wants to rotate away from the guy line? The head end of the stake is in looser surface soil and being pulled towards the guy line, while the tail end of the stake is in denser soil, less able to move. So the guy line force will tend to bend the head of the stake towards the guy line in the loose surface soil, and that bending moment will tend to force the tail of the stake away from the guy line to keep the stake straight, resisting the bending moment. Could be completely wrong in this, just wanted to raise the issue, since if there was rotational force on the stake, the tail end of the stake would have more soil-to-soil friction as it tried to rotate deeper.
Depends on stake type.
Saw the title, figured I had something new to learn, wasn’t disappointed. Thanks for bringing this to light, could be high stakes…. Appreciate the years, hopefully y’all appreciate the joke haha Shalom!
not totally convinced on the physics. I think you should do comparisons of each scenario ans measure the pulling force it takes to failure of the stake.
It has already been done
In sandy soil you can move back from your anchor stake and drive a support stake. It’ll go in vertical straight. Tying the top of it to the top of your anchor stake seems to keep it all from giving any at all. Takes about 2’ extra of paracord. That cord will hug the ground and doesn’t seem to cause any trouble.
Great teaching, Thank you!
It’s amazing how obvious this seems now!! But I would have swore the science was on the side of 45 angle.
Great stuff!
I love when you get nerdy about this kind of stuff
Great explanation. Not confusing at all.
Great discussion, thank you!
Wow! I've been doing it wrong for decades too! 😂 So it's seems the only time you would angle the stake into the ground is when the guy line angle is steep...that way you're utilizing more soil to soil friction. There are scenarios where you have to stake out close to your shelter and the guy lines are around 70° angle to the ground...usually too big of a tent in a small area. Thanks for a great video and food for thought about a subject rarely discussed...Bravo!
Ive been doing it 45' degrees my whole 55 years...never lost a stake..however seems there are still things to learn here...ill do it this way now on...only because its Mr Canterbury telling me...anyone else i would dismiss as waffle merchants...thanks for reminding me i dont know it all...
Thanks Dave Canterbury!! I still love Self Reliance outfitters!! And the new “Pathfinder knife Shop”!! Nicely done my brother!!👍🏿💯🇺🇸
Even a gen " X " can learn something new, thanks dave.....always enjoy your videos .....
Very cool analysis Dave! Thanks for doing the research and sharing this with us.
Great mental illustration using the shovel idea.
Interesting concepts. Things you thought you understood. Exactly Dave. Always a student.
This reminds me of “Whose on first???” This was quite a lesson. Wow.
10° or 15° angle for me every time for now on just to be sure. Thanks Dave
Dave is the King
Good video. This video sorta needed demonstration of stakes driven and lines attached.
Excellent video…as always. Much appreciated my brother.😀
Excellent demo Dave
Well done. I'll bet you can use the clinometer on your compass to verify the 45 degree angle we need to maintain.
Well I'll be damned, I was taught the wrong way to put a stake in all the way back in the Boy Scouts. Thanks for the clarification, I'm not going to take a speed square with me the next time I go camping but guesstimation should work.
I've been hicking/camping for a decade or so and have always laid my 1 foot aluminum stakes parallel to the ground about six inches below grade and a truckers hitch to tarp. Stake laid down next to undisturbed ground with backfill pounded tight. Sorta like sand/snow anchors.