I prefer the Alp for the segment timers, but Ven-Top is the only sustained climb over an hour. The only time I went under an hour on the Ven-Top segment was the day it launched and I shamelessly drafted Ed's group for the first 2/3 of the segment until they dropped me. On my own its about a 65-67 minute climb segment.
I really like both. My best was on last Christmas eve at 1h21m31s. I hope to get closer to the 1 hour mark in the future maybe trying to pace it better and doing it on purpose as I always ride up Ven Top just for fun and/or without an specific time target😊
Interesting and informative as ever Ed. Many thanks. Was planning a go at this sometime myself this summer before I try the Stelvio in September. I will be happy with anything around 1hr45mins I think !
Another great video Ed...im just back from Majorca and managed to beat my pb up Sa Calobra by 5 mins 50 secs.. whilst we were there a guy everested it!!
You make pushing those watts out look easy. The whole room shakes when I go above 350. At my w/kg this is a proper endurance test. Feels so much harder than the Alpe.
Thanks for the analysis Mr. Laverack and for explaining in more detail trainer difficulty setting. My take is, you still have to do the power however you don't have to shift much on the climb. Correct?
No. Not correct. If you change the trainer difficulty you are lowering the gradient therefore you are not climbing the same ascent anymore. It will not be a realistic simulation of that climb. You are making it easier which you cannot do in real life. Gradient = pain you can't just turn that down in real life. Just get proper gearing it's not even that expensive to get a 36T cassette / have it installed. We already get to cheat the altitude of climbs by being at home and don't have gravity working against us. Those 2 things alone are big enough hacks. Sure lets hack the mountain and lower the gradient too lol
Hi Ed! First of all, hats off to your amazing performances always! I always watch your videos and I see that you are not eating solid when on the turbo and only drinking from time to time. Is it because you have your carbs in liquid form in the bidon (maltodextrine+fructose, some Styrkr mix drink or similar)? In case contrary, are you relying on what you have consumed beforehand? In that case, is it something you'd share? I mean, what meal, how many hours before the ride, etc.? Many thanks in advance and keep up with the fantastic content man😊
Really depends on the day. In this case I didn’t ride in the morning and this effort was in the evening. I consumed 527g of carbs through the day and was relatively fresh legged for the effort. So in this case I didn’t take on any food during the hour.
IMO Zero Trainer Difficulty definitely makes these long climbs easier for the lightweight climber dudes bc you are spinning and using a different muscle group vs trainer difficulty at 50 or 100 where your cadence drops and its less an aerobic exercise and more a slog. Zero Trainer Difficulty is Chris Froome spinning to win. 100 is Jan Ulrich. Just depends on what type of Climber you are. I'm taller and heavy and having the trainer difficulty higher lets me gets up and mash the big gear and shift my weight around.
6:45 - Would going to 100% trainer difficulty be helpful if you were pacing o the terrain instead? That would surely give good feedback about what the gradients are doing?
It would, if that’s what you wanted. Most people aren’t well practiced enough to keep the power smooth when gradients go from 5 to 11% and back again though, so that’s where TD comes in real handy.
Trainer difficulty at zero? Come on man. You can do whatever you want, but it's weird that you are explaining how do this "climb" faster, when you are not riding climb at all. Just do a flat custom session then, of the corresponding length. Doesn't matter if it's climbing to Mount Everest or riding around Dutch coasts... The whole point of a climb is to have difficulty at 100%.
No the whole point of trainer difficulty is there for you to use it for what YOU want. It’s not a rigid thing, that you HAVE to ride at certain TD to make it “count.” Just the same as if people change to a much smaller gear ratio to ride outside on really steep hills.
@@edlaverack Which point of my comment do you disagree with? From what you wrote you don't disagree with any point of my comment. It's not a climb, so no point in saying how to climb and what the gradients are. If GT would be made out of trainer difficulty 0% stages, we would be having completely different winners. Why are pro's using different gearing on climbs at all? Why don't they all use 34-36 on every climb, if it's the same thing? Are they expecting to have the same time on 34-36 as they would have on 39-25 on Zoncolan? Would you have the same time?
What’s the point in riding a simulation of real climb and not making it feel like real climb? It sounds so strange and counterintuitive. I see your objectives in training for TT, but don’t understand how riding up to Ven-Top with trainer difficulty set to 0 contributes into it.
In the grand scheme of things It doesn’t matter. The effort is the effort. The only difference is you aren’t at the mercy of the virtual hill and can move the needle when YOU chose, not the climb. I don’t always use 0%, I use both ends of the spectrum depending on what I’m trying to achieve.
@@edlaverack thank you the reply 🙏IMO cadence on different gradients varies and simply cannot be constant. I appreciate your effort nevertheless. I personally think the same workout (the goal was holding and progressively increasing power within 1hr, right?) would not be difficult to create, but without controversial inclusion of a climb into it 😉 for sure that would be less interesting on RUclips, haha 😆
As a heavier rider I need the 1:1 ratio outside my real bike provides, but indoors my trainer bike is 34/28 and I'd probably struggle on any prolonged 10%+ sections using 100% TD. I always run 50% TD but may knock this down (25%?)on these climb efforts.... (for the record I'm 170cm, 84kg, age 55 and last week did Sa Calobra IRL in 50m30s....happy AF with that!)
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you "prefer" Ven-Top or Alp?
I prefer the Alp for the segment timers, but Ven-Top is the only sustained climb over an hour. The only time I went under an hour on the Ven-Top segment was the day it launched and I shamelessly drafted Ed's group for the first 2/3 of the segment until they dropped me. On my own its about a 65-67 minute climb segment.
I really like both. My best was on last Christmas eve at 1h21m31s. I hope to get closer to the 1 hour mark in the future maybe trying to pace it better and doing it on purpose as I always ride up Ven Top just for fun and/or without an specific time target😊
Interesting and informative as ever Ed. Many thanks. Was planning a go at this sometime myself this summer before I try the Stelvio in September. I will be happy with anything around 1hr45mins I think !
Be very good pacing practice for the Stelvio Jon🎯
@@edlaverack Thanks Ed, will definitely give it a go shortly !
Another great video Ed...im just back from Majorca and managed to beat my pb up Sa Calobra by 5 mins 50 secs.. whilst we were there a guy everested it!!
Oooooo!!! Awesome news to wake up to!!
Was c cat, now D cat, 2,042miles one year on zwift, now 57year and 119kg.😊
You make pushing those watts out look easy. The whole room shakes when I go above 350. At my w/kg this is a proper endurance test. Feels so much harder than the Alpe.
But that’s just it. The watts are easy if you aren’t going max. If you ride at 90% of your FTP you should make that look easy🤟🏼
Ven-top took me 3 hours lol
Thanks for the analysis Mr. Laverack and for explaining in more detail trainer difficulty setting. My take is, you still have to do the power however you don't have to shift much on the climb. Correct?
Bang on
No. Not correct. If you change the trainer difficulty you are lowering the gradient therefore you are not climbing the same ascent anymore. It will not be a realistic simulation of that climb. You are making it easier which you cannot do in real life. Gradient = pain you can't just turn that down in real life. Just get proper gearing it's not even that expensive to get a 36T cassette / have it installed. We already get to cheat the altitude of climbs by being at home and don't have gravity working against us. Those 2 things alone are big enough hacks. Sure lets hack the mountain and lower the gradient too lol
Hi Ed! First of all, hats off to your amazing performances always! I always watch your videos and I see that you are not eating solid when on the turbo and only drinking from time to time. Is it because you have your carbs in liquid form in the bidon (maltodextrine+fructose, some Styrkr mix drink or similar)? In case contrary, are you relying on what you have consumed beforehand? In that case, is it something you'd share? I mean, what meal, how many hours before the ride, etc.? Many thanks in advance and keep up with the fantastic content man😊
Really depends on the day. In this case I didn’t ride in the morning and this effort was in the evening. I consumed 527g of carbs through the day and was relatively fresh legged for the effort. So in this case I didn’t take on any food during the hour.
@@edlaverack Thank you very much for the answer Ed!😉
Thanks your a great teacher 👍.
Bloody monster!
Great video thanks 😊 👍 🙏
Great video thanks amazing 😊
Thanks 😊
15 minutes ftp 5 min recovery all the way up is a good one i find on ventop but i take MUCH longer than a hour 😂
What kind of trainer are you using? Thanks for the video.
This was done on a Wahoo Kickr V5
Level 30 zwift cycling, level 4 zwift running 😊
IMO Zero Trainer Difficulty definitely makes these long climbs easier for the lightweight climber dudes bc you are spinning and using a different muscle group vs trainer difficulty at 50 or 100 where your cadence drops and its less an aerobic exercise and more a slog. Zero Trainer Difficulty is Chris Froome spinning to win. 100 is Jan Ulrich. Just depends on what type of Climber you are. I'm taller and heavy and having the trainer difficulty higher lets me gets up and mash the big gear and shift my weight around.
Totally. In todays racing era they have the gear ratios to accomodate their riding styles. Similar to our indoor trainer difficulty settings😃
what did you do that day with food ?? do you some carb load ??
6-10g/kg of body weight. As this was my only ride that day and came so late in the day it was fairly adequate.
Yeah your graph looks slightly different from mine 😂
🦈🦷
Level 6 on zwift.
6:45 - Would going to 100% trainer difficulty be helpful if you were pacing o the terrain instead? That would surely give good feedback about what the gradients are doing?
It would, if that’s what you wanted. Most people aren’t well practiced enough to keep the power smooth when gradients go from 5 to 11% and back again though, so that’s where TD comes in real handy.
@@edlaverack Cool. I'll give it a go once I get Zwift set up again. Only ever used it with a 'dumb' trainer so will buy a proper one
which is harder alpe or ventop?
A question for the masses. Ventop gets my vote, requires more patience.
where are the tips? my best, my power, my this, my that.
Sharing my effort breakdown for folk to get an insight
Why has it got the nickname ventop? Sounds kinda lame IMO
Trainer difficulty at zero? Come on man. You can do whatever you want, but it's weird that you are explaining how do this "climb" faster, when you are not riding climb at all. Just do a flat custom session then, of the corresponding length. Doesn't matter if it's climbing to Mount Everest or riding around Dutch coasts... The whole point of a climb is to have difficulty at 100%.
No the whole point of trainer difficulty is there for you to use it for what YOU want. It’s not a rigid thing, that you HAVE to ride at certain TD to make it “count.” Just the same as if people change to a much smaller gear ratio to ride outside on really steep hills.
@@edlaverack Which point of my comment do you disagree with? From what you wrote you don't disagree with any point of my comment.
It's not a climb, so no point in saying how to climb and what the gradients are. If GT would be made out of trainer difficulty 0% stages, we would be having completely different winners. Why are pro's using different gearing on climbs at all? Why don't they all use 34-36 on every climb, if it's the same thing? Are they expecting to have the same time on 34-36 as they would have on 39-25 on Zoncolan? Would you have the same time?
What’s the point in riding a simulation of real climb and not making it feel like real climb? It sounds so strange and counterintuitive. I see your objectives in training for TT, but don’t understand how riding up to Ven-Top with trainer difficulty set to 0 contributes into it.
In the grand scheme of things It doesn’t matter. The effort is the effort. The only difference is you aren’t at the mercy of the virtual hill and can move the needle when YOU chose, not the climb. I don’t always use 0%, I use both ends of the spectrum depending on what I’m trying to achieve.
@@edlaverack thank you the reply 🙏IMO cadence on different gradients varies and simply cannot be constant. I appreciate your effort nevertheless. I personally think the same workout (the goal was holding and progressively increasing power within 1hr, right?) would not be difficult to create, but without controversial inclusion of a climb into it 😉 for sure that would be less interesting on RUclips, haha 😆
As a heavier rider I need the 1:1 ratio outside my real bike provides, but indoors my trainer bike is 34/28 and I'd probably struggle on any prolonged 10%+ sections using 100% TD. I always run 50% TD but may knock this down (25%?)on these climb efforts.... (for the record I'm 170cm, 84kg, age 55 and last week did Sa Calobra IRL in 50m30s....happy AF with that!)