Wow that’s crazy, I would be very upset if that happened to a high dollar coach like that ! That’s pretty sad ! Great Video Andrew Thanks for keeping it real !
It's the getting them off without ruining them, or buying all new Stainless Steel panels and sand the substrate to smooth again. Either way it's time consuming and something the Prevost Co should have sued for. Then again it could be the substrate dissolving, causing the adhesion to fail. I don't know the backing, so these are considerations of known failures in the real world.
Bryan St.Martin sorry to hear that I guess their no such thing as easy 💰 worked in family’s body shop the work hours that goes into refinishing a car is a butt kicker
Thanks for sharing this video, it is very good to have this information when considering a purchase. I wish there were more honest sharing like this. Of course it still dont mean someone shouldn't buy one of these.. some fixes are worth paying for, depending on the coach!
Also a problem in the architectural industry Architects want mechanically fastened...while many developers and contractors want to glue things together fast/cheap
Wow I thought these were state of the art and this type thing was not happening. Shocking really an eye opener. Thank You My little tiny Sunseeker has Asdel siding and the exterior they say can’t have that Problem. It’s a under a hundred thousand dollars for a brand new little ride. 25 feet long wow I had no idea, thank You again.
Andrew - Another great and informative video! Thank you! I'm like you...a "wannabe" Prevost owner who currently owns an 07 DutchStar. I have had my eye on both the older XL and less older XLII models. I may now decide to pull the trigger on a nice old XL or maybe an H3 and stay away from the XLII models. Or, my wife wins out and we keep the DutchStar! 🤣
If you stay on top of any Prevost delam issue, you can have these re-glued by any qualified Prevost repair shop for around $800 - $1,000. The re-glue is required about every 3 years or so. Anyone spending $35k or more to fix a fairly common problem like this is wasting money. I've had my XL2 for 8 years and had to have this done twice only in that time period. It's a shame that videos like this don't tell the whole story.
Andrew - this is a great video. About 2 years ago we met a guy named Kyle Bennett at Tradewinds RV in FL. They maintain, service and broker preowned RVs and namely know their Prevosts. He was the first to explain this to my wife and I and show is the difference and what to look for and it became a regular question thereafter in our hunt for a XLII conversion. What we soon learned is that if a XL is less expensive by about $30K to $50K then the owner or seller knows about the delam and will say nothing usually unless asked directly. Or they’ll say they don’t know. Kyle was incredibly good about showing us what to look for. Then we met Austin Hicks at Olympia and he did the same. Basically - it’s a $30K to $50K fix. And may be right and may not be. They can’t just glue them back and if they tell you they can then they are wrong. They usually use a vertical strip between the panels. If water gets behind them then it will he even worse. Nobody knows that answer until they get into the coach. The problem was supposedly fixed in the X3. So, we switched gears to the preowned X3 hunt (want to stay under $1M) and/or the H3. We have now taken a liking to Emerald after watching the quad slide H on your channel. Mr Walker has it down. Our tastes to a T and right up the road from us. Thanks Andrew.
Thank you for your feedback! I have met Kyle and he is a good guy. I have not Met Austin personally but have heard that he is a good guy as well. Your comment says a lot about both of them and their integrity. Best of luck to you on your hunt for an X3! I'm sure with all the craziness going on right now, you will be able to find a good deal somewhere.
I’m glad you’re talking about this issue, which has been around for over a decade. For a company like Prevost, which prides itself on quality and excellence in engineering, this ongoing issue is inexcusable. Obviously there is a problem with glue selection, production process, or both (I question Prevost decision to use glue in the first place, when this seems like an ideal application for double sided tape). As a mechanical engineer, I know that manufacturing problems like this are solvable. And, while finding the solution is not easy (it takes resources and a pragmatic approach to problem solving), I wonder which is more costly; fixing the issue, or the hit to Prevost reputation? It’s one of the reasons I’m hesitant to buy a used XL11.
You're talking about a quality control issue from years ago being inexcusable today. Once it became a known issue they changed their ways. They've changed their process in which siding panels applied. Stop complaining about old coaches. Engineers such as yourself are not immune to errors. Once they made a mistake, they learned. Prevost is NOT Latin for PERFECT. Yet, the =y remain the best coaches on the road. Including Charlie Daniels 2.5 million coach that was warranried for squeeks & rattles the ENTIRE time. Who else can boast that statement? NOBODY!!!
Double sided tape erodes over time, and lets go too, I would suggest a urethane windshield glue, ever cut out a windshield? That stuff stays stuck. There is also a product in the automotive field called panel bond, it is a two stage product, and when cured is almost impossible to pry apart, as a matter of fact when it was first introduced to the market, 3M came by our shop, glued two pieces of sheetmetal together and once it dried we hooked it up to our frame pulling machine with chains and clamps and the glued section stayed stuck but the metal ripped in another spot. However I'd just stay with the riveted models anyway, I like the rivets.
Wow Andrew you don’t mess around lol! Thanks so much for the video, you have such great connections to find all this information for us! Where I live you rarely see a Prevost on the road (especially in the winter) let alone get a chance to talk to owners about them, I’ll have to check out some forums in the future too. Really appreciate your honesty in all your videos I’m guessing that’s why your subscribers keep increasing. I’ll know who to call when I get my bus and am parked in Phoenix for the winter in a couple years!
That is great information on the XL and XL-II's. Will you ever do any videos on the H3-45's? I am looking to purchase one and your channel has provided good insight on designs, flaws, options, and so much more...keep it up! I love the stainless steel look but the maintenance and cost with this new information on pre-owned units is eye-opening!
Expect the current owner to fix by Prevost, as part of your purchase, head over to Prevost forums to understand why you should still strongly consider a used prevost over other later model Class A's....
The problem is heat and cold expansion and contraction.i worked at motor coach in Winnipeg almost twenty years ago when they started making the new fiberglass coaches.they had same problem because there was no spacers between the metal frame and the fiberglass panels.The expansion would cause the seal to break so we basically cut the seal and cleaned it off then put spacers in and put the cicka flex sealant back and clamp it until dry.
We enjoy our older non-slide XL45, was seriously looking for a XL2. Think we will continue to enjoy our coach and not upgrade. Thank you for this video. Looking foreword to hitting the road after the Quarantine, cancelled all reservations up through August so far.
Thank you Andrew for your videos. I really appreciate it. IMHO...get an XL and call it a day. I got a Wanderlodge and called it a day. No delam on a welded all steel bus.
Good to know that Andrew, I’m in the market for a XLII, Prevost should’ve engineered that major problem out years ago, or at least life time warranties for any person that owns it.
Delamm is a problem with ALL large motorhomes, not just Prevost! I had to pop rivets the sides over the tires on my Monaco, cost me about $15.00 and did it my self
Million dollar motorhome and your still dealing with delamination like an old bounder or Fleetwood. Please bring back good old American quality. Rivets never hurt nobody and they look good
They hurt the manufacturer's bottom line, which is such horseshit. Also, these aren't a million dollars anymore. Most of these aren't even a half a million dollars now.
Andrew very good!been in the rv industry a long time.most laminated bodies sooner or later will delaminate.been looking for decade for a xl45 Finally got a 95 the body and chassis age is like it was 5 years old.it is built like it could last 50 years.be safe thank you for the great and informative video s.
Great video again Andrew, good useful information like you said kinda depends on how much heat the coach has been in over the years and cold but l look at it this way it’s just like buying a used home it’s always going to need maintenance to keep in top notch shape every thing breaks down in time
well that would do it for me, what I had heard is that PREVOST always took care and stood behind their coaches. Yep drive it until the sides fall off. or water gets inside the skins and grows mold in there.
In my couple decades of piloting both Rock & Roll and private owned Prevost’s, from mid-90’s XL models, the early to late model XLII’s, to the newest X3’s, I’ve seen maybe a couple that had delamination issues, and they were 1st Gen XLII’s with a gazillion miles on them. Considering how much body flex these coaches endure, especially the older non-slide ones that had been rode hard in the leasing industry, I’m surprised I didn’t notice more of it, and I was a pretty OCD driver to NOT notice, if it was an issue with such a high occurrence.
There's what we call Entertainer Coach and the Motorhome coach. The entertainers are basically tour buses which are mostly leased. The motorhome are the private coaches and those have two rows on chromed stainless panels. The entertainers just have the bottom row. I started working at Prévost last January and I like seeing this kind of videos... rest assured they changed there glue quite a while ago though so if you buy one that needs that kind of fix...they'll put the new glue that they now use to hold these panels
My first comments disappeared?I will repeat.i worked at motor coach when the fiberglass coaches first started.the problem was no spacers between metal frame and fiberglass panels so the Sika flex had no flexibility so the expansion and contraction from -20 to +100 degrees would break the seal and come loose.solutikn was to cut the seal loose clean it off put spacers and re seal.this was close to 20 years ago so IAM very alarmed all coach builders don't know or pretending not to know?
High class problems.... Considering the cost of a Prevost, this isn’t that dreadful. Hence a thorough prebuy inspection is critical. Anyone that owns an aircraft can share similar experiences and learning lessons.
Bill Callaway if a Prevost is a 10, an Airstream is maybe a 3. Most of the pipes and wiring are under the floor on an AS. To repair you have to rip out the flooring. Not a good design. Very light duty.
@@capitandonzi2113 I got a 73. 31 footer I have not even replaced the refrigerator. Solar panels and a four battery pack.. You think you're prevost will last as long as my Airstream????. Cost as little to maintain ???pull it with 69 one ton Ford 4 wheel diesel van. 14 mpg. Yes I like prevost $ 800000 less I'll keep my airstream. Life is good enjoy your prevost.
Your best trip RV/Plane/Yacht is someone else's that you lease/rent - if you're not using it nearly full-time. You notice most bands lease their buses for their tours, because they don't need to pay to have them sit between outings, and they can lease newer buses for each tour.
What a buzzkill for any would be Prevost owner. Thanks Andrew for bringing this up to our attention, this is why I like watching your YT channel. Every RV brand has its own problem, Prevost is not excluded. It is valuable information, might be used when negotiating the sale price of a 10+ yr old Prevost.
@@NomadicSociety Simple equation here. Andrew Steeles main objective is revenue generation. He'll make a sales video for Country Coach & have the audacity to incessantly talk about upgrading the flooring & other condescending quips while they're paying him to market their coach. Why would he make SO many Prevost vids for Liberty Coach, then cast shade on Prevost? Duh! I'd fire him in a hot second if he tried that on my lot. Andrew Steele will talk about whatever gets him subscribers which = sponsor $$$....Pfffft.
The riveted buses are the commercial buses ( grey hound, Erie ) but the motorhome people don’t like the rivets so what you have is “ be careful what you wish for, you might just get it”
Not exactly. The difference is the year and model. XL were up to 2001 and both seated coaches and Motorhomes have rivets. When the XL II was introduced both seated and Motorhomes have no rivets.
just prick punch it 1st!!! nothing worse than slipping when your drillin the hole and leaving a mark from you know where down your stainless steel beauty!
When you're spending big money on ANYTHING you must inspect diligently. It doesn't matter the thing or service for which you're spending; RV, boat, home, etc. Due diligence is what the lawyer types call it.
And yet, the most comfortable bus I've ever lived on. I dream of getting sleep that good again. Delamination may be a problem, but the comfort and style these units offer is well worth the cost
The don’t say how many hours It would take to glue the panels back but if it’s $50 grand at $100. Per hour that’s 500 hours and the glue and shop supplies might be a thousand! Customer is getting ripped off for the whole job!
I use to drive Marathon xl working girl. My dad was in to rvs and we had friends that had conversions so seeing all those coaches gave me a big case of i wants !!!They are so pretty !!! I saw a Senator coach up in Montreal ( in the 90s )and the driver was trying to get to drive for them . I have been the the factory for Prevost as well.
That is why you should buy an older Prevost bus, 1995-96 or earlier. They are both better built with rivets and are not as not as expensive. Hopefully, Prevost will fix this issue and go back to making great buses with rivets. They used to be worth the money, now not as much.
As one who is considering RVing full time, I appreciate this. A suggestion for the future is to go over some of the safety features by year or modifier. When I look at descriptions of motorhomes, I an drawn to items like collision avoidance, blind spot warnings, ect. Doubt that I am the only one. Another thing is do Prevost units have a sliding tray that covers the entry steps? If not, what prevents the passenger from falling down the stairs?
That "rivetless" laminated stainless adhesive, was and is made by the 3M family of products. Marmon, the classic bespoke truck manufacturer, used the same technology, on it's cabs and sleepers. Just like these Prevosts, the Marmon trucks have experienced problems over the years, with various aluminum plates delaminating. Only fix for it, is to remove the old 3M adhesive from each individual plate, and to re-apply the same fixative, and stick them back together. Marmon stopped making trucks, back in 1997. Trucks that have had the delamination problem, are usually those that have been exposed to the extreme Southern Summers.
Looks to me that the panels are put on the bus wrong because when you're driving the wind can get behind them that's what's pulling them off The fixx should be on the manufacturer
My boyfriend Randy used to buff them for Royle Coach, and they are ALL STAINLESS. No aluminum on the bus. Some buses were delaminated right from the factory, and Prevost came and replaced the panels.
Great video Andrew .... I was always under the impression that any prevost conversion is overpriced and everyone was telling me but prevosts are supposed to last a life time!!! Well, surprise, surprise aint that a fun killer!! Even with proper storage, they are prone to delaminate due to the construction of these panels and sticking those tins on them with a glue ....I have seen even the old revitted ones delaminate here in the heat and sun of the middle east ... It is time for these grayhound buses to come down to a more realistic price!!
NOTHING on the road is bullet proof. Especially with chug holes & change of weather. Prevost is still as good as it gets! Until then, consider how much better they are than what you drive currently.
Yes, definitely one of the reasons you guys are able to command a premium. I hope you, all of the folks at Liberty Coach and your families are safe during this time.
Very good to know this Ron. So to be clear, if you get a used Liberty on your lot that hasn’t been fixed, whether it’s showing delamination or not, you will not sell it until it’s been sent to Prevost for the proper repairs?
Sal Vastola nope sorry no paint job has to cost that much when the panels only have to be removed, cleaned, glued, then reattached. And don’t say technology isn’t available to remove and reattach those panels without a scratch, why because the tech been in existence for decades.
yup! ive been buffing a stainless panel from raw at factory and it got the panel soo hot it heated the glue and caused it to start delaminating,🤦 andrew,u know how many of these buses we've touched lol..long story short,i pay close attention to how hot i get the panels now🙂👌
I have read where the issue causes water to come into the living space. I can't believe that such an expensive product such as a motorcoach has such a serious flaw.
Andrew, when are you getting a PREVOST!?? That's the real question! I love all the PREVOST videos, from old to new ones, more bay videos and exterior stuff keep it coming!
We have a 40' Navigator, some day it's my dream to own a early 2000 non-slide XLV PREVOST ! but for now your videos are so cool to watch 😎 thanks for all the hard work you put into making this content.
In my day, we were just glad to make it back to our coach. After 3 hours on stage our hearing was shot, we couldn’t hear those loose panels rattling. Cocaine is a wicked mistress.
Looks like an old episode of Gilligan's Island where they used pancake batter to glue the S.S. Minnow together. Rivets look cool. Why ruin a good thing? Did they save on labor by switching to glue? I hope they don't make airplanes.
Thats why I like the riveted models, and they look more like a bus with the rivets, if you're a bus guy or gal, and not just a coach person. The reason I started looking at Prevost buses, was alot of the older professionally built bus conversions out there were neglected and still over priced, or just junk, if I am going to pay good money for something, I want it to look good, but so many of these just sit outside in the elements and deteriorate, which is sad, the paint goes south, all of the rubber seals rot and don't seal anymore, allowing rodents to get in, but they still ask a small fortune for them, yes I know, when they were new, they cost up to or over a million dollars, but they aren't new anymore are they? I have a feeling that, that is fixing to change, as more and more people are affected by the current financial and geopolitical situation that we are in. Sell em while you can.
That's not Delam! Those are gills. I worked on one for a very nice customer, who had a bunch of his interior mirrors coming off. You gotta be careful spraying new adhesive on them, you will peel the Mirror backing off. :-) :-(
Well I’ll just take my BlueBird and roll on home. Some do have a similar problem with the nose and rear cap. Fortunately they can be reglued fairly easy. And do get a survey when you sink money like that into shiny steel like that.
I would consider rivets installed on a coach with this type of defect! The heck with a continuous worry of siding failure and soring costs. Nope, there has to be a better way than just gluing the siding back on every 10 to 15 years. This should be a factory recall cost/problem NOT the end customer.
@@ST-ov8cm I'd go for the rivets, Airstream has done this right from the beginning and never have any problems, what Prevost actually did was basically just going the cheap way with the glue and hope it lasts until the warranty is up, what they're doing is like if one of us is being cheap with nails and just gluing the siding on our homes and not using any nails? I still love the Prevost coaches but this would sure be something I would definitely be looking out for especially if the repair is going to cost me between $30 to $50,000 big bucks. That's about 1 to 2 yrs of camping and travelling money for a lot of people.
Crazy Canuck What Prevost has done is give the consumer what they want. Most prefer the sleek look of no rivets, and right now the best way to do that is by lamination. When I make a purchase like this I have to know that I will spend $2,000 on tires after so many miles. $800 on oil change after so many miles. $7000 on engine overhaul after so many miles, etc. And, $40,000 on re-lamination after so many miles. I could opt instead for rivets, but it won't look as nice. I could opt for solid unpainted stainless, but it won't look as nice. I could opt for solid rubber tires (assuming they're available for this application) to reduce required maintenance. But, every decision comes with trade-offs.
@@ST-ov8cm What you are saying is that there is deferred maintenance and I agree that anything has to be maintained, however, I consider delamination a factory defect and NOT deferred maintenance for the owner. This has been going on for a long time and the manufacturer has known about the obvious defect but chooses to continue producing the coach without correcting the problem and not informing the customers that this will happen possibly to their coach and they will end up digging into their pockets and paying the brunt of the cost for repairs. That is called a factory defect; plain and simple.
Waders in Alaska So, if the paint starts peeling off of your house is that a factory defect? A warranty specifically says that they will pay to repair any defects within a specific time period. Nothing, NOTHING lasts forever.
it just cost me about $8k to remove and reglue the two panels on my front slide. XL2, 06. sold it right after.. Don't let this scare you away from the XL2 but buy accordingly. I spent about $50k on prevost service over 5 years for this repair and a boatload on front slide out fixes including new seal. These are not cheap toys!
Maybe Prevost needs to go back to riveting their panels on. I always thought the rivets looked cool.
I have a 1985 MCI and the riveted panels look amazing and the stainless looks amazing once you overheat the engine and it gets a rainbow look
Exactly! If was not broke don't fix it.
I agree that the rivets look badass.
Love the look of the riveted coaches. This is a major problem that would turn me right off from even considering an xl2
Wow that’s crazy, I would be very upset if that happened to a high dollar coach like that ! That’s pretty sad ! Great Video Andrew Thanks for keeping it real !
Exactly!!!
Interesting to know. Beautiful being so smooth but a few polished rivets would seem to be a more intelligent long term solution.
50 thousand for glueing panels I’m in the wrong business
Me too ;-)
It's the getting them off without ruining them, or buying all new Stainless Steel panels and sand the substrate to smooth again. Either way it's time consuming and something the Prevost Co should have sued for. Then again it could be the substrate dissolving, causing the adhesion to fail. I don't know the backing, so these are considerations of known failures in the real world.
Bryan St.Martin sorry to hear that I guess their no such thing as easy 💰 worked in family’s body shop the work hours that goes into refinishing a car is a butt kicker
Amen brother, eve if you have to take the rivets out and preplace with new ones, 4 days job.
He said in the video that a large portion of the cost was re-painting. A full-body, multi-color re-paint on a 45’ Prevost can run $60K to $100K.
Shattered Prevost’s quality image for me! Wow. I’ll never lust after one again!
I'm hip. I guess it's like lusting after anything that's unaffordable. More fake 'prestige' than real value. My ranking at KOA could suffer though...
So delamination was thought to be a mass produced fiberglass RV problem! Yikes. Great information Andrew.
Crazy to have these problems on such an expensive coach
There are just as many suckers at this price point...maybe even more.
I got mine to use. I got it last June and it has over 12,000. Miles so far. Going again when the quarantine is over.
Thanks for sharing this video, it is very good to have this information when considering a purchase. I wish there were more honest sharing like this.
Of course it still dont mean someone shouldn't buy one of these.. some fixes are worth paying for, depending on the coach!
I would never have suspected a manufacturer would glue on stainless steel panels.
Also a problem in the architectural industry Architects want mechanically fastened...while many developers and contractors want to glue things together fast/cheap
@@brichusi Except for Space Shuttle Columbia :(
@@thomaslgrice don't forget Challenger
@@jackrussellville I was there, I saw it.
@@brichusi Those were the Expensive buses!
Reminds us poor people to stay away from shiny things ..... LOL
Man alive you brought me a smile thank you.... also I must get my £2.50 LOTTO ticket.
This shiny shit is for Mike bloomberg & Carlos slim, ETC
The best video you have done Andrew - valuable information !
Wow I thought these were state of the art and this type thing was not happening. Shocking really an eye opener. Thank You My little tiny Sunseeker has Asdel siding and the exterior they say can’t have that Problem. It’s a under a hundred thousand dollars for a brand new little ride. 25 feet long wow I had no idea, thank You again.
Andrew - Another great and informative video! Thank you! I'm like you...a "wannabe" Prevost owner who currently owns an 07 DutchStar. I have had my eye on both the older XL and less older XLII models. I may now decide to pull the trigger on a nice old XL or maybe an H3 and stay away from the XLII models.
Or, my wife wins out and we keep the DutchStar! 🤣
If you stay on top of any Prevost delam issue, you can have these re-glued by any qualified Prevost repair shop for around $800 - $1,000. The re-glue is required about every 3 years or so. Anyone spending $35k or more to fix a fairly common problem like this is wasting money. I've had my XL2 for 8 years and had to have this done twice only in that time period. It's a shame that videos like this don't tell the whole story.
Andrew - this is a great video. About 2 years ago we met a guy named Kyle Bennett at Tradewinds RV in FL. They maintain, service and broker preowned RVs and namely know their Prevosts. He was the first to explain this to my wife and I and show is the difference and what to look for and it became a regular question thereafter in our hunt for a XLII conversion. What we soon learned is that if a XL is less expensive by about $30K to $50K then the owner or seller knows about the delam and will say nothing usually unless asked directly. Or they’ll say they don’t know. Kyle was incredibly good about showing us what to look for. Then we met Austin Hicks at Olympia and he did the same. Basically - it’s a $30K to $50K fix. And may be right and may not be. They can’t just glue them back and if they tell you they can then they are wrong. They usually use a vertical strip between the panels. If water gets behind them then it will he even worse. Nobody knows that answer until they get into the coach. The problem was supposedly fixed in the X3. So, we switched gears to the preowned X3 hunt (want to stay under $1M) and/or the H3. We have now taken a liking to Emerald after watching the quad slide H on your channel. Mr Walker has it down. Our tastes to a T and right up the road from us. Thanks Andrew.
Thank you for your feedback! I have met Kyle and he is a good guy. I have not Met Austin personally but have heard that he is a good guy as well. Your comment says a lot about both of them and their integrity. Best of luck to you on your hunt for an X3! I'm sure with all the craziness going on right now, you will be able to find a good deal somewhere.
@@RVingwithAndrewSteele Actively looking.
Dude I dig your channel because your just about the only one to tell people the price of most RV's you go over.
That's one more reason i prefer the entertainer x3. I like the look of that smooth metal above the bays.
I’m glad you’re talking about this issue, which has been around for over a decade. For a company like Prevost, which prides itself on quality and excellence in engineering, this ongoing issue is inexcusable. Obviously there is a problem with glue selection, production process, or both (I question Prevost decision to use glue in the first place, when this seems like an ideal application for double sided tape). As a mechanical engineer, I know that manufacturing problems like this are solvable. And, while finding the solution is not easy (it takes resources and a pragmatic approach to problem solving), I wonder which is more costly; fixing the issue, or the hit to Prevost reputation? It’s one of the reasons I’m hesitant to buy a used XL11.
You're talking about a quality control issue from years ago being inexcusable today. Once it became a known issue they changed their ways. They've changed their process in which siding panels applied. Stop complaining about old coaches. Engineers such as yourself are not immune to errors. Once they made a mistake, they learned. Prevost is NOT Latin for PERFECT. Yet, the =y remain the best coaches on the road. Including Charlie Daniels 2.5 million coach that was warranried for squeeks & rattles the ENTIRE time. Who else can boast that statement? NOBODY!!!
Double sided tape erodes over time, and lets go too, I would suggest a urethane windshield glue, ever cut out a windshield? That stuff stays stuck. There is also a product in the automotive field called panel bond, it is a two stage product, and when cured is almost impossible to pry apart, as a matter of fact when it was first introduced to the market, 3M came by our shop, glued two pieces of sheetmetal together and once it dried we hooked it up to our frame pulling machine with chains and clamps and the glued section stayed stuck but the metal ripped in another spot. However I'd just stay with the riveted models anyway, I like the rivets.
Wow Andrew you don’t mess around lol! Thanks so much for the video, you have such great connections to find all this information for us! Where I live you rarely see a Prevost on the road (especially in the winter) let alone get a chance to talk to owners about them, I’ll have to check out some forums in the future too. Really appreciate your honesty in all your videos I’m guessing that’s why your subscribers keep increasing. I’ll know who to call when I get my bus and am parked in Phoenix for the winter in a couple years!
The real idiots are the ones who would agree to that price!! DIY
Some have more money then brains.
As long as it looks good is what counts.
if you can afford it why not. ;) Must be nice to be in the position to be able to take this home new ;)
I have to disagree. If you can afford a Prevost most likely you can afford the fix if you own on that has this issue.
That is great information on the XL and XL-II's. Will you ever do any videos on the H3-45's? I am looking to purchase one and your channel has provided good insight on designs, flaws, options, and so much more...keep it up! I love the stainless steel look but the maintenance and cost with this new information on pre-owned units is eye-opening!
Expect the current owner to fix by Prevost, as part of your purchase, head over to Prevost forums to understand why you should still strongly consider a used prevost over other later model Class A's....
The problem is heat and cold expansion and contraction.i worked at motor coach in Winnipeg almost twenty years ago when they started making the new fiberglass coaches.they had same problem because there was no spacers between the metal frame and the fiberglass panels.The expansion would cause the seal to break so we basically cut the seal and cleaned it off then put spacers in and put the cicka flex sealant back and clamp it until dry.
$100 self tapping screws and a case of beer.
yes
and some silicone
willysnowman what kind of beer? Not the Budweiser stuff I hope.
@@normferguson2769 ugh. something light like pacifico. don't want to have crooked screws. :)
Get some Robertson screws at Canadian Tire
We enjoy our older non-slide XL45, was seriously looking for a XL2. Think we will continue to enjoy our coach and not upgrade. Thank you for this video. Looking foreword to hitting the road after the Quarantine, cancelled all reservations up through August so far.
Invaluable knowledge for those in the market for a Prevost! Take Care
Thank you Andrew for your videos. I really appreciate it. IMHO...get an XL and call it a day. I got a Wanderlodge and called it a day. No delam on a welded all steel bus.
Good to know that Andrew, I’m in the market for a XLII, Prevost should’ve engineered that major problem out years ago, or at least life time warranties for any person that owns it.
I like the looks of the riveted ones better anyway and I'll bet they are much stronger structurally.
You just save us a ton of money thank you .ps I touch and pull on all part see if they lose then Questioning it and get 2nd input on that part etc .
just one more reason i prefer the H3, no metal side panels. another great video Andrew, and as always, stay safe and give Sadie some love for me.
With problems existing on older coaches, has the company done anything to remedy this issue(s) on the new models?
Clearly none of these guys ever heard of a gorilla tape.
Aluminum duct tape would solve it, if you don't mind the look :lol:
*Flex Seal*
Delamm is a problem with ALL large motorhomes, not just Prevost! I had to pop rivets the sides over the tires on my Monaco, cost me about $15.00 and did it my self
Invaluable information for prospective buyers------or at least $50k worth! Saved to my "Prevost" playlist....for future reference. 🤙
What a unique concept to video audio capture. Two types audio is quite effective Andrew.
Man, that is such great info. Bravo man ✌️
Million dollar motorhome and your still dealing with delamination like an old bounder or Fleetwood. Please bring back good old American quality. Rivets never hurt nobody and they look good
It's "you're still dealing", not "your still dealing"
They hurt the manufacturer's bottom line, which is such horseshit. Also, these aren't a million dollars anymore. Most of these aren't even a half a million dollars now.
Mine would just be inclosed when it was in for service and fixing what fails on the previous trip. Well thank You for the heads up.
it's "enclosed", not "inclosed". Inclosed is not even a word.
Andrew very good!been in the rv industry a long time.most laminated bodies sooner or later will delaminate.been looking for decade for a xl45
Finally got a 95 the body and chassis age is like it was 5 years old.it is built like it could last 50 years.be safe thank you for the great and informative video s.
Love kicking the tire down the Road
Great video again Andrew, good useful information like you said kinda depends on how much heat the coach has been in over the years and cold but l look at it this way it’s just like buying a used home it’s always going to need maintenance to keep in top notch shape every thing breaks down in time
Pretty good video Andrew and thanks for the tips to look out.
Funny thing what’s up with the tire rolling along? Lol!!!👍
well that would do it for me, what I had heard is that PREVOST always took care and stood behind their coaches. Yep drive it until the sides fall off. or water gets inside the skins and grows mold in there.
Awesome information Andrew. This information really makes the Newell's the ones to buy for my hard earned money.
In my couple decades of piloting both Rock & Roll and private owned Prevost’s, from mid-90’s XL models, the early to late model XLII’s, to the newest X3’s, I’ve seen maybe a couple that had delamination issues, and they were 1st Gen XLII’s with a gazillion miles on them. Considering how much body flex these coaches endure, especially the older non-slide ones that had been rode hard in the leasing industry, I’m surprised I didn’t notice more of it, and I was a pretty OCD driver to NOT notice, if it was an issue with such a high occurrence.
Good answer. Not an epidemic here.
There's what we call Entertainer Coach and the Motorhome coach. The entertainers are basically tour buses which are mostly leased. The motorhome are the private coaches and those have two rows on chromed stainless panels. The entertainers just have the bottom row. I started working at Prévost last January and I like seeing this kind of videos... rest assured they changed there glue quite a while ago though so if you buy one that needs that kind of fix...they'll put the new glue that they now use to hold these panels
It’s not “chromed” stainless, it’s polished stainless. Have owned Prevost and MCI coaches and still do.
My first comments disappeared?I will repeat.i worked at motor coach when the fiberglass coaches first started.the problem was no spacers between metal frame and fiberglass panels so the Sika flex had no flexibility so the expansion and contraction from -20 to +100 degrees would break the seal and come loose.solutikn was to cut the seal loose clean it off put spacers and re seal.this was close to 20 years ago so IAM very alarmed all coach builders don't know or pretending not to know?
Why wouldn't you just rivet them? Couldn't cost more than a couple hundred dollars at most. You could even color match the rivets.
Cosmetics.
@Etienne That still doesn't seem like $30-$50K worth of labor.
High class problems.... Considering the cost of a Prevost, this isn’t that dreadful. Hence a thorough prebuy inspection is critical. Anyone that owns an aircraft can share similar experiences and learning lessons.
chipjumper Considering the cost, this should be completely unacceptable!
Agreed, I sure found out...
Rivet them up and be done with it.
never be as good as an airstream..
Bill Callaway if a Prevost is a 10, an Airstream is maybe a 3. Most of the pipes and wiring are under the floor on an AS. To repair you have to rip out the flooring. Not a good design. Very light duty.
@@capitandonzi2113 I got a 73. 31 footer I have not even replaced the refrigerator. Solar panels and a four battery pack.. You think you're prevost will last as long as my Airstream????. Cost as little to maintain ???pull it with 69 one ton Ford 4 wheel diesel van. 14 mpg. Yes I like prevost $ 800000 less I'll keep my airstream. Life is good enjoy your prevost.
Prevost should've stayed with riveted panels. As for coaches, I prefer VanHool's for the smoother ride quality Prevost don't have.
Your best trip RV/Plane/Yacht is someone else's that you lease/rent - if you're not using it nearly full-time. You notice most bands lease their buses for their tours, because they don't need to pay to have them sit between outings, and they can lease newer buses for each tour.
What a buzzkill for any would be Prevost owner. Thanks Andrew for bringing this up to our attention, this is why I like watching your YT channel. Every RV brand has its own problem, Prevost is not excluded. It is valuable information, might be used when negotiating the sale price of a 10+ yr old Prevost.
yes hes not the loyal Prevost fan boy i thought he was :) respect 4 keepin it real with YOUR fans!
@@NomadicSociety Simple equation here. Andrew Steeles main objective is revenue generation. He'll make a sales video for Country Coach & have the audacity to incessantly talk about upgrading the flooring & other condescending quips while they're paying him to market their coach. Why would he make SO many Prevost vids for Liberty Coach, then cast shade on Prevost? Duh! I'd fire him in a hot second if he tried that on my lot. Andrew Steele will talk about whatever gets him subscribers which = sponsor $$$....Pfffft.
The riveted buses are the commercial buses ( grey hound, Erie ) but the motorhome people don’t like the rivets so what you have is “ be careful what you wish for, you might just get it”
Not exactly. The difference is the year and model. XL were up to 2001 and both seated coaches and Motorhomes have rivets. When the XL II was introduced both seated and Motorhomes have no rivets.
Old school method with some rivets resolve the problem!
just prick punch it 1st!!! nothing worse than slipping when your drillin the hole and leaving a mark from you know where down your stainless steel beauty!
When you're spending big money on ANYTHING you must inspect diligently. It doesn't matter the thing or service for which you're spending; RV, boat, home, etc. Due diligence is what the lawyer types call it.
And yet, the most comfortable bus I've ever lived on. I dream of getting sleep that good again. Delamination may be a problem, but the comfort and style these units offer is well worth the cost
The don’t say how many hours It would take to glue the panels back but if it’s $50 grand at $100. Per hour that’s 500 hours and the glue and shop supplies might be a thousand! Customer is getting ripped off for the whole job!
They should have rivets at the factory like a airstreams
Probably cheaper and faster to glue it, and you know how corporations are. They WILL cut costs at the expense of quality.
Thank you for covering this. I'm looking for a new coach and this is something to consider for the future.
Nothing a box of self tapping screws won't fix
Thank you for point this out. What a shame.
Excellent info thanks for sharing.
Izzy
I use to drive Marathon xl working girl. My dad was in to rvs and we had friends that had conversions so seeing all those coaches gave me a big case of i wants !!!They are so pretty !!! I saw a Senator coach up in Montreal ( in the 90s )and the driver was trying to get to drive for them . I have been the the factory for Prevost as well.
That is why you should buy an older Prevost bus, 1995-96 or earlier. They are both better built with rivets and are not as not as expensive. Hopefully, Prevost will fix this issue and go back to making great buses with rivets. They used to be worth the money, now not as much.
One guy said it best. My idea of the prevost base has been shattered. I too will never list after them again either.
As one who is considering RVing full time, I appreciate this. A suggestion for the future is to go over some of the safety features by year or modifier. When I look at descriptions of motorhomes, I an drawn to items like collision avoidance, blind spot warnings, ect. Doubt that I am the only one. Another thing is do Prevost units have a sliding tray that covers the entry steps? If not, what prevents the passenger from falling down the stairs?
seat belt.
That "rivetless" laminated stainless adhesive, was and is made by the 3M family of products. Marmon, the classic bespoke truck manufacturer, used the same technology, on it's cabs and sleepers. Just like these Prevosts, the Marmon trucks have experienced problems over the years, with various aluminum plates delaminating. Only fix for it, is to remove the old 3M adhesive from each individual plate, and to re-apply the same fixative, and stick them back together. Marmon stopped making trucks, back in 1997. Trucks that have had the delamination problem, are usually those that have been exposed to the extreme Southern Summers.
Slap some FLEX SEAL/FLEX GLUE in those joints your good to go!
2 million for something that is glued together
Looks to me that the panels are put on the bus wrong because when you're driving the wind can get behind them that's what's pulling them off The fixx should be on the manufacturer
Excellent info Andrew thanks
A flaw in manufacturing means it's the builders responsibility to repair it, at their own cost.
So the moral of the story is, they just don't make them like they used to !
Very true! Prevosts used to be riveted. Cant delaminate if its riveted!
Even though they 100% could.
I'm pretty sure those side panels are aluminum, not stainless. Maybe one fix would be to add pop-rivets to reattach.
My boyfriend Randy used to buff them for Royle Coach, and they are ALL STAINLESS. No aluminum on the bus. Some buses were delaminated right from the factory, and Prevost came and replaced the panels.
Great video Andrew .... I was always under the impression that any prevost conversion is overpriced and everyone was telling me but prevosts are supposed to last a life time!!! Well, surprise, surprise aint that a fun killer!!
Even with proper storage, they are prone to delaminate due to the construction of these panels and sticking those tins on them with a glue ....I have seen even the old revitted ones delaminate here in the heat and sun of the middle east ...
It is time for these grayhound buses to come down to a more realistic price!!
NOTHING on the road is bullet proof. Especially with chug holes & change of weather. Prevost is still as good as it gets! Until then, consider how much better they are than what you drive currently.
Every one of our Liberty XLII coaches here in Stuart have already had the fix done by Prevost.
Yes, definitely one of the reasons you guys are able to command a premium. I hope you, all of the folks at Liberty Coach and your families are safe during this time.
Ron, do your coaches have a lifetime warranty when fixed by Prevost?
Very good to know this Ron. So to be clear, if you get a used Liberty on your lot that hasn’t been fixed, whether it’s showing delamination or not, you will not sell it until it’s been sent to Prevost for the proper repairs?
@@purschel6723 Not ALL XLII chassis need to have the fix. If it does not need it we are not going to have it done.
@@purschel6723 thank you for your original comment that sparked this video.
Do the Newell coaches have a similar issue with delamination? Thanks for everything you do Andrew.
No, not that I know of
Are there others as well that are not on a normal check list?
Six people could repair one coach in a day.lets say 3000 dollars.who gets the other 47000? Total extortion!!!
Sal Vastola nope sorry no paint job has to cost that much when the panels only have to be removed, cleaned, glued, then reattached. And don’t say technology isn’t available to remove and reattach those panels without a scratch, why because the tech been in existence for decades.
yup! ive been buffing a stainless panel from raw at factory and it got the panel soo hot it heated the glue and caused it to start delaminating,🤦 andrew,u know how many of these buses we've touched lol..long story short,i pay close attention to how hot i get the panels now🙂👌
Yeah buddy! The only way learn is the hard way 💪 hope you are doing well bro!!
I have read where the issue causes water to come into the living space. I can't believe that such an expensive product such as a motorcoach has such a serious flaw.
Andrew, when are you getting a PREVOST!?? That's the real question! I love all the PREVOST videos, from old to new ones, more bay videos and exterior stuff keep it coming!
I have been pushing his as well!!! Soon!!!
Pretty soon...I've been getting some serious bus envy hanging out witk Kyle 😎
We have a 40' Navigator, some day it's my dream to own a early 2000 non-slide XLV PREVOST ! but for now your videos are so cool to watch 😎 thanks for all the hard work you put into making this content.
RVing with Andrew Steele you’d think they’d comp you one......just for the advertising.
In my day, we were just glad to make it back to our coach. After 3 hours on stage our hearing was shot, we couldn’t hear those loose panels rattling. Cocaine is a wicked mistress.
OK, delamination is at least a cosmetic issue. Is it also a safety issue? Could the panel separate completely while driving?
Think about it for a minute.
and a water infiltration issue.. been there done that. sold!
I worked for ABC Bus 40+ years ago rivets are pretty much a 100% guaranteed no failure glue bad plan from the start
Still amazed, some old man, can walk in drop down a big wad of cash, and drive out in one of these things, no special license, or training required.
It's almost as easy as buying an AR-15. Almost.
@@zzanatos2001 Semi auto. Not full auto.
Who's your ideal employee you keep an eye out for when looking for a driver?
Looks like an old episode of Gilligan's Island where they used pancake batter to glue the S.S. Minnow together. Rivets look cool. Why ruin a good thing? Did they save on labor by switching to glue? I hope they don't make airplanes.
Thats why I like the riveted models, and they look more like a bus with the rivets, if you're a bus guy or gal, and not just a coach person. The reason I started looking at Prevost buses, was alot of the older professionally built bus conversions out there were neglected and still over priced, or just junk, if I am going to pay good money for something, I want it to look good, but so many of these just sit outside in the elements and deteriorate, which is sad, the paint goes south, all of the rubber seals rot and don't seal anymore, allowing rodents to get in, but they still ask a small fortune for them, yes I know, when they were new, they cost up to or over a million dollars, but they aren't new anymore are they? I have a feeling that, that is fixing to change, as more and more people are affected by the current financial and geopolitical situation that we are in. Sell em while you can.
great job what are some of the other big problems ?
Drive down road panel flys off halarious
Lol it should have been riveted from the factory... I'm sure they didn't mention that only glue is holding on the stainless steel..
That's not Delam! Those are gills. I worked on one for a very nice customer, who had a bunch of his interior mirrors coming off. You gotta be careful spraying new adhesive on them, you will peel the Mirror backing off. :-) :-(
Thanks,, I just found ANOTHER reason not to drop all that money on the premium quality bus.
Nice nice vlog mate did videoBob buy his PREVOST from that place 😂😂😂💕
Well I’ll just take my BlueBird and roll on home. Some do have a similar problem with the nose and rear cap. Fortunately they can be reglued fairly easy. And do get a survey when you sink money like that into shiny steel like that.
I would consider rivets installed on a coach with this type of defect! The heck with a continuous worry of siding failure and soring costs. Nope, there has to be a better way than just gluing the siding back on every 10 to 15 years. This should be a factory recall cost/problem NOT the end customer.
Just depends on how long your warranty is. No glue lasts forever. You prefer rivets; that's ok. Some prefer glue.
@@ST-ov8cm I'd go for the rivets, Airstream has done this right from the beginning and never have any problems, what Prevost actually did was basically just going the cheap way with the glue and hope it lasts until the warranty is up, what they're doing is like if one of us is being cheap with nails and just gluing the siding on our homes and not using any nails? I still love the Prevost coaches but this would sure be something I would definitely be looking out for especially if the repair is going to cost me between $30 to $50,000 big bucks. That's about 1 to 2 yrs of camping and travelling money for a lot of people.
Crazy Canuck What Prevost has done is give the consumer what they want. Most prefer the sleek look of no rivets, and right now the best way to do that is by lamination.
When I make a purchase like this I have to know that I will spend $2,000 on tires after so many miles. $800 on oil change after so many miles. $7000 on engine overhaul after so many miles, etc. And, $40,000 on re-lamination after so many miles.
I could opt instead for rivets, but it won't look as nice. I could opt for solid unpainted stainless, but it won't look as nice. I could opt for solid rubber tires (assuming they're available for this application) to reduce required maintenance. But, every decision comes with trade-offs.
@@ST-ov8cm What you are saying is that there is deferred maintenance and I agree that anything has to be maintained, however, I consider delamination a factory defect and NOT deferred maintenance for the owner. This has been going on for a long time and the manufacturer has known about the obvious defect but chooses to continue producing the coach without correcting the problem and not informing the customers that this will happen possibly to their coach and they will end up digging into their pockets and paying the brunt of the cost for repairs. That is called a factory defect; plain and simple.
Waders in Alaska So, if the paint starts peeling off of your house is that a factory defect?
A warranty specifically says that they will pay to repair any defects within a specific time period. Nothing, NOTHING lasts forever.
it just cost me about $8k to remove and reglue the two panels on my front slide. XL2, 06. sold it right after.. Don't let this scare you away from the XL2 but buy accordingly. I spent about $50k on prevost service over 5 years for this repair and a boatload on front slide out fixes including new seal. These are not cheap toys!