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Great video. The only criticism I have or maybe it's my lack of understanding is that I have no idea why you state to increase protein requirements above .8 gm per kg. Maybe I've missed something here. It'd be great to help me out here. Is there any valid science to state this point ?
We all know you're a liar Simon... There isn't a single study on earth showing the more carbs you eat and the less animals the better, not one! But there is evidence that a vegan diet, which foods are inferior in protein, calcium, zinc, iron, B12, K2, vit D etc.. there is evidence vegan is harmful ESPECIALLY to children who end up smaller and have lower bone mineral content. Not to mention a super high carb diet leads to CVD. Meat is superior for human development of the brain, muscles, skeleton for performance, recovery and longevity. This is why vegans/vegetarians have to compare their diets to the average American diet.. because that's all they can because diets with a mix of beef, turkey, chicken, salmon, quails, eggs, kefir etc alongside low-moderate carbs is superior.
Here the title says it all. " Dietary protein intake in midlife in relation to healthy aging - results from the prospective Nurses’ Health Study cohort Andres V Ardisson Korat M Kyla Shea Paul F Jacques A Heather Eliassen Walter C Willett Qi Sun All together now what does that say..midlife. Plant chompers and all the rest will be applying this within the overall context of for all, not the elderly. Who do you think will watch plant chompers with great interest, some young buck or as the author of that is .elderly, who?. The young buck will be watching sports based nutritional content, typically if they are interested in nutrition at all. Oldsters will be watching plant chompers by demographic study. I have not done one but can say that with confidence, a older viewing group. Look at the guy...what do you see? The elderly have specific protein requitements above that of a mid life person if they resistance train or are very active. This specific has been addressed in study. It is as per example the study of longevity itself. What is the longevity expected af a american child at age one as opposed to the life expectancy of a average american 70 year old? The one year old will top out at below 80 the seventy years old will be found above 80. Longevity study is a function of what...age. So study groups in longevity are defined by what...age groupings. You must specify midlife if you are to verse on the topic. Not one diet is proven best for all, and not all protein requirements are best for all age groups.Protein requirements you and I both know, differ significantly as attributable to assimilation capacity in variance with age. I am not disputing your overall consideration plant verses animal, but this must be stated. Dairy some conditions of cancer it is theorized are protective by dairy. That suggested by seventh day study results. Women do better than men longevity considered, and vegan woman live longest of all, but not vegan men.. Vegan men do not live longest under study of men only in consideration. So it gets quite specific as to gender and also as mentioned age. One addition worth noting we suffer different cancer types by gender as life ending events.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I wish the study separated out fish protein, considering Valter Longo seems to suggest mostly vegetables with occasional fish seems to be optimal. Maybe that's wrong or maybe that's right, but I don't understand why there's not a closer look at fish protein vs other proteins.
This is the best talk on protein I have ever heard. 👏💪🙏I am organizing a TEDx Longevity Day and need a talk on protein and longevity. I'm gonna see if one of these authors can give it, although you would give it better than almost anyone. 😎
@@lynnritchie231 I'm working on getting Heather Eliassen, a Harvard professor and one of the authors to give it. She looks like she'd have good stage presence: ruclips.net/video/SK9hO0FUaBc/видео.htmlsi=h7gJoHNNT1AsHigS
I listened to this yesterday on Spotify, awesome breakdown!! I really love your attitude with fact checking - no ego, respectful. The nutrition space really needs that, it can be so toxic for content creators.
I really enjoyed the video and your analysis. I’m not vegan I eat dairy and other animal products but I appreciate the truth. I’m a fan of Layne but he needs to respond to the things he either missed or didn’t represent properly. Thanks. ❤
Simon does such a good job of communicating scientific data. I love that he is so level-headed and unbiased in his interpretations. It means I can trust him. Thanks Simon!
Your channel is my favorite channel by far. I really appreciate your even approach and lack of hype. Really enjoyed your book The Proof is in the Plants. Thank you!
I wish instead of lumping all the animal-proteins together, they would analyze poultry, red meat and fish separately. It is a possibility that fish has some positive effect on memory, and in this case we will not be able to know that.
That’s certainly true which is why my statement at the end included fish, eggs and fermented dairy as the animal proteins that I would recommend to someone eating an omnivorous diet. In addition to plenty of. Legumes, nuts seeds etc
Yeah, we know saturated fat isn't good for you. And that comes with certain forms, whereas something like sardines have low heavy metals and omega 3's which are usually lacking in diets, all diets.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill In 2023, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations published a document named "Contribution of terrestrial animal source food to healthy diets for improved nutrition and health outcomes". Will it be possible for you to review it and make a video on it? There are many claims in that document: i. "A robust evidence base shows that milk and dairy consumption during pregnancy increases infant weight at birth and may also increase birth length and foetal head circumference" ii. "Evidence shows that consumption of milk and dairy products by school-age children and adolescents increases height and reduces overweight and obesity. Beef consumption in this life-course phase has been shown to improve cognitive outcomes." iii. "In adults, findings largely indicate that eating milk and dairy products, specifically yoghurt, has positive effects in terms of reducing risk of all-cause mortality, hypertension, stroke, type 2 diabetes, colorectal cancer, breast cancer, obesity, osteoporosis and fractures." iii. "A fairly strong evidence-base shows that lean red meat consumption has positive effects on muscle health. Other evidence suggests that milk and dairy products and other TASFs have a potential role in mitigating sarcopenia (muscle loss), fractures, frailty, dementia and Alzheimer’s disease."
What do isn't clear to me is the level of exercise this cohort typically did and whether that would impact the results in any way. My wife is a nurse of 40+ years, my daughter is a nurse of 15 years and i worked in the NHS for 20 years. We know and have known so many nurses over the years and is there is one commonality amongst them all, especially that particular age group, is that exercise, particularly resistance exercise, was never prevalent amongst them. Indeed, the vast majority did zero "exercise" whatsoever. Would an "exercise-heavy" cohort have the same results with the same dietary intakes?
Simon's not as easily sidelined as Lyle McDonald[1] made himself, so yeah it'll be interesting to see if there is a response and the form it takes. [1] speaking as someone who'll listen to Lyle before Layne, Attia, Huberman but after Simon, Gil, Chris and Garth Davis.
I really loved your analysis. As a data analysis analyst, I must say, you really got the grasp on the study from head to toe. It is important to reflect numbers as they are... I will follow you now! 5 🌟 to you!!
Yes, it is absolutely clear from the study that plant protein is way better than animal protein. However, your claim that people should eat more protein than the official medical guideline of .8 grams per kg of body weight is NOT clear from the study. The big benefits of moving from meat protein to plant protein might simply be due to avoiding the bad effects of meat.
Thank you, Simon, for this excellent analysis, and for not making this about personalities. As I have listened to you for some time now, it seems that you try to stay with the evidence, and not the perspective as a vegan. I have been vegan for years, yet I like to listen to folks like Layne who are not vegan. He is smart and focuses on science, yet he has a blind side. When I listened to his podcast on this, in my opinion, he kinda glossed over the results of the results of plant-based protein. I hope he watches your podcast and connects with you in the future. You have had some interesting conversations with him online, that have had considerable agreement. May that continue to be so. And may you continue to be an unbiased (as much as possible) source of honest plant-based and scientific wisdom.
Hello Simon , Thankyou for your work 👍 Being Vegan has been the best action I have ever and will ever do . Just proves that we humans do not need to eat animals for optimal health. Why should these animals be exploited, suffer and be killed when it’s not necessary for human health and survival! . Take care JP Sydney, Australia 🇦🇺
Meat eater live vasly longer in age and have the best life expectancy. Vegans are all deficient and need synthetic nutrients only found in animal products. What you said is not true. Lay off the pharmaceuticals and see how well you last. Should be funny.
Everybody is different. Many people have cured long-standing auto-immune diseases by excluding plants. As for killing, plants are alive too. Only plants can live from sun, rain and soil nutrients, all creatures have to kill something to live.
I was vegan, and was very unhealthy. Carnivore has completely changed what plants did to my body. I’m now 6 years carnivore, and very healthy and energetic, at 62 yo. ❤️🍀
As an elderly woman who doesn't eat a lot of food, I barely reach my minimum recommendation even when eating meat for protein. Switching to a diet that has more plant protein would mean getting even less protein, since plant protein sources are lower in protein and would displace animal protein sources.
Not true. If you plan your meals carefully on a plant based diet..you can easily reach over 100g of plant protein per day. I eat close to 130g of plant protein daily as a vegan and I'm 43, I strength train 4-5x a week. Getting stronger and leaner :) Cheers.
It is confusing especially with the DIAAS score of most plant based protein sources. This study seems to suggest it is the quality of the overall diet that is most important. I try to incorporate mixed animal and vegetarian sources, concentrating mostly on marine, dairy and plant protein with occasional lean red meat.
@@MrsSlimOnPlants hi there. I'm a bit confused. Not sure I'm getting enough protein. I'm vegetarian, not vegan. How do you get so much protein? Are these supplements powders etc safe? Thanks
@@Waterhorse1 hi I eat tofu, seitan, tempeh, edamame , textured vegetable protein as my primary protein sources. I also occasionally take vegan protein powder. I was raised vegetarian all my life & now turned vegan for 6 years. Feel free to check out my channel for tons of high protein meal prep or full day of eating videos with macros breakdown . If you plan properly it’s doable 😊
Correction. I work with nurses, and as a whole they are certainly not more health conscious than the general population. Based on my estimates, they are likely similarly health conscious compared to the norms. Plenty of inactive, overweight, stressed to the max nurses out there eating processed foods
I can’t speak historically about nurses, but I am attending cardio rehab in a major city and can attest that every.single.nurse running the program is overweight to very overweight. Since I excercise around the lunch hour, I see all the junk food and soda the rest of the hospital nurses purchase. Maybe the healthy nurses were fired back in 2021.
It's not a correction. The statement was based on the individuals in this study. So the data is relevant to healthy-eating individuals. Maybe it is true that, in general, nurses are just "normal" consumers. But that doesn't take anything away from this study.
This study started 30 years ago and has a different population and socio economic differentiation within the public space than the ones you are talking about. So no.. No "correction". You just do not understand how research population selection works.
This was really interesting and helpful. I like this format, the way you walk through the study step by step made it easier to grasp the important points.
Great breakdown! Shows why I follow your pod and I was waiting for a new study on animal and plant protein like this one. Also love how you engage with others who disagree with you but are open to changing their/your mind. Keep it up.
Thank you for this video Simon. Once again, feeling vindicated for going whole food plant exclusive at the beginning of the pandemic. So tired of all the flack I get from folks. This makes it all worthwhile! Wished I had started sooner.
I think the biggest problem with animal protein is Advanced Glycation End-products(AGEs) created in the dominant preparation/processing methods used in the US. People often cook meat in ways to bring out flavors produced via the Maillard browning reaction. This reaction creates AGEs. They are the result. However, there are cooking methods that minimize their creation. We can make stew, chili, soup, and other dishes where there is a high level of moisture throughout the cooking process that keeps the temperature reached by all parts of the meat low. If that is a little acidic (without also adding sugar), that's even better. Frying, flame broiling, BBQing, roasting and more, generate copious amounts of these harmful AGEs. They are also created through mechanical blending. Which is why most processed meats have high levels. But many other blended substances also have high AGEs like butter, cream cheese, mayonnaise, and margarine. AGEs are also created by fermentation, so I have to go against Simon's advocation of fermented foods. I know there are studies that show positive results from consuming natto and other stuff, I just suspect that you have beneficial substances along with harmful, but by more careful food selections you won't need those beneficial substances, and have to take the harmful ones with them. As such, I think it only makes sense to eat cheeses with very low fermentation or no fermentation: ricotta, cottage, mozzarella, string (it's just mozzarella). AGEs are strongly liked to heart disease and many other diseases of aging. One in particular you accumulate in your body because even healthy kidneys cannot remove it. This is glucosepane. These AGEs are easily measured in the body using a cuff that uses a frequency of light that causes them to fluoresce. But it is not approved in the US yet. For eggs, boiling is excellent, but scrambling is fine too. Frying an egg is not good. And vegetarians and vegans are not free of risk from AGEs. Roasted nuts and seeds, toasted nut and seed oils, and nut and seed butters are all high in AGEs. Raw pine nuts are still high. Raw cashew are also somewhat high. And you can easily make lots of AGEs using the blender. You want to avoid blending carbohydrates with either protein or fats. People often make the mistake of putting flaxseed in their mostly carb smoothie, or protein in their mostly carb smoothie. These can be in there, they just need to be blended separately and then just stirred together with a spoon. And any kind of frying makes loads of AGEs. AGEs lodge themselves in the proteins structures that the body uses for support. This stiffens these protein structures, increasing risk of ruptures, and hardens the arteries. AGEs are one of the causes of wrinkles on the skin. Crosslinking from radiation and damage to elastin from several causes, are the other main causes.
Any source about the carb/protein/fat in a blender? Don't see any form of heating there. What about having greek yogurt, flax seeds, oats in a bowl? Looks the same to me.
I would like to know where the research is on blending if you could provide that please. I do protein smoothies almost daily. I found this when looking for information on blending.doi: 10.1016/j.jada.2010.03.018 PMCID: PMC3704564 NIHMSID: NIHMS482555 PMID: 20497781 Advanced Glycation End Products in Foods and a Practical Guide to Their Reduction in the Diet I knew my BBQ was bad for AGE'S but is so good! Look at all the food that has it! I'm going to review this more. Thanks.
I doubt it. Dr. Garth Davis identified the main problem IMHO - insulin resistance. Protein maybe is not as bad as fat & sedentary lifestyle at inducing this resistance, but protein is pretty bad. There's a youtube channel called Fire in a Bottle that has been exploring this idea through a bunch of studies and documenting his own low-protein diet's effects on his ability to lose weight.
@@jft8994 depending on the blender's power the impeller friction can heat stuff up a lot. with dry spices I"ve felt heating up to almost-burning-to-the-touch. That could be as low as 60 celcius for me, don't know how bad it can get, and if that's enough to make AGEs.
Thank you so much for this video! I saw Layne's video and had some questions after it. So Thanks for answering my doubts about the plant protein part. This is my favorite channel here on youtube (alongside Rich Roll)
A incredibly helpful breakdown Simon. Thank you and keep up the good work please! You and Gil (Nutrition Made Simple) are the best nuanced, science-based nutrition experts at the moment.
Really great video/podcast on this one. Thank you for presenting it in a respectful and balanced way, rather than the easy way for clicks of disrespecting another content creator or saying this is proof of only one way to eat. One of your best yet.
Oh my God, what a great study analysis, today I realized that at 83, eating only meat for the last 12 years was a tragic mistake. 110 kg bench, 140 kg squat, 190 kg deadlift, and although 19% body fat I have 278 total cholesterol still without any diseases. If I had eaten only greens, how much better would I have been? How did I make such a mistake? From today, I will graze only ...🎉🎉🎉🎉
Dear psekasmenos8878, I understood your sarcasm, but please do not assume that you are without any disease. Having a total cholesterol of 278 is highly suggestive of familial hypercholesterolemia [FH] (any history of male relatives going back generations that died of heart disease or stroke?). A CAC test would be informative, and really informative would be a CT Coronary Angiogram (although at much higher expense...maybe $1.5 - 2.5k instead of $0.3k). I am living with an elderly mother (93) who lived with undiagnosed FH for the first 9 decades of her life and did not have her first heart attack until 92. But she is now living an impaired quality of life because of plaques in her coronary arteries (making any exertion difficult) and plaques in her legs, called claudication, that causes "wake-up" pain every night as the muscles and nerves in her legs starve for oxygen. I wish you the best of health, but please do not assume that undiagnosed disease is the same as absence of disease, especially when it comes to the most prevalent forms of disease in the USA.
Well said. there is overwhelming evidence eating grass fed animal meat almost solely is very healthy, cutting out all the toxins in vegetable matter and beans. I have eaten greens, vegetables and even tried cutting out meat and did not feel well at all. I am now cutting out the vegetables and upping my animal protein consumption. Plenty evidence people's insulin and glucose levels decrease which is a sign of being more metabolically healthy.
@@rbw137 Cholesterol is a myth, especially for those not eating the standard western diet of highly processed fake foods which is highly inflammatory to the human body.
Stipulating the results of the study are correct, how do we know if we have a positive effect "plant protein" vs a positive effect of "plants"? - the presence of the protein in the whole-food matrix of the plant. In other words: (a) If we supplement the animal protein with compounds from plants and healthy dairy such as fiber, polyphenols, fermentation pre/post-biotics, etc., do we see the same benefits as moving to more plant-forward protein sources? (b) If we supplement the plant group with additional leucine or saturated fat, do we see any reduction in benefits? We could also consider adding antinutrient compounds like neu5gc to the plant group, or lectins/oxalates to the animal group. If "replacing 3% energy from animal to plant protein increases odds of healthy aging by 38%" (which would only be a small total shift in amino acid profile of total energy), then ISTM that it less likely the protein composition itself, and more likely beneficial compounds in the plants or fermented dairy. [edit]: Although now that I'm catching up to "The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta.", it seems like there were really not a lot of beneficial plant compounds consumed.
Excellent analysis 👍🏻 I have long COVID and i have lost lots of muscle mass despite being under 40 . I wasn't sure on what type of protein to take and whether to do strength training
Norton butchered and misread this paper for his bias, i called him out for it in his comments and wrote a lengthy reddit critique post covering similar points.
Probably you are correct. And I don't want to believe that that's the case so it will be interesting to see if he responds or not. I tried to follow a wide variety of people even though I myself am a whole food plant-based eater but I want to always know what the science says. I found that Norton was a good source of what I thought was reliable information and I trusted him because he's known for changing his mind and making corrections as he goes. I don't want to believe that he deliberately misrepresented the information in the study or deliberately omitted things that he realized would go against his core beliefs! I guess time will tell let's see what he does
Very helpful, thank you for going through the data so thoroughly. Being 90% WFPB I love the way I am eating, but I respect that we all have to find our groove and that there is space for a varied approach.
Honing your craft with time, This was the best analysis so far IMO. The character assassination free format is to be commended as usual. ( I can't finish a LN video, the screaming and ad hominems are too much to take).
Thank you Simon, that is a quite interesting study. However i have some uestions in case you read this regarding the plots at 18:12 and following: MUFAs seem to do extremly bad. In all scenarios (total protein, animal protein, plant protein and dairy protein) it seems like reducing MUFA intake will give a benefit. Quite intersitng considering olive oil, avocados and most nuts are pretty high in MUFAs and rather positivley associated with health. Furthermore at 18:16 what is really strange is, that among all things one could swap for plant protein, SFA did still "best". Swapping out SFA for plant protein was associated with the smallest benefit for plant protein. Why are SFAs performing not way worse , but MUFAs did??
Probably because MUFAs are also in a lot of animal foods. Read this paper “MUFAs from plant (P-MUFAs) were reported to be inversely associated with total mortality, whereas MUFAs from animal (A-MUFAs) were associated with higher mortalit” www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8380819/#:~:text=MUFAs%20from%20plant%20(P%2DMUFAs,(TFAs)%20intake%20on%20mortality.
“ittle and conflicting evidence exists to associate monounsaturated fatty acid (MUFA) intake with risk of mortality. One possible reason is that dietary MUFAs come from both plant- and animal-derived food with divergent dietary components that may have different effects on health outcomes. MUFAs from plant (P-MUFAs) were reported to be inversely associated with total mortality, whereas MUFAs from animal (A-MUFAs) were associated with higher mortality (8). Few epidemiological studies have focused on the effect of trans-fatty acids (TFAs) intake on mortality.”
@@TheProofWithSimonHill thank you man, really appreciate this. MUFA as a proxy for animal foods definitely makes sense up to a certain point. Yet it is strange that swapping MUFAs yield more benefit for healthy aging than swapping animal foods or SFA directly. Well, seems like i have to make a delicious tofu shake with some sunflower oil now xD
Sorry, but I couldn't have found this comment without 'Find in page', CTRL+f on the desktop site of my mobile's chrome browser (there were too many comments on the app).
Simon, thank you for this informative and well-researched podcast episode. I really appreciate how you (and Dr. Nagra) go beyond what is presented by others and take time to explain how the data and studies show otherwise. Wondering how studies like this can propel Americans to start to debunk the myths regarding soy protein.
Possible reasons for the negative results in the animal protein group: 1. Didn't eat their protein from lean animal sources. 2. A high percentage of people in this group, perhaps also frequently enjoyed barbecuing their meat sources. 3. The majority of the people in this group, was also less health conscious in their daily lives, when compared directly to the people in the vegan group. Just from the top of my head... That said, I personally have a feeling that plant based food, when eaten correctly, is likely to provide the most benefit if heart health is the primary goal. Which saddens me, as I love my juicy steaks or pork chops! 😥 But science is not emotions! 😉
@@MT-sq3jo Yeah, he said they where nurses.....and, sorry to say, from my own observation visiting multiple different hospitals and MD clinics, and even having multiple nurses as family members.....the majority of them doesn't practice what they preach. And overweight or skinny fat, is a major problem in that group. So I feel I can safely say, that the "nurse" title, doesn't in any way warrant any guarantees of the person behind it, is above the average person in the general population, when it comes to living healthy.
@@danieljrgensen133 I agree with everything you said regarding nurses in general. Especially older nurses. They work long hours. Some are more physical in their particular job than others, but I don't know any that eat healthily, or exercise outside of work. Number 1, they eat at the hospital! 😢 We all know hospital food will kill you! And what they do know about nutrition, they learned from their medical training. Which we all know, will kill you! And it is shocking to see how many nurses are gathered at the smoking area out in the hospital parking lot, having a cigarette during their break! 😮
So if I need at least 150 grams of protein per day, how can I do that consuming only plant proteins? My gut cannot handle a pound of lentils or broccoli or tofu daily. Theres just no way I can get enough protein via plant sources. Also, there’s more to life than a perfect diet. Genetics play a major role in our outcomes regardless. Just don’t be overweight and exercise a lot and you’ll be just fine even eating lots of animal protein.
After reaching my 60s I started watching protein intake...glad I went with pea protein based supplements rather then milk based. Always thought milk was just for baby cows and tried to avoid it my whole life. As a youngster milk was forced on us from parents and dairy subsidy school lunches.
Great video / what i learned here is that as a vegetarian one should complete his daily intake of protein from whey and other dairy sources which is not shown to harm in any way and try to incorporate plant protein as much as possible , what do you say simon?
Newbie amateur studies reader: how do researchers take into account any other factor impacting longevity ? How to they separate the effect of let's say the lemon juice or olive oil used in a salad, that positively impact longevity as well ?
In this and most of the papers "Cox proportional hazards models" are used. Then it's up to the researcher and the data what you want and can model. You can separate dressing and vegetables from a salad if you have the data and if you want to. Or you can just assume the composition of an average salad. Or you just use "salad" as a quantity in your model. In general I find the interpretation of data not easy because you have to find out what things like "animal protein", "plant protein" and "MUFA" precisely mean in the model. And that's not reported in the main part of the paper most of the time. If you're lucky it's in the supplementary data. Multidimensional quantities like "plant protein" (i.e. increase plant protein can be archived by doing very different things) in Cox models means more like "typical plant protein". So all the possible plant protein is weighted by more or less how typical their consumption is in the population (it's more complicated). That gives you a one-dimensional quantity comprised of a weighted sum of individual plant protein sources.
Ok, just how much of your daily protein do you think should come from plant sources? Dairy? And finally how much do you think can or should come from poultry and red meat each? And why?
Thank you Simon. I like Layne and appreciate how hard it must be to 100% impartial and lazer beamed on the facts without any bias. In the interest of getting to the facts so we can all be healthier this is a great balanced breakdown and respectful. A quality that’s missing in a lot of high profile nutritionists. Thank you again.
Thanks for the great work, Simon. One question, though, about Dr. Nagra's talk about adjustment for fruits and vegetables. When he mentions that plant protein added benefits could be potentialised by other nutrients like fiber... Wasn't it adjusted for fiber as well?
I’ve been a subject in the nurses study since 1989-Harvard’s second group. This was probably the first group that started in 1976. They collect a variety of information from us, every few years, because they think nurses are better at keeping records. I’m not sure we are a healthier group…lots of junk and fatty food in the break rooms. Long stressful work hours do not equal healthy eating for most.
Well played with the information available. Recommendations were spot on for me. One of the increased risk factors in meat may not be the protein but saturated fats. I follow Dr. Taylor's hint to leave the extra fat of a pork chop on the plate.
The video should’ve ended when Simon claimed that this study can reliably report what people ate, because they tested this against 7 day food record. In reality this methodology of using food records and comparing it with what people reported showed a very low correlation in Walter Willet’s own study (only 0.21 for Iron and 0.44 for carbohydrates). A correlation coefficient between 0.7-0.9 can be considered a fairly good coefficient. This method is in fact proved that questionnaire based epidemiological studies CANNOT be reliable. But Simon chose to manipulate this and tried to give more credit to the paper than it deserves. He says scientific literacy is important. Yes it is, and if you read the study yourself instead of another vegan RUclipsr to interpret it for you, you’re going to realize how much politics goes into these resarch.
Does the study address leucine content of the users with heavy plant based protein intake? Does it control for the healthy user bias? Do we have any idea whether they are getting the same MTOR signaling and plant protein is better for aging, or if they are getting an altogether different amino acid profile and maybe leucine/MTOR is partially/largely to blame for the difference in outcomes? I follow Layne frequently, and my first time in your channel. Well done. 👍
What sticks out to me about this study is that MUFA showed the worst odds ratio of all nutrient classes examined. I feel like MUFA and high MUFA foods like olive oil, almonds and avocados have pretty invariably gotten a good rap in any study ive heard of. Am i interpetting this study wrong?
Source of MUFAs matters. Unfortunately they lumped animal and plant MUFAS together in this study. See this for more info. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30689516/#:~:text=Conclusions%3A%20Higher%20intake%20of%20MUFA,%2C%20but%20not%20MUFA%2DAs.
Essentially the typical replacement of SFA with MUFA in the studied population means reducing things like chocolate and adding animal fat. I wish studies would report what substitutions mean for the studied population in the main part of the paper. Instead you have to look in the supplementary data and more or less guess what the model likely did. Things like MUFA are multidimensional. You can increase MUFA by adding animal products or eating avocado. The model makes it one-dimensional by replacing the multidimensional quantity MUFA with the typical MUFA for the population (so something like "+animal products - lean animal products - chocolate+soda" which increases MUFA but does not change protein, carbs or SFA). There is also a difference in "what does the typical person do when asked to increase MUFA" (RCTs) and "what does a typical person with more MUFA consumption look like" (epidemiology). So even typical MUFA sources are dependent on how the data is collected on the same population. For those reasons it would be better to include the typical vectors like "+animal products - lean animal products - chocolate+soda" for MUFA in the main part of the paper. It's vitally important to understand what was even measured with "MUFA" or other quantities.
Im a complete newbie to this. Just an old man with little money trying to stay healthy. Would this be correct? Eat protein. Maybe eat diverse type of protein because it's better than a donut or Doritos. But, the best thing and more importantly is to do some form of weight training. Training, is the best thing you can do for your overall health and is second to nutrition. Weight training, helps the brain, heart, muscle, bones, vascular and is the opposite of being sedentary. This is my question. This my opinion from all the videos I've watched. Is it a correct opinion? Thank you for your video and trying to help the world.🙏✌️😊 Ps. I do eat my protein. 1 graham per 1b of body weight since im 62. Senior bodies are less efficient in absorbing nutrients. I take whey, peanuts and almonds. Is this ok?
Great video, Simon! I really appreciate your thorough analysis of the recent Harvard study on protein sources and longevity. I particularly agree with your emphasis on the benefits of plant-based proteins. The study's findings align well with existing research showing that plant-based proteins can reduce inflammation and improve cardiovascular health. Your breakdown of the optimal intake levels was spot on and crucial for those looking to balance their diet without overloading on animal-based sources. One area that I think warrants further exploration is the study's limited focus on the diversity of protein sources within plant-based diets. For example, the potential differences in health impacts between various legumes, nuts, and seeds weren't fully addressed. Additionally, the long-term effects of protein combinations and their impact on the gut microbiome would be an interesting angle to dive deeper into. The study's scope on exercise and its interaction with protein intake could also provide a richer understanding of how diet and physical activity together influence longevity. Another important point to consider is the connection between higher fiber intake and plant proteins versus animal proteins. The increased fiber from plant-based diets could be a significant factor contributing to the health benefits observed, impacting gut health, cholesterol levels, and more. Overall, your insights are incredibly valuable, and I look forward to more content like this! 💪
Does the study support the protein numbers of 1.2 to 1.6 grams of protein? Plant source, yes. But it's not clear to me what the total of plant protein ought to be...for oldsters.
It seems to support any amount of plant protein, but a limited amount of animal protein (lower the better). The paper doesnt cover the total protein requirement. Even the high protein consuming nurses werent eating more than 100 grams daily.
The one criticism I have of this (otherwise really interesting and informative) video, is that while most of the time the term "animal protein" is used to refer to protein from meat, there are instances (like at 6:26, 19:33, 22:44) where it seemingly includes dairy as well. That can generate some confusion.
6:00 Do you have data to support this claim? Healthcare workers (doctors, nurses, etc.) have no-better-than-average drug use over the general population. During recent hospital stays the female nurses appear to be as unfit as the general population, perhaps worse.
Intresting episode i do what works best for me when eat beans lentils got terrible gas bloating felt terrible feel best meat based i know few people on plant baded diet that have bad arthritis need new knees and hips be intreasting to see how age feel great very fit active
is it not. due to aging your digestion of protein goes down, to get the same amount you need to eat more protein to get the same amount that you used to. is it really more protein or the lack of good digestion.
Ok, I appreciate the analysis, but I find it all a bit confusing. It seems that plant protein is the best choice Dairy protein seems to have a fair amount of positive outcomes, but how can that be when dairy also contains saturated fat which is linked to negative outcomes? We eat whole foods, which emans we get the good with the bad, right? So on balance where does that leave dairy; is it healthy?
How are people replacing cals from animal protein to plant protein? Unless they’re doing it with powders, they’re not just replacing the protein are they? So how do we know if it’s the protein? Seems to be a lot of faith in the concept of "corrected for x"
From the study: "The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta" That's my main issue with this study. If you change 3% of your daily calorie intake (let's say 2500 kcal, so 75 kcal = 18.75 grams of protein) from animal protein, you exchange for example 83 grams of chicken breast (10 kcal), 63g of beef steak (101 kcal, assuming you choose a lean part) or 81g of pork roast (218 kcal) for 102g of cooked soybeans (175 kcal), 72g of peanuts (408 kcal) or 135g of dry whole wheat pasta (475 kcal). The listed plant protein sources are just not that good sources of protein. Should you eat plenty of them? Sure you should, but it's virtually impossible to meet 100% of your daily protein intake requirements from them. You will either need some diary or animal protein, if you want whole food options, or vegan protein supplements (which may not carry the health benefits from plant protein groups)
Why do think that all protein (including dairy and animal!) beats out monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFA) in all the substitution analyses, but it doesn't beat out saturated fat (or PUFA for that matter)?
Commented on this below. Some data suggests Monounsaturated fats in animal foods and plant foods have different effects on outcomes. This paper didn’t differentiate between the source of MUFAS in the analysis
So as mentioned in the video what is an example of replacing carbohydrates by plant protein? Because plant sources of protein tend to contain high amounts of carbohydrates? So what is an example of replacing carbohydrates by isolated plant protein?
Noted something interesting on monounsaturated fats in the substitution analysis, It seem if you substitute any protein including animal protein for monounsaturated fats you get tremendous benefits!! Do you have any view on why this is so?
I appreciate this breakdown...but where is the study with the cohort of people who eat only fruits and greens and tubers and seeds...and gets lots of resistance exercise...how do THEY do in comparison to any of those groups?
@@TheProofWithSimonHill oh...sure...you are right... I'd like to know the answer to my specific needs question...but my study is n of 1 ( I think that's how to say it). I don't think I will ever see the professional study I need or encounter answers to MY question. All of these studies are interesting and I do my best to extract meaningful info for me...but not too successfully of course. Thank you for taking time to answer my comment. I'm 80...work out hard...getting stronger and growing muscle slowly...but very skinny.
I like plant based protein, in my 20s I used a fair bit of whey protein and developed a sensitivity to it. I imagine whey falls under dairy protein. It would be interesting to see a video or study of what whey vs plant protein does to the gut flora, digestion. Healthy gut correlates to the brain function. Olive oil takes the cake for Poli Unsaturated Fats, at least in my world.
Good discussion of a very interesting and well-done paper. Question I have regards MUFAs (i.e., fat found in olive oil, avocados, etc.) -- Seems like analysis in paper (see Fig 1) suggests you do well by substituting protein for these fats, even better than other types of fats. Am I misreading the result?
Is there any data with respect to magnitude and proportion of animal versus plant for baseline? for example, if someone starts at animal protein at 90% and protein from plants at 10% and increases plant protein vs if someone already gets 50% fromeach?
I would have liked to see a differentiated comparison between beef and poultry, 28% red meat with increased saturated fat is quite a lot. We have previous studies that show favorable results depending on the meat chosen and we know that excess red meat has negative effects. I think that among the foods of animal origin at the end, low-fat white meat can also be taken into account considering the previous studies, but it is to be discussed. Anyway, 80% of the protein from animal origin, I don't even know if it can be considered an omnivorous diet because of how disproportionate it is, it seems more carnivorous already :)) I like the conclusions drawn considering that we cannot rely on a single study plus the factors that cannot be taken into account in the everyday life of each person, we can only try to have a balance.🙏
02:19 - They missed half the population :p Joking around aside, this was comprehensive stuff, you should/could do a couple of videos of this study to cover all the different nuances.
Simon can you explain how a 90 kilogram male optimising protein at say 1.5g/ Kg could possibly get 135g of protein into 3 daily meals using plant based protein. A WPI shake is an easy 30grams but that’s still dairy based rather than plant based. How much tofu can a bloke eat? The density of a 100g piece of beef providing 30g of protein is hard to beat.
What cut of beef? Perhaps you could show us the 3 meals you have that = 135 calories with as much details as possible so I can consider total calories. I can then offer you some replacements to consider
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I eat about 150 - 200g grass-fed Scotch fillet or a similar quantity of salmon or chicken with vegetables as an evening meal. I didn’t mention calories by the way - only protein. Breakfast is usually about 180g of Greek yogurt with a scoop of WPI & chopped Kiwi fruit. Lunch - an omelette with 3 eggs, cheese, spring onions, 100 - 150g chicken and avocado. Thanks for the reply and the show.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill Thanks for that information but how do we address the protein requirements through diet, especially for those of us over 65 years old that are not synthesising protein as well as when we were younger. Experts like Don Layman say it’s hard to achieve without animal protein. They also highlight the loss of lean muscle mass as a dominant factor in increased risk of mortality.
The lack of clarity in this study is really frustrating. We're looking at 30 years of animal consumption across thousands of people all lumped together. No differentiation between factory farmed beef, pork, chicken or wild caught & game meats. So much variance there. Also curious as to whether fiber intake was tracked. Safe to say fiber intake would have been significantly higher in plant protein considering the top 10 list is all tempeh, tofu, legumes, and a few beans. 35g+ fiber a day makes a big difference
Everybody's different. As someone who doesn't tolerate soy or dairy (or grains, even oats), I'm happy to eat (low-mercury) fish every day, and supplement my legume-heavy meals with LOTS of vegetables (think 1 lb of broccoli per meal) and smallish amounts of unprocessed chicken or red meat. Amount of exercise is the wild card. I do cardio AND resistance training, so my body is actually using the protein I eat - from whatever source.
What I'm curious about here is what specific foods they were eating. Specifically, if they were eating whole foods and getting a lot of protein, I think the only food that would cause this is beans So the results of this study could be not "more protein better health" but rather "more beans, better health"
How far do the positive effects of substitution go? I'm not exactly normal - if that's 70-80% animal sourced protein. I'm more like 20% milk protein (of ~100g daily total; milk is 2.5% milkfat) and a couple eggs 2 days a week - rest is plant. Does the study point to it being gainful to replace more with plant in my case?
Guys, if you enjoyed this video and want to see more study breakdowns like this please do two things for me. Click the thumbs up button and subscribe to the channel. Thanks!
Great video. The only criticism I have or maybe it's my lack of understanding is that I have no idea why you state to increase protein requirements above .8 gm per kg. Maybe I've missed something here. It'd be great to help me out here. Is there any valid science to state this point ?
We all know you're a liar Simon... There isn't a single study on earth showing the more carbs you eat and the less animals the better, not one! But there is evidence that a vegan diet, which foods are inferior in protein, calcium, zinc, iron, B12, K2, vit D etc.. there is evidence vegan is harmful ESPECIALLY to children who end up smaller and have lower bone mineral content. Not to mention a super high carb diet leads to CVD.
Meat is superior for human development of the brain, muscles, skeleton for performance, recovery and longevity.
This is why vegans/vegetarians have to compare their diets to the average American diet.. because that's all they can because diets with a mix of beef, turkey, chicken, salmon, quails, eggs, kefir etc alongside low-moderate carbs is superior.
When working to lose weight should set protein intake on the target weight or your current weight?
Here the title says it all.
"
Dietary protein intake in midlife in relation to healthy aging - results from the prospective Nurses’ Health Study cohort
Andres V Ardisson Korat
M Kyla Shea
Paul F Jacques
A Heather Eliassen
Walter C Willett
Qi Sun
All together now what does that say..midlife.
Plant chompers and all the rest will be applying this within the overall context of for all, not the elderly. Who do you think will watch plant chompers with great interest, some young buck or as the author of that is .elderly, who?. The young buck will be watching sports based nutritional content, typically if they are interested in nutrition at all. Oldsters will be watching plant chompers by demographic study. I have not done one but can say that with confidence, a older viewing group. Look at the guy...what do you see?
The elderly have specific protein requitements above that of a mid life person if they resistance train or are very active.
This specific has been addressed in study.
It is as per example the study of longevity itself. What is the longevity expected af a american child at age one as opposed to the life expectancy of a average american 70 year old?
The one year old will top out at below 80 the seventy years old will be found above 80.
Longevity study is a function of what...age.
So study groups in longevity are defined by what...age groupings.
You must specify midlife if you are to verse on the topic.
Not one diet is proven best for all, and not all protein requirements are best for all age groups.Protein requirements you and I both know, differ significantly as attributable to assimilation capacity in variance with age.
I am not disputing your overall consideration plant verses animal, but this must be stated.
Dairy some conditions of cancer it is theorized are protective by dairy. That suggested by seventh day study results. Women do better than men longevity considered, and vegan woman live longest of all, but not vegan men.. Vegan men do not live longest under study of men only in consideration.
So it gets quite specific as to gender and also as mentioned age. One addition worth noting we suffer different cancer types by gender as life ending events.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I wish the study separated out fish protein, considering Valter Longo seems to suggest mostly vegetables with occasional fish seems to be optimal. Maybe that's wrong or maybe that's right, but I don't understand why there's not a closer look at fish protein vs other proteins.
This is the best talk on protein I have ever heard. 👏💪🙏I am organizing a TEDx Longevity Day and need a talk on protein and longevity. I'm gonna see if one of these authors can give it, although you would give it better than almost anyone. 😎
Chris, high compliment from you. Thank you. Good luck with the longevity event - no doubt it will be a great success.
@@TheProofWithSimonHillHe was inviting you to give the talk.....Go on, you know you want to....😊
Hey Chris, why don't you give the talk, if Simon won't? 😊
@@lynnritchie231 I'm working on getting Heather Eliassen, a Harvard professor and one of the authors to give it. She looks like she'd have good stage presence: ruclips.net/video/SK9hO0FUaBc/видео.htmlsi=h7gJoHNNT1AsHigS
@@TheProofWithSimonHill
I bet you give it so good that the toes curl
I listened to this yesterday on Spotify, awesome breakdown!!
I really love your attitude with fact checking - no ego, respectful. The nutrition space really needs that, it can be so toxic for content creators.
Glad you enjoyed!
Ditto
I really enjoyed the video and your analysis. I’m not vegan I eat dairy and other animal products but I appreciate the truth. I’m a fan of Layne but he needs to respond to the things he either missed or didn’t represent properly. Thanks. ❤
Simon does such a good job of communicating scientific data. I love that he is so level-headed and unbiased in his interpretations. It means I can trust him. Thanks Simon!
Your channel is my favorite channel by far. I really appreciate your even approach and lack of hype. Really enjoyed your book The Proof is in the Plants. Thank you!
Check out Nutrition Made Simply and Dr. Matthew Nagra.
I wish instead of lumping all the animal-proteins together, they would analyze poultry, red meat and fish separately. It is a possibility that fish has some positive effect on memory, and in this case we will not be able to know that.
That’s certainly true which is why my statement at the end included fish, eggs and fermented dairy as the animal proteins that I would recommend to someone eating an omnivorous diet. In addition to plenty of. Legumes, nuts seeds etc
In my opinion a better metric would be processed meats, poultry and fish versus the fresh versions.
Yeah, we know saturated fat isn't good for you. And that comes with certain forms, whereas something like sardines have low heavy metals and omega 3's which are usually lacking in diets, all diets.
I am an Adventist pescatarian. Simon, love your channel. Keep up the great work!
@@TheProofWithSimonHill In 2023, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations published a document named "Contribution of terrestrial animal source food to healthy diets for improved nutrition and health outcomes". Will it be possible for you to review it and make a video on it?
There are many claims in that document:
i. "A robust evidence base shows that milk and dairy consumption during pregnancy increases infant weight at birth and
may also increase birth length and foetal head circumference"
ii. "Evidence shows that consumption of milk and dairy products by school-age children and adolescents increases height and reduces overweight and
obesity. Beef consumption in this life-course phase has been shown to improve cognitive outcomes."
iii. "In adults, findings largely indicate that eating milk and dairy products, specifically yoghurt, has positive effects in terms of reducing risk of all-cause mortality, hypertension, stroke, type 2 diabetes, colorectal cancer, breast cancer, obesity, osteoporosis and fractures."
iii. "A fairly strong evidence-base shows that lean red meat consumption has positive effects on muscle health. Other evidence suggests that milk and dairy products and other TASFs have a potential role in mitigating sarcopenia (muscle loss), fractures, frailty, dementia and Alzheimer’s disease."
What do isn't clear to me is the level of exercise this cohort typically did and whether that would impact the results in any way.
My wife is a nurse of 40+ years, my daughter is a nurse of 15 years and i worked in the NHS for 20 years. We know and have known so many nurses over the years and is there is one commonality amongst them all, especially that particular age group, is that exercise, particularly resistance exercise, was never prevalent amongst them. Indeed, the vast majority did zero "exercise" whatsoever.
Would an "exercise-heavy" cohort have the same results with the same dietary intakes?
If Respectful Call-outs were an Olympic sport, Simon would be a gold medalist! I so hope Layne replies.
Simon's not as easily sidelined as Lyle McDonald[1] made himself, so yeah it'll be interesting to see if there is a response and the form it takes.
[1] speaking as someone who'll listen to Lyle before Layne, Attia, Huberman but after Simon, Gil, Chris and Garth Davis.
I really loved your analysis. As a data analysis analyst, I must say, you really got the grasp on the study from head to toe. It is important to reflect numbers as they are...
I will follow you now!
5 🌟 to you!!
Great, balanced presentation. I also appreciated how you stuck with the facts--principles vs personalities. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Yes, it is absolutely clear from the study that plant protein is way better than animal protein. However, your claim that people should eat more protein than the official medical guideline of .8 grams per kg of body weight is NOT clear from the study. The big benefits of moving from meat protein to plant protein might simply be due to avoiding the bad effects of meat.
Thank you, Simon, for this excellent analysis, and for not making this about personalities. As I have listened to you for some time now, it seems that you try to stay with the evidence, and not the perspective as a vegan.
I have been vegan for years, yet I like to listen to folks like Layne who are not vegan. He is smart and focuses on science, yet he has a blind side. When I listened to his podcast on this, in my opinion, he kinda glossed over the results of the results of plant-based protein.
I hope he watches your podcast and connects with you in the future. You have had some interesting conversations with him online, that have had considerable agreement.
May that continue to be so. And may you continue to be an unbiased (as much as possible) source of honest plant-based and scientific wisdom.
Hello Simon ,
Thankyou for your work 👍
Being Vegan has been the best action I have ever and will ever do . Just proves that we humans do not need to eat animals for optimal health. Why should these animals be exploited, suffer and be killed when it’s not necessary for human health and survival! .
Take care
JP
Sydney, Australia 🇦🇺
Meat eater live vasly longer in age and have the best life expectancy. Vegans are all deficient and need synthetic nutrients only found in animal products. What you said is not true. Lay off the pharmaceuticals and see how well you last. Should be funny.
Everybody is different. Many people have cured long-standing auto-immune diseases by excluding plants. As for killing, plants are alive too. Only plants can live from sun, rain and soil nutrients, all creatures have to kill something to live.
greetings from a 70 year old very healthy woman, who is eating carnivore
I was vegan, and was very unhealthy. Carnivore has completely changed what plants did to my body. I’m now 6 years carnivore, and very healthy and energetic, at 62 yo.
❤️🍀
I’m a vegan once removed. The animals eat the plants and I eat the animals. They digest the nutrition for me.
As an elderly woman who doesn't eat a lot of food, I barely reach my minimum recommendation even when eating meat for protein. Switching to a diet that has more plant protein would mean getting even less protein, since plant protein sources are lower in protein and would displace animal protein sources.
Not true. If you plan your meals carefully on a plant based diet..you can easily reach over 100g of plant protein per day. I eat close to 130g of plant protein daily as a vegan and I'm 43, I strength train 4-5x a week. Getting stronger and leaner :) Cheers.
It is confusing especially with the DIAAS score of most plant based protein sources.
This study seems to suggest it is the quality of the overall diet that is most important.
I try to incorporate mixed animal and vegetarian sources, concentrating mostly on marine, dairy and plant protein with occasional lean red meat.
@@MrsSlimOnPlants hi there. I'm a bit confused. Not sure I'm getting enough protein. I'm vegetarian, not vegan. How do you get so much protein? Are these supplements powders etc safe? Thanks
@@Waterhorse1 hi I eat tofu, seitan, tempeh, edamame , textured vegetable protein as my primary protein sources. I also occasionally take vegan protein powder. I was raised vegetarian all my life & now turned vegan for 6 years. Feel free to check out my channel for tons of high protein meal prep or full day of eating videos with macros breakdown . If you plan properly it’s doable 😊
@MrsSlimOnPlants please tell me your protein sources?
Correction. I work with nurses, and as a whole they are certainly not more health conscious than the general population. Based on my estimates, they are likely similarly health conscious compared to the norms. Plenty of inactive, overweight, stressed to the max nurses out there eating processed foods
Sucks to hear this! Thx
I can’t speak historically about nurses, but I am attending cardio rehab in a major city and can attest that every.single.nurse running the program is overweight to very overweight. Since I excercise around the lunch hour, I see all the junk food and soda the rest of the hospital nurses purchase. Maybe the healthy nurses were fired back in 2021.
It's not a correction. The statement was based on the individuals in this study. So the data is relevant to healthy-eating individuals. Maybe it is true that, in general, nurses are just "normal" consumers. But that doesn't take anything away from this study.
This study started 30 years ago and has a different population and socio economic differentiation within the public space than the ones you are talking about. So no.. No "correction". You just do not understand how research population selection works.
This was really interesting and helpful. I like this format, the way you walk through the study step by step made it easier to grasp the important points.
I can do more like this if people want
@@TheProofWithSimonHill That would be great.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill That would be great.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill Love this as well!
@@TheProofWithSimonHill Yes please!
Excellent analysis, review, and summary of the study, Simon! Your work is always thorough and of high quality.
Glad you think so!
Great breakdown! Shows why I follow your pod and I was waiting for a new study on animal and plant protein like this one. Also love how you engage with others who disagree with you but are open to changing their/your mind. Keep it up.
Thanks George!
Simon and Mathew are both excellent communicators, they have a great talent for explaining nuanced topics
Ty
Thank you for this video Simon. Once again, feeling vindicated for going whole food plant exclusive at the beginning of the pandemic. So tired of all the flack I get from folks. This makes it all worthwhile! Wished I had started sooner.
Yo Simon, great video and lotta views. Ty for covering Longevity, in that it's one of my favourite topics
Glad you enjoyed it
One of the best nutrition/science videos I have seen in a long time. Keep up the noble work.
Wow, thanks!
@wendywitchner6790 Agreed! Nutrition Made Simple is worth checking out too.
@@polibm6510 Explain yourself.
@@polibm6510 Your trolling is incredibly impotent.
@@polibm6510 I am amused that you have no idea what the commonly used online term "troll" means. Look it up and stop embarrassing yourself.
I think the biggest problem with animal protein is Advanced Glycation End-products(AGEs) created in the dominant preparation/processing methods used in the US. People often cook meat in ways to bring out flavors produced via the Maillard browning reaction. This reaction creates AGEs. They are the result. However, there are cooking methods that minimize their creation. We can make stew, chili, soup, and other dishes where there is a high level of moisture throughout the cooking process that keeps the temperature reached by all parts of the meat low. If that is a little acidic (without also adding sugar), that's even better. Frying, flame broiling, BBQing, roasting and more, generate copious amounts of these harmful AGEs. They are also created through mechanical blending. Which is why most processed meats have high levels. But many other blended substances also have high AGEs like butter, cream cheese, mayonnaise, and margarine. AGEs are also created by fermentation, so I have to go against Simon's advocation of fermented foods. I know there are studies that show positive results from consuming natto and other stuff, I just suspect that you have beneficial substances along with harmful, but by more careful food selections you won't need those beneficial substances, and have to take the harmful ones with them.
As such, I think it only makes sense to eat cheeses with very low fermentation or no fermentation: ricotta, cottage, mozzarella, string (it's just mozzarella).
AGEs are strongly liked to heart disease and many other diseases of aging. One in particular you accumulate in your body because even healthy kidneys cannot remove it. This is glucosepane. These AGEs are easily measured in the body using a cuff that uses a frequency of light that causes them to fluoresce. But it is not approved in the US yet.
For eggs, boiling is excellent, but scrambling is fine too. Frying an egg is not good.
And vegetarians and vegans are not free of risk from AGEs. Roasted nuts and seeds, toasted nut and seed oils, and nut and seed butters are all high in AGEs. Raw pine nuts are still high. Raw cashew are also somewhat high.
And you can easily make lots of AGEs using the blender. You want to avoid blending carbohydrates with either protein or fats. People often make the mistake of putting flaxseed in their mostly carb smoothie, or protein in their mostly carb smoothie. These can be in there, they just need to be blended separately and then just stirred together with a spoon. And any kind of frying makes loads of AGEs.
AGEs lodge themselves in the proteins structures that the body uses for support. This stiffens these protein structures, increasing risk of ruptures, and hardens the arteries. AGEs are one of the causes of wrinkles on the skin. Crosslinking from radiation and damage to elastin from several causes, are the other main causes.
Any source about the carb/protein/fat in a blender? Don't see any form of heating there.
What about having greek yogurt, flax seeds, oats in a bowl? Looks the same to me.
I would like to know where the research is on blending if you could provide that please. I do protein smoothies almost daily. I found this when looking for information on blending.doi: 10.1016/j.jada.2010.03.018
PMCID: PMC3704564
NIHMSID: NIHMS482555
PMID: 20497781
Advanced Glycation End Products in Foods and a Practical Guide to Their Reduction in the Diet I knew my BBQ was bad for AGE'S but is so good! Look at all the food that has it! I'm going to review this more. Thanks.
I doubt it.
Dr. Garth Davis identified the main problem IMHO - insulin resistance.
Protein maybe is not as bad as fat & sedentary lifestyle at inducing this resistance, but protein is pretty bad.
There's a youtube channel called Fire in a Bottle that has been exploring this idea through a bunch of studies and documenting his own low-protein diet's effects on his ability to lose weight.
@@jft8994 depending on the blender's power the impeller friction can heat stuff up a lot.
with dry spices I"ve felt heating up to almost-burning-to-the-touch.
That could be as low as 60 celcius for me, don't know how bad it can get, and if that's enough to make AGEs.
R@@lowbarbillcraig3689
Thank you so much for this video! I saw Layne's video and had some questions after it. So Thanks for answering my doubts about the plant protein part.
This is my favorite channel here on youtube (alongside Rich Roll)
Glad it was helpful!
A incredibly helpful breakdown Simon. Thank you and keep up the good work please! You and Gil (Nutrition Made Simple) are the best nuanced, science-based nutrition experts at the moment.
Glad to hear it was helpful!
Really great video/podcast on this one. Thank you for presenting it in a respectful and balanced way, rather than the easy way for clicks of disrespecting another content creator or saying this is proof of only one way to eat.
One of your best yet.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Oh my God, what a great study analysis, today I realized that at 83, eating only meat for the last 12 years was a tragic mistake. 110 kg bench, 140 kg squat, 190 kg deadlift, and although 19% body fat I have 278 total cholesterol still without any diseases. If I had eaten only greens, how much better would I have been? How did I make such a mistake? From today, I will graze only ...🎉🎉🎉🎉
Dear psekasmenos8878, I understood your sarcasm, but please do not assume that you are without any disease. Having a total cholesterol of 278 is highly suggestive of familial hypercholesterolemia [FH] (any history of male relatives going back generations that died of heart disease or stroke?). A CAC test would be informative, and really informative would be a CT Coronary Angiogram (although at much higher expense...maybe $1.5 - 2.5k instead of $0.3k). I am living with an elderly mother (93) who lived with undiagnosed FH for the first 9 decades of her life and did not have her first heart attack until 92. But she is now living an impaired quality of life because of plaques in her coronary arteries (making any exertion difficult) and plaques in her legs, called claudication, that causes "wake-up" pain every night as the muscles and nerves in her legs starve for oxygen. I wish you the best of health, but please do not assume that undiagnosed disease is the same as absence of disease, especially when it comes to the most prevalent forms of disease in the USA.
Well said. there is overwhelming evidence eating grass fed animal meat almost solely is very healthy, cutting out all the toxins in vegetable matter and beans. I have eaten greens, vegetables and even tried cutting out meat and did not feel well at all. I am now cutting out the vegetables and upping my animal protein consumption. Plenty evidence people's insulin and glucose levels decrease which is a sign of being more metabolically healthy.
@@rbw137 Cholesterol is a myth, especially for those not eating the standard western diet of highly processed fake foods which is highly inflammatory to the human body.
Stipulating the results of the study are correct, how do we know if we have a positive effect "plant protein" vs a positive effect of "plants"? - the presence of the protein in the whole-food matrix of the plant.
In other words:
(a) If we supplement the animal protein with compounds from plants and healthy dairy such as fiber, polyphenols, fermentation pre/post-biotics, etc., do we see the same benefits as moving to more plant-forward protein sources?
(b) If we supplement the plant group with additional leucine or saturated fat, do we see any reduction in benefits?
We could also consider adding antinutrient compounds like neu5gc to the plant group, or lectins/oxalates to the animal group.
If "replacing 3% energy from animal to plant protein increases odds of healthy aging by 38%" (which would only be a small total shift in amino acid profile of total energy), then ISTM that it less likely the protein composition itself, and more likely beneficial compounds in the plants or fermented dairy.
[edit]: Although now that I'm catching up to "The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta.", it seems like there were really not a lot of beneficial plant compounds consumed.
Thanks for interpreting this important study more attentively than Layne did
Excellent analysis 👍🏻 I have long COVID and i have lost lots of muscle mass despite being under 40 . I wasn't sure on what type of protein to take and whether to do strength training
Norton butchered and misread this paper for his bias, i called him out for it in his comments and wrote a lengthy reddit critique post covering similar points.
Probably you are correct. And I don't want to believe that that's the case so it will be interesting to see if he responds or not. I tried to follow a wide variety of people even though I myself am a whole food plant-based eater but I want to always know what the science says. I found that Norton was a good source of what I thought was reliable information and I trusted him because he's known for changing his mind and making corrections as he goes. I don't want to believe that he deliberately misrepresented the information in the study or deliberately omitted things that he realized would go against his core beliefs! I guess time will tell let's see what he does
Very helpful, thank you for going through the data so thoroughly. Being 90% WFPB I love the way I am eating, but I respect that we all have to find our groove and that there is space for a varied approach.
Honing your craft with time, This was the best analysis so far IMO. The character assassination free format is to be commended as usual. ( I can't finish a LN video, the screaming and ad hominems are too much to take).
Thanks for that! Appreciate the feedback
Great job. Your interpretation makes sense and explains some of the paradoxes that we see across studies
Thank you!
Thank you Simon, that is a quite interesting study. However i have some uestions in case you read this regarding the plots at 18:12 and following: MUFAs seem to do extremly bad. In all scenarios (total protein, animal protein, plant protein and dairy protein) it seems like reducing MUFA intake will give a benefit. Quite intersitng considering olive oil, avocados and most nuts are pretty high in MUFAs and rather positivley associated with health.
Furthermore at 18:16 what is really strange is, that among all things one could swap for plant protein, SFA did still "best". Swapping out SFA for plant protein was associated with the smallest benefit for plant protein.
Why are SFAs performing not way worse , but MUFAs did??
Probably because MUFAs are also in a lot of animal foods.
Read this paper
“MUFAs from plant (P-MUFAs) were reported to be inversely associated with total mortality, whereas MUFAs from animal (A-MUFAs) were associated with higher mortalit”
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8380819/#:~:text=MUFAs%20from%20plant%20(P%2DMUFAs,(TFAs)%20intake%20on%20mortality.
“ittle and conflicting evidence exists to associate monounsaturated fatty acid (MUFA) intake with risk of mortality. One possible reason is that dietary MUFAs come from both plant- and animal-derived food with divergent dietary components that may have different effects on health outcomes. MUFAs from plant (P-MUFAs) were reported to be inversely associated with total mortality, whereas MUFAs from animal (A-MUFAs) were associated with higher mortality (8). Few epidemiological studies have focused on the effect of trans-fatty acids (TFAs) intake on mortality.”
@@TheProofWithSimonHill thank you man, really appreciate this. MUFA as a proxy for animal foods definitely makes sense up to a certain point. Yet it is strange that swapping MUFAs yield more benefit for healthy aging than swapping animal foods or SFA directly. Well, seems like i have to make a delicious tofu shake with some sunflower oil now xD
Sorry, but I couldn't have found this comment without 'Find in page', CTRL+f on the desktop site of my mobile's chrome browser (there were too many comments on the app).
Simon, thank you for this informative and well-researched podcast episode. I really appreciate how you (and Dr. Nagra) go beyond what is presented by others and take time to explain how the data and studies show otherwise. Wondering how studies like this can propel Americans to start to debunk the myths regarding soy protein.
Possible reasons for the negative results in the animal protein group:
1. Didn't eat their protein from lean animal sources.
2. A high percentage of people in this group, perhaps also frequently enjoyed barbecuing their meat sources.
3. The majority of the people in this group, was also less health conscious in their daily lives, when compared directly to the people in the vegan group.
Just from the top of my head...
That said, I personally have a feeling that plant based food, when eaten correctly, is likely to provide the most benefit if heart health is the primary goal.
Which saddens me, as I love my juicy steaks or pork chops! 😥
But science is not emotions! 😉
I believe the video mentioned that the cohort was a health conscious group with very low highly processed meat intake
@@MT-sq3jo Yeah, he said they where nurses.....and, sorry to say, from my own observation visiting multiple different hospitals and MD clinics, and even having multiple nurses as family members.....the majority of them doesn't practice what they preach. And overweight or skinny fat, is a major problem in that group.
So I feel I can safely say, that the "nurse" title, doesn't in any way warrant any guarantees of the person behind it, is above the average person in the general population, when it comes to living healthy.
@@danieljrgensen133 I agree with everything you said regarding nurses in general. Especially older nurses. They work long hours. Some are more physical in their particular job than others, but I don't know any that eat healthily, or exercise outside of work. Number 1, they eat at the hospital! 😢 We all know hospital food will kill you! And what they do know about nutrition, they learned from their medical training. Which we all know, will kill you!
And it is shocking to see how many nurses are gathered at the smoking area out in the hospital parking lot, having a cigarette during their break! 😮
@@danieljrgensen133nurses aren't known to be the most physically active, either. Stress and body jobs and all that.
Thanks Simon for clarifying the study; great work.
My pleasure!
This is awesome!! Love how this video is taking off in views, too! 👏 Fabulous job, you are excellent at these types of videos.
Thanks Michelle
So if I need at least 150 grams of protein per day, how can I do that consuming only plant proteins? My gut cannot handle a pound of lentils or broccoli or tofu daily. Theres just no way I can get enough protein via plant sources. Also, there’s more to life than a perfect diet. Genetics play a major role in our outcomes regardless. Just don’t be overweight and exercise a lot and you’ll be just fine even eating lots of animal protein.
"Just don’t be overweight and exercise a lot and you’ll be just fine even eating lots of animal protein." - The study says otherwise
Most surprising thing here to me was the significant (more than any other nutrient) benefits of replacing MUFA with any type of protein? Any thoughts?
Awesome analysis! Hitting the Layne on his head, I'd love to see his response. Doubt he will though...
Thanks
After reaching my 60s I started watching protein intake...glad I went with pea protein based supplements rather then milk based. Always thought milk was just for baby cows and tried to avoid it my whole life. As a youngster milk was forced on us from parents and dairy subsidy school lunches.
Great video / what i learned here is that as a vegetarian one should complete his daily intake of protein from whey and other dairy sources which is not shown to harm in any way and try to incorporate plant protein as much as possible , what do you say simon?
Great new format! Production quality is on point
Glad you think so!
Newbie amateur studies reader: how do researchers take into account any other factor impacting longevity ? How to they separate the effect of let's say the lemon juice or olive oil used in a salad, that positively impact longevity as well ?
In this and most of the papers "Cox proportional hazards models" are used. Then it's up to the researcher and the data what you want and can model.
You can separate dressing and vegetables from a salad if you have the data and if you want to. Or you can just assume the composition of an average salad. Or you just use "salad" as a quantity in your model.
In general I find the interpretation of data not easy because you have to find out what things like "animal protein", "plant protein" and "MUFA" precisely mean in the model. And that's not reported in the main part of the paper most of the time. If you're lucky it's in the supplementary data.
Multidimensional quantities like "plant protein" (i.e. increase plant protein can be archived by doing very different things) in Cox models means more like "typical plant protein". So all the possible plant protein is weighted by more or less how typical their consumption is in the population (it's more complicated). That gives you a one-dimensional quantity comprised of a weighted sum of individual plant protein sources.
Very Eye-opening video. Thank you.
My pleasure!
Ok, just how much of your daily protein do you think should come from plant sources? Dairy? And finally how much do you think can or should come from poultry and red meat each? And why?
Thank you Simon. I like Layne and appreciate how hard it must be to 100% impartial and lazer beamed on the facts without any bias.
In the interest of getting to the facts so we can all be healthier this is a great balanced breakdown and respectful. A quality that’s missing in a lot of high profile nutritionists. Thank you again.
Thanks for the great work, Simon. One question, though, about Dr. Nagra's talk about adjustment for fruits and vegetables. When he mentions that plant protein added benefits could be potentialised by other nutrients like fiber... Wasn't it adjusted for fiber as well?
I’ve been a subject in the nurses study since 1989-Harvard’s second group. This was probably the first group that started in 1976. They collect a variety of information from us, every few years, because they think nurses are better at keeping records. I’m not sure we are a healthier group…lots of junk and fatty food in the break rooms. Long stressful work hours do not equal healthy eating for most.
Thanks for the really in depth analisis.
Well played with the information available. Recommendations were spot on for me. One of the increased risk factors in meat may not be the protein but saturated fats. I follow Dr. Taylor's hint to leave the extra fat of a pork chop on the plate.
The video should’ve ended when Simon claimed that this study can reliably report what people ate, because they tested this against 7 day food record. In reality this methodology of using food records and comparing it with what people reported showed a very low correlation in Walter Willet’s own study (only 0.21 for Iron and 0.44 for carbohydrates).
A correlation coefficient between 0.7-0.9 can be considered a fairly good coefficient. This method is in fact proved that questionnaire based epidemiological studies CANNOT be reliable.
But Simon chose to manipulate this and tried to give more credit to the paper than it deserves.
He says scientific literacy is important. Yes it is, and if you read the study yourself instead of another vegan RUclipsr to interpret it for you, you’re going to realize how much politics goes into these resarch.
Does the study address leucine content of the users with heavy plant based protein intake? Does it control for the healthy user bias? Do we have any idea whether they are getting the same MTOR signaling and plant protein is better for aging, or if they are getting an altogether different amino acid profile and maybe leucine/MTOR is partially/largely to blame for the difference in outcomes?
I follow Layne frequently, and my first time in your channel. Well done. 👍
controlling for healthy user bias would be irrelevant because they already control for the habits that are unhealthy
Fantastic calm and clear explanation Simon. Any insights on why MUFAs compared so unfavourably in the forest plots?
See my comments below on this! Thanks
What sticks out to me about this study is that MUFA showed the worst odds ratio of all nutrient classes examined. I feel like MUFA and high MUFA foods like olive oil, almonds and avocados have pretty invariably gotten a good rap in any study ive heard of. Am i interpetting this study wrong?
Source of MUFAs matters. Unfortunately they lumped animal and plant MUFAS together in this study.
See this for more info.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30689516/#:~:text=Conclusions%3A%20Higher%20intake%20of%20MUFA,%2C%20but%20not%20MUFA%2DAs.
Essentially the typical replacement of SFA with MUFA in the studied population means reducing things like chocolate and adding animal fat.
I wish studies would report what substitutions mean for the studied population in the main part of the paper.
Instead you have to look in the supplementary data and more or less guess what the model likely did.
Things like MUFA are multidimensional. You can increase MUFA by adding animal products or eating avocado. The model makes it one-dimensional by replacing the multidimensional quantity MUFA with the typical MUFA for the population (so something like "+animal products - lean animal products - chocolate+soda" which increases MUFA but does not change protein, carbs or SFA).
There is also a difference in "what does the typical person do when asked to increase MUFA" (RCTs) and "what does a typical person with more MUFA consumption look like" (epidemiology).
So even typical MUFA sources are dependent on how the data is collected on the same population.
For those reasons it would be better to include the typical vectors like "+animal products - lean animal products - chocolate+soda" for MUFA in the main part of the paper. It's vitally important to understand what was even measured with "MUFA" or other quantities.
So is it a good idea to take what Layne says with a grain of salt since he didn’t seem to properly analyze and convey the study?
I think this is somewhat confusing but your general recommendations are fairly solid.
Loved this one! The shorter breakdown was a great change of pace 👍
Glad to hear that!
Im a complete newbie to this. Just an old man with little money trying to stay healthy.
Would this be correct? Eat protein. Maybe eat diverse type of protein because it's better than a donut or Doritos.
But, the best thing and more importantly is to do some form of weight training. Training, is the best thing you can do for your overall health and is second to nutrition.
Weight training, helps the brain, heart, muscle, bones, vascular and is the opposite of being sedentary.
This is my question.
This my opinion from all the videos I've watched.
Is it a correct opinion?
Thank you for your video and trying to help the world.🙏✌️😊
Ps. I do eat my protein. 1 graham per 1b of body weight since im 62. Senior bodies are less efficient in absorbing nutrients.
I take whey, peanuts and almonds. Is this ok?
Great video, Simon! I really appreciate your thorough analysis of the recent Harvard study on protein sources and longevity.
I particularly agree with your emphasis on the benefits of plant-based proteins. The study's findings align well with existing research showing that plant-based proteins can reduce inflammation and improve cardiovascular health. Your breakdown of the optimal intake levels was spot on and crucial for those looking to balance their diet without overloading on animal-based sources.
One area that I think warrants further exploration is the study's limited focus on the diversity of protein sources within plant-based diets. For example, the potential differences in health impacts between various legumes, nuts, and seeds weren't fully addressed. Additionally, the long-term effects of protein combinations and their impact on the gut microbiome would be an interesting angle to dive deeper into. The study's scope on exercise and its interaction with protein intake could also provide a richer understanding of how diet and physical activity together influence longevity.
Another important point to consider is the connection between higher fiber intake and plant proteins versus animal proteins. The increased fiber from plant-based diets could be a significant factor contributing to the health benefits observed, impacting gut health, cholesterol levels, and more.
Overall, your insights are incredibly valuable, and I look forward to more content like this! 💪
Does the study support the protein numbers of 1.2 to 1.6 grams of protein? Plant source, yes. But it's not clear to me what the total of plant protein ought to be...for oldsters.
It seems to support any amount of plant protein, but a limited amount of animal protein (lower the better). The paper doesnt cover the total protein requirement. Even the high protein consuming nurses werent eating more than 100 grams daily.
The one criticism I have of this (otherwise really interesting and informative) video, is that while most of the time the term "animal protein" is used to refer to protein from meat, there are instances (like at 6:26, 19:33, 22:44) where it seemingly includes dairy as well.
That can generate some confusion.
They were analysed as two distinct food categories - animal protein and dairy protein. That’s why I mentioned them separately at times
Thank you! Much appreciated overview and analysis of the study and topic. ❤
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent summary, succinctly and expertly explained, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Nice analysis
Thank you
6:00 Do you have data to support this claim? Healthcare workers (doctors, nurses, etc.) have no-better-than-average drug use over the general population. During recent hospital stays the female nurses appear to be as unfit as the general population, perhaps worse.
Intresting episode i do what works best for me when eat beans lentils got terrible gas bloating felt terrible feel best meat based i know few people on plant baded diet that have bad arthritis need new knees and hips be intreasting to see how age feel great very fit active
With this voice you can tell me anything. 😎 Inviting my favorite muscleman doc is a plus. I subbed.
Welcome aboard!
is it not. due to aging your digestion of protein goes down, to get the same amount you need to eat more protein to get the same amount that you used to. is it really more protein or the lack of good digestion.
Ok, I appreciate the analysis, but I find it all a bit confusing.
It seems that plant protein is the best choice
Dairy protein seems to have a fair amount of positive outcomes, but how can that be when dairy also contains saturated fat which is linked to negative outcomes? We eat whole foods, which emans we get the good with the bad, right? So on balance where does that leave dairy; is it healthy?
What were the principals plant foods in diet in this cohort?
Would love to see you and Layne discuss further
How are people replacing cals from animal protein to plant protein? Unless they’re doing it with powders, they’re not just replacing the protein are they? So how do we know if it’s the protein? Seems to be a lot of faith in the concept of "corrected for x"
From the study: "The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta"
That's my main issue with this study. If you change 3% of your daily calorie intake (let's say 2500 kcal, so 75 kcal = 18.75 grams of protein) from animal protein, you exchange for example 83 grams of chicken breast (10 kcal), 63g of beef steak (101 kcal, assuming you choose a lean part) or 81g of pork roast (218 kcal) for 102g of cooked soybeans (175 kcal), 72g of peanuts (408 kcal) or 135g of dry whole wheat pasta (475 kcal).
The listed plant protein sources are just not that good sources of protein. Should you eat plenty of them? Sure you should, but it's virtually impossible to meet 100% of your daily protein intake requirements from them. You will either need some diary or animal protein, if you want whole food options, or vegan protein supplements (which may not carry the health benefits from plant protein groups)
Why do think that all protein (including dairy and animal!) beats out monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFA) in all the substitution analyses, but it doesn't beat out saturated fat (or PUFA for that matter)?
Commented on this below. Some data suggests Monounsaturated fats in animal foods and plant foods have different effects on outcomes. This paper didn’t differentiate between the source of MUFAS in the analysis
@@TheProofWithSimonHillok great, so I can keep using olive oil
So as mentioned in the video what is an example of replacing carbohydrates by plant protein? Because plant sources of protein tend to contain high amounts of carbohydrates?
So what is an example of replacing carbohydrates by isolated plant protein?
Noted something interesting on monounsaturated fats in the substitution analysis, It seem if you substitute any protein including animal protein for monounsaturated fats you get tremendous benefits!! Do you have any view on why this is so?
I appreciate this breakdown...but where is the study with the cohort of people who eat only fruits and greens and tubers and seeds...and gets lots of resistance exercise...how do THEY do in comparison to any of those groups?
That wasn’t the study question. You’re wanting to know how a very specific diet fairs long term for healthy aging?
@@TheProofWithSimonHill oh...sure...you are right... I'd like to know the answer to my specific needs question...but my study is n of 1 ( I think that's how to say it). I don't think I will ever see the professional study I need or encounter answers to MY question. All of these studies are interesting and I do my best to extract meaningful info for me...but not too successfully of course. Thank you for taking time to answer my comment. I'm 80...work out hard...getting stronger and growing muscle slowly...but very skinny.
If regular physical activities is done, is there a need of more protein?
when calculating the protein you should have, do you use your present weight, or what should be your normal weight?
or lean body mass?
I like plant based protein, in my 20s I used a fair bit of whey protein and developed a sensitivity to it. I imagine whey falls under dairy protein. It would be interesting to see a video or study of what whey vs plant protein does to the gut flora, digestion. Healthy gut correlates to the brain function. Olive oil takes the cake for Poli Unsaturated Fats, at least in my world.
Good discussion of a very interesting and well-done paper. Question I have regards MUFAs (i.e., fat found in olive oil, avocados, etc.) -- Seems like analysis in paper (see Fig 1) suggests you do well by substituting protein for these fats, even better than other types of fats. Am I misreading the result?
Excellent video! So reasoned and careful. A must for aging folk. ❤
Interesting. I rarely hear that whey and leucine are negatively associated with longevity.
Is there any data with respect to magnitude and proportion of animal versus plant for baseline? for example, if someone starts at animal protein at 90% and protein from plants at 10% and increases plant protein vs if someone already gets 50% fromeach?
I follow you, and I follow Layne. I would love for this to be followed up on an upcoming podcast.
I would have liked to see a differentiated comparison between beef and poultry, 28% red meat with increased saturated fat is quite a lot.
We have previous studies that show favorable results depending on the meat chosen and we know that excess red meat has negative effects. I think that among the foods of animal origin at the end, low-fat white meat can also be taken into account considering the previous studies, but it is to be discussed.
Anyway, 80% of the protein from animal origin, I don't even know if it can be considered an omnivorous diet because of how disproportionate it is, it seems more carnivorous already :))
I like the conclusions drawn considering that we cannot rely on a single study plus the factors that cannot be taken into account in the everyday life of each person, we can only try to have a balance.🙏
02:19 - They missed half the population :p
Joking around aside, this was comprehensive stuff, you should/could do a couple of videos of this study to cover all the different nuances.
Simon can you explain how a 90 kilogram male optimising protein at say 1.5g/ Kg could possibly get 135g of protein into 3 daily meals using plant based protein. A WPI shake is an easy 30grams but that’s still dairy based rather than plant based. How much tofu can a bloke eat? The density of a 100g piece of beef providing 30g of protein is hard to beat.
A pea/rice protein blend gives similar grams of protein per calorie to a WPI. So that answers the protein isolate part of your question.
What cut of beef?
Perhaps you could show us the 3 meals you have that = 135 calories with as much details as possible so I can consider total calories.
I can then offer you some replacements to consider
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I eat about 150 - 200g grass-fed Scotch fillet or a similar quantity of salmon or chicken with vegetables as an evening meal. I didn’t mention calories by the way - only protein.
Breakfast is usually about 180g of Greek yogurt with a scoop of WPI & chopped Kiwi fruit.
Lunch - an omelette with 3 eggs, cheese, spring onions, 100 - 150g chicken and avocado.
Thanks for the reply and the show.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill Thanks for that information but how do we address the protein requirements through diet, especially for those of us over 65 years old that are not synthesising protein as well as when we were younger. Experts like Don Layman say it’s hard to achieve without animal protein. They also highlight the loss of lean muscle mass as a dominant factor in increased risk of mortality.
The lack of clarity in this study is really frustrating. We're looking at 30 years of animal consumption across thousands of people all lumped together. No differentiation between factory farmed beef, pork, chicken or wild caught & game meats. So much variance there. Also curious as to whether fiber intake was tracked. Safe to say fiber intake would have been significantly higher in plant protein considering the top 10 list is all tempeh, tofu, legumes, and a few beans. 35g+ fiber a day makes a big difference
Great work Simon
Dr Georgia Ede would b a good one to talk about this protein issue
Everybody's different. As someone who doesn't tolerate soy or dairy (or grains, even oats), I'm happy to eat (low-mercury) fish every day, and supplement my legume-heavy meals with LOTS of vegetables (think 1 lb of broccoli per meal) and smallish amounts of unprocessed chicken or red meat. Amount of exercise is the wild card. I do cardio AND resistance training, so my body is actually using the protein I eat - from whatever source.
What I'm curious about here is what specific foods they were eating.
Specifically, if they were eating whole foods and getting a lot of protein, I think the only food that would cause this is beans
So the results of this study could be not
"more protein better health"
but rather
"more beans, better health"
amazing work! thank you!
How far do the positive effects of substitution go? I'm not exactly normal - if that's 70-80% animal sourced protein. I'm more like 20% milk protein (of ~100g daily total; milk is 2.5% milkfat) and a couple eggs 2 days a week - rest is plant. Does the study point to it being gainful to replace more with plant in my case?
Another great video, Simon!
Glad you enjoyed it