Oh man, I chose this as my first ever Pathfinder class. Playing a dwarf Lore Oracle + Living Vessel Archetype and I'm terrified but excited... thank you for the fantastically educational video!
Only 3 minutes in but man. You deserve more subs. With the way you list out the proficeincies andhow you have the video broken down into parts. Shows how much care you put into making the video.
Ive been playing a ton of most of the mysteries and I cannot reccomend this class enough! Managing and understanding your curse is just another layer of resource managment that has some pretty interesting implications even after combat/in RP. All around my favorite class of the game.
Yeah, I opted not to talk too much about the curse flavor effects, mostly just to keep things from running too long, but also because I sort of wanted to keep them as pleasant surprises when people look into the class and get ready to play them. The strong RP elements tied to Mysteries makes them very interesting and has me eager to see new mysteries added!
@@CollectiveArcana It is a difficult position to be in with this class specifically as there are so many little intricacies haha. In all my testing im actually pretty satisfied with the ones we have already, they can all be built around to levarage their curses to pretty massive positives. the only one id change a bit is ancestors by houseruling that the player can choose the ancestor when refocusing, otherwise it might be too punishing in a day of intrigue or gauntlet running to suddenly fail checks to DC flat fails from your ancestor not being the skill action.
@@CollectiveArcana It is fantastic having played a bit of it myself what I mentioned above was the only problem, but leveraging your ancestor turns is fantastic. One turn you're using quickened casting to fit in 2 huge AoE spells with the spell damage bonus and next turn you're leveraging your high charisma to intimidate/bonmot and distract enemies adding in your skill ancestor bonuses!
Battle oracle + Barbarian Archetype = huge flat damage increase? cast 3 focus spells, get locked out of spell casting by battle curse, decide to rage about it.
This was my first class in 1e and honestly? I like what they did with it in 2e. Admittedly I do miss the mix and match style of Oracle but that's hard to balance. Fingers crossed for the Metal Mystery Oracle tho. Loved playing that.
Thanks for breaking this down I'm a new fellow from 3.5/5e so hearing how spontaneous and prepared spells is very different ingrigts me. Had a I idea for playing someone who was cursed by a Lovecraftian monster, kinda sad there isn't one to the type of mystery since I remember occultist was a thing in Pathfinder 1st addition.
Well you might look into the Living Vessel Archetype.... and also the Aberrant Sorcerer Bloodline could work. And you might also try the Witch, their mysterious Patrons could fit, especially one that gives the occult tradition. Finally the new Psychic class has some brain-eating/illithid vibes, and combined with a fleshwarp ancestry could go pretty hard on playing someone tied to and transforming into an eldritch horror.
That is a big miss, yes. Thanks for catching it! These classes that get variable proficiencies like that always throw me off (looking at you cleric doctrines!)! Haha.
@@CollectiveArcana I only caught it because of Pathbuilder (thank you very much for the recommendation). I'm excited, I'm trying a tank build, so we'll see how it works out
Ok, we will push it ahead in the queue and do it next for you! Let me know if there's anything specific you'd like us to dig into. Otherwise, we will post it after the Ranger (which is already filmed). Thanks!
@@CollectiveArcana Sorry for some reason the comment didn't notify me until today!!! i would love to just get your ideas on the class and ways to really pull viability and flavor together :D. The biggest challenge i've had with it is when I go for flavor I notice a very hard fall behind in terms of survivability and damage from the rest of the party. I'm a half-elf Winter themed witch in a party with a human fighter, human cleric, and elf alchemist. I love the idea they went with behind the witch but trying to figure out how the new hexes vs PF1 and even familiars has been a little confusing.
@@erickirkland7203 we're working on Witch this weekend (to post next week) qnd I'll try to touch on this in the video! But yes, hexes are not as strong as 1e (where they were INCREDIBLE) but there's still a lot to love!
Something I can't quite wrap my head around is the Bones Mystery Oracle, on a purely mechanical level. I just have no idea how you're supposed to play it or what you're supposed to really do as a Bones Oracle. I get the flavour and I think it's neat, but the whole mechanical kit just doesn't seem to make much sense. Edit: also, the Tempest Oracle is just begging to pick up the Elemental (water) Sorcerer dedication.
I agree about the Bones Mystery... it feels like its a cool high concept, with neat benefits but it isnt as cohesive compared to other mysteries that have a clear role in mind. I guess it makes it more versatile in some ways, but that also means its harder to build to take advantage of your boons and minimize your flaws. Definitely (like all of them) interesting though. And heck yeah, a sorcerer dedication would go a long way with several of these to double down on the flavor!
@@CollectiveArcana Bones is very benefit neutral in general, its biggest payoffs are in its fantastic revelation spells. It might come up to have negative healing if you know you're fighting some undead spellcasters that might have it in droves to attack your party with though for example! I basically subdivide the mysteries as follows: Divine caster with extra spice (Flames, tempest, bones, cosmos) Party role fillers (Life for healing, Battle for tanky support) and skill/social oriented (Lore/ancestors)
Don't have one myself but interested to see what others experiences are. On paper I can't see why you'd play this over someone just as powerful but without the drawback other than RP so I hope to see what people have found in real play. I also, like you, don't feel like these are very well balanced with each other which is a little disappointing given the rest of PF2 which seems to balance pretty well across the class boundaries, let alone within their own class.
I think there are definitely some big boosts. A divine sorcerer casting 5 d8 heals will not compare to an oracle casting 5 d12 heals for example! So there are significant power boosts. Thats the most obvious (and also the one with the scariest drawbacks in my opinion). While they are not balanced with each other exactly, they are well balanced within the class - the stronger ones have the greater weaknesses for example. And some (like many class features) may be better or worse depending on the type of game you're in. A scoundrel rogue is better in a city-based intrigue campaign where a thief is better suited to a traditional dungeon-delve. But neither is so weak out of its element to not be a meaningful contributor in myriad other scenarios. In the case of the rogue, high skill mastery and sneak attack means you're doing what you need to do, and the rest is gravy that may be more or less useful situationally. Oracle just by having full divine spell progression is giving all it needs, so the variances in power for the mysteries aren't enough to actually affect balance, its more choosing which situations you want to have an edge in - at least in what I can see.
No shame if you arent sure, but i have a fruit leshy life oracle being built, would she be able to heal herself with the fruit or does that count as magic? Im pretty new to pathfinder so apologies if this is a dumb question.
No such thing as a dumb question!! I believe the fruit would be considered an item (like the panacea fruit which shares most of the traits with your leshy fruit), since the moderate curse says you still benefit from items, its fair. In fact, since the effect is coming from you, even if it was considered a spell, you could still use it, as the moderate curse only affects healing from OTHER creatures! But the minor curse would still reduce the amount of healing.
Oh man, I chose this as my first ever Pathfinder class. Playing a dwarf Lore Oracle + Living Vessel Archetype and I'm terrified but excited... thank you for the fantastically educational video!
LMAO me too man im playing a Life oracle and its my 1st time playing Pathfinder
Only 3 minutes in but man. You deserve more subs. With the way you list out the proficeincies andhow you have the video broken down into parts. Shows how much care you put into making the video.
Thanks so much, its been a learning process so its good to hear this!
Ive been playing a ton of most of the mysteries and I cannot reccomend this class enough! Managing and understanding your curse is just another layer of resource managment that has some pretty interesting implications even after combat/in RP. All around my favorite class of the game.
Yeah, I opted not to talk too much about the curse flavor effects, mostly just to keep things from running too long, but also because I sort of wanted to keep them as pleasant surprises when people look into the class and get ready to play them.
The strong RP elements tied to Mysteries makes them very interesting and has me eager to see new mysteries added!
@@CollectiveArcana It is a difficult position to be in with this class specifically as there are so many little intricacies haha. In all my testing im actually pretty satisfied with the ones we have already, they can all be built around to levarage their curses to pretty massive positives. the only one id change a bit is ancestors by houseruling that the player can choose the ancestor when refocusing, otherwise it might be too punishing in a day of intrigue or gauntlet running to suddenly fail checks to DC flat fails from your ancestor not being the skill action.
@@momierxorz I agree, Ancestries appears the most challenging... but also in a fun way. Like as a player, signing up for that is very intriguing!
Haha
@@CollectiveArcana It is fantastic having played a bit of it myself what I mentioned above was the only problem, but leveraging your ancestor turns is fantastic.
One turn you're using quickened casting to fit in 2 huge AoE spells with the spell damage bonus and next turn you're leveraging your high charisma to intimidate/bonmot and distract enemies adding in your skill ancestor bonuses!
Battle oracle + Barbarian Archetype = huge flat damage increase?
cast 3 focus spells, get locked out of spell casting by battle curse, decide to rage about it.
I love it!
Man, you really should have more subscribers, great video series, thanks! :)
Agreed
Thats so nice! We're definitely trying! Haha
Thank you!
I really enjoyed the way you listed proficiency increases. Great work on the video! Perhaps one day I'll get a chance to play an Oracle.
Thanks! They seem like a lot of fun! I hope you get to try it soon!
This was my first class in 1e and honestly? I like what they did with it in 2e. Admittedly I do miss the mix and match style of Oracle but that's hard to balance.
Fingers crossed for the Metal Mystery Oracle tho. Loved playing that.
Yes, as always I want to see more subclasses for everyone! Haha.
Hopefully Rage of Elements will have it covered.
Thanks for breaking this down I'm a new fellow from 3.5/5e so hearing how spontaneous and prepared spells is very different ingrigts me. Had a I idea for playing someone who was cursed by a Lovecraftian monster, kinda sad there isn't one to the type of mystery since I remember occultist was a thing in Pathfinder 1st addition.
Well you might look into the Living Vessel Archetype.... and also the Aberrant Sorcerer Bloodline could work. And you might also try the Witch, their mysterious Patrons could fit, especially one that gives the occult tradition. Finally the new Psychic class has some brain-eating/illithid vibes, and combined with a fleshwarp ancestry could go pretty hard on playing someone tied to and transforming into an eldritch horror.
damn, I can't find a Time Oracle breakdown anywhere
You missed Heavy Armor Proficiency for Battle. That's important, especially considering it's curse takes away from your AC.
That is a big miss, yes. Thanks for catching it!
These classes that get variable proficiencies like that always throw me off (looking at you cleric doctrines!)! Haha.
@@CollectiveArcana I only caught it because of Pathbuilder (thank you very much for the recommendation). I'm excited, I'm trying a tank build, so we'll see how it works out
Witch next please!!! I can't find anyone doing videos on them :( :( :(
Ok, we will push it ahead in the queue and do it next for you! Let me know if there's anything specific you'd like us to dig into. Otherwise, we will post it after the Ranger (which is already filmed). Thanks!
@@CollectiveArcana Sorry for some reason the comment didn't notify me until today!!! i would love to just get your ideas on the class and ways to really pull viability and flavor together :D. The biggest challenge i've had with it is when I go for flavor I notice a very hard fall behind in terms of survivability and damage from the rest of the party. I'm a half-elf Winter themed witch in a party with a human fighter, human cleric, and elf alchemist. I love the idea they went with behind the witch but trying to figure out how the new hexes vs PF1 and even familiars has been a little confusing.
@@erickirkland7203 we're working on Witch this weekend (to post next week) qnd I'll try to touch on this in the video! But yes, hexes are not as strong as 1e (where they were INCREDIBLE) but there's still a lot to love!
@@CollectiveArcana I'm so excited to hear your thoughts and see what this class might be hiding inside!!!
@Eric Kirkland Just added the Witch video! ruclips.net/video/A9Xz_0ZfZU0/видео.html
Something I can't quite wrap my head around is the Bones Mystery Oracle, on a purely mechanical level. I just have no idea how you're supposed to play it or what you're supposed to really do as a Bones Oracle. I get the flavour and I think it's neat, but the whole mechanical kit just doesn't seem to make much sense.
Edit: also, the Tempest Oracle is just begging to pick up the Elemental (water) Sorcerer dedication.
I agree about the Bones Mystery... it feels like its a cool high concept, with neat benefits but it isnt as cohesive compared to other mysteries that have a clear role in mind. I guess it makes it more versatile in some ways, but that also means its harder to build to take advantage of your boons and minimize your flaws.
Definitely (like all of them) interesting though.
And heck yeah, a sorcerer dedication would go a long way with several of these to double down on the flavor!
@@CollectiveArcana Bones is very benefit neutral in general, its biggest payoffs are in its fantastic revelation spells. It might come up to have negative healing if you know you're fighting some undead spellcasters that might have it in droves to attack your party with though for example!
I basically subdivide the mysteries as follows: Divine caster with extra spice (Flames, tempest, bones, cosmos) Party role fillers (Life for healing, Battle for tanky support) and skill/social oriented (Lore/ancestors)
@@momierxorz Thats a great breakdown of the Mysteries! Definitely fits with my (inexperienced of course) reading of them.
Don't have one myself but interested to see what others experiences are. On paper I can't see why you'd play this over someone just as powerful but without the drawback other than RP so I hope to see what people have found in real play.
I also, like you, don't feel like these are very well balanced with each other which is a little disappointing given the rest of PF2 which seems to balance pretty well across the class boundaries, let alone within their own class.
I think there are definitely some big boosts. A divine sorcerer casting 5 d8 heals will not compare to an oracle casting 5 d12 heals for example! So there are significant power boosts. Thats the most obvious (and also the one with the scariest drawbacks in my opinion).
While they are not balanced with each other exactly, they are well balanced within the class - the stronger ones have the greater weaknesses for example. And some (like many class features) may be better or worse depending on the type of game you're in. A scoundrel rogue is better in a city-based intrigue campaign where a thief is better suited to a traditional dungeon-delve. But neither is so weak out of its element to not be a meaningful contributor in myriad other scenarios.
In the case of the rogue, high skill mastery and sneak attack means you're doing what you need to do, and the rest is gravy that may be more or less useful situationally. Oracle just by having full divine spell progression is giving all it needs, so the variances in power for the mysteries aren't enough to actually affect balance, its more choosing which situations you want to have an edge in - at least in what I can see.
No shame if you arent sure, but i have a fruit leshy life oracle being built, would she be able to heal herself with the fruit or does that count as magic? Im pretty new to pathfinder so apologies if this is a dumb question.
No such thing as a dumb question!!
I believe the fruit would be considered an item (like the panacea fruit which shares most of the traits with your leshy fruit), since the moderate curse says you still benefit from items, its fair.
In fact, since the effect is coming from you, even if it was considered a spell, you could still use it, as the moderate curse only affects healing from OTHER creatures! But the minor curse would still reduce the amount of healing.
@@CollectiveArcana thats a relief if i screw myself down the line or lose my potions somehow :) thank you very much for the advice :D you guys rule!
Thank you for watching! Happy to help!