Ellen White: Is There More to Know?
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2021
- A conversation with Clinton Baldwin and Steve Daily on Steve's latest book, Ellen White: A Psychobiography Ellen White and Plagiarism; How Ellen Wrote her books, Visions of Ellen White, Books of Ellen White, Truth Versus Error, Great Controversy and Ellen White, The 1919 Bible Conference, Minutes of 1919 Bible Conference
There is no need for the sqabbling over EGW. There are two passages of scripture that should settle the question. In Hebrews 1: 1&2 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds"
Matthew 17:5 "While he yet spake, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud which said, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased; HEAR YE HIM:
KJV
We do not need EGW or any other prophet. JESUS DIED FOR US HE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.
Ellen G White was a liar and lies are very sweet to the hungry, desperate, unaware and unsuspecting souls
@ Clinton S. Baldwin
This presentation has shaken loose the conscience of an elder who has been brought up SDA.
The evidence is so well presented and given by upright men..that if one does some follow up…the house of cards comes crashing down.
May God Be with you today and all days.
Thank you for your work-and for helping my dear friend awaken out of a seven decade slumber of EGW…no EGB..B for Blackness.
Read this before. Found no reason to leave the SDA church. Could you please give me the highlights of the accusations? Give where located.
I keep hearing people saying she is wrong and does not follow the bible. But never examples. Just accusations. It seems that the attacks are more based on what ? Give me evidence with proof. Not just your opinion.
I see your words. But absolutely no evidence given. Which is all I get.
Samuel Williams
If you are able to look at evidence then I can tell you where to go for your eyes to see.
Some of us have never trusted anything outside of Gods Word.
Some of us know God tells us that wolves will come in passing themselves off as sheep.
For others like you since your not able to listen to the clear evidence here…I’ll try another way.
If you have the EGW app on your phone type in the following and read with your own eyes.
“Green cord”
“Golden card”
“”Little angels with wings”
“Saturn”
Also go to the RUclips channel called:
Test the Prophet
You will see before your very eyes where your “prophet” got here writings.
She is also in Gods Word.
Mathew 13:33
Deuteronomy 13
@@TruthSetFree-zm1ep I know about the wolves. I was an agnostic and it was over a year of reading before I accepted the Bible as true. That I investigated white for also about a year. But than didn't stop.
So Yes on the child hood dream of the green cord speaking of praying to Jesus.
Yes I know about the Gold card which means nothing. So no reason to not believe her.
Saturn was a guess By the Captain. already answered.
I did a search on little angel with wings. Found nothing. So where did you get this? I cannot find it.
So I have no reason to trust you over what I have found in actual research.
Yes you have the accusations. But no evidence.
Love GOD love others. So not one false teaching.
Love.
Highest regard for both of these men.
Here’s an idea- if you are interviewing someone- shut up and let them speak.
I'm reading the first vision of egw and I don't see where she gives a date of Jesus return. ...I wish when you are making claims that you give the qoutes and books that go with that your asserting.
That because they are talking with their mouth full of water. You can read about them in 2 Peter 2. Ask them which 5 of our doctrine they have a problem with and you will see that they despise the Law.
@@truthreveal I don't know about despise the law...They're still Christians that are keeping the commandments...seems their issue is with the position of egw if I'm not mistaken
@@Rio-uv1gs They deny God's law.
@@Rio-uv1gs Saying it's not for us today, in particular the seventh day sabbath.
@@truthreveal I dont think they're against the law i think they have a different interpretation mainly..egw is what they have an issue with...
Am sure this video must be causing some huge cognitive dissonance in the minds of SDAs.... Great video 😇
Not really since much of it is not correct on what we teach,.
@@samuelwilliams1559 what is being said that is not correct?
@@stevenodenthal3458 First we teach salvation by Grace alone through faith alone. As we teach it in agreement with John Wesley. We also teach the Trinity.
I have been away for a few days. So I forgot some other parts. But these are two of the main lies told about us. That we oppose the Trinity and we teach works salvation.
Love.
Galatians 5:22-25 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Five Solas Sola Scriptura, Scripture alone. Sola Fide Faith Alone Sola Gratian by Grace alone Solo Christ. Christ alone. Soli Deo Glory to GOD alone. GRACE G - God's R - Riches A - At C - Christ's E - Expense Love GOD love others follow Jesus.
@@samuelwilliams1559 no we don’t teach salvation by grace alone. We teach that the last generation must have the perfection of Christ, then, and only then, can Christ return to claim us. That is not having salvation by grace alone. I’m not sure who says we oppose the trinity, but myself have come to believe that the trinity doctrine was a capitulation to evangelicalism in 1980. We wanted to be seen as mainstream. I agree with the pioneers of the church, that the trinity was a doctrine right out of the gates of hell.
@@stevenodenthal3458 Being saved by Grace alone and being perfect is not the same thing. That the last generation is perfect. Does not save them. It is just who they are. We including them are grace. Being perfect is the result of waling in love. Agreed.
Where can I get a copy of the 1919 bible conference minutes?
What is the name of phd thesis?
“Those who judge will never understand, and those who understand will never judge
Double talk crap.e g white is a BONA FIDE FAKE
Try the Bible "Do not judge according to appearance, BUT JUDGE with righteous judgment.” The beloved disciple's advice is recorded in Chap 7 verse 24.
And when the Great Apostle said to the Thessalonians SHUN the very APPEARANCE of evil....that called for one to even be clear about that evil and the evildoers EVEN THE APPEARANCE of it. So Christiaan I'd recommend the Bible before the quotes of "wise" men.
It is not that you are not to judge the bible cautioned us to be careful of HOW we judge. Try going through life without EVALUATING whether this church, this pastor, this investor, this salesman should be trusted. Well I went through life trusting EGW wihout TESTING her. I was not listening to the Bible when I did that
Amen...
So true
Walter Martin should not have given Adventism a chance to deceptively re-brand with Questions on Doctrine. I am happy that Walter before he died realized he was deceived by SDA leadership.
Walter Martin told the truth. Why do you call him and his organization a liar? Why do you support antinominism?
ruclips.net/video/EFZq9WkquyU/видео.html
In this interview linked above, Martin conveyed he had been duped and lied to by the GC..Martin wanted to go over to Johnson and punch him..You could see the anger in Martin
The SAD organization is built on lies and it continues to this day..
Since his organization say we're not a cult. Look it up. I did.
@@samuelwilliams1559 : 🤣🤣🤣🤣 You really are in need of help sir🤣 I will not waste anymore effort in the direction of your education🤭
@@clarkent61 Yes please give up lying.
Do you have a video on how you came out of adventist?
Yes, See my youtube channel. Its entitled: Personal Testimony: Why I left Adventism
Great stuff Doc! Greetings from the family.
Thanks, Damian. Good to hear from you. Hope you and family are doing well
Since much of this is based on false information. Not great. Very sad that people attack a Christian woman for uplifting Jesus.
@@samuelwilliams1559 Christian woman? Are you mad? Uplifting Jesus? Are you mad? According to Ellen the sacred blood of Christ does not blog sin out. That’s blasphemy. Give me a time in the video where Steve Daily presents false information. Are you saying the heritage room at Loma Linda and La Sierra contain false information? Where is your proof Mr. Daily is exposing false information?
@@samuelwilliams1559 How does one determine if the information on EGW is reliable or not, is a rubberstamp signature employed as proof? And where in the KJV is a prophet or a messenger of God embraced by his\her own people in their own time? Just one example please.
Thank God that as an Adventist my faith is not anchored in any man or woman but in the God of the bible. There's no need for any sincere Adventist to be shaken by this information.
What about people who get the boot because they have questioned Ellen white. Doesn’t that place her authority above the Bible? And aren’t you concerned about her failing the tests of a Prophet in the Bible?
How can you say that an organization that teaches, Sabbath as being the seal of God, Sunday as the mark of the beast, the Investigative Judgment, mandatory tithe paying, The SDA church as the remnant church, as anchored on the Bible? These are all gospel denying positions. They are positions arrived at because unknowingly to most SDAs, the Bible has been interpreted through the lens of Ellen White’s writings. When the Bible is interpreted in light of the Bible’s own context(s) you cannot affirm these positions. It is therefore a myth to claim/imply that SDAs or your faith for that matter, is totally built on the Bible.
How can you continue to say that God’s moral law is mandatory for everyone, yet continue to sell and profit from books the contents of which were stolen? How can you not be concerned when if you remove her writings then all the theological pillars of your denomination crumble?
@@clintons.baldwin1571 well said bro, They just don't understand how wicked the adventist teachings are!!
@@PeterDixonMedia Hi Pete, Simon O'Rourke here..... Yeah you're absolutely right, even baptism is denied to EGW deniers. "No salvation for you"! Says Gods church on earth....
@@clintons.baldwin1571 : Spot on sir. I respect the integrity you showed by LEAVING this SDA organization which many refer as a cult.
Adventism was conceived in error and it has required a monumental effort in artifice and fraud to warrant it’s support.
Ellen White and pioneering Adventists were racist and apostate, my research gives me no other opinion.
Attorney Ramik, how would you sum up the legal case against Ellen White as far as charges of plagiarism, piracy, and copyright infringement are concerned?
Ramik: If I had to be involved in such a legal case, I would much rather appear as defense counsel than for the prosecution. There simply is no case
C 19, would you know any place where I can purchase an Ellen G White dart board?
Ellen was unethical. She was a liar and a thief. Are there any unethical prophets in the old covenant?
“There are little companies continually arising who believe that God is only with the very few, the very scattered, and their influence is to tear down and scatter that which God’s servants build up. Restless minds who want to be seeing and believing something new continually are constantly rising, some in one place and some in another, all doing a special work for the enemy, yet claiming to have the truth
@@457christiaan Adventists are egotistical. They get a special feeling of pride presenting themselves to the world as the only true last days remnant church with special last days present truth. Adventists are pompous Pharisees who with pride. In reality they are Bible illiterate and biblical fools.
@@457christiaan Weird comment sir. Perhaps a little less meandering? But you believe EGW was a prophet, so you have bigger problems I suppose.
It was Bates and James white who went off and assumed Egw went to Jupiter etc..When in fact she had no idea where she was, except for that she was taken to " A place"...(Sounds like James white and Mr. Bates continued the narrative based on their own interpretation of her vision.
William Miller did not set Oct 22, 1844 as the fulfillment of the 2300 evening and morning prophecy.
Ellen White has NO prophesy that came to pass. What a record to have as a prophet.
Since she predicted that the United States would reach out to Rome and the Pope. That would be a lie. First thank you for saying that SDA are Christian's. So you left the SDA church at 17.
I joined the SDA church at the age of 22 from being an agnostic. It took months to become a Christian. Then joined the SDA in church. I have found the SDA church to teach truth.
Yes she is. But she always follows the Bible. No one has to pledge allegiance to White. That is a false accusation. We are to follow Jesus.
Yes she was a Methodist and came out of the Millerite movement. Yes he did and was wrong.
White but she also said that time. So there evidence of her declaring stating a day and hour. So correct she never gave a date. I have found no over whelming evidence. But there is some gossip on that. Which White was not cemented by White. White rejected that date. But she is not doing that on the shut door. So more gossip.
Those who read her words are false. White admitted that was wrong. She never said that White stated a date. That was others. I have read the Book. I do not believe you.
So goodbye. So do thousands of others.
So you admit White didn't do it. I have read Early Writings. She there is a book on the plagiarism. There is no evidence of the shouting Methodist movement. Goodbye.
Nice try. She stated that the United States would reach out to Rome. That is one. She warned of the antinomianism that is spreading in Churches.
There are many more.
@@samuelwilliams1559 : You are so demented and delusional that you do not even know that these were classical Protestant positions. I gave you proof that in the first edition of the Great Controversy, Ellen White’s position was that Rome did not qualify as Babylon. This view was changed by W.W Prescott in a subsequent edition of the Great Controversy. W.W Prescott made these changes in line with his Protestant thinking which he had published in another publication.
I gave you the quotes from the SDA 1919 conference. Would you like the evidence again? Perhaps you did not or could not read the last time I gave it to you.
And by the way this is NOT a prophesy because it is not measurable nor does it have any qualifying characteristics. Ellen White was such a liar and false prophet that only a severely deluded individual would classify her lies as a prophesy. Let me give you a flavor of her false prophesies:
“Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think that they have work to do there before the Lord comes... I saw that Satan had greatly deceived some in this thing... I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up...' Early Writings p. 75.
"For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world . . . I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844." SELECTED MESSAGES 1 p. 63
"I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: Some food for worms, some subject to the last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus'" (Vol. 1, p. 131).
DID THESE PROPHESIES HAPPEN? NO THEY DID NOT. I WONDER WHAT WOULF CONVINCE YOU THAT ELLEN WHITE WAS A LIAR, CLEARLY THE BIBLE HOLDS NO CURRENCY WITH YOU🤣
@@samuelwilliams1559 : Here is the PROOF that the view held by Ellen White in the GC on Rome was that Rome and the Papacy could not be classified as Babylon. Please read it this time and research the references and make sure it is authentic:
"W. W. Prescott: My interpretation was, (and I taught it for years in The Protestant Magazine) that Babylon stood for the great apostasy against God, which headed up in the papacy, but which included all minor forms, and that before we come to the end, theywould all come under one. That was not the teaching of "Great Controversy." "Great Controversy" said that Babylon could not mean the Romish church, and I had made it mean that largely and primarily. After the book was revised, although the whole argument remained the same, it said that it could not mean the Roman Church alone, just that one word added.
F. M. Wilcox: That helped you out.
W. W. Prescott: Yes, but I told W. C. White I did not think anybody had any right to do that. And I did not believe anybody had any right to use it against me before or afterward. I simply went right on with my teaching."
THIS WAS SOURCED FROM THE 1919 SDA CONFERENCE. PLEASE READ IT THIS TIME.
"Prophetess of Health: A Study of Ellen G. White (Library of Religious Biography)" by Ronald L. Numbers
@@clarkent61 Where would I read it? That you give no passage but just a conference Which you are not showing where I can find it.
Ellen White was human as we are. She made mistakes like we do, and she did a lot of good, like some of us do. it seems like she was a woman who meant well. We need to spend our time working on our personal relationship with God. Some of us are obsessed with Ellen White and what she was and was not. I love her book 'Steps to Christ''. It points people to Christ.
The Holy Spirit sent me to Jesus.
Earl it is the very same church that taught me that a good false prophet will be right most of the time and most of the time she was right she was taking from the books of others. This is not the age of Canright or Walter Rhea this IS the information age. I don't need them anymore to determine the truth about her.
I reject the "she is human as we are" So is Benny Hinn, so is Joseph Smith, so is Kenneth Copeland and so was Judas. Our Bible tells us to TEST THE SPIRIT and JUDGE the prophet BOTH are New Testament statements.
Good advice to tell us to work on our personal relationship because my testimony is that my spiritual life took off the day I rejected this prophet and this church that propped her up for over a century while lying to us in the process. That cannot be ignored.
Horrific deception on the Holy Spirit leading her is of the devil. The enemy of God.
She has hurt the Seventh-day Adventist Church from top to bottom. The church is being mocked by all the apostate protestant churches.
Please where can I get Steve Daily’s book?
Amazon is one option.
As Christians, thatis compromising. As a former SDA, ministered for approx 5 years adventism is and was never christian and saying this without hatred, vaxation, condemnation, etc. I testified in 1994 that SDA is a religion of lies as a youth and is still saying it at this age.
I am weeping for you men, true jesuits, I am so pained for your soul. It is so clear that Jesus Christ coming is at the door and this is how you are helping others to prepare for his return. It is so obvious what you are doing and whó you are working for. I pray for you.
what a brainwashed rubbish comment
Galatians, 4,16
Am I ur enemy now that I have told u the truth?
You are being childish.
You have proof that these men are Jesuits?
Christ's coming may be at the door but Adventists are not living in His power and victory and are NOT the Remnant church.
SDA has a dark side . Their hospitals will perform abortions for any reason .They do abortions on your precious Sabbath day too . SDA hospitals, doctors and nurses would rather make money murdering babies than keep the Sabbath Holy . Proverbs 6:16-17 God hates hands that shed innocent blood . Jeremiah 1 :5 God said I knew you when I formed you in the womb and sanctified thee . SDA is the only religious group that practice this wickedness . They have been in the abortion business for 50 years . Hypocrite's !
Fraud is a synonym for Adventism.
Not at all. Lies abut us are.
@@samuelwilliams1559 ur in denial, the problem started from the foundation of adventism it started with date settings for Christ eminent return, instead of the simplicity of the Gospel justification by grace through faith.
@@charnelallan7159 But the Christians who believed in the 1844 also believed in Justification by faith. They were Protestant's and followed these points.
As we do today.
Five Solas Sola Scriptura, Scripture alone. Sola Fide Faith Alone Sola Gratian by Grace alone Solo Christ. Christ alone. Soli Deo Glory to GOD alone. GRACE G - God's R - Riches A - At C - Christ's E - Expense Love GOD love others follow Jesus.
You give no proof that the Bible verses I point you to. Do not say what they literally say.
I await Bible proof of our doctrines.
God is love. Keep your eyes on Jesus.
@@charnelallan7159 Your accusations lack actual facts. Try reading the Bible and what we actually teach.
I am awake. I just find your proof inadequate. God is love.
I was an agnostic. I turned from not believing in GOD. To being is son my being Born again. White has helped. I have read the Bible in many translations. I have not found White to not follow the Bible. So until you can show me she teaches against the Bible I will listen to her.
I will follow Jesus. My Lord and Savior.
One thing Ellen White plus every other denomination has gotten wrong is the idea that there’s only one day of each week for worship. God didn’t say that the sabbath was a certain day for worship HE said it was a day of rest remember it and keep it holy. Every day should be a day of worship for every Christian even if it’s within the privacy of your own home. Didn’t God say to enter into your closet to pray in secret? Seek and ye shall find. I have multiple Protestant pastors from different denominations in my family but I don’t depend on anyone except Christ to show me the truth bc when I pray for understanding...I trust God will give it to me. Don’t ever put your faith in the traditions of men. Read 2Peter ch.1
@@lesliehiatt8959 First you are correct we are to worship every day. But the Bible sets aside a special day of worship. First in Genesis then in Exodus 20. At mount Sinai.
Genesis 2:2,3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
So three point. He rested on the Seventh day. He blessed the Seventh day and finally he set it aside as holy.
Read Exodus 20
I am asking you to follow the Bible not the traditions of men. Show me wrong from the bible.
GOD is love. Follow Jesus.
Samuel Williams
You are so confused.
You really need to study Gods Word.
Read Hebrews 3 and 4 line by line..we are told a mystery for those who seek…WHO was our Sabbath…Who do we rest in?
Here’s what your proven false prophet taught:
1-The seal of God is Saturday worship observation.
2- Satan is the scapegoat and sin bearer.
3- Jesus went into the most holy Heavenly sanctuary in 1844.
4- Sunday worship is the mark of the beast.
Here is what we do with any prophets who have even one false prophecy-read The Bible man! Deuteronomy 13!!
She said US and England would go to war….She said Jesus would come back in her lifetime…
Wake up.
@@samuelwilliams1559 Please answer this question.
Are you assured of your salvation now or do you have to wait to be cleared in the Investigative Judgement?
@@thenowchurch6419 I trust in GOD for my salvation and that with the Holy Spirit I will persevere. But i do not agree with once saved always saved. I just trust Jesus.
You are the true example of the ENEMIES from within. Thank you though for revealing yourselves as spies and advocate for the papacy.
Cognitive dissonance
Gal 4,16
Am I ur enemy now that I have told u the truth?
I find that most of the attacks on White involve things she never said. A lot of lies are made up about her. So many times I ask for the direct quyotes and get none. Other times I get quotes so cut up and changed they oppose what she actually said.
So let us follow her advice.
"Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and you make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don't you give a rap any more what 'Sister White Said' -'Sister White said this,' and 'Sister White said that,' and 'Sister White said the other thing'. But say, 'Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.'" -- Spalding and Magan Collection 167.2
Let us study the Bible. Once we can agree on the Bible than we can use the Bible to verify if White is correct.
So are you willing to study the Bible?
It is not so simple friend.
33 thousand denominations all claim to be simply studying and following the Bible but they disagree on many points.
It matters whose interpretation one adopts.
@@thenowchurch6419 But Protestants agree on many points. As well with Evangelicals. Nor are all disagreements important. I call many who disagree with me Christian brothers and sisters. The most important points is love God
Yes. We agree with basic protestant theology of covenant theology. Evangelical dispensationalism has a few more differences but we still agree on the basics. We have a lot in common with Methodist.
@@thenowchurch6419 When did 33,000 denominations happen?
@@samuelwilliams1559 Are you unaware that the Protestant Reformation eventually split up into 33 thousand denominations today?
It is publicly available knowledge.
Amen!
Please explain this passage.
Heb 9:1-28
Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Do not make a mistake Adventist IS NOT CHRISTIAN.
What D you mean
SDA's do except EGW as a Messenger of the Lord. We find good counsel in her writings for spiritual growth. However the Bible is the authority that test all other writings even EGW. Best for people to read her writings for themselves.
The Bible is 100% complete for ALL counsel for ALL spiritual growth.
Nothing else is needed.
If you need something extra then the Bible falls short.
( It doesn't, because it's from Yahweh)
Why should people read her writings at all?
@@thenowchurch6419 Why do you listen to other people talk about the bible? Everyone in God's church have their proper gifts from God and they should be used and recognized within the church. We believe that she was bless with the gift of prophecy and base upon her work in Writing, propticallity and her character the bible bare truth to her inspiration. This doesn't mean she is perfect like all other prophet's before her was not perfect. Faith is the victory that over come the word friend.
@@Snowcrystalsfalling Why do you listen to other people talk about the bible? Everyone in God's church have their proper gifts from God and they should be used and recognized within the church. We believe that she was bless with the gift of prophecy and base upon her work in Writing, propticallity and her character the bible bare truth to her inspiration. This doesn't mean she is perfect like all other prophet's before her was not perfect. Faith is the victory that over come the word friend.
@@truthreveal If you read the Bible correctly, you would know from the leading of the Spirit, that Jesus and His words are the Spirit of Prophecy, not Ellen White.
To attribute her writings as being such is taking away from the truth. You should not do that.
Honestly to me it does not matter if plagiarism was a big deal back then or not. If she was claiming visions from but then other works were her inspiration then this casts doubts on her claims to have visions from god.
The visions did not come from others. Yes she used the words of other Christians. So would you choose her to use the words of none Christians?
The true point is she was teaching much the same as other Christians Like John Wesley and Martin Luther.
Now this guy did say we are wrong. But that does not prove it.
Here is a rebuttal from an non SDA.
Walter Martin Kingdom of the cults. 1985
It is unnecessary to document at great length the fact that the Seventh day Adventism adhere tenaciously to the foundation doctrine of Christian Theology as these have been by the Christian church throughout the centuries Kingdom of the cults page 424 Appendix section.
@@samuelwilliams1559 the gospel that she taught is nothing like the Wesley and Martin Luther. No one was teaching things like the investigative judgment and the great controversy, and present truth, and soul sleep....I could go on. The Jesus that she expressed is nothing like the true historical Jesus that saves. The fact you think she taught Jesus like the others shows that you are deceived.
So, why is your focus only on the Seventh Day Adventist church?
Satan knows who to target
Very Good to expose this fake profit
When lies and false accusation are used to make a person false. That is not good. We are to love GOD. And love others. So sad for the false accusations here.
What a corrupt woman!
Because you are told so? The Pharisees made similar accusations against Jesus.
@@samuelwilliams1559 read some of her work. It's so false. It's not true to Christianity at all. Seventh Day Adventism is based on failed prophecies. So sad.
@@republiccooper I have read over a hundred of her books. I see truth and her supporting the Bible. I have found that the so called failed prophecies are built on false statements. How many of her books have you read?
@@samuelwilliams1559 Two.
@@samuelwilliams1559 When I spot heresy, I tend to put it down to protect my relationship with God through Jesus.
The following text tells us what is the correct meaning of the "Spirit of Prophecy".
Revelation 19:10 - “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” This text tells us that when John tried to worship the angel, that he told him to worship God instead. The angel also tried to strengthen John’s faith by informing him that the “testimony of Jesus” or the “faith of Jesus”, which was revealed to us during His time on earth, was prophesied by individuals who were inspired by the Holy Spirit. The writers of the Bible were all inspired by the Holy Spirit, and so too were E.G. White ( With some of her messages) and others. Today, the Holy Spirit is still inspiring us as we live the Christian life and preach the “everlasting gospel” to the world.
We are in the last days just before the return of Jesus. Therefore, let us do our best to lead others to Jesus. Thank you, and God bless!
And am thinking you were going to set a date for Jesus coming 🙏😊
I have to disagree with you on EGW.
She was a deceitful person and not inspired by the Holy Spirit.
@@andrewebanks306 God the Father will announce the day and hour of Jesus coming in Fall of 2027 when the 6000th year since the Fall of Man begins, which is the 120th Jubilee.
All believers who proclaim the Gospel of Jesus, justification by grace through faith has the testimony of Jesus. Just like apostle Paul was bannished on the isle of Patmos, for the testimonies of Christ, Steven, Moses, Abraham etc
@@thenowchurch6419 From my decades of research. I disagree. Where is your evidence?
Are you saying that Bates and others instituted the Sabbath instituted at creation?
No, he is saying that in the New Covenant, Christ never carried the obligations of the Mosaic Sabbath keeping letter of the Law, to Christians.
Genesis never says that Sabbath keeping was instituted as a Law when it was sanctified.
When YHWH gave the 10 Commandments to Israel, he called the Sabbath a special sign between Himself and them, NOT for other nations, which it would have been if it was universal Law for all humanity.
@@thenowchurch6419 And that my friend should help you to understand who is leading these men. Isaiah 8:20
@@truthreveal The word "law" there refers to the general counsel of YHWH not the 10 Commandments.
In the light of the Incarnation, by which all scripture must be interpreted , it means, if they speak not according to Christ's sayings there is no light in them.
SDA doctrine falls under that category since Christ never spoke of an Investigative Judgement starting in 1844 and running indefinitely.
He also never spoke of rejecting those who do not see Ellen White as a prophet.
Wake up from your stupor.
@@thenowchurch6419 Christ didn't speak on many time, yet that doesn't mean they cannot be found in the bible and also we can say Christ teach the principles of every doctrine in the sda church. Who is your God? Do you worship Jesus?
Now let’s take Walter Rea. He reads Ellen White and says: I found a certain phrase here, a certain paragraph there, and it came from this predecessor. Well, that’s not proof; that’s assumption. And I think the first step in any accurate critique is to go back to the real original-it might be Virgil, Homer, the Bible. Because how do you know it was original with the predecessor-how do you know he did not get it from someone else who, in turn, got it from still another earlier someone else? Didn’t Solomon say, “There is no new thing under the sun”?
Review: In your legal opinion, Mr. Ramik, you pointed out that many of the works Mrs. White is accused of “stealing” were, in fact, not copyrighted by either author or publisher, and were, therefore, in the public domain-were thus public property. You went on, further, to point out that even if they had been copyrighted, Ellen White’s use of these materials fell well within the carefully prescribed boundaries of “fair use,” as defined by the law of her day. One contemporary critic, however, raises the question of ethics and propriety: Was it moral for Ellen White to borrow heavily from other people’s literary productions and not, at least, acknowledge the sources? Would you care to respond to the question of ethics here?
Ramik: Well, yes. Walter Rea has publicly said (and I’ve listened to the cassette recording of one of his presentations and then read the verbatim transcript carefully) that there is nothing “moral” in a purely legal definition of plagiarism. Of course, elsewhere, he attacks Mrs. White on moral grounds, on ethical use of others’ materials. Well, first, he’s totally wrong in saying there’s no element of morality in the charge of plagiarism. H. M. Paull, who wrote Literary Ethics about 1928, is still today a recognized authority on the subject. Incidentally, while he never came right out and defined “plagiarism” in his book (because, as I said a moment ago, “plagiarism,” per se, is not a crime), he does contrast plagiarism with piracy. The literary pirate does not care whether he gets caught; but the plagiarist worries that he will be found out. (And you say there’s no element of morality involved in plagiarism!) Incidentally, to accuse Ellen White of plagiarizing Conybeare & Howson’s uncopyrighted Life of Paul is absurd, if for no other reason than the fact that she publicly urged her readers to get a copy and read it for themselves.
Review: All right; but, still, would you care to comment upon whether Ellen White encroached in the area of ethics by using materials-quotations, paraphrases, ideas, and so on-of others without publicly stating where she got them?
Ramik: There is no reason why Ellen White could not use the ideas of others in expressing the thoughts she wished to convey. It’s not even rational to expect someone writing on a theological subject, for example, to write in the abstract without researching what others who have gone before-or even contemporaries-have said on the subject.
I’m a 4th generation former SDA who grew up a worker’s daughter. After reading the comments I’m astonished at some of the hateful, Pharisee attitudes. Maybe you are a “SDA or Christian “ in name with all sorts of fancy knowledge of religion but without a love filled attitude towards others you are nothing but a “white washed tomb”. God bless.
Sadly there are many who lack love on both sides.
I looked up the vision egw had tall beings on a planet..Early Writings pp.39,40 and it doesn't name Jupiter as the planet that she seen tall majestic beings on. In the qoute she says " a place" ..she doesn't name where she was..(Ok this is the second acquisition I can't find proof for")... sigh
Here is truth about the SDA.
Seventh-day Adventist Church - Wikipedia
The Seventh-day Adventist Church[a] is a Protestant Christian denomination [3] which is distinguished by its observance of Saturday,[4] the seventh day of the week in Christian and Jewish calendars, as the Sabbath, and its emphasis on the imminent Second Coming (advent) of Jesus Christ. The denomination grew out of the Millerite movement in the United States during the mid-19th century and it was formally established in 1863.[5] Among its founders was Ellen G. White, whose extensive writings are still held in high regard by the church.[6] Much of the theology of the Seventh-day Adventist Church corresponds to common evangelical Christian teachings, such as the Trinity and the infallibility of Scripture. Distinctive teachings include the unconscious state of the dead and the doctrine of an investigative judgment. The church is known for its emphasis on diet and health, including adhering to Kosher food laws, advocating vegetarianism, and its holistic understanding of the person.[7][8] It is likewise known for its promotion of religious liberty, and its conservative principles and lifestyle.[9]
I want you to explain this passage to me. Please.
Heb 9:1-28
Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
You wrote this.
Charnel ALLAN
1 month ago
@Samuel Williams if u teach faith by grace alone, how does obligatory Sabbath keeping becomes the seal of God, the distinction between the remnant and daughters of Babylon, apostate So in other words ur denomination says it teaches justification by grace through faith but ur doctrine clears teaches faith + works salvation. That is not the Gospel.
The gospel is we are saved by Grace alone through faith alone. Not of works since there is no way works save.
(Thunder law established.
True there is no justification by the law. Yes we are saved by Grace alone through faith. Correct SDA teach salvation is solely by the law of faith. Agreed no one can boast. But the purpose of the law is not to save us. But to show we are sinners.
Yes there is no boasting Yes we are saved by grace through faith. Correct none of those laws save us. But we are not to live in sin. Agreed does not justify us.
None of this does away with the law. We are to not live in sin either. )
Form months ago.
Romans 7:9-25 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died
And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Because the Sabbath seal is not about salvation. But about the Ten Commandments being the law of GOD.
We teach justification by faith alone through grace alone. We just also teach as James says faith is not alone.
Love of GOD and love of others leads us to walk in love not hate and sin.
Galatians 5:18-25 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
1Timothy 1:8 -10 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Revelations 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
The saved walk in love. The lost walk in hate and sin. Hypocrites do not go to heaven. That is what we teach. That is what the Bible teaches.
This shows you do not know what we teach. Have you become a Calvinist?
Hebrews 7:15-22 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
For now they are to be in our hearts.
Heb 7:23-28
And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
To Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
Amen and amen We are now under the New Covenant.
SDA teach we are saved by Grace alone through faith alone. But we are to not live in hate and sin.
Matthew 7:12-29 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
God is love.
Dr Hanz Gutierrez Diagnose Steve Daily , and his book and his HATE against Ellen White - The relevance of Daily's book.
According to Doctor Gutierrez :language provokes anxiety.
For this reason, Steve Daily's book is both interesting and somewhat watershed-breaking. It is not the first and will not be the last. The disappointment is that books like this are produced outside and not inside the church. Something is not working well in Adventism. Religious faith is not only about affirming but also about critical reasoning. We Adventists, though, are good at producing critical exercises to analyze others but unfortunately not yet able to adequately analyze ourselves and the many inconsistent nodes present in our theology and administration. A selective critical spirit is evidence of this and betrays a rigid crypto-confessionalism, opportunistically a little apologetic, a little proselytizing.
Daily's contribution to a theology of White and the prophetic gift seems to me to be threefold, even if this may not have been his intention. First, on a functional level, a prophet is not above the possibility of making mistakes. The limits of my expertise and time do not allow me to validate or refute what Daily says about various aspects of White's work. But his argument is more than justified. A prophet can err, unless we adhere to prophetic inerrancy. We have barely abandoned biblical inerrancy so it would be paradoxical and sad if we instead keep using it in reference to Ellen White. Besides, in the Bible itself we find validation on this first reasonable hypothesis of Daily. Not a few times have true prophets erred and been called to account.
Second, at a structural level, every prophet brings the danger of unilateralism. A prophet could functionally be correct and not make any mistakes. This fact does not, however, free him from any structural limitations. No prophet hoards for himself all the virtues. Part of every prophet is an unavoidable unilateralism. Biblical prophetism compensates for this limitation by introducing a plurality with different voices, temperaments, sensibilities, and theological projects that Adventism does not have. More than the prophet himself, as an individual, it is the global phenomenon - prophetism - that can and should be qualified as true or false, relevant or irrelevant. If, for example, all biblical prophetism were embodied, interpreted and limited to Elijah we would have a mediocre prophetism. Not because of Elijah himself but because of the lack of other alternative prophetic figures. For this reason while biblical prophetism is great and noble because of the plurality it expresses, Adventist prophetism, focused exclusively on Ellen White, is a poor prophetism that, in addition, has the problem of being out-of-date in many areas.
Third, on a temporal level, a prophet by definition does not always have the same relevance. He is relevant at a specific time. The role of a prophet is inseparable from a present truth, which will be valid for a specific period of time. Thus Ellen White is no longer a current prophet. To use her writings today, massively employed to settle any kind of ethical or religious problem, is like trying to use a biology textbook of her time to understand life processes in nature as they are currently understood by science. White is a prophet of the nineteenth century. The themes, arguments and rhythm of reasoning are of other times. They no longer correspond to our own. Prophets have always had a double level of relevance. A first level is a historically immediate level in that what they said was closely related to the events of their present. The words of the prophet Jeremiah, spoken at the end of the seventh century BCE, are no longer directly applicable in the next century. A second level is a level of universal scope in which the directions and perspectives, developed by the prophets, maintain an everlasting validity but which necessarily become a validity of principle and direction, not of specific strategies and actions. The problem for Adventists with Ellen White is that we want to apply the first level of validity to the second one. This is no longer possible. White is a prophet of other times and for us her authority can only be that of the second level, and consequently of generic, not specific strategies.
II. Some limits
Daily's book is heterogeneous in that it moves on various levels, not always in a clear and convincing way. I’ll briefly offer three criticisms. The first has to do with confusion of the levels involved. The book presents itself as being a psychological analysis but appears more often as a book of ethical assessment. Certainly, it is not always possible to separate the two areas, but it is still necessary to keep them distinct without creating an excessive and confusing overlap. Adventist ethicist David Larson notes this when he qualifies the book more as an "ethical condemnation" than a "psychological evaluation," hoping that in a second edition the psychological evaluation will be published separately. This suggestion is probably excessive and inapplicable. It would be enough for the author to be more rigorous in his treatment of either dimension without switching so casually and erratically from one to the other.
The second criticism is a failure to recognize White's evolution over time. This criticism is addressed to him by theologian Alden Thompson, even though Thompson tends to downplay the remaining problematic nodes in White. For example, regarding the guilt-tripping, moralizing language that is easily found in her books, Daily tends not to perceive an improvement and modification over time. Whereas Thompson, in defending White, tends to see those limited changes as final and decisive without perceiving that, beyond those improvements, her pronouncements remain problematic in some areas and below what we can accept today as theologically convenient and humanly appropriate.
A third criticism concerns the tone of his analysis. Daily reasons about White excessively in terms of true or false, of health or disease. This, after all, is a typical characteristic not only of Ellen White but also of Adventism. For White, it is as if everything is final, decisive, urgent and requires a clear and definitive stand for the true versus the false. In this, White's language is very anxiety-inducing and the use Adventism makes of her is even worse. Daily changes registers and levels but the anxiety-inducing tone remains in full. He never manages to express a more neutral language, or more descriptive one from an ethical and psychological point of view. In this sense Daily remains and is very “Whiteian.” His language provokes anxiety.
Instead, I would suggest that, not only White but life in general and spiritual life in particular are, at the most essential level, "beyond good and evil," "beyond health and illness." We must, as James Hillman would say, learn to depathologize and see the ups and downs, some excesses and some deficit, as normal ripples and curves of existence. If we applied the impetuosity, determination and intransigence that Daily applies to White, not only would no prophet come out intact, but we would be worse. There should be a milder way to describe human events and characters.
Hanz Gutierrez is a Peruvian theologian, philosopher, and physician. Currently, he is Chair of the Systematic Theology Department at the Italian Adventist Theological Faculty of “Villa Aurora” and director of the CECSUR (Cultural Center for Human and Religious Sciences) in Florence, Italy.
Previous Spectrum columns by Hanz Gutierrez can be found at: spectrummagazine.org/author/hanz-gutierrez
We should have a balanced view of the importance Adventists attach to Ellen G. White. She is neither an angel nor a devil. While her doctrines and prophecies may be faulty, she is valuable to Adventists in some important ways. She provided comfort to Adventists that sustained them during the humiliation of October 22, 1844, the day of Great Disappointment. We all need comfort. In addition, she provided counsels to Adventists for Christian living. As a result, Adventists have a relatively good moral character. Moreover, Ellen G. White has served as a focal point for the unity of Adventists.
How can one have a balanced view of someone who is clearly a false prophet? Apostle Paul remind us that the new covenant Gospel is wat able ministers of God should preach any other Gospel contradicts scripture. How can comfort come from a false prophet. That only happens when we place mere human interpretation of the clear true Gospel. Adventism have used her lens as a continuing source of teaching, and inspiration, which is contrary to the bible, the word of God as 2 nd Tim 3,16 Says it's the word of God that provides corrections, reproof, instructions, teachings for righteousness, that we may be completed. It' never said through visions false visions that is. Yet still today her plagerized writings and visions r the fundamental pillars, of sda, Can't u see something wrote with this picture?. Adventism evolved through date settings of Christ eminent return. False prophecies And not the pure simple Gospel.
@@charnelallan7159 Yes, I understand what you are saying. However, don't you think labeling Ellen G white a false prophet makes it hard to see her positive side? After all, who of us is perfect in presenting accurately the Gospel? Can anyone claim to be the All-knowing & others ignorant? Although I am not Adventist (I am Bahai), I feel that followers of any religion weaken religion in general when they tear each other up. So, division within the body of Christ will, in the long run, harm religious spirit as a whole. Is it possible, therefore, to have a dialogue with Adventists without presenting them only as false or only as true? To me, unity rather, than division of Christians, will heal humanity. Such unity is possible, I feel, if we see the good in others & not focus only on their shortcomings. A spirit of goodwill can go a long way in restoring peace on earth. I could be wrong; so, how do you see it?
Healing Humanity
Many will say “Lord Lord and He will say depart from me..”
There is only ONE WAY to The Father and that is through The Son.
@@TruthSetFree-zm1ep Yes, I get what you mean. However, who can claim to have a total grasp of the correct interpretation of this statement of Jesus? Who can claim to be right & others wrong? To me, a humble posture of learning can unite humanity, whereas claims of distinction in knowledge or virtue destroys that harmony among God's creatures. Perhaps, I am totally wrong. So, a feed back would help.
Nonsense.
She was a deceiver who plagiarized and manipulated people.
The comfort she provided to the disappointed was misplaced because it was based on untruths and gross misinterpretations of scripture.
Adventists moral character is comparable to that of the Mormons and Evangelicals, nothing special.
What is the value of a uniting focal point for a collection of false doctrines?
You are only saying what you heard not what you know. To bad Sis White can not defend herself. Only God know the heart. I have all her books. Sad,sad, sad.
Burn all her books.
Seventh Day Adventism stands on a very shaky & faulty foundation. We must pray with compassion for their eyes to be opened.
Since all our doctrines agree with the Bible. Not shaky of faulty. White is not our foudatin.
@@samuelwilliams1559 investigative judgment is a Pilar of Adventism that isn't (clearly) in the bible. Certainly not the 1844 interpretation.
Jesus being the archangel Michael is also not scriptural. At best it is conjecture.
Add to that false teachings: the early Church before Constantine worshipped on the first day, Sunday, without the influence of Rome or the catholic church. It's historically inaccurate. Yet this is taught by Adventists.
Do you really believe Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast? It's another false doctrine of Adventism. The world and Satan don't care what day you worship on, once your worship is hypocritical or profane. Every Pharisee worshipped on the traditional Sabbath. Yet they were the ones who killed Jesus.
I won't judge your spirituality but it's quite clear that Seventh Day Adventism is a "strong delusion".
Here is one of my answers from months ago.
Samuel Williams
5 months ago
@Steven Odenthal First we teach salvation by Grace alone through faith alone. As we teach it in agreement with John Wesley. We also teach the Trinity.
I have been away for a few days. So I forgot some other parts. But these are two of the main lies told about us. That we oppose the Trinity and we teach works salvation.
Love.
Galatians 5:22-25 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Five Solas Sola Scriptura, Scripture alone. Sola Fide Faith Alone Sola Gratian by Grace alone Solo Christ. Christ alone. Soli Deo Glory to GOD alone. GRACE G - God's R - Riches A - At C - Christ's E - Expense Love GOD love others follow Jesus.
So give me a section you wish me to answer. I will do so.
Agape
Again with John Wesley, who was a legalist. The resin Ellen had a horrendous view of the character of God is because her parents were Wesleyan Methodists. The entire Harmon family was kicked out of the Methodist church in Portland Maine. Here’s the door, get out of here. Even the Methodists didn’t want the Harmon family around. When you state you teach salvation by grace you prove you don’t know what grace is which is undeserved favor. Adventists are all about earning favor from God. Your golden calf idol day tomorrow is all about earning God’s grace. You can’t earn grace because it’s a free gift that no man can boast earning.
@@rayray4192 So you also attack John Wesley and the Methodist. True they were kicked out when they agreed with William Miller.
Correct Grace is undeserved favor. Since we never teach we can earn salvation that is a lie.
From Eternity Past, p. 245.2 (Ellen Gould White)
The incense represents the merits and intercession of Christ, His perfect righteousness, which through faith is imputed to His people and which can alone make the worship of sinful beings acceptable to God. By blood and by incense God was to be approached-symbols pointing to the great Mediator through whom alone mercy and salvation can be granted to the repentant soul.
From Eternity Past, p. 245.2 (Ellen Gould White)
The incense represents the merits and intercession of Christ, His perfect righteousness, which through faith is imputed to His people and which can alone make the worship of sinful beings acceptable to God. By blood and by incense God was to be approached-symbols pointing to the great Mediator through whom alone mercy and salvation can be granted to the repentant soul.
There are two errors against which the children of God-particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace-especially need to guard. The first ... is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God. He who is trying to become holy by his own works in keeping the law, is attempting an impossibility.... It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy. {Our Father Cares 68.6}
I can find hundreds of places where White states works do not save us.
Show me one place where White states we are saved by the law and works. You cannot find them.
Try actually reading what she wrote. Try the book Steps to Christ and Faith and works.
They are online.
Do you ever wonder why the SDA will NEVER teach on the SPIRITUAL GIFTS but only the fruit of the Spirit?
When you encounter the answer it will be a door to freedom and a better understanding of why you will never grown past a certain point in spiritual devevlopment in that space.
@@jayceejm But I have both had it taught to me and have taught these in Sabbath school classes. So you are not ror4rect here.
We do teach spiritual gifts. One of them being the work of White. So your accusation does not make sense.
How is it possible to say "Sola Scriptura" when this church promotes a prophetess that promotes a teaching on the Inv Judgement that EVEN the SDAC says can't full be taught from scriptures ALONE.
Yes you give a one sided conversation.
Here is a point from the other side not by a SDA. But a cult expert.
Walter Martin Kingdom of the cults. 1985
It is unnecessary to document at great length the fact that the Seventh day Adventism adhere tenaciously to the foundation doctrine of Christian Theology as these have been by the Christian church throughout the centuries Kingdom of the cults page 424 Appendix section.
So if you want to hear only one side. That is your right. But I challenge you to read the Bible.
White agrees with the Bible.
Walter Martin Kingdom of the cults. 1985
It is unnecessary to document at great length the fact that the Seventh day Adventism adhere tenaciously to the foundation doctrine of Christian Theology as these have been by the Christian church throughout the centuries Kingdom of the cults page 424 Appendix section.
You wrote that the Sabbath law is a ceremonial law. So you are first saying in the midst of moral laws a Ceremonial was added. On what Basis.
Have you read Exodus 20. Please do so.
Now let’s take Walter Rea. He reads Ellen White and says: I found a certain phrase here, a certain paragraph there, and it came from this predecessor. Well, that’s not proof; that’s assumption. And I think the first step in any accurate critique is to go back to the real original-it might be Virgil, Homer, the Bible. Because how do you know it was original with the predecessor-how do you know he did not get it from someone else who, in turn, got it from still another earlier someone else? Didn’t Solomon say, “There is no new thing under the sun”?
Review: In your legal opinion, Mr. Ramik, you pointed out that many of the works Mrs. White is accused of “stealing” were, in fact, not copyrighted by either author or publisher, and were, therefore, in the public domain-were thus public property. You went on, further, to point out that even if they had been copyrighted, Ellen White’s use of these materials fell well within the carefully prescribed boundaries of “fair use,” as defined by the law of her day. One contemporary critic, however, raises the question of ethics and propriety: Was it moral for Ellen White to borrow heavily from other people’s literary productions and not, at least, acknowledge the sources? Would you care to respond to the question of ethics here?
Ramik: Well, yes. Walter Rea has publicly said (and I’ve listened to the cassette recording of one of his presentations and then read the verbatim transcript carefully) that there is nothing “moral” in a purely legal definition of plagiarism. Of course, elsewhere, he attacks Mrs. White on moral grounds, on ethical use of others’ materials. Well, first, he’s totally wrong in saying there’s no element of morality in the charge of plagiarism. H. M. Paull, who wrote Literary Ethics about 1928, is still today a recognized authority on the subject. Incidentally, while he never came right out and defined “plagiarism” in his book (because, as I said a moment ago, “plagiarism,” per se, is not a crime), he does contrast plagiarism with piracy. The literary pirate does not care whether he gets caught; but the plagiarist worries that he will be found out. (And you say there’s no element of morality involved in plagiarism!) Incidentally, to accuse Ellen White of plagiarizing Conybeare & Howson’s uncopyrighted Life of Paul is absurd, if for no other reason than the fact that she publicly urged her readers to get a copy and read it for themselves.
Review: All right; but, still, would you care to comment upon whether Ellen White encroached in the area of ethics by using materials-quotations, paraphrases, ideas, and so on-of others without publicly stating where she got them?
Ramik: There is no reason why Ellen White could not use the ideas of others in expressing the thoughts she wished to convey. It’s not even rational to expect someone writing on a theological subject, for example, to write in the abstract without researching what others who have gone before-or even contemporaries-have said on the subject.
@@c19comandante57 When the SDA got more money. They edited the books. Many times adding the places where from other authors. caused a problem among some SDA.
On the basis that God can do whatever he wants. Count the Hebrew words in the words of the covenant, or the ten sayings, which was the Decalogue. Precisely in the center of the Decalogue God placed a sacred feast day; : a weekly ritual that served as a sign between two parties; God and Israel. The Decalogue was only the executive summary of the entire law. It was never intended to be permanent and it was never the entire law of God. it was a small part of The Book of the Law. It was given to a specific group until the promise to Abraham was fulfilled. Here’s biblical proof who the Hebrew ritual law of sabbaton was given to. “ And thou hast remembered that a servant thou hast been in the land of Egypt, and Jehovah thy God is bringing thee out thence with a strong hand, and by a stretched out arm, therefore hath Jehovah thy God commanded thee to keep the day of the sabbath.” Deuteronomy 5:15. Young’s Literal Translation. Sabbston is associated with new moons and yearly festivals. It was a ritual law just like the Jubillee, feast of booths, Passover, and feast of lights ( Hanukkah). Adventists are Bible illiterate and Judaizers so they ascribe eternal significance to a temporary ritual given to Jews. There’s no moral component to sabbston. It was a ritual. New covenant believers have one ritual; communion. Remember the blood and body of Christ. No need to remember escaping slavery in Egypt. Adventists are not Christians. Christians are not jews.
@@rayray4192 Nice set of insults at the end there. Why do you choose the tools of Satan to disparage us and put SDA down?
First the Sabbath is in Genesis 2 as being during creations. In the Ten Commandments it is repeated.
Now on your dispensationalist assertion. I have to disagree.
SDA follow Protestant Covenant theology. So in fact we teach Christians and Jew are one group. Israel.
Israel the Church.
Church Israel
Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Romans 2:28,29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 9:6-8 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Romans 11:12 - 24 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh and might save some of them.
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Ephesians 2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
So show me why you teach against scripture?
@@samuelwilliams1559 why do you bark at the church judaizer dog? Your despicable demonic cult has been judging the church for 178 years. A man must be demon possessed to proclaim born again Christians will receive the mark of an evil man simply because of the day they gather with other believers to worship their Lord. You are very sick and disturbed. Evil. Here’s the apostle Paul disparaging you.” Watch out for the dogs, the evil doers, the mutilators of the flesh. For we are the true circumcision who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh. “ Philippians 3:2-3. It’s obvious to all Christians that Adventists put confidence in the flesh by giving eternal significance to a temporary Hebrew ritual law and make it a salvation issue. You can’t see your gross error because of the demons that live in your head and the stone eye glasses you look through. New covenant believers are not Jews. There are no jews on earth. The entire Jewish system was ended and a new covenant and a new priesthood and a new law has been established. Jeremiah gave Israel this message a long time ago. Israel rejected the messiah and the new covenant. You are not a Christian.
Ellen G White wrote about Jesus, repentance, fear of God, and Jesus' second coming but for you, you are writing about her, woe unto you
What third world country did the heretical Adventist demonic cult capture you in?
hmmmm
What was copied ? this all sounds like hear say.....
It is so sad. That ex SDA have to reject the words of Paul. To get their views on the law of GOD.
Love fulfills the law.
Romans 13:8-10
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
So why would the law which is about love be done away with?
Read Hebrews chapter 6 in context. Stop tap dancing.
@@matthewtoves8919 Hebrews 6:1-20
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Better Things for You
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Amen and Amen. SDA have no problem affirming every word here.
Sadly there are those who once were saved. But now turn against God and the Bible.
Jesus is our High priest after Melchisedec.
So what tap dancing?
@@samuelwilliams1559 and you still have no idea what it means 😂
Show me why you teach these words are false.
1. The law is not done away with it is established. Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 1 John 3:4 whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
2. The law does not save. Its job is to define sin. Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Read Romans 6 and Ephesians 2
3. Love leads us to follow the law. Jesus and Paul list’s directly six of the Ten Commandments. Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
2Corithians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4. Most people agree with the first three as they being sins. Of the other four all will admit that it is a sin to have other gods, bow down and worship idols and to take the name of GOD in vain. Protestant Ministers have stated the Ten Commandments are for Christians. dedication.www3.50megs.com/greatmen.html Great Preachers on the Ten Commandments. John Calvin taught extensively on the Ten Commandments In this way it will be made more clear, that the worship which God originally prescribed is still in force,… 10commandments.biz/biz/john_calvin_and_ten_commandments.phtml John Calvin: Here I think it will not be out of place to introduce the Ten Commandments of the law with a short explanation of them. Thus, the point I have touched upon will also be made clearer: that the public worship that God once prescribed is still in force. www.monergism.com/explanation-moral-law-ten-commandments-john-calvin en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments Wikipedia
5 1Corithians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Seventh Day Adventist beliefs on RUclips. ruclips.net/video/MItuZ1a-3R4/видео.html
Five Solas Sola Scriptura, Scripture alone. Sola Fide Faith Alone Sola Gratian by Grace alone Solo Christ. Christ alone. Soli Deo Glory to GOD alone. GRACE G - God's R - Riches A - At C - Christ's E - Expense Love GOD love others follow Jesus.
This is what SDA teach.
You have purposely not mentioned any of her prophesies that came through.
Can you please share one Ellen White prophesy which came to pass?
@@clarkent61 That the United States would join with the Pope.
@@samuelwilliams1559 : 🤣🤣🤣 Please don’t go on about the Sunday law🤣
The sabbath is NOT binding on any Christian. Here is the prophet Jeremiah prophesying about the revocation of the Sinatic covenant which gave the SABBATH to ISREAL:
Jeremiah 31:31-32
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
Jeremiah was prophesying about the BETTER COVENANT mediated by the blood of Christ which abolishes the sabbath as all the old ordnance, signified by the rending from top to bottom of the veil to the holy of Holies in the earthly temple.
IF ONLY YOU WOULD ACTUALLY READ THE BIBLE AND NOT ELLEN WHITE, YOU WOULD NOT APPEAR AS RIDICULOUS AS YOU DO NOW🤣
@@clarkent61 I have only answered queestion about the Sunday law. So why are you saying words I do not say?
I have given this quote to you many times. Somehow you do not seem to understand it.
You said. (Jeremiah 31:31-32
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
Jeremiah was prophesying about the BETTER COVENANT mediated by the blood of Christ which abolishes the sabbath as all the old ordnance, signified by the rending from top to bottom of the veil to the holy of Holies in the earthly temple.)
Correct as I have agreed to over and over. The problem is you cut out part of the words.
Why do you teach the laws of love of GOD and love of others are gone?
2Corithians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Why do you teach that Many other denominations are going to be lost since they teach to keep the Ten Commandments.
@@clarkent61 So when did I reject the New Covenant? I have read five different versions on the bible cover to cover. I have even red some paraphrases of the New Testament. Four if memory serves me. Why do you not use the bible to show me wrong?
He is taking everything out of context!!!!
9:23 Steve Daly makes the outrageous claim that Ellen White would "endorse" what Bates and James White said, which gave them influence. That's not anywhere near the truth of the matter.
It seems like everyone who wants to put down God's messenger has to resort to falsehoods to support their position.
And you know that because you have done all the research and studies, right? I can tell you that she also lied about never having a vision that supported the satanic shut door message she once preached. And preached to the point where she would tell people to stop evangelising. it is pointless anyone says they have come to Christ after 1844 is deceiving themselves. Wow!!
And after all that she becomes the founder of a denomination and the SDA's spirit of prophecy. I encourage you to do the research. It is no longer hard in this information age AND you don't need to deviate from her own writings my brother.
@@jayceejm jayceejm repeats lies heard from somebody and thinks that settles the matter.
I've read probably more Ellen White material than 99.99% of SDAs, and know that she was a true prophet, and that the information you give here is not correct.
@@jayceejm That she made mistakes is well documented. But that her body of truth is founded on scriptrue and truth. That is also well founded. Saying true words that other Christians also stated were true words does not make her false. It show that she agreed as the SDA do with other Christians. But I have found that in my view you take some of her words out of context. When I read the whole passages.
I was raised in the church! How come I get censored out every time I try to get my message across? WHY 😂?? SOME PEOPLE CAN'T STAND THE REAL TRUTH?? Especially when I stated the reasons why I left!
Robert Childers
Mathew 13:33
Mathew 7:15
The reason is because SDA is built on a false prophet-and they have built on sinking sand.
@@TruthSetFree-zm1ep Free, Ellen White never contradicted the Bible.
@@statutesofthelord You know by now you guys really should be prepared to stop saying that. Its 2023 for crying out loud. This is NOT 1923!! Ellen White HAS contradicted the Bible.
@@jayceejm jayceejm, Do you have any evidence? The only one that I've seen that even appears on the surface to have traction is the one about "food for worms", but when compared to the Bible, that statement is very similar to a statement Paul made.
Abraham said SarAh was his sister without explaining that she was also his wife. He is a credible servant of God.
He was not making a prophetic statement or speaking on behalf of God when he did that lie.
Ellen White's lies were in speaking for God.
Not the same.
@@thenowchurch6419 Now let’s take Walter Rea. He reads Ellen White and says: I found a certain phrase here, a certain paragraph there, and it came from this predecessor. Well, that’s not proof; that’s assumption. And I think the first step in any accurate critique is to go back to the real original-it might be Virgil, Homer, the Bible. Because how do you know it was original with the predecessor-how do you know he did not get it from someone else who, in turn, got it from still another earlier someone else? Didn’t Solomon say, “There is no new thing under the sun”?
Review: In your legal opinion, Mr. Ramik, you pointed out that many of the works Mrs. White is accused of “stealing” were, in fact, not copyrighted by either author or publisher, and were, therefore, in the public domain-were thus public property. You went on, further, to point out that even if they had been copyrighted, Ellen White’s use of these materials fell well within the carefully prescribed boundaries of “fair use,” as defined by the law of her day. One contemporary critic, however, raises the question of ethics and propriety: Was it moral for Ellen White to borrow heavily from other people’s literary productions and not, at least, acknowledge the sources? Would you care to respond to the question of ethics here?
Ramik: Well, yes. Walter Rea has publicly said (and I’ve listened to the cassette recording of one of his presentations and then read the verbatim transcript carefully) that there is nothing “moral” in a purely legal definition of plagiarism. Of course, elsewhere, he attacks Mrs. White on moral grounds, on ethical use of others’ materials. Well, first, he’s totally wrong in saying there’s no element of morality in the charge of plagiarism. H. M. Paull, who wrote Literary Ethics about 1928, is still today a recognized authority on the subject. Incidentally, while he never came right out and defined “plagiarism” in his book (because, as I said a moment ago, “plagiarism,” per se, is not a crime), he does contrast plagiarism with piracy. The literary pirate does not care whether he gets caught; but the plagiarist worries that he will be found out. (And you say there’s no element of morality involved in plagiarism!) Incidentally, to accuse Ellen White of plagiarizing Conybeare & Howson’s uncopyrighted Life of Paul is absurd, if for no other reason than the fact that she publicly urged her readers to get a copy and read it for themselves.
Review: All right; but, still, would you care to comment upon whether Ellen White encroached in the area of ethics by using materials-quotations, paraphrases, ideas, and so on-of others without publicly stating where she got them?
Ramik: There is no reason why Ellen White could not use the ideas of others in expressing the thoughts she wished to convey. It’s not even rational to expect someone writing on a theological subject, for example, to write in the abstract without researching what others who have gone before-or even contemporaries-have said on the subject.
Will Walter Rea stand up---- Now let’s take Walter Rea. He reads Ellen White and says: I found a certain phrase here, a certain paragraph there, and it came from this predecessor. Well, that’s not proof; that’s assumption. And I think the first step in any accurate critique is to go back to the real original-it might be Virgil, Homer, the Bible. Because how do you know it was original with the predecessor-how do you know he did not get it from someone else who, in turn, got it from still another earlier someone else? Didn’t Solomon say, “There is no new thing under the sun”?
Review: In your legal opinion, Mr. Ramik, you pointed out that many of the works Mrs. White is accused of “stealing” were, in fact, not copyrighted by either author or publisher, and were, therefore, in the public domain-were thus public property. You went on, further, to point out that even if they had been copyrighted, Ellen White’s use of these materials fell well within the carefully prescribed boundaries of “fair use,” as defined by the law of her day. One contemporary critic, however, raises the question of ethics and propriety: Was it moral for Ellen White to borrow heavily from other people’s literary productions and not, at least, acknowledge the sources? Would you care to respond to the question of ethics here?
Ramik: Well, yes. Walter Rea has publicly said (and I’ve listened to the cassette recording of one of his presentations and then read the verbatim transcript carefully) that there is nothing “moral” in a purely legal definition of plagiarism. Of course, elsewhere, he attacks Mrs. White on moral grounds, on ethical use of others’ materials. Well, first, he’s totally wrong in saying there’s no element of morality in the charge of plagiarism. H. M. Paull, who wrote Literary Ethics about 1928, is still today a recognized authority on the subject. Incidentally, while he never came right out and defined “plagiarism” in his book (because, as I said a moment ago, “plagiarism,” per se, is not a crime), he does contrast plagiarism with piracy. The literary pirate does not care whether he gets caught; but the plagiarist worries that he will be found out. (And you say there’s no element of morality involved in plagiarism!) Incidentally, to accuse Ellen White of plagiarizing Conybeare & Howson’s uncopyrighted Life of Paul is absurd, if for no other reason than the fact that she publicly urged her readers to get a copy and read it for themselves.
Review: All right; but, still, would you care to comment upon whether Ellen White encroached in the area of ethics by using materials-quotations, paraphrases, ideas, and so on-of others without publicly stating where she got them?
Ramik: There is no reason why Ellen White could not use the ideas of others in expressing the thoughts she wished to convey. It’s not even rational to expect someone writing on a theological subject, for example, to write in the abstract without researching what others who have gone before-or even contemporaries-have said on the subject.
There is a group of our far right people who do support White as the final word. But the problem they have. Is she does not.
"Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and you make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don't you give a rap any more what 'Sister White Said' -'Sister White said this,' and 'Sister White said that,' and 'Sister White said the other thing'. But say, 'Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.'" -- Spalding and Magan Collection 167.2
We are not all united in all points. But you seem to have not read the words of White. Just the words of those who attack and lie about her. She was not perfect. But no one but Jesus is.
So I state show me from the Bible where our doctrines are false.
Investigative judgement, Satan the scapegoat, Michael the ark angel is Christ, the sanctuary doctrine, obligatory Sabbath for salvation Sunday law, Sunday worshippers will receive the mark of the beast, 1844 prophecy
@@charnelallan7159 The Bible says all will be judged.
Nkjv John 16:7-11 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. “And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: “of sin, because they do not believe in Me; “of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; “of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Isaiah 56:2-6 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
So you teach the scapegoat is Jesus. So you teach Jesus died twice. Where can you show me Jesus died twice.
The Bible states the Sanctuary is real.
. Hebrews 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Hebrews 8:6-13 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Now if you mean that those who know the Sabbath and are convicted are to keep Sabbath. Than correct. But those who are ignorant who love GOD and love others will go to heaven. That is what we teach.
The Mark of the Beast is a future event and i snot occurring yet.
We teach the Trinity. We agree with other Protestants. On it being once of the Titles of GOD the son.
Michael Arch Angel
In the Old Testament, the pre-incarnate Jesus appears from time to time. He is given different titles. This is recognized by all Protestant Scholars.
Michael is argued about. Most say it is just an angel. Has nothing to do with Jesus.
Others say it is an Angel that angel is Jesus. Which makes Jesus an angel.
Some say they are not sure.
But another group which includes Seventh day Adventist teach that it is a title of the Pre-Incarnate Jesus who is not an angel except as it means messenger. That Jesus the Christ is GOD. But that Michael is one of his pre-incarnate names. Now this view takes us out of the cult category since it agrees with the Trinity. You can say we are wrong. I think we are right. But since it is not calling Jesus an angel. We maintain and stay in the Trinity believing Christian Theology.
"The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the 'child' and the archangel in Rev 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel ." -- John A. Lees, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1930, Vol. 3, page 2048.
“The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the Preincarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the “child” and the archangel in Rev. 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel” - vol. 3, p. 2048, Eerdmans Publishing, 1984 printing.
So all your accusations are incorrect.
What do you mean by the 1844 Prophecy? If you mean that it was wrong on the time of Jesus coming. correct I and all SDA agree.
We think it is another event. Dealing with the Judgement day.
So none of these have you proved to be false doctrines. In fact you show you don't understand what we teach.
God is love. God be with you and yours.
@@samuelwilliams1559 Show me which scripture says Satan is the sin bearer
@@samuelwilliams1559 the sanctuary doctrine states Christ atonement wasn't completed at the cross that's blasphemous Hebrews, 9 1-14
@@samuelwilliams1559 where is 1844 in scripture? All prophecies align with scripture, meaning foretold? Where is it. U need to read more it will be of great help in ur explanation. Ur just repeating wat ur told. Which scripture says Christ went from one compartment to the next, wasn't he sitted at the right hand of the father after his ascension, this doctrine is blasphemy against scripture
I found my book Ellen G, White and Her Critics. By Francis D. Nichol If memory serves me it answers all of your gossip.
I don't like EGW but I really like your outfit.
Pitiful
ruclips.net/video/V5tBZykyWSI/видео.html Dwight Nelson is right on this one.
Jesuit!
Did she copy the vision of the destruction of the twin towers in america?
No.
@@janik7883 True. GOD bless you and keep you and yours.
@@samuelwilliams1559 May God bless you too sir^^
You men need to repent. You are playing the role of satan. How under God's heaven is this helping your suppose walk with God.
May God help you to turn from being the agents of the devil to the agents of God.