What is the future of the Tory party? | The News Agents
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- A tale of two thinktanks - you lucky things.
Jon has spent the day at the Tony Blair Institute and Emily has been with the Popular Conservatives (PopCons), Liz Truss' former parish.
After the worst result in their history, how does the Conservative party rebuild?
And what lessons are those on the right of the party taking away from Thursday night's defeat? Lewis talks to former party treasurer and donor, Lord Michael Spencer, about the direction for the party now.
Later, crunch time for Joe Biden - will his own party really seek to remove him before the week is done?
#popcon #conservatives #suellabraverman #joebiden #liztruss #uk #ukpolitics #americanpolitics #usa #News #Politics #NewsAgents #EmilyMaitlis #JonSopel #LewisGoodall
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I once travelled the World as a somewhat proudish British bloke. The last ten years have been truly awful. The incompetence and entitlement mixed with hubris is/has been so damaging. However, the new Government gives me great hope.
It's not bad to be less proudish of the current state of the UK.
Suella makes my skin crawl. The hatred and devision she creates is palpable. If she or Kemi became party leader that would be horrific.
... on the other hand...it would guarantee Labour get another couple of terms!
@@swanvictor887 every cloud has a silver lining
Mogg was rather snippy there, must still be stinging from getting booted from such a safe seat.
My heart weeps for him! 🤣🤣🤣
Braverman is making a weird play, making herself look and feel like a dictator from a George Orwell novel, I’m not sure it’s going to win the popular vote.
maybe she thinks she can copy the Repugs in the USA - go through the Courts to change the Laws from the inside as it were. Use Think-Tanks and Big Business for money...soon the Voters become Irrelevant, as they are in the USA.
For the sake of humanity I hope not.
The tories are stuck in the past, they will never learn - I'm very happy to say.
Well, given that Braverman cited the second world war in her speech, I think you might well be correct! 😆
@@williamevans9426 Jesus - I thought I had misheard that. “Don’t mention the war!’
@@stevebell6057 I thought so too, initially, so I replayed it twice! I hope I misheard three times.
@@stevebell6057I did it once but I think I got away with it!
Really don't want to hear about them for a while, or hopefully ever again. Seriously.
It would be great if we didn’t wouldn’t it’s?
Total, utter irrelevance. Cruella was whinging about pride flags today, and I didn't even bat an eyelid because she's no longer in a position to dictate her hateful views.
Absoutely. And the press should stop giving her the airtime.
Those who voted for her must be mad😮..
@@hydra66simply ignoring far right and facists doesnt work. You have to argue against them and explain why they're wrong
They're not irrelevant. Far from it. A large portion of the people who turned up voted for right wing parties and if they absorb Reform or ape their policies, then they're going to succeed. The culture war stuff does resonate, whether people like it or not, and there is a sense of exasperation with people not being able to concretely define what a woman is. I'm in a constituency that adjoins Lee Anderson's and the groundswell of support for those right of centre policies is palpable. People don't like immigrants, think trans rights have gone way too far and don't like paying taxes.
@@Hartley_Hare Except trans people have been around for decades. Much like the EU, people are only now disliking them because they're being told to. I suspect that if life gets better for most people, it takes away the urge to "blame" a section of society and the populist argument falls flat.
Funny how we've already moved on from them. Onto better things.
it's hilarious that her takeaway from the election was "yeah we need to do more culture war"
Whilst new culture secretary Lisa Nandy has decreed the culture wars over, it speaks volumes
@@williamchapple8886 maybe voters like actual policies that will improve their lives vs whatever twenty year old tory staffers think gets clicks on social
@@williamchapple8886Lisa Nandy is a compete idiot
Pls let them go down this rabbit hole, the longer it takes them to come back the more progress we can make as a country.
Like a doctor telling you "This drug is making your condition worse. I propose to double the dose".
Suella is worse than Farage, in my view
Only because he projects an image of someone you can have a pint with. And I'm sure he'd be a fine drinking partner. But the sum total of his views are just as dangerous. The difference is, he's more palatable to the British electorate. Suella is just auditioning for a career as the next Candace Owens. That's where the money is
She's just more openly hateful
@@mansnotbot4160 spot on mate, farago plays a caricature of the average bloke in a pub , great analysis
Farage is just a better politician that’s all. He knows how to say things without directly saying things (public school education) so that he can deny accusations of extremism. He knows precisely which buttons to push in order to gain a reaction.
@@Nova2Yung a friend of mine was on the same Question Time as Farage a while back and in the Green Room he was incredibly obnoxious about how poor the red wine choice was and was generally being rude to staff. His public image of ‘straight shooting, a pint of real ale please landlord, affability’ is a total sham. His private views are every bit as toxic as Cruella’s but, unlike her, he knows when to keep schtum! An elitist to his bootstraps he will not look forward to listening to the moans of the Clacton brigade (if indeed he even bothers to show up more than once in a blue moon)
Michael Spencer sums up everything that is vile about the Tories, everyone scratches everyone else's backs and ignores the country that you are supposed to be serving, and we have proved to be corrupt but the opposition might be too, so that's OK then. What an excuse for corrupt politics.
Tom Tugendhat is the Tories' only hope
If they elect Suella, Priti or Kemi, they're done
Jenrick?
@@mrD66M I thought he was alright. But his interview with Kuenssberg where he blamed everything on immigration shows he's learned nothing. That and he's a general wet lettuce
What a coven! 😮
He wanted Boris to come back. He's no better than the rest.
I would say they are done anyhow..
Tolerance. Empathy. Compassion. Strength through diversity. Fairness.
Great British virtues.
Diversity is not, and never was, anybody's strength.
@@maewest68 Countries where ALL people contribute have ALWAYS been stronger than those that relied on limited numbers.
@@LeafHuntress All and always are quite strong words.
@maewest68 north Korean?
Natavist? @@maewest68
Speaking from tory free Country I don't care.
This guy is the embodiment on what's wrong with this country.....nothing about the country or its people, not a care in the world they absolutely only care about themselves and what they can do for themselves.....climbing the greasy pole by any means necessary....DISGUSTING!!!
30:14 He’s got no answer to that. Just ‘whataboutism’. Coward. Get that lot _out_ of the House of Lords. Crucially he says leg work ‘for a _political party’_ - not the British people.
Michael Spencer is clamouring for a peerage, party donors shouldn't be given such appointments. The work done for one’s part should a selfless act.
@@karlclark8625 And regardless - it was for _party_ and not _country_ - we owe him nothing
Snouts in the trough. Party first country... pah sod the plebs! is their motto.
I’m not convinced they have a future.
Fingers crossed
Braverman won her seat and didn't go to be sworn in? Class act.
Surely the Popular Conservatives need a name change just to avoid being accused of false advertising.
I agree.. They should change their name to the:
Conservatives for Unity, Nationality & Total Security
@@originalbadboy32 Farage's United Conservative... K... I need a K...
@@PaulInPorirua Kabal?
@@originalbadboy32 Excellent. We're getting there. You call Suella, and I'll get the PowerPoint together.
Cameron was a competent leader? Isn't he responsible for Brexit?
Negative productivity for as long as the Tories have been in charge, then?
We don’t care about them anymore.
Yeah. I think they must have booked and paid for the venue months ago.
you dont care about an opposition in a democracy? where are you from, China?
Reform now, lefties and immigrants out.
Your mum@@nenehermannfoundation1187
@@simony2801 Where should I go to?
Its future is short, hopefully.
Braverman is obviously learniing a lot from Trumpism, while she's over in the US. Fear of the Pride flag, transphobia etc.
During the interview where this man became very defensive about appointing treasurers or donors to the House of Lords: the argument he made was that someone providing services to a party should get a lifetime appointment in the country’s legislative body. Not for services to the country, to a party. I feel the interviewer let that dichotomy go to easily, in the flow of the discussion, stepping over to the “look” of the thing too fast, as if agreeing with him.
Does anybody else think that as the generations that fought fascism in WW2 pass away so has passed their direct experience and defence of humanity?
Spot on
Have you seen how few young people would consider voting tory? They're dinosaurs walking.
But Reform plc got alot of young votes. Their tiktok campaign was quite successful.
@@colincampbell4261yes, they got quite a bit support from younger men than younger women. I'm left wondering why.
@@Coops5361 Acolytes of the Tate brothers maybe? Worrying all the same.
@@clarecrawford9677 yes it is worrying.
"wheel him out into the sun"
Cheers Lewis I literally lost my mind at that :D
The Conservative Party needs more intelligent politicians.
She’s a disgrace
Most people aren’t extremist and I say this as an extremist, extreme left or right politics freaks most people out. If the Tories do similar to what Starmer did they might gain some seats in 2029, not that they’d deserve them no matter what they do next.
Lewis’s blunt question to the former Party Treasurer - “In what direction do you think it was it insufficiently conservative?” - was great.
Brings on a tory who instantly starts lying and trying to explain away the corruption we all witnessed.
It was the best of thinktanks, it was the worst of thinktanks……
Well done Lewis you tid him up in Nuts great show as ever how is Emily's poltergeist😅😊
Haha, that defence of lordship was revealing. And Disgusting.
Political analysts are So arrogant. The electorate does not map the political landscape as left or right - but wrong and right. It understands first past the post and so the wipe out was intended, the flirtation with minor parties is intended. Voting is situational who is to say that with PR we wouldn’t get the same result? Reform’s 4m votes were piled up in a small number of constituencies when the savvy Labour and LibDems focussed their efforts on winning individual races. I am in Liz Truss’ old seat we openly spoke to other voters agreeing to vote for anyone but Truss and we wiped out a 24,000 majority. We are not political analysts but we understand how our politics works.
Yes well said, I've heard so much talk about vote share from the Conservatives and reform. Fact is that your campaign strategy is based on the game at play. You cannot just transfer results from FPTP and assume the same result because under PR party strategy would be different. Corbyn stacked up more votes but not efficiently so it was a pointless tactic. We lost a game of football but if we were playing polo we would have done better is a nonsense argument.
What would Peel and Disraeli make of the claim that they 'Were not Conservative enough'? I doubt they would recognize or agree with anything they said.
Honours for cash. Trying to defend the indefensible.
Most of what made me ashamed of Britain was down to the Tories - austerity, migrant blaming, culture warring. Perhaps I can start to have some pride in my country now that they're no longer in government.
Braverman is hate filled. Not the marches.
Suella Braverman quoting "Common law" in the opening. Is a possible sign she's going after the Sovereign Citizens crowd.
Fml.
She's a lawyer. I hope not. But you can't rule it out.
House of lords needs serious reform. I'm glad this is on Labour's radar, even if it's baby steps.
Oh yes, Reformers glued to Purcell and Tallis and Gainsborough and Austen! Lol
They are in total denial of what has actually happened to them. They still don't seem to understand.
Lewis loves talking over Emily
Suella who? Oh, you mean Cruella! Yeh, we have all moved on. The media need to follow the British public and do the same.
One omission in the guest's analysis of what went wrong. Interestingly, he didn't mention it, and I think tellingly , didn't mention Brexit. Unfortunately, he was not challenged on this here. He seems the voice of reason, but I suspect his £250,000 was for the 2019 'Brexit ' Conservative party 🥳
Great discussion 👍
THINGS 🎵CAN ONLY🎶 GET BETTER !🎶 THINGS CAN 🎶ONLY 🎶GET BETTER !🎵
the bit you left out was that since the debate Bidens numbers have strengthened against trump
He still trails. Against a candidate who is openly promising to be an authoritarian dictator. The latest polls indicate that the most popular prospective ticket would be Clinton-Harris ffs.
This quote sums up the Tories current situation:
Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake.
Trump is applying that😂. Maybe Suella is going for lessons from Trump😂
Conservatism has lost to one of the natural forces. This particular one called ‘evolution’.
I am in my mid sixties, and the nonsense from Braverman wouldn’t even appeal to my parents, but my grand parents might have offered the odd nod of agreement.
His defense of overt Tory corruption was pitiful! "Why shouldn't someone who helps out theTories be given a seat in the Lords for life?!?" - It's supposed to be for acts of service to the COUNTRY! Pathetic.
The conservative party is becoming more conservative because it's the only way to keep the right side just for them and not let others take over their electorate.
See what is going on in Poland and you will understand the strategy.
All the reform commenters have vanished since the election.
Did the bot farm contract end?
Pretty sure the russian bots moved on to trying to get the far right installed in France, which they also failed to do.
The Russians moved on to the next Western democracy
He justified being made a lord because of working for, and donating to, the party. How about working for the country?
Being named Sue-Ellen after the chatacter on Dallas gave Braverman a massive inferiority complex.
Canada-style-bad was awaiting them before Farage entered the contest. At that point, the differential was 43% - 21%. Nigel actually saved the Tories from wipe-out.
During the 80s and 90s those on the left thought that Alliance + Labour votes = victory. That assumed that Alliance voters were just left voters. Not true as people like Nick Clegg prove. Similarly it's silly to think that all Tory voters are as conservative as Reform voters. They're not. If Tories became Reform then many Tory voters would switch to Lib Dems.
Alliance as in Northern Ireland Alliance Party? Don't remember them as a major factor when it came swinging UK elections. Oh and I agree with your last sentence, those who deserted the Tories for the Lib Dems in places like Oxfordshire where the Tories were wiped out are hardly going to return to a party even further to the right.
@@I_Evo I meant SDP Liberal Alliance. Maybe before your time.
@@ShahidKhan-ke8fe Yes I remember the SDP, probably the modern equivalent to the short lived Change UK party. Don't recall them ever being called the Alliance though.
The Tory party may talk about listening while it's stunned...just wait until Sunak throws in the towel and a leadership contest opens. Listening will be the last thing on the mind of those in a pub brawl!
Interesting Spencer interview. Better spoken than Braverman, but still seems to think the Tories weren't right wing enough!
And very complacent on Tory corruption.
Pop Cons limp and damp? What a nasty image!
Cameron…a very competent leader…😂 Amazing how he, who through his cowardice, arrogance and incompetence began the damage and destruction that followed, has somehow escaped censure with his reputation intact. He has just again behaved like the self-serving coward that he is and received no more censure than a cheeky schoolboy would.
I don't see any comments about Lewis's interview with Spencer. Some really nice questioning to get a top donor to reflect on cronyism in the Conservative party. It doesnt just look bad, it looks like a plutocracy.
Agreed. Such entitlement. Let's hope the latest narrative on 'service' ends those assumptions.
What about Brexit? Surely only something as big as that can fully explain the scale of this defeat?
No future no future for you.
Imagine these talking heads allowing a real working class bloke like me on to ask a few uncomfortable questions ? Never gonna happen
the Tory’s Did make history by having Liz truss be the shortest prime Minister in the uk
He is comfortable with buying his lifelong seat in the Lords and his only defences are others do it, it’s only a relatively small number and, although he doesn’t say it but obviously he believes corruption is a fundamental part of the Tory party practise ! !
Genuinely impressed with Lord Spencer. I'm never going to be a Tory, but have to say Spencer is a credit to them.
Still too cowardly to disown Cruella’s vitriol.
@@methanedirigibleeh? He said he didn't agree with it....
Still too greedy to agree that money shouldn't buy you a seat in the Lords.
@@dang6092 And didn’t have the stones to criticise her directly. Just a weak “Oooh it’s inappropriate”. Again, I say _coward_
@@methanedirigible 😂 think you're nit picking there
Reform plc - Putin's foriegn policy and Truss's economic policy.
Since 2016, the UK electorate has sent a quite clear message about what it wants, which does not appear to have much to do with left or right. It is about how we want to be governed. It did not want an idle political class effectively outsourcing key decision making to a distant body such as the EU. It told the political classes that if they want the trappings of power then they should assume the responsibilities of it. The Tories were given benefit of the doubt for achieving this, albeit with a severe warning in 2017, but ultimately failed because they had no clear vision for achieving what they were being asked to implement and the debacle of Covid showed just how disjointed governance was in this country. A Labour government, with its sandcastle majority, will suffer the same fate if, as seems to be the case so far, they want to continue allowing decision making to be a function of obscure and disjointed quangos, "departmental reviews" and NGO lobbying. Starmer's vision, such as it can be discerned, shines with all the brightness of a Toc H lamp and the UK electorate will be quite happy to turn it off if it fails to illuminate a path towards which it has been pointing with increasing frustration.
I'm gonna be a devil's advocate here. IMO there is still a political space for centre-right conservatism (Labour has only adopted some of their positions to get elected, and deal with the dumpster fire tories left behind) - but that has to be pragmatic, grounded, with a forward vision and decidedly non-ideological.
Politics need balance, a left needs a right BUT no parties from either end of the seesaw can provide that. Ideological debates trying to drag "centre" voters with them instead of taking heed of their primary concerns almost invariably ends up in the situation we're in now.
Glad the Tories are in their rightful place now - providing comedy rather than tragedy.
Breaverman is toxic
The success of Reform is due to people's concern that their culture is under threat. Whether this is real or imagined, the centre need to reassure those that it isn't under threat.
"We lost the culture wars." [Internal arguments and strife.] "Let's start a culture war."
Hopefully, they don't learn and spend an eternity in the wilderness as they become more bitter, delusional and irrelevant.
Lord Spencer almost seems reasonable at times. Bring up immigration, legal or otherwise, and maybe not… 🤯
21:38 - From that response we can be assured the answer was a big NO.
Typing ‘Victorian Age Thinking’ brought me here.
Braverman will fail in her bid to become leader and flounce off to the Reform rabble. Then fall out with them...
the Tory party lost it's mind the use to before the EU and business and forgot all that, they turned their backs on Mrs T
In 1983 Tony Benn celebrated the Labour party getting barely 28% of the vote as a victory for socialism. Labour had lost badly (just over 200 seats left) - amongst those out of parliament included Tony Benn.
Emily please review your expression as KGM was interviewing Jeremy Corbyn during election night - can you explain?
Perhaps some smart designer uniforms would help their image?
And polished boots
You also can't extrapolate from FPTP to PR number of votes
She is trying to hard she gaslighting she said our religion what does she meant we are not one religion i was watching new parliament swearing in and they were swearing with different religious books what does she think about that
She didn't participate. Is she the single non MP in the country?
I especially liked the diversity in languages.
The different books as well. Most went for the KJV, but others asked for a catholic bible or just the new or old testament. One person held the old & the new testament? Wes Streeting requested the new Geneva bible i gather. And that one Sikh guy that wanted to take an oath, but to not hold a book.
I had the most respect for that SDLP guy that added to his affirmation that he took this under duress & that his allegiance belonged to his constituents.
Hello Emily. Did you miss the details. Labour had a reduced percentage of votes. The " people " didn't go " left ".
Spencer's obvious sense of entitlement was pathetic and revealing in equal measure.
Imagine the children conspiracy theory.............being at the centre of an entire argument considering the inconsistencies of many errors of conservatives.
Suella needs soul searching and time out for a reality check.......
22 of their biggest donors got peerages (£54 million). The going rate for a peerage is £3+ million in donations.
The future is to redeem.
The PopCon public are likely annoyed that the Tories were nowhere near Reform UK enough. Rabbit holes would seem to be really comfortable places if you just go down them far enough.
If they want it exist, it’s to be actually conservative, a right of centre alternative appealing to people who will actually vote for them rather than pandering to people who won’t
Edit - there shouldn’t be a left of the party, that’s the point
And how's that going to win back those 50 or so seats they lost to the Lib Dems? You really think those disaffected Tory voters will be attracted by a party even further to the right or is the aim just to win back the Reform mob?
Well done suella. Nothing wtong wirh hating people like you. Such a brave self sacrificing Aunt Jemina
Jeremy Corbyn got more votes than Keir Starmer did though, so how can their principal take away of "We need to be less like Corbyn" be accurate?
They won because their opposition was split, not because they were popular.
Agreed Starmer's campaign was really disastrous.
Because vote share doesn't necessarily translate to seats in a FPTP system. Corbyn got 40% of the vote in 2017, but Tories got 43%. Corbyn got 33% in 2019, but Tories got 44%. Starmer got 34% in 2024, but the Tories only got 24%. It's to do with how widely your vote is spread, plus there was loads of tactical voting- Labour voters voting Lib Dems to get the Tories out in the South, so Labour's share of the vote would inevitably fall. It's called politics, it's called how to win an election playing the game infront of you. People adding the Tory and Reform centre right vote to get 39% is fine, but they never then add up the centre left vote of Labour, Lib Dem and Green to get 53%. So people voted for centre left parties mostly.
Because people clubbed together (voted Tory) to keep Corbyn out. It's as relevant how many people fear you being in government as want you in government
Lets look for the upside of this defeat. I'm sure there are enough points of interest to act as a story line for a comedy of errors. Maybe we get a play, film, or better a musical, out of recent history.
Definite echoes from Braverman of One people, One realm, One leader. Absolutely deluded.
Wich pride-flag actually? The fact that that flag changed so often, is a sign that it is at least an unstable ideology, and government should only support causes wich are supported by a broad and enduring consensus.
Emily Maitlis said, talking abot JRM, “There was a real reluctance to engage with me today, which I found just very odd, very curious.”
Maybe it's because most people don't like you or your political bias.
That snarling thing has a Two Minute Hate all day.