The Conservative Party Is FINISHED For Good. Here’s Why. | Aaron meets Peter Oborne
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- The Tories are going to lose the upcoming General Election. It looks as though this loss will be their worst loss in over a century. So, how did the Conservative Party find itself in this situation? How did the so-called ‘most successful political party in the West’ lose itself?
To discuss this Aaron is joined by Peter Oborne, self-proclaimed conservative and former chief political correspondent for The Daily Telegraph.
00:00 Intro
02:36 How Did it Get so Bad for the Tories?
23:09 The Role of Strategists
28:16 Farage
38:56 Tory Heartlands Disappearing
40:53 The Media
1:00:20 Labour
1:06:42 Is This the Biggest General Election Ever?
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2019 was the the most important general election, it was when hope died and the scene was set for the far right to fill the void.
Who’s far right for ffs! And let’s face it the far left are way more dangerous historically!
What surprised me most was the poor didn't back Corbin but backed the corrupt Tory. A great advert on why the poor will remain poor. They still haven't learned and will now back Reform.
It was a clear and obvious choice between Corbyn and a wasteman. We chose the wasteman. Just unreal we’ve had 14 years of a Tory government and had chances to get rid of them along the way, but no.
Right so far***
@@nas84payne 9 years
Yeah, but the tories are just a vehicle though which wealth forces it's will on the population. The tories might go away but what caused the tories to be what they are is still right there, it will just shift it's influence to another party. And it already seems to be happening in Labour.
Good point
Exactly. The devil we don't know is waiting in the wings.
Whilst true, there is a vast difference between Labour and Conservatives in how they deal with it.
Conservative MPs are there purely to fill their boots
Lots of Labour MPs are there to do good
@@happinesstan Labour Party isn’t full of disgusting grifters like Lee Anderson, Rees Mogg, Jonathan Gullis etc etc
It might not be great but it will be better than the Tories by a long way
The wealthy were always in charge,it’s just become far more obvious lately.
The Labour Party - in it's truest, most traditional sense - died 30 years ago.
But having the legacy voters of that party still remain a threat to the nation.
Approximately when the Tory party died too.
@@FiveLiver What are you talking about?
Indeed- it died with John Smith...
@@freebornjohn2687People are going to vote in kier starmer thinking Labour is still for the working class. When it isn't. Starmers Labour is perfectly aligned with international capital according to the billionaire owner of carphone warehouse. Saying the quiet but out loud if ask me.... But as they will show us on the fourth, the British electorate are a pretty ignorant lot lol.
The Tories are not finished they live on in the Labour Party
exactly
30 pee Lee???
No
They are alive and well in Reform UK
@@JamJam0189 Yeah, thankfully they are.
We need PR asap. As much as Farage would gain from it, so would all the other smaller parties, so it's our best way to keep a party like Reform in check. Keeping to FPTP risks a merged tory x reform party taking power in 2029 or 2034. And if they take power with FPTP, we're unlikely to ever be rid of them. Not least because it will force an already tory-lite Labour to lurch ever more to the right. We need a recalibration. PR is our best chance for that.
Agreed. I like the hybrid system we gave to Scotland. Half of the seats FPTP and the other half on a proportional basis. It keeps the majority of the lunatics out so you don’t end up like the ghastly system they have in Israel where there are loads of tiny extreme parties with a handful of seats that stymie proper government.
A second chamber with more teeth would also curtail a government with a huge majority.
reform would no longer be able to hide behind never having to actually sit in parliament and the scrutiny that comes with it.
It's coming, liebour will be lucky to last a term once their in fighting starts, we're heading for a Reform government because the elites gave up on democracy
Agree that PR is the only way forward. We've done apathy, so we kn9w what happens next if.we ignore the desire to obliterate the uniparty.
I'm really torn over PR. I naturally lean towards it being a positive....but more recently I look at how European and Scandinavian countries are going, the Far Right is surging...it doesn't seem to be the bulwark against extremism that we'd hope
I'm chuffed that the Tory monster is soon to be vanquished, but I'm terrified of the monster that will win the fight to take its place. I'm also terrified that the main alternative has become a monster of its own.
So with you here. Two wrongs don't make a right. Reform will be just another form of fascism . It's a choice of being between a rock and a hard place. Rather than mouthy chancers we need compassionate people with common sense. I wish Andrew Feinstein could be PM. That is a man I trust with all his experience with apartheid in South Africa. With Starmer, Sunak and Farage we will be stuck with male peacocks strutting their stuff, talking the talk but altering nothing but creating more division in politics and society.
European ‘conservative’ parties will be replaced by others further to the right.
The people need new mechanisms to find solutions.
This Business-As-Usual-Managed-Decline-Party is squandering our possibilities and ruining the world.
LibDem would be a better opposition in this age... by far.
Indeed. Labour by embracing censorship etc. doesn’t seem like they’ll be ‘keeping out of ordinary life’ to borrow the early quote.
Britain became an oligarchy a long time ago and oligarchs abolish politics. Mr Oborne is a brilliant commentator but his comments are about 20 years out of date. Radicalized groups tend to emerge when people feel they have nowhere else to go.
Mr Oborne has no idea what is going on. Out of touch like the rest of them. In his study reading his books.
His use of " Far Right" put me right off him , He doesn't know anything about ordinary people .
@@neha7445 Yes. He seems to know a lot about a world that no longer exists.
This decline was begun by Thatcher, it just wasn’t visible for a while.
Thatcher rolled out the red carpet for fascism
before thatcher the country was bankrupt under labour.
Love her or hate her, hers was perhaps the last serious Tory government that knew what it stood for.
She sold the country to corporate wealth, as did Reagan.
With Socialist governments running up debt; home owners & small business’ will go under from crushing interest rates. We are going to see a transfer in wealth from the have nots’ to the have yachts.
If he wouldn't tell me, I'd think Peter is actually a liberal rather than Conservative. That's how far right Conservatives actually are.
Yeah seriously. The Tories of the 1940s were actually increasing public spending, just not fast enough for Labour's liking.
Or how conservatives liberals actually are
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc Can be also truth.
Liberal and conservative aren't mutually exclusive terms. You're using the mangled American folk-politics definition of liberal.
@cal9784 Really??? Help us them.
Because a podcast like this is so important to humanise a debate ( rare these days). Peter, Rory Stewart, Sayeeda Warsi. I am in line with some of their debates, looking at being far removed from the garbage we are witnessing at the moment. What would you say Peter is then?
You be careful, Aaron. Too many thoughtful pieces like this and you'll be a national treasure in 20 years. This was a truly engaging piece. Peter Oborne has always been thoughtful and it is good to have a rational right winger to challenge my naturally left leaning mindset.
I never realised he's a right winger tbb. He's pretty good on DDN whenever he's there
This guy isn't a Tory he's a liberal
@@mikedudley4062 He’s a neoliberal tory. He certainly isn't a socialist of any stripe.
@@AtheistEvehe's a liberal no sense of conservativism at All, he's bright, and knowledgeable, but it's these values that got us into this mess through the same Blair thinking.
Socialism doesn't work because there's no money to pay for it
There's a certain naivety to this type of Conservative, the world he laments was created by the exact ideology he claims to follow, which, by his own admission, was only held together by the arbitrary decency of a few individuals. He can call out the pivot to the far right all he wants, it won't change the fact that this pivot is baked within even moderate conservatism, and if the last 5 years are anything to go by, it's incredibly easy to dismantle this vague adherence to "decency and the rule of law".
100%. What the hell does he mean that the torys were “taken over”. Johnson and jacob reese mogg are both in the tory party for decades. It is strange how utterly without any firm ideology or beliefs both of them are. Whether they were always like that or if its circumstantial i don’t know. Sometimes i think peoples brains have been rotted by social media algorithms. But you’d expect elected representatives to be above that.
Agree, it's like the misty-eyed harking back to the Cameron years - forgetting how he imposed ruinous austerity, bullied the disabled, told the Windrush generation they weren't welcome here anymore and cack-handedly called a Brexit vote he was too arrogant to realise he wouldn't win.
Breaking Tories to form new party with Reform. New name CONFORM.
😂
😂😂
LOVE IT!!! LOL!!!!!!!! 🤣😂
LOL😆🤣
You wait 'til Labour gets in.
Conservative Peter Oborne and Communist Aaron Bastani talking constructively. THIS is what democracy should look like.
Back handed 'complement' 🙄
Bastani is no communist. I remember him squeeling with delight about kicking people out of Labour on trumped up charges.
@@basfinnis I dunno which people you're referring to but I'm guessing it was a while ago? He's been very against all the purging of the left for the past few years.
I call him a communist because he wrote a book called "Fully Automated Luxury Communism", and he's given talks on communism as well
Peter Oborne has no conservative views.
@@basfinnis what was that? Must have missed that one
I read a book by Obourne decades ago arguing that David Cameron set a new low for political lying. How quaint in retrospect!
Yeah, it tells you how bad things have become when you start to long for the days when Cameron was in charge because he was less shit than those that followed him.
Indeed. I look at Starmer's multiple pivots.and wince everytime he opens his mouth. Still there are some terrific memes out there which are hilarious.
Jaysus, I'm agreeing with Oborne. A decades long member of the Labour Party here. I guess you can find agreement across the shallow lines of politics. See also Rory Stewart.
Both liberals... Nothing conservative about them
@mikedudley4062 Only if you believe that conservatives are far right in which case you didn't understand the video and are the reason the Tories will cease to be.
@@drunkengamer1977 the 'far right' is a classic socialist slur to degrade any discussion.
Else I could use the same inflammatory rhetoric and just call anyone on the left a communist.
Socialism doesn't work because no one will pay for it, least of all the socialists.
The Top 10% pay 60% of the Tax, but that's already collapsing, while 55% take more from the tax payer than they contribute.... Simple maths, but economic collapse, turkey's voting for Christmas
Oborne has been pretty good on a few issues recently. He was pretty fair to Corbyn and is very pro Palestine. I obviously disagree with him on a lot of stuff but he is much better than even most of the left/libera news media at this point.
The "good conservative" gambit is hogwash, and doesn't make them somehow more perceptive. They've just realigned themselves, politically.
A fascinating interview with a man not afraid to critique and analyse the forces at play in the demise of decency in politics. Thanks!
Yes, brilliant. He absolutely gets everything he touches upon.
Best interview with anyone interested in British politics I've watched in 5 years. Outstanding.
Living here in France (where we're going through our own ructions) I find it a little ironic when people take "what's happening in France" as some kind of warning for the future. In fact, in many ways the equivalent of the French National Rally has been in government in the UK for a long time. What people like Braverman says is often harsher than the NR.
Its not a competition
We pay them enough
@@Raz2000 It's not a race to a Fascist state but the UK has been way ahead.
@@willtricks9432 A fascist state that takes almost a million immigrants a year?
I'm not a man of the right in any sense, but have never listened to Oborne without nodding furiously in agreement. His ability to join the dots is unparalleled in the political media.
Neither is Oborne.
Seems like you've swallowed the "good conservative" nonsense, to validate Oborne's bad analysis of "PoPuLiSm"
@@easytoassemble54321 Seems like nothing of the sort.
Content like this is why I support Novara Media. Superb Interview!
I agree. Downstream is consistently good in my opinion.
not so great when he set galloway up in fact it was vile !
What a gem of a discussion.
This was a really interesting interview. Peter makes a really important point about the shallowness of Starmer, and how his victory will not translate into a mandate for anything meaningful, because he has not laid out any real vision for people to vote for.
The public is going into this election to vote AGAINST the Conservatives. They’re not going in to vote FOR Labour. So Starmer may get a big majority, but it would be built on a foundation of sand.
I’ll use the example of Thatcher. You voted for her or against her. You knew what she stood for. If she won, she had a mandate and she used that mandate to enact specific policies and everyone understood this. What the heck does Starmer stand for, other than to be elected? He will say anything, backstab anyone, and lie and backslide to everyone, if he feels it would help him become PM. That’s not a mandate for anything. And he would be crushed if he goes up against anyone real.
A man of integrity and wisdom
A very good description of Nigel Farage!
@@FraserBailey-jm5yz nigel proved that during the course of Brexit.
Thank you both, such a relief to listen to a considered political conversation and analysis 👏
Conservatives or not Peter Oborne is a brilliant and fair minded man with high standards RESPECT.
Absolutely agree
Always
Not a bad chap but he worked for the Telegraph and therefore he is one of them. On the better side of one of them but still……
He helped smear Corbyn and set back hope for a kinder, fairer country.
@@AtheistEvehe has a lot of respect for Jeremy corbyn. As a journalist he has made himself perfectly clear that Jeremy corbyn was stitched up by the establishment.
The Tories are finished for good, what's happened to the Tories will be prominent in the minds of Labour if they have any sense at all. The people of Britain have woken up to being ignored, used, ripped of, one law for one class, one law for others, unaccountable civil servants, unaccountable MPs, failing legal system. It all has to end and total respect and responsibility shown to the electorate.
The liberal left socialist elite is unraveling, people are fed up on being told what to do, they know it's complete nonsense the fascist left are back and people are rebelling, they've been doing it since before Brexit and they haven't listened
Keir starmers Labour is just as bad. Nothing in this party represents true labour policies. Just another conservative party with a red tie.
But this current Labour Party _is_ a tory party.
Sadly Reform will take over and will be worse.
maybe that's where people like Oborne can have an effect? - he seems to be all about a dwindling sense of decency that's been blasted out of public life by right-wing chancers...he identified it in Corbyn and publicly endorsed him, and even voted for him.
Johnson’s was no more Tory than Blair was Labour. Both extremely cynical men, whose sense of life, success, thrill and achievement came from their venal desire to be at the apex of society, rather than serving it. Both mangled language: Blair denuded it of all meaning, practically inventing a new lexicon ( “jobs” become “opportunity pathways”, “welfare” becomes “support” - and thus immune to metrology - and state employees hired to carry-out specific functions like Citizens Aid or old-age care became “support networks” - again, we see the deliberate and ablative choice to soften, to blur…and thus, to shift responsibility and cost. Johnson, therefore was subsequently able to deploy an anti-language to counter all of this (as he might say) : guff. It was a perfectly accommodating one-two punch and is rather sad in that it echos two class-japing tropes: Blair , the working-class (hah!) champion, “Our Lad did well, don’t he talk posh now?” And Johnson, a sort of Guy Ritchie-inspired posho barrow-boy, slumming it for kicks because he wants an edgey mate who’s a brick-layer and a meth-dealer…
Opportunity pathways, support networks all bollocks. Your comment calling out the cynical manipulation of language is spot on.
Very well said squire.
Blair changed the Labour Party when he dropped Clause 4. The John Lewis Partnership did something similar when they re-invented Principle One, and the Youth Hostel Association moved away from its core values when it quietly dropped their creed. When you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything.
Very nicely put.
Tony Blur?
I keep hearing from the Tories it was all Johnson as if none of the others were corrupt.
The Tories have always been corrupt they happily went along with it some even now want him back.
Why? Because he's their best liar and to a Tory that's all that matters.
The Tories will split into different ideological strands, and flow into Reform, LibDems and Labour.
Oborne is one the best journalists around
It's a low bar .
His world view doesn't make any sense.
I don’t think so.
@@FiveLiver His world view is wrong (hes a conservative and Im a socialist so of course i think that), he still has integrity and is sincere unlike almost every other journalist in this country. I would pick Oborne over the average guardian journalist any day of the week. I can agree to disagree with Oborne on politics and still think he is one of the best journalists in this country.
Didn’t it start with Margaret Thatcher’s “no such thing as society”? Cutting the ties that bind us together…
...and erasing the common good. If there are only 'individuals and their families' which class of individual and family is that real for? A super rich one, clearly.
Thank you for inviting Peter Osborne.
Oborne
And the UK is finished too. Thank you Sunak and thank you in advance Sir Kneel Starmer.
You ignoring the contribution Farage made?
Keir Starmer will make things better
Thick equivocation
Stick to your tone deaf "I stand with Israel" posts. You're very blasé about the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, but hey, they're only Palestinians, right?
Chill out mate
I'm a Peter Oborne fan. This was excellent.
same, one of the few cons I understand / respect.
He helped smear Corbyn and thus helped put Starmer in charge of “Labour”. Are you both okay with that?
Actually thats not completly true. He was quite honest about Corbyn and decried hisctreatment by the press and Starmer..@AtheistEve
@@patcampton7163 He began decrying Corbyn’s treatment only after he had helped bring about his removal. Before then, he was smearing him. Maybe less vociferously and with liberal smarm, but smearing nonetheless.
@@patcampton7163 Oborne contrasted Starmer as “morally decent” and Corbyn as “detestable”. Talk about topsy turvey.
And I’d say that he used his so-called impartiality (merely considering Corbyn a misguided grizzled old lefty for a short while) to lend credence to his attacks about antisemitism when the election was on.
He put the boot in when it could do the most damage.
Genuinely loved this interview. It’s funny how we talk about this is replacing legacy media, but this is what legacy media once was.
For the algorithm so many more people see this. Good luck Britain from TEXAS
And good luck to Texas from Britain. We're both gonna need it comrade.
MAGA 2024
@@FiveLiver Still drooling for a Fascist Planet.
Cheers pal and I hope you fellas get it steady in the US.
Enlightening, balanced and informative. Actual journalism..
It's hardly balanced. He's ranting about 'the far right' which is utter bollocks
They can challenge Farage all they want but he will just say look at the establishment picking on me.
They will have to address the conditions which allow him to thrive.
@@stephenhill545 The condition is stupidity
Farage is the establishment. All the rich and powerful are, one way or another. They serve themselves, and only themselves.
The media attitude, To George Galloway Shows that he is deemed a threat to the establishment
A bit harsh to bring Napoleon into it..He was undeniably a great leader...
Quick reminder from the US: Republicans weren't finished after Bush Jr., they went crazier. Be prepared for the loonies, guys.
Yes, this is my fear.
Yes, it is all very dark indeed. I fear this more than anything. The world is certainly not in a good place at all, signs are all over the place. Will anyone notice before it is too late, will the electorate notice?!
Think we are at that point now.
They are here. Called Reform.
@@22pcirishNF in another name.
A man of authenticity and a fascinating dialogue. Such interactions are immensely important - they should happen across civil society if we are ever to deal with the actual issues on the ground such as climate change.
If the plane metaphor is applied to Labour that isn't looking good for the future either.
Tailspin anyone?
Ĺabour have been Tory Lite since Blair
Absolutely!
@@katej3z715 I second that.
Which therefore means we’ve has 45 years of Tories in power 🫠
No not really
Blair wasn’t Tory lite
Don't think Jeremy was a tory, weird perception of politics.
Best interview in this series. Well done.
Thank you for such a frank analysis of our politics. Right with you there.
Great Interview,Peter is always worth listening to,worrying times ahead.
Thank you both.✌
I would like the thank Mr Oborne for playing his part in getting us to this point in UK politics. His soft voice and intellect doesn’t wash with me.
He has a soft voice but its full of acid.
Why? He's been a vehement contrarian for the last twenty five years (Iraq, Cameron, Palestine, Blair), he's consistently been on the right side of history hasn't he?
@@Sa1985Mr he is a Tory. Austerity, public service run down, NHS, mental health services, housing poverty, zero hour contracts plus many many more. I’m sure the 4.3 million children in poverty care about him being on the right side of history.
The number of bots on Novara vids is encouraging, speaks to their growth
The One Nation Tories have mostly left or been pushed out, the party members supported Lizz and like Farage, so a major change is needed. Tories will lose fight among themselves move further right alienate voters and lose again in 2029, and maybe 2035, can Reform UK re-build on the right and attract MP's leaving the Tories then become official opposition in 2029? Maybe? That's millionaire Farage's aim. It happened in drama (BBC) Years and Years and the right wing populist played by Emma Thompson was funded by Russia and here politics were unworkable. If Labour fail the far-right could take control in the future!! That is a scary thought.
Years and years is hilarious actually but it gets how dead England is, right.
Was it funded by Russia.. I thought it was the shady establishment. I tend to think of Srarmer as a Rook figure.
Oborne a genuine legend. Has real integrity
If anyone is waiting for Starmer to take a principled stand on any subject then you are going have wait till doomsday.
Interesting to hear his anger when talking about how neither the Tories nor Labour have denounced Farage properly. I have no love for the Conservative party but I am concerned about whatever comes after their demise, all the decent people are gone and it's just the self serving and bigoted dregs that remain.
Johnson really should be called to account by our justice system, but he never will be, whilst most of our political mps and leaders allow money to run our politics.
Couldn’t happen to a more deserving party, their move to the right has been appalling!
The Tories have been moving to the left since they deposited Thatcher in 1990. They are now some way to the left of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. They are useless, utterly useless.
Labour likewise ,sadly , Starmer lies, his "pledges" went out the window as soon as he got the leadership ,I was going to hold my nose and vote labour like I did for Blair but Starmer's reluctance to call for Gaza ceasefire caused me cancel my party membership ,Greens get my vote this time.
SNP get my vote
There isn't a left and right any more. That's why they're finished and why Labour will be next. Their existence, not to mention their success, is entirely dependant on a redundant paradigm. If you see things in terms of left and right in 2024, you're not paying close enough attention.
@@ajd36
Nonsense
Peter Oborne it’s a rare jewel as a journalist.
I like this guy
A proper British Prime Minister minister would have denounced Farage by now, says Oborne. But there, on telly on the iTV debate was Penny Mordaunt, senior fascist, I mean Tory, telling us how much she has in common with him! She ruled out a collaboration but there it is. Conservatives are Reform-Lite. Someone on these comments said that Labour had been weak on this too. In fact, the only mention I’ve found by Labour re-Farage, was Angela Rayner retweeting Rachel Reeve, saying that candidates should be able to their jobs without fear of being pelted. To which I replied that I wish Angela and Rachel had been so vociferous about children in Gaza being pelted by Israeli bombs! It’s a terrifying state of affairs for politics.
Well said...
ThecTories and Labour are a Uniparty, what we see is Panto. Time to end it.bring back a real Parliament to the Prople. Elites out.
Such a good one this time. Love
Peter ❤
Absolutely brilliant insightful interview...I was gripped from start to finish.
The Conservative Party was doomed the moment David Cameron decided to hold a referendum on EU membership.
He did not hold a Referendum. He held an 'advisory' Referendum. This was done to take it outside of the jurisdiction of the Representation of the Peoples' Act which governs the way in which Referendums and Elections are conducted. It protects the principle of impartiality, provides sanction for misrepresentation and provides for equality of and accountabillity for funding of each side. All of this was absent from Cameron's so-called 'referendum' which became the wild West of misrepesntation, dark money and unaccountabilit y.
Re: Farages rhetoric, it gives me no pleasure to say this, especially as somebody of half British and Pakistani ethnicity, but there is a problem with integration and shared values amongst huge swathes of British Muslims. There are rare instances of harmony, my grandma, a very religious Muslim, had a gate built into her back garden fence so her and her neighbour and best friend, Mary, a staunch Catholic, can just wander in for tea with each other. Sadly, as I said, it is rare.
Bot- pretend you are a mixed monority and use a personal anecdote about harmony but make the main point be about a lack of integration. The anecdote will add to your 'authenticity'.
Ai then does its job.
@Feellikealady99 Are you quite well? I’m not sure what the obsession is with middle aged Brits thinking anyone or anything which has the audacity to make a point they don’t like is a bot, but I’m afraid to say I am indeed a human, from Coventry, I went to a school called Coundon Court, my grandma lives in an area called Radford.
I’d read Black British White British by Dilip Hiro - helps describe the immigration and assimilation issue with context and history.
Essential to avoid inadvertently demonising people
@@XYZ-td6sn ugh enough said.
@@Ruhel74 thank you for this, I’ve been looking for something good to read on the subject, I’ll have a look for it today 🙏🏼
"Trevellyan was a great civil servant" - Oborne should ask the Irish about this abhorrant man. Whose "Conservative wisdom" led to a policy that forced the Irish to emigrate in coffin ships or starve to death because of a catastrophic famine. Trevellyan's strong belief in laissez-faire economics led to the deaths of million of Irish citizens. I rest my case.
The Irish were held down by England for decades before Trevelyan though.
I've always liked Peter even when he was mainstream. He most probably got fed up with what it means to be a fair and honest mainstream journalist these days.
It isn´t the most successful in the Western world. The Swiss Radical Party is. In power since 1848, it has simply extended its coalition since a referendum it opposed imposed proportional representation on it in 1918. The Canadian Liberal Party has also been much more successful in terms of the percentage of time it has been in power. Likewise the Japanese Liberal Democratic Party. Kindly do a proper comprehensive comparative analysis.
Swedish Democrats?
@@stevenwilliamson6236 No, they're very recent. Swedish Social Democrats have been historically dominant there.
Incredible interview.
One thing that played on my mind about the failures of the guardian over the past decade or so stems from the memory of their offices being raided during the wikileaks coverage. Almost overnight there seemed to be an obvious change in the way they conducted business with far more of a leaning to the establishment and a timidity in holding powerful forces to account. The rot of neoliberalism spread quickly through it's coverage, I perceived far more platforming of rightwing ideas and obvious spin... I wonder what really went down in those raids, if indeed they are the nexus point I attribute them to being.
New Statesman has followed the same path under Jason Cowley, my family had a subscription to them for 20+ years but its increasingly TERF standpoint and a 5 page hagiography of Suella Braverman were the final straws.
Remember people said the Tories were finished in 1997 and 13 years later they were the government...
True, but this is a different situation.
At that point, they still had a party that involved multiple groups. Johnson kicked out a lot of moderates.
The Conservative Party might get in again, but Oborne's point is they won't be the same party. They're going to be extremely right-wing.
@@vis7139 To me they've got sleds been extremely right wing but did a better job at hiding it than they do now. They saw the tide turning and not longer needed to keep the facade going. They didn't get the name "the nasty party" for nothing.
Take away the 2019 election and they had two minority governments and a small majority.
I remember endless articles in the Grauniad et al confidently confirming that they could never form a majority government again as recently as 2016. They can and probably will come back.
This time they have Reform to contend with offering conservative policies.
Telling how he cannot name a single "ordinary" job.
Farage over the target. Never seen vitriol against him like this. It's coming from the left and right.
He stands for working class people, they hate working class people. The liberals are showing their true colours. It's not really aimed at Farage, they are angry with us for not listening to them and obeying.
he lies. Remeber?
He's utterly vile
Yes and yet devoid of any specific criticism as usual. He's a "bigot", "bordering on white supremacy"...
Claims without substance as usual.
And all this hatred, just for suggesting net migration of 750,000 a year is too high.
Has Peter got a good word to say a good word to say about any politician?
Zero Tory seats this time. Zero Labour seats next time
The process has a technical term and called "deallignment" but, very broadly, the British public are slowly realising that the 2 major political parties won't represent them so will coalesce under new ones that will. What both sides agree on is that the mushy consensus establishment elite, the "good chaps" championed by Peter Oborne, doesn't speak for them.
How?
@@willtricks9432 The usual way.
We might well something close to it for the Tories this election.
Labour has got to go the same way but it will be a long time until the next opportunity.
However, Labour will make such a hash of things in that period, there is a good chance people will have woken up to them as well
If the tory party ceases to exist it will not be because they failed, but because they have succeeded and their work is done and faces no risk of being undone.
The future of British politics is in a dire state whatever colours are supported.
Islam will fix it and GB is going to become islamic under labour.
This is what we in the USA thought about the Republican Party in 2008. Like Jason from Friday the 13th, they always come back for the sequel.
There are some remarkable parallels with American politics. Also, Britain and America seem to go through major polical turns at similar times.
The Conservative Party leaders (candidates) are chosen by donors (and those in their pockets). Then voted for by limited party members. How can the honest and the talented rise to the top? It is a rotten model.
Peter oborne is the only honest decent man in all of the current political spectrum. His analysis is top form, if only we had a political leader like him.
He hates working class people, typical liberal.
He smeared Corbyn along with the rest of them.
The Tories represent the interest of billions. Billions of pounds, that is. Trust me, they will be back.
And what interests does the current Labour represent?
Rupert Murdoch
Then again, if the present Tory Party is wiped out, the what is to stop all the remaining right wing nuts from retreating into Farage's outfit - ready to reform the Tory Party onto a Fascist lite outfit? For does anyone really believe that the Reform Party is a going concern - with long-term future?
@@user-wj7cv9hb5j I'm not sure if this is a really poor trolling attempt or you're really that brainwashed
@@Pipic9 It's a bit of both.
The more I hear from these old tories here on Novara, the more I respect them. Not that they change my mind or make me want to vote for them, but I feel like our differences are philosophical but driven by the same impulse - the desire to create a better future. We would differ on how and on the assumptions that would underly our positions, but I wouldn't doubt their sincerity.
Whereas the new lot I absolutely do doubt their sincerity - they're out for themselves and their rich mates and to hear people like Oborne and Hitchens saying so is really quite astounding.
I don't think Rory Stewart is 'overwhelmed' by Alistair Campbell at all. Rather than view him through such a lens, I believe the two, together, make an intriguing connection of what is possible when the narrative is not subverted by blindness to a single ideology.
I agree with that.
"the most successful political organization in the western world, ever"
THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
This guy seems to be proposing that there was a time in history when the Tories didn’t prioritise looking after the wealthy over the common good 😂😂😂
One nation conservatism.
Sure it's never as empathetic as socialist ideals. But it does have a philosophy of trying to create opportunity. The current Tories really are about the super rich.
Q: If Keir Starmer & Associates are the New Tories, what difference does it make if the Tories are finished? A: Well ... erm ... yes.
They aren’t the new Tories.
@@RobinHarris-nf4yv They just walk the same walk to the same place for the same owner?
All their Labour policies have been dumped & Starmer is only left with Tory policies, Labour is now centre right!
@@user-xd7dk3oy3q that’s a complete lie.
Here are Labour policies which are left wing:
Collective wage bargaining
End fire rehire
End zero hour contracts
Repeal anti union laws
End non doms status
End VAT free private school fees
Rebuild relationship with EU
Nationalise train operators
State owned British energy
Give more power to regions
More grants to nurses and drs
More teachers
Windfall tax on energy producers
Free breakfast clubs
Higher min wage for carers
@@frederickj.hawkins522 if you think Conservative and Labour are the same you are clueless.
This is an interesting, illuminating, and intelligent political interview. Such a pity the Tories and Labour are campaigning as if we are all halfwits.
Given the Tories were voted in for 15 years and there are still some that defend this government... there are plenty of halfwits that are allowed a vote.
If you look at the outcome of the Brcxit vote, they may well have a point.
Indeed. The outcome of brexit and voting for Boris show just how half witted our nation is.
Peter was spot on with Johnson being a POS. The Tories are all the same the Gauks, Clarkes still hammered the weakest in society.
But what are Tories? Pro-capital. That is alive and well in the Liebour party
So you support the British Communist Party then?
Being pro capital is alive and well in every left wing country such as Denmark, Sweden, Norway, France etc etc.
Liebour! ho ho never read that before. Full marks for originality. How about this one, Tony Blair, get it?
@@jackn4853 Tony B Liar heard that one ☝️?
Tony Blair MP --> I'm Tory Plan B
If the Labour Party get elected into government in 2024, I predict one of the shortest political honeymoons in living memory.
It's not YOUR Britain Oborne, it belongs to the people of Britain.
The Americanization of British politics
Normally enjoy Peter Oborn, a voice of reason, but he's simply wrong here.
We and others in Europe live in democracies, albeit noticably flawed and somewhat performative ones, and going around denouncing or even going so far as to ban those with whom you disagree is a mighty dangerous path to be going down.
We are far too fond of railing at symptoms rather than addressing causes.
Sunak's otherwise pointless denouncing of George Galloway outside no 10 aside ( which looked like a speech as a precursor to removing Galloway, always made me wonder if he had chickened out )?
I think that Starmer doesn't want to say anything about Farage because the damage that he's doing to the tories.
How do you square the politics of Conservatives of color in very senior positions in the party (Clerverly, Badenok, Patel, Braverman, Sunak etc) with the drift to the far right and the idea of replacement theory?
Stating that it's been 'the most successful political party of the last 200 years' isn't necessarily an endorsement. The degree of cumulative damage, and the number of wasted opportunities for social progress within the UK, has been appalling. It isn't just the Conservative Party itself, it's the right-wing world view in general. Whereas the Left observes and analyses the frailties in human nature, and seeks to create conditions to ameliorate them (education reforms, healthcare, subsidised housing, employment opportunities, social security, etc), the Right will always seek the means to exploit them for political gain, by promoting envy, fear, resentment, and insecurity, before harnessing the support it then garners to serve its own purposes.
Rishi Sunak Prime Minister without election undemocratic 👇
Can we send Rishi Sunak to Rwanda?
@@boembo6627 He will exile himself to the USA.
Trump would agree.
Rishi sunak/ lizz truss/ Gordon brown.
@@davidpearn5925🤮🤮🤮
I have watched several commentaries from Peter Oborne about varying subjects. Despite differences in our political views at times, he is always right on the money and this video is no exception. Cheers Novara, quality journalism as always.
About 16 mins in there is an explanation of how and when Johnson doomed the Conservative party to destruction. And parallels are drawn again between him and Starmer and the Labour party. Which prompts Bastani to acknowledge and comment. But he prefaces his comment with 'I am not suggesting for a moment that Labour are heading for these kind of polling numbers...' How can he not see that is exactly what is going to happen? Just as it happened to Johnson?
If they hadn't tripled migration, the Conservatives would not be facing annihilation. This is a consequence of Brexit: governments can't blame insanely high migration on the EU and the Conservatives will therefore pay the price for their utter betrayal. I look forward to Labour receiving much the same treatment when they inevitably triple-down...
In the post oil climate impact economy the Tories are going to struggle to feed off the remainder of what's left, unlike the past 200 years bathing in it and then eating raw coal for pudding.
I heard that in 1997, the only way for this to become a reality is voting reform
Fascism coming in through the back door with Farage. Not a thing for Britain.
Labour are an equal monstrosity, and so are most other contenders. Politics is dead to me. We need something else.