I want to support Lucy, but... to be honest ... those kids were so forgettable. They didn't stand out at all, while most every "Lucy" fan (myself included) would have loved to see Doris. We KNEW she had the stuff to elevate the show.
newagetojo Ironically the same thing could be said for her kids. Sorry to be sounding harsh... I could go on, but their lives are fine as people now.. it’s not fine to compare a longtime experienced working actress in your post, a comedienne working with the best , to two ( at the time) teenagers who happened to be Lucy’s children. Not fair to them as well.
I am in the middle of watching all the Here's Lucys on tubitv. I really think Desi Jr. was very talented, especially his musical ability, though I never understood why they didn't play up his sex appeal, the way David Cassidy was being played up on the Partridge Family. Desi's sexiest episode was the one he did when he performed with Ann-Margret (the "Country Magic" song). There should have been more episodes like that. And Lucie's talent really grew as the series progressed and you can see why she went on to doing live stage work and musicals after Here's Lucy went off the air. I always believed that Lucy needed either a husband or steady boyfriend on both The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy. And yes if Viv wasn't available Doris would have made a good best friend besides Mary Jane Croft. I never really warmed up to Vanda Barra who appeared fairly regularly on Here's Lucy.
I think Lucy was good in her time, different, fresh. But quite honestly I don't think she was a really funny person. I don't think she had a natural sense of humor that many comedians do. I don't think she could write her own funny lines like, say, a standup comedian does. I also think she actually became a worse actress as she got older, which is odd. One of her last dramatic roles was in the 1980's called "The Stone Pillow". It was a terrible made for TV movie. Could not sit through it.
@@marjoriemargel1567 What? They couldn't act worth beans. I'm sure they knew it themselves, the entire time. They weren't TRYING to be good, they weren't trying to be actors. They were getting their paychecks, and that's what counted. I truly doubt that any of their self-worth is tied up in their acting talent, they probably laugh about it. Why would they be offended? They did other things with their lives.
I understand and appreciate Lucy looking out for her children by trying to give them a break and help them get into show business, but to the expense of others. If Doris Singleton was promised a role in the show, she should have have had her contract honored. My guess is that if contracts were signed, they had to buy out her contract, so at least Ms. Singleton got her money. On the other hand, I think that Lucy should have let her know ahead of time what was going on.
My husband worked with Lucy and Desi many times Ashe was a character actor, I heard many stories of Lucy from him. She was very serious almost a task master! She was a genius at knowing what would work and the business side too! A chain smoker that had 4 cigarets going on sound stage at once, so she could grab a smoke any area of the set. Not warm and fuzzy at all! But if she liked you, you got more gigs with her! My hubby was20+ years older than I so his stories were golden about Clark Gable and the big stars, I miss his stories!
I’m a diehard Lucy fan and always will be, but from what I know about her, which is extensive, she became an increasingly bitter and sad woman as she aged. I don’t believe she had much happiness in her life at all, especially after “I Love Lucy,” and she lived a lonely, isolated existence, like we see Ellen living now. I know someone who was married to a Sardi’s bartender and he said she was an absolute horror to deal with. Read Lee Tannen’s book on Lucy. You’ll see how truly sad she was in her final decade, and also that beneath it all, she really did love and appreciate her true fans, and feel things deeply. I’m glad she at least had a friend like Lee to make her happy and give her some respite from her demons - and she nearly ruined that friendship, too. I believe this story about Doris completely. Doris Singleton was a talented woman of remarkable class, and Lucy was lucky to have her.
I think your assessment is 100% correct. She changed completely after the divorce. She became bitter and bitter. I think the only time she was happier was when she was filming Mine, yours & ours. Anyways, she became bitter and angry that things turned out the way they did with Desi. She never recovered from that blow.
@@usforsarahYes, you’re right to mention the divorce - I think she saw it as a personal and public failure, deeply resented Desi (rightly so) and kept on loving him all the while. Talk about mixed emotions! And she was doing all this while venturing to places no woman had ever gone before in her industry. All she really needed was one man to be strong and faithful, to give her what no one else could, but she ultimately didn’t have that - she had to go it on her own and be strong for herself. Gary Morton may have been a kind man and a good companion, but he was certainly not able to protect Lucy - the little advice he did give her was self-serving, dreadful and even devastating, in fact. He was no Desi. How could he be?
@@rudypalma1250 I agree. I don't like Gary, he was an opportunist imo. From what I've read Vivian didn't like him and Lucie wasn't his biggest fan... I think Lucy was aware of it, but she didn't mind being his sugar mommy as long as he didn't cheat. There's one episode of Password and she sort of takes a dig at Gary "all he cares about is golf". His appearance on The Lucy Show wasn't good (I don't think the audience was very fond of him), and I know Lucy initially started doing her podcast in the 60's so he could have an occupation and be the producer.... needless to say he failed and her cousin ended up producing it. What a stooge.
Had Doris Singleton been in the show it certainly would have added more to the show. (I always enjoyed it when she appeared on I Love Lucy.) I don't know about everyone else Rick but I can't even watch Here's Lucy. Most of the plots I find flat and not very funny. But at the time people really did love Lucy and wanted to see her. It's too bad her comedy didn't evolve so her later shows could have achieved the same greatness as I Love Lucy.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who found her post I Love Lucy show unfunny and even at times embarrassing. It's not humorous to see a woman in her 50s and 60s portray a 12 year old emotionally complete with pratfalls. No her character did not evolve/ grow beyond her Lucy Ricardo period
The trouble with most of these people is that they begin to believe their own PR. Arrogant, self-centered, and never the 'generous' star they are often portrayed as in the press.
Very unprofessional of Lucille Ball. Desi Arnaz Jr. had gotten a girl pregnant when he was 15 allegedly so maybe she felt this was the only way she could keep the kids out of more trouble.
First off, I loved Lucie and Desi, Jr in the show, but I also loved Doris Singleton in I Love Lucy. She was one of those characters that you liked to dislike. I can definitely understand why Lucy would want to showcase her two children, but it is a shame that she couldn't have handled Doris more courteously and appropriately. Great Info Rick. Thank you.
@newagetojo You cannot say to what degree her co-stars Fred and Ethel had a career or would have had a career. William Frawley had been in Vaudeville long before I Love Lucy. Good Lord, that guy was old when he did that show so you don't know what type of career he had or really what was considered successful in that day and age. In his later years, after Lucy, William Frawley went on to play on My Three Sons until his death. I am not meaning to be a cheerleader for Frawley. I am just pointing out that this was so long ago, you really do not know the success level of Vivian Vance or what would have become of her or any of them. As far as Desi, it was Lucy who always said he was the brains of the business, not the actor so much.
Of course, but we don't really know what happened. This video is one version, perhaps based on Mrs. Singleton's side of the story. Maybe other insiders would remember things a little differently.
All I know is that I once had a great friend -- at least I thought I did. We knew each other for years, worked together for years, retired the same year. Then, she dumped me -- no explanation, nothing. This just goes to show you don't really know your so-called best friend.
Thats normal with any business. Healthcare seems great but there is so much politics. Finance, real estate, restaurant businesses is cutthroat. Politics is politics. Its in every career, you just gotta have thick skin. That comes with experience
@@lazyhomebody1356 yes. This is true.. She was tough in business.. But fair.. And whether unintentional or not... Who comes between a "mother" and her children without suffering the consequences??
I have read several books on Lucie & Desi, including their autobios. Lucy was not at all like the character she portrayed on I Love Lucy. She was a tough lady & her insecurities became worse after she & Desi were divorced. She was a work-a-holic & not nice to people. She wanted everything done her way. The only one she trusted & listened to was Desi. Even after their divorce, she would ask him for his advice. But, even to close friends & family, she could be cold. Her other two shows were never as good as I Love Lucy.
I'll preface this by saying that I've always been a big fan of Lucille Ball; I've loved her work on TV and in movies. But for as brilliant a comedienne and actress as she was, I've heard a great many stories about how difficult she could be and that she was often extremely rude and very unkind--to people both in and out of the business.
I'd take that with a grain of salt. Today, assertive women are still called b!tches. I can only imagine how badly her position of power would rankle the nerves of so many people. She was famously UNFUNNY off stage, I've read that a million times.
I think she was very direct or even blunt. Even when she gave compliments, she got to the point. When Mary Tyler Moore was rehearsing a scene as Laura Petrie at Desilu, Lucy turned to her as she was leaving and said, "You're very good." Mary said later,"Not a lot of flowers" to it, but she was thrilled that Lucy liked her work.
@@barbraseville8984 And she hated running the studio. She wanted to perform. She kind of got stuck doing it after Desi was out of the picture. But she felt an obligation to the employees.
I have heard that Lucille Ball was always very gracious and giving to her fans. Also, someone who is supposedly so rude - she had people from her days in radio (Gale Gordon - her writers Madelyn Pugh, Bob Caroll Jr. etc etc. who knew her for decades kept working for her.) Also, people like her personal female attendant who traveled all around with her and was with her for decades too, as well and drivers and handyman. Day in and day out exposure - yet never had a bad word to say about her. Also, the story about Sammy Davis is awful. Also, after his appearance on The Lucy show, he gave an introduction talk when she was given an award - absolutely lovely and laudatory, starting with, "The sun never sets on Lucille Ball" Why would anybody who had such distaste for her have done that?
It seems that such a strong women would have been more upfront. I once worked for a female business owner that did similar to me. goes to show, even the strongest people have their major weaknesses
The Lucy shows after "I love Lucy" were, in my opinion, unfunny. Lucy was too old to play the same scatterbrained character that worked so well in the black and white early episodes. Her children were not a good addition either.
4 года назад+6
That's what happened to many stars that tried to hang on. It was quite evident that they didn't have it anymore, and their claim to fame was long gone. And, they embarrassed themselves something awful to prove it.
You are entitled to your opinion but Lucy was on the air for years and that was due to her popularity. The shows actually did really well maybe not as funny as I LOVE LUCY but I would watch them just because of Lucy. I did miss the chemistry they all had on I love Lucy! The cast was fantastic.
Not to mention they recycled many of the comical bits from I love Lucy....the physical comedy looked particularly dangerous for a older lucy as well...
@@MrMd217 You just kind of made that poster's point. The show was second rate and it was only because of Lucy's past, when she was younger, fresh, times in the nation were different, when she was at her peak that she was watched. It was because of a memory of a once good, fresh show, not the one you were watching with an older, sad actress who tried to hang on. There was a sad story Lucy told in an interview once. She was in an elevator and a young adult got in. They started talking and the young woman asked "What do you do?" Her answer was."I used to be on TV."
Well, if you notice on the 1962 Lucy Show, the three kids (Ralph Hart, Candy Moore and Jimmy Garrett) had prominent roles during the first season but then they were drastically reduced during the 2nd and 3rd seasons and they were then written out of the series completely. Lucy was happy when her favorite, Gale Gordon joined the cast at the beginning of Season 2. When Viv left after Season 3, she added Mary Jane Croft as a regular character. I think 2 of the kids are STILL annoyed about being let go because they were NOT interviewed for the Lucy Show DVDs, but Jimmy Garrett was.
rtususian I read that Candy Moore had stated that Lucille Ball actually was afraid of Candy’s stardom. She extremely popular with younger viewers and Lucille felt that it was taking away the focus from her. Also, Vivian Vance was tired of commuting from Connecticut to do the show, and wanted to reduce her time the show or even quit. This all came ahead at the end of third season when Vivian decided to retire from the series and this enabled Lucille revamp the series by the having the character of “Viv” remarry. The boys go off the military school and “Chris” enter college and her character relocate to California.
John Michael Gunner my FAVE episode with Mary Jane Croft was the return from Europe one. She’s sitting next to Lucy on the plane. Lucy’s “baby” is a big hunk of cheese. Lol.
@@eduardoramirezjr4403 It's funny, on the Lucy Show Candy Moore was considered one of the main steady characters, but a lot of the time her storylines and dialogue were kind of brief. But on the Donna Reed Show, where she was only an occasional actor, she played Jeff's girlfriend, it seems that she had a lot more to do in each of the episodes she was in. She wasn't in every episode, mind you, but the ones she was in she had a lot more dialogue than any of the Lucy Shows she was in. That was one of the things I didn't like about the Lucy Show, every single episode had to focus on Lucy instead of giving some of the other characters a main story.
Sammy Davis describes how he once worked with Lucy a couple of months after he lost his eye so he was wearing a prosthetic one .During one scene he describes how she kept trying to poke the eye out with a stick as a joke, of course Sammy didn't think it was funny at all.Her ex Desi Arnez described her as being cruel at times
Well, I think a lot of people would disagree because the first 2 seasons of The Lucy Show (1962-64) were mostly written by her original writers, Bob Carroll Jr. and Madelyn Martin/Pugh/Davis. After they left at the end of Season 2, the writing did kind of go downhill and the situations more forced and too far-fetched. And her show became more of a sketch comedy show which is not the right format for Lucy in my opinion.
Lucy was extremely loyal to family. Her father died when she was, I believe, 4 and her grandfather lost the farm due to unfortunate accident. She vowed that she would take care of her family, but she took care of close personal friends as well. On the other hand, she could be fierce, being a woman in an executive capacity. She expected Lucy and Desi, jr to be able to support themselves without her influence. This was the way of life in California.
I think Lucille Ball would be rather difficult to get along with on a personal and professional level and she probably would not consider people's feelings to much extent in her decisions and actions. I also agree with Martin's post about the Here's Lucy and I would add the Lucy Show. I found them boring and it was awkward to watch her try to carry the entire comedic weight herself without Desi and the others from I Love Lucy.
After the divorce from Desi, Lucy became a bitter miserable person!!.. Just ask any flight attendant to ever had the unfortunate task of having her on their flight!!.. In today's terms we would would refer to her as a "KAREN"!!!
I don’t know that I believe Doris’s story. Signed contracts and she was legally committed? That means that the show was legally committed back to her too. Contracts work two ways and obligations flow in both directions. I cannot imagine what kind of a contact would exist that over time she suddenly realized she’s not on the show. What was in the contract?
Well, this happens from time to time. "We decided to go in a different direction" happens. Not saying it was right or wrong but look at Doris Day. She had a show for 5 seasons, all high in the ratings. Denver Pyle was in the first 2 seasons as her farmer dad, but then the focus moved to Doris as a city worker with the great Rose Marie as her friend for Seasons 2 and 3. Then, Doris called Rose and told her "moving in a new direction, want to keep the show fresh" so Rose Marie was out as her friend, and Jackie Joseph was in for the last 2 seasons. Also, McLean Stevenson was her boss in seasons 2 and 3, then he was out and John Dehner was her boss for seasons 4 and 5. In Show Biz an actor has to have a thick skin from what I've seen.
Yeah, the format of The Doris Day Show changed every flipping season. Once the Mary Tyler Moore Show became popular, Doris's show followed suit and became more urbane and sophisticated.
Outside of Fran Ryan who played Ms. Days housekeeper part of the first year of the program I have heard of any bad blood between Ms. Day and any of her many co stars .
Here is another situation where people love Doris Day. I always loved the format of her living in San Francisco with her son's and the father still apart of her life. The support cast was great too. Why change it? Season 4 and 5 not so good.
The Superman episode in I Love Lucy was one of my favorites as well. Its unfortunate that Doris Singleton didnt work out. Even if she wasnt a good fit I think it was a bit shady the way she was dropped with no initial explanation.
I do remember Doris Singleton on an episode of All in the Family when Edith was on Jury Duty. Doris played a wealthy juror who snubbed her nose at Edith. I wonder if she took the part to spite Lucille Ball who hated All in the Family
Oh God Jerry, I never knew that! Maybe Doris did in part for that reason. I do know that (early) All in the Family episode was one of THE best of the entire series because of Doris, and her interaction with Jean Stapleton. She really had star billing in that episode. She was also a beautiful woman and today when I watch that episode I like the contrast of seeing her in both the '50s and the '70s.
I remember that episode of "All in the Family". Doris Singleton was also in two different episodes of "The Dick Van Dyke" show (my favorite line she says to her son as they're leaving the Petrie house: "What's the MATTER with you, getting chocolate all over Mr. Petrie!") I think she was also in an episode of "Hazel". I love watching reruns of old TV shows and have seen her now and then in some of them.
It’s never an easy conversation to tell someone some bad news, but as a friend, she should’ve told her. Maybe she was concerned about how it would effect their friendship, but I think she made things worse by not telling her.
She could of made Doris’s role different and given her a part as well as her kids. Been fair to a friend and fellow actor. A meeting would of been appreciated to explain the different roles. She could of asked Doris to help her kids with learning the trade. Very sad.
Neither of the kids went on to do anything. Such a shame for Doris Singleton, she was a great actor and probably needed the work (and money) that the kids would never need.
The kids never went on to do anything??? Are you serious? Desi Jr. worked for years in movies and TV long after his time on "Here's Lucy" -- many movies and TV movies, and starring in the cult TV series, "Automan." After years of showbiz pressure that led him into addiction problems, he finally conquered his demons and got the hell outta Dodge in order to live a peaceful life, along with his beloved wife, far away from the L.A. parties and the relentless tabloid spotlight. They were married for three decades, until her unfortunate loss to cancer a couple years ago. And Lucie pursued a long career on stage, which is what she wanted to do. She has spent the better part of her career on Broadway, London's West End, and most recently touring the United States in "Pippin" a couple years ago, as Berthe. She has also had a successful career as a cabaret singer, and most important to her, as a devoted wife and mother (she's been married to Laurence Luckinbill for 40 years). I was planning to see Lucie's one-woman show in Los Angeles in March but I couldn't get a ticket because the show was SOLD OUT. I thought I would have no problem purchasing a ticket a full month in advance, but no, tickets to her show were ALL GONE. She has a following. But then coronavirus happened anyway and shut everything down. Since her "Here's Lucy" days, Lucie Arnaz has won or been nominated for a number of awards for her stage work, and also won an Emmy Award as a producer.
There's a long, ignoble history of "nepo" babies, and this is just one example. In the U.S especially, movies, TV, music, and politics are filled to the brim with them.
Very interesting video Rick. I remember her character and always wondered what happened to her. Thank you for sharing. I hope Falco is on the men. Have a great day. Blessings - Judith
This may sound sexist but Lucy needed a husband on The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy. She needed someone to have to answer to, a banker who is unrelated to you (despite Uncle Harry being Lucy's brother-in-law on Here's Lucy), is not the same as a husband. It started to get ridiculous when Lucy would screw things up for Mr. Mooney yet he always was asking her for a favor, or to do something for him, and when he actually hired her to work directly under him, I always asked myself, why the hell would he want her to be around him all the time if she's such a screw-up?? Didn't make sense. Gomer Pyle annoying Sgt. Carter all the time was different because they really didn't have much of a choice about working together, they were in the military.
Her kids were average actors, but they did not have the comedic flair that their mom did. It's funny how in The Lucy Show, she had kids other than her own play her kids and also had Vivian Vance come back to play opposite of her. Gale Gordon was good, but I'm glad he was never picked for Fred Mertz.
If Doris Singleton had a signed contract that actually itemized how many lines she'd get and/or how many episodes she's be in, then she should've brought that to Desilu's attention. I've seen many interviews with Lucille Ball where she stated that she liked to work with "pros" only -- that little trick that Lucy pulled doesn't sound very professional to me. I don't care WHOSE kids they are! They shouldn't get top billing over a seasoned actress like Ms Singleton. Lucy should be ashamed smh....
It is sad to hear of Lucy’s life being so intense all the time. She really copped it from everyone. Despite this she rose. I loved everything she did creatively. Often it’s hard to get the balance right. I feel the balance was more in her favour. She’s only one person. She did pretty good! She’s absolutely unforgettable.
Lucy should have said something up front. I am sure she felt awkward about saying we are going with my kids instead of you, but it still should have been said. Oh well, Lucy was just as human as any of us.
If Lucy had struck a deal with Doris to appear as a regular recurring member of the cast on Here's Lucy and contracts were signed. Then I think it was wrong for Lucy to not tell Doris that she'd changed her mind. It does not surprise me and I believe Doris when she says the reason for being cut out was to benefit Lucie and Desi Jr.
It is well known that Ms. Ball was difficult to work with. Vivian Vance had to maintain a higher weight to make her look older (Vance was actually younger than Lucy). It is true that as the various shows continued, each got worse. She never could recreate the chemistry from I Love Lucy.
Viv was two years older than Lucy. Viv was born in 1909, Lucy in 1911. Incidentally, Gale Gordon was born in 1908 and Desi Sr in 1917. And I was born in 1961. LOL
No it was not in her contract that was a running joke that Vivian who was 2 years older had to maintain a certain weight. Also please remember that Vance was passive aggressive and she was the one who constantly complained that she had to be married to "that old man". Btw Wm Frawley was hired first so why did she take the part. Her statements about Frawley she let be known loud and clear - thus setting up the animosity between them. Vivian Vance was married 4x, 3rd marriage was abusive and Lucy helped her thru it, and her 4th marriage which lasted the longest, her husband was a homosexual.
Very good video 👍😊 it is very interesting to learn more about these classic television shows and learn about the history surrounding them I think Lucy could have been more upfront about it though thanks for a great video
This doesn't surprise me. I've heard what a difficult person Lucille Ball was. And her shows after "I Love Lucy" were never all that successful. People wanted to see Lucy and Desi (Ricky) much more than they wanted to see just Lucy. That was the elephant in the room, as Lucy soldiered on alone. Her shows attracted gradually less and less of an audience as time went on. I was a huge "I Love Lucy" fan. I never watched Lucy's subsequent shows because I wanted to remember the show at its best.
She should have kept Doris and ditched her children... they were terrible actors and had zero screen presence... Even though the show lasted 6 seasons, it was awful... mostly because of the horrible writing, but the children added NOTHING!!!
Wow! I never knew this story. But as already commented by other viewers, what was in her (Singleton) contract? She had to have one. But, regardless, Lucy should have had a meeting with Ms Singleton to break the news. So sad. I know what it's like to be 'dumped' by a so-called best friend.
Ridiculous. Nepotism is always bad be it the movies, music, sports,modeling,etc. I've seen too many people pushed into these things where they'll never be on their parent(s)level no matter what. The Arnez children, Katie Austin, Sailor Brinkley(Christie Brinkley daughter), Chloe Olsen(Kathy Ireland daughter), Charlotte Flair(Ric Flair), Curtis Axel( Mr Perfect wrestler), Kaia Jordan Gerber (Cindy Crawford daughter), they all weren't/never be on their parents level. Most, if not, all of them, were pushed into these professions by their folks eager to recreate themselves through their kids which is a wrong and dumb approach to life.
As a wrestling fan I would argue that Charlotte is well on her way to carving out a place in history as one of the best and most decorated female wrestlers - there's no surpassing her dad of course, but she is definitely living up to her name
The parents should encourage other fields they can be successful in. When you have a parent that "big" in a certain arena, those are big shoes to fill. They should encourage their children's other interests to forge their own successful path.
I am surprised that Lucy would go back on an offer to a valued colleague like Doris; especially if legal contracts were signed did Doris get compensated? From interviews of have seen, Doris never said anything about this and Lucy said she brought her children on to keep tabs on them; Desi Jr. did have a bit of his father in him.
They acted like they didn’t want to be there at all. Today, Lucie still appears in stage shows, and she not a bad singer and dancer, but people remember her Mom much more
Once people get a little recognition they tend to forget about others. It's a shame Doris was handled that way. I enjoyed her in all the Lucy shows. I hope she was able to continue in show business.
That's what I was just commenting to another person about the money went to her head she divorce Desi Arnaz showed she can be her own boss and just let it go to her head and started treating other people like crap and I think it was just wrong I seen her in a different light as I got older😔
Lucy was famous for being the worst airline passenger in the history of the industry! She was horribly abusive to the crews and ground personnel.. It was back when United was about the only airline that served Hawaii and Lucy flew back and forth often. The United crews and other employees were in such revolt that finally United banned her from traveling on their airline for life! The way a people treat underlings and servants always reveals their real characters.
BTW if you remember when The Lucy Show started in 1962 Gale Gordon was not on it as bank president Mooney. The great Charles Lane played her boss, Mr. Barnsdahl. He had done several I Love Lucy episodes. Gordon was unavailable in 1962 due to he was playing Mr. Wilson on Dennis the Menace, which ended it's run in 1963, he became available and Charles Lane was out. Lane never held a grudge as Lucille Ball cast him in several other shows.
@@MissysAngels It also was just part of any actors insecurity. You never know when a actor becomes a hit with the fans and network...I feel that’s what she was thinking......
Contracts were signed, so Doris was probably still getting paid, but I am sure she wanted the on camera exposure also. Lucy was the boss, so it was her call to make. To somewhat quote a line from "The Godfather", "It's not personal Doris, it's strictly business". Common courtesy would have been to let Doris know things had changed and that she would still be getting paid and was free to pursue other opportunities.
I've always heard that Lucille Ball was difficult to work with. I think Doris Singleton was better off, even though that was a crappy way of letting her go! Typical Lucy.
Doris should have known how show business works. One day you're on top, the next day you're waiting by the phone. It happens all the time - don't blame Lucy!
Lucy was not a fan of Patty Duke, she much preferred Desi dated someone like Liza Minnelli, in fact Lucy said in interviews she knew Liza before she even had her own children.
Unfortunately, for many years in the business I heard that Doris Singleton was kind of bitchy like some of her characters in various shows, that just like Joan Collins, her real life persona was very much the same as those characters. Somehow, I believe it!
@@johnlewinski6359 you can't even read an article about someone else and then throw Trump in it hey guess what Trump is going to be your president in 2020 haha
One of the most brilliant comedians of all time. That being said, it is no secret the Lucy was a very difficult and even at times cruel person to work with or be around.
Sorry to learn Doris' role had been eliminated from the show. I always felt she added so much so every scene she was in from the "I Love Lucy" days. I wonder if Lucille Ball ever regretted this decision.
That's just not right. I've been in business for myself and a few times I took a financial loss in order to "keep my word" and "reputation" as a reliable, credible person. I have always had a real disdain for "nepotism". I dealt with it when I worked for "other people" before I went solo. Let her stupid kids find their own way instead of "turning" on an old reliable friend. I just can't stand "bosses sons". From my all too numerous experiences they are lazy, opinionated without facts or experience, pushy because they know they can't be fired and generally obnoxious clowns.
I felt the same way about my bosses' wives. They always came to the office and acted like they were just as much our boss as their husbands were. I couldn't stand any of them.
I really liked both Doris Singleton and Mary Jane Croft as Lucy's sidekicks and would have loved to seen more of them. Lucy's kids, though, were actually very likable in the show. Too bad they couldn't make room for EVERY body!
I remember Dick Cavett commented to Lucille Ball, due to her position as Head of Desilu, that she must have to fire people. He asked like it was a status position. She got very quiet and said, if she had to let somebody go, she fretted and often cried over it, that it was always something difficult for her to do.
Rick, it is simply NOT correct to say that Doris and Lucy never worked together again. Wrong! In 1980 Doris appeared in the Lucille Ball Special, Lucy Moves to NBC. Did you know that? Doris played Lucy's longtime secretary, Wanda Clark. If there was any animosity between Lucy and Doris--and i am not sure that there was--then it wasn't reflected in the kind tributes Doris gave on television when Lucy died in 1989.
as some One who was born in 1960 - this was My Back & White TV watching Days of the mid to late 60's / early 70's....ahh memories...I remember her Fondly, and of Course LUCY...and her kids....dam time flys!! Turning 60 in July
and YES as someone who Grew up With Lucy...I think she should have been MORE Upfront and frank....its only Right....but maybe she was scared of Confrontation in some sort? We all know - they can and ARE Messy....whether you want them to be or not sometimes...
Well, "blood is Thicker than Water!" However, I think the show could have made room for Doris. She was a fantastic actress. The actress that portrayed "Mary Jane had a reoccurring role on "Here's Lucy. " Well, that's showbiz!"🎬🎭
Jr left after the 2nd year and Lucie had only a line or two in most of the episodes. Doris would have been a great ongoing foil for Lucy and provide show continuity as opposed to a parade of guest stars in most episodes.... Not professional at all on Lucy’s part especially that Doris was so good in the ILL shows she was in....
I think that Lucille Ball should. Have spoken. To Doris. Before. Just. Deciding it by herself. Not even considering. How Doris felt. Lucy. Was being callous. In that instance. Ellie Joy
I can understand that she wanted to promote her children (nepotism is commonplace in Hollywood, so it seems) but I think it is totally unprofessional to sign an actress and change the rules in the middle of the game. I suppose today's contracts are more specific when it comes to minimum airtime.
Sounds like showbiz too me. Here's one for you Rick....I was selected to be little Ricky on I Love Lucy. I was a twin. My brother and I were born in LA General in 1952. My mother belonged to a twin club were women of twin boys and girls would meet. When I Love Lucy decided to have a child, the producers came to their meeting with the idea of finding little Ricky. Well after the whole process they select my brother and me to be Little Ricky Recardo. If you saw my baby pictures you'd understand why. We were as close to Ricky Ricardo as anyone they'd find. But we were 4 months to young to legally be used so the part went to someone else. They liked us so much they continplated delaying the arrival of little ricky until we were of legal working age. That's my touch with showbiz. Edit: I've since found out from my only living relative that my brother and I were six weeks shy of six months that was needed to be legal. Sorry for the wrong info originally.
Absolutely Doris should have been told when the final decision came about that they weren't going to go with her. I mean just tell the woman so she can go about her life and find other work if she could. Would have been administratively professional had it been carried out. I enjoyed her acting and chemistry on ILL. Sad to know this is how it ended for her.
I have only ever seen I Love Lucy, not her other TV shows. I was just a kid at the time and really enjoyed it. Looking back at the simple humor of those days is still fun but I suspect Lucille Ball's character in the show was a lot nicer than she was in reality; I get the impression she was a tough cookie and could be very stand-offish. I know she was in a lot of movies in her younger days but the only one I saw her in was Mame. She was by then 63 and looking even older. Whatever effects they used to soften her face in close-ups made for the blurriest shots I had ever seen in a film. Where was CGI when she needed it? She should have made the movie 10 years earlier. That would have put her at about the same age as when Rosalind Russell made the enjoyable Auntie Mame. More generally the clip reminds me of shows I enjoyed way back then. A few years later I was an avid TV watcher of shows such as Leave it to Beaver*, Wagon Train*, Have Gun Will Travel*, Perry Mason*, Cheyenne, Sugarfoot*, 77 Sunset Strip, Hawaiian Eye, The Rifleman and Bonanza. I was not so fond of Maverick* or Gunsmoke but boy westerns were big in the black and white era. * Amazingly, all the shows marked with an asterisk were launched in the same year - 1957. The following year both 77 Sunset Strip and The Rifleman commenced and the long run of Bonanza started in 1959.
linda handley Desi Junior had some measure of talent/success with the band Dino, Desi & Billy back in the late ‘60’s, but the daughter had ZERO talent or chemistry.
I think as an actress Doris Singleton would have added a different layer to the show. It would have been two friends or "frenemies" involved in funny situations that would have taken the silliness away from Lucille Ball's constant shouting & overreacting which she tended to do in her later two series. Having another strong female lead would have given the show an edge. Instead you got her two children who were more or less acting like normal teenagers & Gale Gordon who's character would have been ok in small doses but the whole schtick of being angry with Lucy was overused. Lucy needed someone to compete with.
I think Lucy was emotionally lost w/o Ricky. The kids didn’t add much to the show. Talented Lucy made poor love decisions. She was empty inside and just didn’t have it to give her friend a proper send off or role in the show. She put on a brave face but was really broken inside.
She could have called or written her a note to tell her the decision she'd made. She was brave to straight up ask Lucy the reason. I wouldn't want to butt heads with THAT redhead! LOL She was one tough cookie!
![I Love Lucy Apartment Tour [CG Tour]](/img/1.gif)
I want to support Lucy, but... to be honest ... those kids were so forgettable. They didn't stand out at all, while most every "Lucy" fan (myself included) would have loved to see Doris. We KNEW she had the stuff to elevate the show.
newagetojo Ironically the same thing could be said for her kids. Sorry to be sounding harsh... I could go on, but their lives are fine as people now.. it’s not fine to compare a longtime experienced working actress in your post, a comedienne working with the best , to two ( at the time) teenagers who happened to be Lucy’s children. Not fair to them as well.
I am in the middle of watching all the Here's Lucys on tubitv. I really think Desi Jr. was very talented, especially his musical ability, though I never understood why they didn't play up his sex appeal, the way David Cassidy was being played up on the Partridge Family. Desi's sexiest episode was the one he did when he performed with Ann-Margret (the "Country Magic" song). There should have been more episodes like that. And Lucie's talent really grew as the series progressed and you can see why she went on to doing live stage work and musicals after Here's Lucy went off the air. I always believed that Lucy needed either a husband or steady boyfriend on both The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy. And yes if Viv wasn't available Doris would have made a good best friend besides Mary Jane Croft. I never really warmed up to Vanda Barra who appeared fairly regularly on Here's Lucy.
I think Lucy was good in her time, different, fresh. But quite honestly I don't think she was a really funny person. I don't think she had a natural sense of humor that many comedians do. I don't think she could write her own funny lines like, say, a standup comedian does. I also think she actually became a worse actress as she got older, which is odd. One of her last dramatic roles was in the 1980's called "The Stone Pillow". It was a terrible made for TV movie. Could not sit through it.
The kids couldn't act their way out of a brown paper bag.
They had other fine qualities.
@@marjoriemargel1567 What? They couldn't act worth beans. I'm sure they knew it themselves, the entire time. They weren't TRYING to be good, they weren't trying to be actors. They were getting their paychecks, and that's what counted.
I truly doubt that any of their self-worth is tied up in their acting talent, they probably laugh about it.
Why would they be offended? They did other things with their lives.
Considering what a huge asset Doris was to any show of Lucy’s,, cutting her out of the show behind her back was really a heartless move.
She should have told Mrs. Singleton. It was the professional thing to do.
I understand and appreciate Lucy looking out for her children by trying to give them a break and help them get into show business, but to the expense of others. If Doris Singleton was promised a role in the show, she should have have had her contract honored. My guess is that if contracts were signed, they had to buy out her contract, so at least Ms. Singleton got her money. On the other hand, I think that Lucy should have let her know ahead of time what was going on.
My husband worked with Lucy and Desi many times Ashe was a character actor, I heard many stories of Lucy from him. She was very serious almost a task master! She was a genius at knowing what would work and the business side too! A chain smoker that had 4 cigarets going on sound stage at once, so she could grab a smoke any area of the set. Not warm and fuzzy at all! But if she liked you, you got more gigs with her! My hubby was20+ years older than I so his stories were golden about
Clark Gable and the big stars, I miss his stories!
Wow! Just, wow!
I’m a diehard Lucy fan and always will be, but from what I know about her, which is extensive, she became an increasingly bitter and sad woman as she aged. I don’t believe she had much happiness in her life at all, especially after “I Love Lucy,” and she lived a lonely, isolated existence, like we see Ellen living now. I know someone who was married to a Sardi’s bartender and he said she was an absolute horror to deal with. Read Lee Tannen’s book on Lucy. You’ll see how truly sad she was in her final decade, and also that beneath it all, she really did love and appreciate her true fans, and feel things deeply. I’m glad she at least had a friend like Lee to make her happy and give her some respite from her demons - and she nearly ruined that friendship, too. I believe this story about Doris completely. Doris Singleton was a talented woman of remarkable class, and Lucy was lucky to have her.
Lee Tannen is interesting to listen to because he knew her during a time when few did.
I think your assessment is 100% correct. She changed completely after the divorce. She became bitter and bitter. I think the only time she was happier was when she was filming Mine, yours & ours. Anyways, she became bitter and angry that things turned out the way they did with Desi. She never recovered from that blow.
@@usforsarahYes, you’re right to mention the divorce - I think she saw it as a personal and public failure, deeply resented Desi (rightly so) and kept on loving him all the while. Talk about mixed emotions! And she was doing all this while venturing to places no woman had ever gone before in her industry. All she really needed was one man to be strong and faithful, to give her what no one else could, but she ultimately didn’t have that - she had to go it on her own and be strong for herself. Gary Morton may have been a kind man and a good companion, but he was certainly not able to protect Lucy - the little advice he did give her was self-serving, dreadful and even devastating, in fact. He was no Desi. How could he be?
@@rudypalma1250 I agree. I don't like Gary, he was an opportunist imo. From what I've read Vivian didn't like him and Lucie wasn't his biggest fan... I think Lucy was aware of it, but she didn't mind being his sugar mommy as long as he didn't cheat. There's one episode of Password and she sort of takes a dig at Gary "all he cares about is golf". His appearance on The Lucy Show wasn't good (I don't think the audience was very fond of him), and I know Lucy initially started doing her podcast in the 60's so he could have an occupation and be the producer.... needless to say he failed and her cousin ended up producing it. What a stooge.
Had Doris Singleton been in the show it certainly would have added more to the show. (I always enjoyed it when she appeared on I Love Lucy.) I don't know about everyone else Rick but I can't even watch Here's Lucy. Most of the plots I find flat and not very funny. But at the time people really did love Lucy and wanted to see her. It's too bad her comedy didn't evolve so her later shows could have achieved the same greatness as I Love Lucy.
Totally agree
I always blame the writers! Or give them most of the praise if the show is good
I don't like Here's Lucy either. The kids were not interesting enough. Doris would have been a better co-star (IMHO).
I'm glad I'm not the only one who found her post I Love Lucy show unfunny and even at times embarrassing. It's not humorous to see a woman in her 50s and 60s portray a 12 year old emotionally complete with pratfalls. No her character did not evolve/ grow beyond her Lucy Ricardo period
The trouble with most of these people is that they begin to believe their own PR. Arrogant, self-centered, and never the 'generous' star they are often portrayed as in the press.
The kids didn’t add anything to the show.
That drum episode I would have thrown those drumsticks out the window I don't care if I was the parent or not🤒😠
the boy did only two seasons the girl all six seasons. Both had good careers after the show
They don't on most shows.
I agree. Lucy carried that whole show on her back along with the guest stars. Her kids couldn't act.
Very unprofessional of Lucille Ball. Desi Arnaz Jr. had gotten a girl pregnant when he was 15 allegedly so maybe she felt this was the only way she could keep the kids out of more trouble.
First off, I loved Lucie and Desi, Jr in the show, but I also loved Doris Singleton in I Love Lucy. She was one of those characters that you liked to dislike. I can definitely understand why Lucy would want to showcase her two children, but it is a shame that she couldn't have handled Doris more courteously and appropriately. Great Info Rick. Thank you.
Given their history & long friendship Lucille could have been a little more kind. I'm sure they could have adjusted the show so everyone was involved.
@newagetojo You cannot say to what degree her co-stars Fred and Ethel had a career or would have had a career. William Frawley had been in Vaudeville long before I Love Lucy. Good Lord, that guy was old when he did that show so you don't know what type of career he had or really what was considered successful in that day and age. In his later years, after Lucy, William Frawley went on to play on My Three Sons until his death. I am not meaning to be a cheerleader for Frawley. I am just pointing out that this was so long ago, you really do not know the success level of Vivian Vance or what would have become of her or any of them. As far as Desi, it was Lucy who always said he was the brains of the business, not the actor so much.
@newagetojo why so angry?
Of course sorry to say Lucy was kind of a b@&ch in real life a perfectionist and so on. Just ask Joan Crawford from the grave Lol
Lucy should have told Doris in a better way, simply displaying common courtesy!
Pastor Henry Brash You would wake up and stop living in a dream world.
@ Pastor Henry Brash. I agree! It’s a way to do things, and this was not the way!
Lucy was known to have people "fired" with no notice and no explanation given....people she had worked with for years.
Of course, but we don't really know what happened. This video is one version, perhaps based on Mrs. Singleton's side of the story. Maybe other insiders would remember things a little differently.
All I know is that I once had a great friend -- at least I thought I did. We knew each other for years, worked together for years, retired the same year. Then, she dumped me -- no explanation, nothing. This just goes to show you don't really know your so-called best friend.
There are ugly realities behind the bright and happy façade of show business, and there always have been. The music business is much the same, too.
Thats normal with any business. Healthcare seems great but there is so much politics. Finance, real estate, restaurant businesses is cutthroat. Politics is politics. Its in every career, you just gotta have thick skin. That comes with experience
Yes, That Is True. However It Is Wrong To Keep People In The Dark.
@spooky katt Some People Have Got Class And Some People Have Got No Class At All. People Show Their True Colours.
Interesting.
So true!
So wrong of Lucy, at least she could have told her.
Unfortunately, that's show biz but right, Lucy should have confronted Doris. At least, she could have have some tidbits of dialogue sent Doris' way.
Lucy was not known for being a very nice person.
@@ajs11201 She had to be tough! She had to be as mean as the men, otherwise they would have thought she was weak
@@lazyhomebody1356 yes. This is true.. She was tough in business.. But fair..
And whether unintentional or not... Who comes between a "mother" and her children without suffering the consequences??
@@ajs11201 money went to her head
Yeah, that was definitely a mistake by Lucy. She should have let her know even if it was uncomfortable.
I never knew anything like this happened, but it’s very interesting. I love these Lucy videos Rick, keep up the great work!
I have read several books on Lucie & Desi, including their autobios. Lucy was not at all like the character she portrayed on I Love Lucy. She was a tough lady & her insecurities became worse after she & Desi were divorced. She was a work-a-holic & not nice to people. She wanted everything done her way. The only one she trusted & listened to was Desi. Even after their divorce, she would ask him for his advice. But, even to close friends & family, she could be cold. Her other two shows were never as good as I Love Lucy.
She was all those things. She was also a great success, and Desilu Studios cultivated and supported a lot of careers.
It is sad that she was treated so shabbily. Sad, but that is Hollywood. And, for that matter, that is life.
H'wood is a cesspool.
I'll preface this by saying that I've always been a big fan of Lucille Ball; I've loved her work on TV and in movies. But for as brilliant a comedienne and actress as she was, I've heard a great many stories about how difficult she could be and that she was often extremely rude and very unkind--to people both in and out of the business.
Lucy was determined not to lose her claim to fame She clawed her way to the top & was determined not to lose it to anyone.
I'd take that with a grain of salt. Today, assertive women are still called b!tches. I can only imagine how badly her position of power would rankle the nerves of so many people.
She was famously UNFUNNY off stage, I've read that a million times.
I think she was very direct or even blunt. Even when she gave compliments, she got to the point. When Mary Tyler Moore was rehearsing a scene as Laura Petrie at Desilu, Lucy turned to her as she was leaving and said, "You're very good." Mary said later,"Not a lot of flowers" to it, but she was thrilled that Lucy liked her work.
@@barbraseville8984 And she hated running the studio. She wanted to perform. She kind of got stuck doing it after Desi was out of the picture. But she felt an obligation to the employees.
I have heard that Lucille Ball was always very gracious and giving to her fans. Also, someone who is supposedly so rude - she had people from her days in radio (Gale Gordon - her writers Madelyn Pugh, Bob Caroll Jr. etc etc. who knew her for decades kept working for her.) Also, people like her personal female attendant who traveled all around with her and was with her for decades too, as well and drivers and handyman. Day in and day out exposure - yet never had a bad word to say about her. Also, the story about Sammy Davis is awful. Also, after his appearance on The Lucy show, he gave an introduction talk when she was given an award - absolutely lovely and laudatory, starting with, "The sun never sets on Lucille Ball" Why would anybody who had such distaste for her have done that?
Lucy knew it was an awkward situation and avoided telling her until she asked. Not cool on Lucy's part!
Exactly! She just kept putting it off like any of us would.
It seems that such a strong women would have been more upfront. I once worked for a female business owner that did similar to me. goes to show, even the strongest people have their major weaknesses
The Lucy shows after "I love Lucy" were, in my opinion, unfunny. Lucy was too old to play the same scatterbrained character that worked so well in the black and white early episodes. Her children were not a good addition either.
That's what happened to many stars that tried to hang on. It was quite evident that they didn't have it anymore, and their claim to fame was long gone. And, they embarrassed themselves something awful to prove it.
You are entitled to your opinion but Lucy was on the air for years and that was due to her popularity. The shows actually did really well maybe not as funny as I LOVE LUCY but I would watch them just because of Lucy. I did miss the chemistry they all had on I love Lucy! The cast was fantastic.
I agree not a fan of that show
Not to mention they recycled many of the comical bits from I love Lucy....the physical comedy looked particularly dangerous for a older lucy as well...
@@MrMd217 You just kind of made that poster's point. The show was second rate and it was only because of Lucy's past, when she was younger, fresh, times in the nation were different, when she was at her peak that she was watched. It was because of a memory of a once good, fresh show, not the one you were watching with an older, sad actress who tried to hang on. There was a sad story Lucy told in an interview once. She was in an elevator and a young adult got in. They started talking and the young woman asked "What do you do?" Her answer was."I used to be on TV."
Well, if you notice on the 1962 Lucy Show, the three kids (Ralph Hart, Candy Moore and Jimmy Garrett) had prominent roles during the first season but then they were drastically reduced during the 2nd and 3rd seasons and they were then written out of the series completely. Lucy was happy when her favorite, Gale Gordon joined the cast at the beginning of Season 2. When Viv left after Season 3, she added Mary Jane Croft as a regular character. I think 2 of the kids are STILL annoyed about being let go because they were NOT interviewed for the Lucy Show DVDs, but Jimmy Garrett was.
rtususian I read that Candy Moore had stated that Lucille Ball actually was afraid of Candy’s stardom. She extremely popular with younger viewers and Lucille felt that it was taking away the focus from her. Also, Vivian Vance was tired of commuting from Connecticut to do the show, and wanted to reduce her time the show or even quit. This all came ahead at the end of third season when Vivian decided to retire from the series and this enabled Lucille revamp the series by the having the character of “Viv” remarry. The boys go off the military school and “Chris” enter college and her character relocate to California.
Mary Jane Croft....what was her relationship w Lucy? Anyone ever viewed videos of her discussing her experiences working w Lucy?
John Michael Gunner I believe they were friends in real life. Mary Jane was also on I Love Lucy quite a bit.
John Michael Gunner my FAVE episode with Mary Jane Croft was the return from Europe one. She’s sitting next to Lucy on the plane. Lucy’s “baby” is a big hunk of cheese. Lol.
@@eduardoramirezjr4403 It's funny, on the Lucy Show Candy Moore was considered one of the main steady characters, but a lot of the time her storylines and dialogue were kind of brief. But on the Donna Reed Show, where she was only an occasional actor, she played Jeff's girlfriend, it seems that she had a lot more to do in each of the episodes she was in. She wasn't in every episode, mind you, but the ones she was in she had a lot more dialogue than any of the Lucy Shows she was in. That was one of the things I didn't like about the Lucy Show, every single episode had to focus on Lucy instead of giving some of the other characters a main story.
Hi Rick, yeah it would have been nice if Lucy told her friend what happened. Thank you for sharing
You didn’t give us Lucy’s side of the story.
Right you are my dear. Right you are.
I'm going to be interviewing her next month, I will ask her.
Sammy Davis describes how he once worked with Lucy a couple of months after he lost his eye so he was wearing a prosthetic one .During one scene he describes how she kept trying to poke the eye out with a stick as a joke, of course Sammy didn't think it was funny at all.Her ex Desi Arnez described her as being cruel at times
WOW! That's harsh! Poking someone's eye.
after I love Lucy she was never as funny in the other shows..just a diff style and writing not as clever either
Well, I think a lot of people would disagree because the first 2 seasons of The Lucy Show (1962-64) were mostly written by her original writers, Bob Carroll Jr. and Madelyn Martin/Pugh/Davis. After they left at the end of Season 2, the writing did kind of go downhill and the situations more forced and too far-fetched. And her show became more of a sketch comedy show which is not the right format for Lucy in my opinion.
Dezi was the one who knew her the best and made the est lines for her. :(
I miss them
Lucy was extremely loyal to family. Her father died when she was, I believe, 4 and her grandfather lost the farm due to unfortunate accident. She vowed that she would take care of her family, but she took care of close personal friends as well. On the other hand, she could be fierce, being a woman in an executive capacity. She expected Lucy and Desi, jr to be able to support themselves without her influence. This was the way of life in California.
So good to finally see a Rick Nineg video! !! Hope ur doing well. And as usual, great content ;)
I post every other day so make sure to check back
I think Lucille Ball would be rather difficult to get along with on a personal and professional level and she probably would not consider people's feelings to much extent in her decisions and actions. I also agree with Martin's post about the Here's Lucy and I would add the Lucy Show. I found them boring and it was awkward to watch her try to carry the entire comedic weight herself without Desi and the others from I Love Lucy.
David l didn't like Here's Lucy one bit! Without Desi something was missing 😞
Doris was a professional actress and brought a lot to the show. Her kids, not so much.
egomaniacal ....?
You got some splainin to do lucy baal
BladeStar 775 Love your " splainin" sum up!!!!
After the divorce from Desi, Lucy became a bitter miserable person!!.. Just ask any flight attendant to ever had the unfortunate task of having her on their flight!!.. In today's terms we would would refer to her as a "KAREN"!!!
Unfortunately yes, she was heartbroken and never recovered from the divorce. She went on to be content but not happy. Her salvation was her work.
I was a flight attendant back in the day. She (Lucy) was nasty to the flight crew when I flew with her.
I don’t know that I believe Doris’s story. Signed contracts and she was legally committed? That means that the show was legally committed back to her too. Contracts work two ways and obligations flow in both directions. I cannot imagine what kind of a contact would exist that over time she suddenly realized she’s not on the show. What was in the contract?
Well, this happens from time to time. "We decided to go in a different direction" happens. Not saying it was right or wrong but look at Doris Day. She had a show for 5 seasons, all high in the ratings. Denver Pyle was in the first 2 seasons as her farmer dad, but then the focus moved to Doris as a city worker with the great Rose Marie as her friend for Seasons 2 and 3. Then, Doris called Rose and told her "moving in a new direction, want to keep the show fresh" so Rose Marie was out as her friend, and Jackie Joseph was in for the last 2 seasons. Also, McLean Stevenson was her boss in seasons 2 and 3, then he was out and John Dehner was her boss for seasons 4 and 5. In Show Biz an actor has to have a thick skin from what I've seen.
Yeah, the format of The Doris Day Show changed every flipping season. Once the Mary Tyler Moore Show became popular, Doris's show followed suit and became more urbane and sophisticated.
Outside of Fran Ryan who played Ms. Days housekeeper part of the first year of the program I have heard of any bad blood between Ms. Day and any of her many co stars .
Here is another situation where people love Doris Day. I always loved the format of her living in San Francisco with her son's and the father still apart of her life. The support cast was great too. Why change it? Season 4 and 5 not so good.
Excellent point, but at least Denver Pyle directed a handful of episodes in season 3.
Hello! Great shows, awesome times, thank you & take care.
The Superman episode in I Love Lucy was one of my favorites as well. Its unfortunate that Doris Singleton didnt work out. Even if she wasnt a good fit I think it was a bit shady the way she was dropped with no initial explanation.
Great vlog Rick ty for sharing lucy😂🇨🇦🇨🇦
I do remember Doris Singleton on an episode of All in the Family when Edith was on Jury Duty. Doris played a wealthy juror who snubbed her nose at Edith. I wonder if she took the part to spite Lucille Ball who hated All in the Family
Oh God Jerry, I never knew that! Maybe Doris did in part for that reason. I do know that (early) All in the Family episode was one of THE best of the entire series because of Doris, and her interaction with Jean Stapleton. She really had star billing in that episode. She was also a beautiful woman and today when I watch that episode I like the contrast of seeing her in both the '50s and the '70s.
@@robmcgowan4034 I did however see her on an episode of Here's Lucy a few years later. Perhaps Lucille Ball softened a bit by then Rob
I remember that episode of "All in the Family". Doris Singleton was also in two different episodes of "The Dick Van Dyke" show (my favorite line she says to her son as they're leaving the Petrie house: "What's the MATTER with you, getting chocolate all over Mr. Petrie!") I think she was also in an episode of "Hazel". I love watching reruns of old TV shows and have seen her now and then in some of them.
It’s never an easy conversation to tell someone some bad news, but as a friend, she should’ve told her. Maybe she was concerned about how it would effect their friendship, but I think she made things worse by not telling her.
I grew up on I love Lucy.still watch the show now.
She could of made Doris’s role different and given her a part as well as her kids. Been fair to a friend and fellow actor. A meeting would of been appreciated to explain the different roles. She could of asked Doris to help her kids with learning the trade. Very sad.
Could OF ,would OF ....Americans' English.
Nothing could help those kids. LOL
The Lucy show sucked, Not funny at all It would of been better with Doris on the show. Lucy kids are just not actors. No talent like mom and dad!
@@davidmjaramilloAt least their hard work parlayed into the American success story...
Could *have, would *have. Grab a book once in a while, for Pete's sake!
Neither of the kids went on to do anything. Such a shame for Doris Singleton, she was a great actor and probably needed the work (and money) that the kids would never need.
@newagetojo Im sure having his father's name helped a lot .
The kids never went on to do anything??? Are you serious? Desi Jr. worked for years in movies and TV long after his time on "Here's Lucy" -- many movies and TV movies, and starring in the cult TV series, "Automan." After years of showbiz pressure that led him into addiction problems, he finally conquered his demons and got the hell outta Dodge in order to live a peaceful life, along with his beloved wife, far away from the L.A. parties and the relentless tabloid spotlight. They were married for three decades, until her unfortunate loss to cancer a couple years ago. And Lucie pursued a long career on stage, which is what she wanted to do. She has spent the better part of her career on Broadway, London's West End, and most recently touring the United States in "Pippin" a couple years ago, as Berthe. She has also had a successful career as a cabaret singer, and most important to her, as a devoted wife and mother (she's been married to Laurence Luckinbill for 40 years). I was planning to see Lucie's one-woman show in Los Angeles in March but I couldn't get a ticket because the show was SOLD OUT. I thought I would have no problem purchasing a ticket a full month in advance, but no, tickets to her show were ALL GONE. She has a following. But then coronavirus happened anyway and shut everything down. Since her "Here's Lucy" days, Lucie Arnaz has won or been nominated for a number of awards for her stage work, and also won an Emmy Award as a producer.
@newagetojo I remember Doris on some other TV shows like Perry Mason, but she will always be best remembered as Lucy Ricardo's "frenemy".
There's a long, ignoble history of "nepo" babies, and this is just one example. In the U.S especially, movies, TV, music, and politics are filled to the brim with them.
I hope Doris Singleton at least got a good buyout amount for having her contract terminated.
Doris Singleton was in an episode of All In The Family which is on RUclips.
I remember that. She wasn't impressed with Edith's story about Hostess Twinkies.
Wow! That was a really odd way for Doris to find out that she was out considering how Lucy and she had worked together.
Well, I read that Lucy's mother said "Lucy can be a bitch!"...
Very interesting video Rick. I remember her character and always wondered what happened to her. Thank you for sharing. I hope Falco is on the men. Have a great day. Blessings - Judith
I wasn't a big fan of Here's Lucy - it certainly could have used Doris Singleton's talent to improve the show!!
I never watched it.
Agreed. Here’s Lucy was awful most of the time
linda handley you’re lucky
This may sound sexist but Lucy needed a husband on The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy. She needed someone to have to answer to, a banker who is unrelated to you (despite Uncle Harry being Lucy's brother-in-law on Here's Lucy), is not the same as a husband. It started to get ridiculous when Lucy would screw things up for Mr. Mooney yet he always was asking her for a favor, or to do something for him, and when he actually hired her to work directly under him, I always asked myself, why the hell would he want her to be around him all the time if she's such a screw-up?? Didn't make sense. Gomer Pyle annoying Sgt. Carter all the time was different because they really didn't have much of a choice about working together, they were in the military.
Her kids were average actors, but they did not have the comedic flair that their mom did. It's funny how in The Lucy Show, she had kids other than her own play her kids and also had Vivian Vance come back to play opposite of her. Gale Gordon was good, but I'm glad he was never picked for Fred Mertz.
If Doris Singleton had a signed contract that actually itemized how many lines she'd get and/or how many episodes she's be in, then she should've brought that to Desilu's attention. I've seen many interviews with Lucille Ball where she stated that she liked to work with "pros" only -- that little trick that Lucy pulled doesn't sound very professional to me. I don't care WHOSE kids they are! They shouldn't get top billing over a seasoned actress like Ms Singleton. Lucy should be ashamed smh....
Thanks for your information about Doris Singleton &Lucy.I always like to learn behind the scenes facts.
I don't think it was professional or right the way she told Doris Singleton.they all could've been on the show.that surprised me about Lucy.
Kindness isn’t excluded just because it’s “show business” it would have just been considerate of Lucy to let Doris know she was being replaced.
They should of told her! They can't do that now the actor can sue!
It is sad to hear of Lucy’s life being so intense all the time. She really copped it from everyone. Despite this she rose. I loved everything she did creatively. Often it’s hard to get the balance right. I feel the balance was more in her favour. She’s only one person. She did pretty good! She’s absolutely unforgettable.
Lucy should have said something up front. I am sure she felt awkward about saying we are going with my kids instead of you, but it still should have been said. Oh well, Lucy was just as human as any of us.
Show biz is a BIZ! Period. No need for public outcry.... these things are taken care of by agents, managers, PERIOD.
If Lucy had struck a deal with Doris to appear as a regular recurring member of the cast on Here's Lucy and contracts were signed. Then I think it was wrong for Lucy to not tell Doris that she'd changed her mind. It does not surprise me and I believe Doris when she says the reason for being cut out was to benefit Lucie and Desi Jr.
It is well known that Ms. Ball was difficult to work with. Vivian Vance had to maintain a higher weight to make her look older (Vance was actually younger than Lucy). It is true that as the various shows continued, each got worse. She never could recreate the chemistry from I Love Lucy.
Viv was two years older than Lucy. Viv was born in 1909, Lucy in 1911. Incidentally, Gale Gordon was born in 1908 and Desi Sr in 1917. And I was born in 1961. LOL
No it was not in her contract that was a running joke that Vivian who was 2 years older had to maintain a certain weight.
Also please remember that Vance was passive aggressive and she was the one who constantly complained that she had to be married to "that old man". Btw Wm Frawley was hired first so why did she take the part. Her statements about Frawley she let be known loud and clear - thus setting up the animosity between them. Vivian Vance was married 4x, 3rd marriage was abusive and Lucy helped her thru it, and her 4th marriage which lasted the longest, her husband was a homosexual.
Very good video 👍😊 it is very interesting to learn more about these classic television shows and learn about the history surrounding them I think Lucy could have been more upfront about it though thanks for a great video
This doesn't surprise me. I've heard what a difficult person Lucille Ball was. And her shows after "I Love Lucy" were never all that successful. People wanted to see Lucy and Desi (Ricky) much more than they wanted to see just Lucy. That was the elephant in the room, as Lucy soldiered on alone. Her shows attracted gradually less and less of an audience as time went on. I was a huge "I Love Lucy" fan. I never watched Lucy's subsequent shows because I wanted to remember the show at its best.
She should have kept Doris and ditched her children... they were terrible actors and had zero screen presence... Even though the show lasted 6 seasons, it was awful... mostly because of the horrible writing, but the children added NOTHING!!!
Wow! I never knew this story. But as already commented by other viewers, what was in her (Singleton) contract? She had to have one. But, regardless, Lucy should have had a meeting with Ms Singleton to break the news. So sad. I know what it's like to be 'dumped' by a so-called best friend.
Ridiculous. Nepotism is always bad be it the movies, music, sports,modeling,etc. I've seen too many people pushed into these things where they'll never be on their parent(s)level no matter what. The Arnez children, Katie Austin, Sailor Brinkley(Christie Brinkley daughter), Chloe Olsen(Kathy Ireland daughter), Charlotte Flair(Ric Flair), Curtis Axel( Mr Perfect wrestler), Kaia Jordan Gerber (Cindy Crawford daughter), they all weren't/never be on their parents level. Most, if not, all of them, were pushed into these professions by their folks eager to recreate themselves through their kids which is a wrong and dumb approach to life.
As a wrestling fan I would argue that Charlotte is well on her way to carving out a place in history as one of the best and most decorated female wrestlers - there's no surpassing her dad of course, but she is definitely living up to her name
The parents should encourage other fields they can be successful in. When you have a parent that "big" in a certain arena, those are big shoes to fill. They should encourage their children's other interests to forge their own successful path.
PS...The Carolyn Appleby episode where they compete over their children was actually one of my favorites of the series.
I love your videos and I love Lucy! Keep doing what you love 💕
I am surprised that Lucy would go back on an offer to a valued colleague like Doris; especially if legal contracts were signed did Doris get compensated? From interviews of have seen, Doris never said anything about this and Lucy said she brought her children on to keep tabs on them; Desi Jr. did have a bit of his father in him.
They acted like they didn’t want to be there at all. Today, Lucie still appears in stage shows, and she not a bad singer and dancer, but people remember her Mom much more
Once people get a little recognition they tend to forget about others. It's a shame Doris was handled that way. I enjoyed her in all the Lucy shows. I hope she was able to continue in show business.
That's what I was just commenting to another person about the money went to her head she divorce Desi Arnaz showed she can be her own boss and just let it go to her head and started treating other people like crap and I think it was just wrong I seen her in a different light as I got older😔
@@GalaxyIsADork Do you even know all the hurt and pain Desi caused Lucy?
@@01chippe Exactly, he was a womanizer and an alcoholic.. Mean tempered when he drank. Neck to neck with Bill Frawley when it came to boozing it up..
Lucy was famous for being the worst airline passenger in the history of the industry! She was horribly abusive to the crews and ground personnel.. It was back when United was about the only airline that served Hawaii and Lucy flew back and forth often. The United crews and other employees were in such revolt that finally United banned her from traveling on their airline for life! The way a people treat underlings and servants always reveals their real characters.
real class is how one treats others
BTW if you remember when The Lucy Show started in 1962 Gale Gordon was not on it as bank president Mooney. The great Charles Lane played her boss, Mr. Barnsdahl. He had done several I Love Lucy episodes. Gordon was unavailable in 1962 due to he was playing Mr. Wilson on Dennis the Menace, which ended it's run in 1963, he became available and Charles Lane was out. Lane never held a grudge as Lucille Ball cast him in several other shows.
Shame on you Lucy! The two Arnaz kids didn't add much to the show!
Lucille Ball was jealous. She had to be number 1!
I think all of Desi’s cheating & womanizing made her a bitter jealous woman - and she had a hard time accepting other women.
@@MissysAngels It also was just part of any actors insecurity. You never know when a actor becomes a hit with the fans and network...I feel that’s what she was thinking......
I doubt she was jealous of Doris. Who do you think offered her the role in the first place!? Lucille, the boss and star of the show...
I think the way Lucy handled it really sucks. I can see her wanting to give her children a break but she could have done it another way instead.
If contracts was signed, I would have sued her (Lucy). Give me my money & I'll go away.
Contracts were signed, so Doris was probably still getting paid, but I am sure she wanted the on camera exposure also.
Lucy was the boss, so it was her call to make.
To somewhat quote a line from "The Godfather", "It's not personal Doris, it's strictly business".
Common courtesy would have been to let Doris know things had changed and that she would still be getting paid and was free to pursue other opportunities.
I've always heard that Lucille Ball was difficult to work with. I think Doris Singleton was better off, even though that was a crappy way of letting her go! Typical Lucy.
Doris should have known how show business works. One day you're on top, the next day you're waiting by the phone. It happens all the time - don't blame Lucy!
Lucky was not the person she acted like on the show. Lucy was a prude. She was not nice to patty duke while she was dating Jr.
Lucy was not a fan of Patty Duke, she much preferred Desi dated someone like Liza Minnelli, in fact Lucy said in interviews she knew Liza before she even had her own children.
Unfortunately, for many years in the business I heard that Doris Singleton was kind of bitchy like some of her characters in various shows, that just like Joan Collins, her real life persona was very much the same as those characters. Somehow, I believe it!
Well, that’s only one side of the story, maybe Lucy’s kids could be contacted for the other side of the story????
Good luck with that, Tony Razzano!
@@marjoriemargel1567 Nepotism - keep the money in the family- just like the Trumps
@@johnlewinski6359 you can't even read an article about someone else and then throw Trump in it hey guess what Trump is going to be your president in 2020 haha
@@earlenebrown354 - oh did I upset your little brain- boohoo- guess you'll be crying November 3rd when we finally get rid of that LYING POS
To me, her daughter seems nice enough, but seems even in her acting and singing, she went in a different direction.
One of the most brilliant comedians of all time. That being said, it is no secret the Lucy was a very difficult and even at times cruel person to work with or be around.
Sorry to learn Doris' role had been eliminated from the show. I always felt she added so much so every scene she was in from the "I Love Lucy" days. I wonder if Lucille Ball ever regretted this decision.
That's just not right. I've been in business for myself and a few times I took a financial loss in order to "keep my word" and "reputation" as a reliable, credible person. I have always had a real disdain for "nepotism". I dealt with it when I worked for "other people" before I went solo. Let her stupid kids find their own way instead of "turning" on an old reliable friend. I just can't stand "bosses sons". From my all too numerous experiences they are lazy, opinionated without facts or experience, pushy because they know they can't be fired and generally obnoxious clowns.
I felt the same way about my bosses' wives. They always came to the office and acted like they were just as much our boss as their husbands were. I couldn't stand any of them.
The kids never had much success in showbiz.
I really liked both Doris Singleton and Mary Jane Croft as Lucy's sidekicks and would have loved to seen more of them. Lucy's kids, though, were actually very likable in the show. Too bad they couldn't make room for EVERY body!
I remember Dick Cavett commented to Lucille Ball, due to her position as Head of Desilu, that she must have to fire people. He asked like it was a status position. She got very quiet and said, if she had to let somebody go, she fretted and often cried over it, that it was always something difficult for her to do.
Rick, it is simply NOT correct to say that Doris and Lucy never worked together again. Wrong! In 1980 Doris appeared in the Lucille Ball Special, Lucy Moves to NBC. Did you know that? Doris played Lucy's longtime secretary, Wanda Clark. If there was any animosity between Lucy and Doris--and i am not sure that there was--then it wasn't reflected in the kind tributes Doris gave on television when Lucy died in 1989.
So, Not only was she the Queen of Comedy, but also NEPOTISM!
Wow... Lucy, was all kinds of special.
as some One who was born in 1960 - this was My Back & White TV watching Days of the mid to late 60's / early 70's....ahh memories...I remember her Fondly, and of Course LUCY...and her kids....dam time flys!! Turning 60 in July
and YES as someone who Grew up With Lucy...I think she should have been MORE Upfront and frank....its only Right....but maybe she was scared of Confrontation in some sort? We all know - they can and ARE Messy....whether you want them to be or not sometimes...
Well, "blood is Thicker than Water!" However, I think the show could have made room for Doris. She was a fantastic actress. The actress that portrayed "Mary Jane had a reoccurring role on "Here's Lucy. " Well, that's showbiz!"🎬🎭
Jr left after the 2nd year and Lucie had only a line or two in most of the episodes. Doris would have been a great ongoing foil for Lucy and provide show continuity as opposed to a parade of guest stars in most episodes.... Not professional at all on Lucy’s part especially that Doris was so good in the ILL shows she was in....
I think that Lucille Ball should. Have spoken. To Doris. Before. Just. Deciding it by herself. Not even considering. How Doris felt. Lucy. Was being callous. In that instance. Ellie Joy
I loved the way George Reeves said "And they call me Superman"
Terrible, Lucy Should Have Explained To Her That She Wanted To Use Her children.
Any Good Friend Will Certainty Understand.
Lucy didn’t like her
In this case friendship really worked against Doris singleton. If Lucy had been a real friend she would’ve figured out another way
I can understand that she wanted to promote her children (nepotism is commonplace in Hollywood, so it seems) but I think it is totally unprofessional to sign an actress and change the rules in the middle of the game. I suppose today's contracts are more specific when it comes to minimum airtime.
Sounds like showbiz too me.
Here's one for you Rick....I was selected to be little Ricky on I Love Lucy. I was a twin. My brother and I were born in LA General in 1952. My mother belonged to a twin club were women of twin boys and girls would meet. When I Love Lucy decided to have a child, the producers came to their meeting with the idea of finding little Ricky. Well after the whole process they select my brother and me to be Little Ricky Recardo. If you saw my baby pictures you'd understand why. We were as close to Ricky Ricardo as anyone they'd find. But we were 4 months to young to legally be used so the part went to someone else. They liked us so much they continplated delaying the arrival of little ricky until we were of legal working age.
That's my touch with showbiz.
Edit: I've since found out from my only living relative that my brother and I were six weeks shy of six months that was needed to be legal. Sorry for the wrong info originally.
So sweet a story !! Thank you for sharing it !!
How cool!
Absolutely Doris should have been told when the final decision came about that they weren't going to go with her. I mean just tell the woman so she can go about her life and find other work if she could. Would have been administratively professional had it been carried out. I enjoyed her acting and chemistry on ILL. Sad to know this is how it ended for her.
I have only ever seen I Love Lucy, not her other TV shows. I was just a kid at the time and really enjoyed it. Looking back at the simple humor of those days is still fun but I suspect Lucille Ball's character in the show was a lot nicer than she was in reality; I get the impression she was a tough cookie and could be very stand-offish. I know she was in a lot of movies in her younger days but the only one I saw her in was Mame. She was by then 63 and looking even older. Whatever effects they used to soften her face in close-ups made for the blurriest shots I had ever seen in a film. Where was CGI when she needed it? She should have made the movie 10 years earlier. That would have put her at about the same age as when Rosalind Russell made the enjoyable Auntie Mame.
More generally the clip reminds me of shows I enjoyed way back then. A few years later I was an avid TV watcher of shows such as Leave it to Beaver*, Wagon Train*, Have Gun Will Travel*, Perry Mason*, Cheyenne, Sugarfoot*, 77 Sunset Strip, Hawaiian Eye, The Rifleman and Bonanza. I was not so fond of Maverick* or Gunsmoke but boy westerns were big in the black and white era.
* Amazingly, all the shows marked with an asterisk were launched in the same year - 1957. The following year both 77 Sunset Strip and The Rifleman commenced and the long run of Bonanza started in 1959.
Chemistry is just chemistry. Unfortunately her kids had none.
They just didn't have the acting skills their mother and dad did!
linda handley Desi Junior had some measure of talent/success with the band Dino, Desi & Billy back in the late ‘60’s, but the daughter had ZERO talent or chemistry.
I think as an actress Doris Singleton would have added a different layer to the show. It would have been two friends or "frenemies" involved in funny situations that would have taken the silliness away from Lucille Ball's constant shouting & overreacting which she tended to do in her later two series. Having another strong female lead would have given the show an edge. Instead you got her two children who were more or less acting like normal teenagers & Gale Gordon who's character would have been ok in small doses but the whole schtick of being angry with Lucy was overused. Lucy needed someone to compete with.
I agree with your assertion. A double lead...or a co-lead 🌟
I think Lucy was emotionally lost w/o Ricky. The kids didn’t add much to the show. Talented Lucy made poor love decisions. She was empty inside and just didn’t have it to give her friend a proper send off or role in the show. She put on a brave face but was really broken inside.
She could have called or written her a note to tell her the decision she'd made. She was brave to straight up ask Lucy the reason. I wouldn't want to butt heads with THAT redhead! LOL She was one tough cookie!