Missionary Lesson Prep #2 - The Plan of Salvation (Pt 1) - JLLDS #5
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- This video is intended to inform Bible based Christians with the fundamental beliefs of the LDS Church and to equip the saints in order for them to have thought-provoking discussions with LDS missionaries in hopes of helping them to think more Biblically.
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I’m pretty sure that all of these are questions that you and I have already discussed. To recap those past conversations:
“How did Jesus experience joy without sinning first, the way the Book of Mormon says that Adam and Eve had to?”
It’s important to remember that, unlike Adam and Eve, Jesus was born into a fallen world. That means there are other sources of misery besides personal sin. If someone else man punches me in the face, for example, I’ll suffer as a result, but that doesn’t mean I had to sin in order to feel that misery. Same with things like sickness, natural disaster, or even just watching the misery that people around you feel. There are limitless sources of pain and misery in the world, and the NT teaches that Jesus was not immune to that through His life. Again, that’s very different from Adam and Eve’s situation in the Garden of Eden.
“Wouldn’t your bishops be mediators if they’re standing between you and God’s forgiveness?”
The key to this issue is that our Bishops are acting within their appointed role as judges. And, as a judge, it’s their job to determine if discipline is necessary or if the person has/will fully repent. Repentance is hard, and the more serious the sin is the harder the repentance. Some sins, if left unresolved, would have to result in formal discipline from the Church, or even excommunication. Your Bishop is the appointed judge over matters like these, to determine if someone is willing to repent or whether formal discipline is needed. If they’re willing to repent, it’s the Bishop’s job to help them through that process and to make sure they see it through to the end. That said, we don’t agree with the Catholics that priests have the ability to absolve people of sin. This is simply a requirement for when a member of our church has committed a sin that would otherwise require discipline.
“Do people who haven’t been baptized and confirmed have the gift of the Holy Spirit?”
Unlike the others, I don’t think you and I have discussed this one. The key that you’re missing is that there’s a difference between having the gift of the Holy Spirit and just feeling the influence of the Holy Spirit. The influence of the Holy Spirit can be felt by anyone. This is what we see in Acts 10. We also see this happen every time someone reads the Book of Mormon and sincerely asks if it’s true or not. However, that’s not the same as having the gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit means that you’re able to have the Spirit as a constant companion so long as you’re spiritually worthy. That’s what’s given to those who are baptized and confirmed.
“What about D&C 138:59?”
I personally interpret “transgressions” in verse 59 to refer to any sins left unrepented. If there’s any sins that a person can’t let go of then they have to pay a just penalty, even if they’ve repented of other sins. Repentance isn’t all or nothing, and I imagine that a lot of people won’t be capable of turning away from all their sins. We do not, however, have to suffer for the sins that we’ve repented of.
And I believe the answer to the rest of your questions would be something along the lines of “Sola scriptura is your problem and not ours. We don’t limit ourselves to only the Bible. Bringing Protestant presuppositions into a study of another denomination is inevitably going to create problems and misunderstandings, which is exactly what we see here. The answer isn’t that LDS doctrine is wrong, it’s that your Protestant presuppositions are wrong.
Also, minor correction. The Plan of Salvation was made by the Father in the premortal life, not Jesus. Jesus accepted the Father’s plan, not the other way around.
Pre-Mortal Life does not exist it man made invention by the Mormon False Prophet Joseph Smith, also Jeremiah 1:5 states that clearly, we was created in the womb, so to be created means you never existed prior to being created. Fact
When you say think more biblically you mean think like a protestant.
What I mean is that I put any kind of creed on the shelf while you put any kind of LDS doctrine on the shelf, we both read the Bible and allow it to freely speak apart from any presupposition, read Scripture in context and see where it leads.
I know that you and I have had this conversation before. You’re very clearly reading the Bible with a specific set of uniquely-Protestant presuppositions and I don’t understand why you keep trying to deny that obvious fact.
@@ConnorSmith-lh7uw We can chat more about some specific presuppositions you are referring to.
Okay. How about Sola Scriptura? That seems like a good place to start.
Can you cite a specific reference where I misinterpret the text in light of this accusation?
No judgment, but what you're teaching isn't biblical... you can find the plan of salvation throughout the bible New and Old Testament
Please list a specific detail I stated that you believe is unbiblical.
@JLLDS 1. The fall of Adam: Lucifer told Adam and Eve that they would become God's and know of good and evil. When they partook of the fruit, God said now man has become one of us knowing of good and evil. So did God lie???
2. I have a testimony of repentance. I left the church for Protestant Christianity for a brief moment. I was breaking the law of chastity and I kept repenting the Evangelical way. Nothing happened and I kept sinning. I then I came back to the church and went through the repentance the right way. I've been born again and I'm a changed man.
3. Baptism is essential to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5
@@austineastman777 Hey brother, thanks for commenting. Would be up for coming on my channel and just having a respectful discussion about your understanding of the gospel sometime in the next month or so?
@JLLDS I'd love to come on and have a friendly discussion! Just let me know the details, and we can set something up!
@@austineastman777 Cool! Not sure if we are already connected on Facebook. Feel free to send me a message and we can keep in touch there, brother.