German Exploitation of Occupied Industries - Effective?
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- Опубликовано: 17 янв 2019
- Alfred: Integration of foreign industries into the German war efforts in WW2. What about the impact of the the industries in the conquered countries? How where they integrated? What were the biggest problems? How efficient could they be run?
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Military History NOT Visualized is a support channel to Military History Visualized with a focus personal accounts, answering questions that arose on the main channel and showcasing events like visiting museums, using equipment or military hardware.
» SOURCES «
Tooze, Adam: The Wages of Destruction. The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy. Penguin Books: United Kingdom (2006).
Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg - Band 5 / 1
ENGLISH VERSION: Germany and the Second World War Volume 5 / 1
Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg - Band 5 / 2
ENGLISH VERSION: Germany and the Second World War Volume 5 / 2
Tooze, Adam; Martin, Jamie: The economic of the war with Nazi Germany. In: Cambridge History of the Second World War. Volume III. Total War: Economy, Society and Culture. Cambridge University Press: 2015
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Do you have a video yet on the promise vs reality of Lebensraum? It's not totally a military topic, I know.
I already posted this in chat but anyway, Video request: One thing I absolutely cannot find any detailed information on is combat casualties, what causes them (small arms, artillery etc.), percentage killed, wounded or captured, the average death rate for a combat soldier (taking into account tooth and tail ratios) and what casualties (especially killed) would be expected, for example, a platoon or company assaulting an enemy held position. The impression one gets from film and TV, even from the more realistic films and series like Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, is seemingly constant death, men falling left,right and centre, which simply isn't true. Finding about about the truth, I think at least, would make a good video.
Is there any way to find out the German estimates of US or USSR production capacity? I've read the US produced HALF the war materials, but not sure how to grasp the logistics of that.
You should also say few words about German-occupied Poland where Polish resistance introduce program called PPP "Polaku Pracuj Powoli" - Pole work slowly. So every Polish citizen forced to work for Germans should work as slowly and as badly as possible, without putting himself or others in danger from Germans supervisors.
@@nat1bott Yeah Hollywood films gave you typically I would say ~10% of actual casualties. Before D-Day 101st Airborne Division have 8,400 men. Wikipedia state that during WWII 101st suffered:
Casualties
Total battle casualties: 9,328
Killed in action: 1,766
Wounded in action: 6,388
Missing in action: 207
Prisoner of war: 967
So 21% killed and 76% wounded
"Future dictators, liberators, however you see yourself..."
You funny today Bernard 😊
Coal is not always the same. Lignite (brown coal) has a low calorific value and blocks boiler tubes. Power stations built to burn lignite were used in Germany. However, you would not use lignite in a steam engine by choice, as there would be a massive loss of power coupled with an excessive maintenance burden. Germany was forced to use lignite in some steam engines.
The manufacture of concrete requires large amounts of power. Germany with its Festung Europa, must have burned through incredible amounts of coal, that otherwise would have served its war industry.
That joke about "excellent bureaucrats" really made me chuckle. Great video!
mensch1066 oxymoron that is
@@skalderman Not really. Do actually read wages of destruction to see what Tooze actually claims and i think proves.
@@skalderman Try running a country without them. Bureaucrats are essential. Not just Governments but for instance Insurance companys and Banks.
Comparing what the UK accomplished with what Germany accomplished industrially in WW2 shows the difference between excellent and kind of okay bureaucrats.
@@ianwhitchurch864 Bureaucrats simply reflect what their Political Masters want. They hate each other but if you attack one they will all stand rank upon rank to defend each other.
Police Bureaucracys are dangerous. The Tsar of Russia had an enormous and very advanced Police apparatus. Who came to the conclusion that we run the place why not take it over. The US ,CIA is getting close to being a Police State like Aristocratic Russia.
It is they who keep Julian Assange in his torture cell!
This is actually a very good question.
glad you tackled it.
so basically Factorio on crack?
yeah, Factorio is a good example, where one can easily see that even with a very basic system with no-one else involved in a matter of minutes everything can go to shit, once there is a problem somewhere in the production cycle.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized That problem usually being a shortage of some resource
@Tiagra 12, well in some cases, it is also one assembly machine taking away one resource faster than another one, my problems often resulted from in-balances that were created once I expanded the system.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Can we prove this out in HOI3/Black Ice ...???
Love your content! Very nice to hear well balanced sourced material. As a History Major who graduated in 1983 ( yeah, I’m old), soooooo many important sources were not available at the time. ( Cold War agenda, Ultra only recently declassified, etc.) I became an electrician ( economic reality), but I’ve tried to stay current with 20th century military history. It’s very refreshing listening to history being presented in such concise, coherent short packages! Joining your patreon, keep up the wonderful content! (Sorry for rambling....)
when you actually realize how inefficient they were its amazing they were as successful as they were
We find the same situation with Japan, in the East. Manchuria was built up by carefully Japanese bureaucrats. Meanwhile, in China proper (ex-Manchuria), resources went to waste--power stations were left dilapidated in many cases, and there was very poor administration of occupied China (illustrated in the excellent history book Collaboration, by Timothy Brook). The experience in SE Asia was often the same, depending on the territory. Interesting parallels there.
Unlike many occupied countries, Norway benefited from German occupation (1940-1945), as the Germans, as part of the war effort, greatly improved infrastructure.
Sort of the same here in Denmark. However, they built it, and we paid for it. The Danish part of the Atlantic wall was constructed by Danish companies, for taxpayer money. They occupied us, so pretty much the entire state apparatus continued to be on Danish hands, including the political system and the police. It was first in August 1943 when the collaboration politic broke, that Germany went from occupying us, to - how to put it, mildly annexing us.
So in that sense, we actually had two invasions during world war two. The first on April the 9th, where Danish and German soldiers exchanged fire and killed each other, and the second, on August 29th, 1943, where Danish and German soldiers once again exchanged fire and killed each other. On that same day, most of the Danish fleet sank itself. hereafter Nazi Germany introduced a state of military emergency. So, in war games, trying to go historical, there should be two invasions of Denmark.
As part of the collaboration politic, Denmark supplied nazi Germany with a lot of horses, in the hundreds of thousands. And we also supplied Nazi Germany with around 15% of their meat consumption. Because in this country we are effective in producing food. We were forced to collaborate with them. So, for instance, those 1500 allied aircraft, shot down in danish airspace, well, danish radar personnel participated in guiding the german interceptors to their targets.
@@ThePRCommander People don't like to admit it but most countries had far more collaborators than resistance members. But that makes sense self preservation is a human instinct and conducting a guerilla war is mentally and physically taxing and extremely dangerous. Also you're totally right I was amazed when I learned that about Denmark its fascinating HOI4 with black ice simulates the Danish collaboration and its really cool.
@@bigvinnie3 Great mod.
@@ThePRCommander yeah its a really good one lol. total war was good too
Loool "in Austria there was no language barrier" - Entschuldige lieber Bernhard - da hab ich so lachen müssen. Hab als kleiner Bub am Bauernhof in der Weststeiermark für die deutschen Feriengäst übersetzen müssen. Spaß beiseite - echt super Thema!
Wir Vorarlberger verstehen fast alle Dialekte, außer die urigsten entfernten, aber wenn wir wollen, vastoht üskoana oda epa doch?
There's a language barrier between my city of Bristol and the city of Cardiff - and we both speak English in our own unique ways, despite being only 20 miles away (and in another country). From what my mother told me of her trips to Germany (foreign language student) dialect was extremely important - to the point where some Germans assumed she was German but from the rural south and actually warmed to her more when they find out she was English.
Though obviously this is 99% a verbal issue.
Excellent insight, great video.
13:10 I dont't think the french in general were especially motivated to produce weapons for their occupiers. Employee motivation is often a factor that is overlooked we looking at the effectivity och production.
French would be fine as all humans. Motivation?
I've always wondered about this. Thanks for this video.
Yet again, another lesser talked about subject, well researched.
I needed this,
I have been planning my liberation of Canada for 25+ years.
Knut for President in 2024 !
G'day,
Ah, Hoppergrass...
Kanadia is currently preparing to march into, and punitively occupy the Smoking Wreckage of whereinat the Excited Status of Norte ArmedmeriKano used to be, following the 47-cornered US Civil Waauuugh (!) 2.0 ; which the Russian Quisling (Puppet) Prissydunce is currently working to ignite.
You will need to be lucky to survive the Balkanisation, and if'n y' do manage that ; then you'll eventually die-off in a Global-Warming Remediation Work- Camp..., trying to undo the mess which AmeriKans have made before their Nation implodes.
Such is Life.
;-p
Ciao !
Your getting my vote
We have a nut already!
Superb analysis.
you should make a video like this BUT of Japan occupation of Korea and Manchuria. I have read that the Japanese had an aircraft factory in Manchuria along with the Mukden arsenal but it is really hard to find any info on the Korean peninsula. I think the Japanese did not have any plane, tank or shipyards in Korea and they had that place since the early 1900s! I think all the war production was in the Japanese islands and that is insane since all the natural resources are in mainland Asia so they had to ship raw materials from Korea and Manchukuo to Japan and once the US submarines got in the Japanese waters it was all over.
The Japanese had huge production mines and Factories employing 10M Chinese who migrated to the are from all over China to work. Biggest Migration in human History!
In the west, different breeds of cattle are used for milk and beef, the Soviets never understood this, having bad beef and inadequate milk
Hey man, thank you for that excellent video on industrial integration.
excellent topic, thank you
A fascinating glimpse into a topic that virtually nobody else outside of book and academics has looked at. Context is everything and everything matters, details matter in war industries.
Combined with not going to total war footing immediately it really explains how little Germany was able to expand production of many things during the course of the war. Although again, given their resourse shortages, they would be unable to go past the Winter of 1945 anyway.
A good and informative summary.
A related question: if you capture an industry e.g. producing KV-1, would you
a) keep it producing them,
b) or try to change it to produce Panzer IV,
c) or making some hybrid (KV with a German gun, optics, and radio)?
a) would be the easiest and most efficient, but it would make supplying your army more complicated and then there´s the training issue.
b) would be the most complicated and quite possibly looting would be easier and setting up a new industry in a safer place.
c) would be a compromise
I'm guessing ze Germans would just keep the production constant, assuming resource availability.
I imagine it would be difficult to continue production as the supply lines have flipped on the "axis" of the front line, not to mention transporting raw materials and assembled components would be difficult and drain resources from the soldiers on the front. Also you need to capture a fair amount of the original workforce in the factory who most likely would've fled further into Russia. Given all this it would probably make most sense to loot it and burn it after.
Usually the factory would be abandoned before capturing it, so making your new workers to manufacture unknown equipment would be no sense.
>implying the Germans would ever capture any soviet industry before it was took to the Urals good joke
A very good question. I suppose a better example should be used instead of KV-1. Say a French Tank, or Poland truck... We know Nazi re-used captured French Tank for some other purpose but really not sure if they kept the existing factory running.
This video deserves more views
Great video :) keep up with great work!
I've just read Stahels Operation Barbarossa, losses of manpower, horses and motor transport in 1941. must have had a great impact on German economy.
Very interesting! This video shows the real problems.
Splendid.
More actual numbers from preoccupation production to after the occupation production would have been great here. As this is one of those interesting questions about WWII considering the Germans had most of the industrialised central Europe at their disposal and yet usually we hear more about the transfer of the Soviet industry rather than how Germany actually used their resources.
"excellent bureaucrat is actually a contradiction." awesome
Thanks. These notes will be very helpful in liberating those silly South-Dutch and curing them of this silly idea called Belgium.
On a related note.... Got any spices?
Blah b with what army?
We cant even pay for winter clothing when our marines go to norway for exercises and we shoot not with bullets But by screaming bang bang.
I've always wondered about this subject. In HOI4, when you take over a territory you automatically get their resources, civilian and military factories to immediately use in your own war machine. I always wondered how this would work in real life. How long would it take Germany to fully integrate Belgium and Dutch factories to play a direct role in the production of German war materials. Was full integration possible?
NL and Belgium had colonies and were largely dependent on them.
hoi4 does not make much sense overall...(yeah, i do not like hoi4) that aside, hoi2 (and the successors AOD and DH) set ic to zero after gaining the province, only after a while would it increase to a level much lower than the maximum efficiency that national provinces have, in essence you would never be able to gain full use of those ic which is much more realistic...
now as for how long it would take to fully integrate industry of Belgium and Holland? that answer is more than 5 years they where occupied as neither where used to anything like maximum capacity(iirc from my books ive read over the years), even the military associated industries where not run due to the resources where put into the mainly German industries, even late in the war they barely supplied anything of note to the war machine...
even in nations that where pro-german like denmark, the industries never regained their pre-war efficiency during the war.
Ok another reason to stick to hoi1 core 0.95.
Hoi4 isn't particularly accurate. However, the new compliance system does attempt to take these issues into account. The main things HoI4 is missing to have a more accurate representation of the various situations are food, coal, supply chain composition (trucks, horses, trains, regional prioritization), and civilian consumption of resources (consumer goods factories, electricity [coal, oil], food). If you assign 10 factories to trucks and have a stockpile of tens of thousands, and plenty of fuel, you should be able to allocate those trucks to a supply region, for example, improving the supply transit in the region as it becomes more motorized and less horse dependent.
@@Sapoman2211 And nowdays HOI: Germany has infinite manpower and industry that can beat the US. In 1941 Germany alone can win the whole world war. I wish it was in real world...
Related to this is the way the conflicting goals of the slave labor program undermined the economy. A forced labor system that was ALSO determined to punish and kill the labor force is self-defeating.
To give a context how much hard labor burns calories. I used to work a desk job. i could usually eat..one or two times a day. Now i work in a factory about 60-70 hours a week...and i eat about 6 times a day. Thats even with modern production. (note i have an extremely high metabolism).
YEs. I have always worked in the sun all day loading and unloading and i never ate more than three times a day and not even much more. People completely misunderstand how much calories a little labor consumes or difficult it is to 'burn' them trough light factory work.
In the Netherlands the Nazi's stole the largest portion through the Dutch National Bank. The Netherland had kept their own currency which fact the Germans used to force the National Bank to print extra money for them. With this money the Germans bought goods and services in Netherland. The Germans were so nice to compensate this with a debt in Reichsmark to keep up the resemblance of a normal international economy. However the Dutch National Bank was not allowed to collected those debts until after Germany had won the war. And even if the bank could have gotten Reichsmarks during the war the Dutch would not have been allowed spent those in Germany to import goods back. After the war there was no Germany or Reichsmark economy, so those debts became worthless. This was one of the reasons the Dutch economy got flooded with guilders and only the rationing, fixed price system prevented hyper-inflation. After the war those extra guilders had to be taxed away first before a normal, free economy could resume.
Another part of the monatary system consisted of cheaper production costs for money. Changing silver coins into paper and changing the small silver and copper coins into cheap zink, They made them squaere to have as less restmaterial as possible. A silver gulden comes into the National Bank, consisting of silver with a certain value. A paper gulden comes out, worth only a little piece of paper and ink and the costs of printing. Worth a few cent. The difference is for the one who prints it. Not bad, 2 cts of paper. 98 ct of pure profit. A form of tax, nobody feels. At least not in the beginning.
I like your humor. " Tips for dictators and liberators...". Lol!
Good video! Thanks.
In my opinion one of the better war history content creators. Did you study for this? Are you a historian?
thank you! I have a Master in Arts (History) and Master in Science (Computer Science), yet, had very few classes on military history. Depends on the definition of historian, for some it means doing mostly primary research (archives etc.). I use almost exclusively books from historians.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized I am not surprised. Your approach is very factual and well researched. I am an amateure warhistorian myself, since I was about 8, former infantry drill instructor studied psychology and now a martial arts style head and corporate trainer, very interested in de psychology of war and combat. So I look with those eyes to channels like this, sometimes with joy, like yours, Metatron and Chieftain, The Great war, sometimes with cringe at other channels.
Please do not lose the Austrian accent. It's half your charm. 😉
"... Future dictators (truthful) or Liberators (Political) ..." "Occupation taxes" ... " I don't think efficiency is the proper word here " How true.
0:30 aaah finally some very interesting content
Great video and topic. Please do more on topics like this. The thing that struck me while watching it was that this is one of the darkest chapters of the Nazi occupation of Europe. People starved because of the reallocation of resources to support the German war machine and the high standard of living in Germany This was done not only to keep the war machine going and the German people obedient, but also to punish rebellious populations, as they did to the Dutch after the Arnhem landings.
I have to say that this is simply an amazing video. Thank you for putting focus on a completely different aspect of the war than the usual military perspective. "For all aspiring dictators, future invaders or liberators..." LOL
What this makes me wonder about is how did Stalin do it? Yes, there was the lend-lease program, but everyone seems to downplay the value of it. And I could tip you on who you should be consulting, but I don't want to get political on your excellent channel. :)
He looks like Thanos again , am proud of that Beard.
0:31 *now you have my attention*
I also wonder - how much of the French labour productivity inefficiency was due to the shortages and delays created by the Germans themselves? Such as stripping machinery and workers from French factories, delaying shipments on the railway lines due to various German demands and fuel shortages that meant French factories simply could not operate.
Dictat..... Liberator..... Yeah, I'll be a 'liberator'
Seriously though, another great video, I was always fascinated with the idea of logistics during warfare
Why not both?
I got way too excited when I saw this.
0:44
*Grab notebook*
Yes Master.
Id always been led to beleive that industry under Speer increased productivity month on month till very late in the war.
Given the bombing campaign and constant loss of territory was remarkable in and of itself.
"Security issues"
Mark is a pair of bombs... hah... thatd kinda dark.
I think he had security and bombing attacks backwards in the tokens vs narration
Great subject, but I think there were issues that needed to be addressed. Transportation was and raw materials were big issues, but when discussing other country industry, the issues are which are needed and which aren't as they currently exist and for whom....the civilian or military operations.
Automobile factories making domestic or converted to make German vehicles...what factories needed to be converted to other or not normal production items?
11:50
That's not just French production of aircraft, but also the Dutch production!
So the increases and decreases in production were not linear but instead logarithmic or exponential?
I gave a like just for the little "joke" at 5:10
excellent materialist economics.
It really a far more potent argument then the orthodox standing.
I can see how making the French economy contribute to the German war effort would have been difficult. France had a large, well-established colonial empire that it was economically integrated with, and largely cut off from during German occupation. The French economy would have had a problem with largely the same resource bottlenecks as the German.
The german greed lost them in France.
Hello nice to meet you I'm French.
The French industry did not rely on its colonies except for cotton, rubber and sugar.
It relied on the vast amount of Coal and Iron ore available in the northern and eastern provinced, all annexed and ceased by the German economy.
The german economy ate all available resources and valuable factories for its needs to increase its own production at the expanse of the French one.
Finally, they didn't have enough food and resources to feed all its armies and allies (Italy and Romania mostly) so they used French workforce in compulsory work in fields whereas in Factories.
They lacked manpower to run their factories so they took all the mens from the fields to go to Germany to work in their new factories.
No food, no mens left. The French economy didn't exist anymore in 1942 barely supplying its needs in terms of food.
When they left, they destroyed everything they could (bridges, mines, factories and machinery they couldn't take).
In 1945 France was disindustrialized like a third world country.
Cheers
@@yc2673 right, thanks, that's good to know. I somehow thought France was as economically integrated with its colonial empire as Britain was, considering the size of the respective colonial empires.
Then the cost of occupation...I understand the German policy was to send
in 1% of the population to be controlled as occupation forces. The exception
was Yugoslavia where they used 1.3%. The forces sent in were mostly over-
age for military, allies or otherwise 2nd rate troops or police.
Bernard, explain all or this to the politicians who want to centrally plan the economy. I've lived through similar things and no war! Go free trade!
In relation to this, and very much related....
What the allied WWII bombing campaign eventually figured out, after years of trail and error, they began targeting the "highest impact on war production" , if there was something as simple as what does ALL German armaments require, they would bomb that.
But, what if there was a single and significant "thing", which if sufficient damage was caused, would hamper enough of the Axis war fighting industry, to be worthwhile?
People alot smarter than me gave great thought to this.
Cheers.
yeah, it's not like in hoi4 where your troops just walk over a factory, then you immediately integrate it into your guns production line and use it to churn out mp40s :D
So, hav you made the träns run on time?
America may have had Einstein but the German sciences paved the way for space travel
Was that the Stalingrad grain elevator in the thumbnail or am I imagining things
Yes
Yes, it is the grain elevator.
0:59
Hoi4 like "thats were your wrong kiddo"
This is frankly something I hadn't thought much of before; I knew that the Germans had captured plenty of enemy equipment, but the industrial and infrastructural side of things I had rarely considered.
If you could find Tooze's wage of destruction you will instantly know more than most. It really isn't that hard a read for people who want to understand what really determines history.
I don't think there was much language barrier in czechoslovakia, it was almost bilingual back then and culturally similar to austria
It would be nice to know some other numbers, since you compare the occupied french aircraft industry to the us aircraft industry, but what is the difference in 39 between the two, since the french aircraft industry would not be able to compete with the us one even if the war was only happened elsewhere.
YOU MONSTER GIVING ADVICE TO DICTATORS! Sorry... Didn't turn on my sarcasmometer.... You crack me up with your Sahara dry wit and detailed information. Keep up the good work so's I can get more smarterer.... GO LOGISTICS!
Video request: One thing I absolutely cannot find any detailed information on is combat casualties, what causes them (small arms, artillery etc.), percentage killed, wounded or captured, the average death rate for a combat soldier (taking into account tooth and tail ratios) and what casualties (especially killed) would be expected, for example, a platoon or company assaulting an enemy held position. The impression one gets from film and TV, even from the more realistic films and series like Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, is seemingly constant death, men falling left,right and centre, which simply isn't true. Finding about about the truth, I think at least, would make a good video.
Try S. L. A. Marshall's works, including Men Against Fire. Good books that s summarized the US Research and after action reporting from WW2 , Korea and finally Vietnam.
@@jeffreyroot7346 Thanks, I will look them up.
*"combat casualties, what causes them (small arms, artillery etc"*
In the war on the eastern front did artillery cause 45% of the casualties, 35% was done by heavy infantry weapons (mortars, machine guns), light infantry weapons 10% airpower 5% and tanks/armour 5%.
*"percentage killed, wounded or captured, the average death rate for a combat soldier"*
I guess that depends on what type of unit you are talking about. Losses among infantry might for example be higher than those for artillery so that divisions become more unbalanced as the war progress.
*"The impression one gets from film and TV, even from the more realistic films and series like Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, is seemingly constant death, men falling left,right and centre, which simply isn't true"*
Some battles are more bloody than others.
More Swedes died in the battle of Lund in 1676 than Americans in Normandy. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lund
2000 Americans died there, while both the Germans and the Russians suffered losses of 10.000 each every day during the battle of Stalingrad.
My guess based on nothing but gut feeling would say that 20% losses would be a rough average for most big hard battles. But I am sure there could also exist extreme cases when the losses could reach 80%.
For example did Paraguay lose 70% of its population in its war 1864-70, and basicly all its male population was dead when the war was over.
2:08 "Bombing attacks" _shows soldier_
"Security issues" _shows bombs_
Well, I suppose bombers might disguise themselves as soldiers, and a bombing raid would be a security issue in a manner of speaking.
Official looting is called requizitioning, no?
Yes. If they're polite about it, they'll give you a receipt and an IOU. Whether they'll honour the IOU is another question.
I like that in England is a corn and in America it's a grain. These distinctions based on time and location make even the same language is fun. Lol I wonder what equivalent the Germans use being a primary contributor to English language?
The entire re-armament process of the Wehrmacht and the industry was one huge mess. When the war started the German armed forced werent properly armed, the Navy was a fraction of the Royal Navy and the Army still relied on millions of horses.
Europe faced near starvation after the war do to the disruption of the agriculture over years of war from what I have found. It was not just occupied countries but the Germanic people as well. You hit on the reasons why in this video, The farms could not get food to market and the market buyers were thus rationed. Had the US not exported & distributed food after the war it could have been really bad for all europeans. It was one of the most humanitarian things done.
12:17 They should have sent 7777 to make the day...
Despite allied bombing Albert Speer in 43 increased production
Increased productivity with slave labour
Has autarky become a science now?
It's economically ineffective to occupy France.
Did the Nazis require the French to carry a yellow vest in their cars?
@@chrisderochwr4670 Nah they were more level headed than that.
Alexander Seven Your comment reminds of a story from a couple years back of a failing French tire factory. The French government tried to get an American? tire company to come in and take over the failing French plant. The head of the American company basically said, "No, we are not that stupid."
R. Blakehole
That reminds me of a post wwii German auto company. They asked American companies to take it over, they declined. They dodged that bullet. That garbage company was VW...
LogoSeven hmm.
Were there any attempts to get the unused gasoline out of abandoned or inoperable vehicles , tanks and aircraft ? I can imagine that they would have teenagers (Hitler youth) driving around in Kuble wagons with siphon hoses getting as much gas as they could . Was this ever done ?
Loved the "excellent bureaucrat" joke.
did France make tanks or other armaments for Germany after capitulation? French navy after British attack?
The navy was under Vichy control until 1942 when the axis wanted it and they scuttled it
Toozes book "The Wages of Destruction" was a real eye opener for me. Not only does it explain the economics of the war, it argues that the reason Hitler was attacking in the East was not that the Germans needed more space/lebensraum, but rather that he realised that without the resources in the East, Germany would have no chance in the (according to the twisted Nazi ideology) inevitable war against the US and its European allies, UK and France. The book is very heavy on charts, numbers and statistics, so it's not for everyone, it's not a light read, quite the opposite, but if you have an interest in economics (I do, I have a BA in economics), it is very highly recommended.
You really cannot call yourself a student of World War II if you havent read his book. The book also explains how Hitlers grand strategy depended upon the war against the SU being quick and decisive as he understood that they were GB's wild card. Removing them from the game and exploiting their resources would give Germany a chance to knock-out GB before the US could be a factor. The gig really was up when the SU survived the first year of the war.
In the bigger picture view, Germany never really stood a chance and really punched above their weight to get as far as they did. You read Tooze book talk about German government spending a few hundred million RM on one program or another or scraping together a couple hundred million pounds in foreign exchange. Meanwhile the US is rolling out one spending programs after another in the tens of billions of dollars like it was pocket change. The material shortages compounded by the supply chain/logistics issues affected just about every industry throughout the war.
@@dondajulah4168 Glad to see that at least three people in this comment section has read the book.
Thanks. I was getting the distinct impression that not even our host had had time to read the entire book and that certainly no one in the comment section did...
The problems with the number i think germans and france could produce much much more but axis didt had the fuel capacity to use them soo why produce aircraft if u dont have fuel for it.
Could you do this but about Japan?
probably, depends on the sources.
Albert Spears memoirs cover this question.
it is mostly a PR stunt, like many memoirs.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized I love my collection of German memoirs. Your Rommel and Guderian revisionist videos were mildly upsetting. Have you trashed Manstein yet?
Your point of view makes sense. If Goring had been allowed to write a book it would have been full of his bullshit too.
about Manstein, I added something in the end of the Stalingrad Break Out Chances video (that one from 2018 NOT 2016).
Besides that, I know very little about Manstein.
@@Erik-ko6lh Trusting German generals is a funny one especially since they lost the war and doubly so since they originally expected they would. People who read memoirs to understand history or to learn about people do not in my opinion understand all that much about people and consequently not much about history either.
@@pietersteenkamp5241 Memoirs are primary sources. Personal accounts. A good history will draw on a large array of primary sources. Take your favorite history book and look-up the citations. Grant and Sherman wrote excellent memoirs too.
So what did the Commies do in this area?
Are you Björn Iron Side bro?
Diary farms? Oh, dairy farms.
So many wasted opportunities. France had a very significant aircraft and tank production industry. Irrespective of the product design quality, the machine tools and labour were competent. They should have been retained intact.
But why France had just %4-5(same with Japan)of World’s industrial output at the time?During 1933-39 period France produced just about several thousands aicraft while Germany produced more than 8.000(about half is combat aircraft)alone in 1939.France had just a significant automotive industry.That’s all.
@@erichvonmanstein1952 wtf are you comparing a country that prepared war for almost a decade and a democratic country that wanted to prevent war at all cost and started to really produce military hardware by late 1938?
@@chuck1005 who had build giant fortifications next to border, hmm?
think one should compare french and dutch airplane production to what those factories did pre war. not compare to usa.
Hmmm, in September 1939 every second tank that invaded Poland was defacto of Czech origin. In other words thanks to the annexation of czechoslovakia Germany doubled its armaments
Lol 😂 look at my panzers in Poland video.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized I like your channel and vidoes and this is the first time I question your opinion. I checked your videos and cannot find this one you mention. Could you be so kind as to give me a link and with pleasure i will watch it.
ruclips.net/video/_1BmJ_GF97w/видео.html
yet, probably better, because there are the numbers for the Panzer 38(t) for Poland, France & Barbarossa: (And before you ask the Panzer 35(t) were not higher by a significant amount or even lower): ruclips.net/video/Um8mAhd__o0/видео.html
@@coldwarpoland2211 ruclips.net/video/_1BmJ_GF97w/видео.html
yet, probably better, because there are the numbers for the Panzer 38(t) for Poland, France & Barbarossa: (And before you ask the Panzer 35(t) were not higher by a significant amount or even lower): ruclips.net/video/Um8mAhd__o0/видео.html
maybe you should check your sources first! Because I very rarely state an "opinion", especially when it comes to hard data like number of tanks etc. for which we have records.
8:30 Not surprising, a major power which got partially turned into a puppet state.
Check coal production in europe 1941 1946
The Japanese invasion of Southeast Asia had probably even worse consequences for the local economies, which were tooled for export markets in the US and Europe. Once the Japanese took over, they had little use for those industries (other than petroleum) and the economies collapsed.
The biggest challenge to the German military needs was not enough fuel and lubricants to keep their equipment fully ready for action.
THE German economy didn't switch to a war time economy till 1944. Many Government departments fighting over resources with no inter cooperation to make those limited resources better used for their military needs. That is just a few of the reasons for their losing the war.
A good video on this topic.
12:30 not bad for the netherlands compared to the much bigger industry France: 40%..you cant say that netherlands aircraft (subsuppliers) industry was so much more collaborative than the french at heart...once the addressed factory came to an agreement to deliver..then french or dutch or belgian ...delivered.
No, this really tells the difference in EFFICIENCY (Fokker apparently learned from US style manufacturing, whereas the french (Bloch, lioré etc..) did it...the french way...
You still see that difference in company 'culture'today: Air France and KLM...
ODDBALL SOK we may not see it tho they become one company
When you talk about France do you mean the occupied France or Vichy France?
Did natural gas exist as a power source during the Second World War?
Large numbers of communities used town gas. Coal plus steam. About 30% Carbon monoxide. The problems with natural gas are drilling,pipeline transportation and storage. Large safe nonriveted pressure vessels were essentially new,electric arc welding was newish, and the idea of dropping the temperature down to cryogenic and storing the liquid in caverns( yes it really is done ) had not been created.
Natural gas takes a lot of very expensive permanently located infrastructure to be economically useful.
How much would you say were logistics responsible for war crimes in WWII? I give you two examples:
1) Nazis forcing people working to death, rather than either keeping them well-fed or killing them directly.
2) The fate of the 6th army division. Soviets were pretty much starving themselves and didn´t have enough capacities to deal with all the POWs.
EDIT: thinking about it, I´d say that Stalin would have had two other reasons to do so:
a) weakening Germany for a long time, by eliminating experienced troops and even more so commanders.
b) throwing a bone to the Soviet soldiers, who had suffered immensely under the incompetence of their leaders...
well, as mentioned in the video: there were different agendas and strategies in general, there was an "anarchy of warrants", etc. it really depends on what level you look, where, when, etc. Rather sure that there are several different schools on it, recently saw someone share a recent book on such a topic and some noted "isn't this the same the thesis of X".
Also any statement on it, is walking into a minefield. I am clearly not qualified to answer that question and even I would be, I would likely only due it with an academic article full of footnotes and like several years of work etc.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Thank you for your reply, though it makes me sad, that you´re scared of answering that question, due to ramnifications of some douchbags that can´t let others discuss history without turning it into current politics....
I´ve known a German that nearly had his fingers cut off by some youths, for the sins of his grandparents.
My grandfather was a Nazi and he killed a lot of Russians, but after the war and all the horrors he saw in it, he married a Slavic woman. he might not have been a good person as such, but his honest approach to his past and being able to get closure are truely admirable.
You seem to be mostly curious about the treatment of POWs by Germany and USSR. The thing is, Germany and USSR did not consider themselves bound by the 1929 Geneva Convention on POWs in respect of each other. Paradoxically, this situation satisfied both sides. First, it allowed them not to care about the prisoners, feed them, etc. Second, in the case of the USSR, it was used as a propaganda and morality boost instrument. The high Soviet morale later in the war was, to a large extent, caused by the soldiers knowing that capture meant starvation and death. And, vice versa, harsh treatment of German POWs in the USSR seemed to prove to the German soldiers that the Russians were "barbarians" with no honour and captivity meant death.
During the war, Romania numerous times tried to establish a system of helping its POWs in the USSR, they sent numerous requests to the Red Cross. The Soviet leadership just ignored all the requests on this issue, coming from the Red Cross.
@@edi9892 I don't think him being a Nazi by itself makes him a bad person.
@@jurisprudens Nope it doesnt. He was however most likely a psychopath and in any case he was petty criminal that put his personal freedom over any rules. He never tried to apologise for what he did in WWII, but he had the balls to admit that he wasn't the hero, nor the victim that was forced to run along but someone that joined them because of self-interest. That's what I respect. Also, his approach was far more productive and served peace more than those that hated the others for the rest of their lives or drowned themselves in self-pitty...
Hi Bernhard, I have a complicated question to ask you. What if the Wehrmacht waited until summer 1941 to attack the uk/try to gain aerial supremacy over the uk and the channel? And was this ever proposed to Hitlee/the OKH/OKW/Kriegsmarine? I mean germany, the axis and its occupied territories could outproduce the island of britain, right?
Germany was falling behind its adversaries in the arms race by the start of '39. Delaying the war would have produced even worse results for them. They were in a no win situation.
@@dondajulah4168 I didn't mean that but rather since the soviets gave germans oil and other important resources, couldn't germany and the axis just single handedly outproduce britain in planes and stuff and bomb them to submission or try to do sealion in 41 instead of barbarossa
@@KlausValk Germany could not come close to out producing GB once they were mobilized for war. The UK produced almost 5000 more aircraft than Germany in 1940 and then you have the US also providing them with thousands of planes on top of that.
As for Sealion. That was a pipe dream with no chance of success. The Germans were planning to use river barges to cross the channel which are not sea worthy vessels.
The channel would be filled with British destroyers, corvettes and torpedo boats so essentially open season on the invasion force . Whatever would have been able to make it across would be facing a well prepared and supplied British home army while the Germans would have to make due with whatever they brought with them.
Developing rockets was expensive in material and human labour from the SS Todz admissions unfortunately for the people who died making these god rest their souls
See what I would wanna know is what was Germany's gameplan for occupation before they crossed the Belgian border.
likely had "vauge ideas"
( sounds like us (iraq afganistan)) win first administer later.
Hey just throwing it out there why is any video about the Falklands have a toxic biased comment section compared to any other just saying btw I’m going down the train the fall ads belong to Argentina
The sad thing is, I had to click on the video to know which war it was in which Germany was exploiting occupied industries. It could have been either World War or even (to some extent) after the Franco-Prussian war.
In neither war did they need more industry, they needed more food in the First World War, of course equipment matters, but wasn’t such a deal breaker
@@looinrims They used occupied factories in Belgium and eastern France in WW1.
@@Nonamearisto undoubtedly but it wasn’t the lynchpin to success like in the world war 2
@@looinrims Germany had no success in either war. At least, not for very long.
@@Nonamearisto I didn’t say that, I said in either of them, exploitation of industry would’ve been the key to victory only in one, not the other