Is this the return of American Streamliners?: A Ramble About The FRA Long Distance Trains Proposal
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Nearly 100 years ago, overnight sleeper trains, best epitomized by the legendary Streamliners, were true household names, the epitome of long distance transportation, and symbols of American pride, but today not so much. They're constantly delayed, slower than flying, and simply don't get service to a lot of places like they used too. However, there are plenty of people out there (including myself) who absolutely love the long distance trains that survive under Amtrak, and with the FRA's long distance service proposal released last month to compliment the Corridor ID project, they could well see a new rebirth. Here, I ramble yet again about new proposed Amtrak routes and my give you all my thoughts about them. Some are the return of old classics, and others are new and off the wall ideas, but all of these routes deserve a fair shake and I hope as many of them can come to fruition as possible, but let's see which are the most realistic and which are just pipe dreams...
The Routes in Question:
0:00 Intro
4:01 Return of the North Coast Hiawatha (Chicago - Seattle)
7:06 Return of the Pioneer (Denver - Seattle)
9:10 Return of the Desert Wind (Denver - LA)
12:46 Return of the Floridian (Chicago - Miami)
15:33 Return and Extension of the National Limited (NYC-DFW)
19:18 San Francisco - Dallas/Fort Worth
22:00 Phoenix - Minneapolis/St. Paul... wait, what?
26:45 Billings - El Paso
30:58 Denver - Minneapolis/St. Paul
34:17 Denver - Houston (with a bonus ramble about rolling stock)
43:45 San Antonio - Minneapolis/St. Paul
45:58 Dallas/Fort Worth - Atlanta
48:20 Dallas/Fort Worth - Miami
51:05 Houston - New York City
54:39 New Orleans - Detroit
57:20 Conclusion and what Amtrak should look into.
Background footage is my own works, used photos belong to their original photographers and artists.
For those interested in the Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority, here's a link to their site. Give them some love. www.bigskyrail.org/
This is something the US desperately needs! Amtrak is a great alternative for the increased inconvenient and expensive nature of driving and flying. 😊
It “desperately needs” it? What do you base that on? Who actually “needs” this? Amtrak ridership keeps going down, not up and its infrastructure is arguably far worse today than it was 20-30 years ago. In fact, it pretty much has none outside of the NE Corridor. These proposals are going to finally bankrupt Amtrak because they’re failing to address the actual transportation needs of this country.
What Amtrak needs to do is invest in high speed services between major cities that would be 4-6 hours between each other, and overnight services between cities that would be 8-10 hours in length. Shorter routes increase predictability in services, reduce delays, and increase ridership while keeping investments down to palatable levels.
I’m in the railroad industry and worked during some sad times in the industry. This is GREAT NEWS for our industry. I always felt that passenger railroading, commuter, and long distance would be reborn. And now, I’m witnessing it.
And this time hopefully it wont go away again
I really hope Amtrak takes the Sleeper Pod idea seriously and introduces them as an option, it would work so well for their long distance routes. They could fit more bunks on a given car, and the accommodation could be cheaper than the current roomettes. Maybe they could even have a "super budget sleeper" that doesn't include meals and is only a little pricier than coach.
I like this line of thinking but the old slumbercoach layout is more practical for multi-day trips. There aren't enough lounge seats for all the pod passengers who want someplace to sit!
Almost all of the European sleeper trains run from 8 PM to 8 AM, whereas Amtrak America sleeper trains usually run 24 hours, if not more. Those pods might work in Europe during the night, but in America the pods will not suffice during the day. Many Americans find roomettes too tiny, the pods would be coffins. As it is even Europeans are finding pods coffins...
@@ronclark9724simple solution (with enough funding) is to have multiple observation/lounge/cafe cars on all the 18+ hour long trains for people to hang out in during the day.
I follow your logic here, but I do think there's still a market for it and people will take it up as long as there's a cafe car / sightseer lounge to stretch your legs in. Routes like the Silver services and the Lake Shore Limited would be perfect for the bunk/pod layout. I know myself and a sleeper train trip in a bunk like the Nightjets sounds kind of cozy and nice, especially with my laptop and some movies to watch, I can't be the only person who feels that way. I see what you mean though, it might not be for everyone and larger accommodations should definitely still be made available, especially for accessibility purposes. @@ronclark9724
@@ronclark9724it's a shame most European citizens can't afford to ride them because they make next to nothing.
Most Americans think there's are no trains even when there are. They'll wait three days for a flight, or worry about driving a rental car long distance, when there is a twice daily train going exactly where they want to go.
They are no trains worth using yet
Amtrak really needs to do something about ticket price, its almost always twice as expensive as flying while taking five times as long to get there.
However, every night on the train is one LESS night at an expensive hotel whether driving or flying. If you flew there in hours instead of a day, you would most likely spend another day and night there. If you are in a hurry and do not wish to see America, FLY. But if you are not in a hurry and do wish to see America, ride with Amtrak. Nothing beats Amtrak prices riding in coach for most of Amtrak's rural small town stations...
Agreed. It needs to offer different product classes. My suggestion? Offer capsule bed/rooms like in Japan and Europe... Even the new overnight ones in Germany have this as an affordable option... It really needn't cost more than $50 for the entire trip if you ask me...
@@ronclark9724Sorry, but no.
NYC to LA costs over $4000 each way for a bedroom.
@@stickynorthWhere in Japan or Europe do you see rail services that span 3000 miles?
@@ronclark9724 Rural small towns depend on Amtrak if they're lucky enough to have it.
Wanna try and land a 737 in Hinton, West Virginia? 🙂
Denver to Houston would be great because there is no competing Interstate highway along most of the route.
Perfect for a Shinkansen service
@@qjtvaddict Too far for HSR, whose sweet spot is around THREE hours train journey no matter the speed of the train. If you are going to spend TRILLIONS building HSR, it better win the passenger battle with the airlines, otherwise why bother?
The former Burlington Texas Zephyr, a train I fondly remember during the Christmas holidays riding on the ski train from Texas to the Colorado Rockies... While US 287 and US 87 mayo't be interstates, they are divided highway along this former Burlington route...
Actually, the better route would be Denver to Houston as an overnight service. At roughly 800 miles, it is IDEAL for it. There are already plans for HSR connecting Dallas to Houston, which would finish out the trip.
@@ronclark9724that’s BS it has no competition speed closes the distance making the service worth it
The North Coast Hiawatha route would pass through Glendive, Montana. Offering access to Makoshika State Park which is really an underserved hidden gem that if given the chance, everyone should go see.
couldn't agree more, Bryan
@@BigSkyPassengerRailAuthorityWell, this channel must have some reach for y’all to make it here.
I hope the cities of Minnesota get reliable passenger service soon, as someone from another state whose cities are largely deprived of passenger rail (Georgia).
I am so happy to see more lines going into salt lake city (pioneer and desert winds). Now if we could just get the train station there ready with the Rio Grande Plan! Thanks for another great video.
yup agree
I should mention that the Sunset Limited is going to be rerouted back to Phoenix.
Good, because Maricopa is 30 miles S and in the middle of nowhere.
I'm sitting at my breakfast table, sipping on my coffee, and I'm fantasizing about all the trips I could suddenly take north, south, east & west from my home in Missouri.
I hope I'm whizzing past cows and farmlands while sipping on coffee soon. Excited to see any or all of these new services come to fruition.
we resemble this remark, kiki!
Comment for Al's go-rhythm so this can be more widely viewed.
New Amtrak Long Distance service could be a huge upgrade for Amtrak service. So many states and cities have absolutely nothing to go on with rail because they don't even know what taking a train is like, or maybe they did but only saw Amtrak LD services that were cut in the 70s - 90s with serious issues. Giving states new federally funded rail service that can't be tanked by car-brained DOTs and state legislatures can start to drive demand for rail and put pressure on the state to go further. I will be very happy to ride the revived Floridian and Hummingbird trains as well as 3C+D and hopefully a future corridor service for Cincy - Louisville and Cincy - Chicago.
Buses are more frequent and useful. Why not build dedicated tracks if you want trains? Only way to bypass carbrain is HSR and intercity feeders and regional branch rail lines to serve rural areas like a long distance version of the crosstown lines in urban centers globally
@@qjtvaddict HSR has a sweet spot of around a THREE hours train journey no matter the speed of the train competing for passengers with the airlines WORLDWIDE. Most people beyond THREE hours FLY, or drive...
For the North Coast Hiawatha, I've though of either dropping the Hiawatha to avoid confusion with the Hiawatha as long as there is no "Midwest Corridor" designation or Republic to give the Empire Builder/Republic a similar banner name like the Silver Service between Chicago and Cascadia. I've also thought of the Sierra Service as a rename of the Coast Starlight and Daylight restoration with a second service along the San Joaquins route and/or via Bend and potentially Yakima
Steve, we so appreciate your thoughtful and informative videos and commentary!
Thanks for watching! I'm wishing you guys all the best in bringing back the North Coast Hiawatha! Montana and North Dakota deserve a good train service, and I can tell you and your team see that! Definitely want to head out there on the North Coast Hiawatha one day in the near future!
we will send you the details about our annual meeting Friday June 7th (the day after the FRA LD Service Study Meeting) and perhaps you can come ?@@SteveGettingAroundPhilly
@BigSkyPassengerRailAuthority I'd love to see it, though distance may be a concern living out on the East Coast. If there is a way to watch online, that would be great, but I'll see if I can find a way out there, though I do question being able to as it stands.
cities and towns need to increase in density, walkability, and mixed used zoning by ten times in order for these routes to see any inkling of success
I just finished your video and have to compliment you on a job very well done. One item I think you may have overlooked is the potential addition revenue from European tourists being able to use a rail system they may somewhat recognize. Especially if they are reluctant to tackle long distance travel via automobile on American roads. As Americans I think we often forget just how vast this country really is and that many of our states are the size of some countries.
Would definitely agree there. It would certainly make it a lot more enticing for tourists of all stripes since good transport systems can benefit visitors the way it can locals. It's true for a city transit system, and it's true for long-distance trains, too.
as one of those european tourists i 100% agree. when i visited canada last year i only checked trains. it’s definitely something we just default to doing even when abroad
definitely agreed. I'm American and I know that the last thing I want to do when I get to a city is go through the hassle and expense of renting a car. An extensive network of trains benefits everyone
The sleeper pod is an interesting adaptation. I would definitely try it out for my Long distance sleeping needs. During the day hours, time could be spent in an observation lounge. Also, the frequency of trains on a 12 hour cycle would definitely increase ridership., and I totally champion the use of new routes to include Cincinnati’s beautiful art deco museum station. Lastly restore the Sunset Ltd to its original route, and cheers for the Detroit to New Orleans, and the Floridian routes.
What if the coach seats were sold out, that observation or lounge car seat may not be available... Could you ride in your pod. or should I say coffin, during the day?
I don't think that pod we be popular facing that way. They should return to the bunk style with 3 levels.
i greatly loved your detailed deep dive into the future routes amtrak has cookin in the background. i cant wait to ride these new routes when they come online
Amtrak MUST bring back the SLUMBERCOACH!!! without plumbing is ok, since I understand that was their downfall. But we MUST have a cheaper sleep accommodation than the roomette! A huge number of us cannot sleep in coach seats.
The California Zephyr does not serve Des Moines. The closest it gets is Osceola, a much smaller town of about 5,000 people 45 miles south of Des Moines.
Ah yes, thanks for the correction. Kind of like what Maricopa is for Phoenix at the moment. Hope that this can mean at some point that it can be rerouted to directly serve Des Moines, since that seems to be what's indicated on the map, but we'll wait and see I guess.
It’s hot garbage and should be replaced by HSR and intercity buses and strategic state sponsored local trains.
@@SteveGettingAroundPhillyunfortunately not happening on the Zephyr. That would require using the Iowa Interstate Railroad, which has spent years blocking the Quad Cities service to Moline.
@@bradyolson4690 unfortunately IAIS can't see their nose to spite their face... the $ millions Amtrak would bring in track & infrastructure upgrades would easily offset any inconvenience to their modest freight traffic. The Rock Island easily operated five times the trains over the same line, even into their death rattle in the late 70's!
Another change that needs to be made to have this be a realistic consideration is to extend service westward to Des Moines... running at least 2 trains daily each way would make this route attractive to potential riders...
The biggest obstacle to this plan is the State of Iowa itself, which cannot even prioritize education & ranks at the bottom for defficient bridges in the nation!
The "Great Plains Rocket" is a perfect name!
Reviving the "Golden State" name for the California train is also a great choice...
I feel like if we had these trains back and these new ones, it would probably benefit a lot. Heck, possibly bringing back streamliners never operated by Amtrak. Also as someone from Chicago, *we need the Floridian back*
I mean Amtrak did operate GG1s at one point, but they weren't exactly glamorous by that point
@@gonzoengineering4894Not with that flat black paint job
It's incomprehensible that there is no current service to Las Vegas. For one thing the drive from LA can be a real nightmare at times and the highway gets choked up, but most importantly, Las Vegas is one huge tourism destination where you definitely don't need or for that matter want a car when you get there, making a train very appealing. They could even just add 3 or 4 coach cars to the end of a long-distance train consist to shuttle them between LA and Vegas to meet the short-length trip demand. Not to mention, a route through Chicago-Denver-Vegas-LA is the most obvious solution instead of through Salt Lake City. Unfortunately thinking outside the box has never been an Amtrak attribute.
FTR, I just took the Southwest Chief last week and the lounge car was 100% table seating vs the sideways single seats. What a TERRIBLE configuration - in most cases a single person would be sitting by themselves hogging a table for four, and usually reading or working on a laptop not even looking out the window. 🙄 Who makes these stupid decisions...? Probably some executive who flies everywhere they go. 😑
BTW, I did appreciate the higher speeds out West. The track quality going through Kansas is B R U T A L.
does LV even have a rail station? tho there's that brightrail west HSR into CA.
How do you get from Denver to Vegas without going to Salt Lake City, or at least Provo?
@@jimc5694 You don't. There's an old UP line (at least there was) from Provo to Lyndall (sp?) south of SLC. But ignoring a place as big as SLC would be a huge mistake.
Several things to say for this video:
1. I actually think the billings to el paso route is even better than you'd initially think. The Denver-Albaquerque-el paso corridor is a massive connection on its own, and can also pave the way for more daytime corridor trains too. Also it might have some pretty incredible scenery too.
2. I'm in favor of a new superliner replacement to be a single level car. IMO its past time due for amtrak to try and create a national standard for their long distance cars from a logistics standpoint, and from an aesthetic standpoint I'm very curious what a new observation car would look like for that design, and I'd like to see an observation car on all the eastern routes as well.
3. I almost forgot, but I totally agree about 12 hour service patterns. I really hope that we can start trialing that sort of service on a few of the more popular long distance trains that currently run, and slowly phase it in throughout the national network. It would be a total game changer if every single station had a minimum of 1 daylight train in each direction.
The other component to this is prioritizing passenger service so these trains can operate on time... people will not use them if they can't make connections or miss important events because their train ran several hours late!
Shorter routes could also help
That way it's not disrupting freight.
But then I know in many places BNSF is maintaining a third main that could expedite passenger travel
To point 3: there just isn’t demand for this. Trains would run pretty empty.
@@timnewman1172Amtrak can’t prioritize a thing as they don’t own any rail outside of the Northeast.
By only running daytime trains with routes of 12 hours distance performance would improve.
AMTRAK CAL runs 4 or 5 daily from San Diego beyond Santa Barbara that run with freight and local commuter trains very successful.
You run short trains and add more cars as demand increases
The sleeper pods are a great idea for true night trains, but i can't imagine being cooped up in one for two days on a long distance train. We already had a solution, let's bring back the slumbercoach.
Not a bad idea either. The slumbercoach was definitely one of those ideas that was a genuinely good idea but just came too late the first time. Maybe this can be its chance to truly shine like it should have!
Thanks for going in depth on this topic. I hope at least a few of these routes will become a reality. Your channel is criminally underated. Thank you!
What I would like to see is a commitment to create an Interstate Rail System that would allow 125 mph intercity service along existing Interstate corridors where traditional routes would be too slow or over-crowded with cargo traffic. At that speed day or night service could cover most of America from a handful of regional hub cities i.e. Los Angeles, Seattle, Denver, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, New York... This would also get around the major hurdle to building new rail (property ROW acquisition) as Texas and California are soon finding out...
I'll be taking my first longer than 1 hour train trip this year. A roomette on the Silver Service about 1,000 miles. I'm super excited!
Sounds like a great trip ahead! Hope you enjoy it!
My main area of interest is the Houston-NY proposal, since not only does it connect many Appalachian communities that could benefit from a return to passenger rail service, it also comes closest to my hometown in Georgia, which hasn’t seen any regular passenger rail since 1971 being on the _City of Miami_ that was cancelled in favor of the _South Wind/Floridian._ Even though we won’t get direct service (Opelika, AL and LaGrange, GA would be the closest stations, and each is at least a half-hour drive away), it’s still good for the state as a whole, and may counter the effects of staffing our state government full of NIMBYs unlike North Carolina and their state-supported system.
I sat down and listened to this over one hour piece. Sure, it is called a rant, but it was well put together and thought out with some great ideas. The names for services were creative (my favorite being the Lakota and Black Hills). I feel very much more hopeful and the casual style of your video made it nice to listen in while doing my work.
True nightrains do not take 24h to go to their destination, they tipically take no more than 12h. For example if ViaRail and Amtrak agreed, they could take the Adirondak and the Maple Leaf and make them run overnight, leaving and not stopping at any station in the middle except the relevant ones, leaving at 8pm and reching their destination by 8am. Much more useful, plus they could implement the sleeping pods for greater affordsbility
As a corporate traveler, I prefer rail travel over driving or flying. The reason is because I can work while traveling with plenty of room (using a sleeper room).
💯
How about instead of long-distance luxury trains, we have some "clockers" to use PRR terms. An engine, 3-4 coaches & a cafe car is more important than a twice daily train.
The proposed San Francisco to Dallas train should be called the "Twin Star" referencing the stars that appear on the flags of both states. If memory serves, the red star on California's flag is actually a bit of a nod to the "Lone Star" on the Texas flag.
I would also love to see a sleeper service cross the Gulf of Mexico's coast from Corpus Christi, TX to Fort Myers, FL; by way of Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, Tallahassee, Orlando, and Tampa. That's easily an 18 to 22 hour journey. It would be a huge draw for the scenic route fans and tourists as well as provide service to under served and rural communities. Call it the "Gulf Coaster" or something like that.
While an AutoTrain service between Chicagoland and Florida would do extremely well, along the Gulf Coast would also work well. Like from the suburbs of Houston direct to Sanford, FL... lots of tourist and business traffic between those two destinations along the I-10 corridor.
Also love the thought of pairing sleeper trains with a second day-side service. This could be easily trialed on the existing City of New Orleans... it's already a popular route that has fairly good on-time performance and is about 12 hours long so the timing fits.
interesting naming idea!
One corridor I''d personally like to see that wasn't mentioned is a Salt Lake City-Butte-Helena-Great Falls-Sweetgrass/Coutts line that could hook up the under discussion Edmonton-Calgary high speed rail that has seen new life breathed into it yet again. Then again it makes sense when Alberta will top 5 million citizen by next year and still has the fastest and youngest population base in the nation with housing prices 1/3 of what you'd pay in Toronto or Vancouver...
Thanks for this great breakdown of the FRA preferred routes plan. As an Albuquerque resident a north-south route connecting us to Denver and El Paso would be an awesome addition! Especially since I’m not a fan of the drives.
we are very optimistic about this too...
Really enjoyable ramble! I'm right there with you on the Broadway Limited!
I reckon many of these shorter city pairs should see frequent long distance daily service like an airliner would do on busy routes.
3 times a day to start, working almost like a long distance commute. It would help to have dedicated row for that in the long run.
In Portugal the current plan is to have long distance HSR trains running twice an hour along the coast serving all main cities, eventually connecting to Galiza. The new track will interlink with the old one allowing for current trains serving cities outside the mainline also to use the new track reducing overall travel times even for more regional long distance services.
So you see my point.
The problem is capacity and equipment. Last week I was taking the Auto train North from Sanford to Lorton. While we left 15 minutes early, north of DeLand we got word that the Amtrak train ahead of us hit a trespasser and there was a 3 to 4 hours delay while Law Enforcement did their investigation. We got held up later because of a priority freight and we had to do a crew change for a conductor because their shift timed out. Later we had electrical problems in Richmond and 20 minutes south of Lorton we ran out of fuel... We were supposed to be in at 10 am on Sunday but got in at 5 PM ..... people were not happy. Yes, we got a 200 dollar limited credit for a future trip but this is to be expected more in the future because people refuse to understand that railroads can be dangerous places and that passenger service runs as a loss no matter how efficient it tries to reinvent itself. Foamers and Politicians refuse to understand this.
I think Amtrak or a multinational subsidiary should take over the VIA long distance routes if PoiLIEvre cuts VIA (which is likely)
Also word on the street is VIA will be equipping half of it's Manor cars with Sleeper pods during the next refit to last until 2035, when they'll be cut or replaced.
The New Orleans-Detroit route is also more than likely actually meant to signify a New Orleans to Toronto route, as Detroit-Toronto is currently being looked at by both VIA and Amtrak.
where’d did you hear about the sleeper pod idea? Also Via Rail is probably going to be privatized with the HFR project being proposed to be so and even the Corridor service.
@@TheRandCrewsok
Wait... isn't VIA the Canadian's Amtrak technically?
@@TheRandCrews It's a public private partnership, not a privatization (although it can become one under Poilievre, probably Brightline North)
I understand the skepticism of the Houston to New York route. Connecting Knoxville and Chattanooga to Atlanta along with the connection to DC and the North East will be popular. We just need a chance.
Desert Wind and The Pioneer connect their cars to the California Zephyr in Salt Lake City and Denver becoming one train east bound.
Last time I rode the California Zephyr it was still this way.
The year of 1994 was also a tragic one - three smokejumpers were among the 14 firefighters who lost their lives July 6 on the South Canyon Fire near Glenwood Springs, Colorado.
We slipped through Glenwood Springs the day it happened, but before the fire really got going.
Hello from Cincinnati. We desperately need a set of trains running parallel to I-75, from Canada to the southern tip of Florida via Atlanta. There is plenty of opportunity to get automobiles out of several huge bottlenecks along the way.
I know its not practical for all people, however i rode on the zephyr from SLC to Sac last year and many people were just sleeping in their coach seats. I also met a mother and her kids that were riding from Buffalo NY all the way to Oakland CA and the entire time they were just sleeping in the lounge/view cars on the floor. Multiple people sleep in there at night and at least for coach people the floor of the view car gives a nice place to lie down. Its a cost effective option bare minimum.
I’ve long thought that East Tennessee has needed an Amtrak connection. The area is very touristy with a lot of out state visitors. I’m particularly excited about such a possibility, along with the restoration of the Pioneer.
Just put the damn Dining Cars back on all the overnight-trains east of the Mississippi for crying out loud!
...how about making dining cars a private contract affair.
I suggested to Amtrak that they reach out to Door-Dash and UBER Eats but have received no response about my suggestion of December 2021@@c.d.porter9366
Bringing Barstow back as a hub would be a great step
Unfortunately, the Rapid City to Sioux Falls route has almost no intermediate traffic potential. Even I-90 is usually lightly traveled west of Chamberlain, SD.
Yeah, I-90's main busy stretches are basically Spearfish to Wall, and then the east Plankinton exit to the Minnesota border.
It would be really cool to see Amtrack cross the Missouri River at Chamberlain
@@MrPriebster The alignment of the Milwaukee Road line from Rapid to Mitchell had the out out service parts west of Presho railbanked, so it could be theoretically possible, and would be a more direct route between Rapid & Sioux Falls, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
@@MrPriebster - The tracks across the Missouri at Chamberlain end at Kadoka, SD, if not earlier. The proposed train would largely follow the route of the Dakota 400 through Pierre.
As important as an Amtrak service to Sioux Falls and Pierre and Rapid City would be, the Chicago Northwestern's Dakota 400 was cut back to Mankato, MN as early as 1960. Most of South Dakota is sparsely-populated.
There's a better cheap sleeper option than the pods. The Nightjet pod cars have 40 berths. The CRH2E-NG cars in China have 60 berths, and each person gets more room (your feet go into a tunnel that becomes the table of the next room).
As a bonus, they're 2 feet shorter than a Viewliner, meaning you could increase the height and upgrade each pod to be a lie-flat seat like an airliner. Replace the curtains with doors, cut back a few to put in an ADA pod, job done.
If you've seen the RFP Amtrak put out for their Superliner replacement, the idea is the "Solo Suite" but giving up the headroom so you can stack two of them. That also has an improvement that the seats alternate direction, so above where the feet overlap you have a lockable sliding divider, so they can flex between solo and paired passengers.
That means you don't need roomettes, and you kind of don't need LD coaches either (same number of seat pods as on an Amfleet 2).
also it may not seem like it but loads of people who live in Minneapolis/St Paul are snow birds and they go to Phoenix. Usually retirees. So its a good route because its pretty and the people riding it have the time to enjoy a longer trip.
Great videos, very informative. Railroads built this country, it needs to help rebuild it.
I worked for Amtrak from 1992-1997 Onboard Services LSA from Boston to CHI and many other places on the east coast..Went to station services in 96 and didn't like it...Anyway, I live in Ft Myers Fl now and they need Amtrak from Orlando to Tampa and then Naples. The tracks are there for the most part. Seminole and Gulf and CSX just north. It would remove so man cars off the roads and who wouldn't want to see it buy train...
I do wish there was a route planned from ATL to Charleston and Myrtle Beach via following I-20 to Columbia and then branching off to go down I-26 to Charleston and i-20 to Myrtle Beach.
Rural communities don't need sleepers, they need hourly service to the nearest larger town or small cities to create a virtual urban area that will attract residents.
Can definitely agree there. In my estimation, most cities and metro areas should have some form of frequent regional rail service to link towns and cities. The population is there, and a good service can draw in the demand that's been dormant for so long. My home state of Pennsylvania as a whole has unbelievable potential in that regard, and it's simply not being pursued, even though there are plans for rail service being brought back to the Lehigh Valley in the northeast of the state that could be a great cornerstone to build on, alongside SEPTA in Philly.
Should be a both-and situation because once the tracks are good, capacity depends on labor, fuel, and equipment.
@@kskssxoxskskss2189 I wonder state based rail corridors would be more plausible with Amtrak just complimentary to the state's service.
Thinking more like the UK's franchise system, but with its HS/ long distance service being the Amtrak's service, its stopper service being the State's long distance service, Rural (“Sprinter”) service being the Commuter and small town “skipper”. The general management would be by the state's DOT (but I imagine it could use a service operator like that of UK's contracted to provide the service) with FRA as federal coordinator of sort and wrangling with the freight companies.
40:24 all the doors on the multilevel cars work with high level platforms. At low level platforms they only open the end doors because that’s where the stairs are, but at high level platforms they open all the doors. Anyway, the real problem is that this setup only partially addresses the accessibility limitations of the superliners, because if you wanted to move through the train (other than from just the “end zone” of one car to the “end zone” of the next you’d still need to climb stairs.
Nightjet Viaggios are not entirely permanently coupled because their trains split and recombine during a single journey to serve different cities with shared segments. They are also sometimes coupled with other railway's cars for shared services (so a Nightjet may be mixed with a MAV train to Budapest, PKP to Warsaw etc). Having normal consists allows for changes in capacity between winter and summer or when there is a charter (a whole school booking on same train so Amtrak adds cars to it).
One aspect against the Superliner design as the ADA compliance, unless they add elevators in each car. You start to lose space and single deck like Viewliners an become easier for ADA. It also depends on what the current charging method for Amtrak using legacy freight railroads works. Is it still by the car, or by weight, or by train that fits within all sidings? Since the legacy signaling works by block, it doesn't make much of a difference if a train occupies 2 cars on a block or 15 cars, and as long as the trains fit within sidings, it doesn't matter if you fill 10% or 90% of the siding. But if the charging method is still by the number of cars, then double deck trains reduce number of cars you need.
I think Sioux Falls as a connection is a sleeper. Lived there for 3 years and it could definitely benefit from a service to surrounding cities. The city is booming right now with housing selling as it hits the market. Tons of folks run to the cities as they're fans of the sports teams from MN and it could also compete with the region jet service to MSP, since most all flights from Sioux Falls run to MSP, Denver, or ORD. Omaha is another big place of weekend travel. I think removing the 3-4 hour car trips to other cities with rail would be super attractive. Not to mention, you might see a fair amount of business travel as well. I used to travel the Dakotas for work and if I could've taken a train to Pierre or Rapid, I probably would've (if the timetable was decent).
I've thought about through car proposals on the Southwest Chief and changes to the Sunset LTD. One would be with the Front Range service where 1 or 2 trains go to La Junta and daily, with one joining the Chief to Chicago (including an extra train on the Chicago-KC section called the Kansas City Chief, then brining back the Ann Rutledge name and second trip for the combined Lincoln Service-MO River Runner while having both run 3-4 trains only to STL) in addition to daily service to Santa Fe or Albuquerque. In addition, I turned the Sunset Limited into the 2/day Acadian, with one trip continuing with the Texas Eagle to LA as the Sunset Limited
personally I would be more in favor of seeing all single level long distance trains with dome cars instead of the bi-level lounges on the routes where clearance allows, the 360° view afforded by dome cars just can't be beat
Same! Not to mention, the sleeper rooms on single-level Viewliners feel much more spacious due to the higher ceilings, and the ability to sit up along with the window for the top bunk is a huge plus.
Come on Amtrak - dome lounge cars for the win!
...the taller the car the smoother and more comfortable the ride.
I think you should name these trains the "Fantasy Flyer" as lots of pixie dust is going to have to be spread around the Class Ones for this to come about.
Your suggestion of a Billings, Helena corridor service is very interesting. However, I believe it should link the two largest cities in Montana, Missoula and Billings. Helena is in the middle of that route. That has the additional benefit of linking the three largest universities in the state.
Agreed there, and only makes the idea better. Kind of like the CorridorID route proposal for Ohio between Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati in that sense. Could be something I go more into detail with in the future, especially if I talk about more rural passenger services, even though I'd hesitate to call the major cities of Montana truly rural.
What about the return of Head End Traffic? I know Amtrak briefly experimented with their Railway Express concept, but I don't think it could get off the ground without more city pairs. Head End always paid the bills on long-distance passenger trains, and died when the PO yanked their contracts.
The US definitely needs more rail hubs like the one this proposal suggests but for regular day time trips. Think of the Chicago Hub ideia but for Denver.... Dallas.... Atlanta, allowing for daily commute between town clusters around those larger cities.
It would also help if the cities would desuburbanize themselves... but we can dream
The proposed lines are great, but it will require the following:
* Incentives for the freight railroad companies to upgrade their rails to accompany Amtrak & their intermodal trains.
* More Amtrak & regional high-speed exclusive rail lines.
* New Amtrak equipment, especially a bi-level replacement for the Superliners & Sightseer Lounge.
* New locomotives to complement the ALC-42s.
bi-level equipment is in the works, there's a request for proposals out online, it is very extensive (1000+ pages)
The only route I have a strong feelings about the name is Detroit -> Nashville -> New Orleans. That train has to have a music name! lol "The Music Star" or "Music City Limited" some thing Musical... I'll try to think of more!
Great video! I do think the first 5 you list are probably the most important, that gotta happen!
I like to ride the trains just to see the scenery and small towns.
When I was last in Pierre, SD the locals pronounced it Peer.
I would like to see the return of the Texas Zephyr from Dallas to Denver
Double track and 100 to 125 would be great because a lot of rail passenger trains in Europe and Japan that aren't high-speed are doing about half that. 100 to 125 would be good enough for Amtrak and VIA system-wide. (We need a train from San Antonio to Mexico City via Monterey and Tampico.)
100% agree there. It's possible in a lot of places too, especially in the Midwest and southwest too. Obviously for mountainous routes, track geometry is a serious hindrance, but a lot of lines have pretty long straight sections, and the reason the speeds aren't there is because of signaling and single-tracking (often in places that used to be double-track or better in the past, funnily enough). That's definitely a topic I want to delve into for the future.
@@SteveGettingAroundPhilly yeah, you can't do Horse Shoe curve at 100 safely, where they could it would be nice. Going from NYC to Chicago between 6.5 and 8 hours would amazing.
@@eottoe2001 well... they could rebuild or tunnel that section...
I really wish North America would adopt a railway agnostic approach and allow multiple operators to service the same stations and routes so that there is also variety in price points... In Europe as you probably know most nations now have an Ultra-Low Cost Carrier version of high speed rail as well as the Night Trains which offer more than just a traditional seat experience. That would be one of the fastest ways to get everyone to travel by train instead of plane for most inter-city transit...
Who told you they don’t? The US has no rules against this. In fact, most US cities’ rail stations are called “Union Station” because they had multiple rail companies serving them.
Near the middle you talk about passenger trains replacing coal trains on the same lines. I'm living in Austria and I'm reminded of the GKB (Graz-Köflacher Bahn) that goes back all the way to 1860 when it opened as a line to exploit coal mines west of Graz, Austria. Those mines are now closed and in recent decades the line developed into a commuter railway. It's currently being electrified (at last) and besides regular S-Bahn trains has a few freight trains serving local businesses, but those aren't the main focus any more.
42:25 That's no TV screen, it's a mirror. So you can adjust your hair in the morning before going out. Passengers nowadays bring their own mobile devices and all they need is electricity and wi-fi.
Thanks for explaining the various LD proposals! I hope that all of these eventually come to reality, as I'm most hyped for NY to Dallas along with St. Paul to Denver. In regards to LDs causing Amtrak to lose money, I feel Amtrak should only keep their LD routes to connect these larger cities, and encourage private companies like Brightline to run various intercity corridors inbetween the termini of various LD trains for quicker and more frequent service between popular corridors.
Also, nice to see that you utilize DaVinci Resolve as well, since I recognize the text and fades.
Those in the northeast find Amtrak as an alternative, whereas the rest of the nation from the west to the midwest and the south don't. Amtrak should though... Bring back the Rock Island Twin Star Rocket, Minneapolis to Des Moines to Kansas City to DFW to Houston, and surely the Burlington Texas Zephyr, Denver to Amarillo to DFW to Houston. These two along with the Pioneer and Desert Wind will solve many of the west and midwest Amtrak shortfalls of routes, open up much more of the nation for everyone. The south deserves more routes as well, but I am not as familiar with the rail routes down south. I kinda like the proposed DFW to Miami route through the Florida panhandle, fond of the Florida Wind.
These long distance services will kill Amtrak. They are solely political projects that will be absolute money pits. Only routes under 600 miles can be sustainable and useful, with frequent and reliable services. Link them together and you have transfer points for those who need to go farther. Rail CANNOT work as a point-to-point system. These routes can be done overnight or as high speed (or both) and can branch out from various hubs. They can also be built separately, each prior serving as proof of concept for the next. That makes investment palatable to tax payers.
For years, I've doodled on railroad maps, dreaming of an ideal national railway system. These ideas go beyond my wildest dreams. I live near Detroit and never thought of a Detroit-New Orleans train. BTW, call one frequency "The Pontchartrain", riffing off of the French heritage in both cities, the lake just north of New Orleans, and the fact that Detroit housed Fort Pontchartrain during the French colonial days (there is a Hotel Fort Pontchartrain in downtown Detroit).
It's clear a lot of thought is going into route planning and hard product (equipment and accommodations); now Amtrak has to do the same with regard to soft product (food, beverage, and amenities). Bringing back traditional dining nationwide is a must. I would offer regional specialties of the destination in both diners and cafes, rotated periodically in the diners so the menu doesn't get stale. Regional beers also would be interesting. Also would do TV with a selection of old and new movies and TV shows in the rooms to fill the time on the less-interesting stretches.
My middle and high school free time was basically doing the same thing. Old railroad maps were how I learned the geography of many states and relative distance between many towns and cities.
My dream is having observation cars for the Viewliners
If you look at the demand that Minnesotans and midwesterners have for phoenix its actually not surprising at all that they want to have attain service between the two, its almost similar to the Chicago - Florida service in that aspect.
I've long thought a seasonal Auto-Train between the Twin Cities and Phoenix would be great! Snowbirds being able to have their car without driving long days in questionable weather to get it there would be a huge selling point...
Hear me out for the billings - El Paso train: The Big Sky Limited
The U.S. needs a local and long distance high speed rail system. 250 mph trains long distance, 125 mph lines within metros (like North Houston to South Houston), subways and tram networks in every major city and town.
A Twin Cities-Texas train name to revive would be the Twin Star Rocket which could me modified to Twin Star Superliner.
Twin Star referred to it connecting the North Star & Lone Star States.
If any of these became a thing. I have so many trips I want to take to other Nerf clubs... obviously not happening in the now, but I could see the potential and places/people I could see through this, since I HATE AIRPORTS and would rather ride a more chill cross country rail service.
DFW-Twin Cities? The flagship train on that route was historically the Twin Star Rocket. Two paired cities-easy name.
Sounds good to me!
Future work must wait until current service must run safely.
It's ashamed I'm about to leave Florida because I know theres a lot of interest for the DFW to Miami route even if it's just mostly between Florida cities, including myself. If they can get a route running north south on the FEC line there's going to be a lot of users. But they are going to have to build a lot of stations though
I would like to hear more about your idea for a corridor service between Helena and Billings.
Man I wish I knew they also Included possible revival of Broadway limited. 🤕
I wish it was considered, but I guess that it's relatively low on the totem pole, since NYC to Chicago is served by two routes, and technically Philly is connected to Chicago by the Cardinal (the fact that it's slow and runs only three times a week notwithstanding). I can see it being considered a bit more if some of the CorridorID routes, particularly Chicago to Pittsburgh, come to fruition, but definitely nothing confirmed as of yet.
I think I might off gotten a name for New LD service that are entirely new 🚅 Sort off...
NYC-DFW: National Spirit
SF-DFW: Golden Spirit
PH-MSP: Ranger Builder
BL-EP: Shashone blazer
DV-MSP: Crazy Horse Zyphyr, OR Lakota flyer
DV- HU: San Houston Zephyr
SA- MSP: Great Firefly
AT - DFW: Peachfree star
DFW - MIA: Gulf Breeze
HOU- NYC: Pelican Southerner
NOR - DET: Pan- Amegacy
They said Boston to Portland Me wouldn't work. Haha funny look at it now, they have to add trains and they extended it to Brunswick. "The Downeaster" Incredible foliage train for over a month...I worked on the Top Dogs rail car serving coffee and crap, the day they signed the agreements .Best pay job I did. it took the F40 (which I could have taken) 7 hours to get back to Boston, it only takes a couple now.
If you've seen any of the "Santa Claus Express" videos filmed in Finland, they are able to quickly add double-decker motor vehicle carrying train cars, whenever needed. Which could enhance the potential ridership of the proposed Phoenix - Minneapolis train to become a 2nd Auto Train. But with better flexibility, to add or subtract vehicles & passengers at select midpoints along the route.
Also: the proposed Billings - El Paso long distance route is a repeat of a former (short lived) 1920's or 1930's era long distance train schedule between those same two cities.
Amtrak attempted to do a second Auto Train to Florida from the Louisville area serving the midwest and Chicago before. It failed to attract enough riders to be profitable unlike the east coast Auto Train that is successful financially. For some reason the midwest Auto Train didn't serve Chicago closer is why it failed. However running a Auto Train daily with just two train sets is limited by how far a train can travel within that day, and why it stopped near Louisville, not Chicago...
@@ronclark9724 The marginal condition of the rails prevented any kind of normal speed operation on either the Louisville Auto Train or of the Floridian passenger train. The entire route would need to be capable of 79 MPH when in motion. Thus capable of running further in one day.
I'd love a good DC to Houston route. I have to do that trip a lot when visiting my wife's family, and I don't especially enjoy flying.
I'm still hoping one of these days, they'll reestablish passenger service to Bangor, Maine (and beyond into Atlantic Canada), but I'm not holding my breath.
Would you prefer to extend the Crescent along its current route, or a new route through eastern Tennessee from either Birmingham or Atlanta?
@@ronclark9724 I don't know the routes well enough & haven't ever taken a train south of the DC area. But looking at the Amtrak site, if I want to go to Houston, they take me to Chicago first, and that just doesn't seem right. Looking at their map, there seem to be links from DC to Atlanta to New Orleans to Houston, which seems like a perfectly reasonable path, but I don't know how many train changes that has or what kinds of layovers that means.
Maybe if the proposed Southeast Corridor gets up and running, it'll make things a bit easier. I'd love to be able to get a roomette in DC and not have to change cars or anything between here and Houston, but if we got real high speed between DC and Atlanta, I'd be OK switching there and then heading west.
The US can be a trailblazer in that aspect though. There are few countries who are even big enough to concider long distance sleepover trains. You've got the transiberian, of course, and Australia provides a few long services, but those both few in number and like one train a month or something. China a has the Xinjiang HSR but and is building up a train through Tibet but that's about it. If the US can build a network that's frequent, extensive AND comfortable, it can be world leader in train infrastructure again in this specific niche.
The key to all of all this is cost to the passenger and consistency. If service was predictable to within an hour for longer trains and is as affordable as a plane ticket, many would probably consider it because the experience is better. Lastly, over time you want to see private companies like Bright Line promoted to overtake and expand routes from Amtrak. The government shouldn't be running these routes forever, but since we are here, if it rebuilds the network to where private companies take over, so be it.
The Service through Tehachapi Pass will be a game changer, There hasn't been passenger train service there in over 50 years!
And he pronounced our capital correctly. Thank you.
Denver to twin cities would be great, but the tracks in SD are laid out in an awkward roundabout way. It may have to skip Scotsbluff, which is the only big town in western NE.
Yeah, while in this video he suggests that you could do Denver to St. Paul in a nice evening to morning trip where you sleep most of the way, you're never pulling that off with this routing. This study estimates 26 hours, after track upgrades.
Yeah, it'd probably have to use the BNSF tracks from Sidney north through Alliance, which would mean going through Bridgeport. The stations in the Panhandle would probably be Sidney and Alliance, and maybe Dakota Junction since the RCPE line from Crawford barely misses Chadron. The only way they could get the Scottsbluff area would be for Amtrak to use the UP line that goes out of Pine Bluffs, which then leads to its coal mainline through Gering.
@@ryanspies6170 Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. If such a train came to pass, the best bet would be to not have it weave through Sioux Falls, but instead fix up the RCPE tracks straight through Brookings into Minnesota. Sioux Falls could be served by a separate train from the Twin Cities.
Even if Desert Wind only terms in SLC to LA it could be a boon for travel
I love your suggestion of Western Star for the El Paso to Billings route but why not extend it to Montana's third largest city, Great Falls, and then on to an 8th route connection at Shelby with the Empire Builder. Then the Western Star name would be especially fitting because it once served Great Falls and Shelby. Hate to see the plan miss a chance to restore service to Great Falls.
If you're going to dream about implausible extensions to hypothetical services you might as well dream big; run that baby all the way to Edmonton and connect with the Canadian as well.
Why not up to the Canadian border where VIA could extend it all the way to Edmonton?
Great discussion! Sleeper pods sounds like a promising idea. I'm not sure naming a route after a Native American tribe would be received well in this era.
Each state has 2 Senators, and many states have 0 Amtrak trains. Even 1 train serving a state will mean those 2 Senators will get voters calling them if they vote against Amtrak funding. Respectfully, it seems many of the "lets just fund the NEC/California" folks seem oblivious to how the US Congress works and how you actually get stuff funded.
Don’t like some of the routes but many do have merit and real benefits. Don’t know how many though would actually come to fruition
And we shall call it the John Galt line !!!!
Fun Fact: "The Trailblazer" was a prestigious Pennsylvania R.R. streamliner, most notable for being an all-coach air conditioned streamliner.
You definitely wanna connect the Midwest to Miami and Los Angeles directly. The weather sucks up there. Yo what about adding auto cars like the auto train?