Correct! I guess with him, my naval history nerd showed. Given how often he attacks my arms and legs when I play with him, he lives up to his mantra, "Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often."
I'm honestly feeling even older now that I know that all sorts of beloved and well used rolling stock is going to be replaced, like the Amfleets, older Metra Gallery cars, and soon enough, the Amtrak superliners and the SEPTA Silverliner IVs.
It's obvious that you put a lot of time into making long and in depth videos. You deserve more attention in the urban planning/transportation world. Thanks for some info on Philly transit!
I think if SEPTA has any intentions of increasing RR to a more Metro-centered frequency, reworking fare collection is a must. CC stations already have fare gates, a shift to a flat fare and funneling riders at suburban stations could automate a lot of the workload conductors currently face
This us a wonderful video and it was nice to be informed on the Silverliner IVs. When it comes to iconic philly rail however Id like to see a video on the old M3 Market Frankford El cars. As for the Silverliner VIs I think you hit the nail on the head with the M8s plus they're from Kawasaki who did a great job on the Broad st subway cars so they've got that going for them.
Way late here, but japan does just fine with streamlined sets that can couple like E259 and E353, they at least look more modern than something like an M8.
Thanks Tim! Big fan of your foamer window rides on the 5s (and your other stuff too of course). I'm sure it'll be a sad day when the 4s go as far as you're concerned. 😉Also, Halsey says thanks!
@@3985uprr Sadly you're probably right. The 5s obviously still got plenty of years, but I hardly expect them to be running day to day 50 years later, and really the same could be true for the replacement for the IVs. I definitely enjoyed the M8s when I rode on them, but with modern trains with complex systems, it's hard to get 50 years out of them.
R8 rider in the late 80s/early 90s. Mindblowing that these EMU cars are still in operation, though from another of your videos I saw they replaced the flip-back seats finally. :-)
I’d liken Septa’s silver liner IV problem to Delta 757 problem. The 757, much like the silver liner is reliable, however they’re getting older, even with options delta refuses to buy the a321XLR which would be as close a replacement for a 757 you can get today. Much like Delta, Septa is going to want something just as reliable as the Sliver liner IV.
Definitely don't disagree, the Stadler FLIRT is a good platform the base it on. I do wonder if it's being considered, particularly since Conductor Steve seemed to like the idea.
11:10 I think the people that actually live in Swarthmore say the "r". I have a friend from Wallingford who would always correct me when I said it without it.
When I moved to Philly and heard my new friends say they wanted to get “wuter ice” (delco accent) I was sooo confused lol, turns out it was what I and everyone else on the east coast call “Italian ice”
It will be a sad to see these cars replaced. I enjoyed operating them during my years at Septa. A viable replacement would be the Kawasaki M8 currently operated by Metro North, or the Stadler KISS MU, now being delivered to Caltrans in San Francisco. Fortunately, I have a small fleet of HO models to soldier on. One thing that probably won't be duplicated is the foamers window, its unsafe, irresponsible, and the front view can be streamed inside the cars for all.
Hi, thanks for making these videos they're really interesting hearing the interviews. One comment I'd make is that I think the interviews would improve if you avoided compound questions. Compound questions are difficult for the interviewee to answer completely, sometimes require more follow-up questions, and sometimes feel like you're giving a narrative and looking to for the interviewee to just agree/disagree with you. Anyway, love the content, feel free to take the advice with an appropriate grain of salt because you're creating great stuff as it is.
Thanks! Glad you liked it! I definitely realized that was an issue when I was going back and watching the interview after the fact, and alongside the concerns you brought up, which I definitely agree with, it made the whole interview an absolute pain to edit, and became part of the reason why it took up so much of the video. Definitely learning as I do this more and more, and I'll definitely take that on board for the future.
Yeah, I corrected myself in an annotation, but I gathered that it is pretty rare. Never saw one when I was in NYC and Stamford filming them in any case.
Definitely one I want to cover. I got a long-term plan for a video series on the Northeast Corridor, and the Keystone could be an interesting prelude or addition.
The reason they are looking at 80 is likely lower certification costs. Also the design should focus on passenger, not crew comfort. Both the LIRR and MNRR have had issues with the full cabs becoming defacto crew lounges where they hang out and avoid doing their jobs. The LIRR especially since there is no way to see in from the passenger area.
Septa needs to increase frequencies bad having barely every 2hrs or no service on Sundays past Malvern is really bad. If we could do across the board every 30mins i would be so elated. It wouldnt take me 30mins to explain the septa schedule to someone or why to pick this station a little farther away then this one.
Is there enough tunnel clearance for double deckers? If not, how would they be used on SEPTA's system? It seems they would only have limited use capacity.
They have enough clearance for certain double-decker cars since they have a higher clearance in the center city tunnel than the Hudson River Tunnels, and they fit NJT's Bombardier bilevel cars pretty well. They had an order of double-deckers from CRRC for the push pull sets, but canceled it recently because of the ineptitude of the builder, so the bilevel idea does work in principle here.
The commuter tunnel was meant to allow regional rail to operate more like the German S-Bahn. Problem is, the S-Bahn doesn't have conductors roaming the cars collecting fares. It's a proof of payment system. I hate to say it, but it would never work here. I've seen what a disaster it is in Seattle where they have to hire these guys who are jacked to check fares. Heck, Germans wait at the crosswalk for the "walk" sign to come on even if there's not a car in sight. If you don't have a citizenry that respects the rules, it can't work.
I’ve been enjoying your videos. I would suggest you invest in a two microphone dongle for the iPhone. They are cheap and really improve audio. I found it hard to hear the interview with Conductor Steve. It would also help with your outdoor narration. Keep up the good work. I’m looking forward to the videos you’re considering.
Thanks! I'm definitely going to get a couple of lavalier microphones for interviews and segments where I talk to the camera. Hopefully, that resolves the spotty audio problem. Getting new equipment in general for future projects, and thats going to be one of them.
Indeed they did. Hoping that means that they're proceeding with things with the different manufacturers, especially since if I remember right, their deadline was about now for manufacturers to submit ideas.
Have you seen the reports Vuchic, Kikuchi, Bruun et al did at Penn in the early 90s? Available at Penn archives online. You might have mentioned that Silverliner IVs are overweight and have end doors instead of quarter point doors.
I know they did talk about that, though I haven't found the documents just yet. I'll definitely look in the Penn archives now that you bring that up since I definitely wanted to read it for a while!
For the CO and passengers yes, the engineer? Hell no. That cab looks very cramped. Plus the automated PA butchers town names compared to the correct Philadelphian dialect of the manual PA of the IVs.
I legitimately think that SEPTA could run the IV's for another decade at least, maybe 2. I suspect that many will be kept around as backups for years to come, even after the SLVI is procurred. They really are just built to last. I think a hypothetical Silverliner VI (if that's what they even end up calling it) will most likely be modern "off the shelf" EMUs like Stadler KISS or FLIRTs - more likely the KISS built to similar specs as the CalTrain. I suspect SEPTA will start looking at these in 2026 or so and they'll run by 2031 if they end up pulling the trigger. Especially since Stadler now has a big manufacturing plant in Salt Lake City so they fall under Buy America. That or SEPTA will end up ordering some of the triple married-pair Bombardier multilevel units being built for NJT. I really hope they go with Stadler though, the CalTrain units look really good and it would be a great new look for Regional Rail - either way the added capacity of a bilevel EMU would be huge for busy lines like the Paoli-Thorndale
Funny story with that one. That's one of the conductors. My educated guess is that he and the rest of the staff didn't have small bills with him (since it's pretty common for passengers to pay for their tickets with the conductor on the train in cash), and rushed up to the convenience store behind the station to get change. It did delay the service for a couple minutes, but I guess it was mission accomplished on that front.
I remember making an a railcar suggestion and I suggest and hope to see SEPTA using a Hankyu 2000, 2300, or 2400 series type for their fleet and this one is a 2023 model not be confused with the older one.
I’d liken Septa’s silver liner IV problem to Delta 757 problem. The 757, much like the silver liner is reliable, however they’re getting older, even with options delta refuses to buy the a321XLR which would be as close a replacement for a 757 you can get today. Much like Delta, Septa is going to want something just as reliable as the Sliver liner IV.
bull halsey the pacific fleet commander?
Correct! I guess with him, my naval history nerd showed. Given how often he attacks my arms and legs when I play with him, he lives up to his mantra, "Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often."
@@SteveGettingAroundPhillyhistory nerds I’ve found contain multitudes.
I'm honestly feeling even older now that I know that all sorts of beloved and well used rolling stock is going to be replaced, like the Amfleets, older Metra Gallery cars, and soon enough, the Amtrak superliners and the SEPTA Silverliner IVs.
It's obvious that you put a lot of time into making long and in depth videos. You deserve more attention in the urban planning/transportation world. Thanks for some info on Philly transit!
Thank you! I enjoyed the interview with the conductor. It is good to get some of the real world perspective of people who work in transit everyday.
I think if SEPTA has any intentions of increasing RR to a more Metro-centered frequency, reworking fare collection is a must. CC stations already have fare gates, a shift to a flat fare and funneling riders at suburban stations could automate a lot of the workload conductors currently face
This us a wonderful video and it was nice to be informed on the Silverliner IVs. When it comes to iconic philly rail however Id like to see a video on the old M3 Market Frankford El cars. As for the Silverliner VIs I think you hit the nail on the head with the M8s plus they're from Kawasaki who did a great job on the Broad st subway cars so they've got that going for them.
Way late here, but japan does just fine with streamlined sets that can couple like E259 and E353, they at least look more modern than something like an M8.
I would love to see that full interview! I think a lot of people would enjoy it. Also love the video.
I love these cars!!!!!🤨🤨🤨🤨. I have thrived on the foamer window. Love Halsey the cat!!
Thanks Tim! Big fan of your foamer window rides on the 5s (and your other stuff too of course). I'm sure it'll be a sad day when the 4s go as far as you're concerned. 😉Also, Halsey says thanks!
I love the 5’s but acknowledge they won’t last nearly as long as the 4’s
@@3985uprr Sadly you're probably right. The 5s obviously still got plenty of years, but I hardly expect them to be running day to day 50 years later, and really the same could be true for the replacement for the IVs. I definitely enjoyed the M8s when I rode on them, but with modern trains with complex systems, it's hard to get 50 years out of them.
R8 rider in the late 80s/early 90s. Mindblowing that these EMU cars are still in operation, though from another of your videos I saw they replaced the flip-back seats finally. :-)
I’d liken Septa’s silver liner IV problem to Delta 757 problem. The 757, much like the silver liner is reliable, however they’re getting older, even with options delta refuses to buy the a321XLR which would be as close a replacement for a 757 you can get today. Much like Delta, Septa is going to want something just as reliable as the Sliver liner IV.
can't wait for your next video!
I would love to see the future rolling stock be something similar to the British Rail Class 755!
Definitely don't disagree, the Stadler FLIRT is a good platform the base it on. I do wonder if it's being considered, particularly since Conductor Steve seemed to like the idea.
11:10 I think the people that actually live in Swarthmore say the "r". I have a friend from Wallingford who would always correct me when I said it without it.
When I moved to Philly and heard my new friends say they wanted to get “wuter ice” (delco accent) I was sooo confused lol, turns out it was what I and everyone else on the east coast call “Italian ice”
It will be a sad to see these cars replaced. I enjoyed operating them during my years at Septa. A viable replacement would be the Kawasaki M8 currently operated by Metro North, or the Stadler KISS MU, now being delivered to Caltrans in San Francisco. Fortunately, I have a small fleet of HO models to soldier on. One thing that probably won't be duplicated is the foamers window, its unsafe, irresponsible, and the front view can be streamed inside the cars for all.
Hi, thanks for making these videos they're really interesting hearing the interviews. One comment I'd make is that I think the interviews would improve if you avoided compound questions. Compound questions are difficult for the interviewee to answer completely, sometimes require more follow-up questions, and sometimes feel like you're giving a narrative and looking to for the interviewee to just agree/disagree with you. Anyway, love the content, feel free to take the advice with an appropriate grain of salt because you're creating great stuff as it is.
Thanks! Glad you liked it! I definitely realized that was an issue when I was going back and watching the interview after the fact, and alongside the concerns you brought up, which I definitely agree with, it made the whole interview an absolute pain to edit, and became part of the reason why it took up so much of the video. Definitely learning as I do this more and more, and I'll definitely take that on board for the future.
i"d guess the cat is named after the WW2 Admiral. They see you work under Proper Feline Supervision. Good luck
Edit Assistant conductor *
**Former
I'm pretty sure the 3rd car is intended to go in the middle of married pairs but they generally don't because it's more complicated to attach them
Yeah, I corrected myself in an annotation, but I gathered that it is pretty rare. Never saw one when I was in NYC and Stamford filming them in any case.
Be cool to see you talk about the keystone service history between Philadelphia and Harrisburg?
Definitely one I want to cover. I got a long-term plan for a video series on the Northeast Corridor, and the Keystone could be an interesting prelude or addition.
I think I prefer riding the silver liner 4 over the 5
The reason they are looking at 80 is likely lower certification costs.
Also the design should focus on passenger, not crew comfort. Both the LIRR and MNRR have had issues with the full cabs becoming defacto crew lounges where they hang out and avoid doing their jobs. The LIRR especially since there is no way to see in from the passenger area.
Septa needs to increase frequencies bad having barely every 2hrs or no service on Sundays past Malvern is really bad. If we could do across the board every 30mins i would be so elated. It wouldnt take me 30mins to explain the septa schedule to someone or why to pick this station a little farther away then this one.
The Fours were made in Philadelphia by the Budd Company which employed many people from the city of Philadelphia
Stainless steel is timeless.
Is there enough tunnel clearance for double deckers? If not, how would they be used on SEPTA's system? It seems they would only have limited use capacity.
They have enough clearance for certain double-decker cars since they have a higher clearance in the center city tunnel than the Hudson River Tunnels, and they fit NJT's Bombardier bilevel cars pretty well. They had an order of double-deckers from CRRC for the push pull sets, but canceled it recently because of the ineptitude of the builder, so the bilevel idea does work in principle here.
I sent the links but they seem to have been deleted. Short Term Improvements.... and A Plan for SEPTA Metrorail.......
The commuter tunnel was meant to allow regional rail to operate more like the German S-Bahn. Problem is, the S-Bahn doesn't have conductors roaming the cars collecting fares. It's a proof of payment system. I hate to say it, but it would never work here. I've seen what a disaster it is in Seattle where they have to hire these guys who are jacked to check fares. Heck, Germans wait at the crosswalk for the "walk" sign to come on even if there's not a car in sight. If you don't have a citizenry that respects the rules, it can't work.
Why can’t you have a s bahn with fare gates?
I’ve been enjoying your videos. I would suggest you invest in a two microphone dongle for the iPhone. They are cheap and really improve audio. I found it hard to hear the interview with Conductor Steve. It would also help with your outdoor narration. Keep up the good work. I’m looking forward to the videos you’re considering.
Thanks! I'm definitely going to get a couple of lavalier microphones for interviews and segments where I talk to the camera. Hopefully, that resolves the spotty audio problem. Getting new equipment in general for future projects, and thats going to be one of them.
I heard The foamer window safety is to protect customers from witnessing suicides
Just a heads up, SEPTA has removed that EOI along with the PDF from their procurement page.
Indeed they did. Hoping that means that they're proceeding with things with the different manufacturers, especially since if I remember right, their deadline was about now for manufacturers to submit ideas.
we love Halsey
Cute cat
Well they had to cancel the double decker order from CRRC, which means the IV will be kept even longer until the VI are built.
M8 MENTIONED
MY MANNNNN
My vote goes to Bombardier Comet V EMU's.
Second choice: New Arrow III's, just like the updated Arrow III's
Admiral William Halsey?
Ask one of the manufacturers to make a new Silverliner. Silverliner neo. Stainless steel and streamlined.
Have you seen the reports Vuchic, Kikuchi, Bruun et al did at Penn in the early 90s? Available at Penn archives online. You might have mentioned that Silverliner IVs are overweight and have end doors instead of quarter point doors.
I know they did talk about that, though I haven't found the documents just yet. I'll definitely look in the Penn archives now that you bring that up since I definitely wanted to read it for a while!
FYI the LIRR M1 retired in January of 2007 and the Metro North M1a retired in march of 2009
Thanks for the correction. Still a pretty good service life regardless.
Definitely it sucks not more of them were preserved they really saved the LIRR and metro north predecessors when it was needed most.
Septa cars do have plugs in the very front and the very back!
The Silverliner Vs used by RTD have a much better design.
For the CO and passengers yes, the engineer? Hell no. That cab looks very cramped. Plus the automated PA butchers town names compared to the correct Philadelphian dialect of the manual PA of the IVs.
@@Thunderbolt_1000_SirenWell, I was referring to the Silverliner Vs that RTD uses. They have full width cabs.
I legitimately think that SEPTA could run the IV's for another decade at least, maybe 2. I suspect that many will be kept around as backups for years to come, even after the SLVI is procurred. They really are just built to last. I think a hypothetical Silverliner VI (if that's what they even end up calling it) will most likely be modern "off the shelf" EMUs like Stadler KISS or FLIRTs - more likely the KISS built to similar specs as the CalTrain. I suspect SEPTA will start looking at these in 2026 or so and they'll run by 2031 if they end up pulling the trigger. Especially since Stadler now has a big manufacturing plant in Salt Lake City so they fall under Buy America. That or SEPTA will end up ordering some of the triple married-pair Bombardier multilevel units being built for NJT. I really hope they go with Stadler though, the CalTrain units look really good and it would be a great new look for Regional Rail - either way the added capacity of a bilevel EMU would be huge for busy lines like the Paoli-Thorndale
Hallsy after the British Olten Hall Steam Locomotive Class?
Wow, the SLV's is based off of the MR-90....
2:31 I love the SL IVs tho
1:07:55 is that safe? Who is that? A commuter?
Funny story with that one. That's one of the conductors. My educated guess is that he and the rest of the staff didn't have small bills with him (since it's pretty common for passengers to pay for their tickets with the conductor on the train in cash), and rushed up to the convenience store behind the station to get change. It did delay the service for a couple minutes, but I guess it was mission accomplished on that front.
Retired Railfan Horn Guy, please call your office.
The warmed over content channel.
Is Halsey Chessie's cousin or something?
Halo is it halo I bet it's halo
I wish you would have had a Interview with an actual licensed conductor
Replace with Stadler Flirt
The silver liner V are so good but they look so uglyyyy
I remember making an a railcar suggestion and I suggest and hope to see SEPTA using a Hankyu 2000, 2300, or 2400 series type for their fleet and this one is a 2023 model not be confused with the older one.
I’d liken Septa’s silver liner IV problem to Delta 757 problem. The 757, much like the silver liner is reliable, however they’re getting older, even with options delta refuses to buy the a321XLR which would be as close a replacement for a 757 you can get today. Much like Delta, Septa is going to want something just as reliable as the Sliver liner IV.