Copied from my community post on the matter: Hey everybody! Just wanted to thank you all for watching, and while I'm happy with how the video went and how it's performing, I also want to address a very valid criticism of it that has been brought up several times. The majority of the video, if not almost all of it, is focused on the concept of grade separations and what it can do for a railroad or transit line, but very little of it was dedicated to how to improve crossings that will never see grade separations for reasons that are rather obvious in context. The line is lesser used. The line is handling trains that would have a hard time with a grade separation in certain contexts. The geography doesn't allow for it to work well, or at all. The line is a light rail line that should be close to ground level in a lot of circumstances. The region or the railroad either doesn't have the money or doesn't want to spend it on such a project. There's a lot of reasons not to grade separate as much as there are reasons to do so as well. It's something that lingered in the back of my mind as I edited it, and when I released it, I knew that point was going to come up. The main point of it was that in the context of high frequency (both regional passenger rail and ideally busy freight corridors, though that's definitely way more dependent on local circumstances) and especially high speed rail corridors, grade separation is either desirable or outright mandatory for safety, service and traffic reasons, but also to demonstrate the challenges involved with undertaking such a project, both for an individual project and across a whole network. As of right now, alongside my other two projects in the works, I'm devoting time to research ideas that were brought up about improving railroad crossings that either shouldn't or can't be grade separated for various reasons, and will be writing up a script for a follow up video to be released down the line. Alongside that, I want to say thank you to everyone who participated and commented your critique and suggestions. It's reassuring to see that the people who watch my videos don't just uncritically praise my stuff and are suggesting good ways that both I can improve my craft and how we can improve our transportation systems without going for the "nuclear option" as it were. Again, thank you all. I am not blind to your critique, and I want to take suggestions to heart. And if ever I don't, and/or if ever I make a mistake like that, feel free to call me out, and make suggestions.
Yeah I would definitely say the Red Lion Rd crossing on the West Trenton line between Bethayres and Philmont has geography that isn't conducive to grade separation, and SEPTA sure doesn't have the money it would take to change that.
At the risk of sounding heartless, most of the victims of train crashes are Darwin Award winners. It's ridiculously easy in 99.99% of cases to not get hit by an oncoming train.
An American Conductor here: Most of the near misses and Train-Person/Train-Road Vehicle collisions I have witnessed have been people in a rush, running gates and ignoring other safety measures (Engine Horn & Bell, Gates & gate mounted Bells, Etc). In about 98% of the accidents between a train and a car or person along the right of way, the person that got hit by the train is at fault as they ignored all the safety measures. REMEMBER TO LOOK, LISTEN, LIVE P.S.: Elevating or tunneling under areas in super expensive for both the railroad and the town that the railroad runs thru except in certain areas like the NEC where it is worth awhile anyways to allow for faster passenger service. Railroads have been around for a whole lot longer than cars, most railroad lines where there long before the road was.
There are also lots of barely-hidden suicides on railrd tracks. A line in the Silicon Valley area has lots of pedestrian deaths connected to kids getting poor grades. The kids are from families who insist that their kids get THE top grades so that they can go to good schools and get good jobs, and not be stuck in jobs as retail cashiers or even auto mechanics.
@@Messicrafter Belgian train driver here. According to the offical stats we are given during our training, nearly 75% of accidents are imputable to s***cides. The rest are people deliberately ignoring signals and barriers, thinking they can outrun a train at full speed. The number of accidents that aren't directly caused by the victim is so small, it isn't even statistically significant. The plan is still to get rid of each and every crossing in the country altogether. On top of that, Infrabel (the company that owns the tracks) is installing barriers and fences around certain hotspots, and even thermal cameras with 24/7 supervision to remove particularly stubborn trespassers before they get themselves hurt or worse. Despite all that, an accident occurs every 3 days on average, in a country roughly the size of Maryland. People just aren't aware of how dangerous trains are.
@@paulbrower are those families being asked about how they are feeling after such an incident? About how proud they are that they killed their own child by pressuring them that much?
My favorite example of grade separation is the Norfolk Southern-Gregson Street Overpass in Durham, NC. The Norfolk Southern-Gregson Street Overpass in Durham was built in 1940 but was originally designed in the 1920s. When the bridge was built, it had a clearance of 11 foot 8 inches, that was standard at the time. Since 1973, the standard clearance for bridges was increased to a minimum height of 14 feet (4.27 m). However it took until 2019 for the North Carolina Railroad Company, which owns the bridge and tracks, to raise the bridge by 8 inches (20 cm) from 11 feet 8 inches to 12 feet 4 inches (3.76 m). So because it had a clearance of 11 feet 8 inches for such a long time, despite numerous warning signs about the low clearance, a large number of trucks, buses, and RVs have collided with the overpass at high speed, tearing off roof fixtures, and at times shearing off the trucks' roofs, thus earning the bridge, the nickname "Can Opener"! And for grade-separation of the LA Metro, it helps that system uses many of the former ROWs of the Pacific Electric Red Car and Los Angeles Railway Yellow Car lines, which operated between the late 19th century and the 1960s, as well as running in the median of a highway like the C Line! Another example of a system using old ROW is the MetroLink Blue and Red Lines in St Louis! On the Red Line, trains use the former Wabash/Norfolk & Western Railroad's Union Depot line that once brought passenger trains from Ferguson to Union Station. When the Red Line makes a stop at the Delmar Loop station, it is located just below the original Wabash Railroad's Delmar Station building! On the Blue Line, it follows a former Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis (TRRA)/Rock Island railroad right of way. Downtown, Red and Blue Line trains use the St Louis Freight Tunnel and the lower deck of Eads Bridge to cross the Mississippi to Illinois! The Eads Bridge was completed in 1874, and was the first bridge across the Mississippi south of the Missouri River. Earlier bridges were located north of the Missouri, but none of the earlier bridges survive, which means that the Eads Bridge is also the oldest bridge on the river!
I feel for operators having to deal with grade crossings and other vehicles in general. NEVER underestimate the power of a train! Several drivers underestimate Brightline in South Florida, thinking they can beat the train at the crossing, and that's how many crashes there happen! It reminds me of the videos I watch of people and vehicles trying to either beat or get too close to the Prague trams. It also reminds me of a Hudson-Bergen Light Rail crash that happened years ago (in May 2017) in Jersey City when a fire truck was speeding when it reached a light-rail crossing. It didn't stop, and the firefighters were injured because the fire truck hit the light-rail thanks to their mistake. Respect to both tram and train operators alike for what they have to deal with on a daily basis. You need to have a strong mental state with everything thrown at ya first hand. People have to remember that trains and trams aren't just transit, they're absolute tanks! A great example of a big grade-separation project is the LIRR's Babylon Branch! On the LIRR, the Babylon Branch runs along NY State Route 27 or Sunrise Highway, however, the Babylon Branch came way before the highway as it originally opened in the 1860s while the highway first opened in the mid-1920s. So the highway follows the trains, not the other way around. When it got its start in the 1860s as part of the South Side Railroad of Long Island, it was all grade crossings, and this became a problem as Sunrise Highway got built and more people moved to the south shore of Long Island, leading to busier crossings. So a mega project was launched in the 1950s to build the stations on elevated viaducts, with the last station along the branch to be elevated was Massapequa Park in 1980. To supplement Route 27, there is parking to lure people off the highway and different NICE and Suffolk Transit buses serve the stations as well, with the addition of Jones Beach bus service from Freeport making it possible to go to Jones Beach concerts by transit!
Railroad Crossings are good for only 1 reason. They're cheaper to make (initially) than other kinds of crossing. The ongoing costs (of both running lights/bells/gates, and the loss of equipment, private vehicles, and death) not so much.
Ye tho their can be a compromise were i live most the busy roads have been grade separated along main lines leaving smaller less traveled roads still at grade
Also due to the length and alignment of railways it’s easier to move the cars out of the way instead. When the LIRR upgraded the tracks between Hicksville and Mineola they built 11 grade separations all putting cars underneath saving money and months of construction on realignment.
Well, they made sense in the 19th century. It is Network Rail policy to gradually remove level crossings. It is difficult to remove crossings actually in town centres (e.g. Poole or Bamber Bridge). Outright closure, and replacement with a footbridge, can be an option but not if it’s a major bus route. Ely station had both a level crossing and an underpass (the underpass being for low vehicles only). The level crossing is now gone (the underpass remains).
@@danielcarlin7784 Modest solution: close off most of the rail crossings, replacing a few with overcrossings. Realign roads to reduce conflicts with railroads.
We have an ongoing project here in Norway too, to get rid of level crossings. Only last year, a tractor trailer got stuck on one, and got struck by a commuter style train. The trailer (and the boat it carried) was a write-off, the train got repaired, at a cost. Nobody got hurt, but it exemplifies the inherent danger of level crossings, and the need to make those that are part of "major" roads completely level, to avoid such situations (examples of stretch limos and tractor trailers getting stuck on poorly constructed crossings are too numerous to mention, and, they are, obviously, all over RUclips). Excellent channel!😄
I am Melbourne born and bred and talking from my own experiences the level crossing removal project is the biggest investment ever made towards infrastructure in this state
In many cases [SEPTA's one- and two-track lines are good examples], the grade crossings are more of a danger and inconvenience to drivers than to rail passengers. Crossing elimination is a win-win.]
@@harveywachtel1091 I've always thought they could be as much of a danger to drivers as they are to rail passengers. If you want an example of how, just look at the Valhalla Metro-North train accident of 2015. That could've been easily prevented by eliminating not only the grade crossing with the Harlem Line, but also the Taconic State Parkway.
This video is extremely well produced and thought out. I was even going to comment about Melbourne’s level crossing removal project but you beat me to it! Great job
Thanks! Melbourne is definitely an interesting case study to look into in that regard, and it shows what a lot of systems in the U.S. could be. Whether someone from Melbourne takes that as a good thing or a bad thing, I'm not too sure, but the system there seems at least to be pretty good generally and seems to be getting better, so might be good to take some inspiration from our Aussie friends! (and yes, I did have a lot of Taitset's videos in the background as I edited this video)
What an awesome video! And a really good point about safety when there are stoplights and other unsynchronized distractions nearby. And I think YOU are delightfully nerdy too! 😉
But… I really don’t wanna go that far, people were fatally killed, including children died by trains, from railroad crossings, especially exposure of health effects from various chemicals onboard if a deadly derailment occurs, Reminds to the trouble from the East Palestine’s disaster just like last year, it was a recipe of true danger for freight trains.
It also gives emergency vehicles better access having separation. Traffic lights they can work their way through, but level crossings, a house can burn down or a person can die waiting for a train to clear.
Rio Grande Plan mentioned!!!! Salt Lake City needs it's own Train Box and this project makes it a reality!! Hope to continue to see this plan talked about more and make it mainstream!
Unfortunately, in some places, grade-separation just isn't possible. Not just because of money, but because of land elevation and surrounding structures. And on a side note, if people don't like hearing loud train horns, TOUGH FUCKING SHIT!!! DON'T LIVE NEAR AN ACTIVE RAILROAD!!!
If it will take too much time and money to add a grade separation, there's always the option of adding properly controlled pedestrian level crossings. People are going to cross the tracks. Put a crossing instead of a fence.
I definitely agree with this in a lot of situations, though the Northeast Corridor itself is a lot more questionable. With the overall desire to convert that line to true high speeds, pedestrian level crossings have the same problem as traditional crossings in that crossings put a hard limit on speeds, currently at 110, but possibly 125 mph with the introduction of new crossing systems suitable to that speed. Not bad in of itself, but when the end goal for the Corridor in the coming yeara and decades is 160mph for long portions of the route and approaching 200mph in sections according to the goals of the NEC Commission, the same problems will emerge again, just potentially more fatal if something goes wrong. Again, I like this idea for a lot of lines, and a lot of regional and intercity lines would benefit from it, but for the Corridor in particular, not so much given the current goals for it.
Ye for most rail lines their will probably always be some crossings just doesnt make financial sense to grade separate every road along a line better to just focus on separating the most busy crossings
Railroad crossings with a third rail aren't any different. Due to the way third-rail based systems are designed, you're going to have to have a gap in the rail for the crossing, otherwise it would stick up above the road level. Third rail setups with full-sized trains aren't like Lionel trains with the rail in the middle.
Ehh not really, where I live the 3rd rail just stops over the crossing, and the trains keep going since they’re long enough that the train will always be touching the 3rd rail somewhere. It’s still more dangerous in a way because if you walk off the crossing, over the uncomfortable wooden ridging designed to make it hard to walk on, and onto the tracks, you can be electrocuted, but the vast majority of the time they’re no different.
No not really, theres coverings for the third rail so the only way to get electrocuted is to touch under the covering which is hard to accidentally do. Also there is a gap
LA Metro really is building some of the most / best grade separations in the country right now. every other railroad and transit agency should be looking to them for inspiration
Here in Sydney Australia we removed all of our crossings within the metro area, they were either engineered out with a tunnel / bridge or the lines were removed.
Some lines like Wawa have so many road crossings that most of the line would have to be elevated or depressed to eliminate them all--vastly too expensive.
Once while driving a bus, a BNSF / Norfolk Southern grain train stopped with the last car still on the crossing while waiting for permission to enter a yard. It had to wait for two other freight trains before moving. It made me over an hour late. A couple of the routes I was assigned had to be cancelled.
I saw someone mentioned collab-ing with City Nerd, but I really think you should link up with Alan Fisher. *also side note. I've been living in Philly for nearly 9 years and I never knew the trolleys crossed CSX freight tracks, that's insane!
The video doesn't mention when talking about Melbourne's grade separation projects that Melbourne has tram-train diamonds too, except that both the tram and the train use overhead wires so a complex power switching system controlled by a signal box needs to be used to change the voltage of the wires over the crossing. These tram-train diamonds are some of the most dangerous and were some of the first to be removed, and now only a few remain on the electrified suburban network. They're really cool pieces of infrastructure but aren't that practical though
Tbh, i get kind of annoyed when people say things like “grade separate all the way!” simply because, it’s not always the best option. Now of course, grade separation is a good thing, but if a passenger railway has a limited budget, i think their money would be better spent electrifying or improving frequency. Grade separation should be reserved for only the busiest or most dangerous crossings, we don’t need to grade separate every intersection. Just look to switzerland and japan who DO have grade separated lines, but still have exceptional trains, because they only spent money on crossings that REALLY needed grade separation, and spent the rest of the money on their trains and tracks. Overall, grade separation is good, but it shouldn’t be a railway’s main focus (unless they’ve already built a perfect railway)
Agreed with this point pretty much to a T. It's good to do it, especially for busy commuter rail and obviously for high speed intercity routes, and the obviously dangerous examples but there's a lot of places that it will not happen at for obvious reasons in context. I plan on following up on this video with a second one about how to improve the ones that obviously won't be grade separated, and I've even seen some ideas floated about here that seem to be quite interesting in that regard.
I live "on" Long Island, and the hamlet I live "in" has 3 grade crossing intersections going East before you reach the station. It's a total nightmare during rush hour with cars backed up on either until the train passes. The situation gets worse at the main drag where the station located. The area is under major redevelopment with new infill apartments, townhouses, entertainment venues, retail, and offices. The township is trying to solve the serious housing shortage, as well as, encouraging a commuter focused walkable neighborhood. However, this being Long Island, people are still going to need and want a car. But the traffic is going to get worse until the LIRR and Township work together, and build a grade separated crossing at the station .
How? Its LIRR, the trains are at most like 5 cars long. Lived at the Jersey shore all my life were there is no grade separation at all and we never have issues with the trains causing traffic even with about 10-15 in a 2 mile span.
@@dexecuter18 Standard LIRR trains are 8 to 12 cars. With 3 grade crossing within .25 miles of each other. The traffic problem is particularly bad due to an office park, an elementary and high school, and shopping strip located within feet of the 3 crossings. The LIRR had the same problem with the stops at Mineola, Carle Place and Merlin Avenue. The crossings severely interfere the flow of traffic. This was especially true with Mineola which is at the junction of 2 main lines. There were 4 grade crossing near that station. In an area that has an university hospital, a large Catholic high school, and is the seat for Nassau County all within walking distance of the station. Also, the numerous accidents at occured these crossings. The problems were only corrected when it was decided to add a 3rd set of tracks to increase capacity, and grade separate these choke points.
Pedestrian only overpasses, whether over I-95 or the NEC, can become a safety concern. They are essentially a big, long cage where person v person violence can happen, and they need to be a cage to prevent things being thrown at passing cars or trains. As for grade separation projects, it's easier to fund when the tracks and roads are owned by the same entities. It gets complicated when private companies get involved. Look at the famous 11-foot-8 road underpass in North Carolina. It took decades of can-opener accidents to get it raised 8" - and it still gets hit by trucks. Furthermore, given the amount of differed maintenance we have on so much of our infrastructure, from water mains to bridges, I don't see government dollars going to an Australian style program here. Not even in Connecticut, where it could have been done as part of the New Haven to Boston electrification.
Melbourne's level crossing removal project has some really interesting techniques for removing level crossings such as the skyrail technique which elevates the entire line. I bet the NIMBYs will love that one.
On Long Island a few years ago, there were some railroad crossings that were closed and even eliminated as part of the LIRR Third Track Project on the Main Line in much of Nassau County, New York, although the bridges under Merillon Avenue station really should've been widened. Some of the same issues of NIMBYism delayed the improvements there, and I'd like to tell you that if it can be done on the LIRR, it can be done with SEPTA, but I see that with SEPTA it would be much more difficult.
New subscriber, always supporting PA based infrastructure channels. I rode the Providence->NY section of the Northeast Regional for the first time recently and I had no idea it had grade crossings until passing them. I was like "Wait doesn't Acela use this track?" Also, the train ended up reaching Philly late. They had to hold up the Pennsylvanian so a bunch of us didn't miss it.
It is definitely jarring seeing grade crossings from an Acela when you're used to none of it down south, that's for sure. I'm reminded though that the part of the line from New Haven to Boston was only electrified in the late 90s, and I remember seeing engine swaps as a kid going up to Boston in the late 90s, and given the nature of a lot of projects like these, I'm not entirely shocked that's the case. It's still crazy to think of though, especially in New London itself with that 25mph curve. Connecticut definitely needs a ton of improvements, and the crossings are one of them.
@@nitehawk86 That's still happening, but wasn't going to be immediate, since apparently it requires infrastructure work to be done on the Norfolk Southern owned part of the old Pennsy main line from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh, so I'm not expecting it to happen for a couple of years. The infrastructure work is fully funded and apparently currently underway, I imagine mostly signal related and hopefully adding more tracks back to the line that were ripped up, but haven't seen a confirmed date on when it will be ready
A good example of a quiet zone crossing is the LIRR Port Washington branch crossing Little Neck Road, where tracks carrying two trains an hour each way pass very close to houses. As part of the deal to eliminate train horn signals, they installed four-quadrant gates and reconfigured the street to eliminate an awkward left turn across the tracks into a parallel road. The community here is pretty wealthy and has plenty of influence. I would have hoped that Rydal residents here in SEPTA-land would be influential enough to do something about SEPTA train 302, which wakes me at 06:30 each morning, but I guess things work differently here than in NYC.
As a European I find it absurd that trains honk, ring bells and flash lights while the crossings blare and flash non stop as well in the US. Here trains will only sound their horns at unprotected crossings, while the crossings usually only ring for a few seconds until the gates close. Seems all the added noise of American crossing serve no purpose other than annoying residents since so many people just ignore them anyway...
We used to have grade separation projects like Melbourne's. Especially between the wars "grade crossing elimination districts" were a thing. The railroads were supposed to show some predetermined level of improvements periodically. Unfortunately the railroads "shifted gears" about 1945, and while the new rolling stock for passengers at that time was the best ever the railroads were already "selling off the main line" as well as a lot of the new rolling stock to parties south of the border. When they "built" the so-called "Newark Light Rail" (an extension of the erstwhile Newark City Subway) they added 5 grade crossing to the 3.4-mile line and "street running" downtown - through a grade crossing elimination district which they saw fit to create a separate Environmental Assessment for: they declared a FONSI on the street running and tagged the grade crossing elimination district as a "historic resource". This kind of MO has found it's way into the transit agencies from the previous railroad proprietors, particularly Amtrak as the direct offshoot of legacy carriers. Septa was spared for a while - and I know the argument about cost is a convincing one - especially if you select projects like that one around Norristown designed to be as expensive and little-used as possible. It looks like those stations along the Wawa line were always expected to carry on in that form long-term. It's problematic there where you have two big crossings with a river in between. Of course there's always a best solution (Maybe a cut for some of it?) but nothing like that's likely to occur any time soon. A bridge cutting across those two big crossings would be pretty unpopular. It takes a lot of study with trial a error to come up with the least intrusive solution. Of course one person could do that in a few months. They'll want close to a $billion just to do the design.
Ok, immediate subscribe! Great info and depth of research. This channel better get big quickly! Well researched, balanced, and objectively unassailable or at least highly defensible positions - so basically a unicorn rail transit-focused channel. We need more creators like this one! Everyone please give this guy a like and subscribe! Please do one on Caltrain and/or California rail improvement in general. Caltrain is electrifying, grade separating, increasing frequencies to 15 minutes, and eyeing 110 mph on a commuter rail/S-bahn service - unheard-of stuff in American rail transit and even cutting edge by international standards. And no one in the rail community is talking about it. It seems that California has been investing in rail like no other region over the last 30 years. They have incredible results going from nothing in the 80s to best or second best in the nation in 30 years. It's the most dramatic turnaround in American rail transit ever, and no one is talking about it. None of the creators can get around their image of California that they remember from 80s movies.
In many parts of Europe, grade/level crossings are augmented with a green light to indicate if the system is functioning properly. Sidewalks, footpaths & trails often have a fence or stile which force pedestrians & cyclists to slow down & zigzag around barrier, also looking for oncoming trains while navigating barrier.
How about a mile long freight train that cuts the city in half and comes to a stop, then for the next hour or so backs up or moves forward? Kalamazoo, Michigan, I'm looking at you. Been a problem for decades!
Where you are that's what is called switching the GDLK does a lot of it at Kalamazoo Yard in downtown. It is to make sure equipment makes it to the correct Place
@@railfanmaximstill7279 All the more reason to have grade separation. Calgary has a downtown rail line and a nearby rail yard, but has grade separation at nearly all crossings in that whole area.
No. Not all crossing need to be removed. Some don't have enough traffic like rural areas or not enough trains causing problems such as, by the time one or the other gets heavier traffic the other isn't their. Also for equipment that need to run on tracks like hi rail vehicles, how would they get on if all crossings were removed? And plus I like crossings anyways and at least keep mine around if it dose happen.
Next time you're out and about, look at the intersection and try and imagine how you'd fix it. Then how much in dollars and finally who's going to pay for it. You're welcome
this is what OBB does every time they upgrade a line, especially if they want to make it "Hochleistungsstrecke", aka "high performance line", which means a line with lots of traffic and 200 kph for IC/EC/long distance trains... for example the Marchegger Ostbahn did get rid of most level crossings by either making underpasses or overpasses for the road traffic, and keeping level crossings only at like 2-3 places, which are either within Vienna (and the trains dont go faster than 80 kph then) and like one is near Vienna on a slower road :) on the Wien-Floridsdorf - Ganserndorf - Marchegg line, they did the same... and the Pottendorfer line between Vienna and Wiener Neustadt not only is almost completely grade-separated (I believe, again, that the only crossing is still within Wiener Neustadt near a station, so the trains dont go fast there) and is elevated... even new stations are on elevated platforms and the OBB does this not only on mainlines, but wherever there is more traffic with higher speeds... cars dont have to watch/listen for incoming trains, and trains dont have to slow down... as for horns, here they mostly arent required to blow the horns, also cos of the noise... on some local lines, there is a sign for rail drivers to drive on sight and slower, so they have time to stop just in case but yeah, if a new line is built, grade separation should be a no-brainer... if an upgrade is being made, an underpass/overpass should be among the priorities... and if there is time/money, grade crossings should gradually be removed
As someone who used to commute on the SEPTA Wilmington Line to Ridley Park the pedestrian crossing hits home. It is horrifically bad especially at the stations because so many the crossings were to simply get to the otherside where the bus stop may be can be down a ways down a ton fo steps under a tunnel used by cars going way to fast then back up a ton of steps and to the opposite side just to get the train going to the right direction. Which I guess at least there was a pedestrian crossing but it was far easier for the dozens of pedestrians to just skimper across the 4 tracks to the otherside. If you watched the overhead lines you would hear them shake before the trains came. If SEPTA simply put an overhead crossing or one that wasn't just as likely to kill you as the speeding drivers were maybe people would had used that. I haven't been back there in decades now but it was bad then. Fortunately most of the crossings where I live now people tend to obey them but they can be annoying. CSX has a switching yard right by a major one and their trains will block traffic for an hour at a time just to do some rail switching without a care in the world. People complain all the time and that I see people swerving between the gates after it becomes clear the train is stopped so they can hook on more car or something. I see a few crossings near lights though with no gates and I shake my head as I see drives stop right on the tracks at the light. clearly these are barely used tracks at all but the crossing bars still exist and look maintained and you will see the occasional car parked nearby so someone is dropping and picking up cars...
Here in Argentina we're eliminating a Lot of RR crossings, replacing them with bridges and underpasses to prevent accidents and save time for pedestrians and motorists.
With regard to a potential Secane rebuild for a grade separation, if the recent rebuild was done with FTA $, SEPTA may need to either wait many years for it to be beyond its useful life per FTA guidelines, or repay the FTA.
Another thing is many passenger and frieght share the lines, so if you elevate the passenger stations, you're going to have to elevate industries or widen the alignment to allow freight to go down to service them. Probably the best way to introduce the garde seperation is when ever the municipality is doing construction fixing the road and drainage and other things to then lower the road that say 12-14 feet
there’s one at grade crossing that i cross when going to church where it meets a high capacity road next to an intersection that meets a high capacity road. i hate it. last time i drove there, a pickup truck’s bed in front of me was on the track bcuz he/she misjudged the amount of space between the railroad and the red light
The safest option works but would be extremely expensive & that would be grade elimination/separation. Raise the track's right-of-way above or below Street level. That way traffic flow and pedestrians remain safe & unobstructed. Passenger & Freight would greatly benefit from this. All railroads in NYC have been upgraded like this (except one) although we have no high speed rail services (Acela-Amtrak doesn't run high speed thru the city). This will save lives for sure.
The Expo/E and Blue/A Lines in Los Angeles are notorious for accidents involving trains vs motorists or pedestrians at grade crossings. Many of them are fatal.
No grade crossings would make it easier for me to sleep on my trips from DC to Pitt or Chicago, the horn is the main thing that wakes me up. (Everyone wins) This was a great video, also reminding me I need to ride up north and check things out.
Over here in the United Kingdom the West Coast Mainline in the UK is fully grade separated the West Coast Mainline got rid of all of the level Crossings I 2004
While it's a small number to be sure and money-wise it's not worth it to do lots of grade-separation to save lives (like the bit in Fight Club), it's worth it for train speed (like the NEC, Keystone) and traffic disruption.
@@andyinsdca I mean the main point here is to separate main arterial roads, where by far most people cross anyway and even eliminate some of the redundant crossings. (crossings with opportunities nearby)
@@magnusaugust8489 So... what happens anyway? I've never seen a grade crossing on anything bigger than secondary road unless its an industrial spur were the train stops anyway.
There's a DANGEROUS intersection in Charlotte, NC called Scaleybark Station.. it's a station for the Light Rail, but the station is in the median of the road. Similar situation even if the light rail is stopped.
I'm from Germany, and in one of our biggest cities, Frankfurt, there is a double-tracked line in the middle of a road leading into the city which at some point disappears into a tunnel, and at the busiest times, on that track there is a U-Bahn train every 2-3mins. There are a lot of grade crossings on that section, and the U-Bahns regularly have to wait for the crossing streets to get empty and to get a „green light“ so they can continue. In my opinion, that section should be rebuilt to fully underground as soon as possible.
Eschersheimer Landstraße if anyone wants to find the street in question. Though in that case, I'm actually wondering on whether elevating it is more useful, considering that the line has to go up not only above a river but also the Main-Weser railway alongside having the advantage of keeping it a dual carriageway but with better pedestrian access (of course, such a project also would have to be discussed with the residents throughout).
Awesome video! I live in the Philadelphia area and travel on Septa. I noticed places like Exton, Langhorne to Secane and many more in this video. It sure would take a lot of work to have all trains elevated like NEC and Keystone lines mentioned with the lack of crossings. Which I actually knew from living in the area. I live by the Norfolk Southern line that goes west to Harrisburg, Altoona, Pittsburgh and very few to Chicago daily. I don’t get waken up by the trains much anymore as I am used to it. And last, why wasn’t places like La Grange Kentucky not mentioned when they go right in the middle of the street? That also could be part of this video. And Philadelphia area could be shot with RT 101 Media Trolley (Future D1 Septa Metro) on State Street as a good example. That could be part of another video for *train and trolley traffic in the middle of the street*
62 crossings received $570 million to be removed. The money mostly covers the full project, however some of the money is being used strictly for planning. That means those projects to remove a crossing are priced between $10-$15 million a piece at minimum (AP News). Quiet zones cost at minimum 250k and could cost as high as $1 million (palm beach post, mlive news). Local governments have to foot the bill to construct them and the railroads are tasked with maintaining them. I agree with the sentiment of making it safer but financially it’s just not practical. Freight owns the vast majority of the lines and it’s like pulling teeth just to get them to install simple safety measures like more defect detectors, much less remove a crossing.
I saw two kids taking they bikes over the fence over the track, then over fence in front of a police/ fire station. People don't onder stand that train dangerous l.
8:00 I'll give two examples of these Old Nebraska 275 (Old Highway 275) & Downing Street (look on google maps for both examples) and 23rd and Somers (Gateless for both 23rd Street and Somers Avenue) both have a traffic light that does not correspond with an approaching Train (BNSF owns the 23rd street and Somers Avenue crossings and goes 25 mph through them) UP owns the one on down and goes 30 to 50 mph through it
In the late 70s and early 80s, all railroad crossings were removed on the mainlines, here in Denmark. Without exceptions. Local rail lines has crossings. Guarded crossings are without "horny" sounds. Unguarded crossing, typically dirt roads for the farmer, a single whistle will do. It is a high pitch whistle. Noise pollution is a big thing here, very big.
I wonder, if the US does have any concepts on improving the safety of railroad crossings, or if there is only the usual "tell drivers to care for the rules". Because here in Germany we had some surprising results. For example flashing lights are currently phased out in favor of a design almost identical to a traffic light - these have a MUCH higher compliance rate, because drivers see the flashing only as a warning and not as a stop sign.
Sadly, in a lot of cases, it seems like it does boil down to that. There has been some attempts to try, like with synchronizing intersection signals with the crossings, but nowhere near to the same extent as in other countries. The idea for the one that's similar to a traffic light is a new one even to me, and I'd be interested to see what what that can do at a crossing here. Given the fact that the railroads in the U.S. are privatized and really always have been except for public transit agencies and Amtrak, I'd imagine one brave public transit agency trying it, and if it works would slowly spread elsewhere, but in the near term, I'm definitely not holding my breath just yet.
@@AMacProOwner what I've found is a list on collisions based on the typ of safety. Now a lot of old flashing lights are replaced by the traffic light type - sadly I couldn't find how many. But the interesting thing are 22 collisions with flashing and just two with traffic light for the years 2014-2016 each.
Have gotten into watching railfan videos from the 60s and 70s and one or two of the east coast covered the NEC under the Pennsylvania/Penn Central era and it was just odd seeing areas with grade crossings with the only other protection being several standard yellow diamond road signs stating warnings of high speed trains.
In my opinion, it's mainlines which benefit the most from grade separations since they do get quite a bit of trains and the benefits generally outweight the risks. Branch line OTOH tend to be two tracks at most but often one track and also are ligher on traffic, passenger trains also tend to be shorter (it's common to run twin units if not a single railcar on them) and speed will be limited on these lines anyway. It also makes reactivating old lines without resorting to light rail rules (such as BOStrab in Germany) easier. I think what makes level crossings in the US particularly notable is just how common they are and how long the trains can be. Even ignoring the steriotype that American drivers just suck, both of them do encourage racing the train to the point where I can understand why they're doing it even if can kill them. For example, the examples Alan Fisher has shown on his Brightline video are ridiculous and really, many should be just removed with no replacement or at most build a pedestrian overpass and conversely, the many (freight) railways tend to park their trains on crossings with no nearby alternative for the road traffic. One point you did mentioned which tend to be forgotten quite a bit is how railways can divide neighbourhoods as much as motorways (of course, you can always argue about that railways overall are narrower than the equivalent motorway but still, same phenomen), though I wish you could have mentioned that the grade separation for cars is overall expensive. Shifter made a video about weird bicycle infra a couple weeks ago and the 4 Street SE in Calgary is a good example of the necessary cost of grade separation where there was only enough space for four lanes for cars and a sidewalk so bicycles had to be redirected to the latter when it could have been only two car lanes + bike lanes + sidewalk if not being closed to car traffic at all because there are so many underpasses for them already. Conversely, pedestrian infra (and bike infra to a lesser extend) is much less expensive thanks to lower clearances and the resulting costs (at most its the installation of lifts for wheelchair users with the increased maintenance costs but even that isn't much more space intensive than car underpasses) which is a good thing because they can't cover the same distance with your feet as your car can (else you get car dependent suburbia).
For somebody who claims to live along the West Chester Line (yes, I'm calling it that-fight me), you seem to have an awful lot of footage from the Reading side, especially around Elkins Park. As somebody who lives within horn-distance of Jenkintown, I am HIGHLY suspicious. As you may know (eye daggers), there are two grade crossings near me. One is a private crossing for a substation that may or may not be closed in the not-to-distant future. The other is Rices Mill Road. While I do see some lines of cars at Rices Mill, the only real complaints anybody has is the giant utility trucks squeezing down a side road to the private crossing.
Considering that the first video I made for this channel is an hour long docunentary about the West Chester Line (which I call it that as well), and the recent stories about trying to get it back to West Chester for the first time since 1986, I definitely have a lot more of the West Chester Line in my archives. Mostly went to the Reading side in this video simply that's where most of the crossings are on the network, and I like to visit different locations since going along one line gets dull after a while, particularly one like the West Chester Line that I know like the back of my hand at this point having lived along it for 15 years. The stuff around Elkins Park was also deliberate to demonstrate the grade separations there on the main line.
@@SteveGettingAroundPhilly Sorry, for a bit of a late delay, but I re-found this going back through my comments looking for something else. Those grade separations in Elkins Park are not really applicable. Those roads have (as far as I can tell) ALWAYS been grade-separated simply due to the terrain. Greenwood Avenue at Jenkintown Station and Easton Road at Glenside Station are the two most notable non-terrain related grade separations in the area as far as I can tell. After that, you have to go to North Hills and Penllyn to get to the next two obvious grade-crossing eliminations. There is also Ashbourne Road, which was simply closed and replaced with a pedestrian underpass. Judging by the architecture (and date stamps), all of these were closed (and many other bridges replaced) in the early 1930s, concurrent with electrification.
In India we have a simple solution until all crossing are converted to underpasses or bridges, since the beginning of railways, the gates here enormous and strong piece of metal manually operated still to this day, and there is signal which before every crossing, until the gates are closed and locked by the gate operator, the signal is red. The gates close 3 min before train comes not like 30 se in US. Once we were chillin at 110kmph and had to stop behind a gat cuz of traffic. There are 2 yellow signal before the red signal so train has no problem to stop
There are a few problems. -Grade separations are expensive to build. The city or rail line may not be able to afford it, especially small towns/lines. -Clearance. It may be difficult to fit large trucks underneath, as the many overpass videos on RUclips can attest to. -Geography. Building a grade separation may be physically impossible in some locations. -Overcrowding. If a town can only have one or two of these, it will likely become congested with traffic while a train is passing, thus defeating the purpose. My town does have two: one over a road and one over a walking path. The road one is almost a hundred years old and is in very poor condition as a result.
It seems that everyone is putting the onus on the railroad to improve things instead of the municipalities. I think it would be cheaper to build an auto bridge than to rebuild the railroad right of way, because a single street out of service is easier to do than taking an entire rail line out. Think how far back the railroad that raised the bridge 8 inches had to go to maintain a 1 or 2 percent grade. As for me, when the crossing lights come on, I want to see the train so I stop.
In Davis, CA, they are upgrading the Amtrak station and part of it will be a grade separated pedestrian crossing of the tracks. About a decade or so ago the railroad put up fences to keep people from walking across this line that runs along the south side of downtown. There are already no grade crossings on this line within Davis, though there are a couple within a mile or two of the city limits.
Historically, tracke were there before roads, and when roads were built/towns expanded, then if there was enough rail traffic, the governme nt/town would pay for grade separation. But from the 60s onward, as areas developped, they didn't see the need for grade separation when a suburb expanded since there was no future in trains and train frequencies that remained didn't justify the expense. The issue is back now that people demand higher train frequencies and suburbs have developped and have lots of traffic wanting to go across those tracks al the time. Brightline is very poorly planned for long term, but as a freight railroad, not surprising. Had tracks been upgraded for fast passenger trains, they would have build all station as elevated and over time elevate more and more segments between stations to eliminate the crossings. However, elevated tracks not good for freight, so like in downtown Miami, likely would have kept freight tracls on ground. They cannot put roads under th atracks due to groun being s near to sea level and hurricanes would flood those roads up, preventing evacuations. And building overpass means the road would cut access to stores that are on the corner of those tracks. One crossing on Ile Perrot near Montreal Canada 45.38714281918481 -73.99130851398584 has the rail logic attached to the road intersection betwen the road crossing tracks and the exit from highway going down to the underpass under highway to get to south of highway. When the tacks circuits sense approaching train (before it activates the gates/flashing lights/bells) it tells the traffic lighst to prepare for a train. The light north of tracks turns red. The light south of track stays green so that any car already engaged in crossing has green light to exit crossing. (with intersecting light being red to make this safe) and the light for traffic going north (crossing exit from highway and then crossing tracks) gets red. As a cyclist, when I see that light pattern, I know the crossing is about to be activated. The north side of tracks becomes fully silated when a long fright train is stopped for any lenth of time and obstructs the "exot" from that part of twon on both east adn west crossings, and there are now calls to make at least one crossing an underpass so firemen can at least cross of road is blocked by a train. Every situation is different.
As ‘nothing personal’ myself as an East coast person. People may risking their lives just to best the train in a matter of hours or recent times upon. Grade crossings are there just to prevented to a tragic waiting to happen. If there’s no crossing to the towns or cities, or any suburban and local communities, the result of motorists and pedestrians may be exposed or serious injury, or worse… fatal deaths. Imagine you’d installed warning lights, ringing bells, and crossing gates, but in rural countries, they rather used the ‘Cross-buck with no gates or bell. or just vintage machines like Wigwags back then over the years. But still, it just ignored the problem to reduced in such serious situations if people are doing daredevil or narrowly avoiding a accident if trains can’t stop, or just why foamers (railfan) complained if the police can’t contact the railroads, while they did help out the motorist, but however cars were a scrap pile of wreck, They questioned their engineers or the conductor of how fast your going (Unlike) thye pulled over drivers for a routine traffic stop. In my opinion suggesting that the Railroads should installed PTC (Positive Train Control), or if the PSR shouldn’t make trains became longer or ignore the mechanical problems like Aging Railcars, heavy cargo or tonnage of goods result of EMD or GE Locomotives are difficult braking, it takes a mile long to stop. It would be too little but ‘BIG too late’💯
It makes sense to add a overpass but in some places an overpass is very hard to build maybe because it can be in a very tight area or even it couldn’t be built due to effects in the construction of it And it will be a multibillionare project To do that to EVERY single crossing And the government can afford that as they are literally in debt I would probably recommend checking the train schedules for that area and get over the tracks BEFORE the train
Yes, railroad crossings are very dangerous. Here in Italy we've got an vast railroad network, but we're removing RR crossing with alternative road infrstraucture. In the last years we removed aorund 80 crossing per year, so we had less then 11 people are killed each year on average. It's still a high number, but I think they'll get lower soon.
Seems reasonable to a point for freight and passemger to share a row with gentile curves and good population for added grade separation rather than needing to diplicate improvements on both lines (read this NC?).
Grade separation are great but expensive as everybody already pointed that out, you also got factor idiots who crash in to the bridge I’m from uk and our railway brifpdges are constantly being put out of action due to idiot driver either crashing in to it our driving vehicles that are to high for it. It has to be basically education and a strict enforcement of penalties when do dangerous manouvers
Really my only complaint is that Railroad safety is EASILY overlooked it's only when a car hits a train and someone dies or when a derailment happens is when people seem to give a damn. I usually don't type this kind of stuff because I don't want to start a knife fight but if people gave railroad respect and not play chicken with the train a lot of this can be avoided. There have been reports of trains derailing because the engineer threw the train into the emergency and then people wanted to pin the blame on the Railroad when in reality it was the person on the tracks that caused it.
Trains have the right-of-way at crossings because the railroad was an earlier form of transportation than the automobile. Ships have the right-of-way over railroads and automobiles because marine shipping is older than both rail and autos.
Maglev is happening in Japan, dunno what you're talking about. That shit can reach airliner speeds. Only a handful of miles are built & undergoing testing to my knowledge thus far. Hyperloops though, are dead-end tech. (Will edit as video goes on) There are more ways to deal with crossings than just "getting rid of them", plus you forgot a major headache with some. Sure you can put a bridge up in the middle of Missouri, and you get a new issue. May I introduce for those unfamiliar, the *tornado.* You just swapped impatience, with desperation. Now instead of possibly saving lives by eliminating that crossing, you put more folks at risk because they have apartments, or mobile homes. *NO YOU CANNOT USE THE BRIDGE ABUTMENTS AS A SAFE SPACE!* The bridge creates a wind tunnel, which has sucked folk out from under the bridge during tornadoes. If you're keeping the tracks at grade, and building a bridge over, then depending on the design, maybe one could integrate a storm shelter, but if you're going under, what about flooding? And what about industries who need the road, and rail to be at the same level? I must also point out that tornadoes have dislodged bridges for both road & rail, if not having just collapsed them entirely. If you MUST get rid of the crossing, make it as low profile as possible, and integrate as many amenities for the local community as needed based on region. If you must demolish houses, businesses, etc, offer double the property value (still probably not gonna go well with some of the locals), and provide temporary housing until new houses are built, or that family is relocated to an existed vacant property at or double the current property value, and make it as part of a mutually benefiting project, by providing those countless of towns WITHOUT commuter rail with commuter rail. Etc. FOr now though, untill anyone has better ideas on how to make it a law that one must have a basic understanding of everything in order to drive, your solution is only a pipe dream, and a very expensive, mentally, politically, & socially destructive one at that.
Correct, there aren't in Rhode Island, in fact that where the Acela can run at its top speed, at least for a time. All of the crossings are in New London County, Connecticut, so it's an oddly local issue there.
Something that would work is put spike strips into the road around where the crossbuck is painted on the road when train comes spikes raise when train passes they lower. Now if people want to Try to beat the train there gonna need a new set of tires obviously set them far enough back that someone doesn’t blow there tires and get stuck on the tracks that way
Brilliant! Why would you put something in the road to deflate the tires of a vehicle, resulting in an undesired vehicle immobilized and fouling a track with a train approaching? Are you incapable of forward thoughts? A first semester law student would gladly take a wrongful death suit stripping you and your city of as much money you can imagine.
The third track project on the LIRR main line eliminated all eight grade crossings west of Hicksville station and created underpasses in areas around the Westbury and New Hyde Park stations. This was necessary to allow improvement of service in preparation for the opening of the Grand Central LIRR terminal. While there are no plans to eliminate the grade crossings of the LIRR main line east of Hicksville, there are about six crossings west of NY 110 that should be eliminated.
Suburbanites: "They need to do something about this railroad crossing it takes literally FOREVER to cross the tracks when there's a train... and those horns at night!" Also suburbanites: "They can't grade separate the crossing! What about the disruption from the closure and dust and debris?????" PS I heard a couple of people say you should do a collab with Alan Fisher or City Nerd. How about a collab with RM Transit also? He'd bring a Canadian perspective!
Copied from my community post on the matter:
Hey everybody! Just wanted to thank you all for watching, and while I'm happy with how the video went and how it's performing, I also want to address a very valid criticism of it that has been brought up several times.
The majority of the video, if not almost all of it, is focused on the concept of grade separations and what it can do for a railroad or transit line, but very little of it was dedicated to how to improve crossings that will never see grade separations for reasons that are rather obvious in context. The line is lesser used. The line is handling trains that would have a hard time with a grade separation in certain contexts. The geography doesn't allow for it to work well, or at all. The line is a light rail line that should be close to ground level in a lot of circumstances. The region or the railroad either doesn't have the money or doesn't want to spend it on such a project. There's a lot of reasons not to grade separate as much as there are reasons to do so as well. It's something that lingered in the back of my mind as I edited it, and when I released it, I knew that point was going to come up. The main point of it was that in the context of high frequency (both regional passenger rail and ideally busy freight corridors, though that's definitely way more dependent on local circumstances) and especially high speed rail corridors, grade separation is either desirable or outright mandatory for safety, service and traffic reasons, but also to demonstrate the challenges involved with undertaking such a project, both for an individual project and across a whole network.
As of right now, alongside my other two projects in the works, I'm devoting time to research ideas that were brought up about improving railroad crossings that either shouldn't or can't be grade separated for various reasons, and will be writing up a script for a follow up video to be released down the line.
Alongside that, I want to say thank you to everyone who participated and commented your critique and suggestions. It's reassuring to see that the people who watch my videos don't just uncritically praise my stuff and are suggesting good ways that both I can improve my craft and how we can improve our transportation systems without going for the "nuclear option" as it were.
Again, thank you all. I am not blind to your critique, and I want to take suggestions to heart. And if ever I don't, and/or if ever I make a mistake like that, feel free to call me out, and make suggestions.
Yeah I would definitely say the Red Lion Rd crossing on the West Trenton line between Bethayres and Philmont has geography that isn't conducive to grade separation, and SEPTA sure doesn't have the money it would take to change that.
At the risk of sounding heartless, most of the victims of train crashes are Darwin Award winners. It's ridiculously easy in 99.99% of cases to not get hit by an oncoming train.
An American Conductor here: Most of the near misses and Train-Person/Train-Road Vehicle collisions I have witnessed have been people in a rush, running gates and ignoring other safety measures (Engine Horn & Bell, Gates & gate mounted Bells, Etc). In about 98% of the accidents between a train and a car or person along the right of way, the person that got hit by the train is at fault as they ignored all the safety measures. REMEMBER TO LOOK, LISTEN, LIVE
P.S.: Elevating or tunneling under areas in super expensive for both the railroad and the town that the railroad runs thru except in certain areas like the NEC where it is worth awhile anyways to allow for faster passenger service. Railroads have been around for a whole lot longer than cars, most railroad lines where there long before the road was.
There are also lots of barely-hidden suicides on railrd tracks. A line in the Silicon Valley area has lots of pedestrian deaths connected to kids getting poor grades. The kids are from families who insist that their kids get THE top grades so that they can go to good schools and get good jobs, and not be stuck in jobs as retail cashiers or even auto mechanics.
@@Messicrafter Belgian train driver here. According to the offical stats we are given during our training, nearly 75% of accidents are imputable to s***cides. The rest are people deliberately ignoring signals and barriers, thinking they can outrun a train at full speed. The number of accidents that aren't directly caused by the victim is so small, it isn't even statistically significant.
The plan is still to get rid of each and every crossing in the country altogether. On top of that, Infrabel (the company that owns the tracks) is installing barriers and fences around certain hotspots, and even thermal cameras with 24/7 supervision to remove particularly stubborn trespassers before they get themselves hurt or worse. Despite all that, an accident occurs every 3 days on average, in a country roughly the size of Maryland. People just aren't aware of how dangerous trains are.
@@Messicrafterelevating and tunneling allows for automation thus reducing operational costs meaning more service and better service for everyone
@@paulbrower are those families being asked about how they are feeling after such an incident? About how proud they are that they killed their own child by pressuring them that much?
My favorite example of grade separation is the Norfolk Southern-Gregson Street Overpass in Durham, NC. The Norfolk Southern-Gregson Street Overpass in Durham was built in 1940 but was originally designed in the 1920s. When the bridge was built, it had a clearance of 11 foot 8 inches, that was standard at the time. Since 1973, the standard clearance for bridges was increased to a minimum height of 14 feet (4.27 m). However it took until 2019 for the North Carolina Railroad Company, which owns the bridge and tracks, to raise the bridge by 8 inches (20 cm) from 11 feet 8 inches to 12 feet 4 inches (3.76 m). So because it had a clearance of 11 feet 8 inches for such a long time, despite numerous warning signs about the low clearance, a large number of trucks, buses, and RVs have collided with the overpass at high speed, tearing off roof fixtures, and at times shearing off the trucks' roofs, thus earning the bridge, the nickname "Can Opener"!
And for grade-separation of the LA Metro, it helps that system uses many of the former ROWs of the Pacific Electric Red Car and Los Angeles Railway Yellow Car lines, which operated between the late 19th century and the 1960s, as well as running in the median of a highway like the C Line! Another example of a system using old ROW is the MetroLink Blue and Red Lines in St Louis! On the Red Line, trains use the former Wabash/Norfolk & Western Railroad's Union Depot line that once brought passenger trains from Ferguson to Union Station. When the Red Line makes a stop at the Delmar Loop station, it is located just below the original Wabash Railroad's Delmar Station building! On the Blue Line, it follows a former Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis (TRRA)/Rock Island railroad right of way. Downtown, Red and Blue Line trains use the St Louis Freight Tunnel and the lower deck of Eads Bridge to cross the Mississippi to Illinois! The Eads Bridge was completed in 1874, and was the first bridge across the Mississippi south of the Missouri River. Earlier bridges were located north of the Missouri, but none of the earlier bridges survive, which means that the Eads Bridge is also the oldest bridge on the river!
I feel for operators having to deal with grade crossings and other vehicles in general. NEVER underestimate the power of a train! Several drivers underestimate Brightline in South Florida, thinking they can beat the train at the crossing, and that's how many crashes there happen! It reminds me of the videos I watch of people and vehicles trying to either beat or get too close to the Prague trams. It also reminds me of a Hudson-Bergen Light Rail crash that happened years ago (in May 2017) in Jersey City when a fire truck was speeding when it reached a light-rail crossing. It didn't stop, and the firefighters were injured because the fire truck hit the light-rail thanks to their mistake. Respect to both tram and train operators alike for what they have to deal with on a daily basis. You need to have a strong mental state with everything thrown at ya first hand. People have to remember that trains and trams aren't just transit, they're absolute tanks!
A great example of a big grade-separation project is the LIRR's Babylon Branch! On the LIRR, the Babylon Branch runs along NY State Route 27 or Sunrise Highway, however, the Babylon Branch came way before the highway as it originally opened in the 1860s while the highway first opened in the mid-1920s. So the highway follows the trains, not the other way around. When it got its start in the 1860s as part of the South Side Railroad of Long Island, it was all grade crossings, and this became a problem as Sunrise Highway got built and more people moved to the south shore of Long Island, leading to busier crossings. So a mega project was launched in the 1950s to build the stations on elevated viaducts, with the last station along the branch to be elevated was Massapequa Park in 1980. To supplement Route 27, there is parking to lure people off the highway and different NICE and Suffolk Transit buses serve the stations as well, with the addition of Jones Beach bus service from Freeport making it possible to go to Jones Beach concerts by transit!
Railroad Crossings are good for only 1 reason. They're cheaper to make (initially) than other kinds of crossing. The ongoing costs (of both running lights/bells/gates, and the loss of equipment, private vehicles, and death) not so much.
All those combined are still much, much cheaper than building and maintaining an overpass. However I agree that safety should be put over cost here
Ye tho their can be a compromise were i live most the busy roads have been grade separated along main lines leaving smaller less traveled roads still at grade
Also due to the length and alignment of railways it’s easier to move the cars out of the way instead. When the LIRR upgraded the tracks between Hicksville and Mineola they built 11 grade separations all putting cars underneath saving money and months of construction on realignment.
Well, they made sense in the 19th century. It is Network Rail policy to gradually remove level crossings.
It is difficult to remove crossings actually in town centres (e.g. Poole or Bamber Bridge). Outright closure, and replacement with a footbridge, can be an option but not if it’s a major bus route.
Ely station had both a level crossing and an underpass (the underpass being for low vehicles only). The level crossing is now gone (the underpass remains).
@@danielcarlin7784 Modest solution: close off most of the rail crossings, replacing a few with overcrossings. Realign roads to reduce conflicts with railroads.
We have an ongoing project here in Norway too, to get rid of level crossings. Only last year, a tractor trailer got stuck on one, and got struck by a commuter style train. The trailer (and the boat it carried) was a write-off, the train got repaired, at a cost. Nobody got hurt, but it exemplifies the inherent danger of level crossings, and the need to make those that are part of "major" roads completely level, to avoid such situations (examples of stretch limos and tractor trailers getting stuck on poorly constructed crossings are too numerous to mention, and, they are, obviously, all over RUclips).
Excellent channel!😄
I am Melbourne born and bred and talking from my own experiences the level crossing removal project is the biggest investment ever made towards infrastructure in this state
You mean to say me in my car is not more important than the 250+ people on the train????????????????
In many cases [SEPTA's one- and two-track lines are good examples], the grade crossings are more of a danger and inconvenience to drivers than to rail passengers. Crossing elimination is a win-win.]
I know I can't believe the communist have priority. Why would we ever let them go ahead of our Free American SUV's and God-given right to a truck 🇺🇲
@@harveywachtel1091 I've always thought they could be as much of a danger to drivers as they are to rail passengers. If you want an example of how, just look at the Valhalla Metro-North train accident of 2015. That could've been easily prevented by eliminating not only the grade crossing with the Harlem Line, but also the Taconic State Parkway.
This video is extremely well produced and thought out. I was even going to comment about Melbourne’s level crossing removal project but you beat me to it! Great job
Thanks! Melbourne is definitely an interesting case study to look into in that regard, and it shows what a lot of systems in the U.S. could be. Whether someone from Melbourne takes that as a good thing or a bad thing, I'm not too sure, but the system there seems at least to be pretty good generally and seems to be getting better, so might be good to take some inspiration from our Aussie friends! (and yes, I did have a lot of Taitset's videos in the background as I edited this video)
What an awesome video! And a really good point about safety when there are stoplights and other unsynchronized distractions nearby.
And I think YOU are delightfully nerdy too! 😉
Lots of train tracks go through downtowns and a bridge would make it real ugly and there is over 100,000 grade crossings
Remember this, folks. Play stupid games 🎮, win stupid prizes 🏆.
99.99% of the time, the train ALWAYS wins.
But… I really don’t wanna go that far, people were fatally killed, including children died by trains, from railroad crossings, especially exposure of health effects from various chemicals onboard if a deadly derailment occurs, Reminds to the trouble from the East Palestine’s disaster just like last year, it was a recipe of true danger for freight trains.
.01% case: 1999 City of New Orleans derailment. I was appalled to learn that the truck driver who caused it was never charged.
It also gives emergency vehicles better access having separation. Traffic lights they can work their way through, but level crossings, a house can burn down or a person can die waiting for a train to clear.
Rio Grande Plan mentioned!!!! Salt Lake City needs it's own Train Box and this project makes it a reality!! Hope to continue to see this plan talked about more and make it mainstream!
Unfortunately, in some places, grade-separation just isn't possible. Not just because of money, but because of land elevation and surrounding structures. And on a side note, if people don't like hearing loud train horns, TOUGH FUCKING SHIT!!! DON'T LIVE NEAR AN ACTIVE RAILROAD!!!
If it will take too much time and money to add a grade separation, there's always the option of adding properly controlled pedestrian level crossings. People are going to cross the tracks. Put a crossing instead of a fence.
I definitely agree with this in a lot of situations, though the Northeast Corridor itself is a lot more questionable.
With the overall desire to convert that line to true high speeds, pedestrian level crossings have the same problem as traditional crossings in that crossings put a hard limit on speeds, currently at 110, but possibly 125 mph with the introduction of new crossing systems suitable to that speed. Not bad in of itself, but when the end goal for the Corridor in the coming yeara and decades is 160mph for long portions of the route and approaching 200mph in sections according to the goals of the NEC Commission, the same problems will emerge again, just potentially more fatal if something goes wrong.
Again, I like this idea for a lot of lines, and a lot of regional and intercity lines would benefit from it, but for the Corridor in particular, not so much given the current goals for it.
Ye for most rail lines their will probably always be some crossings just doesnt make financial sense to grade separate every road along a line better to just focus on separating the most busy crossings
9:30 I'm going to have to steal that phrasing. 🤣
Railroad crossings with third rail are much more dangerous than those with overhead wires.
Stares at LIRR
Railroad crossings with a third rail aren't any different. Due to the way third-rail based systems are designed, you're going to have to have a gap in the rail for the crossing, otherwise it would stick up above the road level. Third rail setups with full-sized trains aren't like Lionel trains with the rail in the middle.
Ehh not really, where I live the 3rd rail just stops over the crossing, and the trains keep going since they’re long enough that the train will always be touching the 3rd rail somewhere. It’s still more dangerous in a way because if you walk off the crossing, over the uncomfortable wooden ridging designed to make it hard to walk on, and onto the tracks, you can be electrocuted, but the vast majority of the time they’re no different.
No not really, theres coverings for the third rail so the only way to get electrocuted is to touch under the covering which is hard to accidentally do. Also there is a gap
Dual gauge is dangerous?
LA Metro really is building some of the most / best grade separations in the country right now. every other railroad and transit agency should be looking to them for inspiration
Here in Sydney Australia we removed all of our crossings within the metro area, they were either engineered out with a tunnel / bridge or the lines were removed.
Some lines like Wawa have so many road crossings that most of the line would have to be elevated or depressed to eliminate them all--vastly too expensive.
I see great potential for your channel. Keep up the good work!
Once while driving a bus, a BNSF / Norfolk Southern grain train stopped with the last car still on the crossing while waiting for permission to enter a yard. It had to wait for two other freight trains before moving. It made me over an hour late. A couple of the routes I was assigned had to be cancelled.
Nice pictures of the SEPTA trains. I use to live in the Philly area.
I saw someone mentioned collab-ing with City Nerd, but I really think you should link up with Alan Fisher.
*also side note. I've been living in Philly for nearly 9 years and I never knew the trolleys crossed CSX freight tracks, that's insane!
The video doesn't mention when talking about Melbourne's grade separation projects that Melbourne has tram-train diamonds too, except that both the tram and the train use overhead wires so a complex power switching system controlled by a signal box needs to be used to change the voltage of the wires over the crossing. These tram-train diamonds are some of the most dangerous and were some of the first to be removed, and now only a few remain on the electrified suburban network. They're really cool pieces of infrastructure but aren't that practical though
The skyrail technique is the best love it
Tbh, i get kind of annoyed when people say things like “grade separate all the way!” simply because, it’s not always the best option. Now of course, grade separation is a good thing, but if a passenger railway has a limited budget, i think their money would be better spent electrifying or improving frequency. Grade separation should be reserved for only the busiest or most dangerous crossings, we don’t need to grade separate every intersection. Just look to switzerland and japan who DO have grade separated lines, but still have exceptional trains, because they only spent money on crossings that REALLY needed grade separation, and spent the rest of the money on their trains and tracks. Overall, grade separation is good, but it shouldn’t be a railway’s main focus (unless they’ve already built a perfect railway)
Agreed with this point pretty much to a T. It's good to do it, especially for busy commuter rail and obviously for high speed intercity routes, and the obviously dangerous examples but there's a lot of places that it will not happen at for obvious reasons in context. I plan on following up on this video with a second one about how to improve the ones that obviously won't be grade separated, and I've even seen some ideas floated about here that seem to be quite interesting in that regard.
Yeah like grade separation in urban areas is a good idea, while in rural areas, it’s not necessary for example
I live "on" Long Island, and the hamlet I live "in" has 3 grade crossing intersections going East before you reach the station. It's a total nightmare during rush hour with cars backed up on either until the train passes. The situation gets worse at the main drag where the station located. The area is under major redevelopment with new infill apartments, townhouses, entertainment venues, retail, and offices. The township is trying to solve the serious housing shortage, as well as, encouraging a commuter focused walkable neighborhood. However, this being Long Island, people are still going to need and want a car. But the traffic is going to get worse until the LIRR and Township work together, and build a grade separated crossing at the station .
How? Its LIRR, the trains are at most like 5 cars long. Lived at the Jersey shore all my life were there is no grade separation at all and we never have issues with the trains causing traffic even with about 10-15 in a 2 mile span.
@@dexecuter18 Standard LIRR trains are 8 to 12 cars. With 3 grade crossing within .25 miles of each other. The traffic problem is particularly bad due to an office park, an elementary and high school, and shopping strip located within feet of the 3 crossings. The LIRR had the same problem with the stops at Mineola, Carle Place and Merlin Avenue. The crossings severely interfere the flow of traffic. This was especially true with Mineola which is at the junction of 2 main lines. There were 4 grade crossing near that station. In an area that has an university hospital, a large Catholic high school, and is the seat for Nassau County all within walking distance of the station. Also, the numerous accidents at occured these crossings. The problems were only corrected when it was decided to add a 3rd set of tracks to increase capacity, and grade separate these choke points.
Pedestrian only overpasses, whether over I-95 or the NEC, can become a safety concern. They are essentially a big, long cage where person v person violence can happen, and they need to be a cage to prevent things being thrown at passing cars or trains.
As for grade separation projects, it's easier to fund when the tracks and roads are owned by the same entities. It gets complicated when private companies get involved. Look at the famous 11-foot-8 road underpass in North Carolina. It took decades of can-opener accidents to get it raised 8" - and it still gets hit by trucks. Furthermore, given the amount of differed maintenance we have on so much of our infrastructure, from water mains to bridges, I don't see government dollars going to an Australian style program here. Not even in Connecticut, where it could have been done as part of the New Haven to Boston electrification.
Melbourne's level crossing removal project has some really interesting techniques for removing level crossings such as the skyrail technique which elevates the entire line. I bet the NIMBYs will love that one.
don't forget the cut open culverts which lower the line as well
On Long Island a few years ago, there were some railroad crossings that were closed and even eliminated as part of the LIRR Third Track Project on the Main Line in much of Nassau County, New York, although the bridges under Merillon Avenue station really should've been widened. Some of the same issues of NIMBYism delayed the improvements there, and I'd like to tell you that if it can be done on the LIRR, it can be done with SEPTA, but I see that with SEPTA it would be much more difficult.
New subscriber, always supporting PA based infrastructure channels.
I rode the Providence->NY section of the Northeast Regional for the first time recently and I had no idea it had grade crossings until passing them. I was like "Wait doesn't Acela use this track?"
Also, the train ended up reaching Philly late. They had to hold up the Pennsylvanian so a bunch of us didn't miss it.
It is definitely jarring seeing grade crossings from an Acela when you're used to none of it down south, that's for sure. I'm reminded though that the part of the line from New Haven to Boston was only electrified in the late 90s, and I remember seeing engine swaps as a kid going up to Boston in the late 90s, and given the nature of a lot of projects like these, I'm not entirely shocked that's the case. It's still crazy to think of though, especially in New London itself with that 25mph curve. Connecticut definitely needs a ton of improvements, and the crossings are one of them.
Also whatever happened to the 2x Daily Pennsylvanian that there was a lot of talk about last year?
@@nitehawk86 That's still happening, but wasn't going to be immediate, since apparently it requires infrastructure work to be done on the Norfolk Southern owned part of the old Pennsy main line from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh, so I'm not expecting it to happen for a couple of years. The infrastructure work is fully funded and apparently currently underway, I imagine mostly signal related and hopefully adding more tracks back to the line that were ripped up, but haven't seen a confirmed date on when it will be ready
@@SteveGettingAroundPhillyit would have been especially hard to get shocked on the NEC before they electrified it
A good example of a quiet zone crossing is the LIRR Port Washington branch crossing Little Neck Road, where tracks carrying two trains an hour each way pass very close to houses. As part of the deal to eliminate train horn signals, they installed four-quadrant gates and reconfigured the street to eliminate an awkward left turn across the tracks into a parallel road. The community here is pretty wealthy and has plenty of influence.
I would have hoped that Rydal residents here in SEPTA-land would be influential enough to do something about SEPTA train 302, which wakes me at 06:30 each morning, but I guess things work differently here than in NYC.
As a European I find it absurd that trains honk, ring bells and flash lights while the crossings blare and flash non stop as well in the US. Here trains will only sound their horns at unprotected crossings, while the crossings usually only ring for a few seconds until the gates close.
Seems all the added noise of American crossing serve no purpose other than annoying residents since so many people just ignore them anyway...
We used to have grade separation projects like Melbourne's. Especially between the wars "grade crossing elimination districts" were a thing. The railroads were supposed to show some predetermined level of improvements periodically. Unfortunately the railroads "shifted gears" about 1945, and while the new rolling stock for passengers at that time was the best ever the railroads were already "selling off the main line" as well as a lot of the new rolling stock to parties south of the border. When they "built" the so-called "Newark Light Rail" (an extension of the erstwhile Newark City Subway) they added 5 grade crossing to the 3.4-mile line and "street running" downtown - through a grade crossing elimination district which they saw fit to create a separate Environmental Assessment for: they declared a FONSI on the street running and tagged the grade crossing elimination district as a "historic resource". This kind of MO has found it's way into the transit agencies from the previous railroad proprietors, particularly Amtrak as the direct offshoot of legacy carriers. Septa was spared for a while - and I know the argument about cost is a convincing one - especially if you select projects like that one around Norristown designed to be as expensive and little-used as possible. It looks like those stations along the Wawa line were always expected to carry on in that form long-term. It's problematic there where you have two big crossings with a river in between. Of course there's always a best solution (Maybe a cut for some of it?) but nothing like that's likely to occur any time soon. A bridge cutting across those two big crossings would be pretty unpopular. It takes a lot of study with trial a error to come up with the least intrusive solution. Of course one person could do that in a few months. They'll want close to a $billion just to do the design.
Ok, immediate subscribe! Great info and depth of research. This channel better get big quickly! Well researched, balanced, and objectively unassailable or at least highly defensible positions - so basically a unicorn rail transit-focused channel. We need more creators like this one! Everyone please give this guy a like and subscribe!
Please do one on Caltrain and/or California rail improvement in general. Caltrain is electrifying, grade separating, increasing frequencies to 15 minutes, and eyeing 110 mph on a commuter rail/S-bahn service - unheard-of stuff in American rail transit and even cutting edge by international standards. And no one in the rail community is talking about it.
It seems that California has been investing in rail like no other region over the last 30 years. They have incredible results going from nothing in the 80s to best or second best in the nation in 30 years. It's the most dramatic turnaround in American rail transit ever, and no one is talking about it. None of the creators can get around their image of California that they remember from 80s movies.
In many parts of Europe, grade/level crossings are augmented with a green light to indicate if the system is functioning properly. Sidewalks, footpaths & trails often have a fence or stile which force pedestrians & cyclists to slow down & zigzag around barrier, also looking for oncoming trains while navigating barrier.
We have literally created quad gated crossings and people still are getting hits. Bridges are so expensive.
How about a mile long freight train that cuts the city in half and comes to a stop, then for the next hour or so backs up or moves forward? Kalamazoo, Michigan, I'm looking at you. Been a problem for decades!
Where you are that's what is called switching the GDLK does a lot of it at Kalamazoo Yard in downtown. It is to make sure equipment makes it to the correct Place
Tie downs will occur due to Rail being less maintained and train traffic being slower due to rough rail
@@railfanmaximstill7279 All the more reason to have grade separation. Calgary has a downtown rail line and a nearby rail yard, but has grade separation at nearly all crossings in that whole area.
No. Not all crossing need to be removed. Some don't have enough traffic like rural areas or not enough trains causing problems such as, by the time one or the other gets heavier traffic the other isn't their. Also for equipment that need to run on tracks like hi rail vehicles, how would they get on if all crossings were removed? And plus I like crossings anyways and at least keep mine around if it dose happen.
It would be neat to see a collab with you and CityNerd.
Next time you're out and about, look at the intersection and try and imagine how you'd fix it. Then how much in dollars and finally who's going to pay for it.
You're welcome
this is what OBB does every time they upgrade a line, especially if they want to make it "Hochleistungsstrecke", aka "high performance line", which means a line with lots of traffic and 200 kph for IC/EC/long distance trains... for example the Marchegger Ostbahn did get rid of most level crossings by either making underpasses or overpasses for the road traffic, and keeping level crossings only at like 2-3 places, which are either within Vienna (and the trains dont go faster than 80 kph then) and like one is near Vienna on a slower road :)
on the Wien-Floridsdorf - Ganserndorf - Marchegg line, they did the same... and the Pottendorfer line between Vienna and Wiener Neustadt not only is almost completely grade-separated (I believe, again, that the only crossing is still within Wiener Neustadt near a station, so the trains dont go fast there) and is elevated... even new stations are on elevated platforms
and the OBB does this not only on mainlines, but wherever there is more traffic with higher speeds... cars dont have to watch/listen for incoming trains, and trains dont have to slow down... as for horns, here they mostly arent required to blow the horns, also cos of the noise... on some local lines, there is a sign for rail drivers to drive on sight and slower, so they have time to stop just in case
but yeah, if a new line is built, grade separation should be a no-brainer... if an upgrade is being made, an underpass/overpass should be among the priorities... and if there is time/money, grade crossings should gradually be removed
As someone who used to commute on the SEPTA Wilmington Line to Ridley Park the pedestrian crossing hits home. It is horrifically bad especially at the stations because so many the crossings were to simply get to the otherside where the bus stop may be can be down a ways down a ton fo steps under a tunnel used by cars going way to fast then back up a ton of steps and to the opposite side just to get the train going to the right direction. Which I guess at least there was a pedestrian crossing but it was far easier for the dozens of pedestrians to just skimper across the 4 tracks to the otherside. If you watched the overhead lines you would hear them shake before the trains came. If SEPTA simply put an overhead crossing or one that wasn't just as likely to kill you as the speeding drivers were maybe people would had used that. I haven't been back there in decades now but it was bad then.
Fortunately most of the crossings where I live now people tend to obey them but they can be annoying. CSX has a switching yard right by a major one and their trains will block traffic for an hour at a time just to do some rail switching without a care in the world. People complain all the time and that I see people swerving between the gates after it becomes clear the train is stopped so they can hook on more car or something. I see a few crossings near lights though with no gates and I shake my head as I see drives stop right on the tracks at the light. clearly these are barely used tracks at all but the crossing bars still exist and look maintained and you will see the occasional car parked nearby so someone is dropping and picking up cars...
Here in Argentina we're eliminating a Lot of RR crossings, replacing them with bridges and underpasses to prevent accidents and save time for pedestrians and motorists.
In northern Illinois they're putting double gates and lane separator on busy crossing's and putting highway overpasses where practical
With regard to a potential Secane rebuild for a grade separation, if the recent rebuild was done with FTA $, SEPTA may need to either wait many years for it to be beyond its useful life per FTA guidelines, or repay the FTA.
Another thing is many passenger and frieght share the lines, so if you elevate the passenger stations, you're going to have to elevate industries or widen the alignment to allow freight to go down to service them. Probably the best way to introduce the garde seperation is when ever the municipality is doing construction fixing the road and drainage and other things to then lower the road that say 12-14 feet
there’s one at grade crossing that i cross when going to church where it meets a high capacity road next to an intersection that meets a high capacity road. i hate it. last time i drove there, a pickup truck’s bed in front of me was on the track bcuz he/she misjudged the amount of space between the railroad and the red light
The safest option works but would be extremely expensive & that would be grade elimination/separation. Raise the track's right-of-way above or below Street level. That way traffic flow and pedestrians remain safe & unobstructed. Passenger & Freight would greatly benefit from this. All railroads in NYC have been upgraded like this (except one) although we have no high speed rail services (Acela-Amtrak doesn't run high speed thru the city). This will save lives for sure.
The Expo/E and Blue/A Lines in Los Angeles are notorious for accidents involving trains vs motorists or pedestrians at grade crossings. Many of them are fatal.
“You wonder why anyone would be dumb enough to try it in the first place”
South Florida drivers: “Am I a joke to you?”
No grade crossings would make it easier for me to sleep on my trips from DC to Pitt or Chicago, the horn is the main thing that wakes me up. (Everyone wins)
This was a great video, also reminding me I need to ride up north and check things out.
Over here in the United Kingdom the West Coast Mainline in the UK is fully grade separated the West Coast Mainline got rid of all of the level Crossings I 2004
“Over 300 people are killed every year in the US in incidents at railroad crossings.”
…wait…that’s it?
While it's a small number to be sure and money-wise it's not worth it to do lots of grade-separation to save lives (like the bit in Fight Club), it's worth it for train speed (like the NEC, Keystone) and traffic disruption.
And 45,000/year killed in car crashes
@@andyinsdca I mean the main point here is to separate main arterial roads, where by far most people cross anyway and even eliminate some of the redundant crossings. (crossings with opportunities nearby)
@@magnusaugust8489 So... what happens anyway?
I've never seen a grade crossing on anything bigger than secondary road unless its an industrial spur were the train stops anyway.
@dexecuter18 there's lots of level crossings in close proximity in areas like, for example, Brightline, where they are known for fatalities
3:53 To put that into perspective, 73 tons is about as heavy as the M1 Abrams, the United States Military's Main Battle Tank.
There's a DANGEROUS intersection in Charlotte, NC called Scaleybark Station.. it's a station for the Light Rail, but the station is in the median of the road. Similar situation even if the light rail is stopped.
I'm from Germany, and in one of our biggest cities, Frankfurt, there is a double-tracked line in the middle of a road leading into the city which at some point disappears into a tunnel, and at the busiest times, on that track there is a U-Bahn train every 2-3mins. There are a lot of grade crossings on that section, and the U-Bahns regularly have to wait for the crossing streets to get empty and to get a „green light“ so they can continue. In my opinion, that section should be rebuilt to fully underground as soon as possible.
Eschersheimer Landstraße if anyone wants to find the street in question.
Though in that case, I'm actually wondering on whether elevating it is more useful, considering that the line has to go up not only above a river but also the Main-Weser railway alongside having the advantage of keeping it a dual carriageway but with better pedestrian access (of course, such a project also would have to be discussed with the residents throughout).
Awesome video! I live in the Philadelphia area and travel on Septa. I noticed places like Exton, Langhorne to Secane and many more in this video. It sure would take a lot of work to have all trains elevated like NEC and Keystone lines mentioned with the lack of crossings. Which I actually knew from living in the area. I live by the Norfolk Southern line that goes west to Harrisburg, Altoona, Pittsburgh and very few to Chicago daily. I don’t get waken up by the trains much anymore as I am used to it. And last, why wasn’t places like La Grange Kentucky not mentioned when they go right in the middle of the street? That also could be part of this video. And Philadelphia area could be shot with RT 101 Media Trolley (Future D1 Septa Metro) on State Street as a good example. That could be part of another video for *train and trolley traffic in the middle of the street*
Instead of quiet zones, maybe times when you can blow horns? for example 9 am - 7 pm. It would help get rid of some of the noise complaints.
Connect towns
Build ubanisation grid
Let grid fill in
Make midway stations for the new urbanised core
Elevate track
Profit
62 crossings received $570 million to be removed. The money mostly covers the full project, however some of the money is being used strictly for planning. That means those projects to remove a crossing are priced between $10-$15 million a piece at minimum (AP News). Quiet zones cost at minimum 250k and could cost as high as $1 million (palm beach post, mlive news). Local governments have to foot the bill to construct them and the railroads are tasked with maintaining them. I agree with the sentiment of making it safer but financially it’s just not practical. Freight owns the vast majority of the lines and it’s like pulling teeth just to get them to install simple safety measures like more defect detectors, much less remove a crossing.
I saw two kids taking they bikes over the fence over the track, then over fence in front of a police/ fire station. People don't onder stand that train dangerous l.
Can you imagine the cost of building grade separations for the 200,000 grade crossings in the US?
In most cases, grade separation wouldn’t even be needed such as in rural areas which see little traffic
Where I live the rail goes under the roads, the station is located at road level, but you go down to the platform.
Trains were here first, long before cars.
Penndot is supposed to start a study on Woodbourne road on the west Trenton line due to the backups CSX causes when switching the Woodbourne yard
8:00 I'll give two examples of these Old Nebraska 275 (Old Highway 275) & Downing Street (look on google maps for both examples) and 23rd and Somers (Gateless for both 23rd Street and Somers Avenue) both have a traffic light that does not correspond with an approaching Train (BNSF owns the 23rd street and Somers Avenue crossings and goes 25 mph through them) UP owns the one on down and goes 30 to 50 mph through it
The West Coast Mainline is a Electrified line
In switzerland only the small lines still have level crossings
Are they hard to do? Like there are a ton on long island that need to be grad separated.
Expensive
In the late 70s and early 80s, all railroad crossings were removed on the mainlines, here in Denmark. Without exceptions.
Local rail lines has crossings. Guarded crossings are without "horny" sounds. Unguarded crossing, typically dirt roads for the farmer, a single whistle will do. It is a high pitch whistle. Noise pollution is a big thing here, very big.
I wonder, if the US does have any concepts on improving the safety of railroad crossings, or if there is only the usual "tell drivers to care for the rules". Because here in Germany we had some surprising results. For example flashing lights are currently phased out in favor of a design almost identical to a traffic light - these have a MUCH higher compliance rate, because drivers see the flashing only as a warning and not as a stop sign.
Sadly, in a lot of cases, it seems like it does boil down to that. There has been some attempts to try, like with synchronizing intersection signals with the crossings, but nowhere near to the same extent as in other countries. The idea for the one that's similar to a traffic light is a new one even to me, and I'd be interested to see what what that can do at a crossing here. Given the fact that the railroads in the U.S. are privatized and really always have been except for public transit agencies and Amtrak, I'd imagine one brave public transit agency trying it, and if it works would slowly spread elsewhere, but in the near term, I'm definitely not holding my breath just yet.
That's super interesting! Do you happen to have any search terms to find this test and or results?
@@AMacProOwner what I've found is a list on collisions based on the typ of safety. Now a lot of old flashing lights are replaced by the traffic light type - sadly I couldn't find how many. But the interesting thing are 22 collisions with flashing and just two with traffic light for the years 2014-2016 each.
Have gotten into watching railfan videos from the 60s and 70s and one or two of the east coast covered the NEC under the Pennsylvania/Penn Central era and it was just odd seeing areas with grade crossings with the only other protection being several standard yellow diamond road signs stating warnings of high speed trains.
In my opinion, it's mainlines which benefit the most from grade separations since they do get quite a bit of trains and the benefits generally outweight the risks. Branch line OTOH tend to be two tracks at most but often one track and also are ligher on traffic, passenger trains also tend to be shorter (it's common to run twin units if not a single railcar on them) and speed will be limited on these lines anyway. It also makes reactivating old lines without resorting to light rail rules (such as BOStrab in Germany) easier.
I think what makes level crossings in the US particularly notable is just how common they are and how long the trains can be. Even ignoring the steriotype that American drivers just suck, both of them do encourage racing the train to the point where I can understand why they're doing it even if can kill them. For example, the examples Alan Fisher has shown on his Brightline video are ridiculous and really, many should be just removed with no replacement or at most build a pedestrian overpass and conversely, the many (freight) railways tend to park their trains on crossings with no nearby alternative for the road traffic.
One point you did mentioned which tend to be forgotten quite a bit is how railways can divide neighbourhoods as much as motorways (of course, you can always argue about that railways overall are narrower than the equivalent motorway but still, same phenomen), though I wish you could have mentioned that the grade separation for cars is overall expensive.
Shifter made a video about weird bicycle infra a couple weeks ago and the 4 Street SE in Calgary is a good example of the necessary cost of grade separation where there was only enough space for four lanes for cars and a sidewalk so bicycles had to be redirected to the latter when it could have been only two car lanes + bike lanes + sidewalk if not being closed to car traffic at all because there are so many underpasses for them already. Conversely, pedestrian infra (and bike infra to a lesser extend) is much less expensive thanks to lower clearances and the resulting costs (at most its the installation of lifts for wheelchair users with the increased maintenance costs but even that isn't much more space intensive than car underpasses) which is a good thing because they can't cover the same distance with your feet as your car can (else you get car dependent suburbia).
Don't be idiots around the crossings. Problem Solved
It's never good when they say a date.
Also great composition at 13:51
For somebody who claims to live along the West Chester Line (yes, I'm calling it that-fight me), you seem to have an awful lot of footage from the Reading side, especially around Elkins Park.
As somebody who lives within horn-distance of Jenkintown, I am HIGHLY suspicious.
As you may know (eye daggers), there are two grade crossings near me. One is a private crossing for a substation that may or may not be closed in the not-to-distant future. The other is Rices Mill Road.
While I do see some lines of cars at Rices Mill, the only real complaints anybody has is the giant utility trucks squeezing down a side road to the private crossing.
Considering that the first video I made for this channel is an hour long docunentary about the West Chester Line (which I call it that as well), and the recent stories about trying to get it back to West Chester for the first time since 1986, I definitely have a lot more of the West Chester Line in my archives. Mostly went to the Reading side in this video simply that's where most of the crossings are on the network, and I like to visit different locations since going along one line gets dull after a while, particularly one like the West Chester Line that I know like the back of my hand at this point having lived along it for 15 years. The stuff around Elkins Park was also deliberate to demonstrate the grade separations there on the main line.
@@SteveGettingAroundPhilly Sorry, for a bit of a late delay, but I re-found this going back through my comments looking for something else.
Those grade separations in Elkins Park are not really applicable. Those roads have (as far as I can tell) ALWAYS been grade-separated simply due to the terrain. Greenwood Avenue at Jenkintown Station and Easton Road at Glenside Station are the two most notable non-terrain related grade separations in the area as far as I can tell. After that, you have to go to North Hills and Penllyn to get to the next two obvious grade-crossing eliminations. There is also Ashbourne Road, which was simply closed and replaced with a pedestrian underpass.
Judging by the architecture (and date stamps), all of these were closed (and many other bridges replaced) in the early 1930s, concurrent with electrification.
In India we have a simple solution until all crossing are converted to underpasses or bridges, since the beginning of railways, the gates here enormous and strong piece of metal manually operated still to this day, and there is signal which before every crossing, until the gates are closed and locked by the gate operator, the signal is red. The gates close 3 min before train comes not like 30 se in US. Once we were chillin at 110kmph and had to stop behind a gat cuz of traffic. There are 2 yellow signal before the red signal so train has no problem to stop
There are a few problems.
-Grade separations are expensive to build. The city or rail line may not be able to afford it, especially small towns/lines.
-Clearance. It may be difficult to fit large trucks underneath, as the many overpass videos on RUclips can attest to.
-Geography. Building a grade separation may be physically impossible in some locations.
-Overcrowding. If a town can only have one or two of these, it will likely become congested with traffic while a train is passing, thus defeating the purpose.
My town does have two: one over a road and one over a walking path. The road one is almost a hundred years old and is in very poor condition as a result.
It seems that everyone is putting the onus on the railroad to improve things instead of the municipalities. I think it would be cheaper to build an auto bridge than to rebuild the railroad right of way, because a single street out of service is easier to do than taking an entire rail line out. Think how far back the railroad that raised the bridge 8 inches had to go to maintain a 1 or 2 percent grade. As for me, when the crossing lights come on, I want to see the train so I stop.
In Davis, CA, they are upgrading the Amtrak station and part of it will be a grade separated pedestrian crossing of the tracks. About a decade or so ago the railroad put up fences to keep people from walking across this line that runs along the south side of downtown. There are already no grade crossings on this line within Davis, though there are a couple within a mile or two of the city limits.
When i visited there i found it weird that there was a fence cutting off the apartments behind
Historically, tracke were there before roads, and when roads were built/towns expanded, then if there was enough rail traffic, the governme nt/town would pay for grade separation. But from the 60s onward, as areas developped, they didn't see the need for grade separation when a suburb expanded since there was no future in trains and train frequencies that remained didn't justify the expense. The issue is back now that people demand higher train frequencies and suburbs have developped and have lots of traffic wanting to go across those tracks al the time.
Brightline is very poorly planned for long term, but as a freight railroad, not surprising. Had tracks been upgraded for fast passenger trains, they would have build all station as elevated and over time elevate more and more segments between stations to eliminate the crossings. However, elevated tracks not good for freight, so like in downtown Miami, likely would have kept freight tracls on ground. They cannot put roads under th atracks due to groun being s near to sea level and hurricanes would flood those roads up, preventing evacuations. And building overpass means the road would cut access to stores that are on the corner of those tracks.
One crossing on Ile Perrot near Montreal Canada 45.38714281918481 -73.99130851398584 has the rail logic attached to the road intersection betwen the road crossing tracks and the exit from highway going down to the underpass under highway to get to south of highway. When the tacks circuits sense approaching train (before it activates the gates/flashing lights/bells) it tells the traffic lighst to prepare for a train. The light north of tracks turns red. The light south of track stays green so that any car already engaged in crossing has green light to exit crossing. (with intersecting light being red to make this safe) and the light for traffic going north (crossing exit from highway and then crossing tracks) gets red. As a cyclist, when I see that light pattern, I know the crossing is about to be activated.
The north side of tracks becomes fully silated when a long fright train is stopped for any lenth of time and obstructs the "exot" from that part of twon on both east adn west crossings, and there are now calls to make at least one crossing an underpass so firemen can at least cross of road is blocked by a train.
Every situation is different.
As ‘nothing personal’ myself as an East coast person. People may risking their lives just to best the train in a matter of hours or recent times upon. Grade crossings are there just to prevented to a tragic waiting to happen. If there’s no crossing to the towns or cities, or any suburban and local communities, the result of motorists and pedestrians may be exposed or serious injury, or worse… fatal deaths.
Imagine you’d installed warning lights, ringing bells, and crossing gates, but in rural countries, they rather used the ‘Cross-buck with no gates or bell. or just vintage machines like Wigwags back then over the years.
But still, it just ignored the problem to reduced in such serious situations if people are doing daredevil or narrowly avoiding a accident if trains can’t stop, or just why foamers (railfan) complained if the police can’t contact the railroads, while they did help out the motorist, but however cars were a scrap pile of wreck, They questioned their engineers or the conductor of how fast your going (Unlike) thye pulled over drivers for a routine traffic stop.
In my opinion suggesting that the Railroads should installed PTC (Positive Train Control), or if the PSR shouldn’t make trains became longer or ignore the mechanical problems like Aging Railcars, heavy cargo or tonnage of goods result of EMD or GE Locomotives are difficult braking, it takes a mile long to stop. It would be too little but ‘BIG too late’💯
It makes sense to add a overpass but in some places an overpass is very hard to build maybe because it can be in a very tight area or even it couldn’t be built due to effects in the construction of it
And it will be a multibillionare project
To do that to EVERY single crossing
And the government can afford that as they are literally in debt
I would probably recommend checking the train schedules for that area and get over the tracks BEFORE the train
Yes, railroad crossings are very dangerous. Here in Italy we've got an vast railroad network, but we're removing RR crossing with alternative road infrstraucture. In the last years we removed aorund 80 crossing per year, so we had less then 11 people are killed each year on average. It's still a high number, but I think they'll get lower soon.
Seems reasonable to a point for freight and passemger to share a row with gentile curves and good population for added grade separation rather than needing to diplicate improvements on both lines (read this NC?).
Trains begin to blow their whistles/horns usually at a distance specified in state law.
Overpasses and grade separation costs money. And taxpayers don’t want to vote for them.
Grade separation are great but expensive as everybody already pointed that out, you also got factor idiots who crash in to the bridge
I’m from uk and our railway brifpdges are constantly being put out of action due to idiot driver either crashing in to it our driving vehicles that are to high for it. It has to be basically education and a strict enforcement of penalties when do dangerous manouvers
I live in the Conshohocken area and the horns are barely noticeable
Oh and it used to be 5 before re-doing the station which added another one making it 6
Really my only complaint is that Railroad safety is EASILY overlooked it's only when a car hits a train and someone dies or when a derailment happens is when people seem to give a damn. I usually don't type this kind of stuff because I don't want to start a knife fight but if people gave railroad respect and not play chicken with the train a lot of this can be avoided. There have been reports of trains derailing because the engineer threw the train into the emergency and then people wanted to pin the blame on the Railroad when in reality it was the person on the tracks that caused it.
There's an old saying 'when you race a train if you tie you lose '
Japan: . . .
Trains have the right-of-way at crossings because the railroad was an earlier form of transportation than the automobile. Ships have the right-of-way over railroads and automobiles because marine shipping is older than both rail and autos.
Maglev is happening in Japan, dunno what you're talking about. That shit can reach airliner speeds. Only a handful of miles are built & undergoing testing to my knowledge thus far. Hyperloops though, are dead-end tech. (Will edit as video goes on) There are more ways to deal with crossings than just "getting rid of them", plus you forgot a major headache with some. Sure you can put a bridge up in the middle of Missouri, and you get a new issue. May I introduce for those unfamiliar, the *tornado.* You just swapped impatience, with desperation. Now instead of possibly saving lives by eliminating that crossing, you put more folks at risk because they have apartments, or mobile homes. *NO YOU CANNOT USE THE BRIDGE ABUTMENTS AS A SAFE SPACE!* The bridge creates a wind tunnel, which has sucked folk out from under the bridge during tornadoes. If you're keeping the tracks at grade, and building a bridge over, then depending on the design, maybe one could integrate a storm shelter, but if you're going under, what about flooding? And what about industries who need the road, and rail to be at the same level? I must also point out that tornadoes have dislodged bridges for both road & rail, if not having just collapsed them entirely. If you MUST get rid of the crossing, make it as low profile as possible, and integrate as many amenities for the local community as needed based on region. If you must demolish houses, businesses, etc, offer double the property value (still probably not gonna go well with some of the locals), and provide temporary housing until new houses are built, or that family is relocated to an existed vacant property at or double the current property value, and make it as part of a mutually benefiting project, by providing those countless of towns WITHOUT commuter rail with commuter rail. Etc. FOr now though, untill anyone has better ideas on how to make it a law that one must have a basic understanding of everything in order to drive, your solution is only a pipe dream, and a very expensive, mentally, politically, & socially destructive one at that.
There are no grade crossings, in the Amtrak line, in Rhode Island.
Correct, there aren't in Rhode Island, in fact that where the Acela can run at its top speed, at least for a time. All of the crossings are in New London County, Connecticut, so it's an oddly local issue there.
Something that would work is put spike strips into the road around where the crossbuck is painted on the road when train comes spikes raise when train passes they lower. Now if people want to Try to beat the train there gonna need a new set of tires obviously set them far enough back that someone doesn’t blow there tires and get stuck on the tracks that way
Brilliant! Why would you put something in the road to deflate the tires of a vehicle, resulting in an undesired vehicle immobilized and fouling a track with a train approaching?
Are you incapable of forward thoughts?
A first semester law student would gladly take a wrongful death suit stripping you and your city of as much money you can imagine.
The third track project on the LIRR main line eliminated all eight grade crossings west of Hicksville station and created underpasses in areas around the Westbury and New Hyde Park stations. This was necessary to allow improvement of service in preparation for the opening of the Grand Central LIRR terminal. While there are no plans to eliminate the grade crossings of the LIRR main line east of Hicksville, there are about six crossings west of NY 110 that should be eliminated.
My version of the foolproof conundrum is: "if you make something idiot-proof, nature will just make a better idiot!"
Suburbanites: "They need to do something about this railroad crossing it takes literally FOREVER to cross the tracks when there's a train... and those horns at night!"
Also suburbanites: "They can't grade separate the crossing! What about the disruption from the closure and dust and debris?????"
PS I heard a couple of people say you should do a collab with Alan Fisher or City Nerd. How about a collab with RM Transit also? He'd bring a Canadian perspective!