REACTING To A Game Developer's Rant on SBMM from @CoconutRTS go show him some love. #reaction #reactionvideo #CoconutRTS #tru3ta1ent #dbd #dead_by_daylight
I still remember when you used to say over the years when you used to talk about those things, among many other, I explicitly remember your defeated stance about the reality of the situation "No matter what I say, nobody is going to listen to it, because it's coming from me. I'll just have to wait for someone else to re-bottle what I said before something gets done about it" or something along these lines. It's funny, seeing it happen now, more and more.
i'd personally just rather not have any elo system and go back to how we were, the game was a much better experience both as killer and survivor, this is why i made a new account for killer. because i took a year long break and i come back into high MMR and just get absolutely destroyed trying to re-learn the game, its awful.
I would like that, but I don't think it would be the right choice, splitting the playerbase into two won't be a good idea with dbd, the game is not that big atm. Especially when you throw event game modes into the mix, now you've got 3 different game modes all with longer queue times.
@@KOHoxtonsame Like why is there no mmr decay? Cause the devs are probably full of themselves thinking “people will never leave our game we update it every 3 months with a kiLlLllEEeR!!”
I believe DBD doesn't have a big enough player base to sustain 2 different "solid" queues, i may be wrong ofc but that is something to keep in mind against the "just add normal and ranked queue" argument
The most frustrating part of sbmm is that games used to have a new player queue, so if you were new and bad you could queue there until a certain level range. Now they just make everyone think they're good at games
Just reminded me of Nosgoth. It had a specific queue up until (I think) 15 or 30. Smurfs existed and largely but it still allowed for a relatively relaxed play to learn the mechanics and basics. Getting off that queue would lead to absolute chaos and madness but at that point it was up to the player to know what was going on.
I have played on a new account since sbmm was released and the games you get put into at the start are definitely beginner level players. And it take’s quite a few games to increase the level of players you are up against.
To answer your question about why sbmm exists true, I would guarantee it has to do with new player retention. A new player getting steamrolled and becoming disinterested is one less potential cosmetic/rift customer. High skill players then have to deal with the constant stress and anxiety of high level play and that gets old.
@@alexdalex3582 It is. As an enterprise, game unhealthy, low players, low activity on game, low profit from store and leads to a dull game like old CODs or like battlefront 1 and 2, try to have a queue on there, hours searching
I've thought about this as well and came to the same conclusion awhile ago. Maybe there is some data out there that shows new player retention is maximized when you do SBMM (otherwise, why bother spending a long time optimizing lobbies). I think a lot of these companies just point at the new player data (in their new player lobbies) and say, "look, it works," while data at mid and higher range of a SBMM system is much more nuanced than that. Long term players are probably not as profitable with a game business model like DBD. There is likely data somewhere that shows new players drop the most cash in a set period of time, so keeping these players interested and "hooked" by rewarding them with player friendly lobbies entices them to spend that sweet cash. Player retention at high MMR in a game like DBD would be questionable to me. Every game someone is immediately tunneled out and you have to sweat your balls off to win. It's not a great experience and it has definitely limited my gaming time with the platform. But hey, I don't spend money on the game anymore, but did when I was in the learning phase of the game.
i mean, the solution is simple: lay off those gen regression perks, lose a couple of games, have fun in lower mmr instead of sweating for your life. EDIT: if this clashes with your idea of fun, then accept that your idea of fun comes with stress and you cant have it both ways. IF you absolutely want to win every game, be prepared to go against people who also want to win every game.
More react content thanks Tru3... Look at the metrics my bro, You're big enough to start doing this now. You know your viewers are all here because of your objectivity, Love it
So a correction on COD SBMM, once you pass a certain skill bracket (not sure if it goes of K/D or what) the game stops trying to find you players of equal skill. Instead what it will do is if there is 1 really good player, it will match them with 5 average-below average players then against 6 above average players. It will then consider this match "fair" as it thinks the 2.5+kd average player will be able to carry sub 1 k/d players. Or very rarely you'll have 2 really good players (one on each team) then the rest of the team is mid. I say this from hundreds of hours of personal experience from the new modern warfare trilogy. I don't smurf yet I will consistently play in matches exactly like this since my K/D is always between 1.9-10 per match and the result is if I'm not dropping an AC-130 I simply cannot win that match because the SBMM expects me to be able to carry the 5 below average players. This is why people in that community complain that they have 1 good match and they get put against "the all stars". They don't, they just got pulled into one of these lobbies and got stuck on the below average collection of players against above average players.
Yup winners and losers queue. That's why SBMM is complete garbage because you're playing crafted lobbies where the outcomes are nearly pre-determined. Obviously you shouldn't be expected to go into every match and have the time of your life you're gonna lose some and you're gonna win some. Problem w/ the SBMM crafted lobbies w/ a losers queue and winners queue team the winners don't have to earn their win. The game hands it to you like "Here you go little buddy it's your turn to win" like your just along for the ride.
Why would they change dbd? The game has ZERO competition and they know people will still play it no matter how bad it gets because it's the only game in it's genre. They're basically saying we can keep producing shit because people will eat our shit regardless. Honestly would you tru, otz, hens or any other big streamer/content creator ever leave dbd? If all of the big content creators, and loyal players stayed this long even when the game is in a terrible state why would they change it? They're still making money, they don't care because no one can knock them off their pedestal. It's like rockstar games and GTA online, they can be the most money hungry, blatantly greedy bastards because they have no threat of anyone toppling them. They stand on a mountain alone and no threat exists to them. They will and can do whatever they want until long standing competition appears and not a trend like Texas chainsaw that died after a month. No, but an actual rival that will stand the test of time.
Online games now are just another social media platform. The goal is to keep the most number of people hooked on it as long as possible. It is no longer about skill expression. Get the majority of players hook by dumbing the game down. Then drain their pockets with cosmetics and in game purchases. I won't be surprised if DBD goes down the route of pay to win. Heck, some would argue it already is. Since, most meta perks are from licensed chapters that must be bought.
they should make a ranked mode with rank rewards, dbd has enough players that ranked would work fine and people would play if they gave cosmetics or iri shards for rewards, reset every 1-3 months
what activision has said is that the goal of sbmm is to increase the amount of time casuals play the game by making their games easier overall, because the longer they play the more likely they are to make ingame purchases. It has worked very very well. So sbmm is here to stay, end of story. It will end up in every semi competitive game unless the devs are just completely against the idea of sbmm, like in the case of XDefiant
7:55 I can chime into this a bit: People who play casually will still win, the game can’t tell when someone is winning casually or winning by sweating, so even if you play casually you will still gain MMR and eventually be placed into those sweatier matches at high MMR. Here’s an example, me and my friend have a combined 18k hours between the two of us, we’re both good at survivor and have dabbled a bit into comp dbd (we don’t do tournaments or have teams but we do know how to play comp), but one week we were just chatting and playing dbd, our builds were shit like autodidact, any means, real off meta perks that usually could be hindrances more than game winning meta perks. What about our comms? We just talked about our personal lives, literally 0 in game callouts besides the “oh the killer is [killer name]”, and that’s it. We autopiloted the entire time, just sitting on gens, adhd’ing chases and just giving, nothing about how we played was sweaty, it was as causal as casual gets. Despite all that, we ended up going on an accidental 10 game win streak, without any sweaty play, then we called it a night. Purely through the eyes of SBMM, we were gods, now at the highest MMR possible, ir at least a lot higher than we were the day before, so without playing sweaty, just playing casually as coconuts suggested, we were out into sweatier and harder matches, forcing us to slowly start locking in, changing our perks to meta, talking less to each other about our days and speaking only in callouts, and that was the only way we could have fun without purposefully throwing matches to rank our rank. So while SBMM will put casuals against casuals, it will eventually put good casuals against sweaty people, even if the good casual players don’t want to sweat and just wanna vibe with other casual killers/survivors. We all never want to lose, and if you’re good, you gotta give up on fucking around because higher MMR and memes stop working as much
And you'll know when you hit that high MMR category. It's like every match was up against a DBD win streak killer (went up against One Pump Willie....several times recording his 100+ singularity win streak). Fun times.
Thats if you only have one queue available and dbd is probably one of the few games that only have that, the other games with sbmm have atleast 2 different modes
It takes a thousand hours to master something. I say this because I want to ask at what point do we distinguish a player between a casual and an actually committed player? I don't think you can count as a casual player anymore, you've crossed multiple thresholds that even most casuals would consider disqualify you. You're clearly very experienced with the game to the point you're getting accidental streaks while handicapped and effectively not caring about the match itself, you're more than likely within the top 5% of play time for dbd globally, you're HERE to begin with (casuals don't consume this type of content or engage in this type of discussion), and your experience with dbd comp quite literally puts you in the 1% of the playerbase. Not even by the standards of sbmm, just by regular human standards you have admitted to being an exceptional player that can hit winstreaks without trying. Your casual is literally considered content to most of the playerbase. You "are" the sweaty player to most of the community despite your attempts not to be. I'm not asking this to be confrontational, this is a genuine question that I see often in the sbmm discussion. Extremely good players that can stomp most of the community asking to stay within that general pool instead of one that can remotely challenge them, I find they often don't consider themselves to be the sweat either.
@@MhnFive being sweaty is a choice, if I limit myself to only playing at 25% my capacity, I’m gonna be comparable to average players, e.g. casual. Casual/sweaty isn’t a level of skill but a level of effort, a bad player can be sweaty and a good player can be casual, dbd is just in a unique state where because there’s so little mechanical skill and it’s all macro game sense it’s a little harder to “handicap” yourself, but I do still think with 80% of my opponents and randoms having somewhere between 1-4k hours on average, sure I’m still far above them, but they take up a large majority of all MMR levels besides brand new, so casual play is still a possibility for someone like me
@@krtar4199 That's honestly very fascinating, especially the part regarding skill vs effort since, as you said, DBD is a rather unique game where macro is far more relevant than micro. I've always figured it made the dbd conversation so much more difficult because how do you even adjust for macro? A good player can put in less effort but even they can't rewrite years of autopilot. In your case, your 25% capacity being many players 80%. It makes it even more difficult when you try and distinguish objectively between good and sweat if it's something the player themselves can decide. Entirely anecdotal but I've seen plenty of people say they aren't sweats because their winstreaks end at 15 instead of 20. I struggle to determine how wrong they are. I also greatly wish we had statistics on play time. I trust your judgement, it's just I believe the conversation would be vastly improved if we knew the player % and time spent. All I can say for certain is most gamers simply don't cross the 1k hour mark. Such a length used to be used as a flex in the mmo community to signal dedication. Thank you for the reply, I greatly appreciate it.
14:00 Content has changed a bit actually In the past, with people like Monto and No0b3, they would almost exclusively do either gimmick builds or flashy non practical plays, but now, people like Ayrun and JRM still do that, and many smaller creators trying to follow in their footsteps, but even Ayrun frequently uploads more and more sweatier gameplay, given that he is a tournament player as well, and JRM is the same way. Stuff like hardcore survivor, survivor escape streaks, or ayrun monthly “DBDS HARDEST CHALLENGE” videos, it dwells into sweatier content than it used to be a few years ago. And that’s just using Ayrun and JRM as examples, we nowadays have significantly more big name DBD content creators and most are just people who main one killer and show off their high skill, like Alranican or crohmbs for wesker, Lynxie for twins, onepumpwilly for sadako, or that guy who wrote the 100 page clown guide. Even otzdarva is like that, his content is playing the game at a high level. Digressing a bit, the content is more abundant, and while there still is a good amount of meme content from the usual suspects, we can also see a larger and faster increase of sweatier content nowadays
Basically, what I'm saying is, where's the fun for the former sweats who are now "high skill" casual adults who only have time to play for an hour or two on weeknights?
You should research "engagement-based matchmaking", it's the real issue here. No longer do most games run true SBMM; COD, Battlefield (if people still play the recent title lol), Siege, Apex, etc. Basically, they learn what kind of player you are and throw you into grinders where you have a very low chance of winning, then right when they think you're going to quit, they'll give u a better/winning match. They also often pad lobbies when you buy cosmetics.
You're correct. Im baffled people are blaming SBMM. I guess people need easy games to feel good about themselves. The reason games hide rank is because they use EOMM to manipulate wins/losses. This is why they all hide their MMR.
Ive always hated mmr. Games used to be random whatever you played. Thats what was fun about games before mmr. Now we are forced to play the same way every match on whatever game you play like its some damn tournament and MOST ppl play for fun. Mmr is just a bad idea. Atleast every game that has it should have seperate playlists barr minimum
16:45 WINNING. That’s where the catharsis is. If the system is well designed and if you are playing consistently, you will win about half the time. And if you actually improve, you’ll win even more.
The root of the problem is in the game design. The goals of the killer and survivors are at odds with one another. There is too much emphasis on the killer preventing survivors' progress/escape. Instead, they could make changes to create more synergies between the killer and survivors' objectives, focusing more on the desired experience/fun. If good survivors and a good killer could both do well in a match it would be a much more fun and healthier game.
I summarize dbd like this : You did bad in dbd .. you feel like shit and other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end You did bad in dbd .. you feel amazing and other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end You did well in dbd, .. you feel like shit and other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end You did well in dbd .. you feel amazing and other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end So there is only one thing certain .. other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end.
This is why I tend to run with a meme build, don't tunnel, let people heal, and don't 3 gen. When I win they have literally nothing to talk shit about, and when I lose it's "No shit, I'm running beast of prey, thrill of the hunt and distressing." I imagine it's the same with No Mither players on the survivor side. You literally can't feel bad when playing a self-imposed challenge.
I kinda disagree, im aware of when someone outplayed me or overcome handicaps like maps rng and still do well and im sure to let them know on end game chat, and I get props from the other side too ( ofc there allways exceptions ).
@@Nyxlight3 I did try to play on new account one time and yes for a week or two it was actually quite nice. People were relaxed, they were nice in end game chat. They even congratulated me and acknowledged my skills and I did the same. It felt really fun. (I suppose you are in this phase of the game or you are playing in NA servers which I find way more relaxed than EU) Then I suppose I eventually reached my rank back and I never heard anything good and nice again. I literally got banned by a popular French streamer because I 4k his team. I outplayed them and got a nice bucket of attacks after I came to the stream to say gg and thank them for the nice game. Then I got literally paraded in front of the audience only to be banned in the end. I am glad you have nice experience but plenty of us didn't.
@@SensejWorld It is true than on lower ranks things are more casual and yes I play on EU, since bhvr don't wanna tell us our real mmr im not sure of how different our experiences can be, but even if im sure my mmr is not at tournament player lvl on any means, I can say confident I am pretty decent on both sides, and I also don't deny there are bad experiences but idk just last week I was looping a spanish streamer as Nea who was trying Huntress 1 time ( I didn't know at the time ) and since I play a lot of Huntress myself I was able to loop him 5 gens so in the end it was 4 escape. I just go to end chat to say I wasn't trying been mean by flashlights clicks but been "toxic" it was a strat I use playing solo Q as way to avoid my teammates getting hook on 10 sec by focusing killer attention on me. He replied he allready know it wasn't smart stay on me,but he want to train with hatchets and invite me to his stream and chat wasn't mean with me on any way. Its true it was a smaller streamer, a big one probably ignored me but it works as an example, it can feel there's more bad than good but most of time is because we hold tight bad experiences and tend to forget about good ones, wich I understand, but imo most of the times those types of toxicity are no that focused on you, rather on personal problems/having bad day on the other side.
Hopefully never, i'm mega not a fan of this guy at all. guy doesn't offer or have any valuable opinions or thoughts at all, hes just there to try and dumb down something already said.
I feel like even if they went back to the old mm system or create a better one, the queue times accumulated over time after a long session will feel really really bad. And the reason for that is just our playerbase not being huge enough for something like that. Especially if for example they were to divide it into Normal MM and Ranked MM. It will be horrendous based on our playerbase. It feels to me that many people forget that we are not a lot of people playing this game.
I would truly like to see you try to go on a win streak. Pick your best killer. Give it like 5 attempts and see how far you get. I'm genuinely curious.
SBMM as a topic is easily summed up to whether the game is designed for sweaty matches. CSGO, Overwatch, Valorant, LOL, all games designed and balanced (Overwatch less so than the others) with competitive in mind and noone ever complains about SBMM in those games because it feels fair. When you lose, you feel you lost to skill and people adore the challenge. COD and DBD are balanced with the lowest common denominator in mind, therefor having your matchmaking be designed around your game being balanced while it blatantly isn't creates an unfun frustrating experience and therefor people will complain about it.
dbd isnt even balanced for low level much either, its blaanced for single player teams which is about 1% of the playerbase now since everything is just swf and bhvr is like yea lets balance more perks as if they are all solo players, even the mmr systemm is based on solo mmr
Lol, cod doesn’t have sbmm😂. It’s EBMM. SBMM wouldn’t be putting such shit players and one god on the same team, it would either be all gods or all noobs.
I play shooters casually anymore and I never feel like I'm actually improving in call of duty because they toss me a bone when I have a bad game and then put me up against what feels like team optic when I have a solid game. I never felt like I was moving in either direction. So I quit it. Most of my time is spent in fighting games and I'm use to seeing/feeling improvement
Would you say that pop and pain res actually encourage healthy killer game play because they reward you for hooking different survivors and leaving after you’ve hooked to go kick a gen?
I play the game for a couple days after every update, and usually I only play killer, just because I enjoy it more. But usually as I play I get more 3 kills than I get 0-1 kills and due to that I'll randomly come back to the game and be playing again some super sweaty people on my first game back just because a couple weeks before I had gotten a 3-4 streak of 4k's
Absolutely! The sbmm had good intentions, but it ends up making so many stressful matches, and that burns players out. The last react was about content creators leaving, but we don't see how many casual players just leave quietly. Those players shouldn't feel like they need to sweat to play a fun game. It's totally true that the casual experience will require adept play to have fun (or to not get frustrated at the very least.) If they are aiming for casual to have more fun, away from the hardcore players, they are doing it wrong. Casuals eventually gain mmr, and will end up against sweaty players, and it all happens so fast. I haven't taken a kill as Billy since Overcharge was introduced (just drift around and go for long snipes), and I face the most baby survivors as him. I still let them all escape, but I make it exciting and challenging, to make up for the stress that low mmr faces.
This is a bot. I saw a very similar comment by “IOSALive” on Callum’s Corner Channel video: “Searching For Elephants In The Jungle - Perfect Day In Chiang Mai” in fact he’s on your channel. You also only have 36,000 subs yet you’re verified. Very fishy.
There's always the concern of whether or not the developers have the same metrics for skill as the community. A lot of Devs also overvalues party queuing in matchmaking as well. Just because 3 Silver players are in a discord call doesnt mean they're sharing useful information and at high levels players use comms even if they're solo queued. Though DbD seems to have the rare opposite issue where they undervalue party queues. People aren't frustrated that they get unfair matches, they're frustrated that matchmaking is supposed to be giving them fair matches and it feels like it isnt.
I wish SBMM would do as it suggests. Most games I don't feel I'm put against equal skill levels. I think my Win/Loss ratio is 1/10, and even when I win it feels i was carried by the rest of the team. Same can be said when I play as killer. These survivors are well ahead of me; no mindgames or brute force can get me the win. I understand it's good to issue a challenge, but I feel like I ought to stand a chance. How can players improve if they can't even assess the things they've done wrong? The matchmaking has become so demotivating.
Haven’t even watched it but my biggest problem with SBMM is when it’s in games with a ranked game mode. The ranked game mode is there for a reason. Back in my day you got thrown into a CoD lobby and you either sink or swim.
I really wish there was a total free-for-all lobby for DBD. I want it all. A total mixed bag. Makes every game unexpected. Thing is.. if they did implement an 'unranked' mode, you just KNOW they'd make it not reward Bloodpoints or go towards challenges. So.. itd be useless.
Im coming from a fighting game perspective so my opinion on SBMM is a bit different. Even then i don't care about winning so much to the point where if i lose I'll rage. I rarely get mad at losing and its usually for other reasons not so much SBMM it usually has to do with a specific mechanic I don't think is fair/good for the game. I personally don't really like pub stomping players under my level. I love the crazy scrambles, the combacks and the magic pixel wins that have me on the edge of my seat. The competition makes it fun for me. Stress is apart of thw competitive nature of any game with a goal/Objective/scoreboard. To me SBMM is fine as long as the way how the system works makes sense and the game itself has decent balance. SBMM doesn't matter if the game is broken.
I quit playing dbd well before MMR or SBMM was in the system long but even prior killer always felt stressful. Especially when I was maybe 200 hours in game and constantly went in with SWFs of 1000+ hour each. Even if those weren't every game even getting once in awhile was super unfun and demoralizing on top of how toxic the whole community to killers in general.
Problems with DBD... Due to Learning Curves: Simply put, it is easier to chase than be chased when you both don't know what you are doing. Low-Level DBD: Killers Dominate High-Level DBD: Survivors Dominate Problem: Balancing one skill level of play unbalances the other. Casuals make up the majority of players Sweats make up the majority of core loyal players This creates the main question of who to please, and at the end of the day, it will always come down to money as that is the primary goal of any videogame company.
The dev is talking about the SBMM of Halo 2 and 3. Back when you could just hop in an Unranked mode and have fun instead of trying to figure out what's been balanced, what's the new meta, and so on. Not that metas did not exist, which I see many claim when talking about older games, especially in the Call of Duty community when they, in fact, did have clear metas the difference being that in a varied lobby a meta weapon is not required to do well.
Yea. Thats why i stopped watching and playing cod. Because i could feel the SBMM at all times. Like i even had it down to a point where i just would reverse boost in most games. Sorry not sorry. Id rather go into a couple games and die and throw and have one really fun game than constant stressful games. I dont play the game to sweat at all, but if i dont then i get stomped due to me being in a high MMR. So then its either i sweat and the sbmm probably just keeps me at high MMR or just like reverse boost a couple games to lower my MMR and chill and have a fun game. I dont even do it to win i do it PURELY to have ANY fun bc i have gotten to a point for me where sweating isnt fun at all for me im on games to destress and relax. Not to sweat my balls off.
Matchmaking should be for comp ladders games only. In other games it kind of defeats the purpose of ever improving. Instead of having more fun you're never met with easier games or the ability to do anything with your new skills or knowledge, instead you are punished and forever stressed out.
Modern Day SBMM does make the game bad for most. (In pub matches) Low skilled, assuming they are not implementing bots or have much wider search parameters will be in their own version of a sweaty lobby. Average and above get thrown in their versions of sweaty lobbies. Then anyone who plays with friends that are not at the same skill levels also suffers as it brings those lower skilled friends/family or whatever they play with into a bracket they can not compete in and the player with the higher MR gets an easier lobby. So it's better for the higher MR player, but usually, resorts in the lower MR ending the session from getting repeatably stomped.
Problem is have with memey builds vs win streaks as both are collectively smurfing. A “meme” build really only works on low ranked players and is considered bullying. Meanwhile the win streaks can realistically only be maintained via luck or consistent smurfing. Win streaks are healthier though as the build it shows should at least be helpful for the lower level players. Also meme builds can seem quite discouraging to some players as its in the name. Similar to “dumb” techs.
never understood people complaining about SBMM, you are playing against your skill level, it's been like this since brood war days. nothing ruins my day like running into someone 4 ranks higher than myself on r6 siege. id rather just face my rank.
14:18 regarding the memey dbd content. Just wondering, do you ever visit other dbd content creator streams? From what I’ve seen, getting the content can take a long time as what the content creator is trying to do is actually kinda hard because most games they are going against competent killers. It’ll be the one game that they can do the memey thing that gets uploaded to RUclips.
For the Prioritization I think it's worded weirdly. I don't think de-prioritized is the right word as much as opened the initial pool. So you would still have mmr matches but instead of it looking for masters, then diamonds then platnium it just started pooling everything to silver and first come first serve.
the problem with sbmm in any game is you don't get the reward for getting better at the game (which would be winning games) since each time you upgrade your gameplay so do your enemies and therefore you don't get the feedback needed to feel good. There's no point in trying, if you try you will lose more.
That's why they have rankings for the sake of feeling some progression. I don't see how you can be a competitive minded person but hate SBMM. The whole point of SBMM is for you to feel like you're getting better and better players to stack yourself up against. I've always seen the arguments against it always amount to a cloaked way of saying "I wanna annihilate shit players."
@@clarencegutsy7309 Are you reading what you write? How can the point of sbmm be to feel progression in skill if your winrate and matches are all gonna be the same? The actual point is to retain most casual playerbase that play the game once or twice a week. You say it's because people wanna win easily, but let me ask you something. Old lobbies of cod with no sbmm (or even just dbd before they added it) had the most fun matches ever in the series and EVERYONE including casuals agree on that. How so? Because it's a natural market where if you are constantly playing matches you will eventually learn how to play better by yourself and once you do get better you can see the result in most matches, making it fun to actually invest your time into learning the game. And if you really wanna be testing yourself to the limit and progress fay beyond what a casual would, there's a competitive/ranked game mode in most games. You have to understand this matchmaking was created to maximize profit from casual people who are the ones that spend the most money on in game purchases believe it or not. It was NOT created to have fun matches.
@@Gian_sas You don't learn how to play better when all you're doing is facing scrubs all day, hence why rankings exist in the first place to feel that progression of skill and growth. If you can't pinpoint how you've evolved as a player from hour 1 to hour 200 then you're being disingenuous unless you are extremely and I mean extremely terrible. Keep in mind I'm not singling out DBD exclusively but how so many complaints of SBMM comes down to having people in any multiplayer game prefer to destroy newbies and weekend dads. Your gripes with the system don't make sense because they're unrealistic. You're that guy who plays fighting game lobbies and leaves once he sees someone with hundreds of matches pop in but if you see a 3-21 record then you're mashing ready like no tomorrow. Trying to place people on a level playing field against one another is ultimately a good idea and is always going to be hated by those that claim they want "chill/non sweaty" games when they really meant to say "less experienced/bad players." SBMM may not be perfect a solution for every game but it's a shitload better than the alternate being a 4000 hour Nurse who deranked to face people with under 100.
what successful online game has NOT had some matchmaking going on? And in which of those (apart from 1v1 scenarios like chess or starcraft) has the matchmaking ever been considered "great"?
the problem with sbmm is the metric. if they counted something else than kills/escapes it could be an actual reflection of skill. The idea that matchmaking is flawed from the get go is absolute bunk tho.
People enjoy watching their content creator win, if you make a meme build we don't expect you to lose, we expect that, since you uploaded it, you'll win. Unfortunately, in order to win, you usually have to use good builds. Meme content in swf is not build dependant and going for the occasional bush tech might work which is why it's in the video.
3:03 i don't think so, cause if that's the case why nerf all these perks and make all these changes to killer for baby survivors to feel like they're better than they are
i love everyone is covering this. it was originally about how halo infinite was dogshit then dbd found it and i was so happy to see it covered because it's relevant to so many games. also i love the "care" to the new players like "you dont want them to be dropped into a meat grinder riiiight??" it's like they still are! a hard match for them is like someone with maybe a day of play time. barely anything! everyone suffers now! including them. thank you so much for covering this tru. choy covered it and i still remember months ago the boys unknown covered it when it started over halo infinite vs halo 3. if all the dbd boys cover this it'll spit at the idea of sbmm in front of the devs.
@7:58 SBMM doesn't incentivize smurfing. It literally creates it and makes it possible. Smurfing is impossible without a SBMM system. Back in the day, when we used to be matched with other low-ping players, smurfing didn't exist.
Games didn't used to have SBMM back in the day, and they never struggled as a result of that. TF2 had a long and healthy lifespan despite the game being around for _9 years_ before any form of matchmaking was introduced. You just opened the server browser, picked one you liked the look of, and hopped straight in. Who you were playing with/against was luck of the draw. Completely unfiltered. Sometimes you would get shit on by god-tier players with hundreds to thousands of hours under their belt. Sometimes you would be the one shitting on other players who would in turn see you as the 'god-tier player'. Being a completely new player in that environment was a rough start, sure, but seeing one guy topping the leaderboards and singlehandedly dominating the game was more inspiring than disheartening. You would think "damn, I can't wait to get as good as that guy is and start dominating matches myself". Likewise if you get destroyed by a Soldier doing fancy rocketjumps you end up thinking "Cool! I should really learn how to do that!". Games did not struggle without SBMM back then, so what changed? I'd argue it's the consumer base that changed. The newer generations of gamers are fickle and have very little patience with their games. If they can't pick it up and immediately start winning within their first day of playing they will write it off as bad and jump ship to the next game that takes their interest. They can't seem to grasp the concept that you have to take the time to get good at a game before you can expect to start winning at it. Games like Unreal Tournament and Quake wouldn't survive in today's climate, despite being incredibly popular during their time. This fickleness is why games released these days have to find ways to throw free wins at newer players (either through manipulating who they play against or even using fake lobbies full of bots) in order to maintain their interest. I'd even go as far as to say that this fickleness is the reason why the gaming scene as a whole is largely dominated by a small handful of games. Whenever something new or innovative comes along that steps outside of the formula people are accustomed to the players quickly lose interest in having to actually learn something new and quickly drop it to go back to 'ol reliable'. The incentive to get good back in the day was so that _you_ could be the 'power player' in your lobbies, singlehandedly impacting the match and carrying your team to victory. With SBMM that incentive no longer exists, because no matter how good you get the game is specifically engineered to maintain that 50% win ratio and prevent any single player from being a 'power player'. The incentive to get good these days is nothing more than a superficial badge/number next to your username that tells everyone else what 'rank' you are. It's simply not the same.
They should add casual game mode and rank mode with leaderboard. In rank mode they should let survivor ban 4 perk, killer ban 4 every survivor bans 1 so many problem would be solved.
I think there should be a MM with like 3 Brackets... one for "Beginners" one for some mor advanced Players... and one for Long-time Players. And that's it... if I start today with the Game... and I get into matches where I have to fight Players on Tru3's caliber... I would just quit the game. xD
I’ve been playing games since the 90s before mmr was a thing. The early days of cod or socom, matches were better because you would get variety. Sometimes I would get wrecked while other times I would wreck or have a close game. SBMM popped up when the culture of woke appeared. When that happened we started seeing safe spaces and to me SBMM is an online safe space. Now I mostly play single player and coop because I got tired of only going against sweaty people because my mmr always gets up there. When I get home from work I want variety, not a constant sweat fest because they want to keep low level people in safe spaces 🤦♂️.
Ranked and unranked doesn’t work. SWFs gravitate to Unranked matches so they can maintain rank, but also stomp someone wanting a casual game and avoid Blights every game. Killers sweat in both, slug tunnel etc etc. They have that in DBD mobile, where ranked is less sweaty. Also, after watching many videos I don’t understand what Tru3 would deem as balanced. To balance at the top level like he talks about (eg balancing around his idea that a 4 man Swfs at the highest level is stronger than killer, even though the vast majority of casual matches favour killers) you’d destroy the base game even more-maybe I’m wrong.
27:34 If you imagine the MMR System as a Number from - lets say - 0 to 1 (0 no MMR, 1 MMR) if you take the variable 0,5 its de-prioritized because 1 would be the full MMR search criteria. i'd imagine thats how it would work. Its like an "ON" or "OFF" switch but at 0,5 its somwhere in between ON & OFF 45:17 I still dont get why some ppl still cant see that SWF is a huge problem in this game. It is a fact that if you play vs SWF, your match becomes exponantial more difficult (talking top 3% ofc). They don't even have to be in Discord, just 4 good players equally to your own skill level and you are fucked. It is so obvious. Thats the reason "Comp" DBD is a joke even with all the Banned Perks. DBD will never be E-Sports.
No one was complaining about gaming back then, everybody was happy with gaming. You say you don't want sbmm and guess what people will tell you? "It's a skill issue" also the issue with sbmm is you'll go against the same players at the top every damn day. It just needs to be balanced better and currently sbmm is not it for every game.
The thing about DBD is that it's not designed to be competitively balanced. The intention wasn't to have people become as good at the game as they have, it was meant to be more party game style which is evident when you look at the sheer amount of RNG that exists in the game. Can people be really good at the game anyway? Of course, but the game wasn't meant to become this optomized.
the devs seem to be older ppl who try so hard to protect people like them; let's face it, they aren't getting a young audience any time soon. The game is legit kinda unknown to teens. "Sweaty teens on monster"... all they want is that their old audience comes back from work, sits on the couch and plays the game casually and still feel like they are good at it. The vast majority of the players are probably 25+ if not 30+. The devs know that if these 30+ casuals leave, the game dies so they sell them lies about them being "rank 1" in their game. Pathetic (btw ik 30 isn't old but it's just on the older side in gaming)
I with the basic principle but with COD you have to remember there's variables to controller being a massive benefit and also benefits to kbam (movement) there should never be a competitive skill base matchmaking where there are so many unbalanced and unfair situations. Competitive play has no place in a game where there are benefits to either player to begin with. With DBD the game is based around strategy so it can pass but with cod it simply comes down to out aiming your opponent who sadly has an advantage in some way.
id add i agree with sbmm in games that have competitive play but with cod the variable is too different in regards to the main mechanic in the game which is why its such a hot topic in that franchise
5:35 In dbds case, this wasn't true according to the community. Not sure if you remember, but at the time (before SBMM) people constantly complained about matchmaking sucking. It was always hit boxes and matchmaking excuses when a popular streamer lost. Noob3 comes to mind as a person that complained about this, but he wasn't the only one. You'd also see a lot of people in post game chat checking hours and then complaining about being matched with someone with thousands of hours when they were new. IT WAS A HUGE complaint in this community. So, the devs introduced SBMM and then all of a sudden, everyone changed their tune....even the streamers. This is not directed at you specifically, but I hardly think you can blame SBMM on Behavior. They listened to the community and implemented a solution.
from what i've seen, people complained about imbalanced matchmaking when they were in a lobby with people better than them and getting bodied, now they'll complain about SBMM because they have to try to win. personally i had quit DBD not even a day in, because my first 6 or so matches in a row were all against multiple prestige red tier players while i had less than an hour in the game. unbalanced matches where you had no chance from the outset turns people away from whatever game it is. to anyone who says "i don't play to try, but to have fun" wouldn't your MMR be at your "for fun" level and not your "try hard" level?
@nunote2362 I don't disagree with you. I don't think SBMM was a bad thing to address the complaints at the time. However, personally I found the game more fun before it because the lobbies were such a mixed bag. I do have a theory, though: I don't think it's matchmaking that is the issue currently. It's player skill level. Even people that only have a few hundred hours do stuff like techs, optimal strats, and meta builds, etc.. People back in 2018 didn't do this kind of stuff on such a mass scale. The devs need to destroy all metas and make perks weaker overall. Also, I wouldn't be opposed to completely changing the gameplay loop. Like can they really not think of any other objectives besides gens and kills?
Im tired of hearing the excuse “for new players” when literally they themselves said that most players have 1000s of hours new people are most likely coming in watching dbd or because someone they know plays it and will learn very fast my bf started last week literally is already looping killer cause I’m teaching him I also told him enjoy killer while it lasts
Are we all forgetting that even if they went back or even create a good matchmaking the queue times will never feeld good at all ranks. Why? Because DBD playerbase is not huge compared to other big games like CoD, Fortnite and so on.
Yea, I dunno man. we thought we used to be toxic back in the day, like we were mean in the 2000s. But, the toxicity has gone way deeper than calling each other names, blowing off steam. I used to love multiplayer games because it was so cool to get people together across the world to have fun, cooperate or compete. Now, it's just taxing, people are intolerable, the biggest game studios using the worst practices.💩
tru3 to start this, i promise i love your videos, and i generally agree with most of your points in this video, but i do disagree with some of your points. sbmm isn't the issue. its balancing. if the game were truly balanced as in more killers and perks were viable, then you'd see more variability in builds(as seen in league of legends). sbmm is necessary for game companies that want to make money. they probably have analytics that show retention rates of new players. there's a good chance that new players who try a game and get stomped by a player that's better than them, have a high chance to quit the game and never return(which means they spend less money on dlcs and cosmetics). and as we know in many pvp games, the majority of players are in low ranks(which is why dbd focuses balancing for them). to the smurf point you made, it does slightly incentivize smurfs, however sbmm lowers the chance of a new player running into a high rank player by a lot. additionally games have started to ban smurf accounts(they put it in their ToS). moreover, sbmm when used properly will allow the smurf account to have a few games vs lower rank players but will quickly match the player vs higher rank players once it calculates the person's elo. i slightly disagree with the notion that sbmm in general is only for casuals, in team based games i would absolutely hate if i had low rank players on my team and the enemy team had the best of the best. sbmm helps high rank players in those examples. i don't support the pure organic nature of potentially going against pure sweats. if you get a player who's new and put them against a high level player they aren't going to learn much about what's going on in the game but when you put them with people around their level they can slowly build up their skill.
good killers will know when they shouldn't have won a match and that's usually at the end when the survivors throw themselves at you turning a 3-man escape into a 3 - 4 man kill.
The program can't differ good players vs cheaters, that's why all good players constantly get matched vs cheaters. All these players who claim to "never met a cheater" are just shitty players and get matched to other shitty players.
the stupid part about the hockey comment on dbd is last time we checked hockey has 2 teams wheres the killers team? cos its 4v1 dont remember seeeing that in hockey where its one goalie vs the entire other team, and the reason why they took so long to find matches for sweaty swf at higher ranks cos the game is still unbalnced and favoured to them so of course less killers were up there cos survivors were getting deepthroated by bhvr to be up there
you're pushed away from being good at the fucking game, THATS what kills shit with sbmm. No payoff for improving your reaction time, awareness, and aim except for harder lobbies. that "mix" of you stomping, being even, and being stomped IS WHAT PUSHES YOU TO PLAY MORE AND IMPROVE. fuck this only "fair" bullshit, because what ends up happening is you have to choose between winning And losing instead of having fun. WHY IS THE THING YOU CHOOSE TO SPEND TIME ON TO DE-STRESS FROM REAL LIFE PROBLEMS MAKING YOU MAD???? "OoOoO dont take the game so seriously" so i should be happy to lose every game? YALL OBVIOUSLY DIDNT LIKE IT, SINCE ENOUGH PPL CRIED FOR SBMM TO BE PUT IN. so now skill means nothing but having to sweat every game. Yall remember WAY back in the day playing black ops 2 for the first hour and up until you hit like level 20, you only played ppl in that same position? called the bootcamp playlist i think. that is what theyve done with pvp games now, except now, instead of letting you loose into the wild to have fun past a certain point, they put fucking chains around your hands and only add more the better you become.
I dont feel the buffer was added because of why you think. You yourself were among many of high influential content creators rallying for the end of sbmm because of stress levels and being stuck with hackers. Sbmm was a counter to deranking which the same people whining about sbmm are the same that complained about deranking in the emblem system.
He doesn't care about sbmm itself but hates that there is no visual indication of what your sbmm rank or number is, so it's gives a blind view that if two players have the same rank but one is worse and one is great, it makes people think they are the same skill level even if one is insanely worse
MMR makes the game consistently more sweaty because the killer will be trying their hardest no matter how casual the survivors they are going against are. I do no think MMR helps casual player in the slightest
RUclips dbd used to be fun builds but like recently they changed bc everyone already has seen all the flashbang background player plays. Its not even like exciting or fun for really anyone to do anymore. Theres less skill expression on both sides, so its harder to make interesting content when they’ve removed all the techs and fun out of the game. Once they remove hug tech boom theres goes blight content. They remove wesker techs then wesker content is harder to get therefore youtubers dont want to post in general. A. They have already done everything you can in the game and B. Less fun tech and memey stuff in the game
@@Agaroth3010 exactly the only thing people post thats interesting is beating cheaters. Bc we have done everything there is in the game so much that the only thing to conquer are people who are using cheats lmao. And the content is just them beating cheaters so its not even bc of the game its just bc people like seeing cheaters get dookied on.
SBMM together with battlepass systems made me stop playing modern games completely. They basically turn games into jobs. SBMM ruins it for me because it ensures that _every_ match is either incredibly sweaty or incredibly boring (depending on the game's implementation of the system, some will put a shitty team vs a literal E-sports team, like Halo MCC does). Battlepass because it forces me to play even when I don't want to if I want to have _any_ chance of unlocking something. As a completionist I want the ability to unlock stuff at my own pace and when I want to.
Tru3. I’m I fan of reaction videos, but you REALLY need to give the video a chance of offering you information of something to react to. This is new for you. This was, “Nope. Pause. MY opinion.” immediately. Let the video play for a bit man.
ya But DBD is trash because it is broken and unfairly buffed on one side is unbalanced and unfairly favours one side, leading to a frustrating and salty experience for players.
20:45 “think about sports, and I’ll use hockey as an example cos I’m Canadian” as his analogy to explain why skill essentially shouldn’t be rewarded It’s Canadians who make fifa or FC as it’s known now, no wonder that game doesn’t resemble football one bit and there’s hardly a skill gap in it no more, they appeal to casuals obviously but it seems they don’t even understand the basis of competition or sport or anything full stop 😂 this is why I call EA terrorists and predators, they’ve highjacked a sport which people follow religiously, then design the game in a pay to win way, bearing in mind most the people who play that game are kids/teens, a lot of us grew up on fifa too so there’s still plenty of adults with a wage that can spend too, but it’s incredible how many stories there’s been of kids literally stealing from their parents cos they have a crippling gambling addiction from fifa I have a real issue with Canadian developers, they’re very deceptive and coercive, and borderline thieves
And even after this point the Asian guy reacting goes on to say games are more competitive this way, no they are more sweaty and focus on abusing mechanics and broken things that aren’t balanced… 😂 the games are broken, that’s why they’re stressful, you feel like you’re competing with the game more than your opponent 🤦♂️😂 And the tweet saying DBD was once a party game, I do agree with that sentiment, but it’s cos the game blew up from out of nothing, then people actually stuck around and got good at it, it was only a party game cos it was a huge player base of awful players but everyone still had fun together, playing with friends, against friends, or solo But to be against DC penalties… even in a party game if someone DCs it’s not acceptable behaviour and it should be punished, it’s only annoying when you genuinely disconnect and are punished, but if you quit, no one wants you on that game anyways This happens in fifa a lot too, people backing out of games 10 seconds into the match, so they play the game all day in the menus grinding and spending money to get a good team, to then jump into a match just to randomly quit for objectives and stuff id assume, and people celebrate this behaviour like “yes I just won, you are everything that’s right with this community, backing out and giving me the win” No one wants to actually play the game, as it’s tedious and broken and very time consuming, how are we at a point where no one wants to play a game but it’s still considered a good game 😂
SBMM isn't the problem the problem is these games mess with numbers in the background to trick you into playing more. COD I bet doesn't even have SBMM it's just something for players to blame. COD will boost damage of skins in the background but won't say anything, they'll lower your damage all game so you die a lot and it pushes you to try harder next game keeping you playing. It's not SBMM it's just one big ass mind game I've been telling people about since the first time they did MW3. They've been playing some dirty mind games in the background for years. It's not SBMM that's make you die in 2-3 hits but takes you 4-6 to kill it's their mind games. If games wouldn't trick people into playing longer then SBMM would work but right now I 100% think there has never been SBMM in COD it's always been mind games.
Игры
I still remember when you used to say over the years when you used to talk about those things, among many other, I explicitly remember your defeated stance about the reality of the situation "No matter what I say, nobody is going to listen to it, because it's coming from me. I'll just have to wait for someone else to re-bottle what I said before something gets done about it" or something along these lines.
It's funny, seeing it happen now, more and more.
Absolutely my thoughts too. Watching Tru3 for years and this happens but sooo slooooow, but it really does. Hope for the best.
SBMM can be solved just by having ranked queues with SBMM and unranked without it. Let people choose how they want to play. It's that simple
i'd personally just rather not have any elo system and go back to how we were, the game was a much better experience both as killer and survivor, this is why i made a new account for killer. because i took a year long break and i come back into high MMR and just get absolutely destroyed trying to re-learn the game, its awful.
You mean how games used to be? Strange
I would like that, but I don't think it would be the right choice, splitting the playerbase into two won't be a good idea with dbd, the game is not that big atm. Especially when you throw event game modes into the mix, now you've got 3 different game modes all with longer queue times.
@@KOHoxtonsame Like why is there no mmr decay? Cause the devs are probably full of themselves thinking “people will never leave our game we update it every 3 months with a kiLlLllEEeR!!”
I believe DBD doesn't have a big enough player base to sustain 2 different "solid" queues, i may be wrong ofc but that is something to keep in mind against the "just add normal and ranked queue" argument
The most frustrating part of sbmm is that games used to have a new player queue, so if you were new and bad you could queue there until a certain level range. Now they just make everyone think they're good at games
But once you get good, you're no longer still in that group though...
Just reminded me of Nosgoth. It had a specific queue up until (I think) 15 or 30. Smurfs existed and largely but it still allowed for a relatively relaxed play to learn the mechanics and basics. Getting off that queue would lead to absolute chaos and madness but at that point it was up to the player to know what was going on.
you start out in a trial pool with 650 mmr in dbd. So this concept still exists.
I have played on a new account since sbmm was released and the games you get put into at the start are definitely beginner level players. And it take’s quite a few games to increase the level of players you are up against.
I used to make alts back in the halo 3 days to stomp new players when i was bored or my friends werent on😂
To answer your question about why sbmm exists true, I would guarantee it has to do with new player retention. A new player getting steamrolled and becoming disinterested is one less potential cosmetic/rift customer. High skill players then have to deal with the constant stress and anxiety of high level play and that gets old.
It doesn't need to be about money, turning new players off of the game is bad just for game health.
@@alexdalex3582 It's always about money, especially when it comes to games that have this many microtransactions.
@@alexdalex3582 It is. As an enterprise, game unhealthy, low players, low activity on game, low profit from store and leads to a dull game like old CODs or like battlefront 1 and 2, try to have a queue on there, hours searching
I've thought about this as well and came to the same conclusion awhile ago. Maybe there is some data out there that shows new player retention is maximized when you do SBMM (otherwise, why bother spending a long time optimizing lobbies). I think a lot of these companies just point at the new player data (in their new player lobbies) and say, "look, it works," while data at mid and higher range of a SBMM system is much more nuanced than that. Long term players are probably not as profitable with a game business model like DBD. There is likely data somewhere that shows new players drop the most cash in a set period of time, so keeping these players interested and "hooked" by rewarding them with player friendly lobbies entices them to spend that sweet cash. Player retention at high MMR in a game like DBD would be questionable to me. Every game someone is immediately tunneled out and you have to sweat your balls off to win. It's not a great experience and it has definitely limited my gaming time with the platform. But hey, I don't spend money on the game anymore, but did when I was in the learning phase of the game.
i mean, the solution is simple: lay off those gen regression perks, lose a couple of games, have fun in lower mmr instead of sweating for your life.
EDIT: if this clashes with your idea of fun, then accept that your idea of fun comes with stress and you cant have it both ways.
IF you absolutely want to win every game, be prepared to go against people who also want to win every game.
More react content thanks Tru3...
Look at the metrics my bro, You're big enough to start doing this now. You know your viewers are all here because of your objectivity, Love it
He's really good at reacts. He adds a lot and can see things from both sides of any topic.
So a correction on COD SBMM, once you pass a certain skill bracket (not sure if it goes of K/D or what) the game stops trying to find you players of equal skill. Instead what it will do is if there is 1 really good player, it will match them with 5 average-below average players then against 6 above average players. It will then consider this match "fair" as it thinks the 2.5+kd average player will be able to carry sub 1 k/d players. Or very rarely you'll have 2 really good players (one on each team) then the rest of the team is mid.
I say this from hundreds of hours of personal experience from the new modern warfare trilogy. I don't smurf yet I will consistently play in matches exactly like this since my K/D is always between 1.9-10 per match and the result is if I'm not dropping an AC-130 I simply cannot win that match because the SBMM expects me to be able to carry the 5 below average players.
This is why people in that community complain that they have 1 good match and they get put against "the all stars". They don't, they just got pulled into one of these lobbies and got stuck on the below average collection of players against above average players.
Yup winners and losers queue. That's why SBMM is complete garbage because you're playing crafted lobbies where the outcomes are nearly pre-determined. Obviously you shouldn't be expected to go into every match and have the time of your life you're gonna lose some and you're gonna win some. Problem w/ the SBMM crafted lobbies w/ a losers queue and winners queue team the winners don't have to earn their win. The game hands it to you like "Here you go little buddy it's your turn to win" like your just along for the ride.
Why would they change dbd? The game has ZERO competition and they know people will still play it no matter how bad it gets because it's the only game in it's genre. They're basically saying we can keep producing shit because people will eat our shit regardless. Honestly would you tru, otz, hens or any other big streamer/content creator ever leave dbd? If all of the big content creators, and loyal players stayed this long even when the game is in a terrible state why would they change it? They're still making money, they don't care because no one can knock them off their pedestal. It's like rockstar games and GTA online, they can be the most money hungry, blatantly greedy bastards because they have no threat of anyone toppling them. They stand on a mountain alone and no threat exists to them. They will and can do whatever they want until long standing competition appears and not a trend like Texas chainsaw that died after a month. No, but an actual rival that will stand the test of time.
Stockholm syndrome off the top of my head is what I would call it.
Online games now are just another social media platform. The goal is to keep the most number of people hooked on it as long as possible. It is no longer about skill expression. Get the majority of players hook by dumbing the game down. Then drain their pockets with cosmetics and in game purchases. I won't be surprised if DBD goes down the route of pay to win. Heck, some would argue it already is. Since, most meta perks are from licensed chapters that must be bought.
they should make a ranked mode with rank rewards, dbd has enough players that ranked would work fine and people would play if they gave cosmetics or iri shards for rewards, reset every 1-3 months
what activision has said is that the goal of sbmm is to increase the amount of time casuals play the game by making their games easier overall, because the longer they play the more likely they are to make ingame purchases. It has worked very very well. So sbmm is here to stay, end of story. It will end up in every semi competitive game unless the devs are just completely against the idea of sbmm, like in the case of XDefiant
7:55 I can chime into this a bit:
People who play casually will still win, the game can’t tell when someone is winning casually or winning by sweating, so even if you play casually you will still gain MMR and eventually be placed into those sweatier matches at high MMR.
Here’s an example, me and my friend have a combined 18k hours between the two of us, we’re both good at survivor and have dabbled a bit into comp dbd (we don’t do tournaments or have teams but we do know how to play comp), but one week we were just chatting and playing dbd, our builds were shit like autodidact, any means, real off meta perks that usually could be hindrances more than game winning meta perks. What about our comms? We just talked about our personal lives, literally 0 in game callouts besides the “oh the killer is [killer name]”, and that’s it. We autopiloted the entire time, just sitting on gens, adhd’ing chases and just giving, nothing about how we played was sweaty, it was as causal as casual gets. Despite all that, we ended up going on an accidental 10 game win streak, without any sweaty play, then we called it a night. Purely through the eyes of SBMM, we were gods, now at the highest MMR possible, ir at least a lot higher than we were the day before, so without playing sweaty, just playing casually as coconuts suggested, we were out into sweatier and harder matches, forcing us to slowly start locking in, changing our perks to meta, talking less to each other about our days and speaking only in callouts, and that was the only way we could have fun without purposefully throwing matches to rank our rank.
So while SBMM will put casuals against casuals, it will eventually put good casuals against sweaty people, even if the good casual players don’t want to sweat and just wanna vibe with other casual killers/survivors. We all never want to lose, and if you’re good, you gotta give up on fucking around because higher MMR and memes stop working as much
And you'll know when you hit that high MMR category. It's like every match was up against a DBD win streak killer (went up against One Pump Willie....several times recording his 100+ singularity win streak). Fun times.
Thats if you only have one queue available and dbd is probably one of the few games that only have that, the other games with sbmm have atleast 2 different modes
It takes a thousand hours to master something.
I say this because I want to ask at what point do we distinguish a player between a casual and an actually committed player? I don't think you can count as a casual player anymore, you've crossed multiple thresholds that even most casuals would consider disqualify you. You're clearly very experienced with the game to the point you're getting accidental streaks while handicapped and effectively not caring about the match itself, you're more than likely within the top 5% of play time for dbd globally, you're HERE to begin with (casuals don't consume this type of content or engage in this type of discussion), and your experience with dbd comp quite literally puts you in the 1% of the playerbase.
Not even by the standards of sbmm, just by regular human standards you have admitted to being an exceptional player that can hit winstreaks without trying. Your casual is literally considered content to most of the playerbase. You "are" the sweaty player to most of the community despite your attempts not to be.
I'm not asking this to be confrontational, this is a genuine question that I see often in the sbmm discussion. Extremely good players that can stomp most of the community asking to stay within that general pool instead of one that can remotely challenge them, I find they often don't consider themselves to be the sweat either.
@@MhnFive being sweaty is a choice, if I limit myself to only playing at 25% my capacity, I’m gonna be comparable to average players, e.g. casual. Casual/sweaty isn’t a level of skill but a level of effort, a bad player can be sweaty and a good player can be casual, dbd is just in a unique state where because there’s so little mechanical skill and it’s all macro game sense it’s a little harder to “handicap” yourself, but I do still think with 80% of my opponents and randoms having somewhere between 1-4k hours on average, sure I’m still far above them, but they take up a large majority of all MMR levels besides brand new, so casual play is still a possibility for someone like me
@@krtar4199 That's honestly very fascinating, especially the part regarding skill vs effort since, as you said, DBD is a rather unique game where macro is far more relevant than micro. I've always figured it made the dbd conversation so much more difficult because how do you even adjust for macro? A good player can put in less effort but even they can't rewrite years of autopilot. In your case, your 25% capacity being many players 80%.
It makes it even more difficult when you try and distinguish objectively between good and sweat if it's something the player themselves can decide. Entirely anecdotal but I've seen plenty of people say they aren't sweats because their winstreaks end at 15 instead of 20. I struggle to determine how wrong they are.
I also greatly wish we had statistics on play time. I trust your judgement, it's just I believe the conversation would be vastly improved if we knew the player % and time spent. All I can say for certain is most gamers simply don't cross the 1k hour mark. Such a length used to be used as a flex in the mmo community to signal dedication.
Thank you for the reply, I greatly appreciate it.
14:00 Content has changed a bit actually
In the past, with people like Monto and No0b3, they would almost exclusively do either gimmick builds or flashy non practical plays, but now, people like Ayrun and JRM still do that, and many smaller creators trying to follow in their footsteps, but even Ayrun frequently uploads more and more sweatier gameplay, given that he is a tournament player as well, and JRM is the same way. Stuff like hardcore survivor, survivor escape streaks, or ayrun monthly “DBDS HARDEST CHALLENGE” videos, it dwells into sweatier content than it used to be a few years ago. And that’s just using Ayrun and JRM as examples, we nowadays have significantly more big name DBD content creators and most are just people who main one killer and show off their high skill, like Alranican or crohmbs for wesker, Lynxie for twins, onepumpwilly for sadako, or that guy who wrote the 100 page clown guide. Even otzdarva is like that, his content is playing the game at a high level.
Digressing a bit, the content is more abundant, and while there still is a good amount of meme content from the usual suspects, we can also see a larger and faster increase of sweatier content nowadays
Basically, what I'm saying is, where's the fun for the former sweats who are now "high skill" casual adults who only have time to play for an hour or two on weeknights?
You should research "engagement-based matchmaking", it's the real issue here. No longer do most games run true SBMM; COD, Battlefield (if people still play the recent title lol), Siege, Apex, etc. Basically, they learn what kind of player you are and throw you into grinders where you have a very low chance of winning, then right when they think you're going to quit, they'll give u a better/winning match. They also often pad lobbies when you buy cosmetics.
You're correct. Im baffled people are blaming SBMM. I guess people need easy games to feel good about themselves. The reason games hide rank is because they use EOMM to manipulate wins/losses. This is why they all hide their MMR.
Ive always hated mmr. Games used to be random whatever you played. Thats what was fun about games before mmr. Now we are forced to play the same way every match on whatever game you play like its some damn tournament and MOST ppl play for fun. Mmr is just a bad idea. Atleast every game that has it should have seperate playlists barr minimum
16:45 WINNING. That’s where the catharsis is. If the system is well designed and if you are playing consistently, you will win about half the time. And if you actually improve, you’ll win even more.
The root of the problem is in the game design. The goals of the killer and survivors are at odds with one another. There is too much emphasis on the killer preventing survivors' progress/escape. Instead, they could make changes to create more synergies between the killer and survivors' objectives, focusing more on the desired experience/fun. If good survivors and a good killer could both do well in a match it would be a much more fun and healthier game.
I summarize dbd like this :
You did bad in dbd .. you feel like shit and other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end
You did bad in dbd .. you feel amazing and other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end
You did well in dbd, .. you feel like shit and other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end
You did well in dbd .. you feel amazing and other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end
So there is only one thing certain .. other team will let you know how crappy you are and will make sure you feel bad in the end.
This is why I tend to run with a meme build, don't tunnel, let people heal, and don't 3 gen. When I win they have literally nothing to talk shit about, and when I lose it's "No shit, I'm running beast of prey, thrill of the hunt and distressing."
I imagine it's the same with No Mither players on the survivor side. You literally can't feel bad when playing a self-imposed challenge.
@@Aquilenne This is THE Low-Tier Excuse bro lol
I kinda disagree, im aware of when someone outplayed me or overcome handicaps like maps rng and still do well and im sure to let them know on end game chat, and I get props from the other side too ( ofc there allways exceptions ).
@@Nyxlight3 I did try to play on new account one time and yes for a week or two it was actually quite nice. People were relaxed, they were nice in end game chat. They even congratulated me and acknowledged my skills and I did the same. It felt really fun. (I suppose you are in this phase of the game or you are playing in NA servers which I find way more relaxed than EU) Then I suppose I eventually reached my rank back and I never heard anything good and nice again. I literally got banned by a popular French streamer because I 4k his team. I outplayed them and got a nice bucket of attacks after I came to the stream to say gg and thank them for the nice game. Then I got literally paraded in front of the audience only to be banned in the end. I am glad you have nice experience but plenty of us didn't.
@@SensejWorld It is true than on lower ranks things are more casual and yes I play on EU, since bhvr don't wanna tell us our real mmr im not sure of how different our experiences can be, but even if im sure my mmr is not at tournament player lvl on any means, I can say confident I am pretty decent on both sides, and I also don't deny there are bad experiences but idk just last week I was looping a spanish streamer as Nea who was trying Huntress 1 time ( I didn't know at the time ) and since I play a lot of Huntress myself I was able to loop him 5 gens so in the end it was 4 escape. I just go to end chat to say I wasn't trying been mean by flashlights clicks but been "toxic" it was a strat I use playing solo Q as way to avoid my teammates getting hook on 10 sec by focusing killer attention on me. He replied he allready know it wasn't smart stay on me,but he want to train with hatchets and invite me to his stream and chat wasn't mean with me on any way.
Its true it was a smaller streamer, a big one probably ignored me but it works as an example, it can feel there's more bad than good but most of time is because we hold tight bad experiences and tend to forget about good ones, wich I understand, but imo most of the times those types of toxicity are no that focused on you, rather on personal problems/having bad day on the other side.
True and Coco collab when?
Hopefully never, i'm mega not a fan of this guy at all. guy doesn't offer or have any valuable opinions or thoughts at all, hes just there to try and dumb down something already said.
He pronounces things really weirdly…. Then he pronounces other things normally so idk what his deal is lol
Okay, that begs the question, do proper comp titles utilise such system? Or it only the issue of a semi-competitive games?
Loving the react content tru3
I feel like even if they went back to the old mm system or create a better one, the queue times accumulated over time after a long session will feel really really bad. And the reason for that is just our playerbase not being huge enough for something like that. Especially if for example they were to divide it into Normal MM and Ranked MM. It will be horrendous based on our playerbase. It feels to me that many people forget that we are not a lot of people playing this game.
Love the new react style videos
It's fun seeing both Tru3 and Coconut reaching a lot of the same conclusions seperately. Great minds think like.
I would truly like to see you try to go on a win streak. Pick your best killer. Give it like 5 attempts and see how far you get. I'm genuinely curious.
SBMM as a topic is easily summed up to whether the game is designed for sweaty matches. CSGO, Overwatch, Valorant, LOL, all games designed and balanced (Overwatch less so than the others) with competitive in mind and noone ever complains about SBMM in those games because it feels fair. When you lose, you feel you lost to skill and people adore the challenge. COD and DBD are balanced with the lowest common denominator in mind, therefor having your matchmaking be designed around your game being balanced while it blatantly isn't creates an unfun frustrating experience and therefor people will complain about it.
dbd isnt even balanced for low level much either, its blaanced for single player teams which is about 1% of the playerbase now since everything is just swf and bhvr is like yea lets balance more perks as if they are all solo players, even the mmr systemm is based on solo mmr
Lol, cod doesn’t have sbmm😂. It’s EBMM. SBMM wouldn’t be putting such shit players and one god on the same team, it would either be all gods or all noobs.
I play shooters casually anymore and I never feel like I'm actually improving in call of duty because they toss me a bone when I have a bad game and then put me up against what feels like team optic when I have a solid game. I never felt like I was moving in either direction.
So I quit it. Most of my time is spent in fighting games and I'm use to seeing/feeling improvement
Would you say that pop and pain res actually encourage healthy killer game play because they reward you for hooking different survivors and leaving after you’ve hooked to go kick a gen?
I play the game for a couple days after every update, and usually I only play killer, just because I enjoy it more. But usually as I play I get more 3 kills than I get 0-1 kills and due to that I'll randomly come back to the game and be playing again some super sweaty people on my first game back just because a couple weeks before I had gotten a 3-4 streak of 4k's
H2 was the peak of multiplayer gaming.
We need to follow its design principles
Absolutely! The sbmm had good intentions, but it ends up making so many stressful matches, and that burns players out. The last react was about content creators leaving, but we don't see how many casual players just leave quietly. Those players shouldn't feel like they need to sweat to play a fun game. It's totally true that the casual experience will require adept play to have fun (or to not get frustrated at the very least.)
If they are aiming for casual to have more fun, away from the hardcore players, they are doing it wrong. Casuals eventually gain mmr, and will end up against sweaty players, and it all happens so fast.
I haven't taken a kill as Billy since Overcharge was introduced (just drift around and go for long snipes), and I face the most baby survivors as him. I still let them all escape, but I make it exciting and challenging, to make up for the stress that low mmr faces.
TrU3Ta1ent, I love your channel so much, I just had to subscribe!
This is a bot.
I saw a very similar comment by “IOSALive” on Callum’s Corner Channel video: “Searching For Elephants In The Jungle - Perfect Day In Chiang Mai” in fact he’s on your channel. You also only have 36,000 subs yet you’re verified. Very fishy.
There's always the concern of whether or not the developers have the same metrics for skill as the community. A lot of Devs also overvalues party queuing in matchmaking as well. Just because 3 Silver players are in a discord call doesnt mean they're sharing useful information and at high levels players use comms even if they're solo queued. Though DbD seems to have the rare opposite issue where they undervalue party queues.
People aren't frustrated that they get unfair matches, they're frustrated that matchmaking is supposed to be giving them fair matches and it feels like it isnt.
I wish SBMM would do as it suggests. Most games I don't feel I'm put against equal skill levels. I think my Win/Loss ratio is 1/10, and even when I win it feels i was carried by the rest of the team. Same can be said when I play as killer. These survivors are well ahead of me; no mindgames or brute force can get me the win.
I understand it's good to issue a challenge, but I feel like I ought to stand a chance. How can players improve if they can't even assess the things they've done wrong? The matchmaking has become so demotivating.
I’ve been playing Halo for 20 years. Halo has always had the best matchmaking hands down.
Halo infinite matchmaking was atrocious 😂 the sbmm is what caused the multiplayer to die
Same. It’s always seemed pretty balanced
@@mohsaic3489I think the removal of game lobbies killed multiplayer. There isn't a community anymore because there isn't a lobby
Haven’t even watched it but my biggest problem with SBMM is when it’s in games with a ranked game mode. The ranked game mode is there for a reason. Back in my day you got thrown into a CoD lobby and you either sink or swim.
tru3 should react to Wacek's trickstar gameplay
might change his mind on his potential
I really wish there was a total free-for-all lobby for DBD. I want it all. A total mixed bag. Makes every game unexpected.
Thing is.. if they did implement an 'unranked' mode, you just KNOW they'd make it not reward Bloodpoints or go towards challenges. So.. itd be useless.
Im coming from a fighting game perspective so my opinion on SBMM is a bit different. Even then i don't care about winning so much to the point where if i lose I'll rage. I rarely get mad at losing and its usually for other reasons not so much SBMM it usually has to do with a specific mechanic I don't think is fair/good for the game. I personally don't really like pub stomping players under my level. I love the crazy scrambles, the combacks and the magic pixel wins that have me on the edge of my seat. The competition makes it fun for me. Stress is apart of thw competitive nature of any game with a goal/Objective/scoreboard. To me SBMM is fine as long as the way how the system works makes sense and the game itself has decent balance. SBMM doesn't matter if the game is broken.
I quit playing dbd well before MMR or SBMM was in the system long but even prior killer always felt stressful.
Especially when I was maybe 200 hours in game and constantly went in with SWFs of 1000+ hour each. Even if those weren't every game even getting once in awhile was super unfun and demoralizing on top of how toxic the whole community to killers in general.
Keep these comin!
Problems with DBD...
Due to Learning Curves: Simply put, it is easier to chase than be chased when you both don't know what you are doing.
Low-Level DBD: Killers Dominate
High-Level DBD: Survivors Dominate
Problem: Balancing one skill level of play unbalances the other.
Casuals make up the majority of players
Sweats make up the majority of core loyal players
This creates the main question of who to please, and at the end of the day, it will always come down to money as that is the primary goal of any videogame company.
I really liked old 1-20 rank system and I believe they should just adjust it to be little better, nowdays that rank means nothing
The dev is talking about the SBMM of Halo 2 and 3.
Back when you could just hop in an Unranked mode and have fun instead of trying to figure out what's been balanced, what's the new meta, and so on.
Not that metas did not exist, which I see many claim when talking about older games, especially in the Call of Duty community when they, in fact, did have clear metas the difference being that in a varied lobby a meta weapon is not required to do well.
This is all exactly why i pretty much only want to play coop multiplayer and no longer competitive multiplayer
Yea. Thats why i stopped watching and playing cod. Because i could feel the SBMM at all times. Like i even had it down to a point where i just would reverse boost in most games. Sorry not sorry. Id rather go into a couple games and die and throw and have one really fun game than constant stressful games. I dont play the game to sweat at all, but if i dont then i get stomped due to me being in a high MMR. So then its either i sweat and the sbmm probably just keeps me at high MMR or just like reverse boost a couple games to lower my MMR and chill and have a fun game. I dont even do it to win i do it PURELY to have ANY fun bc i have gotten to a point for me where sweating isnt fun at all for me im on games to destress and relax. Not to sweat my balls off.
Matchmaking should be for comp ladders games only. In other games it kind of defeats the purpose of ever improving. Instead of having more fun you're never met with easier games or the ability to do anything with your new skills or knowledge, instead you are punished and forever stressed out.
Modern Day SBMM does make the game bad for most. (In pub matches)
Low skilled, assuming they are not implementing bots or have much wider search parameters will be in their own version of a sweaty lobby.
Average and above get thrown in their versions of sweaty lobbies.
Then anyone who plays with friends that are not at the same skill levels also suffers as it brings those lower skilled friends/family or whatever they play with into a bracket they can not compete in and the player with the higher MR gets an easier lobby. So it's better for the higher MR player, but usually, resorts in the lower MR ending the session from getting repeatably stomped.
Problem is have with memey builds vs win streaks as both are collectively smurfing.
A “meme” build really only works on low ranked players and is considered bullying.
Meanwhile the win streaks can realistically only be maintained via luck or consistent smurfing.
Win streaks are healthier though as the build it shows should at least be helpful for the lower level players.
Also meme builds can seem quite discouraging to some players as its in the name.
Similar to “dumb” techs.
never understood people complaining about SBMM, you are playing against your skill level, it's been like this since brood war days. nothing ruins my day like running into someone 4 ranks higher than myself on r6 siege. id rather just face my rank.
17:22 It’s only demoralizing if you play at the same skill level as usual but are handed a string of losses due to a bad skill system.
Okay if ranked mode was 5v5 that would go pretty hard
14:18 regarding the memey dbd content. Just wondering, do you ever visit other dbd content creator streams? From what I’ve seen, getting the content can take a long time as what the content creator is trying to do is actually kinda hard because most games they are going against competent killers. It’ll be the one game that they can do the memey thing that gets uploaded to RUclips.
And that will be the game they got a far less experienced killer than usual. (Forgot to add that at the end of my original comment)
For the Prioritization I think it's worded weirdly. I don't think de-prioritized is the right word as much as opened the initial pool. So you would still have mmr matches but instead of it looking for masters, then diamonds then platnium it just started pooling everything to silver and first come first serve.
the problem with sbmm in any game is you don't get the reward for getting better at the game (which would be winning games) since each time you upgrade your gameplay so do your enemies and therefore you don't get the feedback needed to feel good. There's no point in trying, if you try you will lose more.
That's why they have rankings for the sake of feeling some progression. I don't see how you can be a competitive minded person but hate SBMM. The whole point of SBMM is for you to feel like you're getting better and better players to stack yourself up against. I've always seen the arguments against it always amount to a cloaked way of saying "I wanna annihilate shit players."
@@clarencegutsy7309 Are you reading what you write? How can the point of sbmm be to feel progression in skill if your winrate and matches are all gonna be the same? The actual point is to retain most casual playerbase that play the game once or twice a week.
You say it's because people wanna win easily, but let me ask you something. Old lobbies of cod with no sbmm (or even just dbd before they added it) had the most fun matches ever in the series and EVERYONE including casuals agree on that. How so? Because it's a natural market where if you are constantly playing matches you will eventually learn how to play better by yourself and once you do get better you can see the result in most matches, making it fun to actually invest your time into learning the game. And if you really wanna be testing yourself to the limit and progress fay beyond what a casual would, there's a competitive/ranked game mode in most games.
You have to understand this matchmaking was created to maximize profit from casual people who are the ones that spend the most money on in game purchases believe it or not. It was NOT created to have fun matches.
@@clarencegutsy7309 also rankings in this particular game have nothing to do with your mmr, they literally mean absolutely nothing.
@@clarencegutsy7309 Where exactly did OP say anything about shit players or annihilating them? Or did I all of a sudden forget English over night?
@@Gian_sas You don't learn how to play better when all you're doing is facing scrubs all day, hence why rankings exist in the first place to feel that progression of skill and growth. If you can't pinpoint how you've evolved as a player from hour 1 to hour 200 then you're being disingenuous unless you are extremely and I mean extremely terrible.
Keep in mind I'm not singling out DBD exclusively but how so many complaints of SBMM comes down to having people in any multiplayer game prefer to destroy newbies and weekend dads. Your gripes with the system don't make sense because they're unrealistic. You're that guy who plays fighting game lobbies and leaves once he sees someone with hundreds of matches pop in but if you see a 3-21 record then you're mashing ready like no tomorrow.
Trying to place people on a level playing field against one another is ultimately a good idea and is always going to be hated by those that claim they want "chill/non sweaty" games when they really meant to say "less experienced/bad players." SBMM may not be perfect a solution for every game but it's a shitload better than the alternate being a 4000 hour Nurse who deranked to face people with under 100.
Video summary: "Nooo I don't wanna lose it hurts my ego 😢😢"
what successful online game has NOT had some matchmaking going on? And in which of those (apart from 1v1 scenarios like chess or starcraft) has the matchmaking ever been considered "great"?
the problem with sbmm is the metric.
if they counted something else than kills/escapes it could be an actual reflection of skill.
The idea that matchmaking is flawed from the get go is absolute bunk tho.
People enjoy watching their content creator win, if you make a meme build we don't expect you to lose, we expect that, since you uploaded it, you'll win. Unfortunately, in order to win, you usually have to use good builds. Meme content in swf is not build dependant and going for the occasional bush tech might work which is why it's in the video.
3:03 i don't think so, cause if that's the case why nerf all these perks and make all these changes to killer for baby survivors to feel like they're better than they are
i love everyone is covering this. it was originally about how halo infinite was dogshit then dbd found it and i was so happy to see it covered because it's relevant to so many games.
also i love the "care" to the new players like "you dont want them to be dropped into a meat grinder riiiight??" it's like they still are! a hard match for them is like someone with maybe a day of play time. barely anything! everyone suffers now! including them.
thank you so much for covering this tru. choy covered it and i still remember months ago the boys unknown covered it when it started over halo infinite vs halo 3. if all the dbd boys cover this it'll spit at the idea of sbmm in front of the devs.
@7:58 SBMM doesn't incentivize smurfing. It literally creates it and makes it possible. Smurfing is impossible without a SBMM system. Back in the day, when we used to be matched with other low-ping players, smurfing didn't exist.
Games didn't used to have SBMM back in the day, and they never struggled as a result of that.
TF2 had a long and healthy lifespan despite the game being around for _9 years_ before any form of matchmaking was introduced. You just opened the server browser, picked one you liked the look of, and hopped straight in. Who you were playing with/against was luck of the draw. Completely unfiltered.
Sometimes you would get shit on by god-tier players with hundreds to thousands of hours under their belt. Sometimes you would be the one shitting on other players who would in turn see you as the 'god-tier player'.
Being a completely new player in that environment was a rough start, sure, but seeing one guy topping the leaderboards and singlehandedly dominating the game was more inspiring than disheartening. You would think "damn, I can't wait to get as good as that guy is and start dominating matches myself". Likewise if you get destroyed by a Soldier doing fancy rocketjumps you end up thinking "Cool! I should really learn how to do that!".
Games did not struggle without SBMM back then, so what changed?
I'd argue it's the consumer base that changed. The newer generations of gamers are fickle and have very little patience with their games. If they can't pick it up and immediately start winning within their first day of playing they will write it off as bad and jump ship to the next game that takes their interest. They can't seem to grasp the concept that you have to take the time to get good at a game before you can expect to start winning at it. Games like Unreal Tournament and Quake wouldn't survive in today's climate, despite being incredibly popular during their time.
This fickleness is why games released these days have to find ways to throw free wins at newer players (either through manipulating who they play against or even using fake lobbies full of bots) in order to maintain their interest. I'd even go as far as to say that this fickleness is the reason why the gaming scene as a whole is largely dominated by a small handful of games. Whenever something new or innovative comes along that steps outside of the formula people are accustomed to the players quickly lose interest in having to actually learn something new and quickly drop it to go back to 'ol reliable'.
The incentive to get good back in the day was so that _you_ could be the 'power player' in your lobbies, singlehandedly impacting the match and carrying your team to victory.
With SBMM that incentive no longer exists, because no matter how good you get the game is specifically engineered to maintain that 50% win ratio and prevent any single player from being a 'power player'. The incentive to get good these days is nothing more than a superficial badge/number next to your username that tells everyone else what 'rank' you are. It's simply not the same.
They should add casual game mode and rank mode with leaderboard. In rank mode they should let survivor ban 4 perk, killer ban 4 every survivor bans 1 so many problem would be solved.
I think there should be a MM with like 3 Brackets... one for "Beginners" one for some mor advanced Players... and one for Long-time Players. And that's it... if I start today with the Game... and I get into matches where I have to fight Players on Tru3's caliber... I would just quit the game. xD
I’ve been playing games since the 90s before mmr was a thing. The early days of cod or socom, matches were better because you would get variety. Sometimes I would get wrecked while other times I would wreck or have a close game. SBMM popped up when the culture of woke appeared. When that happened we started seeing safe spaces and to me SBMM is an online safe space. Now I mostly play single player and coop because I got tired of only going against sweaty people because my mmr always gets up there. When I get home from work I want variety, not a constant sweat fest because they want to keep low level people in safe spaces 🤦♂️.
Ranked and unranked doesn’t work. SWFs gravitate to Unranked matches so they can maintain rank, but also stomp someone wanting a casual game and avoid Blights every game. Killers sweat in both, slug tunnel etc etc. They have that in DBD mobile, where ranked is less sweaty.
Also, after watching many videos I don’t understand what Tru3 would deem as balanced. To balance at the top level like he talks about (eg balancing around his idea that a 4 man Swfs at the highest level is stronger than killer, even though the vast majority of casual matches favour killers) you’d destroy the base game even more-maybe I’m wrong.
27:34 If you imagine the MMR System as a Number from - lets say - 0 to 1 (0 no MMR, 1 MMR) if you take the variable 0,5 its de-prioritized because 1 would be the full MMR search criteria. i'd imagine thats how it would work. Its like an "ON" or "OFF" switch but at 0,5 its somwhere in between ON & OFF
45:17 I still dont get why some ppl still cant see that SWF is a huge problem in this game. It is a fact that if you play vs SWF, your match becomes exponantial more difficult (talking top 3% ofc). They don't even have to be in Discord, just 4 good players equally to your own skill level and you are fucked. It is so obvious. Thats the reason "Comp" DBD is a joke even with all the Banned Perks. DBD will never be E-Sports.
No one was complaining about gaming back then, everybody was happy with gaming. You say you don't want sbmm and guess what people will tell you? "It's a skill issue" also the issue with sbmm is you'll go against the same players at the top every damn day. It just needs to be balanced better and currently sbmm is not it for every game.
The thing about DBD is that it's not designed to be competitively balanced. The intention wasn't to have people become as good at the game as they have, it was meant to be more party game style which is evident when you look at the sheer amount of RNG that exists in the game.
Can people be really good at the game anyway? Of course, but the game wasn't meant to become this optomized.
the devs seem to be older ppl who try so hard to protect people like them; let's face it, they aren't getting a young audience any time soon. The game is legit kinda unknown to teens. "Sweaty teens on monster"... all they want is that their old audience comes back from work, sits on the couch and plays the game casually and still feel like they are good at it. The vast majority of the players are probably 25+ if not 30+. The devs know that if these 30+ casuals leave, the game dies so they sell them lies about them being "rank 1" in their game. Pathetic
(btw ik 30 isn't old but it's just on the older side in gaming)
I with the basic principle but with COD you have to remember there's variables to controller being a massive benefit and also benefits to kbam (movement) there should never be a competitive skill base matchmaking where there are so many unbalanced and unfair situations. Competitive play has no place in a game where there are benefits to either player to begin with. With DBD the game is based around strategy so it can pass but with cod it simply comes down to out aiming your opponent who sadly has an advantage in some way.
id add i agree with sbmm in games that have competitive play but with cod the variable is too different in regards to the main mechanic in the game which is why its such a hot topic in that franchise
Remember when red rank 1 killers would literally have to wait 40 mins for a lobby? what a time to be alive
5:35 In dbds case, this wasn't true according to the community. Not sure if you remember, but at the time (before SBMM) people constantly complained about matchmaking sucking. It was always hit boxes and matchmaking excuses when a popular streamer lost. Noob3 comes to mind as a person that complained about this, but he wasn't the only one. You'd also see a lot of people in post game chat checking hours and then complaining about being matched with someone with thousands of hours when they were new. IT WAS A HUGE complaint in this community.
So, the devs introduced SBMM and then all of a sudden, everyone changed their tune....even the streamers. This is not directed at you specifically, but I hardly think you can blame SBMM on Behavior. They listened to the community and implemented a solution.
from what i've seen, people complained about imbalanced matchmaking when they were in a lobby with people better than them and getting bodied, now they'll complain about SBMM because they have to try to win. personally i had quit DBD not even a day in, because my first 6 or so matches in a row were all against multiple prestige red tier players while i had less than an hour in the game. unbalanced matches where you had no chance from the outset turns people away from whatever game it is.
to anyone who says "i don't play to try, but to have fun" wouldn't your MMR be at your "for fun" level and not your "try hard" level?
@nunote2362 I don't disagree with you. I don't think SBMM was a bad thing to address the complaints at the time. However, personally I found the game more fun before it because the lobbies were such a mixed bag. I do have a theory, though: I don't think it's matchmaking that is the issue currently. It's player skill level. Even people that only have a few hundred hours do stuff like techs, optimal strats, and meta builds, etc.. People back in 2018 didn't do this kind of stuff on such a mass scale. The devs need to destroy all metas and make perks weaker overall. Also, I wouldn't be opposed to completely changing the gameplay loop. Like can they really not think of any other objectives besides gens and kills?
Im tired of hearing the excuse “for new players” when literally they themselves said that most players have 1000s of hours new people are most likely coming in watching dbd or because someone they know plays it and will learn very fast my bf started last week literally is already looping killer cause I’m teaching him I also told him enjoy killer while it lasts
Are we all forgetting that even if they went back or even create a good matchmaking the queue times will never feeld good at all ranks. Why? Because DBD playerbase is not huge compared to other big games like CoD, Fortnite and so on.
proof for imbalance is literally the "comp ruleset". high MMR games are anything but balanced
Yea, I dunno man. we thought we used to be toxic back in the day, like we were mean in the 2000s. But, the toxicity has gone way deeper than calling each other names, blowing off steam. I used to love multiplayer games because it was so cool to get people together across the world to have fun, cooperate or compete. Now, it's just taxing, people are intolerable, the biggest game studios using the worst practices.💩
tru3 to start this, i promise i love your videos, and i generally agree with most of your points in this video, but i do disagree with some of your points. sbmm isn't the issue. its balancing. if the game were truly balanced as in more killers and perks were viable, then you'd see more variability in builds(as seen in league of legends). sbmm is necessary for game companies that want to make money. they probably have analytics that show retention rates of new players. there's a good chance that new players who try a game and get stomped by a player that's better than them, have a high chance to quit the game and never return(which means they spend less money on dlcs and cosmetics). and as we know in many pvp games, the majority of players are in low ranks(which is why dbd focuses balancing for them). to the smurf point you made, it does slightly incentivize smurfs, however sbmm lowers the chance of a new player running into a high rank player by a lot. additionally games have started to ban smurf accounts(they put it in their ToS). moreover, sbmm when used properly will allow the smurf account to have a few games vs lower rank players but will quickly match the player vs higher rank players once it calculates the person's elo. i slightly disagree with the notion that sbmm in general is only for casuals, in team based games i would absolutely hate if i had low rank players on my team and the enemy team had the best of the best. sbmm helps high rank players in those examples. i don't support the pure organic nature of potentially going against pure sweats. if you get a player who's new and put them against a high level player they aren't going to learn much about what's going on in the game but when you put them with people around their level they can slowly build up their skill.
You should probably know who Coconut is at this point Tru3. This video is everything you’ve been talking about.
Coconut:)
good killers will know when they shouldn't have won a match and that's usually at the end when the survivors throw themselves at you turning a 3-man escape into a 3 - 4 man kill.
casuals and high lvl players get tough matches with this system. Thats what they are talking about. You never get to feel really good.
The program can't differ good players vs cheaters, that's why all good players constantly get matched vs cheaters. All these players who claim to "never met a cheater" are just shitty players and get matched to other shitty players.
That dev that says "skilled play leads to kills or escapes" in the same game that noed exists 😂😂
the hockey analogy is strange for a number of reasons, such as hockey being competitively symmetrical UNLIKE dead by daylight lol
the stupid part about the hockey comment on dbd is last time we checked hockey has 2 teams wheres the killers team? cos its 4v1 dont remember seeeing that in hockey where its one goalie vs the entire other team, and the reason why they took so long to find matches for sweaty swf at higher ranks cos the game is still unbalnced and favoured to them so of course less killers were up there cos survivors were getting deepthroated by bhvr to be up there
you're pushed away from being good at the fucking game, THATS what kills shit with sbmm. No payoff for improving your reaction time, awareness, and aim except for harder lobbies. that "mix" of you stomping, being even, and being stomped IS WHAT PUSHES YOU TO PLAY MORE AND IMPROVE. fuck this only "fair" bullshit, because what ends up happening is you have to choose between winning And losing instead of having fun. WHY IS THE THING YOU CHOOSE TO SPEND TIME ON TO DE-STRESS FROM REAL LIFE PROBLEMS MAKING YOU MAD????
"OoOoO dont take the game so seriously"
so i should be happy to lose every game? YALL OBVIOUSLY DIDNT LIKE IT, SINCE ENOUGH PPL CRIED FOR SBMM TO BE PUT IN. so now skill means nothing but having to sweat every game.
Yall remember WAY back in the day playing black ops 2 for the first hour and up until you hit like level 20, you only played ppl in that same position? called the bootcamp playlist i think.
that is what theyve done with pvp games now, except now, instead of letting you loose into the wild to have fun past a certain point, they put fucking chains around your hands and only add more the better you become.
Party game? What party would you play dead by daylight at?
DBD started off as a casual party game at the very beginning. But of course you wont remember that.
I dont feel the buffer was added because of why you think. You yourself were among many of high influential content creators rallying for the end of sbmm because of stress levels and being stuck with hackers. Sbmm was a counter to deranking which the same people whining about sbmm are the same that complained about deranking in the emblem system.
I don't get what Tru3's opinion is here. Is he for or against SBMM?
Lol I was thinking the same thing..no idea
He doesn't care about sbmm itself but hates that there is no visual indication of what your sbmm rank or number is, so it's gives a blind view that if two players have the same rank but one is worse and one is great, it makes people think they are the same skill level even if one is insanely worse
@@osi3718 Why in any universe would that matter? As he ever made a strong argument for why that at all is important?
@@rje613It must be language barrier if you did not get it.
@@rje613bro so lost holy shii☠️
MMR makes the game consistently more sweaty because the killer will be trying their hardest no matter how casual the survivors they are going against are. I do no think MMR helps casual player in the slightest
RUclips dbd used to be fun builds but like recently they changed bc everyone already has seen all the flashbang background player plays. Its not even like exciting or fun for really anyone to do anymore. Theres less skill expression on both sides, so its harder to make interesting content when they’ve removed all the techs and fun out of the game. Once they remove hug tech boom theres goes blight content. They remove wesker techs then wesker content is harder to get therefore youtubers dont want to post in general. A. They have already done everything you can in the game and B. Less fun tech and memey stuff in the game
2018 RUclips DBD was peak dbd tbh
@@Agaroth3010 exactly the only thing people post thats interesting is beating cheaters. Bc we have done everything there is in the game so much that the only thing to conquer are people who are using cheats lmao. And the content is just them beating cheaters so its not even bc of the game its just bc people like seeing cheaters get dookied on.
SBMM together with battlepass systems made me stop playing modern games completely. They basically turn games into jobs.
SBMM ruins it for me because it ensures that _every_ match is either incredibly sweaty or incredibly boring (depending on the game's implementation of the system, some will put a shitty team vs a literal E-sports team, like Halo MCC does).
Battlepass because it forces me to play even when I don't want to if I want to have _any_ chance of unlocking something. As a completionist I want the ability to unlock stuff at my own pace and when I want to.
Borther you have problems with sbmm can we talk about it where you are available
I've told you this a million times and i will still say it: ADD RANKED
Tru3. I’m I fan of reaction videos, but you REALLY need to give the video a chance of offering you information of something to react to. This is new for you. This was, “Nope. Pause. MY opinion.” immediately. Let the video play for a bit man.
ya But DBD is trash because it is broken and unfairly buffed on one side is unbalanced and unfairly favours one side, leading to a frustrating and salty experience for players.
20:45 “think about sports, and I’ll use hockey as an example cos I’m Canadian” as his analogy to explain why skill essentially shouldn’t be rewarded
It’s Canadians who make fifa or FC as it’s known now, no wonder that game doesn’t resemble football one bit and there’s hardly a skill gap in it no more, they appeal to casuals obviously but it seems they don’t even understand the basis of competition or sport or anything full stop 😂 this is why I call EA terrorists and predators, they’ve highjacked a sport which people follow religiously, then design the game in a pay to win way, bearing in mind most the people who play that game are kids/teens, a lot of us grew up on fifa too so there’s still plenty of adults with a wage that can spend too, but it’s incredible how many stories there’s been of kids literally stealing from their parents cos they have a crippling gambling addiction from fifa
I have a real issue with Canadian developers, they’re very deceptive and coercive, and borderline thieves
And even after this point the Asian guy reacting goes on to say games are more competitive this way, no they are more sweaty and focus on abusing mechanics and broken things that aren’t balanced… 😂 the games are broken, that’s why they’re stressful, you feel like you’re competing with the game more than your opponent 🤦♂️😂
And the tweet saying DBD was once a party game, I do agree with that sentiment, but it’s cos the game blew up from out of nothing, then people actually stuck around and got good at it, it was only a party game cos it was a huge player base of awful players but everyone still had fun together, playing with friends, against friends, or solo
But to be against DC penalties… even in a party game if someone DCs it’s not acceptable behaviour and it should be punished, it’s only annoying when you genuinely disconnect and are punished, but if you quit, no one wants you on that game anyways
This happens in fifa a lot too, people backing out of games 10 seconds into the match, so they play the game all day in the menus grinding and spending money to get a good team, to then jump into a match just to randomly quit for objectives and stuff id assume, and people celebrate this behaviour like “yes I just won, you are everything that’s right with this community, backing out and giving me the win”
No one wants to actually play the game, as it’s tedious and broken and very time consuming, how are we at a point where no one wants to play a game but it’s still considered a good game 😂
Dbd the game that still havent done anything with Devotion levels, and no reason to get over p6 on a survivor or killer.
SBMM isn't the problem the problem is these games mess with numbers in the background to trick you into playing more. COD I bet doesn't even have SBMM it's just something for players to blame. COD will boost damage of skins in the background but won't say anything, they'll lower your damage all game so you die a lot and it pushes you to try harder next game keeping you playing. It's not SBMM it's just one big ass mind game I've been telling people about since the first time they did MW3. They've been playing some dirty mind games in the background for years. It's not SBMM that's make you die in 2-3 hits but takes you 4-6 to kill it's their mind games. If games wouldn't trick people into playing longer then SBMM would work but right now I 100% think there has never been SBMM in COD it's always been mind games.