.308 vs 6.5 Grendel - Compare which is right for you.
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- (links below) FOLKS....THIS IS NOT A HEAD TO HEAD COMPARISON, YES, THE AMMO IS NOT THE SAME. These are two VERY different, yet similar cartridges on COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LOWERS. The POINT of this was to see how close the 6.5 (AR15) is to the .308 (AR10) using the AR-15 platform. For many, the 6.5 may be an option for hunting using their existing AR-15. It's the best you can get for an AR15.
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Drew
I got out of .308 because of 6.5 Grendel.
There are over 80 factory Grendel loads now as of 2019.
Any soft points since Federal quit making their Fusion in Grendel?
Good luck finding them now (2022).
If I owned my own army and had a chance, today I would chamber all assault rifles, platoon sniper rifles and machine guns for 6.5 Grendel round, and call it done. This round just cuts it all at the highest level. Logistics and simplicity would be just phenomenal.
Lulo Lee I agree for the most part. That being said the military is testing the .338 Norma Mag as a replacement for the 240 series of machine guns. To me that is exactly what we want. Energy, Range and reduction in fire rate to conserve ammunition while suppressing enemy combatants is a win to me. Now for the 249... firing a 6.5 Grendel on a belt would be pretty nice as long as it’s more reliable than the 249. I’m with your argument all the way. But I’m a huge fan of the potential change to the most casualty producing weapon our dismounted boys tote around
Serbia has adopted GRENDEL for it's primary cartridge. If I were running the show, the USA already would have.
I have! No regrets!
Love my 6.5 Grendel! Like he said, great deer and predator round. Much more fun to shoot than an AR10. A lightweight build can be completed with optics at about 7.5 lbs.
I have .308, 300 BLK, 6.5 Grendel & .223 & 30/30. Love them all but, the 6.5 Grendel and my .300 BLK are my go to guns in the boonies. Both are very capable as are the others but, several years ago I destroyed both of my shoulders. My right was rebuilt using cadaver parts and my left was not rebuildable (just muscle holding it together). I cannot handle recoil any more than my .308 or my 30/30, but too many of those and it gets downright uncomfortable. I love the 300 BLK and the 6.5 for the weight factor also and at 72 years old I need all the help I can get. I enjoyed your video on this subject and yes, your reasoning was the same things I considered !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Sir. I enjoyed reading your response and its always good to hear we are not crazy.
nice to see an old timer not afraid of new cartridges...i use what works old or new
OUTSTANDING, thanks for the feedback!
What old timer??? :)
I agree but the .300 blackout is just another wild cat pistol cartridge .
I have both and each has a place in my heart. The 6.5 deer hunting under 400 and ringing steel out to 1000. The .308 out to 600 for deer and 1200 for ringing steel.
The weight and accuracy of the Grendel however is my first pick if the house is on fire! It’s fun to shoot because of the tame recoil and light weight yet it PERFORMS!
I just built a 6.5 for a wheelchair bound friend whose in is late 50s and its perfect for him.
That’s awesome.
only 3lbs difference??? 3lbs difference is ENORMOUS when talking guns thats a Drastic amount of weight reduction!! I thought you were gonna say the 308 came in 6-8 oz Heavier or something .
True, the point was they are all heavy guns in my opinion. I would not want to lug any of them around in the field.
My 18" Grendel is 7lbs, 12oz with scope and empty magazine
About that POF Revolution and it's a lightweight 308 I still have not shot this gun but it has real low recoil. Oh I'm going up north and I'm going to take it out take a couple shots with it. I think it's the 308 to have those since it's using an AR-15 frame.
Let us know what you think.
@@FarrelClement My Lilja Wasp barrel build is about the same, 7lb 12oz with optic and mount.
Nice comparison. I am in the process of a 6.5 grendel build. I have a 308, 30-06, 6.5 Creedmoor, AR15 in 223, and a bunch of others rifles in other cartridges. My reasoning was here in California the best hunting is all in the mountains and hills and I wanted a semi auto rifle that that wasn't going to kill me trekking up hill but has more range and punch then 223. Also a light recoiling 800 yard gun for shooting in the desert is a plus.
Thanks for the feedback. "You Got it" what I was trying to say. So many people just miss the point altogether and get way off target. Glad you enjoyed and thanks for the positive feedback. Happy hunting brother.
What I love about the Grendel is how efficient it is. It uses just over half the powder of the 308. For militaries it makes way more sense. In the eastern deer woods it makes sense too.
simply for the weight reduction alone I vote for Grendel. less drop at long range also, with comparable balistics
You do a wonderful job of breaking down every possible question I’ve had for both calibers. I went with the 6.5, for no other reason than the AR lower compatibility.
I have an sbr 11 inch barrel 6.5 grendal that I love to carry with a 1x4 scope, thats a great hunting rifle. I hand load 129 sst bullet. Omg
Have you tried the 123sst's? I just picked up 2 boxes at Academy. Have a couple lbs of AA2200 AND 2460 I thought I'd try with em if I can ever find dies.
@@TheStone2531 I have six boxes but been spending finishing grad school because I can’t find primers for anything pistol or small rifle.
I just purchased a 20" SOLGW 6.5 Grendel barrel. I have seen nothing but good things out of those barrels.
This was the video I was looking for! Thank you for a solid, well done presentation with actual data plus experience with both.
6.5x55 swedish calling in. the original. Swedes knew 6.5 was the best 1900... :)
Preaching to the Choir....I think the 6.5 is the best caliber out there. Why I love the 6.5 G
And us Americans proved the 7mm is vastly superior. These are new fad cartridges for ar platforms.
Your comparison is for 6.5 creedmoor not the 6.5 Grendel
@Lightning Strike The 6.5x55 sweed is more comparable to the creedmoor not the Grendel. Yes 6.5 Grendel is similar to 308 I have both but not even close to the creedmoor
@Lightning Strike yeah the sweed would be more like a 30-06 necked down to 6.5. The creedmoor is a 51mm case so less volume. As far as the Grendel I love it. Very close to the 308 n waaaay lighter in a ar platform. Hornady prob wouldnt admit it but its prob the inspiration behind their new 6mm ARC
Thanks J, its nice to hear when folks actually watched the video for what it was intended for :)
I just got a 6.5 grendel upper have yet to fire it. I can't decide on a .308 bdc or a .223 bdc. .264 being right in the middle which way do ya go? Lookin at your chart I'm guessing .308 not a lot of difference there what were the weights of each round for those number? Really light .308 rounds? Some1 told me if u stick with the really light 6.5 rounds the .223 is close....but I don't think I want to use the 107gr rounds
Some1 needs to make a bdc for 6.5
OR should I just get a regular simple old mil scope and figure it out on my own. Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Lastly, I can't believe more people aren't aware of/interested in this round if more people 'got it' cost would come down with popularity
Intermediate cartridges with high ballistic coefficients are the new hotness.
The 6.5 Grendel is like transforming the 7.62x39 AK cartridge into a ballistic cousin of the .243 Winchester. The performance gain over 7.62x39 is huge, and the logistics are promising because Grendel is an official military round (Serbia) and it's AK/AR15 compatible. The cost of 6.5GR brass ammunition should fall in the long run as PPU reallocates production to the US market. 100gr Wolf is cheap and available everywhere, if you have a bolt gun.
Short action rifle cartridges like .308 Win and 6.5 Creedmoor are great, but they are still trumped by good long action rounds like .270 Winchester. The cost of 7.62 NATO ammunition is alluring, but semi-auto .30 cal weapons systems cost a mint, and the carrying/storage logistics aren't great.
I was a Grendel skeptic, but I was wrong. More people need this cartridge as a go-to.
Aaron...OUTSTANDING feedback! I did not know about the Serbian's. I got to look this up. Thanks!
USA is looking at the 6.5creedmoor as a new service round. Could make ammo much cheaper and rifles more abundant.
For me personally creedmoor was more viable since I like to hunt coyotes alot and long distances are frequent. I have no issue taking a shot at 800yd on a coyote since they are considered pests/varmints. Deer and game I keep it within 200yards which a Grendel is more than adequate for.
why not just get a 243w? its easier to get a hold of and cheaper as well.. maybe im just in love with the 243w
@@swedish_steel7861 any NATO round will be easier. Just due to the pure bulk of it made. But that aside 243 will burn barrels a little faster than Grendel. And the 7.62 will have far more knockdown. It's just a matter of what you want it for.
There are some less expensive 7.62/308 battle rifles that cost about the same as a Grendel and AR10's have fallen in price, you can get a pretty decent one for the cost of a Grendel rifle (or upper) as well. Love my PTR-91 which comes from the factory with a Thompson Center barrel, shoots accurately when I want it to but runs through 7.62 Milsurp (with brass casings) at less than 40 cents a round when I need it.
If you live in an area where all you can use to hunt is archery, shotgun or muzzleloader like I do, probably the best caliber remains 556 just because of the cost. You get a flat trajectory, a nice bang, rifle like velocity and ease of shooting with the ability to shoot dirt cheap milsurp ammo that shoots pretty straight as well. A lot of more modern loadings do extend your range as well as hunting options enormously for the 556/223 platform. The Grendel gives you increased capability, but not enormously so and at a price that's not worth it if you can't hunt with centerfire rifle in your area. The more things change, the more they remain the same, IMHO 556 remains the queen of the AR rounds as it's really hard to beat.
Grendel is for ppl that want a round with more power, minimal recoil, long ranges, good ballistics, in an AR15 that they can definitely take deer with.
I bought a 300BLK upper and regretted it because I don't shoot suppressed and after the novelty wore off (fast) I just didn't see a need for it in addition to my AR-15 223 and AR-10 308. So I sold the 300BLK upper. After researching a bit more, as per this vid, I realize that the 6.5 Grendel makes a lot more sense than the 300BLK and should have bought that instead. Not sure I'll ever actually buy one but worth considering as it offers a lot in a smaller package. Great info and vid, thanks.
I sold mine too and got a 7.62x39 upper. Having a BLAST with it, cuz its cheap to shoot.
The 6.5 Grendel and the 224 valkerie both outshoot the 308 at long range. The military is so slow about changes and is controlled by lobbiest. Big business contracts and payoffs is what controls what they use
No they don't...the Valkyrie out shoots the Grendel, the 308 out shoots the Valkyrie. If ya compare all the best match bullets in each caliber and the best handloads...and that is a fact. The Grendel is the worst of the lot... the Valkyrie with a 95 grain SMK plain leaves it in the dust, .600 BC at 2708 fps. 6.5 twist barrel. But my 308 is running .715 bc at 2666 Average fps in the AR and 2734 average in the bolt gun .Even the 308 208 eld- m at 2566 fps .690 BC hangs with the Valkyrie in drop...and smokes in in wind drift.
Standard factory load .. yes they do.
@@rayjohnson4037 standard factory loads .. yes they do.
Military is going to a 6.8 pushed out over 3,000 fps
This was one of the best videos I've seen on 6.5 grendel. Thanks. Have a 7.62x39 ar15. Missed a deer twice that was too far out for that caliber and the current wind conditions. Want to swap to a 20 inch 6.5 grendel next season. This video definitely shows that it is legit.
Imagine if .276 Pedersen had been adopted. Cartridges like this would be the norm.
Great video. I liked that you talked about teaching your young son, too. That's parenting done right. You're a good man!
Thank you Sir, much appreciated!
This video answered my very specific question and I'm glad you talk about this because a lot of people are looking to find that Goldilocks round for whitetail. I agree with the "wasted foot pounds" statement you made. Thanks for the charts, too! It's nice to see the side-by-side comparisons. I'm going with the Grendel for whitetail hunting here in Florida.
Great video...the reason I got into the Grendel was recoil. Had a bolt 308 that hurt after 5 rounds. Wanted something that would work on the ar 15 platform. No more pain. As far as game size, bullet choice and YOUR accuracy opens game size up. Many elk have been taken with .243's. Thanks!!!
Awesome vids. I've recently gotten into 6.5 Grendel and 308 in ar platforms. Great complimentary rounds.
THANKS! I would totally agree. I think the 6.5 is the best if you could only have one for hunting on the AR15 platform.
My buddy and a very good shot dropped a 350lb 5 point bull elk at just over 300 yards a few weeks ago with a 6.5 grendel. That was with a 16" barrel. Bullet placement, ie. practice! The grendel kicks so much less than the 308. You can shoot a lot more before getting beat up. Every cartridge is a compromise. The grendel is a damn good compromise. I'm a long distance guy who likes to push the envelope on cartridges. With a 24' barrel and a Vortex Golden Eagle 15x60x 52mm I've been having fun. You read that right, a 60 power scope and it rocks! Check it out. Be safe guys and have fun.
Nice Kenneth, thanks for sharing. In Europe, the main Elk/Moose gun is still the 6.5 Sweed I believe and its about the same ballistically as the Grendel.
Excellent video, I really like the 6.5 Grendel and hope to coyote hunt with it. It is the "Perfect" sized round for everything we hunt here in Kentucky. I would consider it for Elk as well with a Barns TSX or Nosler Partition loaded Hot within 175 yards. Teaching your children to safely use guns at home and the art of hunting is the proper thing to do. Just remember to Love the Hunt. John R.
I love 6mm Rem for deer hunting! If it ran after the shot it was maybe 20 yards at the most. I can’t wait for my 6.5 Grendel upper to come in. I want to see how it compares to the 6mm Rem.
Really fantastic review. I was thinking about getting a 6.5 Grendel for hunting and this solidified my choice. I already have scopes to put on it. I love contrasting the differences between rounds. Not always similar rounds, but these are close for an average 400 yard distance. Thanks for posting.
Great review on the 6.5 Grendel ammo i have a better understanding now..
Outstanding, that was the idea. Thanks
I've been a loyal .308 carrier all my life.
Now in my 50s with shoulder issues, after shooting a friend's Grendel, and doing LOTS of homework on the cartridge, I AM A GRENDEL USER for the rest of my days!!!
In short, GRENDEL is 308 performance with less than half the recoil. For us older men, that's a big deal!
I stay with the 123 gr Hornady ammo. I have some PPU 120, and it's very good too! The wolf 100 is good for plinking. I love my Grendel!!!
I have a .308 7.62 Nato M110 in an AR Platform & A Remington 700 Magpul in .260 you can keep the 6.5 creedmoor and all its hype . I can shoot just as well with my .260 6.5 -O8 & my .308 7.62mm Nato. I also like the 6.5 Grendel it fill the small gap between the 5.56 /.223 and the 7.62 /.308 .The .260 is a proven long range rifle cartridge and shoots as well as the 6.5 creedmoor with out the HYPE !
I'm building my first AR and I think I'll go with the Grendel to start, then put together a .223 upper later. I have several 30 Caliber guns, and love shooting them all, but they're older military rifles and I don't want to drill them for a scope. A nice modern gun that I can stick a scope on, then mod out a smaller round for home protection is ideal. All your points here were solid. Good Video.
If one reloads and you have the brass it is cheaper to shoot the 6.5 Grendel. Less powder bullets and primers cost the same. The brass is only a little bit more than the .308 Win now that more companies are manufacturing it. Dies may be a little pricier but not by much.
I will need to start reloading at some point. Just dont have the time currently but you are right, I need to. Thanks for the comments Garry.
I'm in a state that will more or less require me to reload in the near future, that's what had me take the leap with building a 6.5 upper. After the first loading of the brass, it looks to be about .40 to .50 a round. For the first use, about .90 a round.
Good job. I wish people would listen instead of reacting. The obvious conclusion is, have at least one of each.
AMEN Brother! Thanks for the feedback. The point was not that one was "best" or better than the other, it was a "comparison". Thanks
Nice video. The 6.5 Grendel is one of my favorite cartridges. I put together a video of my build on my channel. It’s my go to for coyote hunting now. 👍
I DID use different ammo, that was not the point to do a accuracy test but just show they are both accurate and similar but on totally different lowers. The REAL point was to show/explain that the 6.5 is a good option with the AR15 that gets you as close as you can get to the 308 while still using your existing AR15 lower. Keep this in mind, it is NOT a straight up comparison as some have referred to. Many with an AR15 are looking for something "similar/close" to a 308 that they could possibly use on the lower. Hope this helps and clears up any confusion. Thanks for the good and constructive feedback.
V/R
Drew
although you said its not a straight up comparison, you rigged the balistic data by giving the 308 a short range bullet. the 168 ELD in 308 is faster than the grendal, and a higher BC than the grendel, so there isnt a comparison as much as a miss representation of the facts. i did enjoy the vid however, and it does look like a good ar alternative....maybe just not compare it to a 308
"and it does look like a good ar alternative".....There you go man, that was the POINT!
I have a bolt action in 308 and I love to shoot it. But I did not know you could put a 6.5 on an AR15 lower. I almost was going to buy an AR10. Thanks, you saved me alot of money.
Hey, glad to help, thats the idea....and having fun.
Make sure you get e-lander mags. You can use magpul 556 mags, but they don't like it and bind up if more than half full.
I think .308 is a good all around hunting round espically having it in the ar10 platform
TOTALLY agree, why I have 3 of them. Its cheaper to shoot but the 6.5 is great for "little" people like my 10 year old :)
Beyond Seclusion , some of us little people don't have a problem with the recoil, it's carrying a 12 or 13 lb rifle up hill and dale all day that gets tiring. :)
@@BeyondSeclusion while that's true also have to look at bullet drop. Just completely ignoring energy at range since that is heavily bullet influenced. The 6.5 creedmoor has significantly less drop than 7.62 at 1000 yards. The 7.62 can still consistently hit mark out there if built well but just have to aim a lot higher in comparison. So ELR shooting the 6.5 makes sense but that's paper punching numbers. Realistic hunting range the 7.62 will almost always deliver more power regardless of bullet choice. It is also over kill for even medium game like white tail or mule deer so the addition power is mute because the 6.5 will kill them just as effectively. When you step into large game is where the energy difference becomes noticeable.
Personally if you are after medium game I'd take my 6.5 over the 7.62 just purely out of preference. If I was going for something more like elk or moose I'd take the 7.62 for the energy. Assuming I don't have the option of taking a 30-06 or similar as I prefer those over 7.62 also but they also have more power than 7.62 so again that makes the power mute since it's overkill and would then be a preference thing at that point.
@@gamingmadesimple5510 The 308 is similar to the 30 06 in almost all aspects. That's because of the newer powder that was developed in the early 50s allowing a smaller cartridge to have the same performance using the 762 round, which both uses.
@@dallasbeus2117 30-06 can take heavier bullets though because of its increased case size allowing more energy to be delivered especially if you hand load you can get a significant boost in power on all bullet sizes
It took some convincing for me to get into 6.5 , but, I did. I picked Grendel over the Creed because I had three AR's in 223, and now one is a Grendel. I absolutely love how it shoots, and even with an 18 inch barrel, it's so much lighter than my 308 SASS, and almost as light as my 20 inch 223 SPR/Varmint Rifle. The 6.5 sports a SS heavy barrel. My 6.5 and SASS both have PRS Stocks, so that's near 3 more pounds. As a practical matter, the two are twins in different calibers, and both shoot lights out. However, for hunting, I'll just switch to another, lighter lower. I like the idea that one CAN fits both.
Great point on the energy comparison, doesn’t matter if the bullet blows right through the deer. I come from using a 270 to hunt and am looking to hunt with an ar platform
I have both, i love both. Both of my rifles are like my kids not going say one us better than the other. I use my 308 for time night shooting with night scope, generally shooting 168 or 175 grain bullet. I also have 6.5 creedmoor for long distancing shooting. My 6.5 grendel has 11 inch barrel and great compact rifle for stalking my pray. Every rifle is a tool, You just pick the right tool for the right job.
Well that answered a lot of my questions. 👍
This is one thing I know about the grendel that is amazing. Almost no you tubers have anything but praise for this little round.
Even when compared to the .308 most agree the disadvantages are nominal. The only major advantage to the 308 is with game animals larger than deer.
Now if PSA would offer a KS-47 upper in 6.5. The proper curved mags for the tapered parent cartridge should make a sweet package.
Outstanding video. Thanks for really spelling it out for everyone, especially me as I am looking into this. the perfect solution, if you have an AR-15, pop a 6.5 Grendel upper on it. I am... like, tomorrow.
But for SERIOUS work... Well, you know...
I bought a Howa Mini Action barreled action from brownells in 6.5 grendel in june. Dropped it into a Boyds Prairie stock. Perfect youth rifle, perfect lightweight, fast action brush gun. Retired my beloved, custom Enfield MkIV 308 as my primary deer brush gun.
My 16 year old stepdaughter made a beautiful 212 yard running headshot on a 3 point mulie a couple days ago with the Howa (she knows very little about ballistics, she was holding on the tip of his nose during her swing for some reason) and just destroyed his skull. The only thing holding the antlers on was hide n hair. She grabbed a hold of his antlers to swing him around for gutting, and turned a bit green when jetchup and cottage cheese squirted out his ears.
LMAO.....that is a GREAT story!!! I also started LMAO when you said you retired your Enfield MkIV, only because I used to have several and I was thinking of your daughter.....that was very nice of you. I would guess she is appreciative too :) Did she ever shoot the Enfield?
I am so jealous of the fathers getting to hunt with their daughters. Mine did when when she was around 6 but now she LOVES animals and I don't think she will ever pull the trigger. Good for you brother, and good for your daughter! God bless.
She did shoot the Enfield once, four rounds. She couldn't hit anything with open sights, the stocks length of pull is set for me at 14.125 inches. Much too long for her.
A bit of history...my grandfather bought the Enfield in 1949 in Singapore. He was in the Navy and was an engineers mate in the engine room of a ship that i forget the name of. He ran into a Brit officer, who had lost heavily in a poker game. Guy sold him the Enfield and a Swiss watch for $16. In the 60's, Grandpa had a curly maple stock made for it, and had it converted to .308. I dont know who made the barrel. It certainly isn't the original. Just chambering marks and some proof marks, one is a crown with the letter A. Maybe a Brit 308 conversion barrel? It has the original tang sight, and is a handy brush rifle. I have shot many whitetail in Northport, hogs in Texas and Lousiana, mulies here in Central WA, and two elk. 308 works for elk, but not well, thus only two elk.
I love that gun, my 16 year old son wants it bad. 3 generations of my family have used it at one time or another.
I like to think of my grandfather getting home from work in the 60's, listening to the radion and carving and sanding that stock bit by bit. You can't buy that great feeling in a store.
That is cool!
Best comparison I've seen so far. Gets straight to the point.
Thank you Sir! MUCH appreciated.
Love the video. I own several rifles chambered in 308. Mostly use them for precision shooting. I have yet to get the chance to shoot the 6.5 Grendel but after watching the comparison part of your video im starting to get that itch to try it out. Love that it is very similar shooting to the 308, just less power. Great video
Thanks brother, I appreciate the feedback, look forward to hearing what you think.
You got me thinking about getting a 6.5 Creedmoor for my AR10 lower now. I got the 6.5 Grendel for my AR15 lower just as you did. But now my AR10 lower (308) is lonely. LOL. Great video. thank you for your work you put into it.
ruclips.net/video/Uh-1odXDovU/видео.html
I just built a lower from some leftover parts I had laying around, wanting a long-range round and am looking at the Grendel.
6.5 on an ar15 platform if you're mobile.... ar10 .608 if you are not!
Both are awesome!!! Hv both
Very satisfied with my 6.5 Grendel. I've taken deer and hogs with mine.
I like the 6.5 Grendel cartridge. I just wish gun makers would offer more bolt action rifles in this caliber. Semi-auto rifles in the "AR" platform are too expensive.
Check Bear Creek Arsenal. You can get an upper for under 250 with bcg and charging handle. Check out 704 tactical he has a review with complete set up minus optic for 350
@@duanegiroir1497 Thank you!
I built a Grendel with the BSF 20 innh barrel. It's beutiful with the sidecharger rockwood upper.
NICE
I love both rounds
YES, that is what I am talking about. BOTH are great, just different and yet similar and each has it place/role/use. Thanks Phillip.
Nice video. I got a .300 AAC Black out upper for my grandson to hunt. I have recently ordered a 6.5 Grendel upper for an upgrade for him in the future. Mainly because with the adjustable stock it can be adjusted for his small size for him to be able to get target acquisition. The .300 AAC is just a short range cartridge and my tree stand sees out to about 200 yds. where the 6.5 Grendel would be a good point blank cartridge for him with little recoil. He just turned 10 and has already harvested 3 deer. Needless to say I want to give him an opportunity to do well so he will stay in the sport of hunting and enjoy it. I went with a 24 inch barrel to maximize the velocity for longer point blank range. Weight doesn't matter shooting from a stand with a rest.
Hey Garry. My son took his first deer at 6 with my 6.5. Its a great rd, you will love it!
No argument with your findings, I agree. I do think a better comparison would be the 6.5 Grendel Hornady 123 gr SST with a BC of 0.510 and muzzle velocity around 2500 fps against the 308 Hornady 178 gr ELD-M with a BC of 0.515 and a muzzle velocity around 2500 fps. After all the BC and velocity of a bullet are really what you are looking at when you talk about velocity and energy at distance. Those two bullets would be a closer apples to apples comparison.
Nice Video.
I think you may be mislead on the notion that anything over 1,000 foot lbs won't help if the bullet passes through.
The amount of mass a bullet passes through will determine the percent of energy distributed to the animal. Most modern hunting bullets fully expand on the first two inches and can dump almost all of its energy by going through 23 inches of animal.
You bring up a good point. "Cavitation" is very important which comes from speed, even if the bullet passes clean through. My point is when using smaller and even faster rounds, you will get better results if the bullet does not pass clean through. Example the 147 gr HP 9 mm round is devastating compared to the 115 gr FMJ, which many have had issues with "stopping" power because it passes clean through. A lot of the "cheaper" hunting ammo that a lot of folks use, does not expand very quickly and goes through leaving a small exit hole. That is "wasted" energy. Don't know if this helps or makes my point any clearer but I do see your point and agree to an extent. Would not want to get hit with a 300 win mag or 50 BFG even with FMJ for the very thing you mention. Thanks for the feedback, good point.
Think about this..if you drive a dump truck through a wall going 55mph and you drive a corvette through the same wall going 130mph which one will do the most damage
.308 has more insurance with a 180 grain bullet for larger game like black bear, elk, moose, zebra, wild beast... Nosle LR 168 grain .308 bullet still retains 1000f/lbs at 800 yard which is even better than 6.5 Creedmoor 140 grain 1000f/lbs of energy at 600 yard. I have ar-15 Grendel in 16" and 20" and I love their compact size and light weight, and all you need is a complete upper (with BCG) and 6.5 Grendel magazine if you already have an ar15 5.56. You are correct that each has its own applications.
Exactly, you nailed it, my point exactly.
Came here tryin to see if I could use a 308 scope with BDC for a 6.5 Grendel. Glad to see an answer. Thnx.
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to make this video. You did a great job. Also I'm sorry so many people don't understand what you were trying to portray. I totally understood.
THANKS brother, "enough" people get it :) .....Like you, which all I was wanting to do.
You can't get PPU because it was all recalled and they are not making it anymore. Overpressure issues made it dangerous.
I know, really hoping they try again or someone else picks it up so we can get it cheap again.
Factory loads are about to 130, but it can shoot up to 144gr handloads. Good Video. I was looking at the new Valkyrie to 100gr but it is more of a paper puncher. The 22 Nosler at 85gr is just ahead of the 223 . The Grendel is nice for shooting accurate and good for deer size game and a smaller platform than the 243 at 115grains. So a 223, 6.5 Grendel, and 308 fills all my shooting needs. I don't have a Grendel, but that would make my shooting needs complete and great on a windy day. Great Video! Thanks!
I believe you would need to compare similar bullet's with approximately the same weights if you want to run a fair comparison. With a 24" barrel the .308 delivers with a 125 gr (8 g) Spitzer bullet; 3,100 ft/s (940 m/s) 2,668 ft⋅lbf (3,617 J) . The proven long track record and popularity of the .308 Winchester cartridge around the world from Europe to the plains of Africa is undeniable. Something the 6.5 Grendel will never match, especially against heavier game within 500 yards. However, the shorter, lighter, AR-15 platform you can use with the Grendel gives an advantage as a fine varmint and deer size game cartridge in an AR-15 platform.
I hear the Grendel is just fine for Elk.
With the right bullets, as long as the terminal velocity is in the right range, what cartridge is used is academic. How's that go? Oh, yeah...elk can't read headstamps.
Not to be a critic but your right in a sense when it comes to ft lbs and if it over penetrates then there is wasted energy. In a way I also disagree for the simple fact there are now solid copper projectiles in which dump all of there energy on the target.
I use a Nosler 140 RDF 2300 FPS in my 20" Sanders Armory match barrel This changes everything.
so the Grendal is like the .308's little brother!
great for a ar15 platform. My ar10 M&P10 sport II .308 weighs in around 7.5 pounds though.
This was a great comparison. Since I already have an Ar10 variant in 308 (and a few Ar15s) I think I'll stick with handloading various 308 bullets and loads. Maybe buy myself the most comfortable sling I can find
I love the diy brass catcher 🤠
Have a neck issue and starting to look for an alternative to my -06 for elk. Glad I came across your video.
@Ivan Karamazov have zero interest in a 6.5Creed. Had a .260 and was not impressed. But, in your opinion why? Let me tell you where I'm trying to get to. I want to use a skeletonized AR15 platform to build a light weight, lower recoil rifle for packing around the mountains elk hunting.
The new 6mmARC looks interesting too because it is basicly a .243 in an AR15. I know quite a few old elk hunters who are successful every year with a .243....it's a bit light in my mind but with proper shot placement... The 6.5 adds some more thump to overcome the need to be as precise when the situation isn't petfect.
@Ivan Karamazov Interesting thoughts. I'll check out the channel. Thank you.
I have a Howa mountain rifle in .300WSM and 7mm-08 as well as a room full of other rifles and firearms. But my go to elk rifle for the last 20+years has been my Remingtom 700bdl in .30-06 I got as a gift for graduating HS. And yes I reload.
For me the sport and ethics of hunting keep me from taking shots on elk past 450yards. The majority of my kills have been within 250yards over the years. I've put 31 in the freezer and over 200 whitetail and mule deer there as well. Am I capable and have I made shots on game past 1000yards, yes...but that's not the point of the new elk rifle I'm wanting to build. I broke a couple vertebra in my neck and messed up my back in a car accident before last season's trips and had to sit out with my new lever action browning .325WSM.
I'm not willing to give up hunting or putting meat on the table for my family but I need to be smart about it now hence an AR15 based elk rifle build. Do you have a recommendation for that platform?
@Ivan KaramazovI'm sorry to hear about your knee. I can totally understand you desire to lengthen your range. Sounds like both of us need to look into hunting from mules.
I love my BLR. It is fast, light, and points like a dream. I went with a sledgehammer heavy caliber but one in .300WSM would be a great elk rifle that offers a good balance of weight to power for you to look at. If you like the creedmoore, look at the LongRanger by Marlin. That platform is nice as well. I'm surprised I don't see more hunters going to field with BLRs and LongRangers because of all the benefits they offer.
Be safe and good hunting out there, sir.
@@RenaissanceThinking what game did you take at a 1000 yard's ? And what caliber ?
163yrds on your first deer WOW excellent lil hunter. congratulations.
Thanks for the video. Good info. I have most platforms, and I personally think the 300 Blackout is the best all around. 308 is fun to shoot, and the .223 is almost boring now days.
LOL, I NEVER get tire of the 5.56. 300 AAC is fun but was to expensive for me to shoot in volume like I do. Thanks for the feedback Sir.
300 blackout has less energy than a ak 47 can't see the use for one
@@norrisdillahuntjr4570 if you’re looking to hunt with it then you’re absolutely right it doesn’t make any sense when the 7.62 trumps it and the Ammo is less than half the cost but the main reason it still holds a place is the ability to suppress
6.5 and other ar15 compatible rounds are for folks who hunt east of the Rockies. 308 is perfect for elk, mule deer pronghorn and predator shooting here in the Rockies especially with the range of different bullet weights. This video is on point considering the majority of the views here are east of the Rockies. While myself and other I know wouldn't use the 6.5 grendel here, plenty of my friends back east would. Also for big game out here we go by the rule of 1500 ft/lbs of energy minimum. Depending on the bullet, that's a 400 yard hunting round
I think you might be shocked to actually see in person what the 6.5 grendel can do at longer ranges on big game.
Give it a try, you just might change your mind
when you weigh them, weigh them with the amount of ammo you would be carrying. that is the tell of the tale. you are lugging the ammo weapon and your gear. to get the efficiency and comparable stopping power it is a dream come true
PPU and Wolfgold Match are no longer available for the 6.5 That really sucks and makes it more expensive to shoot.
Beyond Seclusion Why did they discontinue those brands?
Had something to do with the cases I believe. Have been shooting them for YEARS, never had a problem.
Beyond Seclusion Yeah that sucks now there are only 3 options for the 6.5G. That kinda sucks.
VERY much so!
Beyond Seclusion just need to get enough of the public interested so they will buy it up more. This will cause companies to produce more of it or get into it in the first place.
Wish those prices still were!
RIGHT?
So I have a 308, 7.62x39 and 5.56.. So 6.5 grendel will be next?!
I really do think the 6.5 G is the best "hunting" rd you can get for the AR15 platform.
Was it?
Energy doesn’t have anything to do with penetration. Bullet design, sectional density, velocity l, and expansion determine penetration
.308 for Elk and Mule Deer, 6.5 Grendel for Whitetail and smaller game.
Thank you! AMEN You should read through the comments :(
A teenage girl took a big bull elk at around 490yds with the 6.5 grendel and it had no problems getting it done
If you really get into it these old hunters get into the BC and all different types of things and say for some reason the 6.5 just seems to kill better and penetrate deeper. Idk yet but I can’t wait to find out on my own
id rather get a 243w. but im probaly biased since i allready got one :D
.30-06. Id also a ".308"... The russians really love .30 caliber rounds for rifles and handguns.
What about the size and weight differences between the two's ammo itself? 6.5 more compact, weight seems less, easier to carry, so you can carry more rounds.
Better comparison would be 308 vs 6.5 creedmore. Something that is based off the same brass.
Thanks for the comparison. I'm moving to Wyoming and I can see a lot farther than I can in Chicago. Trying to decide what upper to assemble and the choices are legion😊
Nice explanation between the two. I'm a smaller guy so I chose a 300 blackout and love it! If I ever get the chance to shoot big game then I would look at acquiring a .308.
Thanks, feedback on this one is not always so "positive".
As a 22 year Wyoming resident, I can tell you. I've seen LOTS of Elk taken with a 243 100 grain SP cartridge.
I am sure a 123 grain Grendel cartridge would do a good job on them too.
Old W. German 308 ammo can be had for $0.40 /RD in boxes of 500 or 1000. Can't remember which. Brass & boxer primed too.
I only shoot 6.5 Grendel and .50 Beowulf.
The wolf gold is made by PPU for 6.5
Looks like it could be a good elk round out to ~300 yards. My AR-10 is 2 pounds heavier than my AR-15, but I'd love to carry 2 pounds less.
In Europe, their main Elk and Moose gun is the 6.5x55 Swede. It is a much larger case and does have a bit heavier bullet but ballistically just about the same as the 6.5 G. Now with that said, if I did a video on doing that here in the US, I can only imagine the comments. If I paid a lot of money to go Elk hunting, I would have to say it would not be my first choice. Could it get the job done, you bet. If you do and you get one, be sure to let us know!! We both know, "shot placement" is EVERYTHING. You will not have much room for error with this.
AR10 platform is so much heavier it's not even close. the 6.5 Grendel has so much performance for the size and recoil levels it's way more efficient, the biggest drawback is the ammo costs more unless you reload your own.
Good points, it does suck walking distance with my AR10.
I’m torn between a ar10 308 and a 6.5 grendel next. Great info and comparison. Still undecided though...
For me, when its a hard decision and they both are great. I consider how much I want to "target" practice and "play". If its a lot, and not so much hunting, I go with the cost of ammo. If you don't shoot that much and its more hunting, then it depends on if you already have a AR15 lower and is recoil a factor (like if you have kids, wife, etc.) that would want to shoot it. Hope that helps.
*I must say to segue ...I'm NOT a VETERAN, I had an exp doing a not super sexy job in priv security/tactically driven IC work (trunk monkey, basically) JUST so I could be an author later & knew in my hometown of San Diego (North County area) sev longtime family friends who'd joined some fmr frogs from my high school, did PSD stuff in Baja on occasion, and can say that the GRENDEL is what should be our new NATO round they replace the 5.56 NATO with...I know plenty of USASOC types who agree.*
*So, ARDEC's working on a new 6.8"GP"? If their terminals at reg dist are THAT brutal, then OK. But NO ONE w/reg 16" ARs (i.e those like me, who like 14.5") wants to try & squeeze the reach/thump/etc of 6.5 Creedmoors offer so...WHY start hyping it over .308s unless u can't shoot for sh!t.. I can say, w/my own eyes, a KAC custom ACTUALLY real ISR variant of the newer SR 25 as a "battle carbine"w/ folding stock,& just a 4x optic friggin DROP threats past 750m EASILY.. Plus, the 7.62 NATO/.308,or 5.56 77gr Black Hills do much more than folks claim. Ask fmr SOF dudes!!*
*TO SUM IT UP? I luckily, ONLY because I had a generous dude around from Bragg's Aztec Sqdn who was an instructor at Range 39 or something, & luckily I shot that SR 25 ISR custom little compact 7.62 & know that 6.5 Grendel is the ONLY worthy round to take the .223/5.56 spot at NATO. It's gonna be a logistical nightmare. So the DoD had better use the Grendel, MAKE MORE of the 7.62s but shorter, as they still got reach, and unless the new 6.8 blows me socks off? Let's not waste more money than we are. Russia? Iran? These are the words the top tier fellas keep saying are otw to sucker punchin' one of our low vis OPs somewhere SOON. We don't have time. Make a choice. No fielding ANYTHING in 2020!! This should be otw out the door by Spring*
I love the 6.5 The only thing I have heard or know of that could be an issue (I am sure would be easily fixed) is some feeding issues with the mags sometimes at high rates. I agree, its a GREAT round! I love my 308, but its heavy to carry around for any length of time. The 6.5 is no different than carrying around my 5.56.
need to compare bullets closer in weight because 123 compared to 165 is a big difference . The 308 is going to start alot faster and is going to be higher energy out farther .
I love my LR-308 is my best with my 243 win top on it just at 3800 fps with hand packing rounds.
A 308 shits on the 6.5 grendel unless your target shooting at 600 yrds no comparison in the energy of the 308, hunting 308 all day long
Grendel is neat for AR/AK platform, but big compromises are made for the sake of magazine feeding. A Grendel can reach out there, but it delivers a slap on the cheek at distance compared to other calibers not to mention pretty steep drop. Honestly 308 and maybe Creedmoor is the best choice for these rifles for range, flat shooting and power on target. Abandon the limitation of AR platform and embrace the bolt action, which opens the door to way more interesting and capable calibers. I think it's misleading to portray Grendel as a capable distance/hunting round. It's not. IMO.
Clearly you’ve never used a 6.5 Grendel.
It’s hard to see any advantages, for the majority of people, to a bolt gun over the AR15 when you think about how much more you can do with the AR15 platform itself, and knowing that the 6.5 Grendel has the balls to take down any North American game animal, far outside the range most hunters are capable of making.
It just seems, to me personally, that unless you’re a sharp shooter, even then the AR15 would give it a run for its money, the ridiculously powerful giant cartridge bolt gun is getting outshined all the way around but a whole lot of people just love a bolt action and there’s nothing wrong with that I still think they are awesome guns and would like to have a lot more of them but kids coming up playing video games just want that “cool looking” AR15