When people wonder why Judo or BJJ feels incomplete. It’s because it was meant to be part of a larger skill set of abilities - part of a Ryuha. This is a perfect example of this.
This is basically the best example we could ever get of how Ancient Jūjutsu was used in real combat. Even though it’s a reenactment, they’re literally doing realistic fighting and it’s pressure testing old school techniques. And those techniques are still used and effective today.
every human culture grapples, one can find a folk wrestling martial art in almost any nation. Its because it is always necessary if the weapon gap gets passed.
@@tatumergo3931 Yeah for sure. The best use for kicks in my opinion is swipes because that applies so universally and it leads to grappling. So set ups that end on swipes or takedowns from strikes are really good like the "Sakuraba" one that the MMA fighter Sakuraba used a lot, jumping low thrusting side kick into doable leg take down works very consistently. Sometimes you need a strike before to get into INTO grappling reach, those are the best imo.
Great Video. Thank You. As I have mentioned in some of your other videos this is why Judo Kata looks like a robot walk. It was originally intended to be wearing Samurai Armor. I have heard the contrary on one of your other podcast..... but I heard the fore from a very reliable source. Also another reason why the rule set of Judo is the way it is. Finish the fight as fast as possible. If you play a guard game or double leg blast your dead. You want to throw and stay in control and on top as best you can in order to pull the short sword for the death blow. People want to say the rule change was to stop Europeans from winning. No, its because the original focus was control your opponent's arms throw and stab. Judo was getting away from the throw and turning into something else. sitting in guard for long periods of time will get you killed. Also not leveraging a controlled pin or trying to escape will also get you killed. This is one of the main reasons the Japanese police chose judo. Take down and control. You don't always have to go for a choke or armbar. Chadi I love your passion and your continuous pursuit of the way. Arigato🙇♂
Thats why I say Judo is one of the best martial arts for the Police. The Police in Japan already train it, maybe more places around the world should learn from them.
This is exactly what I was looking for, I appreciate you putting this together. Closest thing I’ve seen to what jujutsu/judo would look like in its original form.
The foundational martial art skill set for European knights was also wrestled. If you look at the Medieval fighting manuals written and illustrated during the 1300-1500s you’ll see a LOT of very similar techniques ending up on the ground with one knight stabbing the other through the gaps in their armor.
Once again Chadi you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Thank so much for your mini documentary on old battlefield techniques of Jujitsu, and your lecture was both informative and enjoyable.
Right. Armor sucks to be mobile in. Even in today's military, without a weapon and tools, I'm still wearing 60lbs worth of gear between helmet, plates, kneepads, and boots. Add ammo, a weapon, a side arm, grenades, First Aid kit, and any number of smaller tools (knife, strap cutters, lights, optics, etc.) or a cleverly stashed ration/MRE, you are potentially walking around in 100lbs of extra weight, easily. Now imagine adopting a jitogai and shooting with all of that!
In the 1960s in Japan, I used to hear a story about two people performing Koshiki no Kata in full armor. The story goes that they were both hospitalized, with the uke being seriously injured from his armor when taking ukemi. May have only been a story, or real.
Hey Chadi, big fan. Have you done anything on Irish Collar and Elbow wrestling? It was like Irish Judo, very popular in the 17-20th centuries in Ireland and later the USA. By the 20th century it was mostly absorbed into catch wrestling. It differed from other sports in that grips on the jacket (grabbing the Collar and grabbing the Elbow, hence name and name of the tie in modern grappling) are established from the start, and letting go of these grips before a player hits the ground means you lose the bout. Theres a youtube channel trying to revive it called the Hero with a Thousand Holds, he is incredibly knowledgable about it.
Not quite ,Jujitsu is still Jujitsu{ I have just come back home from my two hour training session and will repeat on Wednesday} I have been learning for twelve years now and it is still very much in existence .
Most of these throws are documented in 18th Century England as well, except for the uki-otoshi. These particular trips have a very wide distribution and should probably be part of everyone's repertoire.
A great video and it all makes sense when you’ve trained in more than one Japanese originated martial art and I include the mighty Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in that. My Karate was Wado Ryu so this connection all makes sense to me i.e. the natural progression from striking with sword or extremities to clinch, takedown etc. I wonder however if that exists in other Karate styles.
I can't comment regarding the re-enactment group footage in the video where some of the contestants likely have some budo experience. However the old black and white footage (armoured grappling) of kata practise is 100% accurate, known as koryu & demonstrated by Monjin from the Yagyu Shingan-ryu Heiho, a grappling school which is over 400 years old. The Judo randori and shiai by the Judoka is also 100% accurate.
The main fail in movies and video games is the lack of judo throws in sword fighting depictions... even ghost of Tsushima failed to include a cool throw game but at least they had a few kicks in there. I'll bet more often than not a blade combat contest ended up in a grapple and finished on the ground with a carefully executed stab... this is the entire point of osaekomi as a traditional scoring metric, what a shame Judo forgot about the "ring out" and sword-fighting depictions in entertainment forgot about the Judo🤔😆
If you live in Sweden you can take a one year course in community college(fölkhögskola) where we train Yagyu shingan ryu, traditional jujutsu 5 days a week, we also train bjj in conjunction with this. The first clip you see is exactly of what we do. Our Sensei is a disciple of Headmaster Shimazu Kenji. Could you tell me where you got the first clip from ? It is really hard to find good videos about old jujutsu.
One thing they aren't showing is using one of their weapons to pin and lever the opponent. Also, this is why Aikido type throws are generally useless in "real fights", they work best when someone has a weapon and forward movement. This is because it is based on battlefield techniques that assumed someone would be rushing in and striking hard (to break through armor). I haven't trained in Aikido, but have pulled off several similar throws when this energy was coming my way.
Da un libro... Nei campi di battaglia, i soldati che erano muniti di armatura (samurai e non), nello scontrarsi a corta distanza, nel caos, sul terreno accidentato, avevano estrema difficoltà nell'usare le lame a loro disposizione, pertanto si affidavano a forme di combattimento che prevedevano la proiezione dell'avversario o il suo abile trascinamento al suolo, entrambe strategie poste in essere tramite tecniche alle quali si erano addestrati. Cadere al suolo insieme all'avversario doveva essere frequente (come si vede in Giappone in dimostrazioni di antiche battaglie alquanto realistiche - link battaglia). Credo che il randori al suolo sia stato creato dal maestro Jigoro Kano, traendo spunto da antichi scritti che contenevano riferimenti al combattimento al suolo di questo tipo. Addirittura, potrebbe essere venuto in contatto con maestri di ju jutsu che conoscevano tali tecniche anche se non formalizzate in kata. In Tenjinshin’yō ryū, c'è una tecnica chiamata O Goroshi, che nella sua fase intermedia, può essere considerata un inizio di yoko shiho gatame. In buona sostanza, è difficile pensare che le tecniche di katame waza realizzate in ne-waza (tecniche al suolo o da posizione coricata) del Judo siano scaturite dal nulla, per pura invenzione, ma piuttosto siano state adattate al vestiario del Judo ed inserite in metodi (hairi kata), questi ultimi creati dagli allievi del Judo e in continua trasformazione, non codificati per poter essere allenati in un contesto meno collaborativo di un kata (randori). Saremmo cioè di fronte, da un punto di vista tecnico, ad un'arte marziale che allena tecniche che risalgono a molti secoli or sono: da un periodo non precisato pre Edo, passando per il periodo Edo e per finire con il periodo Meji. Il repertorio del nage waza del Judo e quello del katame waza e soprattutto quello dell'atemi waza si sono sviluppati in periodi storici differenti e per motivi a loro volta differenti. In particolare, il Tenjinshin’yō ryū ritiene che l'atemi sia fondamentale in un combattimento, quasi imprescindibile, mentre Kitō ryū lo ritiene quasi inapplicabile e da molta importanza alle proiezioni. La prima scuola è nato nel periodo Edo, e fa riferimento al periodo nel quale è nato e si è sviluppato, dove i contesti del combattimento non prevedevano battaglie e di indossare un'armatura. Al contrario pur essendo nato nel periodo Edo, i contesti a cui fa riferimento la scuola di Kitō , sono proprio il campo di battaglia con indosso l'armatura (non si poteva sapere se non si sarebbe mai più combattuta una battaglia in armatura). Gli atemi sono molto efficienti in abiti leggeri, mentre le armature rendono altrettanto efficienti le proiezioni per scagliare l’avversario al suolo, soprattutto se si sfrutta il peso del proprio corpo e dell’armatura in un sutemi. Nonostante le proiezioni facessero riferimento al periodo pre Edo, non furono abbandonate nelle ryu di ju jutsu del periodo Edo, perché ritenute soddisfacenti nell'attacco e difesa anche in abiti leggeri, quindi anche in Tenjinshin’yō ryū troviamo il nage waza. Al maestro Jigoro Kano è attribuito, da qualche fonte, un’antipatia o un’avversione verso il ne waza, come se il suo sviluppo (addirittura, quindi il katame no kata) fosse avvenuto al di fuori della sua volontà. Non ho mai riscontrato in ciò che ho letto dei suoi scritti un’opinione di questo genere. Piuttosto, egli era contrario a tutti i comportamenti che tradivano il fine ultimo del randori, cioè lo shinken shoubu, pertanto era contrario ai trascinamenti al suolo, rimanendo appesi all’avversario (non era contrario al passaggio da katame a ne waza, ma lo considerava operabile solo da esperti) ed in generale alla strategia aprioristica di portare l’avversario al suolo, perché si era scarsi in piedi o si reputava che sarebbe stato più facile vincere in questo modo, sia in randori che in shiai. Diede anche una spiegazione logica al suo pensiero; infatti, pensava che un simile atteggiamento poteva essere produttivo di risultati in randori o in shiai, in quanto le regole non permettevano gli atemi e l’avversario era uno solo, ma avrebbe potuto avere effetti disastrosi e contrari al miglior impiego dell’energia, qualora si fosse stati in combattimento shinken shoubu (fine ultimo di randori e shiai). Inoltre, la posizione tachi-ai ed il nage waza che ne consegue, offriva a parer suo una maggior gamma di possibilità di movimento, tale da consentire di raggiungere qualità fisiche utili al combattimento che al suolo non era possibile ottenere.
Hello Chadi. O Soto Otoshi is to kill You must grab the throat and the person strikes with the back of the neck. You will see it in the kodokan Goshin Jitsu (otoshi is to nail) Best regards, friend. Thank you for your work
The actual Aikijujutsu is bad. But the real traditionnal jujutsu japanese is cool. With modernised for judo no gi and MMA, it can be very interesting 😊
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
When people wonder why Judo or BJJ feels incomplete. It’s because it was meant to be part of a larger skill set of abilities - part of a Ryuha. This is a perfect example of this.
It has nothing to do with bjj or judo,this is classical jjapanese jujitsu
@@scarred10 true but bjj and judo are these days more a sport then classic japanse jiu jitsu
@@dylan_krishna_777
今は日本ではブラジリアン柔術が急速に普及しています。
柔道より安全性が高く学びやすいからです。
日本の伝統的な柔術は廃れて、ブラジリアン柔術が普及している。
前田光世も驚くだろうな。
@@dylan_krishna_777 that's true s
@@塩ラーメン-j1y so what is your point??
This is basically the best example we could ever get of how Ancient Jūjutsu was used in real combat. Even though it’s a reenactment, they’re literally doing realistic fighting and it’s pressure testing old school techniques. And those techniques are still used and effective today.
every human culture grapples, one can find a folk wrestling martial art in almost any nation. Its because it is always necessary if the weapon gap gets passed.
@@tatumergo3931 Yeah for sure. The best use for kicks in my opinion is swipes because that applies so universally and it leads to grappling. So set ups that end on swipes or takedowns from strikes are really good like the "Sakuraba" one that the MMA fighter Sakuraba used a lot, jumping low thrusting side kick into doable leg take down works very consistently. Sometimes you need a strike before to get into INTO grappling reach, those are the best imo.
Great Video. Thank You. As I have mentioned in some of your other videos this is why Judo Kata looks like a robot walk. It was originally intended to be wearing Samurai Armor. I have heard the contrary on one of your other podcast..... but I heard the fore from a very reliable source. Also another reason why the rule set of Judo is the way it is. Finish the fight as fast as possible. If you play a guard game or double leg blast your dead. You want to throw and stay in control and on top as best you can in order to pull the short sword for the death blow. People want to say the rule change was to stop Europeans from winning. No, its because the original focus was control your opponent's arms throw and stab. Judo was getting away from the throw and turning into something else. sitting in guard for long periods of time will get you killed. Also not leveraging a controlled pin or trying to escape will also get you killed. This is one of the main reasons the Japanese police chose judo. Take down and control. You don't always have to go for a choke or armbar. Chadi I love your passion and your continuous pursuit of the way. Arigato🙇♂
We use a shitload of Judo in Armored Combat Sports, it's super effective on armored opponents.
Thats why I say Judo is one of the best martial arts for the Police. The Police in Japan already train it, maybe more places around the world should learn from them.
its the best martial art for police...always has been
This is exactly what I was looking for, I appreciate you putting this together. Closest thing I’ve seen to what jujutsu/judo would look like in its original form.
The foundational martial art skill set for European knights was also wrestled. If you look at the Medieval fighting manuals written and illustrated during the 1300-1500s you’ll see a LOT of very similar techniques ending up on the ground with one knight stabbing the other through the gaps in their armor.
Once again Chadi you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Thank so much for your mini documentary on old battlefield techniques of Jujitsu, and your lecture was both informative and enjoyable.
Thank you Fred
I like how they basically cover and “run into” there opponent to clinch rather than grip fighting or shooting.
Right. Armor sucks to be mobile in. Even in today's military, without a weapon and tools, I'm still wearing 60lbs worth of gear between helmet, plates, kneepads, and boots. Add ammo, a weapon, a side arm, grenades, First Aid kit, and any number of smaller tools (knife, strap cutters, lights, optics, etc.) or a cleverly stashed ration/MRE, you are potentially walking around in 100lbs of extra weight, easily. Now imagine adopting a jitogai and shooting with all of that!
And this is how jujitsu is used in battle! Katas are for drilling the techniques but it never looks beautiful in real time. 👏
So I fight in buhurt and judo throws work super well in European armor too. I’m planning on getting samurai armor soon to see how it changes grappling
Best posting, Chadi
Inoue's move is definitely Uki-Otoshi.
In the 1960s in Japan, I used to hear a story about two people performing Koshiki no Kata in full armor. The story goes that they were both hospitalized, with the uke being seriously injured from his armor when taking ukemi. May have only been a story, or real.
Excellent video, Thanks very much!
Very good Waza !
That looks so fun
It is
Hey Chadi, big fan. Have you done anything on Irish Collar and Elbow wrestling? It was like Irish Judo, very popular in the 17-20th centuries in Ireland and later the USA. By the 20th century it was mostly absorbed into catch wrestling. It differed from other sports in that grips on the jacket (grabbing the Collar and grabbing the Elbow, hence name and name of the tie in modern grappling) are established from the start, and letting go of these grips before a player hits the ground means you lose the bout. Theres a youtube channel trying to revive it called the Hero with a Thousand Holds, he is incredibly knowledgable about it.
ruclips.net/video/rUpdZPSunhc/видео.html
@@Chadi thank you Chad-i
Samurai's grappling is kumiuchi. Sumo became kumiuchi, kumiuchi became jiu-jitsu, and jiu-jitsu became judo.
Not quite ,Jujitsu is still Jujitsu{ I have just come back home from my two hour training session and will repeat on Wednesday} I have been learning for twelve years now and it is still very much in existence .
You really should read Donn Draeger's work, if you haven't, Chadi.
Thanks for showing this
Most of these throws are documented in 18th Century England as well, except for the uki-otoshi. These particular trips have a very wide distribution and should probably be part of everyone's repertoire.
A great video and it all makes sense when you’ve trained in more than one Japanese originated martial art and I include the mighty Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in that. My Karate was Wado Ryu so this connection all makes sense to me i.e. the natural progression from striking with sword or extremities to clinch, takedown etc. I wonder however if that exists in other Karate styles.
This is the Mondo Ryu ancient battle field fighting tradition
I can't comment regarding the re-enactment group footage in the video where some of the contestants likely have some budo experience.
However the old black and white footage (armoured grappling) of kata practise is 100% accurate, known as koryu & demonstrated by Monjin from the Yagyu Shingan-ryu Heiho, a grappling school which is over 400 years old. The Judo randori and shiai by the Judoka is also 100% accurate.
Most interesting! 👌
The main fail in movies and video games is the lack of judo throws in sword fighting depictions... even ghost of Tsushima failed to include a cool throw game but at least they had a few kicks in there. I'll bet more often than not a blade combat contest ended up in a grapple and finished on the ground with a carefully executed stab... this is the entire point of osaekomi as a traditional scoring metric, what a shame Judo forgot about the "ring out" and sword-fighting depictions in entertainment forgot about the Judo🤔😆
Love it 🥋💪🏽👺
There is a school in bujinkan (kukishinden ryu) which covers grappling in armor.
Good video, would you consider doing a video on catch wrestling if you haven't already?
I have many , the throws of catch wrestling etc
If you live in Sweden you can take a one year course in community college(fölkhögskola) where we train Yagyu shingan ryu, traditional jujutsu 5 days a week, we also train bjj in conjunction with this. The first clip you see is exactly of what we do. Our Sensei is a disciple of Headmaster Shimazu Kenji.
Could you tell me where you got the first clip from ? It is really hard to find good videos about old jujutsu.
That was O Soto Gake.
One thing they aren't showing is using one of their weapons to pin and lever the opponent. Also, this is why Aikido type throws are generally useless in "real fights", they work best when someone has a weapon and forward movement. This is because it is based on battlefield techniques that assumed someone would be rushing in and striking hard (to break through armor). I haven't trained in Aikido, but have pulled off several similar throws when this energy was coming my way.
Da un libro...
Nei campi di battaglia, i soldati che erano muniti di armatura (samurai e non), nello scontrarsi a corta distanza, nel caos, sul terreno accidentato, avevano estrema difficoltà nell'usare le lame a loro disposizione, pertanto si affidavano a forme di combattimento che prevedevano la proiezione dell'avversario o il suo abile trascinamento al suolo, entrambe strategie poste in essere tramite tecniche alle quali si erano addestrati.
Cadere al suolo insieme all'avversario doveva essere frequente (come si vede in Giappone in dimostrazioni di antiche battaglie alquanto realistiche - link battaglia).
Credo che il randori al suolo sia stato creato dal maestro Jigoro Kano, traendo spunto da antichi scritti che contenevano riferimenti al combattimento al suolo di questo tipo.
Addirittura, potrebbe essere venuto in contatto con maestri di ju jutsu che conoscevano tali tecniche anche se non formalizzate in kata.
In Tenjinshin’yō ryū, c'è una tecnica chiamata O Goroshi, che nella sua fase intermedia, può essere considerata un inizio di yoko shiho gatame.
In buona sostanza, è difficile pensare che le tecniche di katame waza realizzate in ne-waza (tecniche al suolo o da posizione coricata) del Judo siano scaturite dal nulla, per pura invenzione, ma piuttosto siano state adattate al vestiario del Judo ed inserite in metodi (hairi kata), questi ultimi creati dagli allievi del Judo e in continua trasformazione, non codificati per poter essere allenati in un contesto meno collaborativo di un kata (randori).
Saremmo cioè di fronte, da un punto di vista tecnico, ad un'arte marziale che allena tecniche che risalgono a molti secoli or sono: da un periodo non precisato pre Edo, passando per il periodo Edo e per finire con il periodo Meji.
Il repertorio del nage waza del Judo e quello del katame waza e soprattutto quello dell'atemi waza si sono sviluppati in periodi storici differenti e per motivi a loro volta differenti.
In particolare, il Tenjinshin’yō ryū ritiene che l'atemi sia fondamentale in un combattimento, quasi imprescindibile, mentre Kitō ryū lo ritiene quasi inapplicabile e da molta importanza alle proiezioni.
La prima scuola è nato nel periodo Edo, e fa riferimento al periodo nel quale è nato e si è sviluppato, dove i contesti del combattimento non prevedevano battaglie e di indossare un'armatura.
Al contrario pur essendo nato nel periodo Edo, i contesti a cui fa riferimento la scuola di Kitō , sono proprio il campo di battaglia con indosso l'armatura (non si poteva sapere se non si sarebbe mai più combattuta una battaglia in armatura).
Gli atemi sono molto efficienti in abiti leggeri, mentre le armature rendono altrettanto efficienti le proiezioni per scagliare l’avversario al suolo, soprattutto se si sfrutta il peso del proprio corpo e dell’armatura in un sutemi.
Nonostante le proiezioni facessero riferimento al periodo pre Edo, non furono abbandonate nelle ryu di ju jutsu del periodo Edo, perché ritenute soddisfacenti nell'attacco e difesa anche in abiti leggeri, quindi anche in Tenjinshin’yō ryū troviamo il nage waza.
Al maestro Jigoro Kano è attribuito, da qualche fonte, un’antipatia o un’avversione verso il ne waza, come se il suo sviluppo (addirittura, quindi il katame no kata) fosse avvenuto al di fuori della sua volontà.
Non ho mai riscontrato in ciò che ho letto dei suoi scritti un’opinione di questo genere.
Piuttosto, egli era contrario a tutti i comportamenti che tradivano il fine ultimo del randori, cioè lo shinken shoubu, pertanto era contrario ai trascinamenti al suolo, rimanendo appesi all’avversario (non era contrario al passaggio da katame a ne waza, ma lo considerava operabile solo da esperti) ed in generale alla strategia aprioristica di portare l’avversario al suolo, perché si era scarsi in piedi o si reputava che sarebbe stato più facile vincere in questo modo, sia in randori che in shiai.
Diede anche una spiegazione logica al suo pensiero; infatti, pensava che un simile atteggiamento poteva essere produttivo di risultati in randori o in shiai, in quanto le regole non permettevano gli atemi e l’avversario era uno solo, ma avrebbe potuto avere effetti disastrosi e contrari al miglior impiego dell’energia, qualora si fosse stati in combattimento shinken shoubu (fine ultimo di randori e shiai).
Inoltre, la posizione tachi-ai ed il nage waza che ne consegue, offriva a parer suo una maggior gamma di possibilità di movimento, tale da consentire di raggiungere qualità fisiche utili al combattimento che al suolo non era possibile ottenere.
I think that that bw footage is Yagyu Shinkage ryu or Shingan ryu
source of the training yoroi in these events? Great gear.
So Japanese warriors like Samurais used to fight with Jujutsu, right ?
(Also did they use strikes and kicks ?)
Osto garai.
Hello Chadi. O Soto Otoshi is to kill You must grab the throat and the person strikes with the back of the neck. You will see it in the kodokan Goshin Jitsu (otoshi is to nail) Best regards, friend. Thank you for your work
The actual Aikijujutsu is bad.
But the real traditionnal jujutsu japanese is cool.
With modernised for judo no gi and MMA, it can be very interesting 😊