If Jenna didn’t disclose the reason she was let go then she probably doesn’t want it in the public. I think Matt is right to say it’s her buisness & her dirty laundry that he doesn’t feel right to tell. If I was fired I wouldn’t want a wave of people talking about it & harassing the ex boss
I fully agree with Matt. The issue with Jenna is her video was all "I don't even know why I was let go! UwU" She should have said "I'm human, I got fired and am growing and learning from it." I'm in the age where I'm starting to be responsible for hiring and firing stuff and I'd interview the person who can say that. If I was interviewing the most amazing candidate, I wouldn't give them the job on the basis of seeing a video like that one or hearing that she got hate sent to her old boss
As a tattoo artist that is currently mentoring an apprentice, i couldn’t believe how nonexistent her art was on her page. Let alone everything else! I worked a convention over the summer that her and Matt were both at and again. No art on her end was present. It’s one thing to not have physical tattoos on your own body. Right? Your own physical body is autonomous and while I wouldn’t get tattooed by someone with no tattoos, it’s her choice. But the whole point of being a tattoo artist is to put art on other peoples bodies ! It’s about selling your art ! If there’s not even an ability to put together a basic image, there’s no tattoo. There’s no tattooing . There’s no love of tattooing . So yeah. I call bs on all of it.
As a current apprentice, that was always surprising to me. Especially given that she mentions wanting to get into realism in the video and being "classically trained", the one flash drop I just saw on her page (that I had to scroll down very far for) is...a very far cry from that.
During the whole video I kept wondering "and so can we see her art?". Such a weird story, she clearly doesn't give a crap about tattooing and just wants to be seen as a "cool alt" girl
I also noticed in every video discussing her most don't show her artwork because she.... Simply doesn't post a whole lot of it. If her tiktok page was about other stuff BESIDES being an apprentice that would be one thing as I get not wanting to talk about and show your art all the time if your page is about other stuff. But she's an artist who apparently loves tattooing and... Doesn't show her designs or work. Doesn't talk about practicing with transfers or learning how the gun works. What's the point of running a page dedicated to being a tattoo artist if you don't talk about or show any of the tattooing or artistry? It seems like she just likes the gimmick of being a hyper-feminine girl in the tattooing scene and doing cute little memes in a tattoo shop. Which is not the point of being a tattoo apprentice.
Yeah, especially since she mentioned that she'd gone to school and gotten a degree in fine arts. I took studio art as a minor and one thing that all these schools will push you to do and require of you is to keep a portfolio, and these days that means an online one that can be easily accessed by anyone wanting to see it. Before anything else, that portfolio is your resume, so her having a very active social media presence that doesn't really include that is odd. And like a student portfolio for school purposes, a portfolio of your work as an apprentice, especially in a format that would provide a comprehensive timeline of your improvements in an apprenticeship would be SUBSTANTIAL for getting a job after (or , in this case, a new apprenticeship)
After reading this comment, I had to search for her art. It's definitely a starting point, but it's extremely mediocre for a tattooist and for someone to hype up going to art school for it.
Hi Lauren! Tattoo artist here, I would highly recommend checking out videos about apprenticeships by Lynn Loheide, while going unpaid is an 'industry standard' it absolutely should not be. Most apprenticeships are actually illegal under the Fitzgerald Act in the US, and unpaid free labor for the shop (not the learning, like cleaning, social media) is considered wage theft and several court cases have routinely sided with the apprentice. I love your content and know that I am in the US and your perspective is the UK, but unpaid apprenticeships are what help perpetuate a lot of abuse in the industry and should absolutely change for the better! Industry standard doesn't mean that it is how it should be 💖
I would agree with you 100% in most circumstances. If you already went to school for something, know what you're doing, but are required to do x amount of time doing an internship and are literally just doing the job (White house intern for example) you should ABSOLUTELY get paid. This is not the case with a tattoo internship, however. The artist is literally spending their time and energy teaching you a craft, they should receive some type of compensation in return. Expecting them to do work for you (educating you in this case) is exploitative to the artist. Why would an artist ever take on an apprentice in that scenario? Just out of the kindness of their hearts? I don't think sweeping some floors is asking for too much, it's an even exchange. Would you expect a teacher to pay you for going to a trade school? Unhinged.
@BasedWop The compensation is a competent employee who helps bring your business money. If you're only bringing on an apprentice because you want free labor then you shouldn't be bringing on an apprentice. Also they aren't paying them out of the kindness of their hearts, it's literally the law.
@@stephaniecutting9223 lol of course not, they're paying to go to the school why would they have to 🤣 I'm seeing some awful arguments here and the fact that four people liked your comment is extremely concerning. Again, these things are not alike and in fact they're the mirror opposites of each other. An accurate comparison would be if the apprentice was paying the tattoo artist for an education. In that case no, they should not be required to sweep the floors and if they were it would be exploitative. If the tattoo artist had to pay the apprentice so the artist could spend valuable time teaching the student so that the student can then go on to make money off of what they were taught why would anyone ever volunteer themselves for that? Were they sentenced to do community service or something? Why do you consider it ok for an artist to be exploited for their labor but not a student? NOBODY should be exploited for their labor, the artists are workers too. In this arrangement the apprentice receives an education and a future career path, the artist gets his floors swept and toilets cleaned. Even exchange. Educating you is not a privilege, get over yourself. Don't want to sweep floors? Fine, pay me instead. Otherwise you can kick rocks. The apprentice needs the artist, the artist does not need the apprentice. He could be tattooing someone and getting payed instead of serving you because you think you're too good to do manual labor.
@@gray7699an apprentice is, by definition, NOT competent. An apprentice doesn't bring you business, they take up your time, get in your way and do shitty tattoos that people associate with your shop for the first several months until they get good. An apprentice doesn't have any requirement to stay once they are fully trained, and will often leave to go to a shop that doesn't take apprenticeships once they are released from the apprenticeship. An apprentice is a liability, not an asset, which is why a lot of shops/artists won't take them on at all.
If she has an art degree, the smart idea would have been maybe making art prints and selling them instead of straight up asking people for money. She didn't even try 🤦
She claims she started getting classically trained at 7. Methinks gurl went to community College or to a really expensive school or she'd tell us what her training is.
@@dismurrart6648Agreed. When I was at Uni I knew a few people studying at the Fine Arts College and they would have stated where they obtained their qualifications as artists. By the look of things Jenna doesn't have the "classical training" she claimed but was likely simply occasionally drawing and sculpting in her high school art class like any normal student. She doesn't come across as being passionate about art but instead as being wrapped up in herself and social media.
@Adara007 that's something I think about often. To be a traditional artist, you have to be passionate about art. To be good at social media, you have to be good at marketing, filming, and editing. That is what it is but there are far more amazing artists who just significantly lack in one or more categories that we just don't know. The fact she said that line about classically trained since I was 7 told me she doesn't really know or do art that much so she doesn't understand how weird that sounds.
Im not trying to be an asshole, but she did a sketchbook tour on her page and all of the designs were rough af. Like clip art looking things. I get that sketchbooks dont have fully finished drawings but they didnt even look like sketches from someone that is "classically trained".
I went to art school with people like this. After a while, our teacher admitted to not providing a lot of constructive feedback to those students because they couldn’t handle the fact that they had a lot of room to improve. After looking at her portfolio, I’m confident that she hasn’t received a lot of professional feedback.
Yeah I was very put off by her videos while she was an apprentice. I can’t imagine anyone in the shop wasn’t annoyed by her, it’s no wonder she was kicked out
@@cypressoaksI don't think the way someone presents on social media necessarily indicates how they act in real life. Just because she acted cutsey and naive in tiktoks doesn't mean she actually acted that way with others in the shop.
He pays them: he does not charge them for the apprenticeship. That's in the video: in order to learn, you either pay or work. And one "charitable" gesture (that's actually a way to promote himself, so the money he loses on that tattoo is the same thing as paying for an ad campaign) does not bind someone to be as charitable to everyone else in the world. @@dearrationals
I think the comparison between tattoo apprentices having no tattoos and a surgeon having never had surgery is kind of a false equivalency. A better comparison would maybe be that it's like someone who is training to become a sushi chef but has never had sushi.
@@Zectifini feel like the more important point here is that tattoos are wholly elective while surgery can be necessary. elective plastic surgery is a better equivalent to getting tattoos
The other thing I was thinking about it how during surgery, you’re not conscious anyway so you don’t really gain any knowledge by going under anyways and even if you were conscious, you wouldn’t get even a baseline understanding of how to do surgery yourself. Whereas getting a tattoo does teach you a lot about what it’s like to be an artist.
@@ZectifinSurgery is an art, maybe not in a "self expression" kind of way, but you absolutely need a creative mind to be good at it. That said, the analogy is kinda weak. Comparing it to a chef who hasn't tried the cuisine they cook is better....
She is scary good at manipulation, look at the way she spun her situation to get people to donate to her gofundme for her moving expenses because she literally just wanted free money. And I'm convinced she was just trying to get free money because with her big following on social media, she could have easily created a patreon with content behind a paywall to fund her moving expenses/apprenticeship fee.
??? How , ppl still have rent to pay lmao, she's said she has a higher learning in an American college and her tatto apprentice clearly said thos as free labor , so if your in dept and didn't get any money during their apprenticeship, istg yall be trying to make villains outa pll off social media we don't even know . This the same shi as saying the lady that got hit with a brick in the face and went to an american hospital and made a gofundme for her medical bils was scamming ppl . Most americans don't even have $400 in their savings let alone a college student.
@@iAmNothingness Especially white women. She had a wholesome only presence and made herself seem almost childlike so people came to her defense. I don't think she's like intentionally making herself the victim, but she's 100% trying to milk her audience. People who are probably broke as fuck.
@@iAmNothingness I don't think this is solely due to gender. I think it's more so because she created this sweet/innocent persona for herself on her social media and because a lot of people either consciously or unconsciously view tattoos/tattoo shops as being tough/rebellious it causes them to immediately assume she's the victim. It's the put on of the overly sweet/innocent persona that I see as the root level of manipulation because it primes people to immediately assume you're the victim in any situation. I've seen plenty of guys do the same thing by always acting like nothing upsets them and staying calm, but constantly talking about how everyone them is wrong or pushing the other person's buttons to get them to explode so that person looks like the irrational one.
As a former apprentice, college student and now working in the medical field - Comparing trade schools and colleges to an apprenticeship is wild like they are not comparable at all! 😭😭 college students don’t clean up the classroom or set up their professors PowerPoint presentation for the class. There is NO LABOR in going to school. Apprenticeships requires labor, lots of it! Taking our trash, managing social media, making appointments and answer phone calls. With nursing school, they do an Externship. It’s short term and they shadow the professionals they are tasked to work with. some of the time, they don’t have to complete tasks like a paid employee. Y’all need to stop throwing all these professions into the same pot when tryna excuse not paying your apprentices, cuz I promise you, they are not the same. The Fitzgerald Act in the USA exist for a reason
Tbf there are students that clean up a classroom and set up the professor's PowerPoint they're just called teaching assistants but they still get paid for their work
The difference is that the College/School gets paid per student (privately or with public funding) whilst a tattoo studio doesn’t get a dime for teaching an apprentice.
Sure, college students don’t clean classrooms or make teachers PowerPoint presentations, but they also are paying thousands of dollars for their education. In fact, a lot of students get campus jobs, so they ARE doing labor around the schools, and they still have student loans, just slightly smaller ones. And student teachers? Paying thousands of dollars to do everything a regular teacher does. I don’t know enough about the industry to know how long an apprenticeship is, and what the labor to learning ratios are, how long they’re in the shop, etc. And I believe that everyone is entitled to making a living. But an established tattoo artist losing out on income because they’re teaching an apprentice, and wanting to make up some of that income by having their apprentice help out around the shop seems reasonable to me. Would you prefer apprentices not do anything but learn, but have to pay to be an apprentice?
@@bob8mybobbob This is my thinking, too. In this video, it's mentioned multiple times that if an apprentice isn't paying for their apprenticeship that they're working for the shop in lieu of paying for their education. If someone wasn't paying for their trade school education or their university education and wasn't having their education paid for by a third party (family, scholarships, grants, etc), then wouldn't it be reasonable for them to trade some of their labor in return for their education?
One problem I have with unpaid apprenticeships is when they are not overseen by an outside body, there is nobody to ensure the safety of the apprentice or the quality of the teaching.
Saw her portfolio. Her little felt sculptures were fine, I believe. The rest, well...they don't seem very professional. It's crazy how someone that has that level of a portfolio could get an internship
@@halyjher realism is better than her cartoon style but the proportions are all slightly off and make them look odd. The cartoon style is very childish and reminiscent of a young high schoolers work. It reminds me of the art I was doing when I was 14
Her 3d stuff was by FAR her strongest work. And her stop motion animations using her 3d models had a lot of promise. Absolutely no idea why she decided to pursue tattooing when her creative talent lies very clearly in 3d and stop-motion animation.
she's one of those people I always felt bad about finding annoying - I think it was how much she used like baby/child sounds in her tiktoks to almost infantilise herself, idk, glad I have a valid reason to dislike her now haha
Your other reason is fine too tbh. Infantilizing women, them playing into it and just valuing baby like young qualities in adult women and only women is creepy and weird. Finding it off-putting is understandable.
You can tell by the Tiktoks that this woman messed around the shop all day and didn't actually do anything productive. Not surprising she was let go. It's the aesthetic of being a tattoo artist that she wants without the hard work.
Have to admit I've never been tattooed by someone who didn't have a lot of their own tattoos and I'm not sure it's something that would necessarily be a deal breaker if I liked the artist's work, but there is something to be said about a tattoo artist knowing what this incredibly unique type of pain and healing process feels like personally. It's a tough one for me but ultimately I'd be a bit skeptical/wary of getting a tattoo from an artist without any of their own ink.
For sure. When I was super nervous getting my first tattoo and the guy doing it calmly told me what to expect, I looked at his head/neck/arm tattoos and went, "Uh-huh yessir I'll take your word for it." lol. I listened to what he told me for aftercare, and my healing went fine. I'd never insist on someone doing something permanent to their body, but I agree, I'd be a bit skeptical. Especially since she made it her entire "brand" instead of showcasing any artwork...
I think for me the benefit of an artist with tattoos is that they have experience as tattooed person. Especially if you’re getting your first tattoo or a more visible placement a tattoo artist who can tell you their lived experience as a tattooed person in your area is a big help. I think an artist with no tattoos is a bit of a red flag for the same reason a painter with no art on their walls is a red flag, it’s odd and with how many tattoo artists exist, I’ll just choose a different one.
I would never get tattooed by someone who wasnt extensively tatted. I am aware some ppl dont have a skin type that can handle tats/piercings, but that would still be a dealbreaker.
I'd prefer one that was tattooed and if I was getting a tattoo in a particular place that'd have it's own issues like an ankle or rib or spine, then I'd hopefully want my tattoo artist to have experience getting tattooed there or somewhere similar so they have that first hand knowledge of "this spot will suck, warn them/give them a breather" and if there is something about that spot that makes it different healing it, they'd have that knowledge first hand rather than just the general things you tell someone about the healing process. I think a good comparison of it is I wouldn't take a workout plan from someone that doesn't go to the gym. Anyone can google how to do it and regurgitate it, but they don't have the personal experience doing it themselves to know how it should feel, what is actually effective for what reason, how much is too much/little, etc.
I'm just tired of everyone making a go fund me for literally everything. unless its like a medical crisis or you're about to be homeless, why should people who are also trying to make ends meet pay for you to do something? go get a job at mcdonalds and save up.
Also wouldn’t her tattoo artist boyfriend have access to a kit? Like as an apprentice she won’t be tattooing constantly and could use his. I don’t expect my wife to get a separate set of brushes and paints when we paint together.
I can actually understand why a tattoo artist might not have tattoos, but I also understand why people aren’t comfortable being tattooed by someone who doesn’t have any. There’s a ton of medical reasons that someone might have that makes getting a tattoo dangerous, or it’s possible they did tattoo themselves and didn’t use ink so all that’s left is just a scar, or maybe they do have tattoos and they’re just not in places where it’s able to be shown. There’s nothing wrong with having a preference for your artists, but as long as they’re hygienic and following safety protocols I don’t think it’s worth criticizing them.
Thank you for mentioning this:)I have medical issues that make rejection/infection extremely likely, but I always wanted a tattoo! Even just to fill in my eyebrows 😂😅 but I know I’d probably get really sick.
this is also where i stand. i think expecting artists to have tattoos is silly, but i also completely understand why an artist without them might have a harder time getting business
i don’t see why she doesn’t just try to find a social media managing job at an established shop that needs to hire a person just for that-she clearly just wants to be involved in the space. not that she’s the most highly requested employee at the moment…
Girl no, im sorry but most unpaid apprenticeships are in my opinion super unethical, and not very comparable to any other kind of school. Apprenticeships usually involve doing heaps of chores rather than actually learning to tattoo. Sure, theres something to learn in that too, but chores are 100% something that people should be getting paid for. Dont janitors get paid? Tattoo artists arent trained teachers, either. Its not like im funding an educational institution. Sorry this is something i feel very strongly about as an aspiring artist. I was about to give up on my dream because of this industry standard. If this is the standard, then why would i surround myself with people who believe wage theft is completely justified? Ive definitely changed my mind about people choosing skip their apprenticeship. Its just very outdated.
I completely agree , to add on as well. In every other trades industry, apprentices are payed industry minimum since it is a job even if you’re learning the profession along the way.
yeah, i completely agree! however, i do think there is something to be said for jenna demanding to be the exception for this rule being paid by her audience - especially right after the whole hawaii trip.
Thank you. Not enough people looking at this from a left-leaning perspective. Unpaid internships are unethical, and I also believe at least the first few years of college education or trade schools should be free or affordable instead of continuing with the predatory for-profit institutions we have now.
It seems... Very illegal to not pay apprentices. Yeah, I know "unpaid internships" are very common, but those are also illegal the vast majority of the time. For it to be legal to not pay someone for an internship, the experience has to be 100% for their benefit and they cannot provide labor that materially benefits the employer/that a paid employee would normally do. Cleaning the shop, ordering inventory, and managing the Instagram account are very obviously things that benefit the employer and are not solely for the benefit of the apprentice. Just because it's industry standard doesn't mean it's okay. Apprentices should be paid and, at least in the United States, it's illegal for them to not be. Edit: Saw some arguments in other comments about whether apprentices should or should not be paid. Regardless of "should", US law says that it's illegal for them to not be paid.
I get what you're saying, but cleaning the shop, managing inventory, and managing social media presence also gives someone good hands-on experience for running their own business. I know there must be a line somewhere, but on its face these all seem to have at least some valid educational value (except perhaps for cleaning the shop -- tattoo-specific hygienic cleaning, yes, scrubbing toilets, not so much).
@@MM-jf1meidk if you ever followed up and looked into this, but the law is that if your intern is providing the company with tangible benefit they must be paid. So her doing chores, ordering, social media should all be paid for as they are for the benefit of the business, not herself. If she was simply standing by and observing/asking questions/ using their tools to practice (not on clients) then she would not need to be paid.
Unpaid tattoo apprenticeship may have worked in the past when cost of living wasn't so high as it is now. Is this something you can take out a student loan for? When people go to college or trade school, they take out student loans to help with the cost. I mean, how can a person live in this economy on what a part time job pays? Plus a part time job that works around your schedule you have as a tattoo apprentice. I guess they can live with their parents if they're lucky to have that as an option but most people don't. It seems like you need to have a certain amount of privilege to be a tattoo artist anymore vs talent.
People got to remember, looks can be deceiving. Just because someone has a cute appearance and portrays themselves with a cute or innocent persona on social media, it speaks nothing on their true inner character. Most people think of "don't judge a book by its cover" for negative qualities but it also applies to not assuming positive qualities either. Too many people were quick to assume Jenna Grace was an amazing wholesome person just based on her cutesy looks and persona without knowing anything about her off-camera, like what people who've been around her in real life might know.
i’m of the belief that anyone trying SO hard to portray a certain image of purity is the exact opposite. jenna infantilizing herself to that degree screams red flags.
I get extremely put off by people like her… women that use this trope are usually vipers hiding their true nature and accountability for their actions. It’s so frustrating that so many people (specially men) fall for this facade.
I’m a black female tattoo artist with no tattoos. I don’t have any for quite a few reasons. I definitely received harsh feedback from just that fact alone. I care about safety, I care about my clients, I care about their experience, and I care about my work. All I want to do is strive to always get better and give my clients something to be proud of. It is what it is. You don’t have to like it but my clients do!
To be fair I dont think tattoo artists should judge you for Not being tattoed. Black Skin needs a Skilled tattoo artist that understands how to tattoo Darker Skin tones and its a Shame Not Many invest in inclusivity
I just have tattoos but I would not have a problem with getting tattooed by someone without tattoos. I find it kinda odd that people have such a problem with it tbh.
The last time I got tattooed, the artist didn't have any tattoos and is one of my favorite pieces. He also has only three years tattooing, and I'm pretty satisfied with everything
ooh what's your insta? and i agree i think the whole "you're not a valid artist if you don't have tattoos" argument is rooted in elitism which runs rampant in the tattoo community
Sorry if its too personal it’s no one’s business but yours. But why don’t you want any? Definitely don’t have to answer but I’m curious what someone’s reason might be. Cause you obviously like tattoos if that’s what you chose to do as a career.
In the US you are paid for learning a trade if you’re an apprentice. This is hidden by tattoo culture/the industry but they’re supposed to pay you. “Oh but I didn’t get paid” - I’m sorry you didn’t. That doesn’t change the law now. “Oh but they’re learning a skill” - they’re also asked to dedicate full time to it. “Why should we pay someone to learn” - because they do daily labor still like cleaning/stockkng/managing the front “Well their payment is in education” - this doesn’t put food on their table. “No one is paying their apprentices” - everyone breaking a law doesn’t make the law moot. 90% of drivers mowing down pedestrians doesn’t negate the fact it’s not supposed to happen. (This is an example this is not an actual statistic) “Oh but how do we expect them to pay” - if you can’t afford to pay someone you shouldn’t be taking them on. You’re not successful at this time as a businessman. Sorry. Not that Jenna is right. I don’t like her content, I wouldn’t get a tattoo from her, she’s done some ridiculous stuff and is shady as can be, but that doesn’t eliminate the above.
@@HORIZONNNN it’s a huge problem. Cosmetology school is not a form of apprenticeship and I see that used a lot. You aren’t a full time employee when going to school, you just have to complete a certain number of hours under your education program to be licensed but you aren’t asked to dedicate a full 40 hours a week. But physicians for example, get paid as full time residents. So do carpenter apprentices, electricians, and if you’re bypassing school to be a barber or cosmetologist by apprenticing at a salon. You’re not paid like a full time employee, but you are paid at least minimum wage. The US has a whole department dedicated to this. It’s not practiced because everyone just assumes it’s the norm but really that’s a law. If they’re alerted they can investigate and make you pay and then you face repercussions if you fire the apprentice which is a very rare time firing someone can be extremely suspicious.
@@song5361well, I'm from brazil and although our labor laws are not as fucked up as in the usa, there are some really messed up legislation about residency in the health field. I'm a psychologyst currently doing residency and we literally work 12 hours per day when the maximum allowed for regular workers is 8 hours. Internships here cannot surpass the amount of 4 hours a day, 5 days a week, and they receive just 400 reais (81 dollars, aproximately) at minimum. There are apprenticeship programs that were supposed to teach students how to master a sort of art or work but mostly companies jut use them to hire cheap labour and those apprentices merely do customer service. I guess even with the minimum rights guaranteed, bosses will always find a way to exploit ppl
Seriously the amount of ppl defending unpaid labor is… Not to mention, the industry is creating a culture where only people privileged enough to do unpaid labor can be educated. It’s really gross.
@@rosiepark9607it's funny because i think a lot of people in these spaces parroting the idea that shops shouldn't have to pay apprentices a living wage are probably the same crowd of e-"leftists" that claim to be socialists. so like... which is it? rules for thee but not for me??
A "junior artist" at that shop charging $250/hr is wild. Jenna charging anywhere near that is absolutely ridiculous! She's an apprentice, so first off she shouldn't be working on anything that would be a whole day with one client! Apprentices work with flash and simple and smaller pieces, they don't jump straight to full day sessions! Besides that, her pricing is absolutely insane. $250/hr is a rate for a top quality, skilled, experienced artist to charge, not an apprentice, or "junior artist" for that matter. It blows my mind that the shop is even allowing this.
Hey Lauren, thanks for covering the newest madness (again) 🙂 Sidebar: In Germany apprentices are getting paid for their apprenticeship in all the mentioned fields like cosmetology, healthcare and nursing, tattoo, and so on; its mostly not much, but they are paid. There also are apprenticeship-contracts in which all the details are witten down. There are also official chambers of crafts/commerce who overlook and regulate everything.
With the teeniest bit of internet sleuthing I was able to find her art portfolio site (really, it was a teeny amount. She links it herself on some of her social media) and while I don't want to sound like I'm putting her down, I find it honestly a bit surprising she was able to get an apprenticeship. Unless her art has improved since, the art I was able to find online by her is definitely in need of some improvement before it gets tattooed on anyone. I know nothing about apprenticeships in the tattoo industry, I'm just a regular illustrator, but I would think technical art skills would be important?
I had thought you had already posted on this, but I then realized that it was Celle est. She is a tattoo apprentice and she said the same thing about the lack of art. She posted her first stick and poke on fake skin, super proud of her accomplishment. Jenna hasn't. She has talked about where she is on learning to tattoo and how she wants to get into some of the beauty work tattooing eyebrows and freckles as well as art. Jenna has only mentioned in passing that she wants to do realism. Well, where is the realism? The only art she's shown is very bare bones sketches. That's not realistic. She needs to become an artist before she can become a tattoo artist. Just saying.
100%. Calling her an amateur artist is VERY generous, because what she's showing in her portfolio is clearly someone who hasn't practiced much,if at all.... And she wants to make money off it, when there's THOUSANDS of real artists who spent thousands of hours improving their craft who struggle to make a decent living? She lacks humility and insight, big time, which are a necessity for any artist, but especially tattoo artist.
Used to be an apprentice, my entire tattoo kit (machines, needles, fake skin, station supplies, ink, even decor lol) was $500. When I saw she was asking for $5000K towards her kit alone I just had to laugh.
I live in the most expensive county in Michigan and I don't know a single artist that costs that much. Then again, all the artists I know love to talk shit about this whole situation. The shop has a reputation...
I don't quite like the comparison to college or university because what you pay for is quite different. It's one thing to pay to sit in a classroom or lab and it's another to be essentially doing unpaid labour. Also you can be paid to go to school. In Canada, if you are doing a thesis-based Masters or a PhD, you will be paid (not a lot, about $15,000 CAD for a Masters)
Infantilization of women appeals to a very specific group of people. That group of people are, unsurprisingly, commonly found on apps that are heavily used by children/teenagers. They view and share the video a lot, and it spreads from there.
Here's my problem with this apprentice. Same thing people are having a problem with the internship. You're doing all of this work. No, your work, but other people's work too. And you're there for 6 months to a year and you get paid nothing that's slave labor. Over here in the US people have been arguing this for sometime. Just because something is traditional doesn't make it right.
I can somewhat understand unpaid apprenticiships even if they are an old and outdated practice. But PAYING $5K FOR ONE?? Youre *paying* ro do unpaid labor....
I feel like another argument against the “not all surgeons get surgery” is that most surgery is not elective whereas all tattoos are elective. Either way, love the video! Thanks for keeping those of us who refuse to download TikTok on the tattoo TikTok drama 😆
Yeah how does that work? Not having received surgery is a blessing as it means you are healthy. I know some ppl get forced to be tattooed but thats still not the same at all.
California is the 3rd largest state in America and you're telling me she has to move to *Michigan* to get a new apprenticeship. Like, fuck all the way off with that.
Literally lmao. I live in a big city in Texas and there's areas in the city that has several tattoo shops on one block! I'm sure Cali has similar spots like that. I'm never far from a tattoo shop.
To let you know, she's still showing 0 tattooing on anything, only some decent drawn art and 2 posts about getting engaged, as of 3.18.24 at like 11pm PST
@@getschwifty5271 and yes, she could have gone a few miles away to another shop. There's plenty. ✨if she wanted to tattoo she would✨, but she's just a SM manager at best and still playing dress up tattoo artist
Still flabberghasted that the US (and UK too?! That true?) thinks unpaid apprenticeships will result in skilled workers. That means only those with financial means or the herculean strength to work several jobs can do it. Wild af to me
Actually it’s illegal in the US to have unpaid internships unless they fit very specific criteria but people do them “under the table” I guess you could say
Okay, so I'm not a tattooer or a tattoo apprentice, but I'm getting a bodysuit worked on, so I've been in the shop every month for over two years now, and I've been paying attention and I think about things. A good apprenticeship isn't just about learning the technical skill of learning how to apply a tattoo and associated skills, it's learning how to run a tattoo shop, so they know what's up if they ever want to open their own shop, or they know what to look for if they join another shop, and it's about building good habits so that the hygiene standards in the shop are maintained and that keeping everything sanitary becomes second nature, and it's about learning how to communicate effectively with clients and also set reasonable boundaries and expectations, because some clients are real wild. A good mentor should be preparing their apprentice to move on someday and be successful, which means that they actually do need to know all of that 'shop manager' stuff. It's very much an important part of tattooing, if you want to have control over your own career.
Yes!! This right here. The technical application of a tattoo is the last part. The easier part tbh. There are a lot of moving parts in successfully completing an apprenticeship. I just graduated my own apprenticeship on 12/1. Learning to manage clients, the art, composition, finances, safety protocols- the list goes on. You absolutely hit the nail on the head 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Usually I am on the same page with you but in this, no. Matt doesn't come across as clout hungry at all. He shut down the speculation about letting Jenna go quickly because he has a shop to protect. Also, jumping on tattoo gate was a very shrewd business move. Again, less about clout and fame hunger, and more about business. The video about the job requirements, while probably about Jenna, if you take Jenna out of the picture, this is just a good video about working at a tattoo shop. The biggest problem A MASSIVE RED FLAG is apprenticeships are paid. All employment is paid. It doesn't matter what Matt thinks, he's breaking the law. I'd say he's trying to cover his ass. He should look into employment law where he is. Maybe the tattoo community is unknowingly exploitative - the exploited becomes the exploiter. Not okay tattoo crew.
100% agree. I mean it was even mentioned a few times that staff left Matt’s store due to bullying from Jenna’s posts… so not only did he have to shut down speculations but also back up his staff and go into defence mode…
Honestly wtf is up with Americans and unpaid internships/apprenticeships. I have had three instances of unpaid labour in my life. Two were volunteer work, one was a trial shift for a job (legal in Australia). You pay a reduced wage to an apprentice that increases as they continue until they finish. And the government will give you benefits for being an apprentice like reduced car registration fees. Having an industry standard of unpaid labour is shady af
Industries with required unpaid internships / training (not just shadowing but also generative work), for 500-2,000 hours: social work, mental health counseling, psychology, dieticians, child life, and those are just roles in healthcare that I'm personally aware of. Tattooing is not unique in this respect. The training, supervision, etc the employer offers is time they could be generating income (i.e. seeing more clients) and so it is a potential loss; what the intern brings in via labor contributions often does not cover this time. Interns are not always legally employees under the U.S. fair labor standards act, depending on whether the intern or employer is the primary beneficiary of the arrangement.
i agree and its wild seeing americans argue that because you pay for culinary school or nursing school that means tattoo apprentices shouldnt be paid. like you guys do realise there are countries where all education is completely free? like it SHOULD be. everyone should have equal opportunity to get any profession they want regardless of if they live in poverty or in a mansion. my countrys government even pays students to study because its not fair to expect students to have a job while going to school. so its funny watching americans use their unfair and gross educational system as a point as if theyre doing something lmao.
Just because it's industry standard doesn't mean it's legal, in California and several other states it isn't legal to accept unpaid interns without being affiliated with a recognized college/university.
But the difference is that people who go to school for a particular job aren’t forced to keep the school clean without pay. I realise tattoo shops work differently with how people are paid than most other jobs but making the person who isn’t making money clean up after you is just exploitation. I get it’s been done this way for a long time, that doesn’t make it good or okay.
They don't clean the school because you're paying thousands. They are cleaning shops because it's work trade. I worked at my beauty school to pay for part of education, and BTW all students in beauty do clean rooms etc. Because that's expected in salons too.
I went to collage for hairstyling and make up, I paid for it like any other university in my country, I was expected to buy all of the tools and clean my working space every time, along with sweeping the floor If we gave our models haircuts. Just because your school doesn’t require it, doesn’t mean it’s the same for each profession
@@discodeaky8225 cleaning your own workspace and what mess you’ve made to me makes total sense, being expected to keep the whole space clean outside of your own mess isn’t fair to me unless you’re being paid. The cleaning would be done in a tattoo shop whether they have an apprentice or not, so if you’re taking the chance to have the person who doesn’t get paid do the cleaning while you have them it’s exploitation.
@@lunacco but the cleaning in a tattoo shop has to be done by someone, and would be done by someone actually making money if they don’t have an apprentice. So to use the person who doesn’t make anything is exploitative.
@@stephaniecutting9223 its a trade off, they get paid in experience like who do you think pays for the supplies they use plus most tattoo artist take care of the space they use so the most they do is ether taking care of the front/moping and learning how to clean the supply's they use
It's always been funny to me how little art she actually posts. She's a content creator far more than she is a (tattoo) artist. That also conveniently ties into the fact that she doesn't have any tattoos. Look, I'm an apprentice and I only have 1 tattoo right now (I'm picky and poor lol, I'll get more over the years), I'm not expecting people to be covered. But it's odd to me to want to cover other people in your art, but not want any on your own body. How can you like tattoos so much that you want to make your career out of it, but not want any yourself?
Exactly. Having tattoos shows to me (a client) that you are at least as passionate about tattoo art/culture as I am. I get it, there are people who might have medical conditions that make it hard/impossible for them to get tattoos - I’m not talking about those people. I mean people who apparently LOVE tattoos and tattooing and CAN get them but just choose not to. And no one should HAVE to get them, but I also don’t HAVE to patronize their business either. 🤷🏼♀️
When I was considering becoming a tattooer and was having drawing sessions with one of my artists, I asked her EVERYTHING- the cost, the time, the tasks, etc. Seems like Jenna didn’t ask the right questions before she jumped into apprenticeship.
You're a better person than me, Lauren, because to me even her initial cutesy tiktoks were extremely annoying. In my experience people who want others to baby and fawn over them get really intense when not getting their way.
What’s bizarre to me is in the UK apprentices DO get paid. Tattoo apprenticeships don’t but if you go for an apprenticeship in any other field you’ll get a wage. I don’t understand why it’s any different for the tattoo industry. (Luckily, I don’t want to be a tattoo artist).
In the U.S. you pay to go to school, but you definitely don't take out trash and work become a volunteer employee. Even in a vocational school. The tattoo industry runs a shady business because they aren't regulated. People are definitely being taken advantage of by not knowing their rights.
re: the surgeons not getting surgery, to me that's way different. surgery is hardly a choice, it's more of a medical emergency, unlike getting a tattoo, which is always a choice. to me it's like getting my hair coloured by someone who for example, has never dyed their hair. different!
Most cosmetic surgeons HAVE had work themselves. And yes, I would absolutely prefer a cosmetic surgeon who has work done themselves perform surgery on me. But again, surgery is life and death and tattoo is not. You can absolutely be a little pickier with something that doesn't threaten your life like surgery does. And as I've said in other comments, I don't think comparing surgeons to tattoo artists is a valid comparison at all.
@@fawn2911Most of them do; it's good advertising. If I walk in and the receptionist is both gorgeous and an example of the doctor's work, my confidence in their skill goes up.
In Australia, paid apprenticeships are the standard in all industries. Apprentices and trainees are paid at a lower rate, typically a % of adult minimum wages. Yes there is a learning element to it, but the shop/business is still getting labour out of the deal (cleaning, social media management, etc). I think unpaid internships, apprenticeships or traineeships are crazy and unfair on the apprentice. A trade school/university doesn't expect the students to do any work for them for free.
Not to mention, if youre a "mature age apprentice" here, you get paid more than a younger apprentice of the same level. The logic being, I guess, that a 30yo has more life skills, and is more responsible than a 16yo, so youre not having to teach them quite as much. Plus, a 30yo likely has more responsibilities and expenses that mean they need a higher wage to justify taking on an apprenticeship to being with - a 16yo living at home with no debt can scrape by on less money than a 30yo who has rent and a car payment and a spouse at home with the baby.
Im in australia and was in a tattoo apprenticeship a year and a half ago - it was unpaid, which majority of tattoo apprenticeships are unpaid. Just a bit of insight if anyone's curious. 🧐
I mean yes students arent required to work at the university/trade school in exchange for an education, they generally have to... Work 1-3 jobs outside of school in order to pay the university. I would work unpaid cleaning at a fancy university for an education. Then my $ from other jobs dont disapear into the university's pockets. Im not defending unpaid labor and I actually believe education and training should be way more accessible if not outright free. Definitely dismantle barriers like class and income for a great/prestigious education. But it doesnt make sense the way our system is set up because then the mentor is doing actually free labor. Or actively paying to teach someone. Teaching is a real job and deserves compensation. Unless your mentor is bad this is an exchange of labor. And the mentor should be accommodating about schedules so that the apprentice can work to pay bills.
As an artist is so wack when matt said "you get paid in opportunity" in regard to apprenticeship. Thats like saying "I'll pay you in exposure" to artists. It's still a job and we still have bills to pay, what good is opportunity if I end up homeless or starving before I get that chance? I understand it's not quite a 1-1 comparison, but tattoo apprentices are doing more than just learning, they're working there too (also there's different apprenticeship programs out there that *do* pay their apprentices so I don't see why that can't be the same here).
i completely disagree with the notion that an apprentice shouldnt be paid. this economy is not conducive to any sort of uncompensated labor, and you might say “well shes getting a tattoo education.” but in MANY other intern type positions, they are still being paid SOMETHING in ADDITION to the experience theyre getting. i just 100% disagree with not being paid for any work you do. minimum her gas if she commutes to and from the shop and a percentage of her rent monthly should be paid by the shop. to have to pick up another job that pays enough (which is most likely emotionally and/or physically taxing) and ALSO be expected to do all of these other tasks at the tattoo shop AND have a PROPER tattoo education with no pay,,, im not having that. edit: this is ONLY about the unpaid part btw, everything else is Yikes
Here’s the thing, teaching someone to tattoo is extra work for tattoo artists. Therefore, it’s something that a lot of tattoo artists might not want to do if they are not compensated with free labor/an apprenticeship fee. So sadly I don’t think that unpaid apprenticeships will die out anytime soon.
@@rachelr.5171 I agree that a lot of artists cannot afford to pay their apprentices, and this may be an unpopular opinion, but in that case they simply should not have an apprentice. There are so many businesses in general that say "well we can't really afford to pay more than just minimum wage or give bonuses or even compensate you fairly." and i believe thats a business model of a failing company. if you cant afford to do something the right way for an extended period of time, then you shouldnt be in business period.
In the UK at least any apprenticeship in any industry should be paid. I have no experience with tattoo apprenticeships but I don't know of any reason why they should have different rules to any other apprenticeships.
I think the idea that no one should complain about an unpaid internship because it’s “industry standard” is a bad one, lots of things are industry standard and exploitative. Also paid apprenticeships are a thing in the UK for a lot of industries the person gets paid less, goes to college every so often and completes a qualification which increases their pay, and that seems like it has much more accountability than a tattoo shop that can keep you doing unpaid grunt work until they feel like you’re ready to start being paid for your time
To be fair the difference between university students and something like an apprentice is uni students can have student loans financial aid but you don't get that with an apprenticeship.
One of the best tattoo artists I know, from my hometown, has no tattoos and she is absolutely amazing with black and grey photorealism… so I’m not at all against getting tattooed by someone without tattoos, as long as they are good at what they do, they follow hygiene and safety protocols, it’s all good for me. Their work will have to speak for itself
I've been trying to get into a tattoo apprenticeship for a bit now and I've been told I have to pay anywhere from $1,600 - $4,000 just to START to be an apprentice, and its a little wild out here. Personally, I feel safer with a artist who has tattoos, just personally.
do not pay for an apprenticeship! that is a huge red flag. the right mentor is out there and they will not charge you. you work for free for an education, that’s how it works so just be careful
@@scarfver I know, I've avoided those places. Found out one place I talked to, the guy put his last apprentice in the hospital. So, I'm still looking and in the mean time, I'm going to start practicing on fake skin and all that.
I want to become a piercer and have been researching a lot about the process and what I need to do. The price to even get started is absolutely mind boggling
Every time I have called a tattoo shop in America inquiring about an apprenticeship, they all have told me it costs 5 thousand dollars. I am shocked to read another commenter mentioned it is actually illegal!
The difference between paying a ridiculous amount of money for training at an institution vs a tattoo shop is at the very least there is some kind of security eg: transferable credits or if you fail/have to take time off you generally can come back. If you pay $5000 for a tattoo apprenticeship and the mentor decides to drop you for no reason or you have issues that require a long break and they wont take you back or anything else you are out $5000 with maybe a bit of experience of show for it but that's it.
Not having tattoos is one thing, but I thought it was odd that her insta has next to no art. If she’s got a degree in fine art and wants to be an artist wouldn’t you have the art on display? Like how do people know if they like/want your art if you’re not displaying it. It’s weird to me.
Her infantilizing herself like she isn’t pushing 30 (if she actually is younger whoops don’t care) is the grossest thing I’ve ever seen and the fact she doesn’t even show her art work despite being a literal artistic field is so alarming
The whole "cute widdle baby" act makes me want to implode/vomit with cringe firstly. Secondly if she has a fine art degree and millions of followers she can make money without a gofundme/illegal raffle grift (raffles held for personal gain are illegal pretty much globally FYI). Thirdly I have made several big moves in my life including Australia to the UK, and all of them added together wouldn't come to $15k. Lastly, unpaid "apprenticeships" as this guy described are also illegal and I'm kinda disappointed at anyone perpetuating the idea that unpaid labour is ok, especially in a situation where there is no formal or transferrable qualifaction. If this is "normal" in the tattoo industry then they are just exploiting young hopefuls for free cleaners/receptionists/social media managers which is gross af.
The cute widdle baby act is pretty annoying- having a cute aesthetic is one thing but infantilising yourself is demeaning. Agreed with the unpaid labour aspect, maybe it was doable in the past but cost of living and insufficient minimum wages makes this increasingly unfeasible for someone to do as a second job.
I always interpreted that tradition as being a way of repaying the professional for the time and expertise it takes to teach someone a trade. Like this situation makes clear, you could pay $5k instead (pretty reasonable compared to any college or trade certifications) but think about history, here: a lot of kids back in the day who were interested in tattooing or part of the scenes that accepted or even glorified tattoos *weren't rich*, they were members of working-or-lower-class subcultures. Feels like people forget this because of how mainstream and 'cool' tattoos are now, but 20-30 years ago having even beautiful and artistic tattoos was seen as trashy or 'scary'. The people who got their apprenticeships then are probably just trying to 'pass on a good deed' that they themselves benefited from.
honestly bizarre how people didnt see this originally the same people acting suprised are the same people who instantly said she was a victim when she got fired despite no information even being discussed before the whole situation happened
I think anyone can be adorable or cute but there is a weird vibe to her that comes off as she wants to be perceived as innocent and use it in a manipulative way but I’ve known people who I would definitely describe as adorable 🤷🏻♀️
Actually in the uk it's required to pay an apprentice. It's usually less than minimum wage so on average it's maybe £120 per week, maybe a little less, maybe a little more but apprenticeships are 100% paid in the uk. Pretty sure unpaid apprenticeships are illegal in the uk unless it's strictly volunteer work or work shadowing? I've found the following - An intern is entitled to the National Minimum Wage if they count as a worker. Employers cannot avoid paying the National Minimum Wage if it's due by: saying or stating that it does not apply. making a written agreement saying someone is not a worker or that they're a volunteer. And - There are different rates of pay for apprentices depending on your age and what year of your apprenticeship you’re in. Your employment contract should confirm your rate of pay. Aged 16 to 18 The current National Minimum Wage rate for an apprentice is £5.28 per hour. Aged 19 or over and in your first year The current National Minimum Wage rate for an apprentice is £5.28 per hour. Aged 19 or over and have completed your first year You’re entitled to the National Minimum Wage or National Living Wage rate for your age. www.gov.uk/become-apprentice/pay-and-conditions www.jobteaser.com/en/advices/internships-know-your-rights#:~:text=An%20unpaid%20internship%20is%20legal,themselves%2C%20only%20shadowing%20an%20employee)
NOW! As for a TATTOO apprenticeship in the uk I don't think they are paid as standard BUT they really should be because, unfortunately, you can not claim any sort of funding or student funding for a tattoo apprenticeship in the uk. Most tattoo artists treat an apprenticeship as education, fine fair enough, but it's not education like a uni or college which means you legally can not claim student finance or student loans to help you survive while training. You also CAN NOT claim universal credit or any benefits because DWP considers you as working and in employment despite the fact you are not getting paid. Source - I asked my tattoo artists apprentice 😂
This doesn’t apply for tattoo apprenticeships sadly as it’s up to the discretion of the studio / artist as it can be seen as just education and you don’t get paid to go to school 😮💨 there’s a few articles about it.
The US has a problem with unpaid labor that may not be the same in the UK. Unpaid internships are only legal under very specific conditions. I'm wondering if tattoo apprenticeships in the US are more time consuming than those in the UK? From what was described as expected (the labor, cleaning, media management, etc), it sounds like that was functionally a job and an apprentice may not be able to work "day job" while apprenticing? I'm curious.
This situation really gets to me on several levels. I am an artist, got my BFA as well. Her entitlement is so irritating, especially for all the creatives working their asses off for their passions. It's not something everyone can do because it IS HARD. I worked up until the day before I had major brain surgery, if this is something you really want, you make it happen without go fund me.
I think starting a go fund me is fine, no one is being forced to donate, but it’s not at all right to be promoting people to donate by waving a free tattoo over their head when the platform isn’t for that. I do think it’s scummy though.
As a person that did a massage apprenticeship, the way it worked for me when I did it, is I learned and studied for a month before starting working on clients, and I worked for a $30 (plus maybe tip) per hour, and working 10-24 hours a week depending on booking, usually around 20 hours. I continued studying, paying per month, I think it was $200 the first month, and $400 once I started working. My work payed my tuition to my mentor/teacher, and my rent to the massage center I worked at, and more. It lasted a year, then I took a (expensive) test and graduated with my license. Then I charged $60 an hour for a massage. If I was still working today, I’d be charging $75 and hour. I don’t miss my hands hurting slightly all the time, but I do miss the people and the good work I did.
For me personally, being tattooed by someone without tattoos it’s not a dealbreaker. My coworker is also a part-time tattoo artist, and so far I’ve gotten two tattoos from them because I love their work. I also plan on getting more tattoos from them in the future. They themselves do not have any tattoos, and I’m unsure if They want to get tattoos in the future. That’s not my decision, but I also don’t care if they get any or not. I get tattoos from them because I love their artwork, and they are good at what they do. It’s as simple as that for me. (I made this comment only about 8 minutes into the video, But I just wanted to make this comment really quick)
One of my artists has only one tattoo herself, yet she creates such beautiful designs and is a supremely talented tattoo artist. She mentioned her first tattoo hurt significantly. And some of them do! So I can completely understand if someone, anyone, doesn't want a tattoo. I didn't trust her less because she wasn't covered in tattoos. Her demeanour and talent spoke for themselves. 💕
My artist charges a little over $1300 per day rate BUT let me tell you. She is worth every penny and is so fast! I think her half day rate is $700. I love her and gladly pay the price however tattoos are no longer "cheap." Especially in America, in fact the price of tattoos has persuaded people not to get inked!
I have a few feelings about this story: Regarding apprenticeships/internships, I personally dislike unpaid apprenticeships and internships and find that often they are a way to get labor from an entry level person. My husband is an engineer who had to do some "internships" during his college, but they were all paid. I think that if things were more standardized, and people could be guaranteed that they would all learn the same things, that would be different and the college/trade school example could apply, but in this case you really are at the mercy of the person you have as a mentor insofar as what you learn and the environment and so on. Additionally, as we saw in the tattoo gate situation, how easy it was for artists to "spread the word" erroneously about that one client, so the same could happen to an apprentice in their area in this current system. About the gofundme and all of that, I have been in groups that do mutual aid and so I don't immediately turn my nose up at helping others for things like this. What I do dislike is that she seems to expect this to fall into her lap, rather than to do the work to obtain what she says is her goal - a career in this industry. If that's the case, I'm sure there are ways to do so other than moving halfway across the country and begging for others to fund that move.
How exactly is it a vacation if your moving to live ??? Your just being hateful lol , the fact gofundme exist for medical emergencies is already dystopian to begin with , but someone just asking to money to move to get a new job is your big beef ??
@@yassine8935so you’re saying we should be using gofundme to help a girl with millions of followers move to another state, instead of people with medical emergencies?? stop jumping on her hog bro, she begged for donations and a month later she was posting her on vacation and buying a new pet 😂😂
@@yassine8935 She went on vacation to hawaii. Then to ask for money from other people to pay her way to move and her apprenticeship is way out of line. She wants the position without putting in the work. It's a slap in the face to anyone that works hard to get the position that she wants on a silver platter.
I work in surgical training and some softer-skill courses do have surgeons experiencing the patient side, such as practicing plastering techniques for broken bones on each other. It's a really good way for them to develop a sense for how an ill-fitting cast can feel for a patient. I wouldn't really want to draw a one-to-one line between tattoo artists and surgery, but most things have some common ground
He’s likely violating federal and/or state labor law by not paying his apprentices. These illegal practices are rampant in the industry. He obviously needs to be paying apprentices who are CLEANING, MANAGING INVENTORY, and doing other typical employee work. Tattoo shop owners who do this are just asking to have their lives and businesses fucked up. And they deserve it.
In UK law any apprentice HAS to be paid it’s a lower rate weekly. However at 21 or 1 year experience and you turn 21, it’s full pay STUDIO’s rely on students being uninformed
On her not having any tattoos- I get the whole surgeon argument, but this is a creative service we're talking about. I look at it more like if I were to go to a hairdresser, and they had unstyled hair, a makeup artist with no make up, a fashion designer with no style... it's not NECESSARY, but it matters.
The surgeon analogy doesn’t quite fit. However I do think that when a surgeon has been a patient themselves it makes them BETTER at the bedside. So it can only make them better artists… they have to know what it feels like to have something on your body forever to understand the gravity of the trust we put in them. Just my 2 cents.
the way her new mentor has 'tattoos for leaders' in their instagram bio...it's giving 'alpha male' type energy, the sort of person who'd join an MLM. Makes me cringe
I have a feeling she's going down this road because even before the internet turned on her, she probably couldn't get a apprenticeship. Anyone can look her up and would call the shop for a reference. Most local places are likely familiar with her and probably wouldn't take her on. So she leaned into the social media game and found a shop that cares more about money and clout than ethics or industry standards.
I had been working towards being a tattoo artist for a few years but since I have no tattoos I kept getting told I wouldn't get far in the industry (fair), though my reason for having none is due to skin issues, so while it SUCKS I do totally get why people would think its strange, because you dont really think about peoples skin or body image when you see no tattoos
My only contention, as an Australian, is the whole unpaid apprenticeship thing....Unpaid is the key word here.... Where I live apprentices get paid for their time, even in the tattoo industry, they get around $30 an hour. They do all the same things that American tattoo apprentices do, but they, rightly, get paid for their time too. Some places might not pay their apprentices, I haven't asked any of my tattoo artist friends about this tbh, but apprentices should get paid too.
Thanks for the video! Always inreresting to get the tea 💞 Not getting paid for an apprenticeship is a weird concept to me as a German. Since 2020 there has even been a minimum wage for vocational training here. Now, I don't think "tattoo artist" is recognised as a vocation (yet), so I can't speak to that industry. It just feels weird to me when I compare it to something like learning to become a hairdresser and one of them has to get paid (by law) and the other doesn't 🤷♀ (Edit: College is of course also free here, so I might just have a very skewed perspective on education lol)
I'm sorry but can we not give Matt a pass just because he did what was right for his business, he is still actively feeding into the drama by posting and making cheeky statements. I'm sorry but I'd never want to work for an employer who gives into internet clout by tearing down people I recently employed. It is not a good look for your business.
Yeuuup. And comparing it to nursing school is a joke. The students in nursing school aren’t required to clean the whole classroom, order and maintain supplies and manage the program’s instagram unpaid.
He is being a bit snarky, I will agree but to me it seems he is just trying to defend his choices (Jenna being let go) and his staff from the bullying they have copped due to Jenna and her videos… I mean, it was even said in the video that he had staff leave due to bullying that came from Jenna’s videos. I would be a lot more aggressive then Matt was if some self-infantilised woman was causing my business issues because she didn’t wanna be professional and just wanted to make “look at how cute and quirky I am!” TikTok’s…
Why do people think that major medical surgery is comparable to superficial body modification in terms of practitioner experience? It’s the straw man argument of all straw man arguments. I think my only question about tattoo artists not having tattoos is their reasoning for tattooing. Why would someone be against tattooing themselves but be fine with tattooing others? The tattoo/piercing industry is a highly personal one, for the tattooer and client. To me, in my opinion, a tattoo artist with no tattoos doesn’t have the same connection to the profession that tattooed artists do. The tattooing process is meaningful even if the tattoo itself has no meaning. That shared experience creates a connection between the artist and client that an artist with no tattoos can never really experience. I just don’t know how I would relate to a tattoo artist with no tattoos 🤷🏻♀️
Speaking about unpaid apprenticeships, I see them similarly as unpaid internships. I was fortunate to have 3 unpaid internships that my parents supported me through that have helped me to get to where I am in my career. Many - most in fact - in the US, are not fortunate enough to be financially stable to not be paid for their work. It is work. It’s education but it’s labor as well. It creates an unfair market, particularly in the US system where we have much fewer social systems than say the UK. Our poverty disparity is much higher. It’s likely that many potential tattoo artists lose out on the opportunity to become tattoo artists because they cannot afford to work for free. This is not Matt’s fault by any means. It’s a system that was in place long before he was a tattoo artist. But he, and other artists who do apprenticeships, need to examine how they interact with these systems. Because they can choose to do a paid apprenticeship. I’ve pushed every place I’ve ever worked at to pay interns. It hasn’t always worked but it’s important.
For the record I know that some medical specialists do in fact have to practice on each other so they know what it feels like. Like the doctor doing my EMG talked with me about having to go through the procedure himself to know what the shocks would feel like, and how much better I was taking it than any of them.
You don't have to be a painter to make frames. You don't have to be a fisherman to cook a fish. You don't have to be an artist to be an interior decorator. I have no issues with her not having tattoos herself. HER BODY, HER CHOICE. I have zero problems with that. All the other shit? Yeah, problems there. Edit: I will say that the stuff Matt was expecting her to do in the shop was a little much. She's responisible for their social media account? How is that learning anything about tattooing? I do understand managing shop supplies and restocking stations, but she definitely shouldn't be managing ordering supplies. Maybe making lists about how much of things are left, but if she's actually ordering things, that's an actual job and not something an apprentice should be doing.
A counter argument against someone needing tattoos to be a good tattoo artist would be mine (and honestly every other woman's opinion I've spoken to about this) on male Vs female obgyn. I'd much prefer a man than a woman. The women have all been so much rougher and less compassionate than the men have that I've encountered. They didn't have a vagina and still were so delicate. Ofcourse, a very personal experience, but I don't think you NEED something to understand it. There's enough people to learn how to do it right from, to do a great job.
Also tons of midwives out there who didn't have children themselves. Also are tattoo artists with tatooos automatically good? No. This channel alone keeps showing us awful stuff, either shitty tattoos visually or awful for the client's health.
@@Shirumoonmidwives are a bad example as in most states you don't need more than a first aid class to call yourself a midwife. It's not a protected medical degree, has regulation , and why they're not allowed in most hospitals/birthing centers unless they're also an OBGYN nurse
I definitely wouldn't get a tattoo by someone with no tattoos and I wouldn't get a peircing by someone with no peircings because they don't know they don't know what it feels like and just doesn't feel right.
My "main" tattoo artist only has tattoos on his legs, so in Canada he looks mostly untattooed, still is a pretty great tattoo artist. Wouldn't faze me even if he didn't have any, as long as he can acknowledge that it hurts and everyone has a different pain tolerance. Like would you get your ribs tattooed by someone who has tattoos everywhere except their ribs? Cause technically each part hurt differently
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if this was the girls plan the whole time. She comes off as someone pretending to be passionate about being a tattoo artist, but it feels very performative. It's not due to her not having any tattoos, it's just... there's something off and I can't put my finger on it. I've known 2 people who wanted to be tattoo artists and had apprenticeships and all they did was draw, all the time. Like, 100 page sketchbooks completely full every other week PLUS canvas paintings. You said yourself, her social media is essentially devoid of art. It's like she's in love with the IDEA of being a tattoo artist cause it's "quirky and fun" but doesn't want to pay the dues that every other artist does. I could be wrong, but that's how she comes off. Oh yeah, I managed to catch my roommate on his way to work to ask him about apprenticeship fees. He's been tattooing for 25-30 years now. He told me that he paid to apprentice back in the 80s, and he didn't think it was an odd thing at all, which surprised me. He did mention that the more someone does around a shop in terms of cleaning and restocking, etc, can affect the amount. He said there's a bare minimum that an apprentice needs to do because it IS part of the job but he's known younger artists that have worked out deals with his friends that own shops to do extra cleaning and whatnot in exchange for a lower fee. Which makes sense, I guess you learn something new everyday :)
once again just gonna mention that where a lot of us live unpaid long term internships/apprenticeships are illegal so seeing stuff like this is quite.... off? appalling? exploitative? something like that, never mind the labour not related to what you're there for. saying it's like going to school and having to work on the side is fine and all until you realize that you're not going around cleaning the entire school and restocking whatever supplies or updating the schools website or socials. it's not equivalent at all. even if it is the industry standard doesn't mean it's not illegal or at the very least legally grey. personally I don't have a problem with starting a go fund me for something like that (I personally don't trust those kinds of things but to each their own) as long as you don't try to guilt trip or coerce people to donate. it should just be a "hey if you wanna help out you can tnx" and that's it. but the merch idea would probably be better, like choices have consequences and you should be prepared for that.
If Jenna didn’t disclose the reason she was let go then she probably doesn’t want it in the public. I think Matt is right to say it’s her buisness & her dirty laundry that he doesn’t feel right to tell. If I was fired I wouldn’t want a wave of people talking about it & harassing the ex boss
I fully agree with Matt. The issue with Jenna is her video was all "I don't even know why I was let go! UwU"
She should have said "I'm human, I got fired and am growing and learning from it."
I'm in the age where I'm starting to be responsible for hiring and firing stuff and I'd interview the person who can say that. If I was interviewing the most amazing candidate, I wouldn't give them the job on the basis of seeing a video like that one or hearing that she got hate sent to her old boss
Yes, it is amazing how many employees call out twice a week and barely do the minimum of the job and yet are so confused when it doesn't work out.
It’s that she played the victim and made it seem like she had no idea why it happened. She knew… she messed up in some way…
EXACTLY!! Matt handled that response really well. It’s also kind of illegal for your boss to be telling people why you were fired.
But he CLEARLY threw shade at her after saying that, really???? You ppl see what you want to see
As a tattoo artist that is currently mentoring an apprentice, i couldn’t believe how nonexistent her art was on her page. Let alone everything else! I worked a convention over the summer that her and Matt were both at and again. No art on her end was present. It’s one thing to not have physical tattoos on your own body. Right? Your own physical body is autonomous and while I wouldn’t get tattooed by someone with no tattoos, it’s her choice. But the whole point of being a tattoo artist is to put art on other peoples bodies ! It’s about selling your art ! If there’s not even an ability to put together a basic image, there’s no tattoo. There’s no tattooing . There’s no love of tattooing . So yeah. I call bs on all of it.
As a current apprentice, that was always surprising to me. Especially given that she mentions wanting to get into realism in the video and being "classically trained", the one flash drop I just saw on her page (that I had to scroll down very far for) is...a very far cry from that.
During the whole video I kept wondering "and so can we see her art?". Such a weird story, she clearly doesn't give a crap about tattooing and just wants to be seen as a "cool alt" girl
I also noticed in every video discussing her most don't show her artwork because she.... Simply doesn't post a whole lot of it. If her tiktok page was about other stuff BESIDES being an apprentice that would be one thing as I get not wanting to talk about and show your art all the time if your page is about other stuff. But she's an artist who apparently loves tattooing and... Doesn't show her designs or work. Doesn't talk about practicing with transfers or learning how the gun works. What's the point of running a page dedicated to being a tattoo artist if you don't talk about or show any of the tattooing or artistry? It seems like she just likes the gimmick of being a hyper-feminine girl in the tattooing scene and doing cute little memes in a tattoo shop. Which is not the point of being a tattoo apprentice.
Yeah, especially since she mentioned that she'd gone to school and gotten a degree in fine arts. I took studio art as a minor and one thing that all these schools will push you to do and require of you is to keep a portfolio, and these days that means an online one that can be easily accessed by anyone wanting to see it. Before anything else, that portfolio is your resume, so her having a very active social media presence that doesn't really include that is odd. And like a student portfolio for school purposes, a portfolio of your work as an apprentice, especially in a format that would provide a comprehensive timeline of your improvements in an apprenticeship would be SUBSTANTIAL for getting a job after (or , in this case, a new apprenticeship)
After reading this comment, I had to search for her art. It's definitely a starting point, but it's extremely mediocre for a tattooist and for someone to hype up going to art school for it.
Hi Lauren! Tattoo artist here, I would highly recommend checking out videos about apprenticeships by Lynn Loheide, while going unpaid is an 'industry standard' it absolutely should not be. Most apprenticeships are actually illegal under the Fitzgerald Act in the US, and unpaid free labor for the shop (not the learning, like cleaning, social media) is considered wage theft and several court cases have routinely sided with the apprentice. I love your content and know that I am in the US and your perspective is the UK, but unpaid apprenticeships are what help perpetuate a lot of abuse in the industry and should absolutely change for the better! Industry standard doesn't mean that it is how it should be 💖
I would agree with you 100% in most circumstances. If you already went to school for something, know what you're doing, but are required to do x amount of time doing an internship and are literally just doing the job (White house intern for example) you should ABSOLUTELY get paid. This is not the case with a tattoo internship, however. The artist is literally spending their time and energy teaching you a craft, they should receive some type of compensation in return. Expecting them to do work for you (educating you in this case) is exploitative to the artist. Why would an artist ever take on an apprentice in that scenario? Just out of the kindness of their hearts? I don't think sweeping some floors is asking for too much, it's an even exchange. Would you expect a teacher to pay you for going to a trade school? Unhinged.
@@BasedWop yeah but people going to trade school aren’t expected to keep the school clean without pay.
@BasedWop The compensation is a competent employee who helps bring your business money. If you're only bringing on an apprentice because you want free labor then you shouldn't be bringing on an apprentice. Also they aren't paying them out of the kindness of their hearts, it's literally the law.
@@stephaniecutting9223 lol of course not, they're paying to go to the school why would they have to 🤣 I'm seeing some awful arguments here and the fact that four people liked your comment is extremely concerning. Again, these things are not alike and in fact they're the mirror opposites of each other. An accurate comparison would be if the apprentice was paying the tattoo artist for an education. In that case no, they should not be required to sweep the floors and if they were it would be exploitative. If
the tattoo artist had to pay the apprentice so the artist could spend valuable time teaching the student so that the student can then go on to make money off of what they were taught why would anyone ever volunteer themselves for that? Were they sentenced to do community service or something? Why do you consider it ok for an artist to be exploited for their labor but not a student? NOBODY should be exploited for their labor, the artists are workers too. In this arrangement the apprentice receives an education and a future career path, the artist gets his floors swept and toilets cleaned. Even exchange. Educating you is not a privilege, get over yourself. Don't want to sweep floors? Fine, pay me instead. Otherwise you can kick rocks. The apprentice needs the artist, the artist does not need the apprentice. He could be tattooing someone and getting payed instead of serving you because you think you're too good to do manual labor.
@@gray7699an apprentice is, by definition, NOT competent. An apprentice doesn't bring you business, they take up your time, get in your way and do shitty tattoos that people associate with your shop for the first several months until they get good.
An apprentice doesn't have any requirement to stay once they are fully trained, and will often leave to go to a shop that doesn't take apprenticeships once they are released from the apprenticeship.
An apprentice is a liability, not an asset, which is why a lot of shops/artists won't take them on at all.
If she has an art degree, the smart idea would have been maybe making art prints and selling them instead of straight up asking people for money. She didn't even try 🤦
She claims she started getting classically trained at 7. Methinks gurl went to community College or to a really expensive school or she'd tell us what her training is.
@@dismurrart6648Agreed. When I was at Uni I knew a few people studying at the Fine Arts College and they would have stated where they obtained their qualifications as artists. By the look of things Jenna doesn't have the "classical training" she claimed but was likely simply occasionally drawing and sculpting in her high school art class like any normal student. She doesn't come across as being passionate about art but instead as being wrapped up in herself and social media.
@Adara007 that's something I think about often. To be a traditional artist, you have to be passionate about art. To be good at social media, you have to be good at marketing, filming, and editing.
That is what it is but there are far more amazing artists who just significantly lack in one or more categories that we just don't know.
The fact she said that line about classically trained since I was 7 told me she doesn't really know or do art that much so she doesn't understand how weird that sounds.
I shows you her mindset tho that’s probably what rubbed her coworkers the wrong way
Im not trying to be an asshole, but she did a sketchbook tour on her page and all of the designs were rough af. Like clip art looking things. I get that sketchbooks dont have fully finished drawings but they didnt even look like sketches from someone that is "classically trained".
I went to art school with people like this. After a while, our teacher admitted to not providing a lot of constructive feedback to those students because they couldn’t handle the fact that they had a lot of room to improve. After looking at her portfolio, I’m confident that she hasn’t received a lot of professional feedback.
The way she infantalizes herself is actually so disturbing. She seems really unprofessional
Yeah I was very put off by her videos while she was an apprentice. I can’t imagine anyone in the shop wasn’t annoyed by her, it’s no wonder she was kicked out
@@cypressoaksI don't think the way someone presents on social media necessarily indicates how they act in real life. Just because she acted cutsey and naive in tiktoks doesn't mean she actually acted that way with others in the shop.
@@stellasdoesstuffmost people who act cutesy online very much carry it into their real lives.
Yeh, I agree with this..
FULL BLOWN CRIIIIIIINGE
Imagine doing apprenticeship under the guy who fixes a tattoogate situation for free and deciding you want to join the tattoogate villains instead.
This is where I'm spiraling. And her bf is cool with this new scam? 🥴🥴
@@mistyn2708cause he’s probs just as bad as her 😭
If he can do that for “free” then he should pay his apprentices..
He pays them: he does not charge them for the apprenticeship. That's in the video: in order to learn, you either pay or work. And one "charitable" gesture (that's actually a way to promote himself, so the money he loses on that tattoo is the same thing as paying for an ad campaign) does not bind someone to be as charitable to everyone else in the world. @@dearrationals
Matt sucks
I think the comparison between tattoo apprentices having no tattoos and a surgeon having never had surgery is kind of a false equivalency. A better comparison would maybe be that it's like someone who is training to become a sushi chef but has never had sushi.
yes surgery is not an art.
@@Zectifin But you can make art on paper so that's not a good point. I guess there can't be a consensus on this one.
@@Zectifini feel like the more important point here is that tattoos are wholly elective while surgery can be necessary. elective plastic surgery is a better equivalent to getting tattoos
The other thing I was thinking about it how during surgery, you’re not conscious anyway so you don’t really gain any knowledge by going under anyways and even if you were conscious, you wouldn’t get even a baseline understanding of how to do surgery yourself. Whereas getting a tattoo does teach you a lot about what it’s like to be an artist.
@@ZectifinSurgery is an art, maybe not in a "self expression" kind of way, but you absolutely need a creative mind to be good at it. That said, the analogy is kinda weak. Comparing it to a chef who hasn't tried the cuisine they cook is better....
She is scary good at manipulation, look at the way she spun her situation to get people to donate to her gofundme for her moving expenses because she literally just wanted free money. And I'm convinced she was just trying to get free money because with her big following on social media, she could have easily created a patreon with content behind a paywall to fund her moving expenses/apprenticeship fee.
She probably wanted to be a victim.
??? How , ppl still have rent to pay lmao, she's said she has a higher learning in an American college and her tatto apprentice clearly said thos as free labor , so if your in dept and didn't get any money during their apprenticeship, istg yall be trying to make villains outa pll off social media we don't even know . This the same shi as saying the lady that got hit with a brick in the face and went to an american hospital and made a gofundme for her medical bils was scamming ppl . Most americans don't even have $400 in their savings let alone a college student.
It can't be a me thing that i saw right through her game. People are so trusting of women. Why.
@@iAmNothingness
Especially white women. She had a wholesome only presence and made herself seem almost childlike so people came to her defense.
I don't think she's like intentionally making herself the victim, but she's 100% trying to milk her audience. People who are probably broke as fuck.
@@iAmNothingness I don't think this is solely due to gender. I think it's more so because she created this sweet/innocent persona for herself on her social media and because a lot of people either consciously or unconsciously view tattoos/tattoo shops as being tough/rebellious it causes them to immediately assume she's the victim. It's the put on of the overly sweet/innocent persona that I see as the root level of manipulation because it primes people to immediately assume you're the victim in any situation. I've seen plenty of guys do the same thing by always acting like nothing upsets them and staying calm, but constantly talking about how everyone them is wrong or pushing the other person's buttons to get them to explode so that person looks like the irrational one.
As a former apprentice, college student and now working in the medical field - Comparing trade schools and colleges to an apprenticeship is wild like they are not comparable at all! 😭😭 college students don’t clean up the classroom or set up their professors PowerPoint presentation for the class. There is NO LABOR in going to school. Apprenticeships requires labor, lots of it! Taking our trash, managing social media, making appointments and answer phone calls.
With nursing school, they do an Externship. It’s short term and they shadow the professionals they are tasked to work with. some of the time, they don’t have to complete tasks like a paid employee. Y’all need to stop throwing all these professions into the same pot when tryna excuse not paying your apprentices, cuz I promise you, they are not the same. The Fitzgerald Act in the USA exist for a reason
Tbf there are students that clean up a classroom and set up the professor's PowerPoint they're just called teaching assistants but they still get paid for their work
The difference is that the College/School gets paid per student (privately or with public funding) whilst a tattoo studio doesn’t get a dime for teaching an apprentice.
That comparison was so out of line. You also get certifications for those trade school and college educations? Please calm down, Matt.
Sure, college students don’t clean classrooms or make teachers PowerPoint presentations, but they also are paying thousands of dollars for their education. In fact, a lot of students get campus jobs, so they ARE doing labor around the schools, and they still have student loans, just slightly smaller ones. And student teachers? Paying thousands of dollars to do everything a regular teacher does.
I don’t know enough about the industry to know how long an apprenticeship is, and what the labor to learning ratios are, how long they’re in the shop, etc. And I believe that everyone is entitled to making a living. But an established tattoo artist losing out on income because they’re teaching an apprentice, and wanting to make up some of that income by having their apprentice help out around the shop seems reasonable to me. Would you prefer apprentices not do anything but learn, but have to pay to be an apprentice?
@@bob8mybobbob
This is my thinking, too. In this video, it's mentioned multiple times that if an apprentice isn't paying for their apprenticeship that they're working for the shop in lieu of paying for their education. If someone wasn't paying for their trade school education or their university education and wasn't having their education paid for by a third party (family, scholarships, grants, etc), then wouldn't it be reasonable for them to trade some of their labor in return for their education?
One problem I have with unpaid apprenticeships is when they are not overseen by an outside body, there is nobody to ensure the safety of the apprentice or the quality of the teaching.
i went to take a look at her portfolio and for someone who claims to be “classically trained since 7” she really doesn’t have much to show for it.
Saw her portfolio. Her little felt sculptures were fine, I believe. The rest, well...they don't seem very professional. It's crazy how someone that has that level of a portfolio could get an internship
i don't want to be mean but her art (that i've seen) is downright embarassing for someone who claims to have a BA in art
@@halyjher realism is better than her cartoon style but the proportions are all slightly off and make them look odd. The cartoon style is very childish and reminiscent of a young high schoolers work. It reminds me of the art I was doing when I was 14
Her 3d stuff was by FAR her strongest work. And her stop motion animations using her 3d models had a lot of promise. Absolutely no idea why she decided to pursue tattooing when her creative talent lies very clearly in 3d and stop-motion animation.
Is the portfolio you guys were looking at the right portfolio ? Clicking on the Instagram link at the bottom leads to a totally different account..
she's one of those people I always felt bad about finding annoying - I think it was how much she used like baby/child sounds in her tiktoks to almost infantilise herself, idk, glad I have a valid reason to dislike her now haha
It's a manipulative tactic. People like her are horrible and give others with similar interests a bad name. She isn't "like other girls" for sure.
Your other reason is fine too tbh. Infantilizing women, them playing into it and just valuing baby like young qualities in adult women and only women is creepy and weird. Finding it off-putting is understandable.
nah I feel that. I hate when grown women do that. I love dressing and feeling cute, but I'm a grown ass woman when I'm feeling cute, not a baby.
infantilizing is the word. i don’t feel comfortable around people who advertise themselves as adult babies
Her IG is very telling, I will say that.
You can tell by the Tiktoks that this woman messed around the shop all day and didn't actually do anything productive. Not surprising she was let go. It's the aesthetic of being a tattoo artist that she wants without the hard work.
Making these videos is work and it made the shop popular 🤦
@@Aliasass social media is a job. but it wasn't HER job. she was a tattoo apprentice, not a social media manager.
@@jerikaljgdkthen why were they filming and posting her?
@@jerikaljgdkmatt literally says the apprentice is in charge of social media??? what are you talking about??
Exactly
Have to admit I've never been tattooed by someone who didn't have a lot of their own tattoos and I'm not sure it's something that would necessarily be a deal breaker if I liked the artist's work, but there is something to be said about a tattoo artist knowing what this incredibly unique type of pain and healing process feels like personally. It's a tough one for me but ultimately I'd be a bit skeptical/wary of getting a tattoo from an artist without any of their own ink.
For sure. When I was super nervous getting my first tattoo and the guy doing it calmly told me what to expect, I looked at his head/neck/arm tattoos and went, "Uh-huh yessir I'll take your word for it." lol. I listened to what he told me for aftercare, and my healing went fine. I'd never insist on someone doing something permanent to their body, but I agree, I'd be a bit skeptical. Especially since she made it her entire "brand" instead of showcasing any artwork...
I think for me the benefit of an artist with tattoos is that they have experience as tattooed person. Especially if you’re getting your first tattoo or a more visible placement a tattoo artist who can tell you their lived experience as a tattooed person in your area is a big help. I think an artist with no tattoos is a bit of a red flag for the same reason a painter with no art on their walls is a red flag, it’s odd and with how many tattoo artists exist, I’ll just choose a different one.
@@brightknight1965 Absolutely agree!
I would never get tattooed by someone who wasnt extensively tatted. I am aware some ppl dont have a skin type that can handle tats/piercings, but that would still be a dealbreaker.
I'd prefer one that was tattooed and if I was getting a tattoo in a particular place that'd have it's own issues like an ankle or rib or spine, then I'd hopefully want my tattoo artist to have experience getting tattooed there or somewhere similar so they have that first hand knowledge of "this spot will suck, warn them/give them a breather" and if there is something about that spot that makes it different healing it, they'd have that knowledge first hand rather than just the general things you tell someone about the healing process. I think a good comparison of it is I wouldn't take a workout plan from someone that doesn't go to the gym. Anyone can google how to do it and regurgitate it, but they don't have the personal experience doing it themselves to know how it should feel, what is actually effective for what reason, how much is too much/little, etc.
Not to mention that she needs a tattoo starter kit for 5000$. I thought she was in a prior apprenticeship, she must have a starter kit already.
I'm just tired of everyone making a go fund me for literally everything. unless its like a medical crisis or you're about to be homeless, why should people who are also trying to make ends meet pay for you to do something? go get a job at mcdonalds and save up.
🤮 with 5000 you can start a whole private shop, and make it hygienic and proper. She’s greedy and entitled
This was my thought too, shouldn't she already have a kit..
Also wouldn’t her tattoo artist boyfriend have access to a kit? Like as an apprentice she won’t be tattooing constantly and could use his. I don’t expect my wife to get a separate set of brushes and paints when we paint together.
I can actually understand why a tattoo artist might not have tattoos, but I also understand why people aren’t comfortable being tattooed by someone who doesn’t have any. There’s a ton of medical reasons that someone might have that makes getting a tattoo dangerous, or it’s possible they did tattoo themselves and didn’t use ink so all that’s left is just a scar, or maybe they do have tattoos and they’re just not in places where it’s able to be shown. There’s nothing wrong with having a preference for your artists, but as long as they’re hygienic and following safety protocols I don’t think it’s worth criticizing them.
Thank you for mentioning this:)I have medical issues that make rejection/infection extremely likely, but I always wanted a tattoo! Even just to fill in my eyebrows 😂😅 but I know I’d probably get really sick.
this is also where i stand. i think expecting artists to have tattoos is silly, but i also completely understand why an artist without them might have a harder time getting business
i don’t see why she doesn’t just try to find a social media managing job at an established shop that needs to hire a person just for that-she clearly just wants to be involved in the space. not that she’s the most highly requested employee at the moment…
Girl no, im sorry but most unpaid apprenticeships are in my opinion super unethical, and not very comparable to any other kind of school. Apprenticeships usually involve doing heaps of chores rather than actually learning to tattoo. Sure, theres something to learn in that too, but chores are 100% something that people should be getting paid for. Dont janitors get paid? Tattoo artists arent trained teachers, either. Its not like im funding an educational institution. Sorry this is something i feel very strongly about as an aspiring artist. I was about to give up on my dream because of this industry standard. If this is the standard, then why would i surround myself with people who believe wage theft is completely justified? Ive definitely changed my mind about people choosing skip their apprenticeship. Its just very outdated.
I completely agree , to add on as well. In every other trades industry, apprentices are payed industry minimum since it is a job even if you’re learning the profession along the way.
yeah, i completely agree! however, i do think there is something to be said for jenna demanding to be the exception for this rule being paid by her audience - especially right after the whole hawaii trip.
100% agree!!!
@@eleanorboggs3308 100%
Thank you. Not enough people looking at this from a left-leaning perspective. Unpaid internships are unethical, and I also believe at least the first few years of college education or trade schools should be free or affordable instead of continuing with the predatory for-profit institutions we have now.
It seems... Very illegal to not pay apprentices. Yeah, I know "unpaid internships" are very common, but those are also illegal the vast majority of the time. For it to be legal to not pay someone for an internship, the experience has to be 100% for their benefit and they cannot provide labor that materially benefits the employer/that a paid employee would normally do. Cleaning the shop, ordering inventory, and managing the Instagram account are very obviously things that benefit the employer and are not solely for the benefit of the apprentice. Just because it's industry standard doesn't mean it's okay. Apprentices should be paid and, at least in the United States, it's illegal for them to not be.
Edit: Saw some arguments in other comments about whether apprentices should or should not be paid. Regardless of "should", US law says that it's illegal for them to not be paid.
I get what you're saying, but cleaning the shop, managing inventory, and managing social media presence also gives someone good hands-on experience for running their own business. I know there must be a line somewhere, but on its face these all seem to have at least some valid educational value (except perhaps for cleaning the shop -- tattoo-specific hygienic cleaning, yes, scrubbing toilets, not so much).
@@MM-jf1meidk if you ever followed up and looked into this, but the law is that if your intern is providing the company with tangible benefit they must be paid. So her doing chores, ordering, social media should all be paid for as they are for the benefit of the business, not herself. If she was simply standing by and observing/asking questions/ using their tools to practice (not on clients) then she would not need to be paid.
Unpaid tattoo apprenticeship may have worked in the past when cost of living wasn't so high as it is now. Is this something you can take out a student loan for? When people go to college or trade school, they take out student loans to help with the cost. I mean, how can a person live in this economy on what a part time job pays? Plus a part time job that works around your schedule you have as a tattoo apprentice. I guess they can live with their parents if they're lucky to have that as an option but most people don't. It seems like you need to have a certain amount of privilege to be a tattoo artist anymore vs talent.
No, you can't take out a student loan for a tattoo apprenticeship.
@@Amilyn-uk9qxim pretty sure it was a rhetorical question /lh
@@applespotty2232
Not necessarily. If people are paying for apprenticeships, there might be loans available; it's too bad this isn't the case.
People got to remember, looks can be deceiving. Just because someone has a cute appearance and portrays themselves with a cute or innocent persona on social media, it speaks nothing on their true inner character. Most people think of "don't judge a book by its cover" for negative qualities but it also applies to not assuming positive qualities either. Too many people were quick to assume Jenna Grace was an amazing wholesome person just based on her cutesy looks and persona without knowing anything about her off-camera, like what people who've been around her in real life might know.
i’m of the belief that anyone trying SO hard to portray a certain image of purity is the exact opposite. jenna infantilizing herself to that degree screams red flags.
this!!! I find her style and persona off-putting. it comes off as manipulative to me.
Her videos literally made me GAG.
I get extremely put off by people like her… women that use this trope are usually vipers hiding their true nature and accountability for their actions. It’s so frustrating that so many people (specially men) fall for this facade.
I don't mean this to be overly rude, but I don't see her as looking cute. I don't see how she's managed to pull this off.
I’m a black female tattoo artist with no tattoos. I don’t have any for quite a few reasons. I definitely received harsh feedback from just that fact alone. I care about safety, I care about my clients, I care about their experience, and I care about my work. All I want to do is strive to always get better and give my clients something to be proud of. It is what it is. You don’t have to like it but my clients do!
To be fair I dont think tattoo artists should judge you for Not being tattoed. Black Skin needs a Skilled tattoo artist that understands how to tattoo Darker Skin tones and its a Shame Not Many invest in inclusivity
I just have tattoos but I would not have a problem with getting tattooed by someone without tattoos. I find it kinda odd that people have such a problem with it tbh.
The last time I got tattooed, the artist didn't have any tattoos and is one of my favorite pieces. He also has only three years tattooing, and I'm pretty satisfied with everything
ooh what's your insta? and i agree i think the whole "you're not a valid artist if you don't have tattoos" argument is rooted in elitism which runs rampant in the tattoo community
Sorry if its too personal it’s no one’s business but yours. But why don’t you want any? Definitely don’t have to answer but I’m curious what someone’s reason might be. Cause you obviously like tattoos if that’s what you chose to do as a career.
In the US you are paid for learning a trade if you’re an apprentice. This is hidden by tattoo culture/the industry but they’re supposed to pay you.
“Oh but I didn’t get paid” - I’m sorry you didn’t. That doesn’t change the law now.
“Oh but they’re learning a skill” - they’re also asked to dedicate full time to it.
“Why should we pay someone to learn” - because they do daily labor still like cleaning/stockkng/managing the front
“Well their payment is in education” - this doesn’t put food on their table.
“No one is paying their apprentices” - everyone breaking a law doesn’t make the law moot. 90% of drivers mowing down pedestrians doesn’t negate the fact it’s not supposed to happen. (This is an example this is not an actual statistic)
“Oh but how do we expect them to pay” - if you can’t afford to pay someone you shouldn’t be taking them on. You’re not successful at this time as a businessman. Sorry.
Not that Jenna is right. I don’t like her content, I wouldn’t get a tattoo from her, she’s done some ridiculous stuff and is shady as can be, but that doesn’t eliminate the above.
Thank you for this cuz I am so tired of people not understanding that at the end of the day, apprenticeships is a form of labor 🙃
@@HORIZONNNN it’s a huge problem.
Cosmetology school is not a form of apprenticeship and I see that used a lot. You aren’t a full time employee when going to school, you just have to complete a certain number of hours under your education program to be licensed but you aren’t asked to dedicate a full 40 hours a week.
But physicians for example, get paid as full time residents. So do carpenter apprentices, electricians, and if you’re bypassing school to be a barber or cosmetologist by apprenticing at a salon. You’re not paid like a full time employee, but you are paid at least minimum wage.
The US has a whole department dedicated to this. It’s not practiced because everyone just assumes it’s the norm but really that’s a law. If they’re alerted they can investigate and make you pay and then you face repercussions if you fire the apprentice which is a very rare time firing someone can be extremely suspicious.
@@song5361well, I'm from brazil and although our labor laws are not as fucked up as in the usa, there are some really messed up legislation about residency in the health field. I'm a psychologyst currently doing residency and we literally work 12 hours per day when the maximum allowed for regular workers is 8 hours. Internships here cannot surpass the amount of 4 hours a day, 5 days a week, and they receive just 400 reais (81 dollars, aproximately) at minimum. There are apprenticeship programs that were supposed to teach students how to master a sort of art or work but mostly companies jut use them to hire cheap labour and those apprentices merely do customer service. I guess even with the minimum rights guaranteed, bosses will always find a way to exploit ppl
Seriously the amount of ppl defending unpaid labor is… Not to mention, the industry is creating a culture where only people privileged enough to do unpaid labor can be educated. It’s really gross.
@@rosiepark9607it's funny because i think a lot of people in these spaces parroting the idea that shops shouldn't have to pay apprentices a living wage are probably the same crowd of e-"leftists" that claim to be socialists. so like... which is it? rules for thee but not for me??
A "junior artist" at that shop charging $250/hr is wild. Jenna charging anywhere near that is absolutely ridiculous! She's an apprentice, so first off she shouldn't be working on anything that would be a whole day with one client! Apprentices work with flash and simple and smaller pieces, they don't jump straight to full day sessions! Besides that, her pricing is absolutely insane. $250/hr is a rate for a top quality, skilled, experienced artist to charge, not an apprentice, or "junior artist" for that matter. It blows my mind that the shop is even allowing this.
Not only that, her portfolio isn't at level where she should be allowed anywhere near a client..
I don’t understand how she swindled so many people when you can tell from just the few videos you showed here that she’s absolutely insufferable
Because she's playing up the naive baby stuff which fools people who lack experience with manipulators like this
Lol right? Even if she's exactly as she portrayed herself on sm she'd still be someone I would want nothing to do with
@@ayajade6683 I think she appeals to people who have a kink for that kind of stuff.
“i am classically trained in drawing, painting, and sculpting and have been since i was seven” what????? how is that even possible lmao
It’s not possible
Hey Lauren, thanks for covering the newest madness (again) 🙂 Sidebar: In Germany apprentices are getting paid for their apprenticeship in all the mentioned fields like cosmetology, healthcare and nursing, tattoo, and so on; its mostly not much, but they are paid. There also are apprenticeship-contracts in which all the details are witten down. There are also official chambers of crafts/commerce who overlook and regulate everything.
With the teeniest bit of internet sleuthing I was able to find her art portfolio site (really, it was a teeny amount. She links it herself on some of her social media) and while I don't want to sound like I'm putting her down, I find it honestly a bit surprising she was able to get an apprenticeship. Unless her art has improved since, the art I was able to find online by her is definitely in need of some improvement before it gets tattooed on anyone. I know nothing about apprenticeships in the tattoo industry, I'm just a regular illustrator, but I would think technical art skills would be important?
Classically trained since 7 🤷🏻♂️
after taking a look for myself i definitely agree with you
@@RusPitmanthat part was so funny to me
I looked and it was worse than i thought
found the portfolio. yikes.
I had thought you had already posted on this, but I then realized that it was Celle est. She is a tattoo apprentice and she said the same thing about the lack of art. She posted her first stick and poke on fake skin, super proud of her accomplishment. Jenna hasn't. She has talked about where she is on learning to tattoo and how she wants to get into some of the beauty work tattooing eyebrows and freckles as well as art. Jenna has only mentioned in passing that she wants to do realism. Well, where is the realism? The only art she's shown is very bare bones sketches. That's not realistic. She needs to become an artist before she can become a tattoo artist. Just saying.
100%. Calling her an amateur artist is VERY generous, because what she's showing in her portfolio is clearly someone who hasn't practiced much,if at all.... And she wants to make money off it, when there's THOUSANDS of real artists who spent thousands of hours improving their craft who struggle to make a decent living? She lacks humility and insight, big time, which are a necessity for any artist, but especially tattoo artist.
Used to be an apprentice, my entire tattoo kit (machines, needles, fake skin, station supplies, ink, even decor lol) was $500. When I saw she was asking for $5000K towards her kit alone I just had to laugh.
I live in the most expensive county in Michigan and I don't know a single artist that costs that much. Then again, all the artists I know love to talk shit about this whole situation. The shop has a reputation...
Also Isnt South bend in Indiana?
yeeeeep also in Michigan, and I know these people. Yikes.
@@betsypajamas4896South Bend is down in Mishawaka -- I think that area crosses state line and connects MI and IN
I don't quite like the comparison to college or university because what you pay for is quite different. It's one thing to pay to sit in a classroom or lab and it's another to be essentially doing unpaid labour. Also you can be paid to go to school. In Canada, if you are doing a thesis-based Masters or a PhD, you will be paid (not a lot, about $15,000 CAD for a Masters)
Exactly! They aren’t comparable and neither are nursing Externships that some people mentioned.
...what about that blueberry thing was worth going viral? She's so incredibly unremarkable ôo
That’s what I was wondering too, glad I wasn’t the only one 😂
Infantilization of women appeals to a very specific group of people. That group of people are, unsurprisingly, commonly found on apps that are heavily used by children/teenagers. They view and share the video a lot, and it spreads from there.
Here's my problem with this apprentice. Same thing people are having a problem with the internship. You're doing all of this work. No, your work, but other people's work too. And you're there for 6 months to a year and you get paid nothing that's slave labor. Over here in the US people have been arguing this for sometime. Just because something is traditional doesn't make it right.
I can somewhat understand unpaid apprenticiships even if they are an old and outdated practice. But PAYING $5K FOR ONE?? Youre *paying* ro do unpaid labor....
I feel like another argument against the “not all surgeons get surgery” is that most surgery is not elective whereas all tattoos are elective. Either way, love the video! Thanks for keeping those of us who refuse to download TikTok on the tattoo TikTok drama 😆
Yeah how does that work? Not having received surgery is a blessing as it means you are healthy. I know some ppl get forced to be tattooed but thats still not the same at all.
But on the flip side I'd def have more trust in a cosmetic surgeon that has cosmetic procedures/surgeries done.
California is the 3rd largest state in America and you're telling me she has to move to *Michigan* to get a new apprenticeship. Like, fuck all the way off with that.
That speaks more volumes than anything. If you HAVE to move 3/4 across the country to find work, you may be the issue.
Literally lmao. I live in a big city in Texas and there's areas in the city that has several tattoo shops on one block! I'm sure Cali has similar spots like that. I'm never far from a tattoo shop.
To let you know, she's still showing 0 tattooing on anything, only some decent drawn art and 2 posts about getting engaged, as of 3.18.24 at like 11pm PST
@@getschwifty5271 and yes, she could have gone a few miles away to another shop. There's plenty. ✨if she wanted to tattoo she would✨, but she's just a SM manager at best and still playing dress up tattoo artist
exactly!! there’s probably 100+ shops in the bay area alone.
Still flabberghasted that the US (and UK too?! That true?) thinks unpaid apprenticeships will result in skilled workers. That means only those with financial means or the herculean strength to work several jobs can do it. Wild af to me
Actually it’s illegal in the US to have unpaid internships unless they fit very specific criteria but people do them “under the table” I guess you could say
Okay, so I'm not a tattooer or a tattoo apprentice, but I'm getting a bodysuit worked on, so I've been in the shop every month for over two years now, and I've been paying attention and I think about things. A good apprenticeship isn't just about learning the technical skill of learning how to apply a tattoo and associated skills, it's learning how to run a tattoo shop, so they know what's up if they ever want to open their own shop, or they know what to look for if they join another shop, and it's about building good habits so that the hygiene standards in the shop are maintained and that keeping everything sanitary becomes second nature, and it's about learning how to communicate effectively with clients and also set reasonable boundaries and expectations, because some clients are real wild. A good mentor should be preparing their apprentice to move on someday and be successful, which means that they actually do need to know all of that 'shop manager' stuff. It's very much an important part of tattooing, if you want to have control over your own career.
Yes!! This right here. The technical application of a tattoo is the last part. The easier part tbh. There are a lot of moving parts in successfully completing an apprenticeship. I just graduated my own apprenticeship on 12/1. Learning to manage clients, the art, composition, finances, safety protocols- the list goes on. You absolutely hit the nail on the head 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Usually I am on the same page with you but in this, no. Matt doesn't come across as clout hungry at all. He shut down the speculation about letting Jenna go quickly because he has a shop to protect. Also, jumping on tattoo gate was a very shrewd business move. Again, less about clout and fame hunger, and more about business. The video about the job requirements, while probably about Jenna, if you take Jenna out of the picture, this is just a good video about working at a tattoo shop. The biggest problem A MASSIVE RED FLAG is apprenticeships are paid. All employment is paid. It doesn't matter what Matt thinks, he's breaking the law. I'd say he's trying to cover his ass. He should look into employment law where he is. Maybe the tattoo community is unknowingly exploitative - the exploited becomes the exploiter. Not okay tattoo crew.
100% agree. I mean it was even mentioned a few times that staff left Matt’s store due to bullying from Jenna’s posts… so not only did he have to shut down speculations but also back up his staff and go into defence mode…
I don't think he handled this wrong at all but he also didn't come across as very likeable to me tbh. There def is some pettiness coming from him
Honestly wtf is up with Americans and unpaid internships/apprenticeships. I have had three instances of unpaid labour in my life. Two were volunteer work, one was a trial shift for a job (legal in Australia). You pay a reduced wage to an apprentice that increases as they continue until they finish. And the government will give you benefits for being an apprentice like reduced car registration fees. Having an industry standard of unpaid labour is shady af
Industries with required unpaid internships / training (not just shadowing but also generative work), for 500-2,000 hours: social work, mental health counseling, psychology, dieticians, child life, and those are just roles in healthcare that I'm personally aware of. Tattooing is not unique in this respect. The training, supervision, etc the employer offers is time they could be generating income (i.e. seeing more clients) and so it is a potential loss; what the intern brings in via labor contributions often does not cover this time. Interns are not always legally employees under the U.S. fair labor standards act, depending on whether the intern or employer is the primary beneficiary of the arrangement.
i agree and its wild seeing americans argue that because you pay for culinary school or nursing school that means tattoo apprentices shouldnt be paid. like you guys do realise there are countries where all education is completely free? like it SHOULD be. everyone should have equal opportunity to get any profession they want regardless of if they live in poverty or in a mansion. my countrys government even pays students to study because its not fair to expect students to have a job while going to school. so its funny watching americans use their unfair and gross educational system as a point as if theyre doing something lmao.
Just because it's industry standard doesn't mean it's legal, in California and several other states it isn't legal to accept unpaid interns without being affiliated with a recognized college/university.
But the difference is that people who go to school for a particular job aren’t forced to keep the school clean without pay. I realise tattoo shops work differently with how people are paid than most other jobs but making the person who isn’t making money clean up after you is just exploitation. I get it’s been done this way for a long time, that doesn’t make it good or okay.
They don't clean the school because you're paying thousands. They are cleaning shops because it's work trade. I worked at my beauty school to pay for part of education, and BTW all students in beauty do clean rooms etc. Because that's expected in salons too.
I went to collage for hairstyling and make up, I paid for it like any other university in my country, I was expected to buy all of the tools and clean my working space every time, along with sweeping the floor If we gave our models haircuts. Just because your school doesn’t require it, doesn’t mean it’s the same for each profession
@@discodeaky8225 cleaning your own workspace and what mess you’ve made to me makes total sense, being expected to keep the whole space clean outside of your own mess isn’t fair to me unless you’re being paid. The cleaning would be done in a tattoo shop whether they have an apprentice or not, so if you’re taking the chance to have the person who doesn’t get paid do the cleaning while you have them it’s exploitation.
@@lunacco but the cleaning in a tattoo shop has to be done by someone, and would be done by someone actually making money if they don’t have an apprentice. So to use the person who doesn’t make anything is exploitative.
@@stephaniecutting9223 its a trade off, they get paid in experience like who do you think pays for the supplies they use plus most tattoo artist take care of the space they use so the most they do is ether taking care of the front/moping and learning how to clean the supply's they use
It's always been funny to me how little art she actually posts. She's a content creator far more than she is a (tattoo) artist.
That also conveniently ties into the fact that she doesn't have any tattoos. Look, I'm an apprentice and I only have 1 tattoo right now (I'm picky and poor lol, I'll get more over the years), I'm not expecting people to be covered. But it's odd to me to want to cover other people in your art, but not want any on your own body. How can you like tattoos so much that you want to make your career out of it, but not want any yourself?
Exactly. Having tattoos shows to me (a client) that you are at least as passionate about tattoo art/culture as I am. I get it, there are people who might have medical conditions that make it hard/impossible for them to get tattoos - I’m not talking about those people. I mean people who apparently LOVE tattoos and tattooing and CAN get them but just choose not to. And no one should HAVE to get them, but I also don’t HAVE to patronize their business either. 🤷🏼♀️
When I was considering becoming a tattooer and was having drawing sessions with one of my artists, I asked her EVERYTHING- the cost, the time, the tasks, etc. Seems like Jenna didn’t ask the right questions before she jumped into apprenticeship.
You're a better person than me, Lauren, because to me even her initial cutesy tiktoks were extremely annoying. In my experience people who want others to baby and fawn over them get really intense when not getting their way.
What’s bizarre to me is in the UK apprentices DO get paid. Tattoo apprenticeships don’t but if you go for an apprenticeship in any other field you’ll get a wage. I don’t understand why it’s any different for the tattoo industry. (Luckily, I don’t want to be a tattoo artist).
In the U.S. you pay to go to school, but you definitely don't take out trash and work become a volunteer employee. Even in a vocational school. The tattoo industry runs a shady business because they aren't regulated. People are definitely being taken advantage of by not knowing their rights.
re: the surgeons not getting surgery, to me that's way different. surgery is hardly a choice, it's more of a medical emergency, unlike getting a tattoo, which is always a choice. to me it's like getting my hair coloured by someone who for example, has never dyed their hair. different!
Elective surgery exist lol .
Completely agree with this!
cosmetic surgery is always a choice though. would you only trust a cosmetic surgeon who's had procedures done on themselves?
Most cosmetic surgeons HAVE had work themselves. And yes, I would absolutely prefer a cosmetic surgeon who has work done themselves perform surgery on me. But again, surgery is life and death and tattoo is not. You can absolutely be a little pickier with something that doesn't threaten your life like surgery does.
And as I've said in other comments, I don't think comparing surgeons to tattoo artists is a valid comparison at all.
@@fawn2911Most of them do; it's good advertising. If I walk in and the receptionist is both gorgeous and an example of the doctor's work, my confidence in their skill goes up.
In Australia, paid apprenticeships are the standard in all industries. Apprentices and trainees are paid at a lower rate, typically a % of adult minimum wages. Yes there is a learning element to it, but the shop/business is still getting labour out of the deal (cleaning, social media management, etc). I think unpaid internships, apprenticeships or traineeships are crazy and unfair on the apprentice. A trade school/university doesn't expect the students to do any work for them for free.
Not to mention, if youre a "mature age apprentice" here, you get paid more than a younger apprentice of the same level. The logic being, I guess, that a 30yo has more life skills, and is more responsible than a 16yo, so youre not having to teach them quite as much. Plus, a 30yo likely has more responsibilities and expenses that mean they need a higher wage to justify taking on an apprenticeship to being with - a 16yo living at home with no debt can scrape by on less money than a 30yo who has rent and a car payment and a spouse at home with the baby.
Im in australia and was in a tattoo apprenticeship a year and a half ago - it was unpaid, which majority of tattoo apprenticeships are unpaid. Just a bit of insight if anyone's curious. 🧐
I mean yes students arent required to work at the university/trade school in exchange for an education, they generally have to... Work 1-3 jobs outside of school in order to pay the university. I would work unpaid cleaning at a fancy university for an education. Then my $ from other jobs dont disapear into the university's pockets.
Im not defending unpaid labor and I actually believe education and training should be way more accessible if not outright free. Definitely dismantle barriers like class and income for a great/prestigious education.
But it doesnt make sense the way our system is set up because then the mentor is doing actually free labor. Or actively paying to teach someone. Teaching is a real job and deserves compensation. Unless your mentor is bad this is an exchange of labor. And the mentor should be accommodating about schedules so that the apprentice can work to pay bills.
As an artist is so wack when matt said "you get paid in opportunity" in regard to apprenticeship. Thats like saying "I'll pay you in exposure" to artists. It's still a job and we still have bills to pay, what good is opportunity if I end up homeless or starving before I get that chance? I understand it's not quite a 1-1 comparison, but tattoo apprentices are doing more than just learning, they're working there too (also there's different apprenticeship programs out there that *do* pay their apprentices so I don't see why that can't be the same here).
i completely disagree with the notion that an apprentice shouldnt be paid. this economy is not conducive to any sort of uncompensated labor, and you might say “well shes getting a tattoo education.” but in MANY other intern type positions, they are still being paid SOMETHING in ADDITION to the experience theyre getting. i just 100% disagree with not being paid for any work you do. minimum her gas if she commutes to and from the shop and a percentage of her rent monthly should be paid by the shop. to have to pick up another job that pays enough (which is most likely emotionally and/or physically taxing) and ALSO be expected to do all of these other tasks at the tattoo shop AND have a PROPER tattoo education with no pay,,, im not having that.
edit: this is ONLY about the unpaid part btw, everything else is Yikes
Here’s the thing, teaching someone to tattoo is extra work for tattoo artists. Therefore, it’s something that a lot of tattoo artists might not want to do if they are not compensated with free labor/an apprenticeship fee. So sadly I don’t think that unpaid apprenticeships will die out anytime soon.
@@rachelr.5171 I agree that a lot of artists cannot afford to pay their apprentices, and this may be an unpopular opinion, but in that case they simply should not have an apprentice. There are so many businesses in general that say "well we can't really afford to pay more than just minimum wage or give bonuses or even compensate you fairly." and i believe thats a business model of a failing company. if you cant afford to do something the right way for an extended period of time, then you shouldnt be in business period.
In the UK at least any apprenticeship in any industry should be paid. I have no experience with tattoo apprenticeships but I don't know of any reason why they should have different rules to any other apprenticeships.
I think the idea that no one should complain about an unpaid internship because it’s “industry standard” is a bad one, lots of things are industry standard and exploitative.
Also paid apprenticeships are a thing in the UK for a lot of industries the person gets paid less, goes to college every so often and completes a qualification which increases their pay, and that seems like it has much more accountability than a tattoo shop that can keep you doing unpaid grunt work until they feel like you’re ready to start being paid for your time
To be fair the difference between university students and something like an apprentice is uni students can have student loans financial aid but you don't get that with an apprenticeship.
One of the best tattoo artists I know, from my hometown, has no tattoos and she is absolutely amazing with black and grey photorealism… so I’m not at all against getting tattooed by someone without tattoos, as long as they are good at what they do, they follow hygiene and safety protocols, it’s all good for me. Their work will have to speak for itself
I've been trying to get into a tattoo apprenticeship for a bit now and I've been told I have to pay anywhere from $1,600 - $4,000 just to START to be an apprentice, and its a little wild out here. Personally, I feel safer with a artist who has tattoos, just personally.
do not pay for an apprenticeship! that is a huge red flag. the right mentor is out there and they will not charge you. you work for free for an education, that’s how it works so just be careful
@@scarfver I know, I've avoided those places. Found out one place I talked to, the guy put his last apprentice in the hospital. So, I'm still looking and in the mean time, I'm going to start practicing on fake skin and all that.
I want to become a piercer and have been researching a lot about the process and what I need to do. The price to even get started is absolutely mind boggling
Every time I have called a tattoo shop in America inquiring about an apprenticeship, they all have told me it costs 5 thousand dollars. I am shocked to read another commenter mentioned it is actually illegal!
The difference between paying a ridiculous amount of money for training at an institution vs a tattoo shop is at the very least there is some kind of security eg: transferable credits or if you fail/have to take time off you generally can come back. If you pay $5000 for a tattoo apprenticeship and the mentor decides to drop you for no reason or you have issues that require a long break and they wont take you back or anything else you are out $5000 with maybe a bit of experience of show for it but that's it.
Not having tattoos is one thing, but I thought it was odd that her insta has next to no art. If she’s got a degree in fine art and wants to be an artist wouldn’t you have the art on display? Like how do people know if they like/want your art if you’re not displaying it. It’s weird to me.
Her infantilizing herself like she isn’t pushing 30 (if she actually is younger whoops don’t care) is the grossest thing I’ve ever seen and the fact she doesn’t even show her art work despite being a literal artistic field is so alarming
The whole "cute widdle baby" act makes me want to implode/vomit with cringe firstly. Secondly if she has a fine art degree and millions of followers she can make money without a gofundme/illegal raffle grift (raffles held for personal gain are illegal pretty much globally FYI). Thirdly I have made several big moves in my life including Australia to the UK, and all of them added together wouldn't come to $15k. Lastly, unpaid "apprenticeships" as this guy described are also illegal and I'm kinda disappointed at anyone perpetuating the idea that unpaid labour is ok, especially in a situation where there is no formal or transferrable qualifaction. If this is "normal" in the tattoo industry then they are just exploiting young hopefuls for free cleaners/receptionists/social media managers which is gross af.
The cute widdle baby act is pretty annoying- having a cute aesthetic is one thing but infantilising yourself is demeaning.
Agreed with the unpaid labour aspect, maybe it was doable in the past but cost of living and insufficient minimum wages makes this increasingly unfeasible for someone to do as a second job.
I always interpreted that tradition as being a way of repaying the professional for the time and expertise it takes to teach someone a trade. Like this situation makes clear, you could pay $5k instead (pretty reasonable compared to any college or trade certifications) but think about history, here: a lot of kids back in the day who were interested in tattooing or part of the scenes that accepted or even glorified tattoos *weren't rich*, they were members of working-or-lower-class subcultures. Feels like people forget this because of how mainstream and 'cool' tattoos are now, but 20-30 years ago having even beautiful and artistic tattoos was seen as trashy or 'scary'. The people who got their apprenticeships then are probably just trying to 'pass on a good deed' that they themselves benefited from.
honestly bizarre how people didnt see this originally the same people acting suprised are the same people who instantly said she was a victim when she got fired despite no information even being discussed before the whole situation happened
It was so weird how everyone was talking about how "adorable" and "cute" she is... she's a grown woman??
Agreed. It's not cute, it's infantile and annoying.
I think anyone can be adorable or cute but there is a weird vibe to her that comes off as she wants to be perceived as innocent and use it in a manipulative way but I’ve known people who I would definitely describe as adorable 🤷🏻♀️
Saame I’m genuinely wondering why people think that’s cute
After a stressful Christmas this is what I need. Diner after work with a new awesome vid. Thank you
🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
Actually in the uk it's required to pay an apprentice. It's usually less than minimum wage so on average it's maybe £120 per week, maybe a little less, maybe a little more but apprenticeships are 100% paid in the uk. Pretty sure unpaid apprenticeships are illegal in the uk unless it's strictly volunteer work or work shadowing?
I've found the following - An intern is entitled to the National Minimum Wage if they count as a worker. Employers cannot avoid paying the National Minimum Wage if it's due by: saying or stating that it does not apply. making a written agreement saying someone is not a worker or that they're a volunteer.
And - There are different rates of pay for apprentices depending on your age and what year of your apprenticeship you’re in.
Your employment contract should confirm your rate of pay.
Aged 16 to 18
The current National Minimum Wage rate for an apprentice is £5.28 per hour.
Aged 19 or over and in your first year
The current National Minimum Wage rate for an apprentice is £5.28 per hour.
Aged 19 or over and have completed your first year
You’re entitled to the National Minimum Wage or National Living Wage rate for your age.
www.gov.uk/become-apprentice/pay-and-conditions
www.jobteaser.com/en/advices/internships-know-your-rights#:~:text=An%20unpaid%20internship%20is%20legal,themselves%2C%20only%20shadowing%20an%20employee)
NOW! As for a TATTOO apprenticeship in the uk I don't think they are paid as standard BUT they really should be because, unfortunately, you can not claim any sort of funding or student funding for a tattoo apprenticeship in the uk.
Most tattoo artists treat an apprenticeship as education, fine fair enough, but it's not education like a uni or college which means you legally can not claim student finance or student loans to help you survive while training. You also CAN NOT claim universal credit or any benefits because DWP considers you as working and in employment despite the fact you are not getting paid. Source - I asked my tattoo artists apprentice 😂
This doesn’t apply for tattoo apprenticeships sadly as it’s up to the discretion of the studio / artist as it can be seen as just education and you don’t get paid to go to school 😮💨 there’s a few articles about it.
The US has a problem with unpaid labor that may not be the same in the UK. Unpaid internships are only legal under very specific conditions. I'm wondering if tattoo apprenticeships in the US are more time consuming than those in the UK? From what was described as expected (the labor, cleaning, media management, etc), it sounds like that was functionally a job and an apprentice may not be able to work "day job" while apprenticing? I'm curious.
This situation really gets to me on several levels. I am an artist, got my BFA as well. Her entitlement is so irritating, especially for all the creatives working their asses off for their passions. It's not something everyone can do because it IS HARD. I worked up until the day before I had major brain surgery, if this is something you really want, you make it happen without go fund me.
I think starting a go fund me is fine, no one is being forced to donate, but it’s not at all right to be promoting people to donate by waving a free tattoo over their head when the platform isn’t for that. I do think it’s scummy though.
As a person that did a massage apprenticeship, the way it worked for me when I did it, is I learned and studied for a month before starting working on clients, and I worked for a $30 (plus maybe tip) per hour, and working 10-24 hours a week depending on booking, usually around 20 hours. I continued studying, paying per month, I think it was $200 the first month, and $400 once I started working. My work payed my tuition to my mentor/teacher, and my rent to the massage center I worked at, and more. It lasted a year, then I took a (expensive) test and graduated with my license. Then I charged $60 an hour for a massage. If I was still working today, I’d be charging $75 and hour. I don’t miss my hands hurting slightly all the time, but I do miss the people and the good work I did.
Legit hiding under my heating blankets with some cinnamon rolls. I am ready ♡
You look amazing as always 💖
For me personally, being tattooed by someone without tattoos it’s not a dealbreaker. My coworker is also a part-time tattoo artist, and so far I’ve gotten two tattoos from them because I love their work. I also plan on getting more tattoos from them in the future. They themselves do not have any tattoos, and I’m unsure if They want to get tattoos in the future. That’s not my decision, but I also don’t care if they get any or not.
I get tattoos from them because I love their artwork, and they are good at what they do. It’s as simple as that for me.
(I made this comment only about 8 minutes into the video, But I just wanted to make this comment really quick)
One of my artists has only one tattoo herself, yet she creates such beautiful designs and is a supremely talented tattoo artist. She mentioned her first tattoo hurt significantly. And some of them do! So I can completely understand if someone, anyone, doesn't want a tattoo. I didn't trust her less because she wasn't covered in tattoos. Her demeanour and talent spoke for themselves. 💕
My artist charges a little over $1300 per day rate BUT let me tell you. She is worth every penny and is so fast! I think her half day rate is $700. I love her and gladly pay the price however tattoos are no longer "cheap." Especially in America, in fact the price of tattoos has persuaded people not to get inked!
I have a few feelings about this story:
Regarding apprenticeships/internships, I personally dislike unpaid apprenticeships and internships and find that often they are a way to get labor from an entry level person. My husband is an engineer who had to do some "internships" during his college, but they were all paid. I think that if things were more standardized, and people could be guaranteed that they would all learn the same things, that would be different and the college/trade school example could apply, but in this case you really are at the mercy of the person you have as a mentor insofar as what you learn and the environment and so on. Additionally, as we saw in the tattoo gate situation, how easy it was for artists to "spread the word" erroneously about that one client, so the same could happen to an apprentice in their area in this current system.
About the gofundme and all of that, I have been in groups that do mutual aid and so I don't immediately turn my nose up at helping others for things like this. What I do dislike is that she seems to expect this to fall into her lap, rather than to do the work to obtain what she says is her goal - a career in this industry. If that's the case, I'm sure there are ways to do so other than moving halfway across the country and begging for others to fund that move.
I’ve really been wanting to watch a long video on this topic. Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together.💕
remember when gofundme was used only for emergencies and not paying for a random girls vacation
How exactly is it a vacation if your moving to live ??? Your just being hateful lol , the fact gofundme exist for medical emergencies is already dystopian to begin with , but someone just asking to money to move to get a new job is your big beef ??
@@yassine8935She went on a trip to Hawaii after she started the gofundme….thats what the commenter is talking about.
@@yassine8935so you’re saying we should be using gofundme to help a girl with millions of followers move to another state, instead of people with medical emergencies?? stop jumping on her hog bro, she begged for donations and a month later she was posting her on vacation and buying a new pet 😂😂
@@yassine8935 She went on vacation to hawaii. Then to ask for money from other people to pay her way to move and her apprenticeship is way out of line. She wants the position without putting in the work. It's a slap in the face to anyone that works hard to get the position that she wants on a silver platter.
I work in surgical training and some softer-skill courses do have surgeons experiencing the patient side, such as practicing plastering techniques for broken bones on each other. It's a really good way for them to develop a sense for how an ill-fitting cast can feel for a patient. I wouldn't really want to draw a one-to-one line between tattoo artists and surgery, but most things have some common ground
He’s likely violating federal and/or state labor law by not paying his apprentices. These illegal practices are rampant in the industry. He obviously needs to be paying apprentices who are CLEANING, MANAGING INVENTORY, and doing other typical employee work. Tattoo shop owners who do this are just asking to have their lives and businesses fucked up. And they deserve it.
In UK law any apprentice HAS to be paid it’s a lower rate weekly. However at 21 or 1 year experience and you turn 21, it’s full pay STUDIO’s rely on students being uninformed
On her not having any tattoos- I get the whole surgeon argument, but this is a creative service we're talking about.
I look at it more like if I were to go to a hairdresser, and they had unstyled hair, a makeup artist with no make up, a fashion designer with no style... it's not NECESSARY, but it matters.
The surgeon analogy doesn’t quite fit. However I do think that when a surgeon has been a patient themselves it makes them BETTER at the bedside. So it can only make them better artists… they have to know what it feels like to have something on your body forever to understand the gravity of the trust we put in them. Just my 2 cents.
the way her new mentor has 'tattoos for leaders' in their instagram bio...it's giving 'alpha male' type energy, the sort of person who'd join an MLM. Makes me cringe
They were in the same program as that Canadian chick. The same bullshit
@@deltasaves Ahh, that makes a lot of sense
I have a feeling she's going down this road because even before the internet turned on her, she probably couldn't get a apprenticeship. Anyone can look her up and would call the shop for a reference. Most local places are likely familiar with her and probably wouldn't take her on. So she leaned into the social media game and found a shop that cares more about money and clout than ethics or industry standards.
I had been working towards being a tattoo artist for a few years but since I have no tattoos I kept getting told I wouldn't get far in the industry (fair), though my reason for having none is due to skin issues, so while it SUCKS I do totally get why people would think its strange, because you dont really think about peoples skin or body image when you see no tattoos
My only contention, as an Australian, is the whole unpaid apprenticeship thing....Unpaid is the key word here.... Where I live apprentices get paid for their time, even in the tattoo industry, they get around $30 an hour. They do all the same things that American tattoo apprentices do, but they, rightly, get paid for their time too. Some places might not pay their apprentices, I haven't asked any of my tattoo artist friends about this tbh, but apprentices should get paid too.
Thanks for the video! Always inreresting to get the tea 💞
Not getting paid for an apprenticeship is a weird concept to me as a German. Since 2020 there has even been a minimum wage for vocational training here. Now, I don't think "tattoo artist" is recognised as a vocation (yet), so I can't speak to that industry. It just feels weird to me when I compare it to something like learning to become a hairdresser and one of them has to get paid (by law) and the other doesn't 🤷♀ (Edit: College is of course also free here, so I might just have a very skewed perspective on education lol)
I'm sorry but can we not give Matt a pass just because he did what was right for his business, he is still actively feeding into the drama by posting and making cheeky statements. I'm sorry but I'd never want to work for an employer who gives into internet clout by tearing down people I recently employed. It is not a good look for your business.
Yeuuup. And comparing it to nursing school is a joke. The students in nursing school aren’t required to clean the whole classroom, order and maintain supplies and manage the program’s instagram unpaid.
He is being a bit snarky, I will agree but to me it seems he is just trying to defend his choices (Jenna being let go) and his staff from the bullying they have copped due to Jenna and her videos… I mean, it was even said in the video that he had staff leave due to bullying that came from Jenna’s videos.
I would be a lot more aggressive then Matt was if some self-infantilised woman was causing my business issues because she didn’t wanna be professional and just wanted to make “look at how cute and quirky I am!” TikTok’s…
Dichotomy is pronounced “die-cot-ah-me” FYI!! Loved this coverage - I was waiting for a quality piece overviewing the situation.
Matt being silent then doing that tiktok because he knew she would mess up her image is a whole mood.
He's my hero.
Why do people think that major medical surgery is comparable to superficial body modification in terms of practitioner experience? It’s the straw man argument of all straw man arguments.
I think my only question about tattoo artists not having tattoos is their reasoning for tattooing. Why would someone be against tattooing themselves but be fine with tattooing others? The tattoo/piercing industry is a highly personal one, for the tattooer and client. To me, in my opinion, a tattoo artist with no tattoos doesn’t have the same connection to the profession that tattooed artists do. The tattooing process is meaningful even if the tattoo itself has no meaning. That shared experience creates a connection between the artist and client that an artist with no tattoos can never really experience. I just don’t know how I would relate to a tattoo artist with no tattoos 🤷🏻♀️
Speaking about unpaid apprenticeships, I see them similarly as unpaid internships. I was fortunate to have 3 unpaid internships that my parents supported me through that have helped me to get to where I am in my career. Many - most in fact - in the US, are not fortunate enough to be financially stable to not be paid for their work. It is work. It’s education but it’s labor as well. It creates an unfair market, particularly in the US system where we have much fewer social systems than say the UK. Our poverty disparity is much higher. It’s likely that many potential tattoo artists lose out on the opportunity to become tattoo artists because they cannot afford to work for free. This is not Matt’s fault by any means. It’s a system that was in place long before he was a tattoo artist. But he, and other artists who do apprenticeships, need to examine how they interact with these systems. Because they can choose to do a paid apprenticeship. I’ve pushed every place I’ve ever worked at to pay interns. It hasn’t always worked but it’s important.
For the record I know that some medical specialists do in fact have to practice on each other so they know what it feels like. Like the doctor doing my EMG talked with me about having to go through the procedure himself to know what the shocks would feel like, and how much better I was taking it than any of them.
Yeah and cops have to be tazed during police academy so they know what it feels like and aren’t likely to use the taser without good reason
Tysm for this comprehensive vid! I want to know the drama, but I don’t want to do the deep dive myself ❤
You don't have to be a painter to make frames. You don't have to be a fisherman to cook a fish. You don't have to be an artist to be an interior decorator.
I have no issues with her not having tattoos herself. HER BODY, HER CHOICE. I have zero problems with that.
All the other shit? Yeah, problems there.
Edit: I will say that the stuff Matt was expecting her to do in the shop was a little much. She's responisible for their social media account? How is that learning anything about tattooing?
I do understand managing shop supplies and restocking stations, but she definitely shouldn't be managing ordering supplies. Maybe making lists about how much of things are left, but if she's actually ordering things, that's an actual job and not something an apprentice should be doing.
Yep. Definitely exploitative. I couldn't watch him speak after a while, insufferable.
A counter argument against someone needing tattoos to be a good tattoo artist would be mine (and honestly every other woman's opinion I've spoken to about this) on male Vs female obgyn. I'd much prefer a man than a woman. The women have all been so much rougher and less compassionate than the men have that I've encountered. They didn't have a vagina and still were so delicate. Ofcourse, a very personal experience, but I don't think you NEED something to understand it. There's enough people to learn how to do it right from, to do a great job.
Also tons of midwives out there who didn't have children themselves. Also are tattoo artists with tatooos automatically good? No. This channel alone keeps showing us awful stuff, either shitty tattoos visually or awful for the client's health.
@@Shirumoonmidwives are a bad example as in most states you don't need more than a first aid class to call yourself a midwife. It's not a protected medical degree, has regulation , and why they're not allowed in most hospitals/birthing centers unless they're also an OBGYN nurse
male obgyns creep me out. sorry
Im cozy and happy that a new video of yours is up! Thank you and merry xmas dear
I definitely wouldn't get a tattoo by someone with no tattoos and I wouldn't get a peircing by someone with no peircings because they don't know they don't know what it feels like and just doesn't feel right.
Pronounced DIE-COT-O-ME
My "main" tattoo artist only has tattoos on his legs, so in Canada he looks mostly untattooed, still is a pretty great tattoo artist. Wouldn't faze me even if he didn't have any, as long as he can acknowledge that it hurts and everyone has a different pain tolerance. Like would you get your ribs tattooed by someone who has tattoos everywhere except their ribs? Cause technically each part hurt differently
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if this was the girls plan the whole time. She comes off as someone pretending to be passionate about being a tattoo artist, but it feels very performative. It's not due to her not having any tattoos, it's just... there's something off and I can't put my finger on it. I've known 2 people who wanted to be tattoo artists and had apprenticeships and all they did was draw, all the time. Like, 100 page sketchbooks completely full every other week PLUS canvas paintings. You said yourself, her social media is essentially devoid of art. It's like she's in love with the IDEA of being a tattoo artist cause it's "quirky and fun" but doesn't want to pay the dues that every other artist does. I could be wrong, but that's how she comes off.
Oh yeah, I managed to catch my roommate on his way to work to ask him about apprenticeship fees. He's been tattooing for 25-30 years now. He told me that he paid to apprentice back in the 80s, and he didn't think it was an odd thing at all, which surprised me. He did mention that the more someone does around a shop in terms of cleaning and restocking, etc, can affect the amount. He said there's a bare minimum that an apprentice needs to do because it IS part of the job but he's known younger artists that have worked out deals with his friends that own shops to do extra cleaning and whatnot in exchange for a lower fee. Which makes sense, I guess you learn something new everyday :)
once again just gonna mention that where a lot of us live unpaid long term internships/apprenticeships are illegal so seeing stuff like this is quite.... off? appalling? exploitative? something like that, never mind the labour not related to what you're there for. saying it's like going to school and having to work on the side is fine and all until you realize that you're not going around cleaning the entire school and restocking whatever supplies or updating the schools website or socials. it's not equivalent at all. even if it is the industry standard doesn't mean it's not illegal or at the very least legally grey. personally I don't have a problem with starting a go fund me for something like that (I personally don't trust those kinds of things but to each their own) as long as you don't try to guilt trip or coerce people to donate. it should just be a "hey if you wanna help out you can tnx" and that's it. but the merch idea would probably be better, like choices have consequences and you should be prepared for that.