How is this deck "rad" to build? It has no hoops to jump trough. Just play all the things simic does best anyway: play ramp, draw cards, counter spells, play bombs way before everyone else and then combo your way to victory.
So glad that simic is getting the help it needs. Everyone knows that boros is the most powerful color combo, and that simic is the least. They finally got the help they needed. Other commanders in simic like tatyova and vanifar are straight garbage fire. Meanwhile, depala is a top tier competitive deck. Nice!
Zirda is good, but not busted and I know there are infinite mana combos with the fox. Winota is a pretty good Boros commander, but Zirda and Winota don’t compare to the 6 other busted simic commanders.
I’m sure somebody mentioned this. But you don’t need to untap the commander to use his ability again as Jumbo stated at one point. It’s an instant speed activation with no tapping necessary (except mana rocks/dorks)... 😜👍
@@raffiavedissian8425 Well for one this is an objectively better Thrasios. In Simic itself, Vannifar and Rashmi are both competetively viable, in their own different ways. Rashmi is a glacially slow control deck that trades 1 for 1 on everything while squeezing out card advantage. Vannifar is a Hulk pile that uses her birthing pod effect to power through the pieces. There's also a wealth of just solid very commanders in UG, in fact there's a disproportionate amount compared to other color pairings (even if they aren't tier one uber decks). Edric is very good, Momir Vig is very good, Uro is good, even Ezuri, Tatiyova and Pir/Toohy are good commanders. Even bad Simic commanders are still pretty decent.
A mix of both styles is how I went and it’s pretty strong. Cedh has a hard time dealing with creatures and permanents. Board wipes generally come in just toxic deluge and fire convenant. Built him with interaction and intruder alarm and he can win turn 2-3 off the two card combos or play the long game when you play sphynx, nezahal, Jin gitaxis and such. He’s very strong but simic in general is west due to lack of tutors for the actual win cons
Turn 1: ancient tomb =>sol ring , simic signet=>kinnan. Turn 2 :mox amber => basalt monolith=> activate kinnan=> certain eldrazi that activates for 20... win
that little snippet, right there at 1:41 is the very exact reason i will NEVER play against this Kinnan deck on Arena BTW~ He just casually activated that stupid ability on what... turn 4? ye, biiig nope XD
At this point I just scoop whenever I get put against Kinnan, Uro or Kiora. Especially if they're playing a bunch of counter magic. Also special shoutout to people playing teferi as their commander
@@laluckyman yea same. The simic decks are a dime a dozen. All do the same thing, been there done that. Most all of azorious decks get the insta-scoop as well. Same story, Niv-mizzet idem dito, and any 5-colour pile same honestly.
Quit being salty and play more interaction and or board wipes this deck relys on creatures and yes some mana rocks, but you still can destroy most of the decks board with a boardwipe.
This just in, generically good commander at two mana is highly competitive and good! Next up, red mana likes burn damage and black mana is good at creature removal! In all seriousness though, great video DJ! Always love the content you bring!
Definitely going eldrazi tribal with her, I mean pulling all the eldrazi from my deck onto the battlefield with infinite mana and the end of my opponents turn seems pretty good
Pulled this from a box on release day. Sitting in a binder because no one will want to play against it, haha. Also, I find decks like this to get stale after one game. I like putting effort into winning, not just do the same thing every game.
My favorite thing about Kinnan is how I'm literally just using him to make my Zaxama deck more broken and fun lmao. Make him my commander? Nah, I got INFINITE HYDRAS to produce.
I actually thought about building my first cEDH deck with Kinnan. I usually shy away from competitive because I hate playing combo, I generally prefer control or midrange-y decks with grindy ways to win, but this seems to be the type of combo I can get behind.
Was it really neccessary to print Kinnan? I doubt that those kinda commanders (K'rrik, Urza and all this busted new stuff) are healthy for the core edh community..
Kinnan... Kalamax... Haldan and Pako... I used to hate to see Muldratha and Omnath locus of rage. With them printing more and more busted commanders with every set, you have to go out of your way to play things that aren't busted. And the commanders that I used to think were busted suddenly seem fine. Commander was supposed to be a format where once you built a deck it was playable forever. Decks that I used to consider 8s on the power scale have diminished to 5s or 6s just due to power creep.
yes, I'm starting falling out of love with the format thanks to WotC pushing the power creep set after set: they're pushing EDH onto the way of Standard. Also, are these OP commanders even fun to built around? They have some much text and pretty much autopilot the player on how to easily take over or win the game. Do you rememeber the times when you picked that legendary creature with peculiar ability and start looking through the history of MtG to find any card that could make it work?
@@ROMANTIKILLER2 then play with a playgroup that doesn't want to build semi-competitive? If your playgroup shares the same sentiment that "power creep is ruining my games!" (even though it's likely how you built the deck, and not power creep. My OG Erebos, "Mono-green Rys," and Derevi midrange deck still work extremely well under all of this power creep. Only adding a few new cards here and there to improve upon it from new sets, AND most current improvements I'm looking for are actually _older._) then you should all take an agreement on the power level you want your decks to be. In a low power environment, these "op commanders" surely do look more powerful than your average commander. But keep in mind CEDH puts emphasis on the power of the deck if the commander itself isn't a combo piece. Sushi Hulk was entirely about Demonic Consultation + Thassa's Oracle and Flash+Hulk packages with interaction mixed in. Consultation Kess is about Consultation and the consistency Kess provides it. Sisay+Jegantha is about searching for Derevi+Najeela to win. The First Sliver is only there to provide a mana outlet for when you Food Chain combo off. While this might seem like a tangent, keep in mind that means the decks are built more powerful from the cards in the 99, not by the commander. Tymna and Kraum is a competitive Wheel and Deal deck, not because Tymna and Kraum are broken commanders... But because it has colors and is a strong deck. Kenrith is not a "super strong" commander like Kinnan. But he's competitive because he provides options through color, mana outlets, and resilience. In fact, I'd say Kenrith+Zirda does Kinnan's job better. I'd recommend tweaking your deck building up, and not blaming it on the "new op power creep commanders." OR talk with your playgroup so you all know a good level of power to strive for. And make sure you aren't saying "most acceptable ways to win" as a judge on power level, because there is much more to playing commander than creatures and swing. Johnny (not just combo players, but the silly deck builder and control players fall under this "category") needs his home too.
The one thing that puts me off about Kinnan, is that you might pay 7 mana's worth and only find 1 or 2 creatures that cost less or aren't very powerful. I know building the deck a certain way could help decrease the likelihood of this problem but I'm not overly sure how to go about that and it could likely still happen. Other than that he is good
Sarcastic comments aside, as a returning player, the fact that your posted decklist costs $1000 is upsetting. Guess i'll fire up the old inkjet and print myself a deck.
I always avoid more than 5 GOAT cards in my deck (above 10$) cos bro I have 4 decks I ain’t gonna just sell everything I have to get a Gaeas Cradle. Cos that’s always been the problem with magic
Maybe this opinion is unpopular, but I hated this card the moment I saw it. Simic of all combination did not need such a broken engine. This guy can basically produce infinite mana as early as T2 with some Grim/Basalt Monolith, and what is worse it also gives a place were to sink that mana with his activated ability, easiliy allowing to drop scary stuff like Eldrazis or Blightsteel Colossus on the battlefield, or Walking Ballista as DJ also said. Is it even fun to built around cards like this, Urza, etc.? Does WotC even consider the impact that OP cards like this can have in all formats? Or they do, but they're so willing to push the power creep more and more to try to onboard new people to start play Magic-Oh? Personally I'm concerned about the upcoming Commander Legends set, as I have the feeling (I hope to be wrong) that WotC will push the power level to the point of warping the format and making the majority of all older "normal" commanders from regular sets unplayable at the average table.
It’s not as OP as people think, simic isn’t a great color pairing. Lacks tutors to actually get win cons so you have to run a lot of draws to get the cards
Kinnan is just a *much* better version of Mayael the anima. A better version of Mayael is fine since while the card is beautiful it is pretty underpowered but it didn't have to be *that* good... Kinnan costs 1 less, amps up your mana production *and* doesn't need to tap to activate and "non-human" is a lot stronger than "power 5". I'd love to see some non UBx colors getting some love :D
Number one problem I have with Kinnan: you have to be degenerate as fuck to fight it. It's just one of those cards that immediately puts you into an ultimatum. If you think I'm playing against that with anything other than a bolt the bird/land destruction deck, you are mistaken. It's just one of those cards that's toxic as fuck in casual play and card shop magic is gonna get really unfun when you start having to fight degenerate strategies with degenerate strategies. Beyond that, strong competitive card I guess.
Can we put the word out to no longer call removal "interaction". It doesn't interact. It's reactive. It's a panic button. To be honest the only things that can interact are permanents. The alters, KCI, grinding station set up, maze of ith, and if you want removal so badly there's priest of the forgotten gods. All I see when someone plays instant speed removal, is them saying "no! You can't play magic"
LOL Oh Look another silly pushed Simic Infinite mana combo-mander. FNM when it returns is going to be like, ''You want to play Commander, what colours?'' ''Simic'' ''Yeah, your off your rocker mate I came for casual'' ''Simic is casual'' *echoes in an empty mall, cricket chirps. Why is this card pushed? Hmm, basically doubles non land mana sources (guess that is not enough?, too boring?) SO they add a mana sink to Kinnan with a high activation (No tap required) like it is hard to get to 7 mana activation despite, hmm IDK, having the (boring) ability to make basically double mana from non land sources! It is like these designers forgot the basic fundamentals of MTG design for glitzy pushed combos. Even if they had a modicum of restraint they would have Kinnan tap as part of the activation in turn forcing the player to have more set up BUT I guess that is not fun! :(
I think this is the wrong way of doing it, but keep in mind partners are all the rage competitively BECAUSE options are so much more important now. Mana is no longer something to constrain you, therefore there is no downside to running colors besides cost. So why _would_ you constain yourself to simic only if you can take Thrasios, only slightly worse in some cases than kinnan, and slap on two more colors and interact better. Run things like Teferi's protection, or demonic consultation. Or run Kenrith and just... Run whatever you want with a generally strong commander in the helm who fits any strategy. Again, pushing commanders like this is by far the worst way to do it imo. But it's not like kinnan is going to be any more popular than vannifar or Thrasios+tymna, or the aforementioned Kenrith. Or even non G+U using cedh decks, like Tymna+Kraum or similar.
@@MekanikKommandoh88 I don't specifically mean a Boros comm that is cEDH level and can go infinite. I just mean like fun to play at a decent poker level.
As I always say... Kinnan is balanced in that his art is more ugly than his card is powerful. He might see play in cedh since some of these players do not really care for that kind of stuff but otherwise Kinnan can just be played as a commander by blind people imo...
Mark my words, this card will need to be banned in a few weeks/ months. It does way to much for way too little downside. It’s incredibly easy to combo out on turn 2-4. I hate this card with a passion, there was absolutely no reason to print a better Rofellos (which, unsurprisingly, is banned in commander) in a standard product or even at all
Sulaiman Hyatt-Butt none of which are as cheap and as consistent, the only thing that comes close to kinnan is urza, a comp commander, and that’s one less color, 2 extra mana, can’t do top deck manipulation for its second ability, and doesn’t infinite combo as easily, and thrasios, which in this case is now a direct down grade since kinnan is a more compact combo piece. Rofelos taps to add mana equal to the number of forests you control, with no other advantage and is banned. It’s arguably better to have nonland cards tap for an additional mana as it’s ten times easier to combo off with.
@@guisseppimelon8224 its still a creature so you can still kill it with spot removal and boardwipes. Its not getting banned because non land permanents are easier to interact with. Plus this card is still new it would be unwise to make a ban out of a new card that has incredible value they would of pre banned this card just like lutri so that they saved people from buying the card. This is probably the big reason why this card isnt gonna get banned. Its because it too new and very hyped at value it would be unwise to ban it and it turn out people would of just wasted money and time to invest on the card and this would cause the community to backlash at RC.
I do agree tho with you that this card is strictly better than rofelos and if its banned then so should this but the RC have already banned alot of cards recently. And it would just cause panic and uncertainty for peopel considering about investing powerful exciting cards released in future and other cards that fall under similar categories.
1. Selvalla is "strictly better than Rofellos" in many ways and isn't banned. 2. Thrasios is better than Kinnan because of color advantage (never play a partner without a second partner.) Interactivity is _huge_ in commander, especially CEDH, and Kinnan just gets less of it by only being two colors (even if they are the best.) 3. You don't really care about the fact he's cheaper. You aren't trying to play your combo piece before you can go off, you're trying to protect it first. Imagine playing kinnan turn 2 with a single mana dork or rock. But then he gets Ass Trophied or Abrupt Decayed. Sure the fact he's cheap helps you play them quicker if you drew the combo early, but you don't build a deck for the best scenario possible. You build it trying to take into account some of the worst.
This Commander isnt good, simic is the color of lands not ramp artifacts. On the other hand pay 7 mana for top 5 lucks u hits mostly creatures that are under 7 mana so its not worth and sometime u ca hit nothing. There are more and better simic/commanders
He goes infinite with Basalt Monolith. You can literally win the game with those two cards combined with Finale of Devastation or Jace/Oracle/LabMan and an X mana draw spell LOL. He’s insanely good what are you smoking?
"Quite" competitive? Try *TERRIFYINGLY* competitive. A 2CMC commander that super charges your ramp sources AND gives you the power to dig through your deck? Kinnan is what Nikya of the Old Ways SHOULD'VE been AND THEN some 🤣
Car is dope, but good simic legendaries are getting boring, and this is my least favorite art, possibly ever, in modern Magic. I cannot play this card. Ever.
![Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy | Combo - The Brewery [S03E13]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83AzSZqxLic/mqdefault.jpg)
>Is "Insert Simic legendary" the most powerful legendary out of "insert new set".
You shouldnt need to ask this question anymore, Jumbo.
Winota was in ikoria too
Kinnan Druid Tribal with Helix Pinnacle as the win con lets gooo
the lame thing about these pushed commanders is that they will be super rad to build with but no one will want to shuffle up against them
Speak for yourself. I'm confident in the decks I build. Heart of the cards, baby!
This card is pretty push but not surprised Simic got another good commander card.
How is this deck "rad" to build? It has no hoops to jump trough. Just play all the things simic does best anyway: play ramp, draw cards, counter spells, play bombs way before everyone else and then combo your way to victory.
Derek Walter he’s talking about playing against the new pushed legends because of how broken they are.
Unless everyone is playing a rad pushed commander.
Making him a 2cmc 2/2 is insane.
It's just a bear it's fine. Same as when I tell my opponents that Animar is only a 1/1...right before I kill them on my turn...
@@nicholasbower17 lol thats literally something i say sarcastically when im playing Animar. "Why y'all complaining? Its a 3 mana 1/1?" 😂😂😂
Okay, ramp and combo pieces are all well and good, but what Kinnan really needs is a treadmill
Man adds mana faster than he adds extra chins
This IS Lair of Behemoths
So glad that simic is getting the help it needs. Everyone knows that boros is the most powerful color combo, and that simic is the least. They finally got the help they needed. Other commanders in simic like tatyova and vanifar are straight garbage fire. Meanwhile, depala is a top tier competitive deck. Nice!
Well we did get zirrda this time around who is honestly amazing. The problem of card draw remains though
Zirda is good, but not busted and I know there are infinite mana combos with the fox. Winota is a pretty good Boros commander, but Zirda and Winota don’t compare to the 6 other busted simic commanders.
Zirda and Winota are really good but nothing close to Kinnan
Nice sarcasm there budfy.
I’m sure somebody mentioned this. But you don’t need to untap the commander to use his ability again as Jumbo stated at one point. It’s an instant speed activation with no tapping necessary (except mana rocks/dorks)... 😜👍
Another good Simic commander...
What do you mean? What is there besides thrasios lol
@@raffiavedissian8425 vannifar, edric, momig vir, uro, tatyova, pir/toothy, rashmi...
@@raffiavedissian8425 Well for one this is an objectively better Thrasios.
In Simic itself, Vannifar and Rashmi are both competetively viable, in their own different ways.
Rashmi is a glacially slow control deck that trades 1 for 1 on everything while squeezing out card advantage. Vannifar is a Hulk pile that uses her birthing pod effect to power through the pieces.
There's also a wealth of just solid very commanders in UG, in fact there's a disproportionate amount compared to other color pairings (even if they aren't tier one uber decks).
Edric is very good, Momir Vig is very good, Uro is good, even Ezuri, Tatiyova and Pir/Toohy are good commanders.
Even bad Simic commanders are still pretty decent.
@@papanurgle8393 What about Kruphix? I've been playing Kruphix for a while and it's done extremely well
Yay...
It's dying as soon as I see it cast.
If your opponent doesn't Force of Will or Pact of Negation your removal then they deserve to lose tbh go for it
@@L00rdAjduk a possibility... That's assuming that I don't have counter magic as well..
@@L00rdAjduk if you use force of will or pact in commander you probably dont have friends lol
@@Jeramiahstool yes, we should all play Ayula vanilla commander's quarters budget decks instead of good cards lol
If they have infinite mana as soon as it hits the board it doesn’t matter lmao
I love this type of video!!!! I watch a lot of “deck techs” but I just watch them for ideas so thank you for doing this format!!! More please!!!
Wait, Kinnan can be activated? I thought that was just flavor text
A mix of both styles is how I went and it’s pretty strong. Cedh has a hard time dealing with creatures and permanents. Board wipes generally come in just toxic deluge and fire convenant. Built him with interaction and intruder alarm and he can win turn 2-3 off the two card combos or play the long game when you play sphynx, nezahal, Jin gitaxis and such. He’s very strong but simic in general is west due to lack of tutors for the actual win cons
He's probably the best simic commander period 😂 that's my opinion tho, just from my experience using him
Momir Vig is a close second but yeah, extremely powerful.
Turn 1: ancient tomb =>sol ring , simic signet=>kinnan. Turn 2 :mox amber => basalt monolith=> activate kinnan=> certain eldrazi that activates for 20... win
that little snippet, right there at 1:41 is the very exact reason i will NEVER play against this Kinnan deck on Arena BTW~
He just casually activated that stupid ability on what... turn 4? ye, biiig nope XD
Probably the turn after he comes out more than likely.
At this point I just scoop whenever I get put against Kinnan, Uro or Kiora. Especially if they're playing a bunch of counter magic.
Also special shoutout to people playing teferi as their commander
@@laluckyman really Torbrann is the one I don't want to play against.
@@laluckyman yea same. The simic decks are a dime a dozen. All do the same thing, been there done that. Most all of azorious decks get the insta-scoop as well. Same story, Niv-mizzet idem dito, and any 5-colour pile same honestly.
Quit being salty and play more interaction and or board wipes this deck relys on creatures and yes some mana rocks, but you still can destroy most of the decks board with a boardwipe.
This just in, generically good commander at two mana is highly competitive and good! Next up, red mana likes burn damage and black mana is good at creature removal!
In all seriousness though, great video DJ! Always love the content you bring!
blue is a really good artifact tutor color, search for chromatic orrery whilst you have the kinnan and monolith combo and just go nuts with kinnan :)
Definitely going eldrazi tribal with her, I mean pulling all the eldrazi from my deck onto the battlefield with infinite mana and the end of my opponents turn seems pretty good
Kinnan is a chick???
I really want to put this in a druid tribal deck with Morophon at the helm
Always so relaxing 😍
Urza it's a human so Kinnan cannot take him out of the deck
Kinnan is basically a simic version of urza anyway lol
Great commander. See that they added me to game
Pulled this from a box on release day.
Sitting in a binder because no one will want to play against it, haha. Also, I find decks like this to get stale after one game. I like putting effort into winning, not just do the same thing every game.
Ah yes i do enjoy my mana doublers at 2 MANA 😤🤔 wizards, do y’all ever learn? At least we got winota
My favorite thing about Kinnan is how I'm literally just using him to make my Zaxama deck more broken and fun lmao. Make him my commander? Nah, I got INFINITE HYDRAS to produce.
I actually thought about building my first cEDH deck with Kinnan. I usually shy away from competitive because I hate playing combo, I generally prefer control or midrange-y decks with grindy ways to win, but this seems to be the type of combo I can get behind.
He’s super easy to build and honestly not that expensive when compared to some other cEDH commanders since he goes infinite with just one other card.
I used to feel that way, now I won’t play anything but cedh. Casual is boring as hell
What’s your wincon in your cEDH Kinnan?
Kinnan is fun ... for the people who want to win turn 2 or 3
Was it really neccessary to print Kinnan? I doubt that those kinda commanders (K'rrik, Urza and all this busted new stuff) are healthy for the core edh community..
I just find it so generic and boring
can you do another tour of your decks please, love the content
Kinnan... Kalamax... Haldan and Pako... I used to hate to see Muldratha and Omnath locus of rage. With them printing more and more busted commanders with every set, you have to go out of your way to play things that aren't busted. And the commanders that I used to think were busted suddenly seem fine. Commander was supposed to be a format where once you built a deck it was playable forever. Decks that I used to consider 8s on the power scale have diminished to 5s or 6s just due to power creep.
yes, I'm starting falling out of love with the format thanks to WotC pushing the power creep set after set: they're pushing EDH onto the way of Standard.
Also, are these OP commanders even fun to built around? They have some much text and pretty much autopilot the player on how to easily take over or win the game. Do you rememeber the times when you picked that legendary creature with peculiar ability and start looking through the history of MtG to find any card that could make it work?
@@ROMANTIKILLER2 then play with a playgroup that doesn't want to build semi-competitive? If your playgroup shares the same sentiment that "power creep is ruining my games!" (even though it's likely how you built the deck, and not power creep. My OG Erebos, "Mono-green Rys," and Derevi midrange deck still work extremely well under all of this power creep. Only adding a few new cards here and there to improve upon it from new sets, AND most current improvements I'm looking for are actually _older._) then you should all take an agreement on the power level you want your decks to be. In a low power environment, these "op commanders" surely do look more powerful than your average commander. But keep in mind CEDH puts emphasis on the power of the deck if the commander itself isn't a combo piece. Sushi Hulk was entirely about Demonic Consultation + Thassa's Oracle and Flash+Hulk packages with interaction mixed in. Consultation Kess is about Consultation and the consistency Kess provides it. Sisay+Jegantha is about searching for Derevi+Najeela to win. The First Sliver is only there to provide a mana outlet for when you Food Chain combo off.
While this might seem like a tangent, keep in mind that means the decks are built more powerful from the cards in the 99, not by the commander. Tymna and Kraum is a competitive Wheel and Deal deck, not because Tymna and Kraum are broken commanders... But because it has colors and is a strong deck. Kenrith is not a "super strong" commander like Kinnan. But he's competitive because he provides options through color, mana outlets, and resilience. In fact, I'd say Kenrith+Zirda does Kinnan's job better. I'd recommend tweaking your deck building up, and not blaming it on the "new op power creep commanders." OR talk with your playgroup so you all know a good level of power to strive for.
And make sure you aren't saying "most acceptable ways to win" as a judge on power level, because there is much more to playing commander than creatures and swing. Johnny (not just combo players, but the silly deck builder and control players fall under this "category") needs his home too.
The one thing that puts me off about Kinnan, is that you might pay 7 mana's worth and only find 1 or 2 creatures that cost less or aren't very powerful. I know building the deck a certain way could help decrease the likelihood of this problem but I'm not overly sure how to go about that and it could likely still happen. Other than that he is good
Thank you DJ! :)
Can you also talk about companions in Commanders
Zirda and Zegantha are very interesting
Coolstuff inc is the best
*Druid tribal?*
Pyroclasm is a staple card now XD
Winota made it to cedh too...
I think it was the outer. But banned before we could play with it
Sarcastic comments aside, as a returning player, the fact that your posted decklist costs $1000 is upsetting. Guess i'll fire up the old inkjet and print myself a deck.
I always avoid more than 5 GOAT cards in my deck (above 10$) cos bro I have 4 decks I ain’t gonna just sell everything I have to get a Gaeas Cradle. Cos that’s always been the problem with magic
Tournements work best 1 vs 1. Its is much more fun the creatures version for multiplayers!
Maybe this opinion is unpopular, but I hated this card the moment I saw it. Simic of all combination did not need such a broken engine.
This guy can basically produce infinite mana as early as T2 with some Grim/Basalt Monolith, and what is worse it also gives a place were to sink that mana with his activated ability, easiliy allowing to drop scary stuff like Eldrazis or Blightsteel Colossus on the battlefield, or Walking Ballista as DJ also said.
Is it even fun to built around cards like this, Urza, etc.?
Does WotC even consider the impact that OP cards like this can have in all formats? Or they do, but they're so willing to push the power creep more and more to try to onboard new people to start play Magic-Oh?
Personally I'm concerned about the upcoming Commander Legends set, as I have the feeling (I hope to be wrong) that WotC will push the power level to the point of warping the format and making the majority of all older "normal" commanders from regular sets unplayable at the average table.
It’s not as OP as people think, simic isn’t a great color pairing. Lacks tutors to actually get win cons so you have to run a lot of draws to get the cards
@@koreyg8552 mystical tutor, worldly tutor, sylvan tutor all viable for this commander
Kinnan is just a *much* better version of Mayael the anima. A better version of Mayael is fine since while the card is beautiful it is pretty underpowered but it didn't have to be *that* good...
Kinnan costs 1 less, amps up your mana production *and* doesn't need to tap to activate and "non-human" is a lot stronger than "power 5".
I'd love to see some non UBx colors getting some love :D
The question is... is Kinnan as good or better than Rofellos? Because if the answer is yes, well...
Built him as soon as he was spoiled lol. He's pretty nuts
And, what about using a spectral sailor and then win with a thassa’s oracle
I liked the 271 unread comments on Tappedout!!
I have a Kruphix Eldrazi deck. I’m afraid that Kinnen is just objectively better as a commander
Number one problem I have with Kinnan: you have to be degenerate as fuck to fight it. It's just one of those cards that immediately puts you into an ultimatum. If you think I'm playing against that with anything other than a bolt the bird/land destruction deck, you are mistaken. It's just one of those cards that's toxic as fuck in casual play and card shop magic is gonna get really unfun when you start having to fight degenerate strategies with degenerate strategies.
Beyond that, strong competitive card I guess.
Sir, you forgot the 100% best card for kinnan.
Helix Pinnacle
First cedh decks are getting hyped for this deck
Mycosynth lattice and you've got infinite kinnan triggers
Kinnan looks like Autumn Buchett
Can we put the word out to no longer call removal "interaction".
It doesn't interact. It's reactive. It's a panic button.
To be honest the only things that can interact are permanents. The alters, KCI, grinding station set up, maze of ith, and if you want removal so badly there's priest of the forgotten gods.
All I see when someone plays instant speed removal, is them saying "no! You can't play magic"
this is the absolute worst mtg-related take i've seen in 2020, and i 've seen many bad ones
@@Coxgix7 so you say its a bad (the worst) mtg related take.
not in your opinion, but simply state it as fact.
ok...
how?
Rielle wins for me, but I am slightly biased xD
I just put kinnan into thrasios and tymna
Jin-getaxis is good with kinnan
I’m getting pretty hyped about this deck
Im building Kinnan
Never had a Simic Mander... May have to sleeve him up.
Winota ngl
I’m just so sick of simic man. Set after set. Main or supplemental products cramming simic down our throats
I'm personally loving it
Yeah, I prefer Mono Red as well :)
LOL Oh Look another silly pushed Simic Infinite mana combo-mander. FNM when it returns is going to be like, ''You want to play Commander, what colours?''
''Simic''
''Yeah, your off your rocker mate I came for casual''
''Simic is casual'' *echoes in an empty mall, cricket chirps.
Why is this card pushed? Hmm, basically doubles non land mana sources (guess that is not enough?, too boring?) SO they add a mana sink to Kinnan with a high activation (No tap required) like it is hard to get to 7 mana activation despite, hmm IDK, having the (boring) ability to make basically double mana from non land sources! It is like these designers forgot the basic fundamentals of MTG design for glitzy pushed combos. Even if they had a modicum of restraint they would have Kinnan tap as part of the activation in turn forcing the player to have more set up BUT I guess that is not fun! :(
I think this is the wrong way of doing it, but keep in mind partners are all the rage competitively BECAUSE options are so much more important now. Mana is no longer something to constrain you, therefore there is no downside to running colors besides cost. So why _would_ you constain yourself to simic only if you can take Thrasios, only slightly worse in some cases than kinnan, and slap on two more colors and interact better. Run things like Teferi's protection, or demonic consultation. Or run Kenrith and just... Run whatever you want with a generally strong commander in the helm who fits any strategy.
Again, pushing commanders like this is by far the worst way to do it imo. But it's not like kinnan is going to be any more popular than vannifar or Thrasios+tymna, or the aforementioned Kenrith. Or even non G+U using cedh decks, like Tymna+Kraum or similar.
He could of been rakdos... but nope
Simple. Just run elesh norn. Kinnan solved
Imagine a good Boros commander??? I wonder what that looks like WoTC
Nah. Winota, feather And zirda. They might not be as pushed as this, but still pretty good.
TheWinterSaint And Zirda goes infinite with Basalt Monolith too.
@@MekanikKommandoh88 I don't specifically mean a Boros comm that is cEDH level and can go infinite. I just mean like fun to play at a decent poker level.
ToneHunter87 Well there’s...Feather...
Yeah I got nothin’
Welp, there goes my stimulus check on Kinnan, who I was already planning on building.
Kinnon is good but don't count out Fiend Artisan. A tutor in a stick that gets bigger for tutoring is gross.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this comment, but Fiend is not legendary
No doubt a powerful commander, but my thought is why spending $1,000+ on him if you can just build Urza or Thrasios instead spending the same money.
Proxy him using ur phone 🤣
Seriously? A 6k deck?
Lol
Nothing quiet about him
Urza don’t work with Kinnan m8
As I always say... Kinnan is balanced in that his art is more ugly than his card is powerful.
He might see play in cedh since some of these players do not really care for that kind of stuff but otherwise Kinnan can just be played as a commander by blind people imo...
basalt monolith + celestial prism + Kinnan = cast all your deck
Mark my words, this card will need to be banned in a few weeks/ months. It does way to much for way too little downside. It’s incredibly easy to combo out on turn 2-4. I hate this card with a passion, there was absolutely no reason to print a better Rofellos (which, unsurprisingly, is banned in commander) in a standard product or even at all
This card wont get banned as we have golos, urza and thrasios that do similar things as kinnan.
Sulaiman Hyatt-Butt none of which are as cheap and as consistent, the only thing that comes close to kinnan is urza, a comp commander, and that’s one less color, 2 extra mana, can’t do top deck manipulation for its second ability, and doesn’t infinite combo as easily, and thrasios, which in this case is now a direct down grade since kinnan is a more compact combo piece. Rofelos taps to add mana equal to the number of forests you control, with no other advantage and is banned. It’s arguably better to have nonland cards tap for an additional mana as it’s ten times easier to combo off with.
@@guisseppimelon8224 its still a creature so you can still kill it with spot removal and boardwipes. Its not getting banned because non land permanents are easier to interact with. Plus this card is still new it would be unwise to make a ban out of a new card that has incredible value they would of pre banned this card just like lutri so that they saved people from buying the card. This is probably the big reason why this card isnt gonna get banned. Its because it too new and very hyped at value it would be unwise to ban it and it turn out people would of just wasted money and time to invest on the card and this would cause the community to backlash at RC.
I do agree tho with you that this card is strictly better than rofelos and if its banned then so should this but the RC have already banned alot of cards recently. And it would just cause panic and uncertainty for peopel considering about investing powerful exciting cards released in future and other cards that fall under similar categories.
1. Selvalla is "strictly better than Rofellos" in many ways and isn't banned.
2. Thrasios is better than Kinnan because of color advantage (never play a partner without a second partner.) Interactivity is _huge_ in commander, especially CEDH, and Kinnan just gets less of it by only being two colors (even if they are the best.)
3. You don't really care about the fact he's cheaper. You aren't trying to play your combo piece before you can go off, you're trying to protect it first. Imagine playing kinnan turn 2 with a single mana dork or rock. But then he gets Ass Trophied or Abrupt Decayed. Sure the fact he's cheap helps you play them quicker if you drew the combo early, but you don't build a deck for the best scenario possible. You build it trying to take into account some of the worst.
Another cancer card that lets you free cast and end the game by next turn. Then please be suprised you play against RDW all the time...
This Commander isnt good, simic is the color of lands not ramp artifacts.
On the other hand pay 7 mana for top 5 lucks u hits mostly creatures that are under 7 mana so its not worth and sometime u ca hit nothing. There are more and better simic/commanders
He goes infinite with Basalt Monolith. You can literally win the game with those two cards combined with Finale of Devastation or Jace/Oracle/LabMan and an X mana draw spell LOL. He’s insanely good what are you smoking?
"Quite" competitive? Try *TERRIFYINGLY* competitive. A 2CMC commander that super charges your ramp sources AND gives you the power to dig through your deck? Kinnan is what Nikya of the Old Ways SHOULD'VE been AND THEN some 🤣
Car is dope, but good simic legendaries are getting boring, and this is my least favorite art, possibly ever, in modern Magic. I cannot play this card. Ever.