The Most Accurate Lathe Chuck - The Sequel - Shop Made Tools
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- ER40 Vs 5C collet Chucks. Why settle for one Collet Chuck when you can make 2?
In a previous video I mounted an ER40 Collet Chuck onto my lathe, I have now built the same mount for a BISON 5C Collet Chuck.
The video explores a comparison between the two with some real-world tests to see how they compare.
So, which is best? Let’s find out.
I'm not forming any conclusions about what the final accuracy of the chucks are, I'm just making observations and you can form your own conclusions.
There are several lessons learned from this build that will cause me to completely rethink measurements in the shed.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
00:35 Titles
00:55 Description
01:27 Assembling the 5C Chuck
01:50 ER Collet Chuck
02:07 ER Collet Runout observation
02:50 5C Collet Chuck
03:15 5C Chuck Runout observation
04:30 ER Collets
04:55 ER 16mm Runout observation
06:05 5C Collets
06:40 5C 16mm Runout observation
08:20 ER 20mm Runout observation
09:40 5C 20mm Runout observation
11:00 ER 25mm 3 points of Runout observations
13:40 5C 25mm 3 points of Runout observations
15:20 ER 19mm Pull Test observation, 20kg
16:30 5C 19mm Full Test observation, 20kg
17:25 ER 20mm bar machining observation
18:50 5C 20mm bar machining observation
20:40 Conclusions
22:30 End credits 
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Those spindle bearrings deserve an award. There is a lot that needs to be right for 1 micron class runouts at a part in a collet.
Thank you.
Those are terrific results overall Steve, Congrats!!
Thank you, very much appreciated. Cheers Steve O
Great stuff, enjoyed every minute, thank you for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers
Very excellent - I like to see a really precision set up like this. 👍
Thanks for the comment. Cheers Steve O
Don't breath to much my friend, very funny. Great job.
Thanks mate.
I sent an email to M&G about your channel and using their indicators, I hope they reached out to you and sent some products to test. Great vid mate👍👌🇦🇺
Thanks for the comment and thank you for that email. I have been using their products from some time now and I'm very happy with their tooling. They have some great tooling.
Cheers Steve O.
I just got a 33pcs 5C collet set from them, M&G that is, the other sets were only 5-28mm and 25pcs, this one has extra 0.5mm collets under 12mm and 3-28mm range, 33pcs in total. 🤞that they have good runout too👍👌🇦🇺
Great to hear. Thanks for the comment. Cheers Steve O
Very impressive. Those chucks look really good with them scallops on the OD. Loved the whole video, except for those funny graduations on them mics and dials….
🍻from 🇺🇸
Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Cheers Steve O
Very impressive, your lathe spindle must be a really good one as well.
I have commented on this before, but its worth saying again, I'm always impressed by how clean, tidy and well oiled you keep you machines.
35C is not a temperature we expect to see very often in the UK, in fact our record temperature in England is just over 40C. The worst case for me was last year when we had a temp of about 18C which dropped to well under 10C in about an hour. There was condensation on every machine tool, took me ages to dry and spray with WD40. I now use Sta-Bil Rust Stopper, with excellent results.
Thanks for the comment and the compliment. Corrosion prevention is a big issue in an environment that is not climate controlled. Rapid temperature drops is the biggest risk with the air cooling and giving up its humidity to metal parts. Some machines can benefit from applying car wax but I use a fluid film. it also acts as a lubricant so any left on during machining gets a second life.
I also keep my machines covered with old sheets, they form a cotton barrier around the machine and as a natural fibre they are hydrophilic and tend to absorb moisture during temperature changes. They've worked well for me over many years.
Water is something I avoid and make sure your shed is weather proof. I've put a link to the fluid film below for you.
www.machineryhouse.com.au/rust-preventive-fluids
Cheers Steve O
@@theoutbackshed Boeshield works pretty well, don't know if you have it in the outback. Leaves a kind of waxy surface.
I have heard that Boeshield is very good, I haven't come across any but would happily give it a go. I'll see of I can get some. Cheers Steve O
Looks good. Chasing zeros isn't a bad thing though. Sometimes it has to be done. A few things to note, the test bar; I bought a really expensive 18 inch precision ground test bar and used it initially to check my lathe. 2 years later I pulled it out to re-check my set tru chuck and everything was way off. I spent hours getting crazy results, wondering what was going on and then I decided to put my test bar on the surface plate and seen that it had bent significantly and I can't explain as to why. I think I videoed this but can't remember.
Also, when I moved from L.A. to where I am now, temperature wasn't an issue in California but where I moved it was and my first winter here as every winter here goes below zero F, and I didn't heat my shop that first winter and almost every power tool and tool that had bearings and a motor was ruined. I've had people say they never heard of this and people that say the same thing happened to them.
I would consider insulating and heating your shop when freezing temps come in. And when machining make sure your equipment is at 65 to 70 degrees F. Granite surface plates are lapped at between 65 and 70 degrees and if you're in a shop colder than that everything is going to be out of spec.
I had my shop insulated and when not in use I keep it around 50 degrees F and when in use I keep it at 70 degrees F.
Those bison chucks from Poland are really good. They produce some good stuff over there at a decent price.
Thanks for the video, was a good watch for sure.
Thanks for the comments. I've chased zero as much as I care to right now. though I need to invest in some better dial gauges I think the results I have are more than acceptable ... for now anyway. As I said, I have cooling in the shed but it doesn't get to zero where I live so heating is not really an issue. I get used to recalibrating micrometers and the like but my shed is well insulated so the short term variation (within a day) is fine, seasonal variations are a bit more.
I'd love a Bison 6 jaw, 10 or 12 inch but in this part of the world they are a little hard to find, and if you do find on they are very expensive. So I'll just keep plodding on.
I used the ER collet chuck on the latest project *still filming) and it performed perfectly.
Glad you liked the video and the build Cheers Steve O
Keep in mind, ER collets (invented by Rego Fix, Swiss) are originally designed to hold round tools, 5c collets (Hardinge) are designed for work holding. ER collets have a larger grip range compared to 5C collets. The trade off being, a 5c collet can grip with less than 1/2 diameter with no stability or accuracy issues, the ER collet should engage the round stock with the full length of the ER collet and the ER collet cannot reliability hold a work piece at 1/2 diameter or less.
ER collets are limited to round collets with very few exceptions. 5c collets can be had in round, hex, square and custom made imperial/metric sizes. 5c collets are also available as step collets that hold the work outside the inner diameter of the collet's front body. 5c collets are also made in expanding versions that will grip by an expander to the inside diameter.
While the accuracy/precision illustrated with round bar in this video notes very similar to identical results, the 5c collet as a system is simply far more versatile with far more ability to hold non-round work then any ER collet system. This is due to the fact 5c collets were and are originally designed as work holding collets, ER collets are designed to hold tooling.
Thanks for the comment, I'm very happy with both chucks. The 5C collets , although not branded, are showing a high degree of accuracy. I will be on the lookout to expand the range of collets that I have.
Cheers Steve O
@@theoutbackshed
The common low cost 5c collet is surprisingly accurate/precise. The one problem they have , they are made to marked size instead of slight over size to allow ease of placing work into the collet. This is one of the prime differences between the common low cost 5c collet -vs- Hardinge, Lyndex and other premium brand 5c collets. For the home shop/hobbyist, those low cost 5c collets are an excellent value easily meeting these needs.
Thanks for that.
ER may have been designed for tooling, but they will hold work just fine if it's long enough. For you average home shop it's a lot cheaper to have a full set of ER40 than a full set of 5C.
@@carlhitchon1009
Within specific limitations ER collets work for round bar and the round bar must be long enough to span the entire length of the ER collet. Sure, round bar less than the span length of the collet has been done, not good for the collet and there is a risk of the round bar exiting the collet as it is being worked on. Within those hard limitations ER collets do work for holding round/threaded bar.
Keep in mind ER collets at the ends of it's hold range is not very secure or ideal holding power.
Fact remains, the 5c collet is more versatile and stable for holding round, hex, square bar down to less then 1/2D.
There is no idea, just trade offs with overall cost included in this mix.
some very fine parts will be made on that lathe
Thanks
Thanks for the great video! As I understand it, 5C collets bear also on the cylindrical portion just before the thread (dimension called out as + 0.0001”/0.00254mm), it would be interesting to see if the runout of that portion of the Bison chuck relates to the test bar runout results.
Thanks for the comment. Great point! Cheers
I would be very suspicious about the no brand DTI. It looked like the 0,01mm clock moved at least 0,003mm and the no name one barely moved. So the 0,01mm indicator is actually more sensitive than the more "accurate" one. I had similar results with chinese ones and that's why I now have Japan and Swiss made DTI's for the stuff that matters.
Same goes for the M&W. It appears to be too stiff for the setup.
Thanks for the comment. I'm looking for higher quality indicators. Cheers Steve O
Muito bom ! Preciso.
Cheers, and thanks for the comment.
Thanks for the video. If you buy higher end test instruments, make sure they are not knockoffs.
Thanks, I'll remember that.
Both chucks measured similarly with 16mm collets but the 5C was worse with the 20mm, surely you're not measuring the chucks but the inaccuracies of the unbranded 5C collets? Edit: You just answered my question!
Thanks for the comment, you are correct, the chucks came out similar and very accurate. The errors between the different sizes could be due to variations in the collets, the test piece or both. Overall, the 5C collets performed well and I am pleased with them.
Cheers Steve O
You're not pulling our legs here, are you?
Thanks for the comment. What you see is what I got. Not sure how its possible to pull your leg.
The runout is as seen, as I said in the conclusions there are times when the dial gauges don't agree, which to believe? and I'm not happy with the instruments I have except the Moore and Wright. I don't make any conclusions about what the accuracy actually is, you can judge for yourselves. What constitutes a micron today likely won't tomorrow.
There are people on RUclips that have done similar and got better results than me.
All that said, I'm happy with the result, but I'm done chasing zeros,
I just showed it as it was. Cheers Steve O.