Good advice. When I built my deck myself 20 years ago, I put my posts on metal anchors on top of the concrete. I also put roofing shingles on top of the posts as well to keep water out of the top end. After all this time it’s still solid and my Trex looks new. Build it right the first time.
I'm loving the comments from all the experts below. "I'd recommend replacing everything." "Should've used steel beams." "Should just cut a hole in your current deck, pour a concrete foundation for your hot tub, then put a border around your hot tub."
Important to note that even though there was some rot in the 6x6, it still had another 10 years of life left in it. The right way is keeping the post out of the concrete but in reality almost everything is overbuilt and replaced before the end of its life, usually from a remodel or demolition.
Previous deck was 6yr old, in concrete. Rot/ants were everywhere. I researched to exhaustion but settled with above concrete anchors. 6 or so years later and i have zero rot, solid as a rock. Im thankful i went with anchors. Alot easier to replace too if there ever is rot in the future. Update: Deck is 10 years old. Still perfect. No rot whatsoever.
"I don't wanna deal with it when I'm older". My man, this is the story of my life in the old house I've bought and am renovating! I keep telling my wife "I'm in my 30's now and I'm sure as heck not going to feel like doing any of this 10+ years from now, so I'm building it right or overbuilding it now." I'm currently rebuilding my decks (yes, plural) that are rotted at the ledger and house band joist, so I know exactly what you're going through with this video. Great common sense stuff man, thanks for the vid!
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow Too right! I'm on a sloped mountainside lot and the deck I'm currently repairing (new spreadbase footers, new 6x6s, actual beams (they laid a 2x6 on the flat at a 14' span for the middle "beam"), new hardware) and one side of the deck is about 4.5 feet off the ground while the other is about 16'. I'm going to have to pay a LOT of attention to my lateral bracing to make this sturdy. I'm also thinking of those lateral braces that Simpson makes that are basically all-thread bored through the house band joist with a bracket on a deck joist and one inside the house, preventing the deck from pulling away from the house. Your deck looks a lot lower, but do you plan on working any bracing into your design?
@@BrandonWest87 yeah my deck is only a little more than four feet off the ground. At 16 foot I would certainly make sure she has plenty of bracing. Mine is very rigid being attached to the house and I didn't see any need for additional bracing. Those Simpson strong ties are pretty amazing though. I used quite a few different Simpson steel brackets throughout mine
When I set wooden posts in concrete I use roofing mastic and really heavyweight plastic trash bags. I coat the wood with mastic the cover the mastic with a trash bag to above earth carefully sealing the trash bag to the post. It keeps out the water and prevents damage from the lime in the concrete. Lime rapidly ages wood (rot).
On Amazon: *6x6 POST BASE: amzn.to/2QyJrel *4x4 POST BASE: amzn.to/2wu7W36 *STAINLESS SIMPSON 6X6 BASE: amzn.to/39e93FJ *USE THIS INSTEAD OF CONCRETE: amzn.to/382udWz ~UPDATE VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/fwyuAoknWJs/видео.html
Concrete has lime which breaks down organic materials like wood. If you're setting wood in concrete, you need a protective barrier so it won't rot. You can staple tar paper to the post or paint tar on it wherever it will be touching cement.
Steve Legend Nope.. Not wrong.. Lime (calcium hydroxide) is a component of cement and is a caustic powder that hastens the decay of organic matter. This is why a builder puts a layer of roofing tar paper over a foundation before laying a sill plate. Concrete rots wood.
@@huggybear539 It's only a component of poorly made cement. At my grandmother's house, the cellar and welltop my grandfather made in 1941 is still perfect today, and he made concrete out of portland cement, sand, and crushed flint.
I built a deck over 10 years ago for our above ground pool using nothing more than holes drilled in the ground with 6" of gravel packed in the bottom. I never thought we'd have the pool for 10 years and the deck is doing just fine. It is cheap and fast and disposable.
I built a Swing and Slide for my kids, I took it down last year, it had been up ten years, a lot of the ground contact wood was damaged pretty bad. I never knew. Take care
I built a 7,200sf mansion 450 years ago out of tongue depressors, used Q-Tips and Bazooka bubble gum wrappers. Starting to show a little ware........but for the most part it's holding up quite well.
It’s called thinking ahead. Getting it right the first time, if you know how, is always a lot less work than having to fix it later. Before you can do better, you have to know better. Excellent video. Thanks!
yup , that is the correct time frame there. if i had built the deck , i would have notched all four sides of the post, done a water treatment overlay, then dipped the post [ that is going into the concrete] , then set it into place and poured the pad and let it cure. you would not be able to remove the post. lol [ and would have lasted way longer than 8 years ] . other people like to do the samething to shallow posts with no cement pad under the deck. same time frame [ 8 yrs ] then replace. the steel anchor plates will do the job, and make it last longer than 8 yrs. BUT, the wood will dry out faster unless it is marine treated.. . . or painted with a sealer every 2 or 3 years. awesome video !!
Yeah we had tract homes here in Sylmar the eves rotted out on bottom roof all around contractors are cheesy sometimes. They skip the step painting under with weatherproof paint primers.
Glad it helped point you in the right direction! Thanks for your comment. Wood is definitely fine in concrete as long as you don't mind replacing it 15 or 20 years later LOL. At least that's about how long it will last year in the Northeast where the ground is always moist. Out in Colorado or somewhere dry probably a different story
Those 6x6 brackets sure are expensive. I'll buy them anyway. I need to beef up my front porch columns that are 4x4 with 6x6. Thank you so much for the heads up! RUclips is great.
Some of these comments are ridic.. sure you didn't HAVE to repair it now but you are a good homeowner and share your wisdom on RUclips.. thanks for the vid man
The posts look to be appearance grade, not meant for ground contact. Ground contact lumber is incised (injected with CCA .60 to meet AWPA UC4B). Any end cuts are treated with Copper-Green or similar products to prevent fungus, mold or insect intrusion into the wood fibers. Pole barn companies have been installing 4" x 6" and 6" x 6" treated post in the ground for decades.
@@dangrimes5078 Telephone and railroad ties are treated with creosote. Any wood you buy will not be treated with that. Which is why those last longer compared to store bought.
Thanks for showing this. My wife doesn't understand why I want to DIY so much (within reason) around the house. The "pros" are often amateurs with a bit more formality. That scumbag didn't even do proper footers? Jeez man. That's why I hired you! 🤔
I wish they would stop selling any treated lumber as "ground contact" because we contractors know they should always be installed with the galvanized steel bases. Nice video!
Unlike post that were put in the ground 100 years ago. And still going strong. I have a barn with hedge post that have been there since the day the Egyptians stumbled upon the pyramids
@@drmachinewerke1 They treated those posts with lamp oil back then. We always put diesel on our wagons to store over winter on the farm. We had wagons over 50yrs old. We didn't have a shed to put them in, they stayed out in the weather.
ArtisanTony i disagree. Theres 1500 year old huge stone churhes built on pile driven timber stumps. Your steel post holder would last 20 years or less. Thats a factor of 70.
18 yrs ago I bought cheap 8ft presure treated landscape posts for a 60ft long stockade fence project. I coated them (actually I had my girlfriend do all the work) with liquid tar up 3ft. I ( girlfriend) set them in about 2 1/2 ft. I live in Buffalo NY. This fence has withstood every storm Buffalo could through at it. Last summer (2018) was the first time I did any maintenance on the fence. All the posts were still standing strong. I just had to replace a few pickets, some stain and she should be good for another 18yrs. Last summer I put up (this time I mean me) another 60 ft length with 8ft presure treated 4×4s. I treated the bottoms up 3ft with waist motor oil. I'm guessing I should get 30+ yrs out of them.
Dude...you got your girlfriend to do the work or even help?? YOu struck gold there in a day and age where most females are lazy hypocritical wackopathic feminazis. Considering that a blessing man. You have a down to Earth ..seemingly REAL woman who isn't afraid to get her hands dirty. That's awesome! I wish you two well.
@@enricopallazzo3244 yes she is. We didn't breakup until years later. It was a long distance relationship and we got wore out. She was certainly a keeper and I kick myself in the ass all the time.
@@motoryzen thanks man but that was 18yrs ago and we broke up due to it was a long distance relationship. But I do seem to be able to land girls that don't mind doing projects with me. We actually have fun.
not convinced, now had he cut the base of the post off which he will have to do to install a metal riser, he could've shown us the complete rot and if the middle of the post was just as bad then hed have a good case
I soaked my 4x4 softwood fence posts in creosote for a month before I set them and made sure there was proper drainage in the bottom of the concrete. I have done nothing to them since 1985 and they are absolutely solid.
I built a ground-level deck a couple of years ago which is also covered. (The posts for the cover are on cement piers with metal footings.) I didn't have the benefit of this video, but I tried to make it to last. I used 6x6 barn timbers which have a higher level and type of preservative. I soaked all cut pieces in copper green and once dried put two coats of weatherproofing stain and sealer on it. The bottom of the holes does have concrete, but the posts are not embedded in it. I lined the holes with 2 layers of heavy-duty weed cloth (to keep soil from slowly migrating to the posts) and then filled the space with 1-1/2 inch round river rock which holds them in place incredibly well. The weed cloth then covers the over the rock at the top and another small layer of rock covers that. My thinking is that the round river rock provides excellent drainage as well as airflow and will keep water and soil away from the wood thus preventing any rotting. If I was to do it again, I would have covered the base concrete layer with 1/4-10 gravel without fines to provide even more drainage. I would also have used a tar emulsion to coat the posts which I had intended to do but forgot, then covered the post at the ground level with a plastic barrier made for that purpose, which I wasn't aware of at the time. This summer I have to replace a couple of sections of fence, and this is the approach I'll be using for that (without the concrete base) and using 4x6 ground-contact PT wood posts.
Best practice in our country (Vietnam) is to place the wood on a stone or a concrete bed higher than the ground. Higher than the ground is the key point. My grandpa’s house is older than me (>30) and still looks perfect
@@frankmiller95 Biden wasn’t elected. He also has 50 years in DC. It’s literally all his fault. I could care less about anyone’s English. That’s the problem. It’s not a popularity contest it’s about the future of the country. Sooner you figure that out the better.
I had a deck built about 23-24 years ago and they embedded the 6x6 in concrete (it was code back then) and some of the footers are rotting or rotted and I have to deal with this crap now (will never put wood into concrete after seeing the rot). When I was doing some termite treatment around the foundation of my home I had to remove some deck boards and found the deck builder took some shortcuts. They did not install ledger flashing, did not install washers on the ledger screws, did not use corner brackets on a couple boards and only installed 1 lag screw (code now require bolts and nuts for rail post) on posts that supports the railing. I will be bringing the deck up to current code. The deck is strong and has held up for 23+ years and survived an earthquake here in the MD. I will be bringing the deck and porch up to current code where applicable. This is why I never let any contractor do any work at my house now that I have the skills and tools to do all the work. I just don't trust their work, especially work you can't see.
Dude I love how you think.. just like my pops... he built fences for 6-7 years.. never put wood in concrete! We’re building a fence here at my home next month can’t wait...may be going with that western cedar
There are (or used to be) some posts made for ground contact. Ive torn out 20 year old decks(told by homeowner) and all of the joists was touching the ground and none of them had rott or insect damage. You probably wont find it at lowes and HD but a proper lumber yard should have some
Pressure treated wood will last about 5-10 years at best. The old stuff was impregnated with creosote, it would leach out over time leaving sticky black tar marks on the wood. It's also quite toxic and can't be bought over in Europe any more. Using a good hardwood like cedar would help too, but that adds cost.
Pressure treated lumber will last way longer than that. Ive seen some over 20 years old still a good as it was new. The sun is what wrecks havoc on it. And they never used creosote on deck lumber that I've ever used. I believe That's only in railroad ties and utility poles. Deck lumber used to have arsenic and is called CCA lumber. and why you won't find it anymore. It changed to ACQ and mcq.. Alkaline copper quarternary. And MCQ micro copper quarternary. The downside to these is you have to use stainless steel or hot dipped galvanized fasteners or the fastener will rust away in a year.
You are exactly right. There are different specs for wood treatment and you can't get the good stuff from lowes or home depot. Wood pilings and power poles have a different grade of treatment than typical lumber. Some people with saw mills aquire the material from contractors and power company's and saw it into lumber.
Im a DIYer and know for a fact a lot of contractors will rip you off. I think the original home owner did a pretty good job, especially if he did it himself, I believe you have that proud ownership thing going on in your head and need every little thing to be like fort knox
joseph walls I don't know if that's a compliment or not but I'll take it as one. LOL. :) but you're correct for sure, I like to build everything to last a minimum of 100 years. That's my goal for anything I put my hands on.
joseph walls I mentioned in the video that this would have last for many years to come. But I have plans to be putting more weight load on this deck, so I wanted to make sure that the Footers were proper. Which they were not. Also, once the wood is opened up like that from slight rot, the insects really like to get in there and eat up that soft moist wood! The pressure treating only goes so far. That rot is past the pressure treating of those 6x6
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow you can see that small split at 2:24 is starting to open up as it rots more. Looks like the base of that one you pulled up was probably a cut end that wasn't retreated before putting into the ground, it's almost all gone.
By the looks of things, the rest of the deck's not too far behind. Haven't seen one last more than 15 years without needing serious repairs. That's the nature of pressure treated SPF, regardless where it's installed. It's junk. I would have just left it for a few more years and replaced the whole thing with cedar. "Do it right" ;)
I'm a carpenter and I wouldn't mind repairing it for a customer but I would not find it to be a repair that needed immediate attention if it were my deck. I can't be more than 22"-24" off of the ground. If it was a second story deck I would be concerned. The funny thing is the stairs with all different rises. That would worry me and especially the way that they are hung. That's an issue worth addressing.
still though 8 years later, going ok. For me I'd be happy enough with that, and it would last maybe 12-14 years before needing replacing. Agree though steel best way.
Thing is, I had a similar problem, previous owner just put the railing post on the ground. Look clean enough from the outside, first thing you know railing broke under very minimal pressure and we discover a carpenter ants nest inside it. The structure was 15 years old. Other part who were done correctly are still good. Building a deck is quite expensive, why would you want it to last only 15 years, if the same structure just footed properly coul last 10 years more ?
well; I have a 12x20 deck me & dad built 32 years ago treated 4x4 2x10 frame posts set below frost line wood was treated from requarth lumber company Dayton ohio which they treat there lumber in house still solid today
That's because laws these days ban the use of the chemicals they used to use to treat wood being inserted into the ground. Today we arent allowed to treat wood with things like used motor oil (legally) and so wood in ground does not last nearly as long. That same post installed 10 years ago instead would be rotten through.
As far as the quality of treated posts I have seen creosote posts put in concrete that were in good shape when installed . The concrete caused them to rot in short order. High line poles 10 inch in diameter.
Not just the quality of treatments. There's a genuine decline of, and genuine lack of quality in so many things we used to take for granted. Bad leadership ( mostly in government ), has been the biggest problem with outsourcing our jobs and materials to other countries, leaving us with nothing but low quality, very high prices, and much aggravation. So, I'm all for removing and replacing our sitting federal government. This year. 💪🇺🇸🇺🇸👍 Y'all have a great weekend 👍🇺🇸
Waterproof stain it, then tar it. When your ready to put the wood in the hole, don't forget to put a rock in the hole to raise the dimension of weed. I mean wood that you choose so the cement will fill the rest. Use hempcreete if you can in your area. Put enough cement in the hole till your above the grade about 2". (I don't mean grade 2, i mean 2 inches above anything around it within a few feet. Let it dry or simmer (cure) for 3 days and keep it dampened with a hose, or urine (
It's not just the moisture that causes rot. The lime in the concrete will also be wicked into the wood with the moisture to contribute to the rot. I always use tar-based basement waterproofing on the concrete before the post for repairs; There's a whole story about that... My deck needed a couple of new posts 20 years ago and did as mentioned. I replaced the whole thing recently. The "temporary" repair lasted 20 years, and still was not needing replacement. There is no such thing as "ground contact" PT wood unless you do it yourself, the old way. It is no more toxic to the environment than the chemicals in PT lumber. Cheers.
Good video, my friend. My dad had 2 rules he would NEVER compromise concerning wooden posts. 1.) 4 feet deep. 2.) No concrete. During my childhood, I bet we dug over 100 post holes. (Spread over several years time.) Every single one of our posts were tamped using the dirt & rocks we originally took out of the hole. Like you said- good as new. To this day, I cringe when someone mentions 'concreting' their posts...
@@AlexA-zg7mq Hahahaha. That is EXACTLY the same question we kids were asking as we dug the holes... All jokes aside though - Dad always said '4 ft. may be a bit much, but those things won't go anywhere.' You see, we ran several head of livestock and my dad did not want the corner posts of the fencing to budge. (Animals have a way of tearing up cheap fences quickly.) And my dad hated to have to redo a job. (As do I.) We also built a pole barn using that depth. Our posts were old telephone poles. So, we could set 'em deep and customize the perfect height above-ground. Those poles were like Fort Knox. They weren't going anywhere. My dad was not a general contractor, nor a licensed carpenter. However, some 40 years later, I can honestly testify that all those posts we set (fences, as well as buildings) have out-lived my dad. Something my dad taught us growing up - overkill means only having to do it once. Thanks for the question. While typing this answer, I have been strolling down memory lane. I must admit I have enjoyed re-setting those posts with dad!
Because of chemical concerns in C C A treated lumber, they changed to something called Copper Azole....and it sucks, it can completely rot away, even if not in contact with the ground
Moisture can still seep between that piece of metal and the post. When I installed mine 8 years ago, I set the posts inside thick plastic trash bags and then stuck them into the concrete, so there isn't any contact with the posts and the concrete. Sort of like a moisture barrier that goes underneath laminate floors. I enclosed the area underneath the deck, so nothing gets wet, anyway.
I replaced a wood deck after many a rehab with a raised paver deck....no more wood rotting, sealing, staining etc. Worth the effort and looks beautiful, plus no chance of the old dreaded termite damage which occurs in California.
I definitely feel your pain on the rotting 6x6s. I would’ve replaced them too. The reason I watched your video. I’m fixing to build a pole barn and don’t know if I want to put post in ground or not. Some say coat they are fine others say no way build on concrete. What to do, what to do....
Yeah I was dealing with the same problem a couple years ago when I was considering a pole barn. And yeah it seems like everybody has a different opinion. I think it really comes down to the soil in your area, how good the pressure treating is on the wood, and certainly seems like coating it with tar will help out.
Pole barns depend on the depth of embedment in the ground for bracing. How deep they need to be depends on the height of the building. They do have special brackets that connect the wood poles to concrete piers.
When I built my barn twenty years ago I set treated 4x4 posts in the ground. I wrapped the next eight inches of post with 6mil visclean. Then I poured a concrete floor in the barn with many of the posts encased in the concrete. I have yet to see any signs of rot although here along the gulf coast treated wood in concrete normally has a short lifespan.
Do it the way farmers do it ..they know a thing or two about wood posts and ground contact they have their age old methods of fenceposting where wood is in soil sometimes for decades and decades without any noticeable rot ..check out youtube there are plenty of examples of this "old school" approach to placing wood in the ground for fencing supports or whatever ...famers are smart guys and they know a thing or two about saving time and money and doing the job right ....
You do realize fence posts have been treated with creosote right? That is the obvious reason they last "forever". Come from a farming family so no disrespect but there is a definite technological advantage given creosote cannot be used on a residential structure
I had a 4x4 post that had been sitting in concrete for about 10 years. It literally fell over by itself. As far as I understand the problem is that the post is pretty much sitting in a pool and no matter how much you treat it, it will rot at some point.
I like the concept of no wood in concrete but so many folks putting 6x6s for pole barns in concrete. How are they supposed to do it to protect the posts?
Just thought of something, I'm going to use poly to cover around the end of the 8x8 post and trim off the poly above the ground once the concrete is dried and cured. I would think that would totally slow down the rotting process by double or triple.
@@calebfuller4713 The pressure from the wet concrete before it dries will push in towards the wood post with the plastic liner wrapped around it to minimize the space between the plastic and the wood surface, this would minimize the moisture buildup...the concrete will hold moisture a lot longer than what little moisture the wood soaks up and of course the plastic would hold no moisture other than the very tiny volume that is filling the tiny void between the plastic and the wood post which would dry out fairly quickly once the rain stopped. Tar would probably work even better like the gentleman suggested in this previous thread...that was actually a great idea that would be slightly better than the plastic protection from the moisture holding concrete since the tar is adhered directly to the wood post and will seal at the edge entirely.
If, like myself, you live in Utah or some other arid climate (unless you live next to a creek, river or lake) being concerned with rot like this is not a problem in someone’s lifetime. Thanks anyway
I've always wondered how would work to dip the bottom of the posts in some asphaltic paint or something. As if the posts was wearing socks. Some day i'll try it. Maybe it would be cheapper to buy the steel hardware tough.
some people paint their posts with a tar before placing it in the concrete. I think its about couple or few inches above the water line or splash up I think someone explained it to me years ago and I have forgotten the details. much like other construction details if you don't use it you lose it...... @@mr.c6674
Theirs a difference between "Ground Contact" & "Critical Ground Contact". Most people including builders don't know the difference. Submersing the post directly into the concrete is an acceptable method only when using the critically treated. We follow UDC building codes in WI, and this is one of the 3 acceptable methods.
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow There's different levels of treatment. You'll see a tag stapled to the end of the board with some numbers and letters. We always coat the cut ends with Woodlife Copper Coat, but ideally we place the factory end in the concrete www.decks.com/how-to/168/pressure-treated-wood
So what about fence posts? Builders use pressure treated lumber. But costwise, what would be practicle? I guess start with using a treatment for wood. I've seen people paint on a greenish liquid. But why not do fence posts with the metal.brace attached to.concrete?
I see you already ran into my other video on fence posts. lol. I guess, no problem with using wood for fences as long as you don't mind redoing it in 15 or 20 years. Really seems they rot out quicker in some areas versus others though
Also concrete is caustic to wood so even if left in an enclosed environment it will eventuall eat away at the wood, but it would take much longer with out moisture hitting it. Best way to set wood in concrete is by tarring it up to 6 inches or so above the concrete.. galvanized steel helps by gapping the wood but just depends on time and materials you decide to use.
My company Nevers sets post in cement.We always pour a pier and use anchor brackets..If we have to set in cement due to owner's,We then wrap posts with a seal tape designed for that issue..
I have seen post that has been in the ground in worst condition than that for 20 plus years and still looking good... I build decks and fences as well.
I don't feel like your place and then when I'm 70 years old. So might as well take care of it now and do it right. Why build things that only last 20 or 30 years? I have a 100 year rule. If I put my hands on it I build to last at least a hundred years.
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow The difference is that your speaking as a homeowner that understand sometimes spending a little more now can save you alot of money later. The reality is that majority of home owners wants the cheapest price. Many dont understand that different materials cost different. Ive tried to explain the different paint materials, different type of wood or designs but they want the cheapest. it is hard to sell better quality materials and work with the many different competitions who low ball and provide sub standard work. This means sometimes we have to provide basic materials and design to stay competitive.
@@temujinkhan6326 I completely agree with you. Most homeowners just look at the overall price and don't realize that they could spend more and get much better quality. Nor do they care. I can't stand to build things when I know they won't fail or deteriorate. Hence the reason I'm not in construction haha. I would lose sleep over it. True story
you could just get some preformed concrete post supports and dig them a couple inches down for lateral support. you only need to pour piles if the deck floor surface is 6 ft or more above grade
My house is 15 years old, original everything. The deck posts are buried in concrete and not any signs of rotting anywhere. I guess it depends on the quality of pressure treated wood.
Build the entire frame, especially the posts, out of titanium, with titanium feet. Surround the posts with HT concrete, with titanium rebar. No problems until at least into the next millennium.
Good Lord it's not rocket science. Dip the bottom 3' of the posts in oil and or tar coating. Cut 1" off the bottom before you set the post and add 2-3 ' of gravel to bottom of post hole before you set the post allowing water to leach away. It'll outlast you. Been doining it that way for last 40 years and never had a post rot out. Just don't get any concrete under the post so any water the post may wick would have a way of drying out by leaching out the bottom.
Great. Exactly what I need to know. So you cut an inch off the bottom after tarring the post so the bottom isn't sealed right? I bought a small 1935 house with rotting rim joists and I'm gonna make it simple on myself and convert it to 6x6 pier and beam. Do you have any other recomendations?
This. Also a lot of people have polyurethane laying around, and I can confirm that will last many years as a protective coating under ground (if it doesn't get any sun light). Your posts still have to be soaked in green treat or oil to keep bugs from eating them though
Hi, I've just dug out a 30-year-old 6x6 pressure treated post that was loose. It was 2 ft in the ground, with no cement anywhere. Just a hole with the post. The reason it was loose is the neighbor's plants roots were loosening the soil. I'm redoing the fence but the loose post has to be fixed. Why didn't it rot if it was under ground for so long? Should I use a metal footing, or just put it back in the hole with some quick-set cement?
30-year old PT wood used different preservatives that were more caustic but indeed did last longer. In contrast, I built some raised beds about 6 years ago which have 4x4 ground contact PT wood in the corners. One has completely rotted away and the others show clear signs of significant decay.
FYI, there is two types of pressure treated lumber, above grade and below grade, some patios require posts to be installed in concrete others with post brackets, I always apply an extra couple of coats of Copper-Green or Brown around the bottom of posts and any ware lumber butts up to surface, purchase from any lumber yard but be careful because the smell will linger for weeks if you get any on your clothes or skin, nasty but works! You can also use min of 3 coats of Red Guard .
honestly that timber looked 80% intact and solid through the cut piece and good for next few years, i wonder if this was wet more from your daily shower next to it made problem worse??
Yeah it definitely had plenty of life left in it. But I knew it's time who is limited and I wanted to replace it with something I would never have to worry about. And no, the outside shower has a drain that goes to a dry well
The cement post rising up from the earth is not a footer, it is a pillar. If it had a footer, it would be located at the bottom of the cement pillar but pillars in general do not require a footer. Load bearing walls need foundations and foundation walls often require a footer. Please make note to self.
Everybody I've ever worked around his always called them Footers. The bottom is belled out about 50% extra diameter on the bottom. But I suppose maybe you're right. I don't know, I'm just an auto mechanic. lol
@Richard Foran what if he wants to put a party size hot tub for entertaining? 400 Gallons of water weighs about 3300#, about the same as a midsize car. Then add the add the weight of the tub itself, an average 6 person tub about 1000#, and the people... Put 5 200# adults in there and that's another 1000#, PLUS any people just sitting on the deck... Without much effort and no frills one can quickly be looking at 5 to 6 thousand pounds. So, yeah, it could be a big load bearing structure.
any floridians on here have a preferred way. I am about to start a 16x10 patio cover with 6x6 post 4 ft in the ground because of hurticanes. I was not even thinking about termites
![BRASIL vs. PERÚ [4-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tbyOJKXfQnI/mqdefault.jpg)
You totally changed the way I planned to start a pole barn this year or any outdoor shed for that matter, thanks!
Good advice. When I built my deck myself 20 years ago, I put my posts on metal anchors on top of the concrete. I also put roofing shingles on top of the posts as well to keep water out of the top end. After all this time it’s still solid and my Trex looks new. Build it right the first time.
I'm loving the comments from all the experts below.
"I'd recommend replacing everything."
"Should've used steel beams."
"Should just cut a hole in your current deck, pour a concrete foundation for your hot tub, then put a border around your hot tub."
Important to note that even though there was some rot in the 6x6, it still had another 10 years of life left in it. The right way is keeping the post out of the concrete but in reality almost everything is overbuilt and replaced before the end of its life, usually from a remodel or demolition.
Previous deck was 6yr old, in concrete. Rot/ants were everywhere. I researched to exhaustion but settled with above concrete anchors. 6 or so years later and i have zero rot, solid as a rock. Im thankful i went with anchors. Alot easier to replace too if there ever is rot in the future.
Update: Deck is 10 years old. Still perfect. No rot whatsoever.
You guys got me cracking up so hard as I read through these comments. Love it.
Lmao
@@daviddou1408 I ended up digging all new footings and used galvanized post bases
"I don't wanna deal with it when I'm older". My man, this is the story of my life in the old house I've bought and am renovating! I keep telling my wife "I'm in my 30's now and I'm sure as heck not going to feel like doing any of this 10+ years from now, so I'm building it right or overbuilding it now." I'm currently rebuilding my decks (yes, plural) that are rotted at the ledger and house band joist, so I know exactly what you're going through with this video. Great common sense stuff man, thanks for the vid!
Yeah man for sure. Do it right do it once. And if it fails again then at least you can say you gave it your best shot
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow Too right! I'm on a sloped mountainside lot and the deck I'm currently repairing (new spreadbase footers, new 6x6s, actual beams (they laid a 2x6 on the flat at a 14' span for the middle "beam"), new hardware) and one side of the deck is about 4.5 feet off the ground while the other is about 16'. I'm going to have to pay a LOT of attention to my lateral bracing to make this sturdy. I'm also thinking of those lateral braces that Simpson makes that are basically all-thread bored through the house band joist with a bracket on a deck joist and one inside the house, preventing the deck from pulling away from the house. Your deck looks a lot lower, but do you plan on working any bracing into your design?
@@BrandonWest87 yeah my deck is only a little more than four feet off the ground. At 16 foot I would certainly make sure she has plenty of bracing. Mine is very rigid being attached to the house and I didn't see any need for additional bracing. Those Simpson strong ties are pretty amazing though. I used quite a few different Simpson steel brackets throughout mine
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow Awesome work dude. Subbed!
@@BrandonWest87 thanks man I appreciate that. Good luck on your project!
When I set wooden posts in concrete I use roofing mastic and really heavyweight plastic trash bags. I coat the wood with mastic the cover the mastic with a trash bag to above earth carefully sealing the trash bag to the post. It keeps out the water and prevents damage from the lime in the concrete. Lime rapidly ages wood (rot).
On Amazon:
*6x6 POST BASE: amzn.to/2QyJrel
*4x4 POST BASE: amzn.to/2wu7W36
*STAINLESS SIMPSON 6X6 BASE: amzn.to/39e93FJ
*USE THIS INSTEAD OF CONCRETE: amzn.to/382udWz
~UPDATE VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/fwyuAoknWJs/видео.html
Concrete has lime which breaks down organic materials like wood. If you're setting wood in concrete, you need a protective barrier so it won't rot. You can staple tar paper to the post or paint tar on it wherever it will be touching cement.
Steve Legend Nope.. Not wrong.. Lime (calcium hydroxide) is a component of cement and is a caustic powder that hastens the decay of organic matter. This is why a builder puts a layer of roofing tar paper over a foundation before laying a sill plate. Concrete rots wood.
@@huggybear539 It's only a component of poorly made cement. At my grandmother's house, the cellar and welltop my grandfather made in 1941 is still perfect today, and he made concrete out of portland cement, sand, and crushed flint.
Best video on wood vs concrete. Worth the watch.
I built a deck over 10 years ago for our above ground pool using nothing more than holes drilled in the ground with 6" of gravel packed in the bottom. I never thought we'd have the pool for 10 years and the deck is doing just fine. It is cheap and fast and disposable.
I built a Swing and Slide for my kids, I took it down last year, it had been up ten years, a lot of the ground contact wood was damaged pretty bad. I never knew. Take care
I built a 7,200sf mansion 450 years ago out of tongue depressors, used Q-Tips and Bazooka bubble gum wrappers. Starting to show a little ware........but for the most part it's holding up quite well.
Scott, That’s because you don’t know what you are doing...take care.
It’s called thinking ahead. Getting it right the first time, if you know how, is always a lot less work than having to fix it later. Before you can do better, you have to know better. Excellent video. Thanks!
yup , that is the correct time frame there.
if i had built the deck , i would have notched all four sides of the post, done a water treatment overlay, then dipped the post
[ that is going into the concrete] , then set it into place and poured the pad and let it cure.
you would not be able to remove the post. lol [ and would have lasted way longer than 8 years ] .
other people like to do the samething to shallow posts with no cement pad under the deck. same time frame [ 8 yrs ] then replace.
the steel anchor plates will do the job, and make it last longer than 8 yrs. BUT, the wood will dry out faster unless it is marine treated.. . . or painted with a sealer every 2 or 3 years.
awesome video !!
I set a piece of tile on my saddles under post .Works great for last 40 years
Just commented that. What did that guy bury them?? ASMR?
We have always use the bitumen as waterproof, never had any problems. And also all posts need to be treated with a exterior paint or other protection.
Yeah we had tract homes here in Sylmar the eves rotted out on bottom roof all around contractors are cheesy sometimes. They skip the step painting under with weatherproof paint primers.
Thanks for the video. Contractors seem to think wood to concrete is OK, but your video just reiterated to me what direction I need to go in.
Glad it helped point you in the right direction! Thanks for your comment. Wood is definitely fine in concrete as long as you don't mind replacing it 15 or 20 years later LOL. At least that's about how long it will last year in the Northeast where the ground is always moist. Out in Colorado or somewhere dry probably a different story
Those 6x6 brackets sure are expensive. I'll buy them anyway. I need to beef up my front porch columns that are 4x4 with 6x6. Thank you so much for the heads up! RUclips is great.
Some of these comments are ridic.. sure you didn't HAVE to repair it now but you are a good homeowner and share your wisdom on RUclips.. thanks for the vid man
Haha yeah seriously. I consider it more of a hobby. I enjoy repairing stuff before it breaks or deteriorates to nothing
Driveway sealer on posts below grade is one way to solve the moisture wicking issue. Cheap solution.
The posts look to be appearance grade, not meant for ground contact. Ground contact lumber is incised (injected with CCA .60 to meet AWPA UC4B). Any end cuts are treated with Copper-Green or similar products to prevent fungus, mold or insect intrusion into the wood fibers. Pole barn companies have been installing 4" x 6" and 6" x 6" treated post in the ground for decades.
What about telephone poles? They last forever. How are they treated? Railroad ties also, except they aren't buried.
@@dangrimes5078 Telephone and railroad ties are treated with creosote.
That is why they last longer. Any wood you buy will not be treated with it.
@@dangrimes5078 Telephone and railroad ties are treated with creosote.
Any wood you buy will not be treated with that. Which is why those last longer compared to store bought.
@@dangrimes5078 Those are treated with Creosote
@@HTMLRu1ezD00dI never bury wood anyway. I guess if I was building a fence I would.
Pulling that stump out with the jacks is genius
Thanks for showing this. My wife doesn't understand why I want to DIY so much (within reason) around the house. The "pros" are often amateurs with a bit more formality. That scumbag didn't even do proper footers? Jeez man. That's why I hired you! 🤔
This is true. I learned a serious lesson
Good video. I see people in Alaska building remote cabins on wood all the time and then in 10-15 years they have the same rot issues as you had.
Thanks man. And yeah it's probably tough to get concrete out there I would assume
I wish they would stop selling any treated lumber as "ground contact" because we contractors know they should always be installed with the galvanized steel bases. Nice video!
ArtisanTony yea seriously! Unless you live out in the desert or something then maybe the wood would last a lot longer.
Unlike post that were put in the ground 100 years ago. And still going strong. I have a barn with hedge post that have been there since the day the Egyptians stumbled upon the pyramids
@@drmachinewerke1 They treated those posts with lamp oil back then. We always put diesel on our wagons to store over winter on the farm. We had wagons over 50yrs old. We didn't have a shed to put them in, they stayed out in the weather.
ArtisanTony i disagree. Theres 1500 year old huge stone churhes built on pile driven timber stumps. Your steel post holder would last 20 years or less. Thats a factor of 70.
@@drmachinewerke1 the Egyptians made the pyramids didn't stumble upon them dummy
18 yrs ago I bought cheap 8ft presure treated landscape posts for a 60ft long stockade fence project. I coated them (actually I had my girlfriend do all the work) with liquid tar up 3ft. I ( girlfriend) set them in about 2 1/2 ft. I live in Buffalo NY. This fence has withstood every storm Buffalo could through at it. Last summer (2018) was the first time I did any maintenance on the fence. All the posts were still standing strong. I just had to replace a few pickets, some stain and she should be good for another 18yrs.
Last summer I put up (this time I mean me) another 60 ft length with 8ft presure treated 4×4s. I treated the bottoms up 3ft with waist motor oil. I'm guessing I should get 30+ yrs out of them.
Dude...you got your girlfriend to do the work or even help?? YOu struck gold there in a day and age where most females are lazy hypocritical wackopathic feminazis. Considering that a blessing man. You have a down to Earth ..seemingly REAL woman who isn't afraid to get her hands dirty. That's awesome! I wish you two well.
Motoryzen Ex girlfriend, no doubt.
NOT EVEN ONE YEAR IN FLORIDA NEED DOCK RATED PRESSURE TREAT TO LAST FIVE OR SIX
@@enricopallazzo3244 yes she is. We didn't breakup until years later. It was a long distance relationship and we got wore out. She was certainly a keeper and I kick myself in the ass all the time.
@@motoryzen thanks man but that was 18yrs ago and we broke up due to it was a long distance relationship. But I do seem to be able to land girls that don't mind doing projects with me. We actually have fun.
8,000 videos on RUclips about this. This is the only one I've found that shows proof.
Haha yeah for sure! Crummy video quality but I knew it was a good example of the difference so I had to shoot a quick clip
not convinced, now had he cut the base of the post off which he will have to do to install a metal riser, he could've shown us the complete rot and if the middle of the post was just as bad then hed have a good case
I tar my posts and drill in screws to hold a bit extra before I put em in the concrete, over 20 years and no issue with rot.
I soaked my 4x4 softwood fence posts in creosote for a month before I set them and made sure there was proper drainage in the bottom of the concrete. I have done nothing to them since 1985 and they are absolutely solid.
I built a ground-level deck a couple of years ago which is also covered. (The posts for the cover are on cement piers with metal footings.) I didn't have the benefit of this video, but I tried to make it to last. I used 6x6 barn timbers which have a higher level and type of preservative. I soaked all cut pieces in copper green and once dried put two coats of weatherproofing stain and sealer on it. The bottom of the holes does have concrete, but the posts are not embedded in it. I lined the holes with 2 layers of heavy-duty weed cloth (to keep soil from slowly migrating to the posts) and then filled the space with 1-1/2 inch round river rock which holds them in place incredibly well. The weed cloth then covers the over the rock at the top and another small layer of rock covers that. My thinking is that the round river rock provides excellent drainage as well as airflow and will keep water and soil away from the wood thus preventing any rotting. If I was to do it again, I would have covered the base concrete layer with 1/4-10 gravel without fines to provide even more drainage. I would also have used a tar emulsion to coat the posts which I had intended to do but forgot, then covered the post at the ground level with a plastic barrier made for that purpose, which I wasn't aware of at the time. This summer I have to replace a couple of sections of fence, and this is the approach I'll be using for that (without the concrete base) and using 4x6 ground-contact PT wood posts.
Best practice in our country (Vietnam) is to place the wood on a stone or a concrete bed higher than the ground. Higher than the ground is the key point. My grandpa’s house is older than me (>30) and still looks perfect
Your English is better than many native born Americans. Then again, look at who they elected president.
@@frankmiller95 Biden wasn’t elected. He also has 50 years in DC. It’s literally all his fault. I could care less about anyone’s English. That’s the problem. It’s not a popularity contest it’s about the future of the country. Sooner you figure that out the better.
I had a deck built about 23-24 years ago and they embedded the 6x6 in concrete (it was code back then) and some of the footers are rotting or rotted and I have to deal with this crap now (will never put wood into concrete after seeing the rot). When I was doing some termite treatment around the foundation of my home I had to remove some deck boards and found the deck builder took some shortcuts. They did not install ledger flashing, did not install washers on the ledger screws, did not use corner brackets on a couple boards and only installed 1 lag screw (code now require bolts and nuts for rail post) on posts that supports the railing. I will be bringing the deck up to current code. The deck is strong and has held up for 23+ years and survived an earthquake here in the MD. I will be bringing the deck and porch up to current code where applicable. This is why I never let any contractor do any work at my house now that I have the skills and tools to do all the work. I just don't trust their work, especially work you can't see.
Dude I love how you think.. just like my pops... he built fences for 6-7 years.. never put wood in concrete! We’re building a fence here at my home next month can’t wait...may be going with that western cedar
Awesome! Good luck on your build. And yeah Western Cedar is definitely the way to go
There are (or used to be) some posts made for ground contact. Ive torn out 20 year old decks(told by homeowner) and all of the joists was touching the ground and none of them had rott or insect damage. You probably wont find it at lowes and HD but a proper lumber yard should have some
Pressure treated wood will last about 5-10 years at best. The old stuff was impregnated with creosote, it would leach out over time leaving sticky black tar marks on the wood. It's also quite toxic and can't be bought over in Europe any more.
Using a good hardwood like cedar would help too, but that adds cost.
Pressure treated lumber will last way longer than that. Ive seen some over 20 years old still a good as it was new. The sun is what wrecks havoc on it. And they never used creosote on deck lumber that I've ever used. I believe That's only in railroad ties and utility poles. Deck lumber used to have arsenic and is called CCA lumber. and why you won't find it anymore. It changed to ACQ and mcq.. Alkaline copper quarternary. And MCQ micro copper quarternary.
The downside to these is you have to use stainless steel or hot dipped galvanized fasteners or the fastener will rust away in a year.
You are exactly right. There are different specs for wood treatment and you can't get the good stuff from lowes or home depot. Wood pilings and power poles have a different grade of treatment than typical lumber. Some people with saw mills aquire the material from contractors and power company's and saw it into lumber.
Im a DIYer and know for a fact a lot of contractors will rip you off. I think the original home owner did a pretty good job, especially if he did it himself, I believe you have that proud ownership thing going on in your head and need every little thing to be like fort knox
joseph walls I don't know if that's a compliment or not but I'll take it as one. LOL. :) but you're correct for sure, I like to build everything to last a minimum of 100 years. That's my goal for anything I put my hands on.
joseph walls I mentioned in the video that this would have last for many years to come. But I have plans to be putting more weight load on this deck, so I wanted to make sure that the Footers were proper. Which they were not. Also, once the wood is opened up like that from slight rot, the insects really like to get in there and eat up that soft moist wood! The pressure treating only goes so far. That rot is past the pressure treating of those 6x6
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow you can see that small split at 2:24 is starting to open up as it rots more. Looks like the base of that one you pulled up was probably a cut end that wasn't retreated before putting into the ground, it's almost all gone.
By the looks of things, the rest of the deck's not too far behind. Haven't seen one last more than 15 years without needing serious repairs. That's the nature of pressure treated SPF, regardless where it's installed. It's junk. I would have just left it for a few more years and replaced the whole thing with cedar. "Do it right" ;)
I'm a carpenter and I wouldn't mind repairing it for a customer but I would not find it to be a repair that needed immediate attention if it were my deck. I can't be more than 22"-24" off of the ground. If it was a second story deck I would be concerned. The funny thing is the stairs with all different rises. That would worry me and especially the way that they are hung. That's an issue worth addressing.
agreed
@@graphguy Thanks for seeing that!
still though 8 years later, going ok. For me I'd be happy enough with that, and it would last maybe 12-14 years before needing replacing. Agree though steel best way.
Thing is, I had a similar problem, previous owner just put the railing post on the ground. Look clean enough from the outside, first thing you know railing broke under very minimal pressure and we discover a carpenter ants nest inside it. The structure was 15 years old. Other part who were done correctly are still good. Building a deck is quite expensive, why would you want it to last only 15 years, if the same structure just footed properly coul last 10 years more ?
Thanks, I always wondered what technique was better. I remember the old school guys always putting it in concrete. Very glad to have come across this.
well; I have a 12x20 deck me & dad built 32 years ago treated 4x4 2x10 frame posts set below frost line wood was treated from requarth lumber company Dayton ohio which they treat there lumber in house still solid today
The 4" of rock caused the rot. I dug up a post that had been set in concrete for 40 years and no rot. The concrete top needed to drain off.
That's because laws these days ban the use of the chemicals they used to use to treat wood being inserted into the ground.
Today we arent allowed to treat wood with things like used motor oil (legally) and so wood in ground does not last nearly as long. That same post installed 10 years ago instead would be rotten through.
As far as the quality of treated posts I have seen creosote posts put in concrete that were in good shape when installed . The concrete caused them to rot in short order. High line poles 10 inch in diameter.
The wife watering the flowers and the whole decking is to blame lol
lol
Don't just blame the concrete. The quality of treated ground contact lumber/posts has gone way down in the last 10-15 years.
yes it has they have remove the cyanide from it with was the only real active ingredient for both bugs and funguses.
I thought the same thing but have gained a few years and was blaming my memory or someofthetimers
Not just the quality of treatments. There's a genuine decline of, and genuine lack of quality in so many things we used to take for granted. Bad leadership ( mostly in government ), has been the biggest problem with outsourcing our jobs and materials to other countries, leaving us with nothing but low quality, very high prices, and much aggravation. So, I'm all for removing and replacing our sitting federal government. This year. 💪🇺🇸🇺🇸👍 Y'all have a great weekend 👍🇺🇸
I think 2004 before then ground contact lumber would last 25 -30 years sometimes now they say 8 - 12 years
Thx buddy I was about to take a short cut but your video has made me change my mind 👍
Waterproof stain it, then tar it. When your ready to put the wood in the hole, don't forget to put a rock in the hole to raise the dimension of weed. I mean wood that you choose so the cement will fill the rest. Use hempcreete if you can in your area. Put enough cement in the hole till your above the grade about 2". (I don't mean grade 2, i mean 2 inches above anything around it within a few feet. Let it dry or simmer (cure) for 3 days and keep it dampened with a hose, or urine (
It's not just the moisture that causes rot. The lime in the concrete will also be wicked into the wood with the moisture to contribute to the rot. I always use tar-based basement waterproofing on the concrete before the post for repairs; There's a whole story about that... My deck needed a couple of new posts 20 years ago and did as mentioned. I replaced the whole thing recently. The "temporary" repair lasted 20 years, and still was not needing replacement. There is no such thing as "ground contact" PT wood unless you do it yourself, the old way. It is no more toxic to the environment than the chemicals in PT lumber. Cheers.
0:58 The post on the far left didn't rot because it's not set in concrete? Because the (unmentioned) metal bracket gives a gap?
Good video, my friend. My dad had 2 rules he would NEVER compromise concerning wooden posts. 1.) 4 feet deep. 2.) No concrete. During my childhood, I bet we dug over 100 post holes. (Spread over several years time.) Every single one of our posts were tamped using the dirt & rocks we originally took out of the hole. Like you said- good as new. To this day, I cringe when someone mentions 'concreting' their posts...
Why 4 ft?
@@AlexA-zg7mq Hahahaha. That is EXACTLY the same question we kids were asking as we dug the holes... All jokes aside though -
Dad always said '4 ft. may be a bit much, but those things won't go anywhere.'
You see, we ran several head of livestock and my dad did not want the corner posts of the fencing to budge. (Animals have a way of tearing up cheap fences quickly.) And my dad hated to have to redo a job. (As do I.)
We also built a pole barn using that depth. Our posts were old telephone poles. So, we could set 'em deep and customize the perfect height above-ground. Those poles were like Fort Knox. They weren't going anywhere.
My dad was not a general contractor, nor a licensed carpenter. However, some 40 years later, I can honestly testify that all those posts we set (fences, as well as buildings) have out-lived my dad.
Something my dad taught us growing up - overkill means only having to do it once.
Thanks for the question. While typing this answer, I have been strolling down memory lane. I must admit I have enjoyed re-setting those posts with dad!
Great idea using bottle jacks.
This is good video man. I'll make sure I put loads of thick tar at the bottom of the post. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Thanks buddy. And yeah that's a good call!
Because of chemical concerns in C C A treated lumber, they changed to something called Copper Azole....and it sucks, it can completely rot away, even if not in contact with the ground
I was going to do that. Glad I watched.
In my area the code for buried post is to use a T brace at bottom of post , gravel 3 to 4 inches on bottom and sand instead of concrete .
Great to see a vid walkthrough on the outdoor shower
Haha I think you're the first person to say that out of 900,000 view!
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow it’s a cool shower, I would like to honestly try and build it.
cut the deck to put some pier blocks under the cut footers. that'll keep water from wicking up in the wood.
Yeah that's a nice solution for sure! Unfortunately I'm plagued with over killing things all the time. It's just a problem I have
Moisture can still seep between that piece of metal and the post. When I installed mine 8 years ago, I set the posts inside thick plastic trash bags and then stuck them into the concrete, so there isn't any contact with the posts and the concrete. Sort of like a moisture barrier that goes underneath laminate floors. I enclosed the area underneath the deck, so nothing gets wet, anyway.
I replaced a wood deck after many a rehab with a raised paver deck....no more wood rotting, sealing, staining etc. Worth the effort and looks beautiful, plus no chance of the old dreaded termite damage which occurs in California.
Wouldn't that apply only to a ground level deck?
Great video man..Thanks for the heads up to the uninformed! I will definately be taking this vid into consideration when constructing my deck.
You're not building a skyscraper, it's just a deck! But I get your point.
I just used pier blocks and left a little above the ground. I have never had a problem in over 30 years.
"I don't want to deal with this thing when I'm older". Wise thinking
I definitely feel your pain on the rotting 6x6s. I would’ve replaced them too. The reason I watched your video. I’m fixing to build a pole barn and don’t know if I want to put post in ground or not. Some say coat they are fine others say no way build on concrete. What to do, what to do....
Yeah I was dealing with the same problem a couple years ago when I was considering a pole barn. And yeah it seems like everybody has a different opinion. I think it really comes down to the soil in your area, how good the pressure treating is on the wood, and certainly seems like coating it with tar will help out.
NoNonsenseKnowHow awesome!!! Thanks for the reply.
I am currently in the same boat. Definitely good side by side comparison. I still don’t know what to do though. I am located in middle TN.
Pole barns depend on the depth of embedment in the ground for bracing. How deep they need to be depends on the height of the building. They do have special brackets that connect the wood poles to concrete piers.
When I built my barn twenty years ago I set treated 4x4 posts in the ground. I wrapped the next eight inches of post with 6mil visclean. Then I poured a concrete floor in the barn with many of the posts encased in the concrete. I have yet to see any signs of rot although here along the gulf coast treated wood in concrete normally has a short lifespan.
A barn has a roof. This deck does not.
@@williambrandondavis6897 We're not talking rain damage, we're talking damage from the lime in the concrete.
@@71160000 That's funny. You have never heard of white wash apparently? Lime preserves wood. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewash
Do it the way farmers do it ..they know a thing or two about wood posts and ground contact they have their age old methods of fenceposting where wood is in soil sometimes for decades and decades without any noticeable rot ..check out youtube there are plenty of examples of this "old school" approach to placing wood in the ground for fencing supports or whatever ...famers are smart guys and they know a thing or two about saving time and money and doing the job right ....
You do realize fence posts have been treated with creosote right? That is the obvious reason they last "forever". Come from a farming family so no disrespect but there is a definite technological advantage given creosote cannot be used on a residential structure
This guy is awesome. This is real in the field. The metal connector 1 inch stand off is the way to go.
I had a 4x4 post that had been sitting in concrete for about 10 years. It literally fell over by itself. As far as I understand the problem is that the post is pretty much sitting in a pool and no matter how much you treat it, it will rot at some point.
I like the concept of no wood in concrete but so many folks putting 6x6s for pole barns in concrete. How are they supposed to do it to protect the posts?
Just thought of something, I'm going to use poly to cover around the end of the 8x8 post and trim off the poly above the ground once the concrete is dried and cured. I would think that would totally slow down the rotting process by double or triple.
I would just use a tar or something equivalent like many Below have mentioned. I think that would be better
How do you stop your little plastic cover from collecting rain and working like a bucket to soak your pole in water?
@@calebfuller4713 The pressure from the wet concrete before it dries will push in towards the wood post with the plastic liner wrapped around it to minimize the space between the plastic and the wood surface, this would minimize the moisture buildup...the concrete will hold moisture a lot longer than what little moisture the wood soaks up and of course the plastic would hold no moisture other than the very tiny volume that is filling the tiny void between the plastic and the wood post which would dry out fairly quickly once the rain stopped. Tar would probably work even better like the gentleman suggested in this previous thread...that was actually a great idea that would be slightly better than the plastic protection from the moisture holding concrete since the tar is adhered directly to the wood post and will seal at the edge entirely.
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow The tar is actually a great idea and even better!!! Nice suggestion!
If, like myself, you live in Utah or some other arid climate (unless you live next to a creek, river or lake) being concerned with rot like this is not a problem in someone’s lifetime. Thanks anyway
Arizona =)
Yep. I've seen it. Even a piece of asphalt roofing would have helped.
The asphalt shingle trick...I thought I was the only guy that cheap! (or ingenious?!)
I've always wondered how would work to dip the bottom of the posts in some asphaltic paint or something. As if the posts was wearing socks. Some day i'll try it. Maybe it would be cheapper to buy the steel hardware tough.
Always put grease or motor oil in the hole and around the base of the post prior to using post create or cement.
A wooden post will never rot out.
I was thinking that tar or chain saw oil. Something diesel oil
Are you saying with adding oil or grease the wood can then be anchored in the concrete? I was considering it but after this video, I'm not so sure 😮
some people paint their posts with a tar before placing it in the concrete. I think its about couple or few inches above the water line or splash up I think someone explained it to me years ago and I have forgotten the details. much like other construction details if you don't use it you lose it...... @@mr.c6674
Theirs a difference between "Ground Contact" & "Critical Ground Contact". Most people including builders don't know the difference. Submersing the post directly into the concrete is an acceptable method only when using the critically treated. We follow UDC building codes in WI, and this is one of the 3 acceptable methods.
I haven't heard of critical ground contact Lumber. But I'm sure it exists like you say. Don't think it can be found very easy around my way though
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow There's different levels of treatment. You'll see a tag stapled to the end of the board with some numbers and letters. We always coat the cut ends with Woodlife Copper Coat, but ideally we place the factory end in the concrete www.decks.com/how-to/168/pressure-treated-wood
Great video! Covered a lot! Good stuff. I didnt know you can pull up a support post!
WOW GREAT VIDEO VERY EDUCATIONAL 👍👍
6x6 with salt water treatment have lasted on my pole barn for over 30 yrs
Hi bud, what's Salt Water Treatment?
@@smartchip That where it's treated with salt water.
Pole barn has a roof, makes all the difference.
@@williambrandondavis6897 Everyone knows that. The point is ground contact.
Thank you! This video was informative and helpful. Greetings from Bosnia!
No problem and thanks for the comment! Greetings from Pennsylvania
Thanks for the post. Great examples.
So what about fence posts? Builders use pressure treated lumber. But costwise, what would be practicle? I guess start with using a treatment for wood. I've seen people paint on a greenish liquid. But why not do fence posts with the metal.brace attached to.concrete?
I see you already ran into my other video on fence posts. lol. I guess, no problem with using wood for fences as long as you don't mind redoing it in 15 or 20 years. Really seems they rot out quicker in some areas versus others though
Like in the desert, would in the ground is no problem
Also concrete is caustic to wood so even if left in an enclosed environment it will eventuall eat away at the wood, but it would take much longer with out moisture hitting it. Best way to set wood in concrete is by tarring it up to 6 inches or so above the concrete.. galvanized steel helps by gapping the wood but just depends on time and materials you decide to use.
My company Nevers sets post in cement.We always pour a pier and use anchor brackets..If we have to set in cement due to owner's,We then wrap posts with a seal tape designed for that issue..
I have seen post that has been in the ground in worst condition than that for 20 plus years and still looking good... I build decks and fences as well.
I don't feel like your place and then when I'm 70 years old. So might as well take care of it now and do it right. Why build things that only last 20 or 30 years? I have a 100 year rule. If I put my hands on it I build to last at least a hundred years.
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow The difference is that your speaking as a homeowner that understand sometimes spending a little more now can save you alot of money later. The reality is that majority of home owners wants the cheapest price. Many dont understand that different materials cost different. Ive tried to explain the different paint materials, different type of wood or designs but they want the cheapest. it is hard to sell better quality materials and work with the many different competitions who low ball and provide sub standard work. This means sometimes we have to provide basic materials and design to stay competitive.
@@temujinkhan6326 I completely agree with you. Most homeowners just look at the overall price and don't realize that they could spend more and get much better quality. Nor do they care. I can't stand to build things when I know they won't fail or deteriorate. Hence the reason I'm not in construction haha. I would lose sleep over it. True story
Wow,thanks for sharing, i was about to Concrete on my post...
So was I. What did you end up doing?
You seem knowledgeable enough, just demo it and build the one you want. The right way.
you could just get some preformed concrete post supports and dig them a couple inches down for lateral support. you only need to pour piles if the deck floor surface is 6 ft or more above grade
Good idea. I like the look of the piers though
My house is 15 years old, original everything. The deck posts are buried in concrete and not any signs of rotting anywhere. I guess it depends on the quality of pressure treated wood.
Yeah definitely depends on the type of pressure treating. Also moisture content in the ground
Build the entire frame, especially the posts, out of titanium, with titanium feet. Surround the posts with HT concrete, with titanium rebar. No problems until at least into the next millennium.
I wold give this 10 thus up if I could. I really have a lot of respect for people who can and will do this kind of work!
I don’t want to deal when I’m older . ( very true) I like it .👍
Good Lord it's not rocket science. Dip the bottom 3' of the posts in oil and or tar coating. Cut 1" off the bottom before you set the post and add 2-3 ' of gravel to bottom of post hole before you set the post allowing water to leach away. It'll outlast you. Been doining it that way for last 40 years and never had a post rot out. Just don't get any concrete under the post so any water the post may wick would have a way of drying out by leaching out the bottom.
Great. Exactly what I need to know. So you cut an inch off the bottom after tarring the post so the bottom isn't sealed right? I bought a small 1935 house with rotting rim joists and I'm gonna make it simple on myself and convert it to 6x6 pier and beam. Do you have any other recomendations?
Kirby Road, are you saying one could use recycled motor oil as a wood preservative vs purchasing a wood preservative like Copper Naphthanate?
Can you share a video of what you mean. Thank you.
Nowadays you can use something called PostSaver
This. Also a lot of people have polyurethane laying around, and I can confirm that will last many years as a protective coating under ground (if it doesn't get any sun light). Your posts still have to be soaked in green treat or oil to keep bugs from eating them though
Hi, I've just dug out a 30-year-old 6x6 pressure treated post that was loose. It was 2 ft in the ground, with no cement anywhere. Just a hole with the post. The reason it was loose is the neighbor's plants roots were loosening the soil. I'm redoing the fence but the loose post has to be fixed. Why didn't it rot if it was under ground for so long? Should I use a metal footing, or just put it back in the hole with some quick-set cement?
30-year old PT wood used different preservatives that were more caustic but indeed did last longer. In contrast, I built some raised beds about 6 years ago which have 4x4 ground contact PT wood in the corners. One has completely rotted away and the others show clear signs of significant decay.
FYI, there is two types of pressure treated lumber, above grade and below grade, some patios require posts to be installed in concrete others with post brackets, I always apply an extra couple of coats of Copper-Green or Brown around the bottom of posts and any ware lumber butts up to surface, purchase from any lumber yard but be careful because the smell will linger for weeks if you get any on your clothes or skin, nasty but works! You can also use min of 3 coats of Red Guard .
honestly that timber looked 80% intact and solid through the cut piece and good for next few years, i wonder if this was wet more from your daily shower next to it made problem worse??
Yeah it definitely had plenty of life left in it. But I knew it's time who is limited and I wanted to replace it with something I would never have to worry about. And no, the outside shower has a drain that goes to a dry well
The cement post rising up from the earth is not a footer, it is a pillar. If it had a footer, it would be located at the bottom of the cement pillar but pillars in general do not require a footer. Load bearing walls need foundations and foundation walls often require a footer. Please make note to self.
Everybody I've ever worked around his always called them Footers. The bottom is belled out about 50% extra diameter on the bottom. But I suppose maybe you're right. I don't know, I'm just an auto mechanic. lol
I heard put stones at the bottom will solve the problem? anchors have their problem too
Some guys will tear down a house to put paint on the walls
Yeah, I'm definitely that guy
@Richard Foran what if he wants to put a party size hot tub for entertaining? 400 Gallons of water weighs about 3300#, about the same as a midsize car. Then add the add the weight of the tub itself, an average 6 person tub about 1000#, and the people... Put 5 200# adults in there and that's another 1000#, PLUS any people just sitting on the deck... Without much effort and no frills one can quickly be looking at 5 to 6 thousand pounds. So, yeah, it could be a big load bearing structure.
More fun that way!😁
@@NoNonsenseKnowHow me too
@@sandrakrytus5809 then you have to get it engineer and permits
Wonder if that outside post was a replacement, possibly from wife watering flowers?
any floridians on here have a preferred way. I am about to start a 16x10 patio cover with 6x6 post 4 ft in the ground because of hurticanes. I was not even thinking about termites
Hot tub rated decks should have double joists or 12 inc on ctr
What if you tar the portion that'll be in concrete? I'm sinking 6x6es into concrete 4 feet underground to stabilize a dock, want it to last 30 years
That will help tremendously