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Banned Mormon Cartoon REACTION!
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- Опубликовано: 7 ноя 2018
- Once upon a time, a RUclips channel decided to publish a video that they titled "Banned Mormon Cartoon." The video is an excerpt from a 1982 anti-Mormon film called The God Makers. The title is meant to deceive viewers to believe that the cartoon was made by Mormons and has since been banned. As both Kwaku and Ian pointed out, no one really 'banned' this cartoon and it certainly wasn't made by Latter-day Saints (members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, otherwise known as the Mormon Church).
Kwaku and Ian react to the video and share what they believe is true and false in regards to the representation of the Church. Because there are many falsities and because we didn't respond to all of them, we've provided links to resources better explain the falsities from the video:
Fair Mormon Banned Mormon Cartoon: bit.ly/2OsJDJD
What did you think of the video? And our reactions? How would you have reacted?? 😂
ALSO, WE LOVED HAVING IAN BACK FOR THIS EPISODE. We miss him and love him. Show him some love.
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There are plenty of christians who believe that Lucifer is a fallen angel, so this really shouldn't bother anyone too much.
Saints Unscripted is the good mythical morning of LDS
Yes
Literally
The perfect mix of my favorite things 👌 😂😂
A cheesy, smarmy, overzealous good mythical morning... At least the guys at GMM have a shtick. These kids are selling it hard...& its cotton candy after a rain storm. Like a guy you have one date with and he wants to marry you and you have already decided he is too desperate for a second date. Then again, you have to sell this crap like an 'AS IS' used car.
That is EXACTLY what i was about to say!
9:00 your church taught for over 180 years that black skin was a curse because of actions in a pre mortal life. It was taught as official church doctrine as revelation from the lord, not a matter of opinion. At the time that piece of animation was produced, that part WAS indeed an accurate reflection of Mormon beliefs
That is true. It was incorrect, however. It is a good thing we believe in continuing revelation.
@@Rod_Johnson-Moroni-Saw-Me it was not incorrect. At the time the animation was produced it was 100% accurate regarding that belief
@@francescogorbechov4192 not that it was not believed by some members of the Church, but that the belief itself is incorrect. God's people are just as susceptible to false beliefs as other people. It's just horrible when Saints accept false things as the truth instead of seeking light from God.
@@Rod_Johnson-Moroni-Saw-Me ok… but the church taught as official divinely revealed doctrine for over 180 years that black skin was a curse due to unrighteous actions in a pre mortal life. Instead of saints unscripted just being deceptive and just saying “we don’t believe that”, they should acknowledge that at the time the peace of animation was produced, the part regarding the belief that black skin is a curse was accurate, but the church has changed its doctrine and no longer teaches this.
@@francescogorbechov4192 that was never Church doctrine. That teaching was leftover relics of Protestantism that took longer to get away from than the other false teachings regarding Blacks. There never was or has been an official doctrine of the Church that teaches that Blacks are less valiant spirit children of God. Individuals in the Church have and still do teach those things, however.
"Mormon Jesus" is soooooo redundant. JuSt sAy Jesus
They don't consider it the Biblical Jesus.
Faye Lewis I fail to see how that is radically different from your belief. According to you, Satan is an angel created by God who fell and Jesus is God’s son. Both, then are creations of God.
I'm still learning the mormon faith, so correct me if I'm wrong. Here are my questions and thoughts on mormonism:
1) If God was a created being then who created him? Another God? And another God created that God? So on to infinity..? In that case, are there infinity many "gods" without a beginning?
My thoughts: Since the universe had a beginning, it must have have an *immatetial* cause that exists beyond space and time. Reality requires ultimate explanation that does not need to be explained by anything else or what we could call "unlimited" being or "existence" itself. This the reason why athiests becomes thiests.
2) If we can become "gods" then wouldn't that contradict the belief that there is only ONE God? Sin entered the world because Adam and Eve disobeyed God out of the desire to Be like him - all-powerful, unlimited, perfect, lacks nothing, ect (basically the definition of God). If we could be his peers (become gods and goddesses) God wouldn't be All-powerful in that sense because we'd be equal to him.
“I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." -Isaiah 44:6
Stephanie le To get a fuller and credible answer: Ask the Missionaries.
@@zenosvillondo9733 They'll say, "because the BOM or one of the prophets said so." Cliché answer. The notion that God was created is not logical.
Someone sent that cartoon to me many years ago and was like, “This is what you believe right?” I’m like “um, …no.” Lol
I've watched the Jehovah's Witnesses version of the same video produced by the same people and it's incredibly accurate (admittedly I do know much more about the Watchtower than the LDS church) so idk, these people and their weird He-man style cartoons are pretty damn accurate -- this video in question notwithstanding.
Mormanism is false
Kwaku: I wish I could be joined by other hosts
Ian: Hello there
g e n e r a l k e n o b i
Extremely honored to be compared to obiwan
@@ianforsyth7804 anytime bro
The Adam-god theory was preached as doctrine by your prophet Brigham Young. And the idea that darker skinned people were less valiant in the pre-existence was a widespread belief among Mormons into the 80's and 90's.
Best comment so far.
Both of these are not official Church doctrine
L
Sounds more like an offshoot of Mormons that disobeyed the original Church.
Mormons who believe in Prejudice are not ordinary Mormons, Jews who believe in Christ are not ordinary Jews, Christians who believe in Purgatory are not ordinary Christians.
Religious Schisms and Theological Revolutions are not exclusively associated with Mormons.
Look at the entire history of Christianity:
Christians originally began as Messianic Jews but eventually became Catholics, Orthodoxists, and Protestants.
These young guys mocking an old video not even realizing the history of their own church.
The interesting part is that the information in this "banned Mormon cartoon" actually tells a story that parallels ancient Egyptian beliefs of the relationship between the god Ra, his two sons Osiris and Set, and Osiris' son Horus....sooo maybe they got confused? LOL!...but people don't investigate information on their own so I'm not at all surprised that folks believed it to be actual LDS doctrine.
YES!!!! What's also worth noting is that it's not just mormonism either. It's also all of christianity. They "stole" all of their doctrines, stories, beliefs, and so on from more ancient religions that came before them too. One of them also being the beliefs of an ancient Egyptian religion that they "copied" for the lore of Genesis in the old testament.
@@yitoproductions that's ridiculous and completely unfounded. The Bible didn't borrow anything from ancient Egypt. Most secular historians believe Jewish people were never even enslaved there yet they're also willing to say in the same sentence that Jewish people borrowed from ancient Egyptian writings. Which one is it?
@@apostolicwatchman8824 Hey if anything I am just as surprised as you are. I was watching a review for the horror movie Midsommar by the RUclips channel Comic Book Girl 19, which the movie itself has nothing to do with Christianity or religion in general, and out of nowhere Danika (the young lady who runs the channel and made the video) made a comparison with one of the fictional characters in the film to Christianity and how ironic it was that the writer/director Ari Aster decided to include that in his film. I didn’t watch the review hoping for her to go anti-Christianity and further support my own bias. I watched her review because I loved the movie, and I love her so I wanted to hear her thoughts on it and when I saw that part about Christianity it really threw me off guard since I was NOT expecting that at all. Turns out everything she did say is true and I hold it as fact to this day. I am really happy she mentioned it in her video and that I now have this crucial piece of information, since I am “kinda” against Christianity, but the way that information was given to me was completely unintentional. It just happened and that was that. I highly suggest watching that video to see for yourself that I am not bullshitting you. I could send you a link if you want.
@@yitoproductions you can if you want to, but in all honesty, I've heard so many vague theories I've lost count. Can you give me a legitimate reason for why a person wouldn't want to emulate Jesus?
@@apostolicwatchman8824 Well, no I cannot give a legitimate reason why someone shouldn’t emulate Jesus, because there’s no denying that he leaves a huge impact on society and a lot of people’s lives. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be like him. If anything, I think it should be encouraged more in a healthy matter, but just like Spider-Man, Batman, or Superman (or any superhero really) they are just stories. Fairytales to inspire a generation to be good. Just like Jesus Christ. They shouldn’t be taken too literally or too seriously, since they are still filled with tons of holes and flaws due to fallible people creating them, but religion has always been taken to the next level. It has always been taken to the extreme. Always have and always will. With superheroes though, they are “usually” taken just at face value, and nothing more and it still manages to get the message across. However, there are obviously exceptions still and I’m sure there are tons of examples of people who take superheroes and comic books to the extreme, but the point is that it’s even MORE likely and even MORE common to find extremists when it comes to religion, than it is when it comes to superheroes or anything that has to do with movies, stories, or books. It’s not healthy and it’s a toxic mindset that more people need to be aware of so we could make genuine progress with humanity and the entire world.
Many things your "debunking" were taught as doctrine by earlier prophets
_Correct!_
Very true, I realized the same thing. I wouldn’t doubt that all of the material from this video is based on something said by church leaders or members. Except there’s always been a difference between opinions or ideas expressed by church leaders and official church doctrine. A good example is the argument between James E. Talmage and Joseph Fielding Smith about whether or not there was death before the fall of Adam. They both had opinions and made statements but the church didn’t have established doctrine until James E Talmage delivered “The Earth and Man” which the church took as its official position. Just things to consider.
Can you give an example about the official doctrine of the church that was showned in the video? And can you also give the specific source of information?
@tomyourmom I just listed one, is that not enough? I can certainly do more but it's been a long time since I made this comment I'd have to re-watch their entire erroneous video
Where in the doctrines and what versus are you talking about?
“The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the pre‑mortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality.”
George Albert Smith, Official Statement of First Presidency issued on August 17, 1951
You don’t have to lie about it. You can simply say it was once a belief, but is no longer taught.
You are quoting an inter hoax that claims to be an Official First Presidency Statement, but the only two statements on race were made in 1907 and 1968.
@@brettmajeske3525and what about 1978... when black folk were FINALLY "allowed" temple endowments and sealings?
@@CaptPeon @CaptPeon The 1978 revelation didn't comment on the nature of race relations, beyond noting that the blessings of the priesthood would be made available to all based only on worthiness. The 1907 and 1968 statements are the only official commentary on race relations during the period of the restriction.
The so called 1951 First Presidency Statement is an internet hoax, no such official publication was made in 1951, nor 1947, or any of the other alleged dates given to the hoax.
Y'all know nothing about your own history. Just please actually look up and learn your history to see what your historical Mormon doctrine was.
This is so bad. Wow. It's like someone played telephone for a year before deciding to make a cartoon with barely a shred of knowledge on what they were talking about. Like most of "exmormon" content I guess.
This documentary was made by an evangelical who really disliked the church. I watched the full thing. It featured some church critics who refused to join the sequel he did because the first was just a hatchet-job and had so many lies/inaccuracies.
They should react to Christian Metal bands like Stryper.
This film was actually made by members of the Church at the time.
Then they should read the real testament, which is called....The Silmarillion.
@@rickrichards166
Source pleeze that they were current members.
Don’t know if it’s a try not to smile or laugh challenge or try not to cry challenge.
I’ve had this video sent to me a couple of times and I haven’t bothered to respond to it, but I’m just gonna send that document. Thank you guys ❤️
Hahahahahaha!!!!! This is so cringy. I guarantee that's not produced by anybody of authority from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Also, nobody from the church calls Christ the "Mormon Jesus". It's completely disrespectful and just wrong.
OMGosh so true!
Its from the Godmakers
I do
While it may seem disrespectful to you. You believe a different form of Jesus than Christians.
Slidingheart82 because we don’t believe in the trinity but believe that they are three separate distinct beings but one in purpose. We read the Bible just like every other Christian religion
You have no have no idea how many times I’ve watched this and had gotten scared 😂 thanks for clearing this up!
Deception and lying is there anything else Mormon pass off as apologetics? According to revelations of Mormon prophets you god was a polygamist. THAT IS WHAT WAS TAUGHT AS DOCTRINE! Do not lie. You said you did not want Christians to like and you just lied. Notably Brigham Young, John Taylor, Joseph F. Smith taught that as doctrine. It is in the Journal of Discourses. Why are you lying?
While you are at it, why tell us that the Joseph Smith thought people lived on the moon and Brigham thought that people lived on the sun ... Now that is real funny, not like the contrived laughter
Celestial intercourse - I think they mean intercourse in heaven which causes spirit babies. That is what they seem to mean.
HE WAS AN ANGEL??? Is Kwaku making up p00p. No he was a spirit child not an angel. How did Moroni become an angel??? He was not married and went to the celestial kingdom! Kwaku is one of the worst and make up bull. You can never rely on the 3 Mormons to just provide the truth about anything. Lie lie lie.
There was a council of gods who heard the plans of salvation. There is nothing about a vote. So to say there was not vote is an error. THAT IS AN OPINION. Many mormons believe there was a vote but I do not believe there is anything specific about that particular aspect. However, just because it was in that video, and you want to find something to disagree with, you chose it. If a Mormon has said that you would have been ok with it. This is deception.
Ok the one about black skin is not true. But you guys gaslighted it immediately. You said that even Lucifer was the child of god. They NEVER SAID THAT BLACKS WERE THE CHILD OF SATAN. However, you did not even mention the curse of Cain and the curse of cain which mormons teach as doctrine which is not taught anymore but remains doctrine. Again you were deceiving everyone here.
Stop making stupid faces. Yes, the most valiant in the battle were destined to be born to Mormon families. This was from the Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual chapter 6 in the 1970s!!! Please please stop making stupid faces please.
Adam god is not fold lore. Again Mormons lie. This was taught as doctrine by Joseph Smith to Brigham Young as a secret doctrine (like polygamy) and Brigham Young canonized it! It was in the D&C! Spencer Kimball abrogated it in 1976. It was doctrine. You know well before what that part was about but you contrived confusion. Again deception
Jesus was not begotten by the spirit that is again false. here is what your prophets say in that regard...
Brigham young
“Now Remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. … When the Virgin Mary conceived the Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost… What a learned idea' Jesus, our elder brother was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in heaven.
Joseph F. Smith
_"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit”
_
Mormons lie and lie. Can you guys ever give us the truth about anything???
Stop rolling your eyes. This was taught at the general conference in 1858
“How was it with Mary and Martha, and other women that followed him (Mormon Jesus)? In old times, and it is common in this day, the women, even as Sarah, called their husbands Lord; the word Lord is tantamount to husband in some languages, master, lord, husband, are about synonymous… When Mary of old came to the sepulchre on the first day of the week, instead of finding Jesus she saw two angels in white, ‘And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?’ She said unto them,’ Because they have taken away my Lord,’ or husband, ‘and I know not where they have laid him.’ And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.’ Is there not here manifested the affections of a wife. These words speak the kindred ties and sympathies that are common to that relation of husband and wife” (Journal of Discourses 2:81).
Also it was taught by President Woodruff, Apostle Pratt, Joseph F. Smith.
IT IS IN THE Journal of Discourses! You are liars.
@@hightemporalcoadjutor2396 I'm sorry that the difference between doctrine and interpretation of scripture gets so mixed up. I don't think it's necessary to go over everything point you brought up. It is sufficient to say that there is a reason why conference talks (and sources such as the Journal of Discources) are not canonized. They are interpretations of scriptures (in other words, opinions) Some are true. Some are not. If you read some of the comments in this comment section, this point has already been brought up. A reliable source of our doctrine can be found in the standard works (Holy Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price), Official Proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Those are doctrine.
To summarize my point and those that have posted before me, if you take everything that is said by a prophet or leader of the church as doctrine, then your perspective makes sense and you have a valid argument. However, all of the aforementioned leaders are mortal beings and prone to mistakes. Some said some pretty dumb and insensitive things. But those are opinions (interpretations of scripture, not doctrine).
As for the comments in this video: this is just a reaction video to the "banned Mormon cartoon," not a rebuttal. They have many other videos on this channel that dig into specifics, and I think they assume that most of their audience has seen a video or two before watching this one. But again, that is merely my opinion (or interpretation) of this video.
I will say that I am impressed by the amount of information you have gathered about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I merely suggest that you differentiate what is doctrine and what is merely opinion. Thank you for your thoughtful post! I hope this explanation makes sense.
@@michaelanderson6484 A+👍
@@hightemporalcoadjutor2396 You do understand the difference between speculation and doctrine, don't you?
@@michaelanderson6484 Lol let me summarize for you. All the bad things that have been taught in the LDS church are just the opinions of men. All the good things in the LDS church are direct revelations from God recorded in doctrine and scripture. See it's easy if you don't use critical thinking to understand LDS doctrine! Doctrine = Good things the Prophet said. Opinions=Bad things the Prophet said. This is the type of thinking that results from being in a cult.
Ummm wait a minute. D&C 135:3 says something else. It says, “Joseph Smith...has done more, SAVE JESUS ONLY, for the salvation of men in this world...”
Also, Mormons don’t just believe that Joseph Smith died as a martyr. He did, even if you disagree with what he died for. And it wasn’t for us. Only one Person ever died for all of us.
But seriously, thanks for making this video. Sometimes people are kinda dumb, and make movies like that. I appreciate this, because it proves not everyone is out to attack me and my church.
Also, really good to see Ian!
Feed da Troll no. It’s not accurate. And if it’s 50 years old, that’s remarkable! Because they’ve accurately predicted hairstyles from the early ‘90’s! It’s got a few points of half-truth, but it’s depicted in an untruthful manner.
Also, every general conference talk from back then is available on LDS.org, so...I’m calling bull crap on all your claims. But I’m glad this is how you’re spending your time. Trying to destroy people’s beliefs? I hope that this makes you happy!
smith went out shooting whilst in prison for legitimate crimes. not a martyr.
hayd soren destruction of property was the main one however he created his own currency and sold fake bonds.
hayd soren you fucking idiot this is taught in sunday school he destroyed a printing press
@hayd soren hayla is really mad she said this was taught on every Sunday . So Joseph kicked a printing press down. She even have to swear about🤬
Mormon Jesus.... like it's a totally separate person. Not that we are all talking about the same Jesus and having a difference of opinion on the details. How divisive of them.
@@warioman91 - I agree that Jesus was not a blue eyed blonde. Its improbable in the extreme. It's an artistic representation.
However, not a single person on this planet has the exact same identical beliefs. Regardless of your religion, you have your own thoughts and interpretations. I'm a Catholic and I don't refer to Jesus as Catholic Jesus. I've never heard him referred to as Baptist, or Lutheran Jesus. Why? Its because Jesus isnt a proprietary concept.
You guys are so hilarious! I mean your comments are cute ^_^ haha... that banned cartoon has served years of laughter in my stomach. I am a born-again christian and very interested in other religions. Thank you for clarifying some stuffs on that cartoon. :D
Go back 200 years and ask Brigham young if his teaching that Elohim became Adam isn’t scripture, saying he was wrong would qualify you for “blood atonement “
There is no archeological evidence of the battles Joseph Smith claims, DNA says that the Indians are not related to Israelites and his interpretation of the hieroglyphs is incorrect according to Egyptologist, how do you explain these things?
There is archeological evidence of battles between ancient natives, so I am not sure what your point is. DNA failed to prove a connection, which is not the same things as proving there isn't one. There are plenty examples of smaller groups DNA getting swallowed up by a larger group. Lastly, we do not have Smith's interpretation of any hieroglyphs. At most one can say that the eleven fragments we have do not match the text of the Book of Abraham. Since records indicate two scrolls, one over 60 feet long, and enough fragments to cover a kitchen table, enough evidence has not been recovered to conclusively state anything.
in humid central america nothing organic would last over 100 years in wooded forest DNA human lymphocyte antigens HLA B21 of top 12 areas in the world 8 were arab areas 3 were in central america that spoke the UTO-ASTECAN family of languages 1 tribe was # 4 on the list beating out several arab countries different Egyptologist have different opinions Joseph Smith was the first person in modern times to say that the hieroglyph of boat was about the number 1000 ask an REAL Egyptologist
I missed Ian! Bring him back again!
And that video is crazy hilarious. Just proves how twisted things can get. And that the bottom line is people will believe what they want to believe, and whom they want to believe, regardless of history and truth.
WTF history are you talking about?
Y'all believe Native Americans are Jews
If you guys were honest you would point out the sources of these elements of the film that you disagree with. Mormon teachings change over time. This film reflects a snapshot of Mormonism from a time before you were born but I have sat in LDS classes and heard most of this stuff taught.
They link to them in the description.
Was taught this as a LDS child… “be proud that you are lamanite you’re Mormon so you are better!”
Every Mormon I've ever met has always been super nice both these guys seem really cool I don't agree with all y'all's doctrine but I have always admired your passion for your faith. we don't have to agree on everything I thought y'all's video was very informative and I thought you guys did a great job and anyone who has a passion for Jesus Im all for it.
On my mission a woman investigating our church asked us to watch this with her. I didn’t know where to start with the debunking. Mostly it made us sad. Thanks for putting in the work to separate fact from garbage.
Hahahah a friend gave me this cartoon to watch months ago and I could not do anything else but laugh like crazy. I mean for real folks haha
I laughed too, especially since in the early 90's this cartoon was shown in Mormon churches here in the South.
And now when I show it to present day Mormon's they're surprised by the contents.
@@theiran I am surprised to hear that. Since it was an evangelical production, part of a larger explicitly anti-LDS movie called "The Godmakers".
The Creeds are where "historical" Christianity mingled Biblical Christianity with Greek philosophies. That was the abomination.
There's a reason the FLDS church exists: It's because they're following the original, unaltered doctrine and they believe that polygamy is the way to the celestial kingdom because that's what is in the D&C, said by Jospeh Smith. So yes, originally the BOM does say that god has multiple goddess wives. There's so much you guys aren't aware of and it's sad.
VenetianLotus22 “Nope” - Everyone ever
@@withkwaku cults members don't know they are in a cult. There's a reason why you lost the debate with the Christian dude. cult leaders deceive their followers while the followers don't even know what they're believing. mormons believe god made a mistake 1,000 of years ago so someone had to revive scriptures. The Christian God never fails, is all powerful and the truth never dies. The first Christians and disciples had Gods word, the truth and the word never dies. The mormon god (someone who was once a man) made a mistake with his plan for humanity and had to correct humans 1,000 years later through a pedophile who married a 14 year old, who claimed "Nope, Gods followers are wrong, I am a prophet and this is the right way". Your "god" failed his word and promise for humanity and had to start again 1,000 years later through some American man. The Christian GOD never fails, and the truth never dies the same way the truth was with his disciples and his first followers. Not some modern American cult that don't even agree with each other and does not even know what they believe in.
@@withkwaku Nobody denies these things about mormonism except for embarrassed mormons, many mormons dont even disagree
VenetianLotus were you born a dumbass?
Darkplatinum 236 on the pedophile comment. Pedophiles are people who are attracted to pre pubescent girls. 14 is not pre pubescent and 14 was actually not a uncommon age to get married back then it was more accepted by society. Not to mention there’s a difference in these marriages if you dig Deeper into church writings you would see that these were just sealings. Joseph didn’t live with them and there isn’t any evidence any of those sealings were ever consummated.
I find it disheartening when people who are obviously not members of a Church, and who have either never fully read a Church’s scriptures, or whom have at best a cursory (and very erroneous) understanding of that Church’s doctrines try and tell other people, (including members of that Church!) what the Church “actually teaches.” At best such people tend to be misguided as well as misinformed (intentionally or otherwise). At worse you get the sort of people who put together this video: intentionally misleading and misrepresenting information in order to try and discredit a particular religion. If you disagree with the doctrines or scriptural interpretations of a particular Church, then fine; have an actual dialogue with Church members about those differences. But don’t just spread misrepresentations and outright lies. That’s just not cool. (And is certainly NOT Christian, as the people who originally produced this video purport to be.)
These 2 are the perfect examples of Sheep in the LDS Faith. Acknowledge the nice parts and be either Ignorant or Completely Deny the ugly parts. 2nd Nephi Chapter 5 Verse 21. Blacks weren't allowed into the LDS Temple or allowed much else at all for that matter within the church until 1978. The church didn't disavow their previous racial theories until 2013. It is taught in some LDS Churches that you become a God and create your own Universes if you have lived your life in accordance with the scriptures and it's teachings. That exact same teaching is also DENIED in other LDS Churches, and the end game explained much differently. Long story short, Religion is Complex.
If I remember correctly wasn't the federal government going to tax the church for discrimination? I know there was going to be some financial repercussions and suddenly, blacks could have the priesthood. It's similar to how Utah was not going to get statehood because of polygamy and suddenly, monogamy was the rule! It's so obvious.
Wow 😯 that was weird. It’s more like a parody. Thanks for debunking the nonsense.
They didn’t debunk any thing
I will be baptised in the LDS church this Saturday.
Congratulations bro!
I’m sorry to hear that
IAN!!!!!!
I was gonna comment that! You totally beat me to it.😂 I'll comment anyway.😂
hey, that's my name too!
I love you guys and as a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints I believe that what you are saying is true. I thank you for the videos you make and your videos have helped me through hard times
Dude I love you
They believe that Jesus wants us to have choice and sin but Lucifer wanted us to just be gods and not suffer??? Weird
So, the long and short of it, God set forth a plan that the Earth would be made so that we would be able to receive bodies and do the works necessary for salvation and exaltation, so while discussing this plan, Lucifer told God to send Lucifer, and we wouldn't have any agency, he would just force us to do everything and the glory would be Lucifer, but Christ told God to send Christ, and those who would believe upon God would be saved and the glory would be our Heavenly Father's, and so God sent Jesus.
Lucifer was furious and tried to rebel against God, just like how in Isaiah he talks about Satan was cast down and lost his first estate, his eternal glory because he sought to rebel against God and 1/3 of the Heavenly host fell with him.
So, it isn't that Jesus wanted us to sin, it's that Jesus and God wanted us to be able to choose and to be able to come back to them in faith, but we each are able to make those choices because would God be just if He took away our free will?
It is possible that God has more than one wife. Before the eighties many Mormons did call Heavenly Father Eloheim and did believe it was his name. It is also true that some Mormons did tell people NOT to see the Godmakers. I am LDS. I understand why you see it the way that way in 2018. Before the eighties many Mormons did teach that Blacks were neutral. Also Mormons did teach that darker skin was a sign of being less valiant. Adam God was taught by some Mormons. I am LDS but come on guys some of this is true but it is not totally true.
Hahahah that cartoon was just toooo much 😂😂
@@feeddatroll2522
"Mormo sources" does not mean what you think it means.
There is a difference between opinions which are found in "Mormon sources" and doctrine, which are found in the scriptures.
===============
Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.
www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine
@@korvaamiko66 >> apostle Paul
1Cor.14[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
2 Peter 3 [16] As also in all his [Paul] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
James 2 [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
@@korvaamiko66 >> on par with them during conference talks
Conference talks are not canonized
@@korvaamiko66
These are the principles which guide me ====>>>
If the Conference Talk is grounded in scripture, then it is an expansion/ interpretation of those scriptures.
2 Peter 1 [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Otherwise it should be seriously considered as being inspired and not lightly discarded.
Then I suggest you check out the South Park episode "All About Mormons."
Thank you so much for clearing this cartoon up guys! Now I know none of that trash is true. I know God loves all of us and would never do all these crazy blasphemous things
Brother, I know it's hard to give us something you've had in your life for so long. But it's not true.
@@nathanbigler The LDS Church does not consider something Doctrine because someone who later became a General Authority said it when they were younger. Many other GA's explicitly disagree with many of those speculations. Taking a quote out of context does not doctrine make.
Only the Prophet is called to receive new revelation, and then only after being ordained prophet. Changes to policy and the understanding of Doctrine require all 15 called as prophets, seers, and revelators to unanimously agree.
'The book of Mormon is completely in line with the Bible!' - yeah OK, I'm tapping out. Lie to yourselves, if you must, but don't lie to me and other Christians. Oh and the whole 'banned' thing in the title is clearly just clickbait put there by the person who uploaded it 😂
I've researched the content of that video, asked other Mormons about it and it does match up with like, 95% of Mormon doctrine/church history and the parts that don't are just semantic issues.
This may sound crazy..but if you wanna find out about the church how bout asking a member of the church..or better yet the missionaries..yea try that!
Individual members often get things mixed up. I would recommend a trained historian. Dan Vogel is great at getting Mormon information straight. His videos are fantastic, accurate sources of information on Mormon origins and early Mormon history.
The best way to find out is to read this book that's called....The Silmarillion.
Any comments?
Sometimes people don't know who to ask, what to say, or where to find answers to their questions; and they'll take what they can get, even if they only hear lies. but I think the previous comments have some true Merits.
Alannah May... : *Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints*
Queen Bizzle, I applaud your candor, and thank you kindly.
This cartoon makes The Book of Mormon sound like Fifty Shades of Grey
I'm just a new subscriber and watch the past video of this vlog but seeing Ian again is i felt like i MISSED him and we already had connections. Funny! But i totally pump! Hope to see you again ian. I enjoyed watching you both.
This cartoon is the biggest anime fail ever!!
Oh my gosh thanks so much for making this video!
They're trying very hard.
As for the gold plates thing: there have actually been ancient records -- not necessarily Mormon -- discovered, that we're written in books of metal plates much like the book of Mormon was described as being.
not in fucking america at that time lmao
Yeah because with how big that book was he was able to pick it up and run with it
Based on the way many Christians are reacting to your reaction video, and becoming so outraged that you'd dare speak ill of him, you'd think they're more loyal to Ed Decker and The Godmakers than they are to Jesus and the Bible.
But that's none of my business. *sips tea*
Deception and lying is there anything else Mormon pass off as apologetics? Is that how you operate?
According to revelations of Mormon prophets your god was a polygamist. That was taught as doctrine . Notably Brigham Young, John Taylor, Joseph Fielding Smith taught that as doctrine. It is in the Journal of Discourses. Why are you lying?
While you are at it, why not tell is that the Joseph Smith thought people lived on the moon and Brigham thought that people lived on the sun ... Now that is real funny, not like the contrived laughter emoted by the two Mormons?
Celestial intercourse - I think they mean intercourse in heaven which causes spirit babies. That is what they seem to mean.
According to Kwaku, Mormon Jesus was an angel in the premortal existence! Is Kwaku making up poop? Mormon Jesus was a spirit child not an angel. How did Moroni become an angel??? He was not married and went to the celestial kingdom! Kwaku is one of the worst gaslighters on the 3 Mormons and most likely to make up nonsense. You can never rely on the 3 Mormons to just provide the truth about anything.
There was a council of gods who heard the plans of salvation. There is nothing about a vote as far I know, but many Mormons assume this. So, to say there was not vote is an error. That is an opinion. Many Mormons believe there was a vote but I do not believe there is anything specific about that particular aspect. However, just because it was in that video, and your co-cultist want to find something to disagree with, they chose it. If a Mormon has said that you would have been ok with it. This is deception.
Ok the one about black skin is not true (may be). But you guys gaslighted it immediately. You said that even Lucifer was the child of god. Nowhere did the video mention that Blacks were children of Satan. This is a lie! However, you did not even mention the curse of Cain and the curse of Cain which Mormons taught as doctrine which is not taught anymore but remains doctrine. It was this doctrine which prevented blacks from receiving the Mormon “priesthood”. Again the 3 Mormons were deceiving everyone here.
Yes, the most valiant in the battle were destined to be born to Mormon families. This was from the Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual chapter 6 in the 1970s!!! Please please stop making stupid faces please.
Adam god is not folklore as the 3 Mormons wish that we would believe. Again, Mormons lie. Joseph Smith taught this as doctrine to Brigham Young as a secret doctrine (like polygamy) and Brigham Young canonized it! It was in the D&C! Spencer Kimball abrogated it in 1976. It was doctrine. You know well before what that part was about but the 3 Mormons contrived confusion. Again, Mormons engaged in deception rather than choosing to tell the truth.
Jesus was not begotten by the spirit in Mormonism. Here is what your prophets say in that regard...
Brigham young
_“Now Remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. … When the Virgin Mary conceived the Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost… What a learned idea' Jesus, our elder brother was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in heaven._
Joseph F. Smith
_"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit”
Mormons lie and lie. Can you guys ever give us the truth about anything???
Mormon Jesus being married to several women was taught at one time. The following was taught at the general conference in 1858
_“How was it with Mary and Martha, and other women that followed him [Jesus]? In old times, and it is common in this day, the women, even as Sarah, called their husbands Lord; the word Lord is tantamount to husband in some languages, master, lord, husband, are about synonymous… When Mary of old came to the sepulchre on the first day of the week, instead of finding Jesus she saw two angels in white, ‘And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?’ She said unto them,’ Because they have taken away my Lord,’ or husband, ‘and I know not where they have laid him.’ And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.’ Is there not here manifested the affections of a wife. These words speak the kindred ties and sympathies that are common to that relation of husband and wife” (Journal of Discourses 2:81)._
Also it was taught by President Woodruff, Apostle Pratt, Joseph F. Smith.
IT IS IN THE Journal of Discourses!
+High Temporal Coadjutor The JOD, is not considered required reading.
Also, quote mining is a wonderful hobby, is it not?
+High Temporal Coadjutor Repeatedly calling someone a liar and deceiver, does not make it so.
@@bakachan3601 Quote mining is that what you call quoting your apostles? Is that the new accusation in the Mormon cultic world where when someone demonstrates to you what doctrine is you call it "quote mining". Now because you cannot lie and deceive, now it is quote mining. Journal of Discourses gives you the teachings of your apostles. That is what they taught. Do you know more than your apostles? It is unbelievable how cultic you are. You cannot disprove anything I have said. You know the Mormons lied in the video. They are liars because they lied. That makes them liars.
@@hightemporalcoadjutor2396 Well, many members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints wouldn't disagree with that these people said such and such... On the other hand, they would disagree with that it constitutes official doctrines.
Like pastors and members of other churches can have some crazy statements about Jesus coming from Mars and that Satan's angels are actually UFOs, the latter-day saints are not immune to that, even not the apostles and prophets since..... They're not Jesus but imperfect humans. That's why they have talked so much about discerning by the spirit and focusing on official doctrines, which is written scripture.
I guess that's why some people are so obsessed with an obscure statement. They don't realise that people like Moses, Peter and Paul are described as people who didn't do or say right all the time and that their "speak time" in the scriptures would probably fill lesser than one or two days. Pretty sure that other people raised their eyebrows from time to time during the rest of their lifetime since..... They're not perfect, they're not Jesus.
I guess my conclusion is this: prove to me that prophets and apostles are supposed to say and do right by every word and action in their lives and then I'll acknowledge us latter-day saints as fallen People... Though it would discredit quite a few people in the Bible as well. In reality, perfect apostles and prophets is the doctrines Islam, not christianity
Seems like the cartoon speaks the truth regarding LDS doctrine, history, or teachings, and it bothers them.
My cousin bought this for me when she heard I was getting baptized back in 1997 and I watched it with the missionaries 😂.
b h hhahahahahha yesssssss. Honestly, I think the movie is hilarious.
just for some clarification this cartoon was made by Jeremiah Films who brought such trash as The god Makers
Joseph Smith felt he could write a better version of the Bible smh!
No one told me I shouldn't drink cola.
So this skinny dude is a black mormon???Mormon???? Smh...
I’m gonna say that was the most cringeworthy reaction video. Not because of your comments, but because this supposedly “banned” video is too stupid for my broken head to bear. (Having MS, my head hurts a lot)
I thank you guys for confronting this slander with a heavy side of salt. I couldn’t watch it without you guys
That video's artstyle was very much "Yellow Submarine" as well. Not only the false doctrines but the artstyle seem to be crafted to get people to laugh at the Church.
@Kanpaku, the LDS church DOES teach everything that is in the cartoon. These two guys picked out little mistakes like the word “Elohim” being a title rather than a name, but the majority of these beliefs are in fact, what the LDS church believes. The word “banned” refers to the fact that the Mormon/LDS leaders HIDE these beliefs from public knowledge. Nobody banned this video from playing on the internet, but the beliefs are essentially banned from public knowledge, since these are secret beliefs that the LDS church won’t tell you, until you start moving up ranks in the church.
It’s church history. They’ve altered “the doctrine” since the cartoon came out. It’s old.
Thank you so much for reacting to this!!! This video hurt my testimony so much before I converted!
@Tyler Danley, no matter how much they try to discredit that cartoon, the LDS church DOES believe in and teach most of the doctrines & beliefs that are in the cartoon. They just HIDE those beliefs from non-Mormons, and they don’t even tell new Mormons about those hidden beliefs, until they rise higher in the ranks of this cult known as the Latter Day Saints.
I'm an older Mormon and although these youngsters we're not taught this I was definitely taught this in my younger days. I was a Mormon for 40 years. All of this was taught decades ago. As time goes on they have changed things. It is rumored that the nephites being termed "white and delightsome" in the book of Mormon was removed. I do not have a current book of Mormon but in the original which I had several of did indeed have the words white and delightsome referring to the nephites . It also says in the book of Mormon that the lamanites skin turned dark because of their wickedness. Nephi being the good brother was white and one of his brothers lamen being the bad brother as darker skinned. The plural marriage thing in the celestial kingdom will be practiced or you aren't welcome there if you don't practice it. That is in the doctrine and covenants. Look it up. The Cain doctrine was definitely taught when I was a young child..in the Cain doctrine it says that everyone born from Cain's line were the Spirits that were neutral in the spirit world before their birth and that's why they are cursed with black skin and was born from cain and in down the line also because Cain was cursed because he killed his brother able. I can't believe I used to believe this nonsense. I was brainwashed as a child. I woke up when I was 40 years old and it was the most freezing experience ever. I don't need a man to tell me I'm worthy on a piece of paper. Only Jesus can deem me worthy.
Haha "if you believe that we believe this stuff, then that may say more about you than it says about us." Perfect
Yes XD
More Mormon pronouns. Mormons DO and DID believe this stuff.
Mormons so sneaky & deceptive to potential converts.
Kwaku's face when the video said why there are black people. (SHOOK) This video is ridiculous 😂 Where do they get their "facts"
Angelica Hollingsworth the Book of Mormon
It's pretty accurate in terms of Mormon church history. Black people weren't even allowed to enter into the priesthood until the 1970s. The US government threatened to take away their tax exempt status and all of a sudden, bam...the Mormon prophet had a magical revelation that black people could, in fact, be treated just the same as anyone else. Wow. What a blessing indeed 👍😅
Hitting that hip pocket nerve...it will usually change most peoples' minds. If they had any integrity or any semblance of honor, they would've stuck with their beliefs and let the chips fall where they may buuut nope, they flipped them immediately.
How do you know if it's doctrine or not? Does it have to be in scripture? What if an apostle teaches it in conference?
Linda Smith, we accept scripture (The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine & Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Bible) as doctrine. We respect and listen to the words of prophets with reverence, but we also prayerfully take what prophets and apostles say (or have said), and we challenge them with revealed and true core doctrine, and go from there. Actual true core doctrine of the church is pretty exclusive to things that are eternal and that never change. The only way official core doctrine is established in the church is through a vigorous process. Each word of something that becomes core “doctrine” has to be first approved by “the brethren” of the church, meaning the prophet, his counselors, and the twelve apostles...15 different men...not an easy feat. Here’s a great article on the topic...
www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine
So aside from the standard works is there a list of approved doctrine somewhere? How do members know what is doctrine vs what is just policy or the opinion of one apostle, or even a prophet, that should not carry the same weight as doctrine?
Wildflowers and Freckes, I did a closer reading of the article you shared and I see it now. Scriptures, Articles of Faith, official declarations and proclamations. So there's Declaration 1, Declaration 2, Monson's Easter Declaration, the 1980 Sesquicentennial Declaration, the 2000 Relief Society Declaration and the 1990 Proclamation on the Family. Everything else is opinion. Am I missing anything?
@Linda Smith, so unless something new that has come out is approved by all 15 of the brethren, it is not considered core doctrine. That's how you can know. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't respect and honor what the leaders of our church are saying, that's just saying that anything new that is presented isn't necessarily core doctrine unless it fits this criteria. And like I said before, you can prayerfully challenge what any leader of the church says with already revealed core doctrine to make sure the two align. Now, I do need to stress here that I believe that prophets are guided and directed by God. Policy changes have and will continue to happen often throughout the church's history based on a lot of things including our current circumstances, and that's something different entirely. But we can rest assured that any eternal doctrine is here to stay, and will never change. As far as a list goes...I found this www.lds.org/manual/basic-doctrines/basic-doctrines?lang=eng
I hope it helps.
Feed da Troll, sure, here are some references...
“With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications.” www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine
“The prophet and President of the Church can receive revelation individually that becomes doctrine when it is sustained by the united voice of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles” www.lds.org/ensign/2013/09/how-is-doctrine-established?lang=eng
Though the priesthood being withheld from the blacks was never core doctrine of the church, nor is anything that is abrogated, (since core doctrine is only eternal doctrine that will never change which is the topic of this comment thread), here’s this for your information anyway...
“In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.” www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2?lang=eng
And as far as President Nelson stating that there’s more to come...I direct you to The 9th Article of Faith...
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
And if you still think that’s complete “bullocks” based on what other prophets and apostles have said in the past about the church being fully restored, I refer you again to the references above.
I was a Mormon and yes, Mormons believe the name of the Father is Elohim and that he has many wife's. Be honest.....
Lol they be like
“Bro, you believe this right?”
“Uhm… Nope, it’s banned for a reason”
Haha! There is nothing deceptive in the cartoon. It is true that the cartoon is actually based on the book of mormon. It is comical to see these crazy mormons try to defend their cult!
So you prefer to believe a production that deceptively claims this was a banned cartoon over actual members of the church pointing out the misinformation in the video. Interesting. Perhaps you should consider your confirmation bias.
@@alanbylund2659 I never said I prefer to believe the cartoon over anything. I only pointed out that the information in the cartoon is accurate while making fun of the cult for defening theirselves despite the accuracies. Perhaps you need to read more carefully. I had already learned much of what the video says from mormon documents before ever coming acoss it. You must be a mormon troll.
@@Los-pf3bi I agree that there are some things the cartoon says that are accurate, but as the video shows, they are presented in a way that portrays an inaccurate picture. The fact is that the purpose of this video is deception. It accomplishes this attempt to misinform by presenting some facts in a way that gives viewers an inaccurate perception.
Just what LDS inaccuracies are you referring to. I guarantee I can show that what you perceive to be inaccurate is because of your misunderstanding. I'm not a troll. I am just attempting to educate misinformed trolls like yourself. You can prove you are not just a troll by having an actual conversation to gain a better understanding. In the process I hope to come away with a better understanding of your perspective as well. Are you willing to take the risk?
@@alanbylund2659 Okay stupid mormon troll, let's start with one of the first claims of the cartoon that says that your god lives near that mysterious star. See your book of abraham on this. It confirms that the pervert joseph smith wrote that your god's throne is near the star Kolob. This is supposed to be your celestial kingdom. But maybe you can educate me on this, as I understand, it is Earth's celestial kingdom and there are countless other celestial kingdoms because you mormons believe you will all be gods. This is what your missionaries mean when they advertise that you can be with family in the afterlife, though they are keen to leave out the weird details. None of this is according to real Christianity. What is inaccurate about this then?
By the way, you didn't read my last post correctly either, I didn't mention any inaccuracies. If you read carefully, I said the cartoon IS accurate.
@@Los-pf3bi You seemed to have misunderstood the teachings in the Book of Abraham, and the cartoon as well. First the cartoon talks about a "starbase Kolob" depicted as the place where Heavenly Father dwells, which has you pointed out, is not what the BofA teaches. Secondly, Kolob is not the Celestial Kingdom in LDS Theology. The planet Earth will be, at some future point, following the Millenium, the Resurrection, and Final Judgment. The three Kingdoms of Glory are post resurrection. The Bible teaches that those who follow Jesus will be co-heirs with Christ in the eternities. LDS do not, and have never taught, that we will someday replace God the Father, which you seem to think.
Super happy to see Ian again!! :D
In all fairness J.S. did claim to be a better leader than Christ in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p.408-409, "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.
"
That's not a claim to be a better leader than christ. It's simply an observation and a gratitude for the early saints remaining faithful amongst persecution.
@@tinybsas5759 He may be showing gratitude as well be he his also clearly stating that "no man ever did such a work" as him. Including Christ.
A quote by John Taylor puts this in perspective: "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.
"save Jesus only" means with the exception of Christ. Restoring the Lord's church, his priesthood, and the saving ordinances certainly makes that quote true and correct.
KevlarX2 again I reiterate Joseph’s claim to have done more than any other man including Jesus. He “boasts” this claim. John Taylor doesn’t put any perspective on What Joseph. In fact if Taylor is referring to this claim of Smith then Taylor is distorting the words of J.S.
@@HellFireCobra www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Narcissism/Boasting#Question:_Is_the_quote_of_Joseph_Smith.27s_.22boasting.22_of_keeping_the_Church_intact_accurate.3F
I’m genuinely blown away your rebutting the most inconsequential information, yes they’ve twisted a lot but the core of what they’re saying your not refuting
It’s like saying I didn’t punch him, I hit him
You guys are either dishonest or uninformed about what your prophets have revealed, I don't have to listen to your current profit cause he's just a guy saying stuff, like the history of mormonism.
Something I have noticed with younger LDS, is this ability to discredit their own prophets whenever they say something that is less than savory regarding their faith.
Someone could've said the same thing 100 years ago. Their ever-changing what previous "prophets" decreed.
In less than 200 years, there have been over 100,000 changes to the Book of Mormon.
@@catholicdad
Which translates in 100% Bs.
They do that to make it more palatable and “IN”.
Of course, proselytizing is like advertising so you gotta be "woke" and alter the unsavory bits to make it more palatable for this generation...
We don't discredit the prophets who said wrong things, we just acknowledge they were wrong. We believe in continuing revelation. It is up to each individual to receive revelation from God about the truth of a matter. It is the prophet's responsibility to seek God's will constantly so he cannot speak incorrect things, but he has to want to receive an answer just like any other person.
Brigham Young did not seek revelation to change the policy he pronounced on the Church in those early years. To avoid something like that happening in the present, all 15 men in the two presiding counsels of the Church must agree on a policy or revelation. President Nelson can declare the mind of the Lord to the Church and the world, along with people he authorizes to speak for him. The buck stops with the prophet, who will answer to God for how he handles His Church and how he sought after revelation to guide His Church.
Mormon gospel teaches different God, different Jesus, and different gospel. The Mormon god was once a man, the Biblical God has ALWAYS been God. The Mormon Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer and the work He did on the cross isn't enough to save us from our sins, the Biblical Jesus finished the work on the cross, which is why He said.... "It Is Finished.". The Mormon gospel teaches that you have to be a member of the Mormon church, pay all the required tithes, visit the temple, wear the garments, make the oaths, work yourself to death, THEN Jesus will do the REST..... BLASPHEMY!!!!
thats a strawman
Is it true that Mormon doctrine teaches a "genealogy of gods," in which God the Father had/has a god, and this god had a god, and so forth?
Mormon doctrine on this point is not clear, and mostly speculative
Not all Latter-day Saints accept the ideas which suggest a regression of divine beings. Mormon doctrine on this point is not clear, and mostly speculative. It does not play much of a role, one way or the other, in LDS worship or thought.
Objections based on the infinite regression problem usually rely on a misunderstanding of the properties of infinities, and require that the critic improperly apply finite properties to infinities. These problems are not unique to LDS theism, but must be confronted in some form by all believers in the existence of God.
This question can only be partially answered, in part because so very little is known about this issue
This question can only be partially answered, in part because so very little is known about this issue in LDS scripture and doctrine.
The basis of the question rests in part in the idea which Lorenzo Snow encapsulated in his famous "couplet":
[A] As man now is, God once was, and
[B] as God now is, man may become.[1]
The implications of part [B] are clear, and relatively well laid out in LDS doctrine. This is the doctrine of human deification, or theosis. It formed a key part of early Christian belief, and is discussed elsewhere in the FAIRwiki.
However, the meaning and implication of [A] are not very clear. As President Gordon B. Hinckley indicated in a TIME magazine interview, although we accept the first part of President Snow's couplet, we do not completely understand it nor do we emphasize or teach it regularly.
Stance #1: God the Father had a divine Father
This position is seemingly the dominant one in LDS thought. This line of thinking concludes that because God the Father had a mortal experience, He too was at one point the spirit child of another deity. This deity allowed the Father to progress through mortal life and obedience to moral law, and the Father thereby was eventually divinized. Implicit in this idea is the suggestion that the "Heavenly Grandfather" would likewise have needed to undergo a mortal experience under the patronage of yet another divine Father, and so on.
These ideas are partly based on later 19th century doctrinal extension by Joseph Smith's successors following his death. Two addresses given by Joseph Smith shortly before his death, the King Follett discourse (7 April 1844) and the "Sermon in the Grove" (16 June 1844), were the key source material for these later ideas. Joseph was killed soon after presenting these ideas publicly, and so did not have the opportunity to fully expand, clarify, or explain them. There is some contemporary evidence from the Nauvoo Period that Joseph Smith actually taught this. For example, the anti-Mormon Nauvoo Expositor mentioned this concept. "Among the many items of false doctrine that are taught the Church, is the doctrine of many Gods, one of the most direful in its effects that has characterized the world for many centuries....It is contended that there are innumerable gods as much above the God that presides over this universe, as he is above us..."
Stance #2: God the Father did not have a divine Father
Joseph's remarks were not published until after his death, and no word-for-word transcription of his remarks exists. The version of these addresses with which most members of the Church are familiar, and upon which proponents of stance #1 have often mostly relied, were those published in the Times and Seasons, History of the Church, and Joseph Fielding Smith's compilation of Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Some Church members have argued, as a result, that the conclusions drawn from the commonly-available versions of Joseph's talks are mistaken, and that Joseph actually meant to teach primarily that God the Father underwent a mortal experience.
Therefore, in this view, Jesus' mortal experience is a better model for the Father's mortality, instead of the experiences of other, fallible mortals. These are compared and contrasted in the table below:
Jesus' Mortal Experience All Others' Mortal Experience
Jesus was divine prior to being born (John 1:1-3.)
We were spirit children of God the Father, but were not divine beings.
Jesus' body was conceived by the action of the Holy Ghost on a mortal woman. (Luke 1:35.) God was the Father of His physical body. This allowed Jesus to choose when and whether to die.(John 10:18.)
We had physical bodies conceived by two mortals; death was inevitable, and not under our own control.
Jesus lived a sinless life through proper choices and the moral excellence inherent in his divine status.(Hebrews 4:15.)
Not being divine or perfect, all other mortals choose to sin.(Romans 3:23.)
Christ atoned for the sins of all humanity. (1 Timothy 4:10, 1 Nephi 10:6.)
Humanity was unable to atone for their own sins, and would have been separated from God's presence forever without Christ's intercession (2 Nephi 2:5.)
Following His death, Christ was able to resurrect Himself.(John 10:18.)
We could not be resurrected without the power of Christ's atonement.(1 Corinthians 15:22.)
Following His resurrection, Christ resumed His full divine status by right.(John 17:5.)
Humans achieve theosis or divine status only through the grace of Christ.(Revelation 3:21.)
Proponents of the second view argue that God was once as man is now, but in the sense that Christ was once as man is now. That is, they read Joseph Smith as asserting that the Father took on a mortal body and suffered the privations and trials of a mortal life, just as Christ did. However, as with Jesus, this does not imply that the Father was not divine prior to receiving a mortal body, nor that the Father required someone else to atone for or redeem Him:
It seems fairly clear to me that Joseph Smith had [the Father being born as a mortal] in mind and not [the Father being spiritually begotten by another Father above him]. First, immediately after discussing the fact that generation of a son necessarily requires a father, he states: "I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He [Jesus] laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before." Thus, Joseph returns to the same explanatory principle that he had in the King Follett discourse. The Son as a mortal does "precisely" what the Father did before him.[2]
Many proponents of this view argue that the Father may well have played a role in providing salvation to other mortals, in the same way that Jesus did:
God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible...What did Jesus say?...The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power-to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious-in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again.[3]
Thus, since Jesus laid down His life as part of an atoning act, some have seen the Father in a similar role. Such ideas are perhaps plausible and consistent with the Prophet's teachings, but necessarily remain speculative.
Stance #2 has the advantage of accounting for another common theme in Joseph Smith's teaching (as well as LDS scripture) which emphasizes that there is a Most High God over all other beings called "gods," and this is identified as the Father. (See, for example, D&C 121:32. Abraham 3:19). This accords well with Joseph's remarks in the Sermon in the Grove about the Sons of God giving glory to the Most High God:
I believe in these Gods that God [i.e., the Father] reveals as Gods-to be Sons of God & all can cry Abba Father-Sons of God who exalt themselves to be Gods even from before the foundation of the world & are all the only Gods I have a reverence for- John said he was a King. Jesus Christ who hath by his own blood made us Kings & Priest to God. Oh thou God who are Kings of Kings & Lord of Lords...[4]
Advocates of Stance #1, in reply, point out that references to a Most High God might instead apply only from our perspective, and not to the greater "multiverse" envisioned by Stance #1.
in john 8:17-18, jesus compared himself and his father as "two men". both men bore witness of his divinity. im sure we will agree to christ's human aspects while in the flesh. he was a human being like you and me, only he had God ship within him. we read in john 5:19
"The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (john 5:19)
the answer is so obvious. what was jesus going to do?
John 10:17-18 tells us
"17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." ( john 10:17-18)
this is why the prophets taught these truths. christ said he could do nothing of himself but what he had seen his father do ( john 5:26). he became a man ( john 1:1,14), and he was to take his own body and lay it down and take it up again ( john 10:17-18).
the work he did for the cross was enough to save us from sin and to make it possible to attain eternal life. The purpose of "salvation by grace" (i.e. from Adam's First Death, Rom. 5:15) was in fact to make it possible for men to perform the "good works" which God intended (Eph. 2:10; Rom. 8:8-10), and for which they will be variously judged and rewarded (Mt. 13:8, 23; 1 Cor. 3:11-15; 15:41). Those who fail to live worthy lives may actually suffer a Second Death (Heb. 10:39; Rev. 2:11; 20:6, 14).
a lot of what is said in this video is from writings from early church leaders. it may not be something that current members believe, but they are teachings preached by 19th and 20th century prophets. what makes their claims less true or relevant than the living prophet today?
Moral of this: Truth and Mormonism do not mix.
Thank you so much for thiiis! That vid did shaken my faith when I watched it 🙁
So, when will YOU visit Kolob?
I’ve been getting to know a couple Elders I ran into while I was working at a private Christian university. I’m a reformed Christian who believes we’re saved by Grace and all our works laid before an almighty God are as filthy rags. I love LOVE these two: Elder Wright and Elder Church. Enjoyed the video guys 👊🏽
I agree that our works amount to little compared to what God and Jesus do, but they are necessary signs of our faith in Christ. We show the world that we are disciples of Jesus by the works we do: healing the sick, raising the dead, caring for the poor and needy, raising a family, etc.
That was great. I appreciate knowing what you believe. Thank you!
This was fun. That "BANNED" video has always made me laugh. I am sure if you guys wanted to you could have paused at every half phrase and triple the length of the video. That just how bad this "BANNED" video is.
You could still watch it...It's all over YT
They literally don’t say anything is untrue they just say it’s exaggerated but the concept is the same it is a pagan
@@covfefe1787 THANK YOU!!!! Yeah it may be exaggerated but the truth lies underneath. It’s there. To deny or laugh at things that they actually believe in doctrinally is really funny to me. If it is your true doctrine don’t act like it’s not what you believe in because it is! You believe that Jesus Is the brother of Satan. You believe that You can become gods one day. Etc. PLEEEEEEASE! People do your research! I don’t intend to bash any religion but the facts are there! Open your eyes! Follow the true Jesus of the Bible, not the Jesus of Mormonism. Yeah I said it. The Jesus of Mormonism. It’s an entirely different Jesus! (I’m talking to the saints unscripted guys here) Again I don’t intend to be rude but I get so upset when I see that the originally Jesus isn’t being followed and I have to speak truth.
@@healthhollow7218 np
The video is probably 90% true!!
I think I'll need a second try with watching this video. the cartoon is so... ewwww. wrong! wrong! wrong! Love that you are discussing the wrong part to straighten it.
@@feeddatroll2522 Oh, keep being you. It's precious.
I like how you guys object to the claim that black skinned people are the angels that remained neutral in the great war in heaven.....but don't address the real outright racist beliefs and actions that mormons did believe and act upon until 1989....please, boys, explain to me then why weren't black people allowed in temples or full membership or to hold the priesthood? The truth of what mormons did believe and do isn't better.
Kwaku: “Mormonism is completely in line with the Bible.”
Video: “It is believed that all Christian creeds are an abomination.”
Kaku: “True. We do believe that.”
…. This is your brain when you’re in a cult.
The creeds are post-Biblical, not Biblical.
I could not begin to outline all the errors and made-up stuff in this video. The "Mormon Jesus" is one of the expressions used which makes me laugh. Thanks for reviewing this guys!
I remember my friends showing that video to me in high school and being deeply uncomfortable, not because it is laughably wrong, but because it took elements of truth and twisted them and took them out of context which is, to me, more pernicious.
Thats how it feels when I here them do that to the Bible. They twist the words and take things out of context to make it fit their interpretation.
You guys held it together so well! Haha. I would love to have seen y'all's commentary without holding back. It was sooo cringe worthy. That horror movie music and the narrator sounding like he was describing a tragic murder mystery. It's very sad that so many people watch this and believe it though. Even though, I kind of hope someone tries to tell me all the stuff in this cartoon when they find out I joined the Church. Talk about being gullible...
If this was actually made by the church I'm sure they wouldint use words like "claimed" "supposedly" when stating this information ahaha
Hasn't the book of Mormon changed over the past couple hundreds of years? So what is said here was before you guy's were born
Yup!
Well The Book of Mormon was only fabricated less than 200 years ago lmao
Parley Pratt taught that Jesus had three wives. Brigham Young obviously taught Adam is God. The response to this should be that there are some non-official, not universally accepted speculations that exist within the church. The question should be put: how does that invalidate the church or it’s official doctrine?
There is plenty of speculation, both within and without the LDS Church, about the marital status of Jesus. Which is irrelevant. The cartoon, like many "Top Ten Beliefs Mormons won't tell you" type youtube videos, presents personal unofficial speculation as if it was Authoritative Canonized Doctrine. It is dishonest to present the opinions of a minority of a group as the official teachings of the whole group.
To answer your ending question, it doesn't. In matters where there has been no revealed doctrine, members, including General Authorities, are allowed their personal views/speculations/opinions. There are many topics for which there is no official answer.
Sometimes earlier speculation has been officially disavowed and authoritatively rejected. As Bruce R McConkie taught, we learn line upon line. When new light and intelligence is revealed, it casts away the shadows of previous believed traditions that we now know to be false.
Taking quotes from the Book of Mormon and the Prophets and saying “we don’t believe that’ is not lessening the credibility of the video
hayd soren Doesn’t matter. They still don’t answer the questions.
I love how they have the token black kid, to make them seem like a non racist cult.
😂😂
Man some of these anti-Mormons are kinda kookoo and seriously need to research out church before they go makin all of this stuff.
Likewise
I'm confused. You said that the Book of Mormon is completely in line with The Bible. That seems like a factual statement. Then you said that saying it's not is "in your opinion" not true.
Mormons constantly say mutually-exclusive things in proximity & keep smiling that brainwashed smile. Dum-dum-dum-dum-dum
Well done. I've seen this cartoon and the movie it came from. It's cool to see this. As I said Well Done! Hope it wasn't to uncomfortable for you.
Lucifer did not want anyone to become gods, like our Heavenly Father, he wanted to take away our agency, which would allow us to progress towards becoming like our Heavenly Father. Jesus Christ supported our Heavenly Father’s plan of agency which would allow us to progress. Without agency there is no progression. Lucifer wanted to destroy that agency and ascend unto our Heavenly Father’s glory, making himself the end of all exaltation in our Father’s kingdom.
Good to see you again Ian.
I came from my notifications so I didn't see the thumbnail and I genuinely shouted when Ian popped up!
guys try reading some of the Lds prophets teaching of when this cartoon was made
things have changed over then years, I feel your using the now watered down teachings to discredit the older teachings shown in the video
So trust Ed Decker who was ex-communicated for adultery. I will pass
If they don't believe plural marriage in heaven then what about all the plural marriages that have happened in church history? Doesn't make sense
I love how you guys claim these are just opinions a person or two may have had within the lds church. The claims in the cartoon are all based off teachings and sermons of Mormon prophets and apostles. That being said, you guys are right. It is not official church doctrine, but just listen to what Brigham Young said “I have never preached a sermon and sent it to the children of men that they may not call it scripture” (Journal of discourses). The lds church doctrine is always subject to change also. Blood atonement used to be a staple. Polygamy used to be required to enter the celestial kingdom. Blacks couldn’t hold the priesthood etc. Brigham also said the second blacks hold the priesthood is the second the church goes into apostasy. The church changed these aspects after the federal government cracked down on the lds church by threatening to destroy their church. Oh and let’s not forget Brigham also taught there was life on the moon and sun and that Joseph Fielding Smith said man would never get to the moon. I could go on and on. As Mormons, you guys have a lot of things to juggle to defend your faith. I pray you guys reach the point where u stop trying to jump all these hurdles to make things work. I pray God opens your eyes so you can build a genuine relationship with your savior Jesus Christ. The true Jesus Christ. The biblical Jesus. God bless you two. God knows your heart and will reveal truth so long as you honestly look for it!
Brigham Young also taught there are colonies on the other side of the SUN. He also had dozens of wives and HE WAS A FREEMASON. Give it up...it is a lie from the pit of HELL
Those things may be true, but no one prophet or apostle of this dispensation ( excluding the first) can establish official church doctrine without the approval of the first presidency and the quorum of the 12. Joseph Smith himself taught this so the saints would know. Anyone opposing the voice of the first presidency and the 12, who make decisions unanimously, are in error.
Also, just because a prophet says something that may be incorrect doesn’t prove them to be a false prophet. The idea of colonies on the moon and other cosmic bodies was accepted widely even in the scientific community in those times.
Most controversies of the church appear when we judge past times with modern standards. These are the same types of people who say George Washington was evil because he was a slave owner. Are you kidding me?
@@Thomas-vb4bu Lol let me summarize for you. All the bad things that have been taught in the LDS church are just the opinions of men. All the good things in the LDS church are direct revelations from God recorded in doctrine and scripture. See it's easy if you don't use critical thinking to understand LDS doctrine! Doctrine = Good things the Prophet said. Opinions=Bad things the Prophet said. This is the type of thinking that results from being in a cult.
@@HelloThere-xx1ct You are not normal if you dont accept that prophets do make mistakes. They are humans like you. The church official doctrines are church cannonized/official doctrines period.
@@johnvillaflor2723 How do we know what the mistakes are? How do prophets make mistakes if they can communicate with God? Do they communicate through Morse Code and the prophet sometimes gets the message wrong? Why is your God so bad at communicating a clear message? Why do his plans always seem to fail or have huge issues? God's inability to clearly communicate his will is near proof enough that your "prophets" have no real connection to it. For example, blacks in the priesthood. Joseph Smith ordained black men with the priesthood. Bringham Young reversed this and subsequent church leaders enforced this policy until 1978. Then they figured out they had it right the first time and blacks were back in. Does God just change his mind? How can we tell which one of these decisions was God's will versus man's?
At the 9:00 mark you are absolutely LYING to your audience. The black origin was taught this way for well over 100 years
Curious that such was never mentioned in any authorized curriculum manual then. Or mentioned in General Conference. I think you conflating a folk tradition as being an official doctrine.
I don’t mean that to sound rude. Have a good day and to each their own.
You're not wrong. I was raised mormon and dark sin was equated to the 'mark of Cain'
The amount of times Kwaku says, "we have some pretty cool doctrines..."
To be fair about the dark skin part... It was probably in the time this cartoon had been made that most members of the church actually believed in the false principles taught in Mormon Doctrine written by Bruce R. McConkie who would later become an apostle. Reason enough for most members to actually to believe in this desception which stand directly against the teachings of the Book of Mormon which states in 2nd Nephi that "All men are alike unto God, ..., black and white, male and female." The more reason for us to actually lean more on the canonic scriptures when we decide what we want to believe in.
You may be right, even though McConkie in 1978, which was when he was an Apostle, publicly stated that he had been wrong and to disregard everything he had ever written on the topic. He released a new edition of Mormon Doctrine, a book written almost 15 years before he was called as an Apostle and which multiple other Apostles had publicly disagreed, which removed the section.
One would think with all the criticisms against "Mormon Doctrine" from people like Hugh B Brown, Mark E Peterson, Henry Eyring, Spencer W. Kimball, and others at the time it was published would have been enough to discredit it.
okay so this is what i’m so confused by. how FLDS and LDS can follow the san person, joseph smith, and he obviously taught polygamy and that jesus even had two wives but LDS have gotten rid of that... but still follow a religion taught by the person who taught that?
@@nathanbigler But LDS definitely still follow Joseph Smith? I lived in Logan UT the past two years and that's still who everyone talked about, as well as Bringham Young. But still, the more racist one.. yikes!
@@faithhunt6114 Well since Joseph was very non-racist, especially for the time and place in which he lived, being more racist isn't hard. Joseph Smith is the Prophet of the Restoration. I am unaware of him having taught that Jesus had Plural wives, but Parley P Pratt certainly suspected that. Many Apostles have had differing views on the marital status of Jesus, with no official declaration on the subject ever being made.
The FLDS reject the Revelation ending the practice of Plural Marriage.
I believe there are true Christians in many churches, even churches that teach false doctrine. A church can have a creed that is an abomination, like infant baptism, but still have true Christians. I don't believe all Christians that don't belong to my church are bad. I've met many Catholics, Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, and others who are good Christians, though I don't believe the same things they do. I also believe many Muslims, Buddhists, and other non-Christians are good people and will accept Christ eventually.
You guys aren't telling the truth! Mormon doctrine does say that polygamy happens in the afterlife, and that Heavenly Father has multiple wives to create spirit children. Please be more honest!
The look on your faces at 5.27 is priceless. Thanks for the laugh. I needed it...
What's scary is you know the faults in the teaching which is why you change or reword what the cartoon is saying but you're not exactly disputing what's stated in that cartoon. You're sugar-coating it. I allowed a Mormon missionary talk to me and my husband (now ex husband) and in the beginning, he did the same thing. Then when he thought he had us, the gloves came off and that's when he said that our God was once a human who died and was given his own planet to rule and that they believed "we" (meaning wp) would become s god of their own planet upon death and yes, you DO (or DID) believe that bp were actually wht by because we were sinful and fought against God along the side of Satan, we were made brown. Stop that mess.