It's awesome to get a review of this keyboard from a medical professional. I really like mine, it's definitely overpriced but in the end totally worth it if you're job is to sit and write code all day.
Thanks! For some, writing emails all day may be just as bad as coding. I agree it is pricey but if it can improve your longevity it's totally worth it. Sitting for work all day isn't quite as easy on the body as some may think!
@@integritychiropractic Excellent points! This is why I bought an electric sit/stand desk and a gaming chair. When that didn't quite do the trick for my neck, shoulder, and wrist pain I went out and bought this keyboard and it's been smooth sailing since.
dunno if you guys gives a shit but if you guys are bored like me atm then you can watch all of the latest series on InstaFlixxer. Been binge watching with my girlfriend during the lockdown =)
Hopefully you figured out that shoulder pain can be solved by sitting with your arms at your side without your shoulders rounded forward, and having arm rests at the correct height... good luck
Just pulled the trigger on the last one on Amazon thanks in part to the depth of your review. But I’m probably not going to like some of the adjustments being a Mac user. I’m a dual thumb space bar user and that windows key on the right thumb cluster will now be the new command key on Mac and I use that key a lot. The backspace on the left thumb cluster will be quite the adjustment. My keyboard shortcuts are going to be quite the whirlwind
You're welcome! The good thing is that you'll be able to remap the keys to your liking and I did consider changing the backspace myself to be a secondary space bar as well during my testing. There's also an ability to set shortcuts/macros but I didn't explore that function extensively so please update us on how that goes if you do. At one point during typing I realized how many typos I actually make with the standard keyboard and have just become super adept at hitting backspace very fast all the time as a normal behavior to compensate for poor accuracy. It will be frustrating for the first week, but the keyboard really forces you to slow down and learn home key better. Learning to use the left arrow and DEL started to make a little more sense too, but obviously it's best if we can just have a very small error rate :). I can say I'm more accurate on the standard keyboard now after having gone through the Advantage2. -Dr. Frank
Integrity Chiropractic I’ll report back. I’m a touch typist and have always emphasized correct finger to correct keys but you noted the keys were ortholinear which I don’t believe has been mentioned much in other reviews, and hope that smooths over the adjustment period. I’m glad that you’re a major fan of yours. The key and finger correction has been mentioned by others, so I’m excited to learn if I have any bad habits despite my strict adherence to defaults. But it is interesting to hear about your experience with the backspace compensation. I make errors, too, but employ an option/alt + backspace or ctrl + w to delete entire words depending on the program to avoid hammering or holding backspace for repeated deletes. Has your typing speed gone back up to 80/90wpm? I’m curious how much of a shock to my typing speed will be and I anticipate it’ll take a month to get back near my current average.
@@wulymammoth Typing.com and typingtest.com were my best friends for training. I've been hammering the backspace for so many years I didn't even know how ridiculous it was until I couldn't do it anymore. Dictation is also harder than typing from a stream of consciousness for me- I imagine it must be similar for most individuals. I haven't used the keyboard since the review but I have absolutely no doubt if I was still using it I would be at 80wpm for purely text typing as I made it from 30WPM to 70WPM in 2 weeks with 10-20 minute training each day so I think it's doable. As I mentioned in the video, I don't find myself typing for more than a net 3 hours a day so the impact is minimal to me to use the standard keyboard. The effects have been lasting though as some of the bad habits I've worked out on the Advantage remain after reverting back to the standard keyboard again. But I'm curious and may just pull it back out to do a test to see if I can still use it well. I mainly bit the bullet to help desk workers out as I know it's tough on the body so anything to help as my patients know I'm a big believer of self care.
Integrity Chiropractic ah! I didn’t even look at it from a dictation perspective. That’s good to know. Yeah, it seems like you’re keeping the keyboard use to a minimum. I’m using my keyboard at least 6+ hours a day. This will be my third keyboard in four years. I hope to stop this keyboard buying habit. I upgraded to a vertical ergo mouse from a cheap vertical mouse a month ago and didn’t realize how much of a difference it made. I’m not much of a mouse user, but the comfort was so distinct. I’m hoping the same for the Advantage 🤞
@@integritychiropractic Tomorrow will be my 7th day with it. I got started on it last Tuesday evening. I was typing at 35wpm on that first night, clocked in at 42 the next day, and didn't check again until Saturday where I managed to get up to 98wpm (fastest), but my average was probably around 75wpm. The biggest adjustment has been relearning the keyboard shortcuts that I was so used to. I am a touch typist, but there were definitely a couple of poor habits that I had adopted and I think this keyboard helped me fix in a hurry. Typing code is still very much a weird experience as keys like the + and = are on the opposite side along with square brackets being in the bottom-right, so that'll take some more time to adjust. But aside from that, the keyboard is a bit of a dream to type on -- it's so comfortable for my hands with the concave key wells. I'm so happy and likely will be for many years to come with this keyboard. I also imagine that I'll be near my normal typing speed for most things by the end of week two and certainly back to my pre-Kinesis speeds in less than a month given the amount of time that I spend on a keyboard each day :D
"i used it for 2 weeks for 20 to 30 minutes " it would likely be more effective to use it for full recreational days. use it to type things which aren't time sensative and which lead to immediate reinforcement and a feeling of relevance. i'm going to be using halmak on a ergo linear in that way.
@@integritychiropractic the way i phrased that was rude, i apologize. i'm impressed you managed to recover than much speed in just over 4 hours of total time. it being spread over 2 weeks makes it all the more notable. i wouldn't have made anywhere near that much progress. why are you shooting for a higher typing speed? and what typing speed are you aiming for?
I didn't think you were being rude- so no worries. My comment was just in regards to the usual mid-life reality of most of us. I type fairly fast, so naturally most people would want to recover their usual speed. I don't type near enough volume that'd I'd need to type ridiculously fast though.
You're welcome! I had low back pain in my youth (a lot from being in front of a computer too much) and had some experience being treated. It's pretty fascinating how you can help get someone out of pain with nothing but your hands so that's what interested me. Long story short, if you're going to spend many hours a day doing something I think it's important that you are really into your profession or craft- otherwise no amount of money will fulfill you. Plus, I got tired of spending all my time in front of a screen. I prefer real socializing to social media :) Congrats on your change, I know the healthcare community will be better with more engineers joining the ranks. -Dr. Frank
Can I ask if the plastic slope design and dipped key area support the palm and hand on this keyboard? I get quite bad pain in my hand specifically (not my wrist) from using a regular keyboard (However I don't get any pain when using a razer tartarus) which has a curve and palm support. Thanks
I think about buying this keyboard, as I don’t like normal keyboards - I struggle really hard with being forced into such a unnatural position. My only concern is that I might run into problems with frequently switching between a normal laptop keyboard an this one. There is no way I could bring this to the lectures at university... do you or anybody else have any experience with that?
I've used the Advantage for the last 5 year and really love it. I love the ability to remap and map copy and paste to the Home and End keys. I'm not a programmer though. I just type a lot at work, typing notes and emails. It's not too bad switching back to a regular layout. C, X and Z are the hardest for me on a regular now, due to the column layout of the Kinesis. I also sometimes have to search for Backspace or Delete on a regular. I just forget where they are. I think it's worth learning the Kinesis, but it is kinda like learning to type for the first time. If you think you can dedicate time for it the ergonomics will make you not regret it.
I have been using Kinesis Advantage for over 9 years and loved the cupped key wells which makes the reach to upper and lower keys super easy from home row. Also, the placement of backspace, delete, enter and space on the thumb area is the best feature in my opinion. Only issue I have is that because the backspace and space position is so convenient that when I am using normal keybroad of friend/relative, I end up expecting back and space from both of my thumb on the space bar 😅
As far as I am informed the keys are german keys, but not quite shure if they are really made or onely designed in germany. By the way the keys can be exchanged easyly with ca. 8 other key types giving you different tactile feedback. Moreover the Keyboard can be ordered in 3 different (key-)setups.
It's awesome to get a review of this keyboard from a medical professional. I really like mine, it's definitely overpriced but in the end totally worth it if you're job is to sit and write code all day.
Thanks! For some, writing emails all day may be just as bad as coding. I agree it is pricey but if it can improve your longevity it's totally worth it. Sitting for work all day isn't quite as easy on the body as some may think!
@@integritychiropractic Excellent points! This is why I bought an electric sit/stand desk and a gaming chair. When that didn't quite do the trick for my neck, shoulder, and wrist pain I went out and bought this keyboard and it's been smooth sailing since.
dunno if you guys gives a shit but if you guys are bored like me atm then you can watch all of the latest series on InstaFlixxer. Been binge watching with my girlfriend during the lockdown =)
@Cyrus Emanuel Yup, have been using instaflixxer for since december myself :)
Overpriced? Try making your own for under what they were charging
the quality of the review is astonishing, thanks i'll keep tunned to your videos
Thank you Renato!
This is a great an in-depth review as i’m looking at a new ergonomic keyboard to help with shoulder pain. Thank you!
Thank you!
Hopefully you figured out that shoulder pain can be solved by sitting with your arms at your side without your shoulders rounded forward, and having arm rests at the correct height... good luck
@@hairyfeets That's some great advice. Thank you.
liked for the meticulous care you took in this review. thanks
Great review thanks!
It isn't flashy but man it is so crazy comfortable.
Just pulled the trigger on the last one on Amazon thanks in part to the depth of your review. But I’m probably not going to like some of the adjustments being a Mac user. I’m a dual thumb space bar user and that windows key on the right thumb cluster will now be the new command key on Mac and I use that key a lot. The backspace on the left thumb cluster will be quite the adjustment. My keyboard shortcuts are going to be quite the whirlwind
You're welcome! The good thing is that you'll be able to remap the keys to your liking and I did consider changing the backspace myself to be a secondary space bar as well during my testing. There's also an ability to set shortcuts/macros but I didn't explore that function extensively so please update us on how that goes if you do. At one point during typing I realized how many typos I actually make with the standard keyboard and have just become super adept at hitting backspace very fast all the time as a normal behavior to compensate for poor accuracy. It will be frustrating for the first week, but the keyboard really forces you to slow down and learn home key better. Learning to use the left arrow and DEL started to make a little more sense too, but obviously it's best if we can just have a very small error rate :). I can say I'm more accurate on the standard keyboard now after having gone through the Advantage2. -Dr. Frank
Integrity Chiropractic I’ll report back. I’m a touch typist and have always emphasized correct finger to correct keys but you noted the keys were ortholinear which I don’t believe has been mentioned much in other reviews, and hope that smooths over the adjustment period. I’m glad that you’re a major fan of yours. The key and finger correction has been mentioned by others, so I’m excited to learn if I have any bad habits despite my strict adherence to defaults. But it is interesting to hear about your experience with the backspace compensation. I make errors, too, but employ an option/alt + backspace or ctrl + w to delete entire words depending on the program to avoid hammering or holding backspace for repeated deletes. Has your typing speed gone back up to 80/90wpm? I’m curious how much of a shock to my typing speed will be and I anticipate it’ll take a month to get back near my current average.
@@wulymammoth Typing.com and typingtest.com were my best friends for training. I've been hammering the backspace for so many years I didn't even know how ridiculous it was until I couldn't do it anymore. Dictation is also harder than typing from a stream of consciousness for me- I imagine it must be similar for most individuals. I haven't used the keyboard since the review but I have absolutely no doubt if I was still using it I would be at 80wpm for purely text typing as I made it from 30WPM to 70WPM in 2 weeks with 10-20 minute training each day so I think it's doable. As I mentioned in the video, I don't find myself typing for more than a net 3 hours a day so the impact is minimal to me to use the standard keyboard. The effects have been lasting though as some of the bad habits I've worked out on the Advantage remain after reverting back to the standard keyboard again. But I'm curious and may just pull it back out to do a test to see if I can still use it well. I mainly bit the bullet to help desk workers out as I know it's tough on the body so anything to help as my patients know I'm a big believer of self care.
Integrity Chiropractic ah! I didn’t even look at it from a dictation perspective. That’s good to know. Yeah, it seems like you’re keeping the keyboard use to a minimum. I’m using my keyboard at least 6+ hours a day. This will be my third keyboard in four years. I hope to stop this keyboard buying habit. I upgraded to a vertical ergo mouse from a cheap vertical mouse a month ago and didn’t realize how much of a difference it made. I’m not much of a mouse user, but the comfort was so distinct. I’m hoping the same for the Advantage 🤞
@@integritychiropractic Tomorrow will be my 7th day with it. I got started on it last Tuesday evening. I was typing at 35wpm on that first night, clocked in at 42 the next day, and didn't check again until Saturday where I managed to get up to 98wpm (fastest), but my average was probably around 75wpm. The biggest adjustment has been relearning the keyboard shortcuts that I was so used to. I am a touch typist, but there were definitely a couple of poor habits that I had adopted and I think this keyboard helped me fix in a hurry. Typing code is still very much a weird experience as keys like the + and = are on the opposite side along with square brackets being in the bottom-right, so that'll take some more time to adjust. But aside from that, the keyboard is a bit of a dream to type on -- it's so comfortable for my hands with the concave key wells. I'm so happy and likely will be for many years to come with this keyboard. I also imagine that I'll be near my normal typing speed for most things by the end of week two and certainly back to my pre-Kinesis speeds in less than a month given the amount of time that I spend on a keyboard each day :D
"i used it for 2 weeks for 20 to 30 minutes " it would likely be more effective to use it for full recreational days. use it to type things which aren't time sensative and which lead to immediate reinforcement and a feeling of relevance.
i'm going to be using halmak on a ergo linear in that way.
Agreed, but there aren't many "full recreational days" these days lol
@@integritychiropractic the way i phrased that was rude, i apologize.
i'm impressed you managed to recover than much speed in just over 4 hours of total time. it being spread over 2 weeks makes it all the more notable. i wouldn't have made anywhere near that much progress.
why are you shooting for a higher typing speed? and what typing speed are you aiming for?
I didn't think you were being rude- so no worries. My comment was just in regards to the usual mid-life reality of most of us. I type fairly fast, so naturally most people would want to recover their usual speed. I don't type near enough volume that'd I'd need to type ridiculously fast though.
Thanks for the in-depth analysis! I use to be a software engineer, and am now pursuing medicine. What made you switch to chiropractics?
You're welcome! I had low back pain in my youth (a lot from being in front of a computer too much) and had some experience being treated. It's pretty fascinating how you can help get someone out of pain with nothing but your hands so that's what interested me. Long story short, if you're going to spend many hours a day doing something I think it's important that you are really into your profession or craft- otherwise no amount of money will fulfill you. Plus, I got tired of spending all my time in front of a screen. I prefer real socializing to social media :) Congrats on your change, I know the healthcare community will be better with more engineers joining the ranks. -Dr. Frank
I want it as a split version!
You are soon getting it! Adv 360
Can I ask if the plastic slope design and dipped key area support the palm and hand on this keyboard? I get quite bad pain in my hand specifically (not my wrist) from using a regular keyboard (However I don't get any pain when using a razer tartarus) which has a curve and palm support. Thanks
The palm rest does a nice job supporting the hand so you don't have to lift your fingers up into the air to reach out for keys.
@@integritychiropractic Thanks a lot for the reply!
How's the material quality? Is it sturdy or does it feel flimsy? This is actually a very old keyboard which I've wanted for years.
It's solid.
I think about buying this keyboard, as I don’t like normal keyboards - I struggle really hard with being forced into such a unnatural position. My only concern is that I might run into problems with frequently switching between a normal laptop keyboard an this one. There is no way I could bring this to the lectures at university... do you or anybody else have any experience with that?
I think that sounds like the perfect job for their Freestyle model.
wondering if laptops will ever change shape
I've used the Advantage for the last 5 year and really love it. I love the ability to remap and map copy and paste to the Home and End keys. I'm not a programmer though. I just type a lot at work, typing notes and emails. It's not too bad switching back to a regular layout. C, X and Z are the hardest for me on a regular now, due to the column layout of the Kinesis. I also sometimes have to search for Backspace or Delete on a regular. I just forget where they are. I think it's worth learning the Kinesis, but it is kinda like learning to type for the first time. If you think you can dedicate time for it the ergonomics will make you not regret it.
I have been using Kinesis Advantage for over 9 years and loved the cupped key wells which makes the reach to upper and lower keys super easy from home row.
Also, the placement of backspace, delete, enter and space on the thumb area is the best feature in my opinion.
Only issue I have is that because the backspace and space position is so convenient that when I am using normal keybroad of friend/relative, I end up expecting back and space from both of my thumb on the space bar 😅
this paired with vertical mouse...
Tbh I would get a Corne keyboard over this, since it is much cheaper and comes in two completely separate pieces connected by a cable.
I don't think my hands are big enough for that keyboard that's my only concern
Price?
$310.00 on Amazon
This keyboard was made in China. Being assembled local isn’t that big a deal
Not so much, but cool to see the company is in your backyard. Seattle tech pride I guess :)
@@integritychiropractic true enough :)
As far as I am informed the keys are german keys, but not quite shure if they are really made or onely designed in germany. By the way the keys can be exchanged easyly with ca. 8 other key types giving you different tactile feedback. Moreover the Keyboard can be ordered in 3 different (key-)setups.