Funny story, I found one of these keyboards when I was out of town at a used computer store. The store had it listed at $5 so despite it taking up hall of my carry on suitcase the kinesis keyboard came home with me.
I've been using my KA2 for 7 years now. I write sci fi novels for a living, and I spend an average of 6-8 hours/day pounding on my keyboard. Until I got the KA2, I had tremendous pain, and couldn't type more than an hour or so at a time. Since switching, I can type all day without any pain. I also remapped a lot of keys (kept the basic Qwerty though) so that I only have to use the shift key when I want to capitalize something. All of my commonly used punctuation symbols are single keys. Yes, I have a hard time when I'm forced to use a standard keyboard, but I rarely need to do so, and when I do, speed and longevity is not an issue. Love my KA2.
Hands down the best review I've seen for a keyboard. Keep up the good work! looking forward to seeing the full series. P.S - I would pay to get an hour at your desk and try out all these different keyboards. Guess hearing what you thought about them is second best!
I’ve been using and Advantage Pro (not Advantage 2) for about 15 years and I love the keyboard. All other flat keyboards are missing out on an amazing ergonomic feature. The only keyboard I’d ever consider trading out for is a Dactyl, which is basically the same keyboard layout but with less case. Also: I highly recommend mapping Control to the Caps Lock key. I may have also swapped which hand the arrow keys are on.
oh yeah, unless there is some reason one needs the caps lock (completely useless for me) remapping it to Ctrl is the only way to go. Make so many things so much easier.
I like that they don't charge me more so it comes in a prettier box. That's a huge plus for me. It shows where their priorities are. Thanks for the review. I'm going to get it.
Nice review. I don't get excited from packaging, myself. If I bought a keyboard, the pictures of a keyboard on the outside of the box are just... just there. I'm excited for the thing inside. I'm going to crack open the box and throw it away, I'm glad they didn't waste production money on graphics which will spend 20 seconds in my vision. But we are all different I guess.
It's so funny...I totally agree..it's just weird after having so many companies spend so much time on packaging that Kinesis was like "nah...it's what's in the box".
I got my first Kinesis in 2000. It's a PS2 connection. I added an Advantage (one) for the USB in 2003. Both are still going strong. For the last 5 years or so I've been alternating with an Ergodox EZ (first model without the lights) set up with the Kinesis key layout. I love it as well. It's a little more comfortable for long sessions because of the ability to have a wider arm spread (a more neutral, less tension building position). I've written to Kinesis many times suggesting that they cut the Advantage in half allowing for that wider spread while keeping that same ergonomic curved layout. Ah well. Maybe one day.
This Keyboard is a game changer. I have been using it for five years as a lawyer I type a lot. It allows access without effort to the number keys. The keyboard has saved my wrists from carpal tunnel damage in which I basically was going to end up using Dragon Speaking naturally to type. Now I do not have to wear a brace and have no pain in my wrists. Ok nothing is perfect but this comes the closest I have ever seen when it comes to a well thought out key arrangement. It just works better. The only thing I wish it had was illuminated letters so I could use it better in the dark. I can't think how to improve this device its just great. The reviewer points out it is not very portable but the truth is you won't leave it behind to be stuck with a regular keyboard.
Definitely does NOT feel cheap...but, regarding the plasticy statement - I'm not aware of many keyboards out there that aren't. That said, the thing is well built. But yes...100% plastic.
I've been typing on the Kinesis Advantage 2 with Cherry MX Browns for just 4 days and I'm already back to 60 to 75 wpm. My wpm were 70 to 85 wpm before I started with this keyboard. But unlike with the other keyboard, my fingers and wrists don't hurt now which is nice. I'm amazed at how long I can type for now. I wish the pinky finger keys on the number row were a little closer though.
Thanks for this video! Was looking for one like this for a bit of inspiration. I got my Kinesis Adv 2 as a Christmas gift a few weeks back and oh man .. it costs sweat and tears to get used to. Saying that I transitioned to Vim 2 years ago so I guess it can’t be worse than that 😂
I strongly considered the Advantage, but because I'm also a graphic designer I ended up going with the Moonlander (which I'm still getting used to). I think the only reason why I wouldn't recommend the Advantage is if you are going to be using graphics software where you are frequently using multiple modifier keys and the space bar at the same time with just one hand on the keyboard. Perhaps that's a use case for the foot pedals or having an Orbweaver next to the Advantage. I know you can remap keys and get key caps so that the keys are no longer mislabeled or at least blank, but the Advantage just doesn't seem to be built for the way that designers have to use a keyboard.
I'm a UX/UI Designer and can see what you mean, my keyboard hasn't even arrived and I've been studying the key maps comparing to how it works in Sketch and Figma, etc. I've planned quite a difference on how I'll use my keys being most are using modifers like yourself. I'm going to be replacing a few with macros (Cmd + Shft, Cmd + Alt, Cmd + Option) for the thumb row keys such as use home, end, pg up/down, etc. since I never use them. I believe it can be used for a designer, then again ... I'm more into the UI side than typical graphic design but I feel we share the similarites of modifiers, (space + drag, etc).
@@RadioActiveOreo Because of my hand size I leave the thumb cluster flat (using a 3d-printed leg to keep it raised up). I probably would have been a tiny bit happier with the ErgoDox EZ Glow, but the Moonlander has certainly been good. The only thing I'm struggling with long-term is that the Ctrl, Win, and Alt keys (which I have assigned to lower left keys, just like on a regular keyboard, and on the right thumb cluster) are still tricky to use in design software because the keys all feel the same. They are all the same size and close to each other. And I have to go off the home row to use them so it's a little awkward to use but it's not too bad, just not perfect. I tried to fix this by changing the order of the keys to Win, Ctrl, Alt...but that didn't work. I'm also planning on creating a curved keyboard like the Dactyl that can be used by graphic designers, since I think there's a need for it.
@@GlenMoyes I literally just put in an order for an ergodox last night! It was a long debate between that and the advantage 2, but your comment was ultimately the deal breaker - i hadn't even considered that prior! As a designer myself your experience has been SO helpful to read through, so thank you for the comprehensive write-ups!! The dactyl did indeed seem like it would have been the ideal as a split concave model, so i hope one day they'll be more easily accessible.
I got the Kinesis Advantage 2 after I realized my right hand had some issue after many years playing bass professionally. After going through physio and also changing my keyboard and mouse to the Kensington Expert mouse, has been amazing in the studio using the remapping and macro features of the keyboard. Can't go back to a normal keyboard.
But honestly, using Vim as an editor (I also mapped Vim movement keys for the entire OS) really reduces most of the finger/hand starches you are mentioning here. Vim has a steep learning curve, we all know that, but man, when you get the hang of it, you never go back.
@@Amal-kp8qb Hey, Firs of all, I'm a Mac user. I use spectacle for window management, and for vim movement keys I use karabiner-elements. So now instead of using arrow keys, I use ctrl+h/j/k/l. Also, my caps-lock key is my ctrl key so there is no strain with combining ctrl with anything.
The foot pedal is more of use when doing audio transcription. Sometimes professional typists use it to pause the playback whilst their typing catches up. Or with 3 pedals, to skip back and forwards too. So not so much for a modifier, but for a hotkey combination that pauses and resumes the media player.
you prolly dont care but if you're bored like me atm you can stream pretty much all the latest movies and series on instaflixxer. Been streaming with my girlfriend for the last days :)
Hey Allen --Long time Coding Blocks fan. I'm wondering if there's any good way to test drive these before making a commitment? I'm very interested in switching to an ergo keyboard but I'm torn between this one, the Moonlander, and the EZ. The moonlander seems appealing because i could take it to a coffee shop if i wanted to. The kinesis looks like an amazing keyboard, but looks bulky and unsightly. Almost like a big 90s arcade controller
Awesome...just remember...it's a journey! :-) If you've been debating it and you've picked it up, I have no doubt you'll love it after it's had time to marinate. Congrats and good luck!
@@AllenUnderwood I "played" a couple different typing games and got myself up to speed (and beyond) in under 3 weeks. Recommend the typing games (Typer Shark etc.)
I just replaced the cable on my Kinesis Advantage which I've had since 2013. I use this keyboard in my lap and find the concave layout helps a lot. I mainly use the program key function when I game to change the space bar to the back back space key because some games won't let you rebind that. With so many years on this keyboard, the switches are about worn out. I'm looking forward to the Advantage 360 which should get delivered to those lucky people that managed to snag one when they were released. I am a lazyboy recliner type computer user. Couldn't have done it without this keyboard.
I totally agree with your comment on the time that needs to be put in and the frustration that comes with using this keyboard in the first few days, sometimes weeks. Once you are past that point, this is one fantastic keyboard to use and then there's no going back to anything else. I sometimes joke that when I die, I want to be buried with this keyboard and a Thinkpad running Linux, if there is an afterlife, then I sure as hell want these things with me, haha. For anyone who's impatient, this is probably not the keyboard to go for. The frustration from the sheer amount of typos that they make will get to them rather quickly.
I've been using one of these for about a year. It is awesome. No pain, I type faster. I'm buying another just in case so I never have to use a standard keyboard again.
Long time Maltron & Kinesis Advantage User. I moved the arrow keys (and E) to the thumbs and set up the F-keys as chords with backtick + regular numbers using AuthHotkey. the micro F keys on top are simply not usable, whereas the Maltron keyboard has an extra top row of full F-keys. I also moved minus under plus together on the top right.
Been using this since 2000 and now have three of them. They literally saved my career from RSI. I've tried many other keyboards, and absolutely love my Keyboardio Model 01 and Atreus, but this Kinesis remains the undisputed king. 6 keys per thumb - This Is The Way! If only it had palm keys like the Model 01, an adjustable split design like the Moonlander, and packed down to the size of a phone ...
Yes it’s true! It took about 4 weeks for me to get back to what i was used to, but once i got used to it i can type on it with my eyes closed and i type faster than ever. Using the keyboard completely reduced the strain on my shoulders that i was feeling and it reduced the rsi i was getting. Love this keyboard! I’ve been considering a maltron just to try it
First thing I did when I got mine 10 years ago was swap the space and backspace keys. Still hammering away at it like that. I don't recall having the issues you had though. A little startup roughness, but shouting and yelling at the keyboard? Were you able to correctly type blind already before moving over? That does help a lot.
LOL - yes...been typing (as a software developer) for 20+ years...never look at the keyboard. The layout of this thing is so much different than any other keyboard I've ever used.
@@AllenUnderwood I had to hunt for a bunch of keys at first (like the += in the top left and the changed ~` key because of that, the {[ and ]} as well. Like you I'm a developer, so those keys are part of the routine. The arrows were also a bit getting used to), but I managed to get used pretty quickly. I did notice I barely use the F-keys at all. I have an older one than you and those keys are small membrane pieces of junk. Sadly that does impact the Esc too, which I use a lot as a do most coding in vim. Fortunately I'm still able to quickly switch between this and old school querty boards, so I'm not badly affected when using another machine. How did that work for you?
Nice review but there's one problem for coders because you still have to reach the mouse far right. Can you try putting a trackpad on its center and tell us your experience? thanks.
As a software developer who has used a Kinesis Advantage for over a decade, the mouse reach with this is the same as with a TKL. The center is just a bit too small to accommodate an Apple Magic Trackpad; other trackpad models might fit better. I use a right-hand trackball mouse, but also use a lot of keyboard-driven shortcuts for my daily needs.
That stinks man. On the flip side, 8 years is a decent amount of time to own / user any tool daily. Still doesn't make it any easier to break out the wallet again.
I can see that it is comfortable and good for you're wrists, but man, it is NOT pretty :) pure 90s style :) I'm waiting to see multiple CRT monitors on your desk to go with it :D And yes, it's portable, you could also bring those CRT monitors with it to the coffee shop :D But great review! Can't wait for the other ones even though I'm an Apple magic keyboard kind of a guy :) Thanks!
It's most definitely not going to win any beauty contests, but like I said in the review, the layout of the keys is so well done. It's a massive block of plastic to cover up a chunk of your desk to be sure though!!!!
@@AllenUnderwood I think it should come with some extra desk besides those pads :D Man, you really made my day with this vid, can't wait to see the other keyboards.
@@inelpandzic Awesome! Glad I could bring some joy. The plan is to have a review of the Zergotech Freedom out next weekend. So hopefully they'll be coming a little more quickly now that the holidays are behind me.
I dont like silent switch because is too light that increased the error rate, miss typed just by touch the side of the key and I got frustrating. so I chose the brown switch.
Frustating experience with Microsoft Natural 4000. Considering the MX Brown (for QWERTY keys) /ML (for F keys) switches for this, but give me hot-swappable KA2 so I can put Cherry MX Clears (or Blacks, best Silent once available) and a no-brainer for me 😉
You think you had it bad! I'm trying to adapt to the Advantage 2 keyboard AND learn to touch-type for the first time in my life...at the same time...and I'm about to turn 67. Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get anywhere. I keep looking at other keyboards, then I think, nah, I already paid so much for this one.... And I only practice for 30 minutes a day.... At least I gave up on learning Dvorak too. When I started, I was going to learn Dvorak, touch-typing, and the KA2 all at once. I got up to 20 WPM before I threw in the towel. I think I have a tendency to bite off more than I can chew.
I wonder whether or not adding a very thin layer of textured transparent paint or glue to the top of some of the keys would help the brain realize that fingers are about to hit the wrong key. Just an idea...
I have two Advantages; it looks like they removed the USB ports from the back. Both of my keyboards have the USB ports and they're great b/c I can a small light over the k/b for night typing. I LOVE that I can use the Dvorak layout and that I can program macros into the keyboard.
I was ready to throw it out the window for the first week. Still hated it in week 2. By week 4 I was back to my regular speed. Now I'm faster on this keyboard than I've ever been. Primarily because I ONLY touch type and that is just faster. No more bad habits!
Great video! I got the 360 recently and stumbled across this video -- I had the identical experience with my keyboard. Was nice seeing someone else with an honest review and great detail. Was curious if you gave the 360 a try? Keep it up!
Thank you for the honest review. I'm still with my Microsoft r4000 the granddaddy of all ergos. I remember having a try at one of these keyboards years ago and also looking at them again as I'm debating what to do with my 4000 keyboard as the wrists are fine but my fingers get sore from mashing on the keys after a while. Would be great if they had a place that would take your vintage keyboards and switch them to better switches, but I wonder if even that will help with the finger pain. Have a feeling that pads at the bottom of key travel may help some as I think the abrupt stop at the end of typing a letter is what is making my fingers sore. Thanks again for the review. Oh kinesis two reasons not jumping, I like a padded rest and return off from my pinky not thumb. Although I think like you said after a month it just may be worth the switch. Thanks again.
Dude that was great, thorough, comprehensive review... only one major drawback you almost didn't show the keyboard, I expect at least around 50/50 but I got 90/10 (you/keyboard)
Hi, very nice review, but what do you think about the F row keys? Are they nice? They certainly don't look being cherry mx. As a Visual Studio user myself, I use the F row a lot when debugging.
I know it seems counter-intuitive - but for MOST people, the split and the the concave design of the keys is game changing. Better than absolutely every other keyboard I've tried to date. Now...would I love it if the split was a free split? Sure...but like I said, for most people this thing will just work.
I'd imagine if that's the only bad habit, you'd probably get along just fine with this keyboard...might actually be beneficial as the keys are closer together!
I'm using for 4 months now, I hitting 70wpm in average. But I'm still training hours per week SINCE I GOT IT talking about comfort, it's definitely the best keyboard I ever had
I did the same thing. Starting using it all the time and did as much typing as I could. That plus not getting frustrated at the plethora of typos, rectifying any improper usages of keys right away, were things that made the adjustment to it and getting productive with the keyboard a lot faster. It really is a fantastic keyboard, no other keyboard has me using all my fingers so comfortably as the Kinesis Advantage does.
great review thank you. i am typing this on day one with the new keyboard hahaha. honestly it isn't as bad as what i thought it would be to relearn. i think aggressive typers struggle more, but since i am a careful typer, i only went from my usual 60+ wpm to 30wpm. my first tests were a12wpm, but i am still on day one and i have been getting above 30wpm now. and i am even having to relearn bad habits with left hand space bar, right hand B, and index finger C. all that to say if you are careful and patient as a typer, then the transition isn't as bad as i feared.
That's just awesome! One thing I THINK may have helped me when I was getting used to the keyboard would have been to look down more - just to mentally. map the new layout rather than being stubborn and unwilling to look because "I've been typing for 20 years"! That's awesome to hear you're making great progress on day one!!!
@@AllenUnderwood i see you. yeah i think i did map it out which helped me. and i wasn't using any numbers on those typing tests which made it easier. thanks for the video! it seems to be helping my carpal tunnel/tendonitis out already so im excited.
For me going back and forth between the extreme ergonomic keyboards and laptops isn't an issue. That's probably because I do that switch every day. Usually at work I'll be on the ergo's, and when I sit down at night to browse the internet or do other things, I'm on my laptop. It really hasn't been an issue at all...I will occasionally find myself hitting a wrong key once before I realize I need to mentally switch back to the other. Otherwise, really no issue at all.
Then the MX Silent red are to get, but Kinesis is infamous for introducing the MX Brown - the most popular switch today, that is waaay light to me (I'm an MX Clear proponent)
I’ve been using the Advantage 360 Pro since it came out in October 2022. I used the Advantage / Advantage Pro since about 2010. The general feel switching from the old Advantage to the 360 was generally pretty easy once I made some adjustments to the layout. The big differences being that Kinesis put the Escape key where Caps Lock would be on the older Advantage boards and needing to use the new Fn keys to access the function keys. The standard model 360 (not the “Pro” model) has a supposedly easier to use configuration similar to the older Advantage keyboards, but the Pro model uses ZMK and requires a little more work to make changes to the layout, e.g. cloning a GitHub repository and using GitHub’s workflows to build the firmware images. However, the Pro model also has a lot more flexibility in the configurations. I really appreciate that the 360 has a built-in adjustable tenting mechanism, has separate halves that I can move and angle as I want, and has a solid build quality as I’ve come to expect from Kinesis. The 360 comes with Gateron Brown tactile switches, which are comparable to the Cherry Brown switches, although I think they may be just a touch lighter. I know many others would prefer linear or silent switches; I’m the odd one that would prefer Box Navy clicky switches. I’m not going to desolder my keyboard for them, though, and I didn’t want to wait for a custom keyboard from Upgrade Keyboards so browns it is. I’ve read that many others have had issues with Bluetooth connectivity with their 360 Pro boards. I’ve not experienced that personally, but there are several factors that may play into that. First, I only have my 360 connected to one device. Some comments I’ve seen suggest that having multiple devices may cause issues with BT connectivity. Second, I’m using a “v1.0”-based firmware. I recently tried to update my firmware to be based off Kinesis’s “v3.0” branch, but when I installed the firmware on the keyboard it would not connect to the computer over Bluetooth. Reverting back to a v1.0 branch fixed that issue. This could easily have been user error, however, as I had a significant merge conflict that I may have resolved poorly and didn’t want to spend any more time trying to resolve. YMMV. When Kinesis called it a “Pro” model, they obviously meant that the user needs to have experience with editing code configurations and troubleshooting software issues.
Regarding the 6 key: I'm blind. Would you please describe where the 6 key is located? So far, every ergo keyboard I've looked at has the 6 key on the left side. It drives me nuts! Does anyone have the 6 key on the right side of the split?
@@dperrin Thanks for the information. I learned how to touch-type when I was in high-school. That was before I was told about my eye condition. Of course, being able to touch-type is a really handy skill now that I can't see the keyboard. Anyway, the point of my story is that when properly trained, one hits the 4 and 5 key with the left index finger. The 7 and 6 keys are hit with the right index finger. When I have to hunt for the 6 key, it's like having a piece of gravel in my shoe. It's not much but it's constantly irritating.
@@surferdude4487 I picked up on this keyboard surprisingly quick, but after watching a few other reviews I think it's because I could touch type properly/according to the book. I never really knew about the 4,5 and 6,7 keys though! I probably learned it in school, but primarily used a numpad and forgot about that. If you can do that, I think you'll adjust to a keyboard like this fairly quickly. I've had mine for less than a week, but I was up to 70 wpm in the first day. I still make a few mistakes (parentheses, braces, and the +/= button), but overall I'm enjoying it.
@@dperrin The numpad? Us blind folks use that for navigating. The only time I turn the Numlock on is when I have to input a lot of numbers. Still, there's the "^" symbol. Sometimes I have to use that when programming or in math formulas on spreadsheets. When I see a design decision made wrong, both Logitech and Microsoft made the same error, It makes me wonder if they have anyone that touch-types on the design team.
@Koh Flugilo That's a reasonable question. I did a lot of research on this subject since I posted the original comment. You are correct that the 6 key is physically closer to the left index finger on a real mechanical typewriter. Which hand you are trained to hit the 6 key with depends on where you learned to touch type. In Canada and USA, people are trained to use the right hand. In some European nations, they are trained to strike the 6 key with the left hand. Microsoft has always put the 6 key on the left side of the split. The original Logitech ergo keyboard put the 6 key on the right side of the split. The newer Logitech K860 keyboard, however has moved the 6 key to the left side of the split. The K860 is otherwise an excellent keyboard for the money. So, the answer to your question is, "It depends on where you learned how to type.".
Amazing video. Really down to earth with no sales pitch but still a deep appreciation of the product. I’m looking at one right now on eBay lol wish me luck and keep up the amazing work!😊
I did put them on there. It does make a bit of a difference - I wouldn't say night and day because I didn't find the keyboard uncomfortable without the pads, but it is a little more cozy.
I have one, and have a few issues. It is extremely bulky, I think the cursor keys often work much better in a triangular or diamond pattern since I often use these keys repetitively. And if they had just put the control key in the normal position would have been so nice for me. That is the thing that mostly irritating.
Would be interested in how the different keyboards address the most relevant factors in ergonomic keyboards and which one covers the most / them the best - as that is what we buy them for: * pronation and wrist pain (ulnar/carpal/cubital tunnel) > tented/angled * shoulders > split * fingers, tendons > type and setup of keys and switches (well-form, flat, ortholinear, mechanical etc) * whatever I am forgetting
I like that - I may try and itemize that in my next review of the Moonlander...and after I'm done with all the crazy ergo reviews, I may do a wrap up of the extreme ergos and try to address these. Thanks for the feedback.
I've already got one - had a few false starts with it. I appreciate I need to put in some time but work gets in the way! You have persuaded me to have another go. Wish me luck!
So Allen, just over a year later, what is your daily driver? I'm on day two with this thing and am just happy I can type this out without prematurely hitting Enter. I am wondering if the Kinesis freestyle edge would give me 90% of the advantage without the brain revolt. What are your thoughts? I do see the Advantage2 forcing me to rid myself of some bad form\techniques.
I'm probably the wrong person to ask about that as I don't do much gaming on computers because it kills my wrists. That said, I see no reason why it wouldn't be great - for a couple reasons...the keyboard is very responsive and it's wired so I'd imagine there'd be very low latency. But again, I haven't really tried so maybe someone else out there can answer this better with some experience?
So I have terrible RA with some slightly warped fingers. This makes me wonder if this keyboard would help with pain relief or not. I do a lot of development, and prefer to use vim but do a lot in vscode as well, do a lot of note taking in obsidian, and write books using various word processors. Anyone have any feedback on RA and using a non conforming keyboard such as this? It is between this and moonlander for me at the moment. I am planning on getting the System 76 heavy first, as a standard option.
Ctrl + arrow to move words? Start using Vim/NeoVim and you will find out the next new efficient thing next to that keyboard. It will also probably take you about a month to really start having a nice workflow there (with a few plugins). Nice review
I have been using Kinesis Advantage (Dvorak Layout) since 2014. And as my keyboard is showing few signs of ageing, I am thinking of getting a replacement. What should be the best option for me, considering am very comfortable with the Advantage Key Well design and Dvorak layout. These are the 3 keyboards in my list. 1) Kenisis Advantage Pro (once its available) 2) Kenisis Advantage 2 3) Kenisis Freestyle Pro Appreciate any suggestions.
Advantage 360 (Pro if you want more configurable programming and don’t mind flashing the firmware; otherwise stick with the base model that has on-board programming)
I didn't have enough money to buy this beast, but I do have a soldering gun and access to a 3D printer so I made a dactyl manuform which is pretty much the same thing except split.
Definitely. That's next up. I had actually planned to do the review over the past two weekends but I've been absolutely slammed with work. So....soon...it's coming very soon! And i do plan to do another separate review where I compare the three I've done so far - the Kinesis Advantage 2, the Moonlander, and the Zergotech.
@@AllenUnderwood thanks so much for the reply! Would be awesome to know what might be a better choice for smaller hands (mine are 17cm/6.7inch, way smaller than yours). Looking forward to it!
@@mfl9903 I have similar-sized hands and tried my friend's moonlander. It felt too big for me. I felt like I had to constantly reach for everything that wasn't a home key (disclaimer, i only had it for a few days). If you have a way of trying it out I would do that before buying, esp since returns are gonna cost you around $40.
@@AllenUnderwood I also have concerns as a small-hand typer. How big are your wife's hands? Would she be open to providing some feedback on the comfortability of these keyboards?
Funny story, I found one of these keyboards when I was out of town at a used computer store. The store had it listed at $5 so despite it taking up hall of my carry on suitcase the kinesis keyboard came home with me.
wow, i read this comment right after I got mine for lik3 400 cad lol, hope u enjoy your keyboard :D
I've been using my KA2 for 7 years now. I write sci fi novels for a living, and I spend an average of 6-8 hours/day pounding on my keyboard. Until I got the KA2, I had tremendous pain, and couldn't type more than an hour or so at a time. Since switching, I can type all day without any pain. I also remapped a lot of keys (kept the basic Qwerty though) so that I only have to use the shift key when I want to capitalize something. All of my commonly used punctuation symbols are single keys. Yes, I have a hard time when I'm forced to use a standard keyboard, but I rarely need to do so, and when I do, speed and longevity is not an issue. Love my KA2.
Been using this keyboard daily for over 5 years...work and home. It's amazing. Worth the price. Good quality, even if it isn't flashy.
For work, did you buy it yourself or did you get your work to get it for you?
Hands down the best review I've seen for a keyboard. Keep up the good work! looking forward to seeing the full series.
P.S - I would pay to get an hour at your desk and try out all these different keyboards. Guess hearing what you thought about them is second best!
That's excellent - I really appreciate that. I'll do my best to convey my thoughts on all of them!
I’ve been using and Advantage Pro (not Advantage 2) for about 15 years and I love the keyboard. All other flat keyboards are missing out on an amazing ergonomic feature. The only keyboard I’d ever consider trading out for is a Dactyl, which is basically the same keyboard layout but with less case.
Also: I highly recommend mapping Control to the Caps Lock key. I may have also swapped which hand the arrow keys are on.
oh yeah, unless there is some reason one needs the caps lock (completely useless for me) remapping it to Ctrl is the only way to go. Make so many things so much easier.
I like that they don't charge me more so it comes in a prettier box. That's a huge plus for me. It shows where their priorities are. Thanks for the review. I'm going to get it.
8:37 "ortholinear"
Nice review.
I don't get excited from packaging, myself. If I bought a keyboard, the pictures of a keyboard on the outside of the box are just... just there. I'm excited for the thing inside. I'm going to crack open the box and throw it away, I'm glad they didn't waste production money on graphics which will spend 20 seconds in my vision. But we are all different I guess.
It's so funny...I totally agree..it's just weird after having so many companies spend so much time on packaging that Kinesis was like "nah...it's what's in the box".
I got my first Kinesis in 2000. It's a PS2 connection. I added an Advantage (one) for the USB in 2003. Both are still going strong. For the last 5 years or so I've been alternating with an Ergodox EZ (first model without the lights) set up with the Kinesis key layout. I love it as well. It's a little more comfortable for long sessions because of the ability to have a wider arm spread (a more neutral, less tension building position). I've written to Kinesis many times suggesting that they cut the Advantage in half allowing for that wider spread while keeping that same ergonomic curved layout. Ah well. Maybe one day.
They should be unveiling it next month. The Advantage 360!
That day has come: Advantage 360 (wired) and Advantage 360 Pro (BT).
Ordered mine already...
Looks like you are the "Father" of the new Advantage 360!!
Any Excel user here? My pinky is suffering from using Ctrl combo shortcut keys and wonder if this keyboard will help
Switch it to Dvorak layout and get 1000 words per minute :)
This Keyboard is a game changer. I have been using it for five years as a lawyer I type a lot. It allows access without effort to the number keys. The keyboard has saved my wrists from carpal tunnel damage in which I basically was going to end up using Dragon Speaking naturally to type. Now I do not have to wear a brace and have no pain in my wrists. Ok nothing is perfect but this comes the closest I have ever seen when it comes to a well thought out key arrangement. It just works better. The only thing I wish it had was illuminated letters so I could use it better in the dark. I can't think how to improve this device its just great. The reviewer points out it is not very portable but the truth is you won't leave it behind to be stuck with a regular keyboard.
Thank you for sharing. That's excellent to hear. I also agree with having backlit keys. Would be nearly perfect then.
Kinesis Advantage 360 has backlighting, is split and has tenting. The only problem is getting hold of one.
it looks very plastic-y and cheap for a $300+ board.
Definitely does NOT feel cheap...but, regarding the plasticy statement - I'm not aware of many keyboards out there that aren't. That said, the thing is well built. But yes...100% plastic.
I've been typing on the Kinesis Advantage 2 with Cherry MX Browns for just 4 days and I'm already back to 60 to 75 wpm. My wpm were 70 to 85 wpm before I started with this keyboard. But unlike with the other keyboard, my fingers and wrists don't hurt now which is nice. I'm amazed at how long I can type for now. I wish the pinky finger keys on the number row were a little closer though.
Beautiful review man, this is exactly what a end user wants for understanding all of its qualities and cons. Cheers.
Thank you :-)
Thanks for this video! Was looking for one like this for a bit of inspiration.
I got my Kinesis Adv 2 as a Christmas gift a few weeks back and oh man .. it costs sweat and tears to get used to. Saying that I transitioned to Vim 2 years ago so I guess it can’t be worse than that 😂
Question, did it take you long to get used to the position of the curly braces? That’s killing me
@@danielconde6433 LOL - YES! But...after my brain retrained, it flows well now. But yeah it was rough for the first few weeks.
I strongly considered the Advantage, but because I'm also a graphic designer I ended up going with the Moonlander (which I'm still getting used to). I think the only reason why I wouldn't recommend the Advantage is if you are going to be using graphics software where you are frequently using multiple modifier keys and the space bar at the same time with just one hand on the keyboard. Perhaps that's a use case for the foot pedals or having an Orbweaver next to the Advantage. I know you can remap keys and get key caps so that the keys are no longer mislabeled or at least blank, but the Advantage just doesn't seem to be built for the way that designers have to use a keyboard.
I'm a UX/UI Designer and can see what you mean, my keyboard hasn't even arrived and I've been studying the key maps comparing to how it works in Sketch and Figma, etc. I've planned quite a difference on how I'll use my keys being most are using modifers like yourself. I'm going to be replacing a few with macros (Cmd + Shft, Cmd + Alt, Cmd + Option) for the thumb row keys such as use home, end, pg up/down, etc. since I never use them.
I believe it can be used for a designer, then again ... I'm more into the UI side than typical graphic design but I feel we share the similarites of modifiers, (space + drag, etc).
Do you feel like the Moonlander was the right decision for you?
@@RadioActiveOreo Because of my hand size I leave the thumb cluster flat (using a 3d-printed leg to keep it raised up). I probably would have been a tiny bit happier with the ErgoDox EZ Glow, but the Moonlander has certainly been good. The only thing I'm struggling with long-term is that the Ctrl, Win, and Alt keys (which I have assigned to lower left keys, just like on a regular keyboard, and on the right thumb cluster) are still tricky to use in design software because the keys all feel the same. They are all the same size and close to each other. And I have to go off the home row to use them so it's a little awkward to use but it's not too bad, just not perfect. I tried to fix this by changing the order of the keys to Win, Ctrl, Alt...but that didn't work. I'm also planning on creating a curved keyboard like the Dactyl that can be used by graphic designers, since I think there's a need for it.
@@GlenMoyes I literally just put in an order for an ergodox last night! It was a long debate between that and the advantage 2, but your comment was ultimately the deal breaker - i hadn't even considered that prior! As a designer myself your experience has been SO helpful to read through, so thank you for the comprehensive write-ups!! The dactyl did indeed seem like it would have been the ideal as a split concave model, so i hope one day they'll be more easily accessible.
I got the Kinesis Advantage 2 after I realized my right hand had some issue after many years playing bass professionally. After going through physio and also changing my keyboard and mouse to the Kensington Expert mouse, has been amazing in the studio using the remapping and macro features of the keyboard. Can't go back to a normal keyboard.
Great review, pretty thorough. And I'm liking this based on your review, but I'm looking forward to your other KB reviews.
But honestly, using Vim as an editor (I also mapped Vim movement keys for the entire OS) really reduces most of the finger/hand starches you are mentioning here. Vim has a steep learning curve, we all know that, but man, when you get the hang of it, you never go back.
Yeah, for any type of gains in anything in this life, you really have to be willing to put in the time and effort.
Do you use a tiling window manager? How did you map Vim bindings across your OS, if I may ask?
@@Amal-kp8qb Hey, Firs of all, I'm a Mac user. I use spectacle for window management, and for vim movement keys I use karabiner-elements. So now instead of using arrow keys, I use ctrl+h/j/k/l. Also, my caps-lock key is my ctrl key so there is no strain with combining ctrl with anything.
@@Amal-kp8qb Hey, for the past 6 months I started to use Yabai tiling window manager for Mac, it is really awesome.
The foot pedal is more of use when doing audio transcription. Sometimes professional typists use it to pause the playback whilst their typing catches up. Or with 3 pedals, to skip back and forwards too. So not so much for a modifier, but for a hotkey combination that pauses and resumes the media player.
Me realizing how familiar your voice was and just realizing I was listening to coding blocks youtube channel! I listen to your podcast here and there.
Ha, that's awesome. Nice to meet you :)
you prolly dont care but if you're bored like me atm you can stream pretty much all the latest movies and series on instaflixxer. Been streaming with my girlfriend for the last days :)
@Brentley Ford Yea, I have been watching on instaflixxer for since november myself =)
Lol definitely no bots in this comment thread xD
Hey Allen --Long time Coding Blocks fan. I'm wondering if there's any good way to test drive these before making a commitment?
I'm very interested in switching to an ergo keyboard but I'm torn between this one, the Moonlander, and the EZ.
The moonlander seems appealing because i could take it to a coffee shop if i wanted to.
The kinesis looks like an amazing keyboard, but looks bulky and unsightly. Almost like a big 90s arcade controller
loved the review - picked up one after watching this...
Awesome...just remember...it's a journey! :-) If you've been debating it and you've picked it up, I have no doubt you'll love it after it's had time to marinate. Congrats and good luck!
@@AllenUnderwood I "played" a couple different typing games and got myself up to speed (and beyond) in under 3 weeks. Recommend the typing games (Typer Shark etc.)
I just replaced the cable on my Kinesis Advantage which I've had since 2013. I use this keyboard in my lap and find the concave layout helps a lot. I mainly use the program key function when I game to change the space bar to the back back space key because some games won't let you rebind that. With so many years on this keyboard, the switches are about worn out. I'm looking forward to the Advantage 360 which should get delivered to those lucky people that managed to snag one when they were released. I am a lazyboy recliner type computer user. Couldn't have done it without this keyboard.
I want to get my hands on that Advantage 360
I totally agree with your comment on the time that needs to be put in and the frustration that comes with using this keyboard in the first few days, sometimes weeks. Once you are past that point, this is one fantastic keyboard to use and then there's no going back to anything else. I sometimes joke that when I die, I want to be buried with this keyboard and a Thinkpad running Linux, if there is an afterlife, then I sure as hell want these things with me, haha.
For anyone who's impatient, this is probably not the keyboard to go for. The frustration from the sheer amount of typos that they make will get to them rather quickly.
LOL - so true
what keys did you get, the brown or the lighter pink? Did you have any issues accidentally pressing extra keys with the pink light ones?
I've been using one of these for about a year. It is awesome. No pain, I type faster. I'm buying another just in case so I never have to use a standard keyboard again.
Mate, you've just earned yourself a subscriber. Cracking video. Cheers.
Thank you :-)
just use vim then you won't need to use those silly keycombos
Long time Maltron & Kinesis Advantage User. I moved the arrow keys (and E) to the thumbs and set up the F-keys as chords with backtick + regular numbers using AuthHotkey. the micro F keys on top are simply not usable, whereas the Maltron keyboard has an extra top row of full F-keys. I also moved minus under plus together on the top right.
Been using this since 2000 and now have three of them. They literally saved my career from RSI. I've tried many other keyboards, and absolutely love my Keyboardio Model 01 and Atreus, but this Kinesis remains the undisputed king. 6 keys per thumb - This Is The Way! If only it had palm keys like the Model 01, an adjustable split design like the Moonlander, and packed down to the size of a phone ...
how about microsoft ergonomic keyboard?
Adjustable spilt: Have you heard about the new Advantage 360?
Yes it’s true! It took about 4 weeks for me to get back to what i was used to, but once i got used to it i can type on it with my eyes closed and i type faster than ever. Using the keyboard completely reduced the strain on my shoulders that i was feeling and it reduced the rsi i was getting. Love this keyboard! I’ve been considering a maltron just to try it
Fantastic!!!
Do you use brown or red switches?
First thing I did when I got mine 10 years ago was swap the space and backspace keys. Still hammering away at it like that. I don't recall having the issues you had though. A little startup roughness, but shouting and yelling at the keyboard? Were you able to correctly type blind already before moving over? That does help a lot.
LOL - yes...been typing (as a software developer) for 20+ years...never look at the keyboard. The layout of this thing is so much different than any other keyboard I've ever used.
@@AllenUnderwood I had to hunt for a bunch of keys at first (like the += in the top left and the changed ~` key because of that, the {[ and ]} as well. Like you I'm a developer, so those keys are part of the routine. The arrows were also a bit getting used to), but I managed to get used pretty quickly.
I did notice I barely use the F-keys at all. I have an older one than you and those keys are small membrane pieces of junk. Sadly that does impact the Esc too, which I use a lot as a do most coding in vim.
Fortunately I'm still able to quickly switch between this and old school querty boards, so I'm not badly affected when using another machine. How did that work for you?
Nice review but there's one problem for coders because you still have to reach the mouse far right. Can you try putting a trackpad on its center and tell us your experience? thanks.
As a software developer who has used a Kinesis Advantage for over a decade, the mouse reach with this is the same as with a TKL. The center is just a bit too small to accommodate an Apple Magic Trackpad; other trackpad models might fit better. I use a right-hand trackball mouse, but also use a lot of keyboard-driven shortcuts for my daily needs.
Best keyboard I have ever used... Looking for a replacement after 8 years of continues heavy use... Bad luck I damaged the power cord this week
That stinks man. On the flip side, 8 years is a decent amount of time to own / user any tool daily. Still doesn't make it any easier to break out the wallet again.
been looking at this keyboard for years, building a new pc and may buy it this time.
Like I said in the review - it took some time but I truly love the keyboard.
I can see that it is comfortable and good for you're wrists, but man, it is NOT pretty :) pure 90s style :) I'm waiting to see multiple CRT monitors on your desk to go with it :D
And yes, it's portable, you could also bring those CRT monitors with it to the coffee shop :D
But great review! Can't wait for the other ones even though I'm an Apple magic keyboard kind of a guy :) Thanks!
It's most definitely not going to win any beauty contests, but like I said in the review, the layout of the keys is so well done. It's a massive block of plastic to cover up a chunk of your desk to be sure though!!!!
@@AllenUnderwood I think it should come with some extra desk besides those pads :D Man, you really made my day with this vid, can't wait to see the other keyboards.
@@inelpandzic Awesome! Glad I could bring some joy. The plan is to have a review of the Zergotech Freedom out next weekend. So hopefully they'll be coming a little more quickly now that the holidays are behind me.
“If you want to be nice you should probably get the quiet ones” 😂
I dont like silent switch because is too light that increased the error rate, miss typed just by touch the side of the key and I got frustrating. so I chose the brown switch.
Frustating experience with Microsoft Natural 4000. Considering the MX Brown (for QWERTY keys) /ML (for F keys) switches for this, but give me hot-swappable KA2 so I can put Cherry MX Clears (or Blacks, best Silent once available) and a no-brainer for me 😉
You think you had it bad! I'm trying to adapt to the Advantage 2 keyboard AND learn to touch-type for the first time in my life...at the same time...and I'm about to turn 67. Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get anywhere. I keep looking at other keyboards, then I think, nah, I already paid so much for this one....
And I only practice for 30 minutes a day....
At least I gave up on learning Dvorak too. When I started, I was going to learn Dvorak, touch-typing, and the KA2 all at once. I got up to 20 WPM before I threw in the towel.
I think I have a tendency to bite off more than I can chew.
I wonder whether or not adding a very thin layer of textured transparent paint or glue to the top of some of the keys would help the brain realize that fingers are about to hit the wrong key. Just an idea...
I have two Advantages; it looks like they removed the USB ports from the back. Both of my keyboards have the USB ports and they're great b/c I can a small light over the k/b for night typing. I LOVE that I can use the Dvorak layout and that I can program macros into the keyboard.
Thank you that was a very deep review. Also thank you for putting Yae or Nae at the beginning.
I was ready to throw it out the window for the first week. Still hated it in week 2. By week 4 I was back to my regular speed. Now I'm faster on this keyboard than I've ever been. Primarily because I ONLY touch type and that is just faster. No more bad habits!
Great video! I got the 360 recently and stumbled across this video -- I had the identical experience with my keyboard. Was nice seeing someone else with an honest review and great detail. Was curious if you gave the 360 a try? Keep it up!
Thank you for the honest review. I'm still with my Microsoft r4000 the granddaddy of all ergos. I remember having a try at one of these keyboards years ago and also looking at them again as I'm debating what to do with my 4000 keyboard as the wrists are fine but my fingers get sore from mashing on the keys after a while. Would be great if they had a place that would take your vintage keyboards and switch them to better switches, but I wonder if even that will help with the finger pain. Have a feeling that pads at the bottom of key travel may help some as I think the abrupt stop at the end of typing a letter is what is making my fingers sore. Thanks again for the review. Oh kinesis two reasons not jumping, I like a padded rest and return off from my pinky not thumb. Although I think like you said after a month it just may be worth the switch. Thanks again.
My only complaints about the keyboard is:
1. it doesn't come in bamboo to make it more eco-friendly
2. it's not wirieless
3. it's expensive.
good work mate. Great review. High quality video & audio for a review (I expect nothing less from Allen of Coding Blocks)
Thanks Michael!
High quality audio? The first thing I noticed was a constant hiss. I was surprised given that he records for that podcast.
@@MarcusTheDorkus Yeah, I wasn't happy with how the audio turned out for this one. You don't win em' all...
Dude that was great, thorough, comprehensive review... only one major drawback you almost didn't show the keyboard, I expect at least around 50/50 but I got 90/10 (you/keyboard)
Thanks for the feedback - will definitely keep that in mind for future reviews.
THANK YOU for this awesome review!! Not only informative, but enjoyable!! I'll use your link and order this when I get back to my computer!!
Hi, very nice review, but what do you think about the F row keys? Are they nice? They certainly don't look being cherry mx. As a Visual Studio user myself, I use the F row a lot when debugging.
The F-keys are definitely not mechanical, but I don't find them problematic as a developer who also uses the F row a lot.
Does this keyboard support NKRO? Does it have a detachable cable? If it does what type cable is it?
If you get used to vim motions, you can use w & b to skip words instead of using crtl + arrow keys
A fixed position keyboard that is ergonomic... What? Explain the logic please, thanks!
I know it seems counter-intuitive - but for MOST people, the split and the the concave design of the keys is game changing. Better than absolutely every other keyboard I've tried to date. Now...would I love it if the split was a free split? Sure...but like I said, for most people this thing will just work.
What about the 10 key. I use 10 key a lot. Would this be worth it? I plan on ordering one this week :)
Thank you that was very useful and very relaxing
:-) Thank you
Which switch does this keyboard use? Is it mechanical or membrane?
Amazing video!
Amazing picture!
But man its bugging me how not straight it is :D
So...uh...what if you don't use your pinkies when you type?
I'd imagine if that's the only bad habit, you'd probably get along just fine with this keyboard...might actually be beneficial as the keys are closer together!
I'm using for 4 months now, I hitting 70wpm in average. But I'm still training hours per week SINCE I GOT IT
talking about comfort, it's definitely the best keyboard I ever had
I did the same thing. Starting using it all the time and did as much typing as I could. That plus not getting frustrated at the plethora of typos, rectifying any improper usages of keys right away, were things that made the adjustment to it and getting productive with the keyboard a lot faster. It really is a fantastic keyboard, no other keyboard has me using all my fingers so comfortably as the Kinesis Advantage does.
A Klingon on the screen made me snort laugh out loud! That was HILARIOUS! Hey, can we see it with the wrist pads installed?
Thanks Miss MB! I'll try and come back and get a short video up later with those on there.
Your nav remapping issue? Pls use VIM emulator in vs code. Way better
great review thank you. i am typing this on day one with the new keyboard hahaha. honestly it isn't as bad as what i thought it would be to relearn. i think aggressive typers struggle more, but since i am a careful typer, i only went from my usual 60+ wpm to 30wpm. my first tests were a12wpm, but i am still on day one and i have been getting above 30wpm now. and i am even having to relearn bad habits with left hand space bar, right hand B, and index finger C. all that to say if you are careful and patient as a typer, then the transition isn't as bad as i feared.
i just got 42 wpm twice! granted im doing it on easy so it only sends me periods, capital letters, commas, and words
That's just awesome! One thing I THINK may have helped me when I was getting used to the keyboard would have been to look down more - just to mentally. map the new layout rather than being stubborn and unwilling to look because "I've been typing for 20 years"! That's awesome to hear you're making great progress on day one!!!
@@AllenUnderwood i see you. yeah i think i did map it out which helped me. and i wasn't using any numbers on those typing tests which made it easier. thanks for the video! it seems to be helping my carpal tunnel/tendonitis out already so im excited.
Im from Belarus, and i hope, that someday i would use this awesome keybr :)
How are you when using a laptop keyboard now? Has using the Kinesis ruined your ability to use conventional keyboards?
For me going back and forth between the extreme ergonomic keyboards and laptops isn't an issue. That's probably because I do that switch every day. Usually at work I'll be on the ergo's, and when I sit down at night to browse the internet or do other things, I'm on my laptop. It really hasn't been an issue at all...I will occasionally find myself hitting a wrong key once before I realize I need to mentally switch back to the other. Otherwise, really no issue at all.
I don't know but the original Cherry MX Brown that comes with it is too heavy for me.
Then the MX Silent red are to get, but Kinesis is infamous for introducing the MX Brown - the most popular switch today, that is waaay light to me (I'm an MX Clear proponent)
Did you try the new 360? Would be cool to hear how you'd compare that to the advantage.
I’ve been using the Advantage 360 Pro since it came out in October 2022. I used the Advantage / Advantage Pro since about 2010. The general feel switching from the old Advantage to the 360 was generally pretty easy once I made some adjustments to the layout. The big differences being that Kinesis put the Escape key where Caps Lock would be on the older Advantage boards and needing to use the new Fn keys to access the function keys. The standard model 360 (not the “Pro” model) has a supposedly easier to use configuration similar to the older Advantage keyboards, but the Pro model uses ZMK and requires a little more work to make changes to the layout, e.g. cloning a GitHub repository and using GitHub’s workflows to build the firmware images. However, the Pro model also has a lot more flexibility in the configurations.
I really appreciate that the 360 has a built-in adjustable tenting mechanism, has separate halves that I can move and angle as I want, and has a solid build quality as I’ve come to expect from Kinesis. The 360 comes with Gateron Brown tactile switches, which are comparable to the Cherry Brown switches, although I think they may be just a touch lighter. I know many others would prefer linear or silent switches; I’m the odd one that would prefer Box Navy clicky switches. I’m not going to desolder my keyboard for them, though, and I didn’t want to wait for a custom keyboard from Upgrade Keyboards so browns it is.
I’ve read that many others have had issues with Bluetooth connectivity with their 360 Pro boards. I’ve not experienced that personally, but there are several factors that may play into that. First, I only have my 360 connected to one device. Some comments I’ve seen suggest that having multiple devices may cause issues with BT connectivity. Second, I’m using a “v1.0”-based firmware. I recently tried to update my firmware to be based off Kinesis’s “v3.0” branch, but when I installed the firmware on the keyboard it would not connect to the computer over Bluetooth. Reverting back to a v1.0 branch fixed that issue. This could easily have been user error, however, as I had a significant merge conflict that I may have resolved poorly and didn’t want to spend any more time trying to resolve. YMMV. When Kinesis called it a “Pro” model, they obviously meant that the user needs to have experience with editing code configurations and troubleshooting software issues.
awesome review! Ordering it right now..
Regarding the 6 key: I'm blind. Would you please describe where the 6 key is located?
So far, every ergo keyboard I've looked at has the 6 key on the left side. It drives me nuts! Does anyone have the 6 key on the right side of the split?
This has the 6 key on the right side of the split. I'm not sure why he didn't like it there. I'm pretty indifferent about its location myself.
@@dperrin Thanks for the information.
I learned how to touch-type when I was in high-school. That was before I was told about my eye condition. Of course, being able to touch-type is a really handy skill now that I can't see the keyboard.
Anyway, the point of my story is that when properly trained, one hits the 4 and 5 key with the left index finger. The 7 and 6 keys are hit with the right index finger. When I have to hunt for the 6 key, it's like having a piece of gravel in my shoe. It's not much but it's constantly irritating.
@@surferdude4487 I picked up on this keyboard surprisingly quick, but after watching a few other reviews I think it's because I could touch type properly/according to the book. I never really knew about the 4,5 and 6,7 keys though! I probably learned it in school, but primarily used a numpad and forgot about that.
If you can do that, I think you'll adjust to a keyboard like this fairly quickly. I've had mine for less than a week, but I was up to 70 wpm in the first day. I still make a few mistakes (parentheses, braces, and the +/= button), but overall I'm enjoying it.
@@dperrin The numpad? Us blind folks use that for navigating. The only time I turn the Numlock on is when I have to input a lot of numbers. Still, there's the "^" symbol. Sometimes I have to use that when programming or in math formulas on spreadsheets.
When I see a design decision made wrong, both Logitech and Microsoft made the same error, It makes me wonder if they have anyone that touch-types on the design team.
@Koh Flugilo That's a reasonable question. I did a lot of research on this subject since I posted the original comment. You are correct that the 6 key is physically closer to the left index finger on a real mechanical typewriter. Which hand you are trained to hit the 6 key with depends on where you learned to touch type. In Canada and USA, people are trained to use the right hand. In some European nations, they are trained to strike the 6 key with the left hand.
Microsoft has always put the 6 key on the left side of the split. The original Logitech ergo keyboard put the 6 key on the right side of the split. The newer Logitech K860 keyboard, however has moved the 6 key to the left side of the split. The K860 is otherwise an excellent keyboard for the money.
So, the answer to your question is, "It depends on where you learned how to type.".
thanks for the review CB! typing this on a kinesis 2 rn actually. i just wanted encouragement that it will all be worth it lol
Amazing video. Really down to earth with no sales pitch but still a deep appreciation of the product. I’m looking at one right now on eBay lol wish me luck and keep up the amazing work!😊
Did you end up putting the pads on? Did you find them comfortable to have on there?
I did put them on there. It does make a bit of a difference - I wouldn't say night and day because I didn't find the keyboard uncomfortable without the pads, but it is a little more cozy.
lol didn't expect travel to be reason to get it. thought that be the opposite.
I have one, and have a few issues. It is extremely bulky, I think the cursor keys often work much better in a triangular or diamond pattern since I often use these keys repetitively. And if they had just put the control key in the normal position would have been so nice for me. That is the thing that mostly irritating.
This is a best review of this keyboard. Well done! Thank you!
Hello, nice review thank u.
U can try use vim. It fits perfectly for this keyboard. And i3wm Window Manager in linux
Would be interested in how the different keyboards address the most relevant factors in ergonomic keyboards and which one covers the most / them the best - as that is what we buy them for:
* pronation and wrist pain (ulnar/carpal/cubital tunnel) > tented/angled
* shoulders > split
* fingers, tendons > type and setup of keys and switches (well-form, flat, ortholinear, mechanical etc)
* whatever I am forgetting
I like that - I may try and itemize that in my next review of the Moonlander...and after I'm done with all the crazy ergo reviews, I may do a wrap up of the extreme ergos and try to address these. Thanks for the feedback.
@@AllenUnderwood That would be great :) much appreciated!
Thank you for your honest review of the device. I might get one myself
FWIW - I still use this as my daily driver. It truly is a fantastic keyboard.
I've already got one - had a few false starts with it. I appreciate I need to put in some time but work gets in the way! You have persuaded me to have another go. Wish me luck!
Hey Allen. Amazing review video. Thanks for your time and effort for us!
Thank you! :-)
Haha, it _is_ portable. Proof: it was shipped to you ;-)
Very nice review and interesting thoughts about that keyboard.
@2:05 min in and you get a like & im aboutta act on impulse ✌🏼
Great insightful video! Watched the whole way through.
Thank you :-)
I'm surprised you didnt bring up how its like 7 feet tall and Id never be able to sit with my arms and legs proper.
So Allen, just over a year later, what is your daily driver? I'm on day two with this thing and am just happy I can type this out without prematurely hitting Enter. I am wondering if the Kinesis freestyle edge would give me 90% of the advantage without the brain revolt. What are your thoughts? I do see the Advantage2 forcing me to rid myself of some bad form\techniques.
But how good is it for
G A M I N G
I'm probably the wrong person to ask about that as I don't do much gaming on computers because it kills my wrists. That said, I see no reason why it wouldn't be great - for a couple reasons...the keyboard is very responsive and it's wired so I'd imagine there'd be very low latency. But again, I haven't really tried so maybe someone else out there can answer this better with some experience?
So I have terrible RA with some slightly warped fingers. This makes me wonder if this keyboard would help with pain relief or not. I do a lot of development, and prefer to use vim but do a lot in vscode as well, do a lot of note taking in obsidian, and write books using various word processors. Anyone have any feedback on RA and using a non conforming keyboard such as this? It is between this and moonlander for me at the moment. I am planning on getting the System 76 heavy first, as a standard option.
isolinear? iso linear?
great arguments, great review, thanks a lot :-D
My pleasure and thank you!
Ctrl + arrow to move words? Start using Vim/NeoVim and you will find out the next new efficient thing next to that keyboard. It will also probably take you about a month to really start having a nice workflow there (with a few plugins). Nice review
I have been using Kinesis Advantage (Dvorak Layout) since 2014. And as my keyboard is showing few signs of ageing, I am thinking of getting a replacement.
What should be the best option for me, considering am very comfortable with the Advantage Key Well design and Dvorak layout.
These are the 3 keyboards in my list.
1) Kenisis Advantage Pro (once its available)
2) Kenisis Advantage 2
3) Kenisis Freestyle Pro
Appreciate any suggestions.
Advantage 360 (Pro if you want more configurable programming and don’t mind flashing the firmware; otherwise stick with the base model that has on-board programming)
Very nice video, keep on going. Liked and subed
Thank you!
most in depth review I've seen.
Thank you!
I didn't have enough money to buy this beast, but I do have a soldering gun and access to a 3D printer so I made a dactyl manuform which is pretty much the same thing except split.
LOL thinking the same thing, de-solder my cherry red keyboard that I never use and make my own. :)
Would you do a review about moonlander?I like how customizable it is but I wonder if the kinesis curved keyboard is overall more comfortable to type.
Definitely. That's next up. I had actually planned to do the review over the past two weekends but I've been absolutely slammed with work. So....soon...it's coming very soon! And i do plan to do another separate review where I compare the three I've done so far - the Kinesis Advantage 2, the Moonlander, and the Zergotech.
@@AllenUnderwood thanks so much for the reply! Would be awesome to know what might be a better choice for smaller hands (mine are 17cm/6.7inch, way smaller than yours). Looking forward to it!
@@mfl9903 Excellent, will address that in the three comparison video!
@@mfl9903 I have similar-sized hands and tried my friend's moonlander. It felt too big for me. I felt like I had to constantly reach for everything that wasn't a home key (disclaimer, i only had it for a few days). If you have a way of trying it out I would do that before buying, esp since returns are gonna cost you around $40.
@@AllenUnderwood I also have concerns as a small-hand typer. How big are your wife's hands? Would she be open to providing some feedback on the comfortability of these keyboards?
I am contemplating buying this keyboard, and now I'm convinced. Thanks a lot!
Did u get it ?
Have you tried using colemak on thus?
Thanks for the great review.
Welcome! Thanks for watching
I appreciate this guy's humbleness..