I recently discovered Sharon and Tracey's podcast, and their RUclips channel. Let me say at the outset that I am a Bible-believing Christian. And I seek daily to follow the New Testament. Yet I must say that the last two decades or so have taught me quite well that blind faith is, well, blind - and not all that glitters is gold. I have seen how white American evangelicalism has been used, not to advance the Gospel, but to advance the secular earthly economic and political power of a certain tribe. I have experienced the suffering that comes with being in an abusive church. And I have seen how abusive mainstream American evangelicalism has proven itself to be. This is especially noteworthy to me as a person of color. I have seen how American evangelicals have embraced fascist oppressive political candidates in order to bolster their own social power - in order to Make Themselves Great Again by trashing the powerless. Yeah, I know - some will read my very brief summary of the sins of American evangelicalism and say things like "God is in control!" and "You're not speaking in love! Stop being bitter!" And to those people I say, yes indeed - God truly is in control. That does not alter the fact that the evidence is now indicating that many, many prominent evangelical leaders have majorly screwed up. And because you all refuse to take constructive criticism on board, you have begun to reap the consequences of your screw-ups. This also means that nothing gets fixed in American evangelical culture precisely because you refuse to take a good look at yourselves. As Otto Von Bismarck is supposed to have said, "Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." Let's have more podcasts like Sharon and Tracey's podcast. Let's interrogate the rot at the heart of present-day American evangelicalism. And let's see if the architects of American evangelicalism are willing to get their house in order - or even to admit that they have things that need fixing! If that means a re-examination of the life and legacy of Last Days Ministries, so be it.
I was somewhat aware of Keith Green. Heard of him via having attended a few 2nd Chapter of Acts concerts in the early 80's (they passed out information, encouraging people to sign up for the Last Days ministry newsletter). I remember being at my parents home, hearing on the radio about Keith Green dying in a plane crash.
I found this podcast enlightening actually... my former husband and I were 19 and 20 years old when a little home church we called cornerstone discovered LDM. In fact my former and I were seriously praying about going to Texas to be a part of the ministry. Things just didn't make sense about the crash.... I appreciate the frankness and honesty about the whole matter... my former could have easily been another like Keith, not talent wise, but manipulative to the point of bullying, for lack of a better term.... I lived it in my world, so I can totally see why you say the things you did about him... great podcast! Definitely subscribed!!! Thanks ladies, and may the families who all endured losses in this avoidable tragedy find peace today, and forevermore...🙏🕊
Thanks so much for stopping by and sharing your story! We actually had a couple join us at LDM -- not through our school -- and we about wrecked them. The husband was also 'similar to Keith' (but there was only room for one Keith) -- all others were run through the wringer to 'test' them to see how strong their commitment was to the work...even at the expense of their relationship. They soon left...so I am glad you avoided that whole ordeal. Really appreciate your comments and encouragement!
Thank you so much for listening! Appreciate the encouragement. This was a tough subject -- and glad you found the link. We are starting to upload the full episodes here now...
NTSB investigator Mr Wandell's report stated that they were only 200 lbs overweight. 4 inches CG too far back. Calculating the weight of the 8 children at the high end was approximately 400lbs. Adult weight was about 800lbs. Within capacity. Pilot was a top-notch Marine and an incredible athlete. High temperature that day was 98 degrees. STOL added significant weight carrying capacity. Not buying the narrative. I say sabotage. Keith just published the Catholic Chronicles, which signed his death warrant.
The Pilot was responsible but the plane was obviously overloaded. When flying learn about aviation, gravity sucks. 50 percent of plane crashes are pilot error.
I invite you to watch the series: "what's wrong with the gospel (1,2,3,4)" Because you say so many false things. Keith didn't think that he was a prophet, he made this clear and you can see this in the video he made about: "the man behind the message". It is clear how much you are trying to erase his testimony. But as he said in one of his videos: "You can say what ever you want about me, but what God says about me will be public and will be exposed." Thank God for keith, a man of God. Until now it continues to be a blessing to thousands of lives, and proving fruits of the spirit of Christ.
@@annunciataparchesi1832 Because it is quite obvious the effort of those who defame him make to say that he wanted to be a leader and create his own church. When it is very well documented by his own mouth and that of others who knew him, that he did not want to be the protagonist of anything. He made a lecture called "The Man Behind the Message" for God's sake... But good try in wanting to perpetuate defamation based on lies. As Gamaliel said: If this work is of men, it will stop. But if it's of God, you won't be able to stop it. Thank God that this it's clear to those who love the truth, like Keith. Just look at the fruits of the tree.
@@albertoriveraexjesuita If its the truth, it's not defamation. It doesn't matter what Keith said about himself. He is not the judge. But you have judged people by accusing them of lies and malice when you have no evidence of this. Do not idolize human beings.
Hi there. I appreciated your honest response -- and thank you for listening -- even though I know what we share is VERY difficult for many to hear who hold Keith in high esteem. That's actually the inspiration for the name of our podcast 'Feet of Clay' -- because it is really hard for people to imagine the ones they look up to can have so many human flaws and failings. We both were actually AT the teaching you reference -- and we both helped mail out the tract version of that teaching. The facts of the day of the plane crash have not been refuted by anyone who was close to him. He was a force to be reckoned with -- he could be reckless -- he could be domineering -- he could be demanding -- and he could be humble -- he could also be entitled -- but he was the head guy (the 'lead elder' -- the buck stopped with him) of a commune-ranch that he had built and regulated and dictated the rules and the requirements...and very LONG hours of work. He didn't just create his own church -- he created his own religious commune. We aren't trying to 'convert' any Keith fans -- just telling our stories as we experienced them...and sharing about the years of 'un-doing' some of the harmful indoctrination.
Thanks -- the fandom of Keith is very strong in many circles of evangelicalism....and many of his unhealthy relationship behaviors were excused as part of his 'gifting' and anointing. Melody did an injustice by reinforcing those notions in her book.
Hmmm, after listening to this; forgive me but the one lady seems bitter and almost like she was in love with Keith and angry that he left too soon. This was all kind of before me, but Im into his music and believe it is anointed. It points me to Christ. He is as a flawed human as we all our. The lyrics testify that he was aware of his pride and shortcomings. I hope you can find a way to forgive so that your bitterness subsides. Life is brief. Eternity matters. You are tough and brazen so Im sure you wont care what I perceive. The facts are interesting but certainly not surprising. The Lord was not surprised either and nothing happens without his permission. Its sad, but his music still blesses me.
@@57andstillkicking actually He taught that Adonai is the one true God, almighty. He is Lord of all. ALL. I only follow the Word. Not how I want it to be. He controls it ALL but allows freedom of will sometimes and sometimes He intervenes. His ways are not our ways. But your comment is a tangent off from what I was saying. This podcast or whatever it is; they act like it is shocking for us to think a Christian such as Keith Green was flawed. They seem to have been in love with him instead of the Lord and that’s where bitterness can sprout. I never worshipped Keith Green. I worship the Lord. Just my take. But I wanted them to realize and maybe find healing. I only accidentally heard the show because we were enjoying some of my favorite Keith Green music and my husband wanted to hear about the crash.
It is dishonest for you to leave out when Keith began to deeply understand God’s grace toward himself and toward others. Your turning from Jesus is the fruit of your bitter perspective. You are too obvious.
So where was the other pilot who was certified on this larger plane the day of the crash? Was he away or something? Just wondering why he wasn’t flying. Also, on the Last Days history page they say, though not giving names that John and Dede Smalley had promised their kids a plane ride once they got there. I am sure this “promise” put pressure to have this flight. Was this promise something Keith gave to the Smalley parents? Interesting how the LDM history page states the pilot was “ready” when they knew he wasn’t qualified to fly this plane. The wording there also seems to imply there was,only one pilot vs. two that you indicated LDM had.
I recently discovered Sharon and Tracey's podcast, and their RUclips channel. Let me say at the outset that I am a Bible-believing Christian. And I seek daily to follow the New Testament. Yet I must say that the last two decades or so have taught me quite well that blind faith is, well, blind - and not all that glitters is gold. I have seen how white American evangelicalism has been used, not to advance the Gospel, but to advance the secular earthly economic and political power of a certain tribe. I have experienced the suffering that comes with being in an abusive church. And I have seen how abusive mainstream American evangelicalism has proven itself to be. This is especially noteworthy to me as a person of color. I have seen how American evangelicals have embraced fascist oppressive political candidates in order to bolster their own social power - in order to Make Themselves Great Again by trashing the powerless. Yeah, I know - some will read my very brief summary of the sins of American evangelicalism and say things like "God is in control!" and "You're not speaking in love! Stop being bitter!" And to those people I say, yes indeed - God truly is in control. That does not alter the fact that the evidence is now indicating that many, many prominent evangelical leaders have majorly screwed up. And because you all refuse to take constructive criticism on board, you have begun to reap the consequences of your screw-ups. This also means that nothing gets fixed in American evangelical culture precisely because you refuse to take a good look at yourselves. As Otto Von Bismarck is supposed to have said, "Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." Let's have more podcasts like Sharon and Tracey's podcast. Let's interrogate the rot at the heart of present-day American evangelicalism. And let's see if the architects of American evangelicalism are willing to get their house in order - or even to admit that they have things that need fixing! If that means a re-examination of the life and legacy of Last Days Ministries, so be it.
As always, well done, ladies! Very well thought out, reserched, and presented!
I was somewhat aware of Keith Green. Heard of him via having attended a few 2nd Chapter of Acts concerts in the early 80's (they passed out information, encouraging people to sign up for the Last Days ministry newsletter). I remember being at my parents home, hearing on the radio about Keith Green dying in a plane crash.
I found this podcast enlightening actually... my former husband and I were 19 and 20 years old when a little home church we called cornerstone discovered LDM. In fact my former and I were seriously praying about going to Texas to be a part of the ministry. Things just didn't make sense about the crash.... I appreciate the frankness and honesty about the whole matter... my former could have easily been another like Keith, not talent wise, but manipulative to the point of bullying, for lack of a better term.... I lived it in my world, so I can totally see why you say the things you did about him... great podcast! Definitely subscribed!!! Thanks ladies, and may the families who all endured losses in this avoidable tragedy find peace today, and forevermore...🙏🕊
Thanks so much for stopping by and sharing your story! We actually had a couple join us at LDM -- not through our school -- and we about wrecked them. The husband was also 'similar to Keith' (but there was only room for one Keith) -- all others were run through the wringer to 'test' them to see how strong their commitment was to the work...even at the expense of their relationship. They soon left...so I am glad you avoided that whole ordeal. Really appreciate your comments and encouragement!
😊😊
Listened using Spotify link provided on your YT short.
Fantastic presentation.
Thank you so much for listening! Appreciate the encouragement. This was a tough subject -- and glad you found the link. We are starting to upload the full episodes here now...
NTSB investigator Mr Wandell's report stated that they were only 200 lbs overweight. 4 inches CG too far back. Calculating the weight of the 8 children at the high end was approximately 400lbs.
Adult weight was about 800lbs.
Within capacity.
Pilot was a top-notch Marine and an incredible athlete.
High temperature that day was 98 degrees.
STOL added significant weight carrying capacity.
Not buying the narrative.
I say sabotage.
Keith just published the Catholic Chronicles, which signed his death warrant.
I have a friend who was there when it happened.
Why no video of what happened?
Nobody was there filming it.
The Pilot was responsible but the plane was obviously overloaded.
When flying learn about aviation, gravity sucks. 50 percent of plane crashes are pilot error.
I invite you to watch the series: "what's wrong with the gospel (1,2,3,4)"
Because you say so many false things. Keith didn't think that he was a prophet, he made this clear and you can see this in the video he made about: "the man behind the message".
It is clear how much you are trying to erase his testimony. But as he said in one of his videos: "You can say what ever you want about me, but what God says about me will be public and will be exposed." Thank God for keith, a man of God. Until now it continues to be a blessing to thousands of lives, and proving fruits of the spirit of Christ.
Why do you think you know more about Keith than people who actually knew him?
@@annunciataparchesi1832 Because it is quite obvious the effort of those who defame him make to say that he wanted to be a leader and create his own church. When it is very well documented by his own mouth and that of others who knew him, that he did not want to be the protagonist of anything. He made a lecture called "The Man Behind the Message" for God's sake... But good try in wanting to perpetuate defamation based on lies.
As Gamaliel said: If this work is of men, it will stop. But if it's of God, you won't be able to stop it.
Thank God that this it's clear to those who love the truth, like Keith. Just look at the fruits of the tree.
@@albertoriveraexjesuita If its the truth, it's not defamation. It doesn't matter what Keith said about himself. He is not the judge. But you have judged people by accusing them of lies and malice when you have no evidence of this. Do not idolize human beings.
Hi there. I appreciated your honest response -- and thank you for listening -- even though I know what we share is VERY difficult for many to hear who hold Keith in high esteem. That's actually the inspiration for the name of our podcast 'Feet of Clay' -- because it is really hard for people to imagine the ones they look up to can have so many human flaws and failings.
We both were actually AT the teaching you reference -- and we both helped mail out the tract version of that teaching. The facts of the day of the plane crash have not been refuted by anyone who was close to him.
He was a force to be reckoned with -- he could be reckless -- he could be domineering -- he could be demanding -- and he could be humble -- he could also be entitled -- but he was the head guy (the 'lead elder' -- the buck stopped with him) of a commune-ranch that he had built and regulated and dictated the rules and the requirements...and very LONG hours of work. He didn't just create his own church -- he created his own religious commune.
We aren't trying to 'convert' any Keith fans -- just telling our stories as we experienced them...and sharing about the years of 'un-doing' some of the harmful indoctrination.
Thanks -- the fandom of Keith is very strong in many circles of evangelicalism....and many of his unhealthy relationship behaviors were excused as part of his 'gifting' and anointing. Melody did an injustice by reinforcing those notions in her book.
i always assumed he was murdered for his stand against abortion
The country has gone straight down the toilet ever since...
I felt that he was killed also where did you hear about him being killed
from the troath to the mouth your sin can not be restrain.
Hmmm, after listening to this; forgive me but the one lady seems bitter and almost like she was in love with Keith and angry that he left too soon.
This was all kind of before me, but Im into his music and believe it is anointed. It points me to Christ. He is as a flawed human as we all our. The lyrics testify that he was aware of his pride and shortcomings.
I hope you can find a way to forgive so that your bitterness subsides.
Life is brief. Eternity matters. You are tough and brazen so Im sure you wont care what I perceive.
The facts are interesting but certainly not surprising.
The Lord was not surprised either and nothing happens without his permission. Its sad, but his music still blesses me.
Plenty of things happen without God’s permission. When Jesus was here healing people, He never taught that people were sick by God’s permission.
@@57andstillkicking actually He taught that Adonai is the one true God, almighty. He is Lord of all. ALL. I only follow the Word. Not how I want it to be. He controls it ALL but allows freedom of will sometimes and sometimes He intervenes. His ways are not our ways. But your comment is a tangent off from what I was saying. This podcast or whatever it is; they act like it is shocking for us to think a Christian such as Keith Green was flawed. They seem to have been in love with him instead of the Lord and that’s where bitterness can sprout. I never worshipped Keith Green. I worship the Lord. Just my take. But I wanted them to realize and maybe find healing. I only accidentally heard the show because we were enjoying some of my favorite Keith Green music and my husband wanted to hear about the crash.
It is dishonest for you to leave out when Keith began to deeply understand God’s grace toward himself and toward others. Your turning from Jesus is the fruit of your bitter perspective. You are too obvious.
So where was the other pilot who was certified on this larger plane the day of the crash? Was he away or something? Just wondering why he wasn’t flying.
Also, on the Last Days history page they say, though not giving names that John and Dede Smalley had promised their kids a plane ride once they got there. I am sure this “promise” put pressure to have this flight. Was this promise something Keith gave to the Smalley parents?
Interesting how the LDM history page states the pilot was “ready” when they knew he wasn’t qualified to fly this plane. The wording there also seems to imply there was,only one pilot vs. two that you indicated LDM had.