Producer says “This is a niche product and flooding or starving the market will kill it. A balance is needed”. Every RUclipsr “Is ThIs ThE EnD Of Hd2D??!!!!” 🙄
If it got remade, it'll be over priced and leave out tons and details. Oh and also it'll be censored. I don't want them to "remake" anything from back in the day. Give everyone a one to one true port of the games and market the games at reasonable prices.
I mean.. they’ve been adamantly resistant to even modernizing their rigid turn-based battle system even 30 years later. They still market to 8 year olds (who largely play Roblox and Fortnite nowadays). Their designs are generally getting worse and worse by the generation. The heads at TPC and GF are too stubborn sadly. It’s their way or the highway. Imagine the possibilities if SquareEnix buys GF or TPC 😅.
@ It honestly makes me so mad to think about all of the masterpieces we’re missing out on. Just because GameFreak and Nintendo love putting out the bare minimum.
Idk. The quote seems to be him pretty explicitly saying we don't want to oversaturate the market not that they don't want to release more titles. They've already announced the remakes of DQ1&2 for instance.
@@filthiman yeah that would be perfect, I’ve never gotten a chance to try Soul Blazer or Illusion of Gaia myself either, that whole trilogy reintroduced with HD-2D would be the bomb
Hey man, I see that great minds think alike! Glad that me and you are on the same page about this kind of thing, and yeah, I also would LOVE to see Final Fantasy 6 remade in an HD2D style! Good show man!
He's 100% correct, those HD2D games will eventually became nothing special if the market get saturated with them. Something regarded as unique will turn into being perceived as generic and low effort
I agree that they shouldn’t over saturate the market. I just hope they don’t abandon the art style all together. I desperately need Chrono Trigger to be remastered like this.
I think HD-2D (return to Pixel) has a place as much as cel-shaded anime stylized graphics and hyper realism AAA fidelity graphics As it’s a style, and as you mentioned lots of games play around it, like Star Ocean The Second Story R, among other indies like the upcoming Threads of Time. Sure it may be nostalgiac, but I also see it as having an identity, and I don’t think HD-2D is dying anytime soon as majority of Square’s ones have got critical acclaim and some generated a profit (even surpassing their expectations) as those games don’t cost as much as say a big AAA game, so their ROI for those HD-2D games being selling in the millions like OT1-2, TS and potentially DQ3 HD-2D as early sales are really strong. Do help the company and give Team Asano a new reputation outside of just Bravely Default and old FF3-4 3D Remakes.
Well said!!! It's good for everyone. Not as cost heavy as AAA fully 3D games and can help net some more cash to help develop more stuff. It's a win win. The games just have to be good though!
DQ3 has already sold well over a million copies in Japan in less than 2 weeks at full price, despite Square Enix underplanning physical production (all the stores are empty of the Switch version, could have sold 100k's more...). It's a great game with a beautiful visual style update, and Japanese gamers are eating it up. If by "full-price" you mean the equivalent of $50-60 USD, then the answer is yes you can do that if it's the right games and you release them neither too often nor too seldom. Live-A-Live was also a success at full price.
You've made an excellent point about an HD 2D remake of Pokemon: I haven't played this game series in years, but this could allow for better use of resources to address the performance issues found in the last two generations. This will also allow for better storytelling because you aren't putting all of the resources towards graphics and gimmicks. If any generation needs a back to basics kind of demake it's Pokemon
I don't mind the classics in their original form. Early 3D definitely benefits from increased internal resolution but that's simple to do in any emulator these days.
That quote was pretty clear: There are a lot of DQ games, and if you dropped them all on the market in this new style at once (as opposed to a cheaper remake anthology style like the FF Pixel Remasters) you'd be spending a ton of money and bombarding people with way too many DQ games. I don't think that style is going anywhere. Dragon Quest games are very, very similar. That is one thing fans like about them. Octopath II was not that similar to even Octopath I. Live A Live was super different from both those games. I think that quote was just misunderstood.
Did anyone say this? It is so melodramatic! He simply said that it has to have some spacing between them. You literally quoted him saying that it can't take too long between releases either...
I mean his quote is pretty self explanatory, they don't want to release to many HD-2D games in rapid succession to not make the players burned out of this style of games, simple as that.
One Hd-2D game a year is a good goal, as long as the games are varied. You avoid cannobilzing sales of other games and will keep a section of the base satiated.
HD2D seems like branding for higher resolution PSX-style graphics from games like Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics, Dragon Warrior 7, and Suikoden 1/2 where pixel sprites are placed on rendered and/or 3D backgrounds. Yeah, the Xenogears/Monolithsoft devs (Tetsuya Takahashi, Kunihiko Tanaka, and Yasuyuki Honne) pioneered the earlier versions of this - coincidentally, they also worked on Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger, which visually inspire the modern "HD2D" games.
Trivia: Live A Live was done by Takashi Tokita, the head writer and head designer of Final Fantasy 4, Parasite Eve, and one of the head writer-designers (along with Masato Kato) of Chrono Trigger.
Imagine if someone said "I don't want people to get sick of polygonal games"... Dude hd2d is a artistic style just like cell shading. It's (hd2d) a beautiful style and I personally would be happy with them in abundance.
The reason is simple, most of the players of these titles are nostalgia fueled dads who don't have too much time in their hands and can play a couple of games a year at most. I can relate. If they release too many, people won't buy all of them.
There is nothing in this video that makes me think HD-2d is dying. Just concern that like any other genre of games whether it is open world or Overwatch style games too much in the market place at one time means less market available for each title. There will always be a market for some HD-2d games. Indie RPGs like Chained Echoes and Sea of Stars or the upcoming Threads of Time are easier to make for small teams and their art style isn't really going to age like that of higher fidelity games.
I'm ok with it going on the backburner, but only after we get: Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, FF Tactics, FF6, and one completely original JRPG with mature/political storyline, a cohesive set of characters, and a proper overworld map.
The HD 2D look makes you want to give it a try, but imo the gameplay still needs to be good. For me Star Ocean Second Story R is a good example where I tried it because of the look, but stayed for the gameplay. Imo some of the lazy remakes are missing the gameplay refresh and you leave with a feeling that you were tricked into playing it.
The quote sounds like they are just struggling to balance ambition with market saturation, atleast by having that conversaion it implies they have more projects planned. I like the idea of HD-2D games bridging the long gaps between new numbered entries. But, they really need to reevaluate pricing. If they dropped one every 12-18 months at the £30 $35 mark its likely to generate more interest and momentum for the series. Releasing at the 60+ price bracket is absurd and will 100% contribute to the 'saturation' they are worried about. DQ5 hd2d and a PS2 classics version of DQ8 on PS5 is what I'd really get my wallet out for. The art style of 8 makes it timeless imo, just up the render resolution to 2160p and send it on its way, no additional changes are needed.
Fantastic video, dude. Nice to hear your thoughts on this. I think this style isn't going away soon, which I'm happy about and I agree that a FFVI Remake should be done in this style. If they ever announce this I will lose my mind
Well, that quote is pretty telling, it just means they don't know what the release cadence should be yet, Octopath Traveler July 2018 Triangle Strategy March 2022 Live A Live April 2023 Octopath Traveler 2 February 2023 Dragon Quest 3 HD-2D Remake November 2024 So, it's about once per year, for the last four years.
Bonus HD 2D Game from other developers, Star Ocean The Second Story R was developed with Gem Drops and co-developed and then later published by Square Enix 2023
I’m a little torn when it comes to HD-2D. I like it and I want it to continue, but I think there’s a danger in it becoming a default approach that limits exploration of new aesthetics. What might some of these games look like hand drawn for example? Or with PS1 level pixel art (Mega Man X4 for example) combined with modern effects. At the same time, some of these remakes probably wouldn’t happen without the cost-saving benefits of an established engine, so I definitely support it being used for those.
Personally, I don't think there's anything to worry about with HD2D remakes. Nintendo and its relentless hold over its software is the perfect example of why. They, along with other developers, know exactly what they are doing - and they KNOW there is a market for re-making/re-releasing older titles for gamers. Nintendo keeps most of those titles locked behind their subscription service, and hound anyone who creates emulators/emulation of prized titles because they know gamers what them - they want to drive people to their subscription service. Each time you release an HD2D remake of a game, you take someone away from that subscription service. This quote from the producer of Dragon Quest's latest is simply acknowledging all of this working in real time. They are cautious about flooding the market... because it'll take away from the subscription model (which our current generation is stuck in). We won't see HD2D disappear, it will only be used to drip out certain titles though and it will take some time.
My problem is everyone wanting only HD-2D, theres so many visual style you can make. Where are pre-rendered backgrounds? 2D characters with fully 3D world (with free camera)? Just to mention a few
I don't understand the confusion here. The market likes these high quality HD-2D remakes & games, but if Square Enix were to saturate the market with HD-2D games, especially remakes like every old FF, DQ, etc (which some online acquaintances of mine are demanding) ... interest would wane, sales for each game would shrink, and eventually they wouldn't make money on the releases. SE want to keep it special, release a great game in HD-2D every year or two, and continue their varied game output. At 10:11 you say "There's nothing wrong with too many of these games coming out", but that ignores the market realities that Hayasaka mentions in his quote, when he implies that SE executives are thinking carefully about how to choose and pace these releases. The fact that YOU and a few people want as many HD-2D releases as they can make doesn't mean that the market would support those releases. If I personally were to get every retro-flavored game I want developed and released in the next 3 years, those Japanese videogame companies would go out of business ... because my taste in games doesn't equate to dozens of million sellers like DQ3.
DQ3 HD-2D is doing quite well and if we want more games like that we need to support them. This could lead to FF6 and maybe even Chrono Trigger HD-2D remake.
"I love these HD-2D games and I personally can't get enough of them." -- I love them, too. .. Such an odd, odd answer to give by SE concerning this style choice of game. So odd. People show that they love it and their answer is to pull back and make less of them.
I wish there was an option to enable character animations that can be seen during battles. I understand how to OG games didn’t either because at the end of the day, the game is about grinding. It’s very very good at it. 😂
They aren't going to stop making them, but they may want to slow down and try out varieties. And if anything, they would like to see more original games in the style preferably or make a spiritual successor in 4K2D. And I personally would like to see Chrono Trigger style sprites in said resolution. But it doesn't have to be we see a new HD2D or later 4K2D every year, but every couple of years too.
I don't know what to make of this because Square Enix has had like a long string of some super big bombs like Babylon's Fall, Balan Wonderworld, Forspoken, etc. that have sort of caught up to them just this year that they are very gun shy on everything I bet. Like FFVII Rebirth had to sell unreal amount of games to cover the losses on all those AAA bombs, and there just isn't close to that many PS5 consoles sold compared to PS4. They probably also learned an annuallized release schedule of the HD-2D stuff probably isnt guaranteed safe bet either, but i think it is better than like doubling down on Foamstars. Hey remember that came out this year?
Yeah a lot of Square's decision making has been a bit tone deaf. Like who asked for Foamstars? Such a blatant Splatoon copy. I get that you need to take chances but some of their choices are just plain weird. If they focus on some of these style games (HD-2D), surely they're cheaper to develop and have a high chance of return. Play it smart by doing those I say.
It makes sense to have HD2D alongside AAA. The former being a cheaper way to develop a game and the latter used for vast sprawling ones. You can innovate ideas with HD2D and then develop them with larger budgets. Not everything has to be a tentpole title too big to fail. I don't see a "saturation" point. It might help SquareEnix rekindle the innovation of the early PS1 era. Haven't used ”nostalgia” as a reasoning at all, more like, makes business sense?
I'll be honest, and I don't know if this take is hot or not but, having no battle animations in DQIII HD-2D 'Remake' and selling it for $60 is a far bigger problem than oversaturating the market. He did the bare minimum and is now expressing concern about the future of HD-2D.
See for me 3d action RPGs had gotten derivative. When hd-2d came about, bringing back the look that I grew up loving. I now sit on the other side and believe that both can live together. Play what you like 💚. So yeah bring on more hd-2d games. I’d even like to see other genre of games try their hand at using this style. I think we could get some really creative platformers for instance. Now maybe it has already been done. If so then educate me lol
Really, it's Live A Live that threw me off. For me, HD 2D is the perfect way to re-make or re-release iconic titles... the ones that defined the JRPG genre. Dragon Quest I-III is the perfect fit. Chrono Trigger is something that would benefit greatly. Aside from that, it can be used sparingly. I don't need the Final Fantasy games in this style, as Pixel Remaster sufficiently scratches that itch. But I would love to see Xenogears cleaned up and put in this style.
We at least need Dragon Quest VII, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy Tactics, Chrono Trigger, and Xenogears in HD-2D. Then, Bahamut Lagoon, Dragon Quest IV, V, & VI, and Final Fantasy IV & V would be cool too but if NOTHING else Tactics and Chrono Trigger NEED to be done.
It's the pixel art like the enemy sprites that I appreciate about DQ and Octopath. I'm already tired of everything being smeared in bloom and depth of field and some stock particle effects.
Really hope they keep em coming. I have pretty much loved em all. Nearly finished DQ3 remake now and its another absolute banger. Great game. Timelessly beautiful. I actually think they are doing a great job releasing HD2D games with their own unique look. I mean octopath, dragon quest 3 remake and triangle strategy are all HD2D but all look quite different too. There can be variety and style that seperates one HD2D style from another which has already been clearly shown. Bring em on I say. Loving em.
I really dig HD-2D in games like Octopath, Triangle, and dang Star Ocean R looks suuuper pretty... but the Dragon Quest HD-2D implementation feels more generic / less impressive graphically than the other games I mentioned 😢
I can see what you mean. I really enjoyed it for what it was worth but Star Ocean last year was by far the more gorgeous HD-2D game yet. Really set the bar high for that style!
@@ErekLadd Yeah, I'm sure Dragon Quest is fun! I don't think it being derivative is as much a of a problem as it feeling like a step backwards graphically, especially given that it came out after Octopath by the same publisher. But yeah, I'm sure it's still a great game
HD2D is not going anywhere anytime soon. Even if Square stops there will be others to adapt the style like the indie scene such as Eiyuden Chronicle or the upcoming Threads of Time. I could be wrong but I think Square meant in terms of HD2D remakes of trying to balance things out. Tbh it seems only Octopath is the only game that got HD2D right. Nice sprites and backgrounds that look like sprites too.
I hope so, I grew up with this style of graphics and I'm not saying every game has to be a masterpiece but it's almost 2025 why are games reverting back to old already done graphic style it seems like taking a step backwards to me.
I love HD2D, especially Octopath Traveler 2, I hope they continue to be made but even though I love remakes of old RPGs I think they might end up saturating the market (DQ, FF..), when I really want new games like OT & TS.
Title is clickbait, basically the quote is questioning optimal release times to ensure the hd 2d games sell well. The reason being thatbthese devs think the market is limited in popularity, so they want to time the releases of their many many hd 2d remakes in a way that enables the consumer to buy the next one comfortably. There is 0 mention of them not making more. In fact with the recent DQ 3 HD 2D Remakes huge popularity, they will likely makes heaps more, but as the quote suggested they wont spam us with them, just release them at set intervals.
HD2D is absolutely continuing Dragon quest hd 2D surpassed square enix expectations by a country mile There’s also DQ1 and 2 being remade in that style You’re not paying attention to sales data if you think the style is done
Depending on how you define this style I think it gets used in open world RPGs and Shooters too like Hexen-style games or Daggerfall/System Shock type games.
Maybe we will never know but Ff7 remake would have been more profitable as an Hd 2d game and better. Would have sold a ton on the switch and some on Sony
E se Final Fantasy VI fosse refeito como um jogo de AÇÃO HD-2D em vez de um RPG? What if Final Fantasy VI was remade as an HD-2D ACTION game instead of an RPG?
Okay what’s the verdict on Triangle Strategy? I was HYPED to see that come out, but then I saw that there’s really not that much battling in it compared to FFT. Is that the case?
I absolutely loved it! Lots of tactics action in that game. If you haven't played it - it's a must play in my book. I played it through twice to get the best ending. Couldn't recommend a game more tbh.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Producer says “This is a niche product and flooding or starving the market will kill it. A balance is needed”. Every RUclipsr “Is ThIs ThE EnD Of Hd2D??!!!!” 🙄
Hd 2d is the ultimate nostalgia kick... I hope they continue with at least FF Tactics
Totally agree! I was hoping the FF tactics remake/remaster rumor would come true, but I bet it will happen as soon as I finish the game 🤣
I want a similar thing like this for Xenogears
Chrono Trigger is needed
I really don’t want to see the style go away and agree it was a very neutral answer. I just need Chrono Trigger HD2D need a way to play that game!
If I squint at chrono trigger, some parts really feel like hd2d
If it got remade, it'll be over priced and leave out tons and details. Oh and also it'll be censored. I don't want them to "remake" anything from back in the day. Give everyone a one to one true port of the games and market the games at reasonable prices.
@@ChronicSenseidude this isn’t Twitter, just let him have a dream
Can on the steam deck dude, plays like a dream
@@8bitsniper568 I'm being more than fair and realistic. It's how the industry is.
The fact that we'll be getting HD-2D remakes of Dragon Quest 1 & 2 next year tells me this style is definitely sticking around for a while
Yeah I agree with you. The more the better!
I'm still hoping for Chrono Trigger!
Pokémon games would THRIVE by using this beautiful art style!
Theyre more interesting in making baby level pokemon games with zero difficultly
@ I know, I hate what the Pokemon series has become….
If Sony owns the IP who even knows how great the series would be right now.
@@yogaflame7884 Unfortunately you are correct :(
I mean.. they’ve been adamantly resistant to even modernizing their rigid turn-based battle system even 30 years later. They still market to 8 year olds (who largely play Roblox and Fortnite nowadays). Their designs are generally getting worse and worse by the generation. The heads at TPC and GF are too stubborn sadly. It’s their way or the highway. Imagine the possibilities if SquareEnix buys GF or TPC 😅.
@ It honestly makes me so mad to think about all of the masterpieces we’re missing out on. Just because GameFreak and Nintendo love putting out the bare minimum.
Idk. The quote seems to be him pretty explicitly saying we don't want to oversaturate the market not that they don't want to release more titles. They've already announced the remakes of DQ1&2 for instance.
Live-A-Live gave me so much hope that HD-2D would give more games that were unreleased outside of Japan spotlight: Terranigma in HD-2D is the dream
Yes!!!! Shoutout to Terranigma. That mode 7 scrolling on the world map would look INSANE in HD-2D!
the soul trilogy redone would be great
@@filthiman yeah that would be perfect, I’ve never gotten a chance to try Soul Blazer or Illusion of Gaia myself either, that whole trilogy reintroduced with HD-2D would be the bomb
Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 1-6 (especially 6) would tickle the chemicals in my brain in the best ways.
Hey man, I see that great minds think alike! Glad that me and you are on the same page about this kind of thing, and yeah, I also would LOVE to see Final Fantasy 6 remade in an HD2D style! Good show man!
Thanks David!! Yes for sure. Hoping to see more older Final Fantasy HD-2D. DQII HD-2D really has me wanting it to happen!
Same!!!
HD2D looks like how I remembered games looking in the 90s.
I would love to see Vagrant Story get this kind of remake.
He's 100% correct, those HD2D games will eventually became nothing special if the market get saturated with them. Something regarded as unique will turn into being perceived as generic and low effort
I agree that they shouldn’t over saturate the market. I just hope they don’t abandon the art style all together. I desperately need Chrono Trigger to be remastered like this.
You and me both! Surprised it hasn't happened yet.
Chrono Trigger is already basically pixel perfection. I don't think it needs a remake at all!
@@stevenedwards8353 you can say that so true , but you know you would buy if they did. i would
I think HD-2D (return to Pixel) has a place as much as cel-shaded anime stylized graphics and hyper realism AAA fidelity graphics
As it’s a style, and as you mentioned lots of games play around it, like Star Ocean The Second Story R, among other indies like the upcoming Threads of Time.
Sure it may be nostalgiac, but I also see it as having an identity, and I don’t think HD-2D is dying anytime soon as majority of Square’s ones have got critical acclaim and some generated a profit (even surpassing their expectations) as those games don’t cost as much as say a big AAA game, so their ROI for those HD-2D games being selling in the millions like OT1-2, TS and potentially DQ3 HD-2D as early sales are really strong. Do help the company and give Team Asano a new reputation outside of just Bravely Default and old FF3-4 3D Remakes.
Well said!!! It's good for everyone. Not as cost heavy as AAA fully 3D games and can help net some more cash to help develop more stuff. It's a win win. The games just have to be good though!
The answer is: No.
There, i save you guys 11 - 12mins of your day.
I like the HD-2D, but you can't sell a 30 old game for full price in 2024.
DQ3 has already sold well over a million copies in Japan in less than 2 weeks at full price, despite Square Enix underplanning physical production (all the stores are empty of the Switch version, could have sold 100k's more...). It's a great game with a beautiful visual style update, and Japanese gamers are eating it up.
If by "full-price" you mean the equivalent of $50-60 USD, then the answer is yes you can do that if it's the right games and you release them neither too often nor too seldom. Live-A-Live was also a success at full price.
@ Glad it's doing well! Japan loves their DQ. I hope for FF6 next...
Live a live also never came to the west so for "us" its pretty much new heard it was good too @sonicmania9993
You've made an excellent point about an HD 2D remake of Pokemon: I haven't played this game series in years, but this could allow for better use of resources to address the performance issues found in the last two generations. This will also allow for better storytelling because you aren't putting all of the resources towards graphics and gimmicks. If any generation needs a back to basics kind of demake it's Pokemon
I'm hoping they do this style with black and white and combine both games into one package.
There are soo many good romhacks for pokemon remakes. Id suggest you try someout
Pokemon as a series needs a huge shakeup. I burned out hard when the Diamond/Pearl remakes came out and have really been sour on every entry since.
Pokemon Let's Go, Pikachu!/Eevee! is sort of a HD-2D remaster, no?
@@newwest010 no that game is full 3d. Where are you getting the idea that it's hd 2d
I don't mind the classics in their original form. Early 3D definitely benefits from increased internal resolution but that's simple to do in any emulator these days.
For sure. That's one big reason why I still try to play those older games on a CRT. It's just the best way to experience them!
I never thought of pokemon games. Imagine if the pokemon black and white remake is HD-2D, I would cry of hapiness.
You and me both!
That quote was pretty clear: There are a lot of DQ games, and if you dropped them all on the market in this new style at once (as opposed to a cheaper remake anthology style like the FF Pixel Remasters) you'd be spending a ton of money and bombarding people with way too many DQ games.
I don't think that style is going anywhere. Dragon Quest games are very, very similar. That is one thing fans like about them. Octopath II was not that similar to even Octopath I. Live A Live was super different from both those games. I think that quote was just misunderstood.
Did anyone say this? It is so melodramatic! He simply said that it has to have some spacing between them. You literally quoted him saying that it can't take too long between releases either...
I mean his quote is pretty self explanatory, they don't want to release to many HD-2D games in rapid succession to not make the players burned out of this style of games, simple as that.
One Hd-2D game a year is a good goal, as long as the games are varied. You avoid cannobilzing sales of other games and will keep a section of the base satiated.
HD2D seems like branding for higher resolution PSX-style graphics from games like Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics, Dragon Warrior 7, and Suikoden 1/2 where pixel sprites are placed on rendered and/or 3D backgrounds. Yeah, the Xenogears/Monolithsoft devs (Tetsuya Takahashi, Kunihiko Tanaka, and Yasuyuki Honne) pioneered the earlier versions of this - coincidentally, they also worked on Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger, which visually inspire the modern "HD2D" games.
Trivia: Live A Live was done by Takashi Tokita, the head writer and head designer of Final Fantasy 4, Parasite Eve, and one of the head writer-designers (along with Masato Kato) of Chrono Trigger.
Imagine if someone said "I don't want people to get sick of polygonal games"... Dude hd2d is a artistic style just like cell shading. It's (hd2d) a beautiful style and I personally would be happy with them in abundance.
DQ3 sold like 1M in its first week in Japan alone. No way they’re going to stop making these. They’re selling well.
Silly square. Just release non-HD2D games (e.g. remastering/remaking Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) in between HD2D games, problem solved.
Um, that's what they're doing.
That idea is ridiculous. Gamers will not get tired of HD2 remake of classics!
The reason is simple, most of the players of these titles are nostalgia fueled dads who don't have too much time in their hands and can play a couple of games a year at most. I can relate. If they release too many, people won't buy all of them.
There is nothing in this video that makes me think HD-2d is dying. Just concern that like any other genre of games whether it is open world or Overwatch style games too much in the market place at one time means less market available for each title. There will always be a market for some HD-2d games. Indie RPGs like Chained Echoes and Sea of Stars or the upcoming Threads of Time are easier to make for small teams and their art style isn't really going to age like that of higher fidelity games.
I'm ok with it going on the backburner, but only after we get: Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, FF Tactics, FF6, and one completely original JRPG with mature/political storyline, a cohesive set of characters, and a proper overworld map.
I definitely love the HD-2D aesthetic, and would personally love to see these kinds of remakes continue. Great discussion, Erek!
Thanks!!! Hoping it continues as well!
The HD 2D look makes you want to give it a try, but imo the gameplay still needs to be good. For me Star Ocean Second Story R is a good example where I tried it because of the look, but stayed for the gameplay. Imo some of the lazy remakes are missing the gameplay refresh and you leave with a feeling that you were tricked into playing it.
The quote sounds like they are just struggling to balance ambition with market saturation, atleast by having that conversaion it implies they have more projects planned.
I like the idea of HD-2D games bridging the long gaps between new numbered entries. But, they really need to reevaluate pricing. If they dropped one every 12-18 months at the £30 $35 mark its likely to generate more interest and momentum for the series. Releasing at the 60+ price bracket is absurd and will 100% contribute to the 'saturation' they are worried about.
DQ5 hd2d and a PS2 classics version of DQ8 on PS5 is what I'd really get my wallet out for. The art style of 8 makes it timeless imo, just up the render resolution to 2160p and send it on its way, no additional changes are needed.
Fantastic video, dude. Nice to hear your thoughts on this. I think this style isn't going away soon, which I'm happy about and I agree that a FFVI Remake should be done in this style. If they ever announce this I will lose my mind
Me too!!! I'll probably fall to my knees and cry in public hahaha
Well, that quote is pretty telling, it just means they don't know what the release cadence should be yet,
Octopath Traveler July 2018
Triangle Strategy March 2022
Live A Live April 2023
Octopath Traveler 2 February 2023
Dragon Quest 3 HD-2D Remake November 2024
So, it's about once per year, for the last four years.
Bonus HD 2D Game from other developers,
Star Ocean The Second Story R was developed with Gem Drops and co-developed and then later published by Square Enix 2023
What game is at 1:55?
That's Star Ocean The Second Story R!
If we can have a million souldborne games, we can have a million HD 2D games.
Funny Headline when all I wish for is remakes in HD-2D formats 😂
I’m a little torn when it comes to HD-2D. I like it and I want it to continue, but I think there’s a danger in it becoming a default approach that limits exploration of new aesthetics. What might some of these games look like hand drawn for example? Or with PS1 level pixel art (Mega Man X4 for example) combined with modern effects. At the same time, some of these remakes probably wouldn’t happen without the cost-saving benefits of an established engine, so I definitely support it being used for those.
Personally, I don't think there's anything to worry about with HD2D remakes. Nintendo and its relentless hold over its software is the perfect example of why. They, along with other developers, know exactly what they are doing - and they KNOW there is a market for re-making/re-releasing older titles for gamers. Nintendo keeps most of those titles locked behind their subscription service, and hound anyone who creates emulators/emulation of prized titles because they know gamers what them - they want to drive people to their subscription service. Each time you release an HD2D remake of a game, you take someone away from that subscription service. This quote from the producer of Dragon Quest's latest is simply acknowledging all of this working in real time. They are cautious about flooding the market... because it'll take away from the subscription model (which our current generation is stuck in). We won't see HD2D disappear, it will only be used to drip out certain titles though and it will take some time.
Honestly I see the style to be unique and a stand out compared to most modern titles
My problem is everyone wanting only HD-2D, theres so many visual style you can make. Where are pre-rendered backgrounds? 2D characters with fully 3D world (with free camera)? Just to mention a few
As a example Star Ocean second R barely is HD-2D, with can make things more interesting
I don't understand the confusion here. The market likes these high quality HD-2D remakes & games, but if Square Enix were to saturate the market with HD-2D games, especially remakes like every old FF, DQ, etc (which some online acquaintances of mine are demanding) ... interest would wane, sales for each game would shrink, and eventually they wouldn't make money on the releases. SE want to keep it special, release a great game in HD-2D every year or two, and continue their varied game output.
At 10:11 you say "There's nothing wrong with too many of these games coming out", but that ignores the market realities that Hayasaka mentions in his quote, when he implies that SE executives are thinking carefully about how to choose and pace these releases. The fact that YOU and a few people want as many HD-2D releases as they can make doesn't mean that the market would support those releases. If I personally were to get every retro-flavored game I want developed and released in the next 3 years, those Japanese videogame companies would go out of business ... because my taste in games doesn't equate to dozens of million sellers like DQ3.
DQ3 HD-2D is doing quite well and if we want more games like that we need to support them. This could lead to FF6 and maybe even Chrono Trigger HD-2D remake.
We need more games in the Star Ocean 2R style. I want to see more HD-2D games.
"I love these HD-2D games and I personally can't get enough of them." -- I love them, too. .. Such an odd, odd answer to give by SE concerning this style choice of game. So odd. People show that they love it and their answer is to pull back and make less of them.
Yeah Square doesn't make the best decisions put it that way! I love them but that's why I'll be critical. I want them to succeed!!
Pokemon Black/White and Crono Trigger would both go hard in a HD-2D remake
I think the quote means only what it says. Oversaturation is a concern and something they take seriously. No more. No less.
I wish there was an option to enable character animations that can be seen during battles.
I understand how to OG games didn’t either because at the end of the day, the game is about grinding. It’s very very good at it. 😂
I'm not super excited about a bunch of HD-2D remakes. I think they would be smart to make the next new installment in the Final Fantasy series HD-2D.
They aren't going to stop making them, but they may want to slow down and try out varieties. And if anything, they would like to see more original games in the style preferably or make a spiritual successor in 4K2D. And I personally would like to see Chrono Trigger style sprites in said resolution. But it doesn't have to be we see a new HD2D or later 4K2D every year, but every couple of years too.
I don't know what to make of this because Square Enix has had like a long string of some super big bombs like Babylon's Fall, Balan Wonderworld, Forspoken, etc. that have sort of caught up to them just this year that they are very gun shy on everything I bet. Like FFVII Rebirth had to sell unreal amount of games to cover the losses on all those AAA bombs, and there just isn't close to that many PS5 consoles sold compared to PS4. They probably also learned an annuallized release schedule of the HD-2D stuff probably isnt guaranteed safe bet either, but i think it is better than like doubling down on Foamstars. Hey remember that came out this year?
Yeah a lot of Square's decision making has been a bit tone deaf. Like who asked for Foamstars? Such a blatant Splatoon copy. I get that you need to take chances but some of their choices are just plain weird. If they focus on some of these style games (HD-2D), surely they're cheaper to develop and have a high chance of return. Play it smart by doing those I say.
Good god, no, they are the ones that constantly sell! We need more 2DHD!
It makes sense to have HD2D alongside AAA. The former being a cheaper way to develop a game and the latter used for vast sprawling ones. You can innovate ideas with HD2D and then develop them with larger budgets. Not everything has to be a tentpole title too big to fail. I don't see a "saturation" point. It might help SquareEnix rekindle the innovation of the early PS1 era. Haven't used ”nostalgia” as a reasoning at all, more like, makes business sense?
I'll be honest, and I don't know if this take is hot or not but, having no battle animations in DQIII HD-2D 'Remake' and selling it for $60 is a far bigger problem than oversaturating the market.
He did the bare minimum and is now expressing concern about the future of HD-2D.
See for me 3d action RPGs had gotten derivative. When hd-2d came about, bringing back the look that I grew up loving. I now sit on the other side and believe that both can live together. Play what you like 💚.
So yeah bring on more hd-2d games. I’d even like to see other genre of games try their hand at using this style. I think we could get some really creative platformers for instance. Now maybe it has already been done. If so then educate me lol
Modern gaming for these types of games doesn’t work like that. Any huge demand in something like this is likely to be filled by an indie developer.
I’m glad you didn’t hate on them. I only played a little OCTOPATH 2. It I think it looks way better on my lcd vs my oled. Battle animations just pop
Really, it's Live A Live that threw me off. For me, HD 2D is the perfect way to re-make or re-release iconic titles... the ones that defined the JRPG genre. Dragon Quest I-III is the perfect fit. Chrono Trigger is something that would benefit greatly. Aside from that, it can be used sparingly. I don't need the Final Fantasy games in this style, as Pixel Remaster sufficiently scratches that itch. But I would love to see Xenogears cleaned up and put in this style.
We at least need Dragon Quest VII, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy Tactics, Chrono Trigger, and Xenogears in HD-2D. Then, Bahamut Lagoon, Dragon Quest IV, V, & VI, and Final Fantasy IV & V would be cool too but if NOTHING else Tactics and Chrono Trigger NEED to be done.
Lufia 2... as for dq7, 8, can make those 2dhd or in style like dq11.
It's the pixel art like the enemy sprites that I appreciate about DQ and Octopath. I'm already tired of everything being smeared in bloom and depth of field and some stock particle effects.
I agree. That's why I liked DQIII - it's the most mild of the bunch in terms of bloom/depth of field or really lack thereof.
Really hope they keep em coming. I have pretty much loved em all. Nearly finished DQ3 remake now and its another absolute banger. Great game. Timelessly beautiful. I actually think they are doing a great job releasing HD2D games with their own unique look. I mean octopath, dragon quest 3 remake and triangle strategy are all HD2D but all look quite different too. There can be variety and style that seperates one HD2D style from another which has already been clearly shown. Bring em on I say. Loving em.
I really dig HD-2D in games like Octopath, Triangle, and dang Star Ocean R looks suuuper pretty... but the Dragon Quest HD-2D implementation feels more generic / less impressive graphically than the other games I mentioned 😢
I can see what you mean. I really enjoyed it for what it was worth but Star Ocean last year was by far the more gorgeous HD-2D game yet. Really set the bar high for that style!
@@ErekLadd Yeah, I'm sure Dragon Quest is fun! I don't think it being derivative is as much a of a problem as it feeling like a step backwards graphically, especially given that it came out after Octopath by the same publisher. But yeah, I'm sure it's still a great game
Nice radio voice. Makes me feel warm inside.
HD2D is not going anywhere anytime soon. Even if Square stops there will be others to adapt the style like the indie scene such as Eiyuden Chronicle or the upcoming Threads of Time. I could be wrong but I think Square meant in terms of HD2D remakes of trying to balance things out.
Tbh it seems only Octopath is the only game that got HD2D right. Nice sprites and backgrounds that look like sprites too.
Original early Pokémon gens should be HD 2D remastered.
I hope so, I grew up with this style of graphics and I'm not saying every game has to be a masterpiece but it's almost 2025 why are games reverting back to old already done graphic style it seems like taking a step backwards to me.
I love HD2D, especially Octopath Traveler 2, I hope they continue to be made but even though I love remakes of old RPGs I think they might end up saturating the market (DQ, FF..), when I really want new games like OT & TS.
Can we get Sega in on this trend? Maybe get some HD Shining Force or Phantasy Star?
Title is clickbait, basically the quote is questioning optimal release times to ensure the hd 2d games sell well. The reason being thatbthese devs think the market is limited in popularity, so they want to time the releases of their many many hd 2d remakes in a way that enables the consumer to buy the next one comfortably.
There is 0 mention of them not making more. In fact with the recent DQ 3 HD 2D Remakes huge popularity, they will likely makes heaps more, but as the quote suggested they wont spam us with them, just release them at set intervals.
Was really looking forward to a Chrono Trigger and FF Tactics HD 2D remake.
HD2D is absolutely continuing
Dragon quest hd 2D surpassed square enix expectations by a country mile
There’s also DQ1 and 2 being remade in that style
You’re not paying attention to sales data if you think the style is done
I'm completely with you, keep 'em coming. Although I'd be just as happy with straight ports of classic 2D games 😂
Seeing a snes Mario rpg like this would be cool.
Depending on how you define this style I think it gets used in open world RPGs and Shooters too like Hexen-style games or Daggerfall/System Shock type games.
HD-2D Xenogears please!
Couldn’t agree more!!
Maybe we will never know but Ff7 remake would have been more profitable as an Hd 2d game and better. Would have sold a ton on the switch and some on Sony
Great video! I love HD2D games and would love to see more of them!
Square Enix has had issues in the past of saturating the market and cannibalizing their own sales so I get it.
Also, if SE doesn't want to capture this market m, someone else will. SE needs to stay on top of this.
E se Final Fantasy VI fosse refeito como um jogo de AÇÃO HD-2D em vez de um RPG?
What if Final Fantasy VI was remade as an HD-2D ACTION game instead of an RPG?
Okay what’s the verdict on Triangle Strategy? I was HYPED to see that come out, but then I saw that there’s really not that much battling in it compared to FFT. Is that the case?
I absolutely loved it! Lots of tactics action in that game. If you haven't played it - it's a must play in my book. I played it through twice to get the best ending. Couldn't recommend a game more tbh.
I think triangle strategy is more like tactics ogre...
HD 2D Faxanadu and Legacy of the Wizard
Well if they do Hd2D and did some sequels id buy them
Why aren't there any straight up action games in this style?
More HD2D please. Octopath Traveller Three anyone?
I want all of the old rpgs to be hd2d on switch! I’ll buy them all
If ff6 is a hd2d and not a full remake we scrapping
Why would it be done when it did so well
Was paper Mario the first hd-2d??
Sea of Stars visuals are 🔥 as well.
Its not dead, its a cash cow. Devs will follow the momey.
we know they are making the 1 and 2 as hd 2d remake.
Having the market oversaturated with realistic looking games is soooo much better 😑 (sarcasm)
No, don't misconstrued what the producer said. He just doesn't wat to make too many hd 2d games too fast.
I buy every hd 2d remake game hopefully it continues
I think they should remake fff 1-6 like this
Theres only 5 HD2D games so far...