DEVS RESPOND to Abrams Controversy - Devblog - War Thunder
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Man those new thermals on Abrams must be 4 tons
I mean do you not see the ass load of shielding for urban combat on the top?
@@williewilson2250 just go read other comments ,I have laid out a detailed list of how it's literally impossible for the Abrams to get this heavy just simply based off of electronics and even the bigger gun only increase the weight by 460 pounds fully loaded, so ether the Abrams actually got more armor or the snail is just being a dick
@@Rono99 so then why was switching to fibre optic cables reducing the weight by 2 tons? You do realize how much wiring is in the Abrams right?
@@williewilson2250 ok sooo tell me what tf will make the m1 20k pounds more?
@@Rono99 why are you leaping from the base m1 to the SEPv2? Quite obvious why there's more weight just by looking at them
3:32 there’s an amended license by the NRC which lifts the limitation of 5 DU hulls and changes it to as needed. The restriction was put in place to study the radiation affects on the crew. Once deemed safe the restrictions were then lifted per request.
what's hilarious is that amendment license was the last post on the armor issue post gaijin used in their sources, they clearly didn't bother reading much and only cherry picked what they could to win their argument.
@@Nemesis_0311 Art of argument. Take what proves you right, call everything else bs, even if it is part of your own document.
@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 Even more hilarious, Gaijin's shills are coming out in droves to defend this pathetic garbage. Russia has over 10 modern MBTs with enough UFP armor to stop top tier darts. How did we allow it to get this bad? Well, turns out, too many consumers here are mentally handicapped.
That rebuttal of the russian source seemed particularly weak. There are many works (even doctoral ones in an academic setting) which get some small thing wrong but overall convey mostly accurate information. It would be nice to see what they got wrong to see whether denial of the source was warranted. Gaijin appears to be willing to give Russian vehicles the benefit of the doubt when it comes to challenges to their abilities- which is not a grace that they have ever extended to modern US vehicles.
The change to the reload was nice but I have my doubts that the US will retain that advantage in the long-term, whether it be in the form of a reversion to the former reload speed or increases to Russia's autoloading speed. It's been a while, but i think the Abrams already had the 5 second reload with Ace crews some time ago, but it eventually got nerfed.
"they're doing the best they can guys!!!" No, they really aren't.
Tec is a known snail sympathizer
Clear russian bias at play here, and i'm not even kidding, Been around since closed beta of this game, i have thousands of hours in this game, been active on the forums for years and reddit as well.
The amount of russian bias and moderators censoring anyone who is challenging this is astonishing, and if you don't see that or admit, at the end of the day, you're just gaijin puppet, sorry to say.
you immediately lost my interest in reading the rest of your post when you said you were active on the forums and reddit. Everyone with a brain cell knows Forum post are the nation crybabies complaining about other nations or that they think their nation is nerfed in someway
Literally the least experienced old player in War Thunder
@@gasparferrandisromero1075explain than how the devs can make changes to Russian vehicles based on practically no evidence, yet people have posted declassified documents on DU just for the devs to say they don’t accept it. Make it make sense
@@ragedarchmage6888 I'm sorry? Is reading the forums a bad thing, now? When people come up with game improvements or have criticized the game and with good reason, while calling out the mistakes that gaijin is actively making, presenting evidence and such, yet they ignore the playerbase and the forum mods outright censor and hide posts, give warnings and more. I'm not indulging in that anymore because it's a waste of time, but i've seen my fair share of dramas and censoring with little to no reason.
Furthermore, at the moment, russian devs are telling us why american tanks don't deserve increased armor and better rounds, lmao, if that's not russian bias, idk what is
@@ragedarchmage6888 Average Russian Bias User: “Using sources and keeping up with the current state of knowledge is bad, artificially buffing and giving Russia tech decades newer than everyone else good.”
no source confidently violating, likely a federal nda? what a surprise lol. But its safe to say it was added cuz lol extra weight on production tank. Tank didnt get bigger, more ammo, bigger gun....but it gained weight....yeah, the logical answer is, its an armor upgrade. Bam...now buff it lol
This is complete bullshit im so sick of gajin double standards. Great game but dont understand this.
yea its bs
What’s wrong with his beard?
Do your research European Canadian there is no doubt the m1a1 aim and the sep v1 and every Abrams after them have DU in the hull. Look up desert storm and you’ll clearly see that the USA quickly added DU hull armour to its tanks because they noted the hull as weak point. This is clearly noted in history it’s non disputable. Disliked the video because you fail to do your own research and just go off what gaijin says.
Gajin with Abrams: we need six primary and eight secondary sources with exact values and serial numbers of tanks with armor upgrades, if not at least eighty percent of the fleet then it cant be added.
Gajin with Russian vehicles: Oh 23s8 is supposed to have this undeveloped kill all round that hasn't been tested yet? Well add it in and lower the BR while you are at it.
and people will still somehow argue on the snails side saying russian bias isnt real and its just a meme 😒
@@chargemannyn2918fr, gayjin sucks balls
Gaijin seeing a windows paint fake document saying that the t90m have 180dg/s turret speed, 120-90km transmission and 2 secs autoloader: 🏃
This is why I main Russia as my only techtree
@@dsg4500 i mean dont hate the player hate the game lol
Gajin : dont leak any classified documents
also Gajin : we need sources on a very classified element
Call CIA.
The cia should investigate them. They seem to be doing this on purpose to get access to classified documents OR they are anti American which also deserves am investigation
I’m sorry, but there are at least 10 sources ALREADY ON THE THREAD showing that DU is present in the hull and that the armor protection increased. Saying there isn’t is just misinformation. We also already know the relative protection of DU compared to traditional armor, it being around 70-80% more (also already on the original spall liner thread). The suspension source from gaijin was also already debunked on the thread (the source itself contradicts what gaijin is trying to say about the suspension not being able to hold the weight of excess armor). Please revise this video as it will only make Gaijin’s completely unsubstantiated position appear stronger.
Declassified, export-unrestricted, publicly avaliable, primary sources proving the existence of DU in the hull of the production variant of the speciffic models of the tanks we have in the game?
Or just more "sources"
I know Abrams is 80tons combat ready that's around 15tons of missing armour
yea like the last 5 or so videos he has NO CLUE about what he is talking he only read the Gaijin response and goes with it he didnt even read the report otherwise he wouldnt talk such garbage
@@FrantisekPicifuk yes, there are at least 8 sources that are primary and about 10 secondary as of checking an hour ago
yeahh sure and santa is real too
I have a feeling that, with all this stuff with abrams armor, someone is gonna leak classified info related to its armor
Already did apparently 😂
@@Phantomenace1 really?
@@Geniy_B_Kvadrate_XD_ua I’m pretty sure Abrams armor values got leaked either yesterday or today
@@Phantomenace1 lol
@@Phantomenace1no they haven’t
This article is the equivalent of flat earthers trying to prove the earth shouldn’t be round. “It’s just not possible” they say “I don’t see a curve” they say.
Regardless of any of this nonsense, they have no problem adding vehicles that never got made in the first place. They have no issue giving specific vehicles armaments they never had for the sake of balance. Or exaggerating features like the protection of some ERA.
But for some reason when it comes to the abrams and some others OH now for some reason it HAS to be historical.
That’s the problem. It’s not that they don’t feel there are concrete sources.
It’s that they only care about concrete sources for certain vehicles.
That is why people cry about bias.
Gaijin might as well just say we will not buff NATO vehicles
someone's malding
also the strv and 2a7 being the best top tiers in the game @@LewisB3217
you probably just like the abrams so much you want it to be better
@@gigimilano6757 whataboutism about other strong nations or vehicles in game doesn’t mean the majority of nato vehicles don’t have glaring issues, from the abrams to the Merkava 🤥
no way classified vehicles are hard to balance, they will unevitably be not as good/bad as they are irl.
also some tanks do not work well in game as they are designed in other ways like the japs and italians, that doesn't mean gaijin prefers other nations, it's just impossibly hard to balance them iwthout making them op@@LewisB3217
Community: What's your source Gaijin? Gaijin: We made it the f'#k up
This or:
Gaijin: says some dumb sh*t
People: bring up 20-30 sources proving they’re saying dumb sh*t
Gaijin: bring up sources people have already proven to be wrong or outdated
People: show that their sources are wrong and outdated
Gaijin: Doesn’t respond in thread whatsoever
That’s what’s been going on right now
@@Iden_in_the_Rain and this is why people review bomb, we shouldn't have to do this to get their attention when we clearly just love the game and want things to be correct. we cant forgive the m1 kvt tragedy, cutting 15mm off my bois gun.
The problem with getting DU armour on the Abram's is that any primary source relating to it is very likely to be classified or hard to get hold of, which leads to a catch 22 that most sources are not going to be sufficient and any that are will likely be refused due to being classified.
This also makes me question what sources Gaijin is using for top tier tanks in general (I know a few are listed in the article), it would be nice if they released a list of the sources used (unless their is a list out there)
To be honest this a prime example of why I'm not a fan of modern tanks, as sources are for any modern tech is going to be extremely hard to get hold of, especially if we see even more modern production or prototype tanks, so I hope we see a return to earlier tanks which it will be easier to research.
Forget it, all nato tanks are nerfed to hell. Wrong armor, wrong shell penn and wrong accelleration. That was allways GJ´s way of balancing.
@@PeterJ1851 Dudes sleeping on the fact that the Leopard 2A7V and Strv 122B+ are the Kings of Top Tier.
@@PeterJ1851All I keep hearing is Russian bias. Meanwhile, the 2A7V is the best of its class. I don’t play Germany and even I am transparent with this fact.
@@pilotmanpaulwell yeah that’s cuz the have hull armor
@@NEWBERRYTECHmaybe so, but it’s just a slightly better PLSS. And Germany otherwise would be rocking the 2A6, 2A5, PSO or PL. Only one of those vehicles has anything resembling the same hull armor as the A7, and it’s not close, so you basically have one actual tank that can take rounds, then several glass cannons. Same can be said for Sweden, who got the good Leo’s early.
Russia is still better, as they have multiple tanks that are significantly more well armored and survivable compared to their NATO counterparts. That’s why people cry bias. Because despite getting something good, it’s still not nearly enough to handle the onslaught of BVMs, B3s, and now 90Ms.
Unsuprisingly, the Ariete has been in the same boat for as long as ive been a WT player. With players wanting composite armor in the hull. And i have seen many sources provided in which the companies responsible for designing it state quite clearly that the hull does in fact have the lastest in composite armor (at the time) along with the turret
And last time i checked air isnt the latest generation of this
Its not even just the Ariete, It seems like at least half the minor nations have something wrong with their top tier tank. Chally is a mess, Leclerc is a mess, Merkava is a mess, Ariete is a mess, The Leo2A7 while being fucking amazing is also just wrong. Why is it going to be any different for the Abrams. Why is the Abrams the hill we die on, its not any where near the worst top tier MBT.
@@DevinEMILE You forgot the Type 10 with no armor insert lmao
@@DevinEMILEbecause a lot of ppl have worked on the platform I think I personally work on the sep v3 platform now and I can simply say it’s wrong problem is there is 0 effort to even try to mask it on the m1 at least the others theay do minus the arete that’s just pain
@@DevinEMILEthe Abrams is actually right there with the minor nations tanks its actually easier to kill in my opinion as a single shot to the center of the lower front plate insta kills the tank. Killing everything inside. The lower plate where the armor is just as thick as one of the turret cheeks. But that's not all granted the abrams has great turret armor it's also the easiest to over pressure cause of all the bullshit on top and the giant commander capola. With the the entire turret ring from the front is a weak spot the drivers port the lower plate. So if you can't get to the turret ring or lower hit the top with HE you will one shot it. Other wise all other provided weak spots are one shots.
@@DevinEMILE Because US players are by far the biggest group of people funding this game. We are also by far the most superior military force on Earth. Why should anyone of us accept Russian dominance? It is extremely immersion breaking. The LeClerc isn't perfect but it still has a stronger turret and the Hull composite actually works. Along with the Type 10 for Japan. Hell, even the VT-4 from China has a stronger hull than the M1A2SEPV2. Its unacceptable. That doesn't mean that other NATO nations shouldn't be fixed. However, if the Abrams is fixed then the rest should follow suit. We merely need to hold Gaijin accountable.
The funny thing is if you actually read the sources provided they objectively disprove Gaijin's standpoint...they quite literally just cherry picked segments that sounded bad.
Sounds about right
Sounds like gaijin.
Ok, like what part. Give me your sources there
That's just sad
@bearschannel9915 they dont give anything to back up their claim tho either, they should show us where it says that against gaijin
THEY DO HAVE SEVERAL SOURCES THAT PROVE THERE’S DU IN THE HULL IN ALL SEP’s, SEPv2’s and SEPv3’s. They just don’t like it.
Sources that are illegal to use. Once they become public they will be used.
@@romanboi3115 no sources that have been provided on the forums specific to the du placement in the hull are classified. ALL of them have been declassified.
Link? @@devendoffing7004
@@romanboi3115by the very fact that we are even aware it exists, I’m fairly certain that constitutes it being declassified my guy. If it still were, not even the average avid American military enthusiast would know.
@@ronaldmcreagann6343This is very false. The nature of the internet allows classified/ illegal things to spread very easily.
So now they prefer realism when at the same time they add stuff like the F16AJ and the kronshtadt ?
Don't forget the 2s38
@@Just_A_Random_Desk more 2s38s exist than challenger 3s and i dont see you complaining about it
@@ИванМатвеев-й2р We do, but the Chally three will be a full production run where the 2S38 will not be put into production at all.
@@ИванМатвеев-й2р I don't play the British tree so easy for me to forget that it's in game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The Challenger 3 also isn't blatantly overpowered for it's vehicle type. The 2s38 is literally better than the HSTV-L in every aspect at a lower BR.
@@Just_A_Random_Desk oh, not the hstvl adepts again
"This is their standards"
Standards hell, they've admitted 5 Hulls had the DU
Should we bring up the T-80B, T-80U, BMP-2/3, AMX-30B/B2 that have thermals despite just a few having ever had em fitted? Is that the standards you're talking about?
Yes, exactly these ones.
Don't be ignorant russia has replaced all its T80Us with T80UMs with thermal imager and BMP2M and BMP3 had thermals in upgrades stop crying
Gaijin won’t give the Abrams DU but will happily give RELIKT paper stats. They won’t buff the Leopard 2A7V hull either, so sadge
1 tonne of relikt = 250mm apfsds protection, 10 tonnes of nato era = ill give you 20mm apfsds protection, take it or leave it
@@waldek7772 Well according to them the Abrams is just putting on weight for fun so?
@@waldek7772 They are completely different types of ERA.
The issue, as most people seem to point out already in the comments is this: Not all tanks are created equal. In what sense? How can they justify giving T-90M the armor it has? 90%+ of things about it are classified and are guesstimates at best. 2s38? Nearly imaginary, misses half the features it has in game, we have 0 concrete data about its armor or actual targeting systems.
All we know is what Russian propaganda gives us, which is, by their own terms, inadmissible, so the "tank" should not be in game, let alone be the best 10.0 tank in the game by a gigantic margin that can do EVERYTHING at once. Same goes for KA helicopters that have half their stuff classified. One thing that isn't, is that Vikhrs can't be manually aimed, yet in game it's mandatory that you do :).
Anything non-russian needs several sources to be even considered and even when they get a relatively clear picture they decide to leave a tank unbalanced and underpowered just because they see it fit. Meanwhile we can't even start talking of balance when France, Italy and Britain get nerfed into hell based on Gaijin's whim, ignoring the possibility that these modern tanks have all-round really freaking good turret armor IRL, while in game they're butter.
This game really is a Russian Cope Simulator at this point. The fact that Russian mains are more interested in complete dominance over balance speaks for itself. I've been called a US main crybaby when in reality I was a Russian main in the beginning. I now own both tech trees in multiple different game modes. Tired of the blatant bias. Gaijin is killing my desire to even research the SEPV2. Its going to negatively effect the community as well as profits. The only reason they continue screwing us over is for the sake of propaganda. It's honestly pathetic.
Then give us a technical demonstrator with the du hull. Britain gets a chally which we have way less info about the armor than than the chally 2
sure, after Russia gets RENK T90M or something of equal fantasy levels
@@ИванМатвеев-й2р not needed for balance, Russia is already leading top tier because of the bias, unless you need more help to win?
@@LewisB3217 Russia leading what? top tier ground is dominated by leopards, top tier air is dominated by f15s, top tier naval is dominated by scharnhorst what's RUSSIA leading?
@@ИванМатвеев-й2р Russian ground my blind comrade, that has been winning for multiple patches, the winrates months ago were 72%, they are still in the 60’s now. It’s a skill issue if you suck with Russia
@@ИванМатвеев-й2р
AA, ground lineup, Aircraft?
Meanwhile they take about it being experiment. lol so wtf is all the experimental prototype shit that’s already in the game for. Pancake tank (object 775), object 279, list goes on. Shit is fucking wild.
“bUT tHeY mADE iT In REaL LiFE” as they give those vehicles fictional stats and weapons systems
Yeah man where’s the US’s CATTB? Or Abrams X? I mean they’re as real as the Yak-141 and 2S38
Imo Gaijin deliberately made the in game Abrams worse to trick US players that have access to classified docs to leak them in hopes of a buff. 😂
I give US mains a Lotta shit for crying about this so much but I do think it's reasonable to suspect that ceramic technology has come a long way and the hill armor probably has been improved in some way. For balance I think they should increase hull protection to a point where only top tier rounds from a decent angle can penetrate it. People would still complain because they don't want the hill armor penetrable at all but I think it'd be a reasonable compromise.
At least that, current BS is absolutely unjustifiable. They also need to buff all nato ERA, there is no fucking way that modern ERA is worse or comparable to mf contact-1.
I used to be an Abrams Tanker and it was very well understood in the community that the DU Armor was in the cheeks and the hull front
It was also well understood that Iraq had nuclear weapons. But guess what? They didnt.
@@romanboi3115 is that relevant? No its not.
@@romanboi3115it wasn’t well known Iraq had nuclear weapons, that was the whole reason many countries refused to directly attack Iraq during the US invasion
This may be the craziest comparison I’ve ever heard
@@romanboi3115 Chemical weapons, America told Saddam to go ahead then used that as a pretense to wipe him out and control his oil.
I’m about to leak the documents for the M1A2 armor layout😂
Yooo chill 😂 don’t get in trouble devil dog
@@HDREal you’re on your own noble, carter out
Yea I guess we go around talking about how we are gonna commit a felony now right?
@@llamaplayz5488 comedy gold
Doesn't the T-80B get thermals despite only having them on a prototype?
yep
same with the t80u
@@paulpaul-nk7xp theres the t80um
whic i just an upgraded t80u
no, a batch of them had agavas, you're comparing a literal HULL to a sight that can be strapped on any time
@@ИванМатвеев-й2р A batch eh...? So... 20 tanks compared to a full production run.
The point isnt that its a hull vs a sight... which cannot just be "Strapped on at any time"
(I know russian engineering is shit, so they have to compensate by throwing on ERA blocks... but a sight is not an ERA block)
After them adding the Yak-141 and "filling in the gaps" for things that never existed on the actual aircraft in order for it to appear as it does in game, this just goes to show the blatant double standard they have for western vehicles vs USSR.
japan f16
The Japanese f-16 isn't even the version that was being pitched to them, which looked notably different from a standard f-16 and had intended to carry a very different weapon loadout. So it's a fictitious extrapolation of a plane that was never adopted with an armament it would never have carried to boot.@@AndreDiasRJ
Well I mean the Yak-41 does exist, 4 prototypes were built but I do get what you mean
@@StalkingGrizzly even going by the debunked “only 5 DU hull” source gaijin cites, then we should have a DU hulled Abrams already then
If you want it to be realistic, it should get R73 and R77
You can actually physically see the increased thickness on the latest abrams in photos
Nyet cumrade, wee here at FSB hea-... i mean Gaijin Headquarters are blind... so we cannot physically see changes.
Have good day!
You can, gaijin can’t because they are blinded by years of turnip vodka, but we can lmao
Unpopular opinion: if there’s not enough information declassified on a vehicle for it to be properly added it shouldn’t be added
I mean your not wrong. But other games have no issues adding these vehicles and at the very least make them balanced
Gaijin: Releases multi page report on why they can't improve the armor on part of the Abrams to make it more effective in the worst performing nation at top tier.
Also Gaijin: Adds spall lines to top tier soviet tanks with no announcement or model, and provides no justification.
can't wait for the best abrams to be released as an event vehicle that will eventually cost $1500 GJC on the marketplace....
Same. The M1 Abrams "Radioactive" lmao
And be the exact same as the M1A2
Not just the Abrams, but the Ariete and the Merkava Mk4s are lacking armor, especially the Merkavas, sad that no one seems to know about them.
Are the mk3 and mk4 Merkavas worth playing? I just started researching the first mk3. I like the mk1 and mk2 I feel like the only way to enjoy top tier is to finish my Russian tree 😂
@@jacobchristen9446The Mk3s are mediocre at best, their turret armor is worse than the premium Mk2D, the Mk3s have the same hull armor as the Mk2s and Mk1s, the only true improvement of the Mk3s to the Mk2s is a very nice shell (589MM), and the Mk3s BR is way to damn high to be useful. The Mk4s are where Israel has its strength, the Mk4B and Mk4B LIC arent too useful, just good filler vehicles, the Mk4M is the pinnacle of Israel ground, and honestly the only vehicle worth going for. Ill warn you though, their armor is mediocre, their mobility is quite nice and the gun is average, turret armor is ok, but wont save you, hull armor is practically non existant, but the APS on the Mk4 is very nice, overall, its up to your preference.
Edit. Just adding some info, all Mk4s have the same armor, no spall liner sadly, excellent anti-heat vehicle, very strong against heat and weak atgms, sabot will eat you though.
@@bias0437 hmm okay, I’ll try to skip the mk3s then. The mk4m does sound pretty cool with the Aps. Once I get it I’ll finally be able to role play as Obama in the Middle East with the Barak 😂
Dont forget about garbage reload rates which are not accurate too :)
Man dont do it to uself, 3 and 4 are completely garbage, no armor, no mobility, garbage reload, nothing bro, just good stock APFDs thats u dont need to grind the top one's but thats it.@@jacobchristen9446
They should have added the sepv2 with the DU regardless of it being on a few tanks on all production models. The reason is obvious.. the other nations get better armour.
They wanted to add spall liners only to the T90M.
Its either bias or they are incompetent. Either way they are shit and the censoring of the forums proves they cannot take criticism.
The crappy part is there is basically no real difference between the m1A1 to M1A2 SEP V2, there is a little, but functionally there is basically no difference. Can’t be said about the Russian studf
@@masterch1ef297 It doesnt matter. They should have upped the armour for balance.
Legit balance is all that matters.
@@masterch1ef297 It doesnt matter. They should have upped the armour for balance.
Legit balance is all that matters.
They are fishing for classified documents at this point. It’s clear that’s the goal
Ikr 😂
iMHO with actions like this, Gaijin trying to make people to leak classified documents about M1
Gaijin is in a pretty stupid place. All they have to do is add du to front hull, but they refuse to. If they keep this up, they gonna leak the sekrit documents.
Its seems like they desperately need an accurate representation of the modern abrams or atleast real documents of its armor 😒
I WONDER WHY THAT IS..... pretty soon the game will just get suddenly disappear from the net being a russian Spy program 😂
It’s the driver, he gain a few tons, you know, American things
At this point it’s clear that they want something they really shouldn’t have. Either that or they genuinely just have that much of a bias against American vehicles, or both.
Getting myself ready for the challenger blog. I can’t wait after this.
they havent even done any of this for any of the abrams in game. the new abrams in game has less armour then the one before it. they just dont want to add it because it means they have to go back and rework the rest of them
But increasing protection do not must request DU armor...In 90s they have turret armor package for Austrlia Abrams without DU armor which have similar protection as first gen DU armor (on M1A1HA) without increasing thickness at all
gaijin really wants another review bombing with all of this double standarts that they have
Now I'm just curious to know why raise the weight of the Ariete tanks, they are already slow and unarmored enough, why make them even heavier.
They weigh 1-2 tonnes less than the best Abrams, yet have nowhere near as comparable armor, something doesn't quite add up.
Got me thinking that Gaijin knows Russian tanks aren’t as good so in order to “balance” them in game they just make them overpowered LMAO
All jokes aside, FUCK gaijin and I will always play warthunder anyways
Lol the U.S tech tree as a whole is underwhelming . They will make the worst fighter jet in history (mig23) 4:37 absolutely insane In game it’s completely unreal but the jet that is (the greatest fighter jet in history) is a half the plane it should be 😂🤣gaijin is a joke who ever the ceo is NEEDS to resign the American disrespect is real and feels borderline racist
Nlg someone's gonna leak something on the m1a2
I do agree that they should just embrace the fact that they are not going to get modern vehicles correct and they should focus on coming up with values that make the game more balanced, and dare I say it, more fun
This is it. Information regarding modern vehicles are either unreliable or classified so Gaijin shouldnt ask for sources that dont exist. What Gaijin needs to do is just balance the tech tree around certain figures… It is frustrating to see that Leo2A7 has weaker armour than the Stridsvagn 122 while it is both newer as well as a lot more heavier, it just doesnt make sense! Russian tanks boosting impenetrable upper hull armour while NATO tanks have cheese for the whole upper hull also doesnt sit right… Clearly something is wrong for instance with the Leo2A7/Strv 122 issue, similar inaccuracies are very easy to come by in high tiers…
Its what i am saying, but its gonna make the screamers scream louder.
Huh? Gaijin needs to be held accountable as every single point they made was debunked. Gaijin has no problem adding shit to the Russian tech trees that never existed. Entire war vessels that never made it off paper. Planes like that Yak141 never being produces. The 2S38 being completely unknown and incomplete, still added. The Ka50 can manually guide Vikhrs in game even though it is impossible IRL. The list goes on. The game would be balanced if NATO tanks we more accurate.
It would be hilarious if Gaijin just added the hull DU to a premium vehicle named a "test variant" and said "there is your fucking Abrams, now buy it."
I can see them doing this tbh. When TEC mentioned that they could add it as an experimental version, my first thought was a $200 pre-order pack for the M1 Abrams "Radioactive" lmao. I think the forums would explode if they did that, and I'd be watching with popcorn.
The out cry and back lash at that point would be more damaging than the boycott and review bombing of the prior year would look like a fucken walk in the park
Then when it stomps all tanks, they add it to every single Russian tank starting with the BT-5
While I don't play to tier, all this denial of any information on armor in these tanks just seem like it going to lead to another high-profile leak of some kind to try to prove it right. At this point I just don't understand the need to make everything so realistic, it's a game, for vehicle that are still classified they should balance them so the gameplay. As it stands the vehicle in this game are not even used in the same fashion as in the real world so what does it matter if not everything is "realistic" I simply want a fun game.
While I don't think much would change even if they were to improve the LFP armor values since the turret ring weakspot exists and is massive, It is funny and very telling that, all of a sudden, Gaijin just shrugs and is like "SHOW US THE SOURCES. SHOW US WHERE IT SAYS THAT IT GETS DU INSERTS!!!!" when they're perfectly happy to make sure russian high-tier vehicles are either massively over-performing, under BRed, or have access to stuff that we don't even know that it actually uses, like the 2S38.
That's another point of contention, as a sabot must bounce off the UFP first in order to hit the turret ring unless you are below it, and when a sabot bounces it shatters, and then should mostly be absorbed by the turret armor. But in WT they seem to remain in tact quite nicely.
Bless you
Also want to point out, when the 2s38 got added to the game it wasn't even unveiled irl
the comunnity need to be 2s38 and foce tham to do the same type of post for this tank
Did the HSTV-L unveiled to exist its a russian game they have more data for their countries rather than others
this entire article is basically gaijin saying "yeah we see your sources but we've chosen to cherrypick even though there's like 3-4 sources directly saying DU is in both the hull and turret." fucking hell just ask for people to leak shit at this point
So add the experimental versions??? Am I missing something britan has already done this, throw in the m1a2c /sepv3 just for the trophy system (blacknight), then we have our actually fully armored prototype m1a2s since we know they have access to all the top rounds (faster chally 3 proto)
I've had a Abrams driver spaz when I killed them with DM33 in an Ariete. Must be so rough being a US main.
Dude I get nukes but when play the abrams I literally don’t even get a win and when I’m in the hanger I’ve never even seen my teams get me a win if I died early on not a damn one you loose ten times out of ten US mains at top tier have it bad very bad so bad I bet you can do better in a reserve tank at top tier than using the abrams
I tried to indicate a declassified document from 2006, apparently I had reached my comment limit during my sleep
did Gaijin disable comments after a while due to the dissatisfaction of the players?
I got that for 10+ days, its they just way to ban ppl :)
They messed up phantom sight for ground targeting on F16C too,and there is m1a2 same as t72a protection and turret
LEAK MORE DOCUMENTS !!! RAHHHHH🦅🦅🦅
No... no...Noooo!!!
Gaijin fishing for those leaks again
What I truly do not understand is why is there such hesitation to upgrade the armor values on the Abrams.
If only they improved the LFP to withstand penetrators we wouldn't have this issue, that's really all it takes.
Abrams feels like it's made out of paper in WT, when in reality it's the most armored MBT in existence and for the people that say it'll be indestructible, have you seen the huge turret ring? It's a massive shot trap...
Meanwhile in the same boat: absolutely none of the Leclerc variants get upgraded armor / especially the Séries XXI which has better front / turret armor rl, but just doesn't here. Meanwhile they've actually been nerfed as had it's turret rotation nerfed, it's armor as said is point and click for all top tiers; then there's the removal of the thermal for the commander, etc.
All of them are still stuck with the OFL 120 F1 from 1992, rather then using the newer variants such as OFL 120 F2 1996, 120 OFLE F2 2013, or even SHARD Mk. 1 2022.
I don't want to play a game where a janky old rebuilt T-55 can't flex on every modern NATO MBT.
The thing thats wierd is the huge increse in weight but the tank it self dont get larger. So Were is all that extra weight if its not in the protection? If you had 1 guess and youre life depended on it what would you say? 😅
Uhm...the large tusk package?
Bro era and another mg doesn’t weigh 4 tons
@@henrynagel7175 so we're ignoring the shielding for crew machine guns on top, every block of arat weighing 60lbs+, and the mounting system for the ERA as well? No wonder people think we're actually retarded as US mains when neither of you can see it did in fact get larger and more protection but not internally (the way it is in game, not saying it doesn't have more IRL but you guys are acting like weight got added magically)
@@williewilson2250yeah no the tusk and Era package on the abeams weighs around 1 ton if that. All the other extras maybe a ton. One thing I can say is Depleted uranium plates are very dense and strong but they are also light. It takes 4 mechanics to lift the du plate up and hold it into place while it's placed bqck into its insert for the lower plate on the abrams 3 plates in all but yeah your looking at maybe 300 to 400 pounds each. And the armor plates can stop dm53 rounds at nearly point blank range.
@@wraithkimura1167 apparently the ERA package alone is close to 2 tons, not adding the armor up top
The weight argument is extremely speculative, and frankly more unreasonable than assuming they upgraded the armor across the board. Maybe those weight increases include the armor? Maybe they upgraded the suspension as well, they say it would overload the suspension, well do you think they would just let that happen, they would solve the problem.
Tank gains 10 tons...must be optics.
meanwhile the SEPs LOST weight on the electronics front by changing to modern wiring and such.
Its not hard to see its armor upgrades. But cant have a good US tank in a Russian game
Abrams should be one of the most protected and well armored tanks around. Russians have ERA cuz their shit is butter thin. Without era they would get fucked by 105s. Abrams is 70 tons cuz its armored like a beast....and still reasonably mobile cuz the turbine is awesome
I'm not saying that the DU inserts or the Spall liner will stop US winrates from falling, but it should make the M1 more survivable. Shooting Leo2 A7V or T90M only for my round to do no damage as usual but now cannot be called a bug is rather annoying.
It's about balance, not realism. If we wanted the game to be realistsic then US matches should be able to spawn CAS immediatley and with F111 and A10 to destroy the opponents. We aren't after realism, we jutst want our tank to start tanking like the other Top Tier MBTs.
Also, what standards? The T80 getting thermals when it didn't have any? No it's just picking and choosing, that is all.
Why are you people getting all cranked? War Thunder is an arcade game masquerading as a sim. Don't like the way Gaijin has its hand in your pocket to buy more and more fake AFVs or the flat fake combat model? Stop wasting your money and get Steel Beasts Pro and play a real sim.
The Abrams history speaks for itself self. It takes ATGMs and RPGs like a boss.
This comment has been reported to your local Snail Truth Commissar - You have been revoked your right to speak here on youtube, the game, and in real life for 2 years.
Now don't be stupid comrade, were being historical here... btw DID YOU SEE THE NEW EXPERIMENTAL STUFF WE ADDED TO THE RUSSIAN TREE? I mean none of this stuff ever made pass the drawing board but for the shake of balance we just gave it what ever it needed to crush those capitalists. Your debt card if you please and we can get this worked out quickly
The hull armor thing will be ongoing cause the US Army is smart and doesn’t want people to know the armor values of the tank. The thing that makes me really mad that they don’t have a screen to hide behind on it no M829a3 with them saying it would have little effect on firepower (which is just wrong) but what they are really saying is they don’t want to add a round that makes K5 useless and is probably decently effective against relikt for whatever reason. In the end the end of the abrams was to be implemented with all of its capabilities and strengths it would probably too OP because it is a hecking good tank.
DM53 and M829A2 are making K5 useless
Gaijan has always had Russian bias!!! I am a 21 US ARMY veteran. so, I know what I'm talking about. In a one-on-one tank battle, the t90 series of tanks are NO match for Abrams tanks. I was a Bradley Fighting Vehicle Master Gunner, so I know a little about tanks and fighting vehicles and their capabilities. War Thunder is a GAME and nothing more!!! It does not represent real life warefare..... But Gaijan should do something about fixing Russian bias throughout the game......
So why would systems enhancement be used to find armor upgrades. They started toying with DU when they were builders the M1A1 which is why the IPM1 received DU . This is such a joke and TEC you can try and pretend to be neutral but we know. Like how many damn source do they need. What the hell is " oh we cant find sources say where the DU exactly is. Sounds like some damn KGB statement to me.
I think most ppl are upset about the lack of armor on the upper glacis on the front
Bvm have not even half armor of abrams and its not penetrable with best ammo in game, while cheeks of abrams on specific angle are.
I am physicist on material engineriing institute. And I can tell you, if for example Russian ERA is not made from antinater or some dense neutron matter it is not possible for 3mm plate to protect 200 mm kinetic energy.
I know there is exploeive but explosive energy is tied to amount of that explosive at given point.
It COULD have such potential if it were 50mm and shell was not a high speed rod but a round or flat capped shell.
So? So I want to say that russians in 90 already have antimatter, so fuck off you all US lovers!
This is exactly what challenger 1 faced when it was implemented.
That's such stupid reasoning lol. There's already experimental vehicles in war thunder, and not just premium ones. And if proof IS released, they'll say it's fake and won't add it anyway. Even if they do add it, it'll prob just be behind a pay wall or increase the grind even further. Such shitty game designers honestly.
One of the sources literally said it was added to the "body" of the tank. That's the hull. Also for all they know the suspension was improved to handle more weight.
Gijan has to be working for the Russian MOTD at this point. Basically just trying to steal the American armor design with them ignoring the jump in weight that is almost perfectly aligned with DU in public primary source documents. Any other primary source is almost certainly classified, even if just a confirmation with no design or construction documentation included
Gaijin keeps digging their own grave. They need to either say that they only work with the production version of the tank, or the most modified version of the tank. This is a double standard that can be fixed if they just add DU to the Abrams and other technologies that would definitely not be on the production version of Russian tanks. For example: in Ukraine the Russians are not even using their most powerful APFSDS projectiles I have heard they are using much older 3BM22 or 3BM9 instead of 3BM60 due to production and supply chain problems. If Gaijin wants to be accurate in this way they should not give the Abrams DU and remove all non-production tech from Russian tanks as well. Like the T-80B and T-80U only having thermals on prototypes.
I find it stupid that if gaijin really thinks that the Sep V1 and V2s are basically the same as shown in game, why even add the V2? Why would the second version even exist if its the same effectiveness? Why not just go straight to the current V3?
Agreed it needs to be dropped, but if you are running into this many issues with adding a vehicle why add it in the first place. I love modern vehicles and everything about them, just why are they being added if their is no information confirming or denying anything and is a blank slate. Dont add vehicles that you cant be 110% certain about. Its a game just balance everything so every vehicle performs reasonably. Thats the point we are at with this game, no information will give you the exact intel you need or want especially with american information, it will either be all lies to make it better or to hide its true potential. One more thing, equipment is only as good as its operator american teams do not play to their strengths instead run in get maybe a kill and die or leave after one death its the player base thats the problem not just the tank and im gulty of that too, when i play it correctly and smart i can get kills and maybe win games but when i play it with no thought and no strategy i barley drop 3 kills. Its not a point and click like alot of tanks, it has very easy to exploit weaknesses and you have to know how to counter said weaknesses to out perform other tanks, same goes for every other nation
Lol gaijin russians tanks are better source random russian official. Immediately adds to russian line up god mode.Rest of the world we will not disclose how good are tanks are gaijin make them vulnerable to everything 😂😂😂😂
I honestly don't get how anyone can really be upset, just relax and enjoy the game, don't get so butthurt because they didn't implement something perfectly. Can't imagine how any of you must behave in public when someone says no to something
they could just make it a modification
they don't want it too be wrong but for russia we get pure fantasy double standards are wonderful, m1a2 should've actually lost some weight because modernizations made a lot of components lighter
Lol I pissed off the Devs I think with my post in Forums and ended up getting a silenced and the posted closed after ruffle 3k people replied and agreed!~!!!
Saying the torsen bars can't hold the weight makes absolutely zero sense because they are, and they do....
if they were a little honest with themselves and us and say 'hey, russian players are our biggest source of income so we will keep russian vehicles busted and keep nerfing the rest' people would be far less pissed
If a voice line in far cry 6 about du armor isn’t enough to prove it, I don’t know what is gaijin
only the v3 has upgradet hull armor and what kind of armor is classified. so yeah what are we even talking about here.
Just make russian vehicles invincable like you want to gaijin. And make them fly, and be submarines.
Clearly it’s not the Russians being the problem but rather the nasty German crap look at how obnoxious all of their tanks are from the late 70’s up to 2000s.
What makes you say they want to do that?
12:56 Nope, this where you got it wrong. This doesn't apply to anything Russian.
do not listen to him shilling fellow burgers, go to message boards and see more then 20 different sources about the hull of the M1.
But Russia made like two 2S38 in 2020 and it was added as a premium vehicle like a year later.
Why do people care about all of that it will be always balanced for gameplay reasons...
Idk man, things like the ho ri proto and production are in teh game so give the top tier abrams something better for its hull I guess.