Scorcher would be my favorite go to primary but the magazine size feels way too restrictive. I am always running out of ammo and it isn't from missed shots or being trigger happy. Such a good gun but it's held back by the magazine size.
At first, I thought ppl who used it were using the arc thrower. And I couldn't figure out why mine wasn't shooting as fast. As soon as I realized there was a similar wep called "blizer". I knew I was gonna be my primary. (Love at first sight 😍). Paired with my b-08 llight gunner helmet, I feel like a neo Jin Roh
@@2MeterLP So don't get rag dolled, the missiles move slow and have a decent cool down between them. If you are moving at all to the side they miss you and you have enough time to kill 2+ gunships before the next volley even before engine health was nerf'd. If you are getting rag dolled more than one time you are probably standing still just watching as the missiles take 2 seconds to travel towards you.... just side step them....
worth adding regarding the sickle is that it's massive "mag" allows you to take advantage of one of the oft-forgotten bot mechanics: Bot accuracy drops drastically when they're under fire even if they're not being hit. no better weapon to have when firing into a small crowd.
The reason it's often forgotten is because it only works against troopers, which are rarely a problem. It's an awesome mechanic though and I wish it had at least a limited effect against devastators.
@@mystery_exe Didn't one of the Battlefield games have a mechanic where incoming fire from SAWs would debuff accuracy or movement speed? That would be great to have across the whole board on bots.
I think he underestimated the sickle as well. It'll drop a Stalker fast enough to survive. But the best part is you can switch to it if your support weapon runs dry and it always has a full mag to bail you out. I wouldn't want to use it against spewers, but it'll bail you out if you get jumped by some hunters.
Dagger & Scythe is a great pick for chaff clear vs bugs and everything smaller than a Hulk vs bots, scythe functionally has 400DPS now with pinpoint accuracy and damage over time once you stop shooting
@aniyn It will take down Stalkers even. It's my go to for sure. I've been running it or Scythe since the patch with dagger as my secondary. Everything melts. The fire damage is so good. Sickle is just a fun gun to use.
A couple notable things you didn't mention: The crossbow can actually kill gunships! It's a bad idea, though. I only even tried after being ragdolled across the map and not being able to get my HMG. Laser weapons can set enemies on fire now! The reworks to fire damage apparently lowered the threshold required to set an enemy on fire to where the laser weapons' appropriate stat was set. Apparently they were intended to be able to do this from the start, but nobody at Arrowhead noticed? Glad to see the Adjudicator getting recognition. It's one of my favorite weapons to take against both bots and bugs. It's helpful that explosive resistant armor also reduces recoil.
Lasers also seem more efficient when aiming at limbs, but maybe it's placebo. Scythe can kill brood commanders with better TTK if you aim for legs than when aiming for body or head. Might be because head is armored, body is harder to hit, and legs still count as durable and lasers IIRC are supposed to do more durable damage. Nursing spewers are weird case, as they seem to be killed faster by headshots with laser
For the laser weapons to set enemies on fire, it has nothing to be with rework to fire damage, it's that they have fixed the bug The rework of fire damage, is not about fire damage, but about flame physics, which is a different thing
@@combomaster666 no they don't, they are fully aware of your position at all times, their head missing makes no difference from having it, it just starts a timer that kills them afterwards and gives them a massive speed boost during said timer. The guy that thought about this should be fired.
A big thing for the sickle against the bugs is while the heat cooldown might be longer than a reload it is also passive, meaning in situations where you are swarmed you can combo with your pistol and calling in stratagems to have virtually no downtime on your shots. Easily on of the best weapons for long range engagements against them and very serviceable up close as long as you remember to put it down and let it cool off.
Breaker SP is a damn A tear on bugs you just point in the direction of a group of the little ones and hold down the trigger. I used this almost as much as the breaker fire but now they cut the ammo so it’s mostly Bsp
@@UsernamehearYeah, it's really sad to see people that treat like if it's trash just because the Breaker Incendiary is broken and is the same but better. But removing the Breaker Incendiary from the equation, the Spray and Pray is better vs bugs than the majority of the weapons of the game
I agree with most of your rankings with two notable exceptions: Firstly, for me the Counter Sniper is by far the best bot weapon in the game (if you are a somewhat decent shot that is). It kills all the small bots in one shot regardless where you hit them (except if you hit them in the arms) and it reliably kills all devestator varients in one shot aswell. Granted, you have to hit their face but with some practice this becomes quite easy especially if you have good awarness and use cover and crouching/going prone. I almost can't take any other primary weapon against the bots as I'm so used to the "one shot, one kill" method and any other seems to have an eternal time to kill in comparison. And yes you can also headshot the scout striders aswell. As for the second weapon if find the Sickle to be an extremly power weapon when used in the right circumstances. Yes, the charge-up is a bit long and yes the cooling takes a bit too long aswell. So I generally only take it on cold planets where you can fire it longer and the weapon cools down faster. But the main strenght comes with its synergy of the supply pack. Take the Sickle and a supplypack and don't bother with the cooling and just always replace the heatsink. This turns the Sickle into a true horde clearer where you often finish missions with 700+ kills.
Remember to always aim for the bellies of Devastators when using an assault rifle (heavy devastator obviously excluded). It's also made of light armour, but it's a much bigger target. Remember that you're using an assault rifle, not a marksman rifle. Also remember to change your scope and firing mode settings by holding "R" and pressing related buttons. Burst fire is more useful than you think and having your scope zeroed correctly can and will save your life.
Personally disagree with the placement of the Incendiary Breaker vs the Bots. It is probably one of the best weapons for clearing out Raiders, as you only need to hit them once to set them on fire, which will kill them, and this also applies to scout strider pilots. That may sound very underwhelming, but being able to clear out those smaller enemies lets it pair very well with the Auto-Canon and the AMR. I’d give it a solid B.
I exclusively use the punisher for bugs as it covers so many weaknesses, used the cookout for a bit but you can’t beat the raw damage and stagger of the og punisher
Very solid list, I like the wide array of different testing methods. I do think the Adjudicator is a bit better vs the bots personally, but that is when I use it as a marksman rifle and semi it, your conclusion was very valid for the rest though. Its going to be interesting the see this list being totally reworked for the new balance patches, will definitely check back in.
The slugger I think is the best weapon against both factions, especially combined with the heavy machine gun, the slugs it shoots have so much knockback and even though it says it deals less damage, it deals a lot more damage since it shoots one projectile instead of a spread of pellets, the only way that punisher can deal more damage is if every pellet hits its target. Slugger one shot every tiny enemy AND DEVISTATORS!!! Two shots warriors, alpha warriors, hive guards, and both spewers with head shots. 8 shots to the head plus 2 to the leg on alpha brood commanders will decimate them. not to mention the high versatility of it, considering both its stagger allowing close up encounters and it’s singular slugs that allow long range fights to. I’ve played around 30 super helldive missions and the slugger never let me down
Most assault rifles really need more bullets before reloading to make them good. Mag size just feels too small to do something meaningful in the battle other than stealing resupply boxes
16:56 I love the cookout against the bots because it can kill the smaller bots with 1 shot from even medium ranges thanks to the fire, which stops them from calling in the bot drops. Other than that, it’s the slugger, so it can pretty much stunlock even shielded dev.s. The fire DOT also is cool when you combo it with the senator, which kills a crowd bers. really fast.
If a primary can’t stop a stalker from advancing it is absolutely useless for me. A stalker can just appear in front of you and casually stroll through and instantly murder you through direct fire from the vast majority of primary weapons. It’s incredibly frustrating.
@@ADUSN Well, while I do agree Stalkers should be a support weapon threat, I get people who want a primary weapon that can push them back. That is a preference thing. I prefer harder hitting distance weapons, so the Diligence CS is usually my goto for bots, and I like ARs for bugs, but again, that is a preference thing.
I personally like having weapons be S tier against one faction be weak against another where your B tier weapons are those that are serviceable for both factions.
Yeh I understand what you mean with the sickle, the half second wind up and the lack of stagger against medium enemies always made me run a shield with it. But I’ve used it so much now that its minor weaknesses can be overcome relatively easily as it’s a weapon that forces you to position yourself well. Other than that, it’s extremely high uptime and insane amount of shots before overheating is great for cutting through hordes of bugs
You should re-review the laser beam weapons! They received a buff that allows them to ignite enemies. For larger bugs like brood commanders focus the legs to do damage to the main body to synergize with the fire DoT.
Dude honestly I’m right there with you on the Sickle against bugs. Even all the way up in 9 I perform leaps and bounds better with the base liberator against bugs.
do wanna note that the eruptor is the best gun in the game if you have a "support weapon is primary weapon" mindset with something like the LMGs, arc thrower or such. the long range you can destroy fabricators and holes from, the good damage against heatsinks and weak points you can pull out at range, and the general crowd control makes it very very good as essentially, just gaining 25 more grenades. same goes if you wanna hard run a shield and secondary weapon
back on Miridia, I was a full page off from the breaker incendiary so i had to use the spray&pray. It was okay for most of the missions UNTIL the extraction countdown where it was absolutely broken. The shrieker hordes didn’t stand a chance, even on higher difficulties. The large spread and fast fire rate handled the shrieker wave better than most guns at the time, from what i could tell, it was actually OUTDOING the incendiary during the shrieker wave. However, most armored bugs were definitely problems
Spray and play shot gun have a lot of ammo compared to the other shotgun. I think is better than you think against bugs. For certain weapons just having a few more bullets in the magazine and/or more magazine would allow the weapons to be buffed without changing the damage. because some weapons are good but we quickly run out of ammunition at high difficulty
Great video I really liked it, have to say though I've been using the MP-98 Knight since level 2 or 3 now I'm 92 I think. Never stopped using it apart from some missions & achievements here and there. Overall when you have a squad in a bugs mission it's basically a big cover fire gun just keep everyone on your team safe & run away from the big guys & it'll work great. But the automatons really suck same story really but just go prone & bring a back pack nothing too big is getting past you. But ya it just sucks. Over 200hrs with it & I can't believe this things behind a paywall at least make it worth my money.
I thought they nerfed it in the most recent update? They didn't say anything about it, but personally I find body shots to devastators working less effectively at a distance compared to close. Once spent 3 mags on a rocket devastator that was like 50 meters away, compared to less than 1 mag when it was right in front of me. Anyone else experience this?
There was a survey done on the Low Sodium subreddit, and the Diligence Counter Sniper was the most used bot weapon by a longshot. You can easily and consistently 1 shot all Devastators and light infantry with better handling and a higher ammo capacity than the AMR, only really struggling against Berserkers. Its a lot easier to hit your shots than the Jar 5, and its easy to use at both close and super long ranges. Punisher Plasma was second mainly for utility and crowd control purposes
Howdy! Good analysis overall. I often use the purifier against bots on difficulty 7-10. It works out pretty well with the right load out. I was often running a jump pack, commando, eagle airstrike, and precision strike. My weapons were the purifier, senator pistol, and impact grenades. Senator is for the small infantry bots and anything that gets too close for the purifier. I use the purifier itself like a plasma punisher at a range, helping stun enemies that are shooting at allies. It looked like in your video, you had a very bad rhythm with the gun. You can release the charge button a fraction of second before the crosshairs close to shoot as soon it charges. You can also immediately charge again after shooting, so you get a rate of fire like the plasma punisher, but with more ammo and more range.
Ammo economy is the only thing holding it back, like a lot of the primaries. Taking half a mag to dump mid-tier enemies when you only have 6 mags is horribke.
We don't wanna get used tk it because the moment it does catch on arrowhead will cut its mags in half and punch you in the balls every time we equip it
Jar-5 Dominator also can do this, as some shotguns and even explosive crossbow can 2 hit them with stun effect. But Blitzer doesn't have additional damage against "meaty" parts. So it can't kill charger, impaler, or titan, as jar, plas, or even crossbow can do.
The trick with the FLAM-66 is to light the ground on fire while they walk into it, and **then** DPS the bugs coming at you. It's considerably more effective that way. You also need to know that the burn damage only hits the main body, so if your projectiles are hitting the head then your DPS is split across body parts.
First off, what a cursed name Second, solid tier list Third, after i gave the purifier a spin, i didnt like it much. I went back to the scorcher and immediately felt uncomfortable. I run out if ammo so fast. the aoe is so small. I honestly dont like the scorcher as much as i used to. I got too comfortable with the benefits of the purifier, especially the ammo. The scorcher ran dry so fast that i had to rely on my support weapon The torcher is exactly what i hoped it would be. A flamer i can spawn with. I was surprised to see how well i could burn hordes of bugs with the dot and its now one of my favorite primaries against bots now Ive always loved burning bots ever since they fixed the bug and having a replacement for my flamer means i can bring the railgun without giving up on fire. Sure, the molotovs are really good on bots but i can run iut of those faster than i can run out of fuel. Plus its easier to ressuply my primary than it is to ressuply my grenades. The new armor is also a blessing for my pyromaniac playstyle vs bits since they often ragdoll me and set me on fire. Especially the hulk. The armor lets me get away from what would be certain death and only lose 1/4 of my health. The risk of ragdoll fire alone has made the new armor the goat in my eyes. Another thing i like to bring to this combo is the balistic dog. Because its above me, it gets a great angle on the heads of devastators and since im actively running at them, it makes it easier for my dog to pop them. I like to bring the railgun to deal with targets i cant safely reach and pesky hulks and i bring thermite grenades to deal with tanks or hulks as they Can be very efficient vs bots Big fan of the torcher and purifier despite their slow awkward playstyle My favorite is still the pp and i personaly feel its the best primary and rocks both the bugs and bots Yeah sure, hunters get close but i can just shoot the groud if i fail to keep them at bay or use another tool to compensate I like having the peacemaker or the verdict to get them off me quickly if my pp needs a moment to reload or i really need to run away
I agree, that when it is working at his highest potential, this is an A tier weapon. However, it's too inconsistent. If enemies are too close sometimes it misses. Sometimes if there's several enemies in front of you it'll chain-link to three of them, other times it'll just hit one. If this was guaranteed to chain-link 2 to 3 enemies every single time, this should be incredible. However, because of the issues I previously stated, I would say this is a solid B tier.
Blitzer's my go to for bugs at the moment. It's not mentioned in the vid but useful to know that if you ADS with the Blitzer it gives it a tighter focus of the arcs rather than the wide spread, seems more effective against the bigger lads that way.
One really good thing the fire weapons have against bots is how efficiently they can kill hordes of troopers. If even one fire pellet from the cookout touches a trooper they will burn out in seconds. Combine that with how effective the cookout’s stagger is against devastators and you can often stun and burn out multiple devastators in a crowd while clearing out any light troopers around them with incidental fire. All while reloading between shots (:
As a permanent support diver, I love concussive liberator. It gives much more time for teammates to kill/reload/regroup. Also with laser doggo vs bugs and shooty doggo vs bots your offensive capabilities are at least fine. It is not good for playing alone tho.
Best thing they could do that would instantly buff every gun in the game is just to flat out remove the concept of durable damage. Stupid, arbitrary and painfully artificial added health bar to most enemies that does nothing but needlessly tank TTK.
When im fighting the Automatons, i love the plasma punisher just because it stuns heavy devastators, i usually run the AMR as my main weapon against the bots so a heavy devastator up close is incredibly dangerous, being able to switch to my primary and stop it from killing me instantly is insanely useful
If you're taking the Autocannon, the Punisher actually becomes quite a useful primary to use. The autocannon is good for all the heavy enemies and acts as your primary rifle at range, and at closer ranges it can handle Devastators and Berserkers. Now with the rocket striders the autocannon has become a bit less reliable as a bot pick, but before EoF that was a synergy I used to use a lot.
Scorcher is a situational primary weapon when vs bots. You only bring this gun when you team have enough supporting firepower such as sickle and machine gun to bring with them during mission. So Scorcher can shine nicely when firing them at the backline while your teammates are drawing the fire of the enemies while you take out the bigger threats with the scorcher.
With how many enemies have been adjusted, the 10,000sc question I have not personally investigated is if the adjudicator might have jumped to the right side of some breakpoints and become great. But my money in the post buff patch world is on the crossbow, counter sniper(bot), or the torcher(bug).
HMG with supply pack and scorcher is what I've been running vs both bots and bugs. HMG chews up everything from chaff to factory striders, and scorcher is a backup that can deal with any threat when HMG runs out of ammo.
@@frenchspice8189 but you always run out of ammo. Even on diff 8 you have that problem. I wouldnt talk about 10 coz i didnt tried that one. 9 Is enough for me
I quite like the carbine for both factions for trash clearing. I tried a very effective new loadout with it: Carbine, Grenade Pistol, Stun nades Orbital Gatling, Eagle Airstrike, Shield Gen (backpack), Railgun This loadout is busted. I love it.
Not to get into recent events and intended game design and all, but primary weapon implies just that, it is the weapon you're going to use most of the time. So primary weapons not feeling good to use against most of the current enemy types can be seen as bad game design. There's subjectiveness involved and different weapons require different playstyles and not everything needs to be or even feel powerful all of the time, but finding out why certain weapons aren't used more and making them better would do more to promote their use rather than taking "over performing" weapons and making them not as good. Objectives aside you're not suppose to kill everything on the map, but fighting is going to happen so good feeling guns are required.
To be honest primaries should be what you use as the main weapon against small/light enemies and sometimes a bit heavier ones. But all the heavies should get taken out by stratagems or support weapons imo.
I main purifier for bots. You have to plan your attack carefully, and pick your targets carefully. Against the smaller Raiders and gunners, it’s usually better just to aim for the floor at their feet, unless you’re very confident, you can get a direct hit. Realistically though that’s why I bring the deagle sidearm. Use the side arm to clear chaff and small ads, while focussing down devastators with primary. If you can hit the scout strider in the hip it’s usually a OHK. Stun, locking devastator is absolutely overpowered though. With good positioning, you can juggle three or four devastator at once. With bad positioning at minimum you can do too because it takes a devastator to recover,about the same amount of time that it takes for you to hit another devastator and then shoot the first one again. You can also take down gun ships with the better part of a magazine in a pinch. I absolutely understand why people don’t like this weapon, the scorcher is far superior as an overall weapon. That being said, I just love the impact of the thing. It reminds me of the old plasma rifle from fallout one and two.
I like to see your point of view, specifically because I like shotguns and dislike the ARs. It really helps put into perspective how good the shotguns are, even though you don't personally enjoy playing with them. I love the Cookout for both bugs and bots. I use the HMG against the bots for sniping and ripping hulks. The cookout is great at cooking berserkers, because they stagger so well and take some chip damage from the fire.
@@DrPooplove And as you said, it is phenomenal on the bug side. In my opinion it is better at doing the "spray and cook" over the i-breaker because of the stagger force. What are your thoughts on the mag change for the i-breaker?
@@mbk337 the ibreaker nerf was unnecessary in my opinion. It is a bit noticeable, but it doesnt kill the gun just have to be more thoughtful with shots and it is still S tier
@@DrPooplove agreed. Still great, just makes things slightly less fun/ more annoying. I hope AH can make some changes in the coming weeks to make the game more exciting and fun. Thanks for your coverage.
Damn the AR23P penetrator was my favorite weapon to use and it’s exactly how you described so much ammo no kills but I love the medium armor pen for certain bots when they didn’t have as many stratagems to counter big bits
Great breakdown, super helpful. I hated the JAR-5 until I paired it with the peak physique armor and now it's one of my favorites to use against both the bots and bugs.
Honestly I use peak physique for everything, it just makes every weapon feel responsive, dodgy ergonomic weapons like the dominator, HMG, autocannon feel great and weapons that were already good handling just feel even better now.
I use the liberator carbine, crossbow, purifier, torcher and the plumbler sometimes. I love the purifier against the bots. Having that explosion damage and that massive stagger Allows me to fight at very long ranges. Even without using my scopes. Striders, devestors, rockets devs, shield devs can all be stun locked and easily bullied and killed. Even has some horde clear potential. I have had multiple bots side by side and hit one directly. Only to take out like 3 or 4 around it also. Guessing the explosion damage got them also.
I really like the Cookout against the bots. One pellet is enough to ignite and kill the light bots so you can spray a couple rounds into a group of bots at rather long range, burn down the light bots, and leave the remaining bots for the HMG to clean up. Saves HMG ammo and quickly reduces incoming fire. It's also a good panic weapon when you find bots uncomfortably close as it can stagger the deadly heavy devastators and control berserkers easily. Great for clearing light bots at surprising range, great for getting bots out of your personal space, compliments support weapons that are better used against the heavier bots. A+ tier for me!
the odd thing about the torcher is that despite being the primary version of the flamethrower, it seems like its designed to be used in a different manner compared to the flamethrower, where the flamethrower is just about shooting a stream of fire into a horde of enemies, the torcher is more like a stinky flame style where you shoot the ground and at the legs of the horde to kill them with constant upkeep of the fire tick damage, given its shorter range when even compared to the secondary, and it's better ammo management lending to being able to shoot it way more, but even using it like this, it's more of a low to mid B tier weapon, if the fire gave a slowing debuff then i can see it being A or even S
I take the Sickle on bots and bugs on level 10. Trigger discipline is important. I use the Senator as backup. Fire until weapon almost overheats then swap to Senator. Fire until you reload then switch back. I don’t swap heat sinks much even on hot planets. It does have a windup but it’s workable.
I genuinely did not expect the jar-5 dominator to be good at the bugs. I always thought the handling and ammo capacity made it struggle against tony hordes of Wilbur's.
I've felt the Liberator Pen was nerfed FAR too hard and has needed a buff for a long time. As it stands now, with only 45 damage, it's collecting dust on everyone's shelves and is the laughing stock of the weapon roster.
For Sickle's defence It has same strengths and weakness as many other light armor pen weapons BUT it has upper hand vs those with updated Lazer update along side with controversial fire behavior changes It does extra FIRE dmg on hits vs BUGS, That alone makes it almost as strong as Tenderizer so that one thing to keep in mind
Great video. IMPO, I would just make another tier, that being D tier right between C and F tier. And shifting everything down a tier that is above the F tier. As there are, IMO, no S tier weapons anymore due to nerfs and how the enemies Simple’s resist or take too much of our ammo to take down enemies leaving us to rely too heavily on bringing supply packs and ammo drops. As the encounters become longer and hard with each difficulty as they should but due to the lack of power and ammo we fall short and come too easily overwhelmed where calling a supply drop is impossible and even if you get it off you can’t get to it. So leaving the supply pack being almost mandatory for pretty much everyone to bring on higher difficulties.
Honestly after you get used to the punisher it’s great for both bots and bugs, bugs cause of stagger looping brood commanders and stalkers, and a good spread to take out multiple shriekers (cookouts better for that though) And for bots it one shots all small enemies, with good aim blow up devastator and berserker heads, and break the heavy devastators gun
Thanks for the video and breakdown! Very well put together, with detailed thoughts and explanations, and a smooth listening experience hehe. I liked the Incendiary Breaker, but never thought it was this ‘god tier’ weapon vs bugs that everyone talked about. It simply didn’t kill fast enough. Burning bugs can still jump/crawl at you and kill you. You had to keep firing to kill them first , basically rendering the fire aspect useless. And with the ammo nerf it just costs too much to use pack to pack. It’s more annoying than anything now. Maybe S tier vs bugs before - but only because of the insane crapitude of most other weapons. It’s low A or high B now. Cookout has more utility so I’m using that until they nerf it. Give every weapon more ammo/mag capacity and buff damage where needed and we might feel more like the ‘good old days’ of the first 2 months.
Diligence CS is S-tier against bots. Berserker is the only small bot that needs more than one shot Inc. Breaker is at least a tier against bots. You can burn down multiple drops of troopers and striders before they deploy. Only weak against heavy devastators. Jar5 is A tier against bots. Clunky and slow firing variant of DCS. Scorcer is B gains bugs. And instagib version of Jar5 against bots. Doesn't feel fun or rewarding. I'd rather take Eruptor.
Purifier is so good it kills gunships in little over half a mag. I dont even bring a support weapon anymore since they only things the purifier cant deal with bile titan and walking factory, id be calling orbitals on anyways. It does take a bit to get the rapid fire trick down but once you do its easily an A tier weapon
Honestly. I think they should give the Liberator Concussive the same stagger force the Pummeler use to have. Spray n Pray needs a larger magazine. like a 60 round drum or something to REALLY live up to it's name.
I came here as played a round and wanted to know what gun two other players were using, it would be nice to hear the sound as its a major part of a guns feel! I think it was the sickle. Even so, really useful vid and nice breakdown
When it comes to the knight against automatons try it in burst fire mode. Not manually bursting but literally switching modes. It helps the ammo economy and mitigates unnecessary recoil from a 4th or 5th shot in a burst
the cookout is definitely an s tier like you said. After the breaker incendiary nerf, I quit using it, and the cookout replaces it. It does a better job then the breaker does, honestly. I'm glad you saw it's power, hopefully they don't nerf it.
I feel I'm the only person who loves the Purifier against the bots, but that's fine, maybe it'll get a big buff if I don't try to hard convincing people it's actually good. I think all it really needs is a large boost to the damage to justify the charge up time. I find its ability to stunlock multiple targets at a time is quite invaluable, and it can be used to deal with all but the heaviest of enemies, but it should definitely do more damage to make it less "this weird wacky gun I like" and more of a proper pick for a primary weapon.
I didn't recognize the Knight for a minute un the beginning, but I remembered not caring much for it since you have to pay extra money for it and a sUpeR CitiZen rank lol
Hi there, great video! Quick question for you, will you consider making a tier video with ranking relative to how good they are in a coordinated team? For example the way you described the AR-23C makes me think it would be a tier higher in a team game (vs bugs). You keep the enemy back, as a team mate finishes them off.
Personally I'd put the torcher at B against the bugs. So long as you make sure you also light the ground on fire it should deal with Warriors and the smaller bugs. Unfortunately mid sized bugs take a bit of direct flame to kill. And it kills Hunters just a tad too slow so they have time to jump and swipe at you just before they die. Id like flames to have at least a bit of stagger against small bugs. That being said I kind of like it paired with the Autocannon.
Bro, the Arc-12 Blitzer is S-Tier for bugs imo. This & the grenade launcher with supply pack with stun grenades is my go to loadout after the flamethrower nerf
As a Sickle main myself, I agree with you, it's imo a weapon made to counter bots more than bugs Btw, when fighting bugs I mostly use the Tenderizer (because I like the design of the gun and the sound), the shotguns (every variants except the plasma since I'm not good with it) and the Torcher (even with the nerf to flamethrower, i still like using it) Against bots, I use the Penetrator, the Counter Sniper, the Defender (only when playing missions with an SSSD or something similar), the Dominator, the Sickle and the Purifier (I prefer it over the Scorcher because of the medium penetration and I also like being able to charge my shot and keep it charged ahead of seeing the enemies when I know they're close but not yet visible) As for secondary, I always go with the Grenade Pistol and sometimes Redeemer Grenade is Impact because it's my favorite (I like the stun grenade too but I wish we had an impact variant like we have for the incendiary now)
slower weapons like the Eruptor and Dominator can benefit from reloading when you are at the last bullet so you do a quicker tactical reload instead of a lengthier full reload all without losing the bullet in the chamber. It's how i increase the sustained damage that's coming out of the Eruptor since it's rather simple to be able to tell when you are on the last bullet even under pressure.
Scythe is good against bugs. You can quickly kill the smaller ones so they dont call a breach. Long range and accurated, you can help other players to clear their tail and snipe nom armored targets. It's not THE strongest gun but one you play around its weaknesses its quite good. A little bit more of stagger would be nice.
I love my Liberator Carbine for bugs and bots tbh, for me I actually like using it against the bots, sure the recoil is a lot but I feel it does good damage.
I'm glad that people still play this. It was great for me for about a week and a half, and I uninstalled it. Starship troopers extermination. On the other hand, I still play and can't wait for full release. Seems hell divers lost a ton of its playerbase. I haven't played in about 5 and a 1/2 or 6 months, is there any reason to return? The thing helldivers imo does better than starship troopers is the variety of gear/weapons. The optimization in HD is far above extermination too.
Great Video, especially for a Diver like me, who hasn't unlocked all weapons yet and doesn't know which are worth it (especially since are not that informative for the practical use of a gun). Nevertheless, if you could make the same video with secondary and stratagem weapons, as well as for the throwables, I would highly appreciate. Cheers from Germany, keep up the good work 👍🏼
Dominator would be my preferred bot weapon if the scope wasn’t misaligned. When you need to flick shot I always get thrown off remembering if the centering is on the laser or the scope
![Mi Forma De Querer [Ya No Quiero Más Llorar] [Axel Virlán]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/26DTAYtGM4w/mqdefault.jpg)
1:18 Liberator AR
2:25 Liberator Penetrator AR
3:37 Liberator Concussive AR
4:39 Liberator Carbine AR
5:43 Tenderizer AR
6:45 Adjudicator AR
8:10 Diligence Marksman
9:29 Diligence CS Marksman
10:48 Knight SMG
12:08 Defender SMG
12:48 Pummeler SMG
14:28 Punisher Shotgun
15:23 Slugger Shotgun
16:13 Cookout Shotgun
17:15 Breaker Shotgun
18:20 Spray and Pray Shotgun
19:13 Breaker Incendiary Shotgun
20:30 Crossbow Explosive
22:26 Dominator Explosive
23:51 Eruptor Explosive
25:35 Punisher Plasma Energy
26:56 Arc Blitzer Energy
28:30 Scythe Energy
29:42 Sickle Energy
31:28 Scorcher Energy
33:00 Purifier Energy
34:53 Torcher Special
36:32 Bug Tier List
36:35 Bot Tier List
@@ProvidenceXIV thank you! Will pin for visability!
Scorcher would be my favorite go to primary but the magazine size feels way too restrictive. I am always running out of ammo and it isn't from missed shots or being trigger happy. Such a good gun but it's held back by the magazine size.
Not the hero we deserve but the hero we needed
@@jordann2879I just run it with supports that need the supply pack like HMG, solves the problem then
Thanks
you choose the blitzer for crowd control. i choose the blitzer for cool lightning. we are not the same
Supreme one, lead us into battle with your cool lightning.
I kneel
I choose it for both? It’s a lot of fun. Totally took me by surprise when I finally picked it up. Post-buff of course.
At first, I thought ppl who used it were using the arc thrower. And I couldn't figure out why mine wasn't shooting as fast. As soon as I realized there was a similar wep called "blizer". I knew I was gonna be my primary. (Love at first sight 😍). Paired with my b-08 llight gunner helmet, I feel like a neo Jin Roh
But what if I do both?
Pro tip that not many Helldivers seem to know, if you shoot the gunships down they'll stop shooting at you.
How... *ragdoll* ...am I... *ragdoll* ...supposed... *ragdoll* ...to... *ragdoll* ...do that?!
@@2MeterLP Annoying, yeah. But the AMR and Autocannon are spectacular anti-air support weapons.
@@OrionDawn15 great options in between being rocket juggled across the galaxy
@@Raso719 Don't get rocket juggled across the galaxy then. The gunships will have a much harder time hitting you if you're moving around.
@@2MeterLP So don't get rag dolled, the missiles move slow and have a decent cool down between them. If you are moving at all to the side they miss you and you have enough time to kill 2+ gunships before the next volley even before engine health was nerf'd. If you are getting rag dolled more than one time you are probably standing still just watching as the missiles take 2 seconds to travel towards you.... just side step them....
The best primary is the HMG and Supply Pack.
Although, the Dominator has better stagger and knock back.
This comment alone says enough about what players want from primaries
Devs, take notice
We want POWER!!!!!@@LaserTractor
@@LaserTractor will they tho? Will they?
@@kneerow4878 probably nah, but we will see. They promised many times so now only their actions will tell
worth adding regarding the sickle is that it's massive "mag" allows you to take advantage of one of the oft-forgotten bot mechanics: Bot accuracy drops drastically when they're under fire even if they're not being hit. no better weapon to have when firing into a small crowd.
The reason it's often forgotten is because it only works against troopers, which are rarely a problem. It's an awesome mechanic though and I wish it had at least a limited effect against devastators.
@@mystery_exe
Didn't one of the Battlefield games have a mechanic where incoming fire from SAWs would debuff accuracy or movement speed? That would be great to have across the whole board on bots.
@@Raso719Afaik you're suppressed by any shot. Specially snipers and hmgs. Worked on both bf3 and 4. Not sure about new ones
@@Henry-xs6kt It was in bf1 to some extent, but I believe they did away with it.
I just want to add that this is kind of a thing now. Devastators now get somewhat suppressed when you hit them, even if you don't flinch them.
Scythe does fire damage now along with all other lazers. Dont sleep on this gun after the patch. Especially against bugs.
I think he underestimated the sickle as well. It'll drop a Stalker fast enough to survive. But the best part is you can switch to it if your support weapon runs dry and it always has a full mag to bail you out. I wouldn't want to use it against spewers, but it'll bail you out if you get jumped by some hunters.
@@aniyn Even against spewers it isn't so bad, you just have to aim consistently at the head.
@@aniyn Even against spewers it isn't so bad, you just have to aim consistently at the head.
Dagger & Scythe is a great pick for chaff clear vs bugs and everything smaller than a Hulk vs bots, scythe functionally has 400DPS now with pinpoint accuracy and damage over time once you stop shooting
@aniyn It will take down Stalkers even. It's my go to for sure. I've been running it or Scythe since the patch with dagger as my secondary. Everything melts. The fire damage is so good. Sickle is just a fun gun to use.
A couple notable things you didn't mention:
The crossbow can actually kill gunships! It's a bad idea, though. I only even tried after being ragdolled across the map and not being able to get my HMG.
Laser weapons can set enemies on fire now! The reworks to fire damage apparently lowered the threshold required to set an enemy on fire to where the laser weapons' appropriate stat was set. Apparently they were intended to be able to do this from the start, but nobody at Arrowhead noticed?
Glad to see the Adjudicator getting recognition. It's one of my favorite weapons to take against both bots and bugs. It's helpful that explosive resistant armor also reduces recoil.
The Lasers struggle to set enemies on fire when hitting their heads though, so, as bizarre as it sounds, you should aim for their bodies instead.
Lasers also seem more efficient when aiming at limbs, but maybe it's placebo. Scythe can kill brood commanders with better TTK if you aim for legs than when aiming for body or head. Might be because head is armored, body is harder to hit, and legs still count as durable and lasers IIRC are supposed to do more durable damage. Nursing spewers are weird case, as they seem to be killed faster by headshots with laser
For the laser weapons to set enemies on fire, it has nothing to be with rework to fire damage, it's that they have fixed the bug
The rework of fire damage, is not about fire damage, but about flame physics, which is a different thing
Blitzer is S tier for bugs.
Not considering it loses shots to carcasses and general inconsistency
Agreed. As long as you move between the shots and your teammate is not dumb enough is walk in front of you
Blitzer is so good for bugs it feels like taking anything else is pointless.
Agreed, being able to constantly fire and barely need to aim helps a lot when getting swarmed
@@TheLongWind that's insane when i-breaker exists, the breaker kills everything in good time not called titan.
A quick tip for when brood/alpha commanders have no heads and are going to slash you, simply melee them away
I swear, not enough people utilize melee in this game. In most of my matches I'm the only one with melee kills xD
Why are you still standing there ? Shoot, move, shoot, move. They charge your last know position.
@@combomaster666 no they don't, they are fully aware of your position at all times, their head missing makes no difference from having it, it just starts a timer that kills them afterwards and gives them a massive speed boost during said timer. The guy that thought about this should be fired.
A big thing for the sickle against the bugs is while the heat cooldown might be longer than a reload it is also passive, meaning in situations where you are swarmed you can combo with your pistol and calling in stratagems to have virtually no downtime on your shots. Easily on of the best weapons for long range engagements against them and very serviceable up close as long as you remember to put it down and let it cool off.
I actually really like the spray and pray shotgun vs the bugs, it's sometimes even better against the breaker depending on how many hunters spawn
Breaker SP is a damn A tear on bugs you just point in the direction of a group of the little ones and hold down the trigger. I used this almost as much as the breaker fire but now they cut the ammo so it’s mostly Bsp
@@UsernamehearYeah, it's really sad to see people that treat like if it's trash just because the Breaker Incendiary is broken and is the same but better.
But removing the Breaker Incendiary from the equation, the Spray and Pray is better vs bugs than the majority of the weapons of the game
The sickle in C tier is criminal
Nope)
Juss to much of ah penalty holding the trigger with such little damage, I agree with c tier
@@justindior3743 Literally best gun in the game vs bots and bugs and its not even close lol
sickle in C tier against bugs is enough for me to know these weapon reviews will probably not offer much useful information for me
God I felt a bowel movement and I felt it in my bones that there was a pooplove upload. The pooplove aura is crazy
@@rileyhayes2497 hahaha 🤣
I agree with most of your rankings with two notable exceptions:
Firstly, for me the Counter Sniper is by far the best bot weapon in the game (if you are a somewhat decent shot that is). It kills all the small bots in one shot regardless where you hit them (except if you hit them in the arms) and it reliably kills all devestator varients in one shot aswell. Granted, you have to hit their face but with some practice this becomes quite easy especially if you have good awarness and use cover and crouching/going prone. I almost can't take any other primary weapon against the bots as I'm so used to the "one shot, one kill" method and any other seems to have an eternal time to kill in comparison. And yes you can also headshot the scout striders aswell.
As for the second weapon if find the Sickle to be an extremly power weapon when used in the right circumstances. Yes, the charge-up is a bit long and yes the cooling takes a bit too long aswell. So I generally only take it on cold planets where you can fire it longer and the weapon cools down faster. But the main strenght comes with its synergy of the supply pack. Take the Sickle and a supplypack and don't bother with the cooling and just always replace the heatsink. This turns the Sickle into a true horde clearer where you often finish missions with 700+ kills.
Remember to always aim for the bellies of Devastators when using an assault rifle (heavy devastator obviously excluded). It's also made of light armour, but it's a much bigger target. Remember that you're using an assault rifle, not a marksman rifle.
Also remember to change your scope and firing mode settings by holding "R" and pressing related buttons. Burst fire is more useful than you think and having your scope zeroed correctly can and will save your life.
Personally disagree with the placement of the Incendiary Breaker vs the Bots. It is probably one of the best weapons for clearing out Raiders, as you only need to hit them once to set them on fire, which will kill them, and this also applies to scout strider pilots. That may sound very underwhelming, but being able to clear out those smaller enemies lets it pair very well with the Auto-Canon and the AMR.
I’d give it a solid B.
I feel that the punisher is more A or S with bugs, since it has more damage than its variants and bridges the gap between the slugger and cookout.
I exclusively use the punisher for bugs as it covers so many weaknesses, used the cookout for a bit but you can’t beat the raw damage and stagger of the og punisher
*Wipes away happy tear* Finally, someone understands the utility of the Punisher Plasma! It seems like everyone wants to call it garbage
LIGHTNING BOLT
We get it, you like PP
great tierlist.
For difficulty 5.
Have to remake it only one month later. Tough, man.
I know but with all the buffs it should be fun
@@DrPooplove I know! Breaker Spray and Pray does damage now!
Adjudicator, my beloved. I loved it since it was realesed.
BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I love BR-14 from realese))))
Very solid list, I like the wide array of different testing methods. I do think the Adjudicator is a bit better vs the bots personally, but that is when I use it as a marksman rifle and semi it, your conclusion was very valid for the rest though.
Its going to be interesting the see this list being totally reworked for the new balance patches, will definitely check back in.
The slugger I think is the best weapon against both factions, especially combined with the heavy machine gun, the slugs it shoots have so much knockback and even though it says it deals less damage, it deals a lot more damage since it shoots one projectile instead of a spread of pellets, the only way that punisher can deal more damage is if every pellet hits its target.
Slugger one shot every tiny enemy AND DEVISTATORS!!! Two shots warriors, alpha warriors, hive guards, and both spewers with head shots. 8 shots to the head plus 2 to the leg on alpha brood commanders will decimate them.
not to mention the high versatility of it, considering both its stagger allowing close up encounters and it’s singular slugs that allow long range fights to.
I’ve played around 30 super helldive missions and the slugger never let me down
Most assault rifles really need more bullets before reloading to make them good. Mag size just feels too small to do something meaningful in the battle other than stealing resupply boxes
16:56 I love the cookout against the bots because it can kill the smaller bots with 1 shot from even medium ranges thanks to the fire, which stops them from calling in the bot drops. Other than that, it’s the slugger, so it can pretty much stunlock even shielded dev.s. The fire DOT also is cool when you combo it with the senator, which kills a crowd bers. really fast.
If a primary can’t stop a stalker from advancing it is absolutely useless for me. A stalker can just appear in front of you and casually stroll through and instantly murder you through direct fire from the vast majority of primary weapons. It’s incredibly frustrating.
Or if I can’t kill shriekers… useless
That's the point, they're serious threats. Toughen up
@@ADUSN Well, while I do agree Stalkers should be a support weapon threat, I get people who want a primary weapon that can push them back. That is a preference thing. I prefer harder hitting distance weapons, so the Diligence CS is usually my goto for bots, and I like ARs for bugs, but again, that is a preference thing.
@@perinoid1506 Sure, but saying a primary is worthless because it doesn't stunlock what is essentially a miniboss sub objective enemy is laughable.
Punisher laughs at puny stalkers
I personally like having weapons be S tier against one faction be weak against another where your B tier weapons are those that are serviceable for both factions.
Yeh I understand what you mean with the sickle, the half second wind up and the lack of stagger against medium enemies always made me run a shield with it. But I’ve used it so much now that its minor weaknesses can be overcome relatively easily as it’s a weapon that forces you to position yourself well. Other than that, it’s extremely high uptime and insane amount of shots before overheating is great for cutting through hordes of bugs
You should re-review the laser beam weapons! They received a buff that allows them to ignite enemies.
For larger bugs like brood commanders focus the legs to do damage to the main body to synergize with the fire DoT.
I’m currently running the erruptor and the stalwart against bugs. It’s working quite well.
Dude honestly I’m right there with you on the Sickle against bugs. Even all the way up in 9 I perform leaps and bounds better with the base liberator against bugs.
do wanna note that the eruptor is the best gun in the game if you have a "support weapon is primary weapon" mindset with something like the LMGs, arc thrower or such. the long range you can destroy fabricators and holes from, the good damage against heatsinks and weak points you can pull out at range, and the general crowd control makes it very very good as essentially, just gaining 25 more grenades. same goes if you wanna hard run a shield and secondary weapon
back on Miridia, I was a full page off from the breaker incendiary so i had to use the spray&pray. It was okay for most of the missions UNTIL the extraction countdown where it was absolutely broken. The shrieker hordes didn’t stand a chance, even on higher difficulties. The large spread and fast fire rate handled the shrieker wave better than most guns at the time, from what i could tell, it was actually OUTDOING the incendiary during the shrieker wave. However, most armored bugs were definitely problems
Ran dry on my defender, snagged a breaker and it did work on meridia
Spray and play shot gun have a lot of ammo compared to the other shotgun. I think is better than you think against bugs.
For certain weapons just having a few more bullets in the magazine and/or more magazine would allow the weapons to be buffed without changing the damage. because some weapons are good but we quickly run out of ammunition at high difficulty
Great video I really liked it, have to say though I've been using the MP-98 Knight since level 2 or 3 now I'm 92 I think. Never stopped using it apart from some missions & achievements here and there. Overall when you have a squad in a bugs mission it's basically a big cover fire gun just keep everyone on your team safe & run away from the big guys & it'll work great. But the automatons really suck same story really but just go prone & bring a back pack nothing too big is getting past you. But ya it just sucks. Over 200hrs with it & I can't believe this things behind a paywall at least make it worth my money.
Scorcher is my baby. Don't let Arrowhead hurt my baby!
I agree completely… the day they nerf this weapon I will leave the game.
"30%"
I thought they nerfed it in the most recent update? They didn't say anything about it, but personally I find body shots to devastators working less effectively at a distance compared to close. Once spent 3 mags on a rocket devastator that was like 50 meters away, compared to less than 1 mag when it was right in front of me. Anyone else experience this?
@@geb6970Yes. it was nerfed .
@@AdamSmasher-Official No it didnt
There was a survey done on the Low Sodium subreddit, and the Diligence Counter Sniper was the most used bot weapon by a longshot. You can easily and consistently 1 shot all Devastators and light infantry with better handling and a higher ammo capacity than the AMR, only really struggling against Berserkers. Its a lot easier to hit your shots than the Jar 5, and its easy to use at both close and super long ranges. Punisher Plasma was second mainly for utility and crowd control purposes
Howdy! Good analysis overall.
I often use the purifier against bots on difficulty 7-10. It works out pretty well with the right load out. I was often running a jump pack, commando, eagle airstrike, and precision strike. My weapons were the purifier, senator pistol, and impact grenades. Senator is for the small infantry bots and anything that gets too close for the purifier. I use the purifier itself like a plasma punisher at a range, helping stun enemies that are shooting at allies.
It looked like in your video, you had a very bad rhythm with the gun. You can release the charge button a fraction of second before the crosshairs close to shoot as soon it charges. You can also immediately charge again after shooting, so you get a rate of fire like the plasma punisher, but with more ammo and more range.
bro its funny the scorcher is HILARIOUSLY underrated for both factions, idk why ppl dont use it more
There are people who only pays attention to the more S tier stuff
Ammo economy is the only thing holding it back, like a lot of the primaries.
Taking half a mag to dump mid-tier enemies when you only have 6 mags is horribke.
I stoped using it because it's so good it ended up being boring.
We don't wanna get used tk it because the moment it does catch on arrowhead will cut its mags in half and punch you in the balls every time we equip it
Good, it's a garbage gun
...
Arrowhead is listening
Purifier isn't for the many. It's one of my favs. To use it to its fullest don't aim for your target, aim for their feet or in-between targets.
Blitzer should definitely be an A because it can stun spewers shooting their bile on you.
Jar-5 Dominator also can do this, as some shotguns and even explosive crossbow can 2 hit them with stun effect. But Blitzer doesn't have additional damage against "meaty" parts. So it can't kill charger, impaler, or titan, as jar, plas, or even crossbow can do.
@@arcticarctic3034 absolutely.
The trick with the FLAM-66 is to light the ground on fire while they walk into it, and **then** DPS the bugs coming at you. It's considerably more effective that way.
You also need to know that the burn damage only hits the main body, so if your projectiles are hitting the head then your DPS is split across body parts.
First off, what a cursed name
Second, solid tier list
Third, after i gave the purifier a spin, i didnt like it much. I went back to the scorcher and immediately felt uncomfortable. I run out if ammo so fast. the aoe is so small. I honestly dont like the scorcher as much as i used to. I got too comfortable with the benefits of the purifier, especially the ammo. The scorcher ran dry so fast that i had to rely on my support weapon
The torcher is exactly what i hoped it would be. A flamer i can spawn with. I was surprised to see how well i could burn hordes of bugs with the dot and its now one of my favorite primaries against bots now
Ive always loved burning bots ever since they fixed the bug and having a replacement for my flamer means i can bring the railgun without giving up on fire. Sure, the molotovs are really good on bots but i can run iut of those faster than i can run out of fuel. Plus its easier to ressuply my primary than it is to ressuply my grenades.
The new armor is also a blessing for my pyromaniac playstyle vs bits since they often ragdoll me and set me on fire. Especially the hulk.
The armor lets me get away from what would be certain death and only lose 1/4 of my health. The risk of ragdoll fire alone has made the new armor the goat in my eyes. Another thing i like to bring to this combo is the balistic dog. Because its above me, it gets a great angle on the heads of devastators and since im actively running at them, it makes it easier for my dog to pop them. I like to bring the railgun to deal with targets i cant safely reach and pesky hulks and i bring thermite grenades to deal with tanks or hulks as they Can be very efficient vs bots
Big fan of the torcher and purifier despite their slow awkward playstyle
My favorite is still the pp and i personaly feel its the best primary and rocks both the bugs and bots
Yeah sure, hunters get close but i can just shoot the groud if i fail to keep them at bay or use another tool to compensate
I like having the peacemaker or the verdict to get them off me quickly if my pp needs a moment to reload or i really need to run away
Blitzer in B tier? Nah
Right this is a mf high A on bugs minimum
I agree, that when it is working at his highest potential, this is an A tier weapon. However, it's too inconsistent. If enemies are too close sometimes it misses. Sometimes if there's several enemies in front of you it'll chain-link to three of them, other times it'll just hit one. If this was guaranteed to chain-link 2 to 3 enemies every single time, this should be incredible. However, because of the issues I previously stated, I would say this is a solid B tier.
I would have given the Blitzer a higher rating vs the bugs. IT's my go to primary.
Blitzer's my go to for bugs at the moment. It's not mentioned in the vid but useful to know that if you ADS with the Blitzer it gives it a tighter focus of the arcs rather than the wide spread, seems more effective against the bigger lads that way.
@@falseblackbear3553 false
One really good thing the fire weapons have against bots is how efficiently they can kill hordes of troopers. If even one fire pellet from the cookout touches a trooper they will burn out in seconds.
Combine that with how effective the cookout’s stagger is against devastators and you can often stun and burn out multiple devastators in a crowd while clearing out any light troopers around them with incidental fire. All while reloading between shots (:
As a permanent support diver, I love concussive liberator.
It gives much more time for teammates to kill/reload/regroup. Also with laser doggo vs bugs and shooty doggo vs bots your offensive capabilities are at least fine.
It is not good for playing alone tho.
Best thing they could do that would instantly buff every gun in the game is just to flat out remove the concept of durable damage. Stupid, arbitrary and painfully artificial added health bar to most enemies that does nothing but needlessly tank TTK.
When im fighting the Automatons, i love the plasma punisher just because it stuns heavy devastators, i usually run the AMR as my main weapon against the bots so a heavy devastator up close is incredibly dangerous, being able to switch to my primary and stop it from killing me instantly is insanely useful
If you're taking the Autocannon, the Punisher actually becomes quite a useful primary to use. The autocannon is good for all the heavy enemies and acts as your primary rifle at range, and at closer ranges it can handle Devastators and Berserkers.
Now with the rocket striders the autocannon has become a bit less reliable as a bot pick, but before EoF that was a synergy I used to use a lot.
Scorcher is a situational primary weapon when vs bots. You only bring this gun when you team have enough supporting firepower such as sickle and machine gun to bring with them during mission. So Scorcher can shine nicely when firing them at the backline while your teammates are drawing the fire of the enemies while you take out the bigger threats with the scorcher.
With how many enemies have been adjusted, the 10,000sc question I have not personally investigated is if the adjudicator might have jumped to the right side of some breakpoints and become great.
But my money in the post buff patch world is on the crossbow, counter sniper(bot), or the torcher(bug).
HMG with supply pack and scorcher is what I've been running vs both bots and bugs. HMG chews up everything from chaff to factory striders, and scorcher is a backup that can deal with any threat when HMG runs out of ammo.
blitzer is S for bugs and D for bots... While recently nerfed breaker is now B not S as long as you dont take supply backpack.
If you're smart with how you're sprayin, i dont think the supply pack is totally necessary
@@frenchspice8189 but you always run out of ammo. Even on diff 8 you have that problem. I wouldnt talk about 10 coz i didnt tried that one. 9 Is enough for me
@ladislavtrojan8765 I do use alot of resupplies when I bring the fire breaker lol I guess you're right. Idk I'd say A tier
Blitzer shoots too slow. IF it was buffed to 60 RPM it'd be a lot nicer. And make it arc more consistently.
@@ladislavtrojan8765 How ? Are you using it all the time, don't you bring any support weapons with you ?
I don't run out of ammo with it at all.
I quite like the carbine for both factions for trash clearing.
I tried a very effective new loadout with it:
Carbine, Grenade Pistol, Stun nades
Orbital Gatling, Eagle Airstrike, Shield Gen (backpack), Railgun
This loadout is busted. I love it.
Not to get into recent events and intended game design and all, but primary weapon implies just that, it is the weapon you're going to use most of the time. So primary weapons not feeling good to use against most of the current enemy types can be seen as bad game design. There's subjectiveness involved and different weapons require different playstyles and not everything needs to be or even feel powerful all of the time, but finding out why certain weapons aren't used more and making them better would do more to promote their use rather than taking "over performing" weapons and making them not as good.
Objectives aside you're not suppose to kill everything on the map, but fighting is going to happen so good feeling guns are required.
To be honest primaries should be what you use as the main weapon against small/light enemies and sometimes a bit heavier ones. But all the heavies should get taken out by stratagems or support weapons imo.
@@Even_N.D. I don't disagree with that, the issue being that currently most primary weapons can't do that very well.
Me: I only get my information from reliable sources
The sources: Dr. Poop love
I main purifier for bots. You have to plan your attack carefully, and pick your targets carefully. Against the smaller Raiders and gunners, it’s usually better just to aim for the floor at their feet, unless you’re very confident, you can get a direct hit. Realistically though that’s why I bring the deagle sidearm. Use the side arm to clear chaff and small ads, while focussing down devastators with primary. If you can hit the scout strider in the hip it’s usually a OHK.
Stun, locking devastator is absolutely overpowered though. With good positioning, you can juggle three or four devastator at once. With bad positioning at minimum you can do too because it takes a devastator to recover,about the same amount of time that it takes for you to hit another devastator and then shoot the first one again.
You can also take down gun ships with the better part of a magazine in a pinch.
I absolutely understand why people don’t like this weapon, the scorcher is far superior as an overall weapon. That being said, I just love the impact of the thing. It reminds me of the old plasma rifle from fallout one and two.
I like to see your point of view, specifically because I like shotguns and dislike the ARs. It really helps put into perspective how good the shotguns are, even though you don't personally enjoy playing with them.
I love the Cookout for both bugs and bots. I use the HMG against the bots for sniping and ripping hulks. The cookout is great at cooking berserkers, because they stagger so well and take some chip damage from the fire.
The cookout has nearly converted me into a shotgun lover lol. It’s great!!
@@DrPooplove And as you said, it is phenomenal on the bug side. In my opinion it is better at doing the "spray and cook" over the i-breaker because of the stagger force. What are your thoughts on the mag change for the i-breaker?
@@mbk337 the ibreaker nerf was unnecessary in my opinion. It is a bit noticeable, but it doesnt kill the gun just have to be more thoughtful with shots and it is still S tier
@@DrPooplove agreed. Still great, just makes things slightly less fun/ more annoying. I hope AH can make some changes in the coming weeks to make the game more exciting and fun. Thanks for your coverage.
Damn the AR23P penetrator was my favorite weapon to use and it’s exactly how you described so much ammo no kills but I love the medium armor pen for certain bots when they didn’t have as many stratagems to counter big bits
Great breakdown, super helpful. I hated the JAR-5 until I paired it with the peak physique armor and now it's one of my favorites to use against both the bots and bugs.
Honestly I use peak physique for everything, it just makes every weapon feel responsive, dodgy ergonomic weapons like the dominator, HMG, autocannon feel great and weapons that were already good handling just feel even better now.
The best primary is
DEMOCRACY
I use the liberator carbine, crossbow, purifier, torcher and the plumbler sometimes. I love the purifier against the bots. Having that explosion damage and that massive stagger Allows me to fight at very long ranges. Even without using my scopes. Striders, devestors, rockets devs, shield devs can all be stun locked and easily bullied and killed. Even has some horde clear potential. I have had multiple bots side by side and hit one directly. Only to take out like 3 or 4 around it also. Guessing the explosion damage got them also.
I really like the Cookout against the bots. One pellet is enough to ignite and kill the light bots so you can spray a couple rounds into a group of bots at rather long range, burn down the light bots, and leave the remaining bots for the HMG to clean up. Saves HMG ammo and quickly reduces incoming fire. It's also a good panic weapon when you find bots uncomfortably close as it can stagger the deadly heavy devastators and control berserkers easily. Great for clearing light bots at surprising range, great for getting bots out of your personal space, compliments support weapons that are better used against the heavier bots. A+ tier for me!
the odd thing about the torcher is that despite being the primary version of the flamethrower, it seems like its designed to be used in a different manner compared to the flamethrower, where the flamethrower is just about shooting a stream of fire into a horde of enemies, the torcher is more like a stinky flame style where you shoot the ground and at the legs of the horde to kill them with constant upkeep of the fire tick damage, given its shorter range when even compared to the secondary, and it's better ammo management lending to being able to shoot it way more, but even using it like this, it's more of a low to mid B tier weapon, if the fire gave a slowing debuff then i can see it being A or even S
I take the Sickle on bots and bugs on level 10. Trigger discipline is important. I use the Senator as backup. Fire until weapon almost overheats then swap to Senator. Fire until you reload then switch back. I don’t swap heat sinks much even on hot planets. It does have a windup but it’s workable.
I genuinely did not expect the jar-5 dominator to be good at the bugs. I always thought the handling and ammo capacity made it struggle against tony hordes of Wilbur's.
I've felt the Liberator Pen was nerfed FAR too hard and has needed a buff for a long time. As it stands now, with only 45 damage, it's collecting dust on everyone's shelves and is the laughing stock of the weapon roster.
Honestly one thing that would help out a lot for the torcher would be giving it some stun effect on enemies.
For Sickle's defence
It has same strengths and weakness as many other light armor pen weapons BUT it has upper hand vs those with updated Lazer update along side with controversial fire behavior changes
It does extra FIRE dmg on hits vs BUGS, That alone makes it almost as strong as Tenderizer so that one thing to keep in mind
Great video. IMPO, I would just make another tier, that being D tier right between C and F tier. And shifting everything down a tier that is above the F tier. As there are, IMO, no S tier weapons anymore due to nerfs and how the enemies Simple’s resist or take too much of our ammo to take down enemies leaving us to rely too heavily on bringing supply packs and ammo drops. As the encounters become longer and hard with each difficulty as they should but due to the lack of power and ammo we fall short and come too easily overwhelmed where calling a supply drop is impossible and even if you get it off you can’t get to it. So leaving the supply pack being almost mandatory for pretty much everyone to bring on higher difficulties.
Honestly after you get used to the punisher it’s great for both bots and bugs,
bugs cause of stagger looping brood commanders and stalkers, and a good spread to take out multiple shriekers (cookouts better for that though)
And for bots it one shots all small enemies, with good aim blow up devastator and berserker heads, and break the heavy devastators gun
Thanks for the video and breakdown! Very well put together, with detailed thoughts and explanations, and a smooth listening experience hehe.
I liked the Incendiary Breaker, but never thought it was this ‘god tier’ weapon vs bugs that everyone talked about. It simply didn’t kill fast enough. Burning bugs can still jump/crawl at you and kill you. You had to keep firing to kill them first , basically rendering the fire aspect useless. And with the ammo nerf it just costs too much to use pack to pack. It’s more annoying than anything now.
Maybe S tier vs bugs before - but only because of the insane crapitude of most other weapons. It’s low A or high B now. Cookout has more utility so I’m using that until they nerf it.
Give every weapon more ammo/mag capacity and buff damage where needed and we might feel more like the ‘good old days’ of the first 2 months.
Honestly nice to hear how the scorcher fairs, I kinda glossed over it and didn't gibe it a fair try on release
Diligence CS is S-tier against bots. Berserker is the only small bot that needs more than one shot
Inc. Breaker is at least a tier against bots. You can burn down multiple drops of troopers and striders before they deploy. Only weak against heavy devastators.
Jar5 is A tier against bots. Clunky and slow firing variant of DCS.
Scorcer is B gains bugs. And instagib version of Jar5 against bots. Doesn't feel fun or rewarding. I'd rather take Eruptor.
I really like running eruptor with laser guard dog, eruptor takes care of medium enemies while dog help to not be swarmed by bugs
sg8-p after you learn to handle it becomes THE beast against everything
Purifier is so good it kills gunships in little over half a mag. I dont even bring a support weapon anymore since they only things the purifier cant deal with bile titan and walking factory, id be calling orbitals on anyways. It does take a bit to get the rapid fire trick down but once you do its easily an A tier weapon
That "these FFFFucking things" at 32:42 felt so real.
Honestly. I think they should give the Liberator Concussive the same stagger force the Pummeler use to have. Spray n Pray needs a larger magazine. like a 60 round drum or something to REALLY live up to it's name.
I came here as played a round and wanted to know what gun two other players were using, it would be nice to hear the sound as its a major part of a guns feel! I think it was the sickle. Even so, really useful vid and nice breakdown
The plasma punisher is something I recently discovered and absolutely loved against the bots
When it comes to the knight against automatons try it in burst fire mode. Not manually bursting but literally switching modes. It helps the ammo economy and mitigates unnecessary recoil from a 4th or 5th shot in a burst
Thank you ! Very good guide :D i really go Sickle for the bots and incendiary shotguns with the bugs, but ill try other stuff now :D
the cookout is definitely an s tier like you said. After the breaker incendiary nerf, I quit using it, and the cookout replaces it. It does a better job then the breaker does, honestly. I'm glad you saw it's power, hopefully they don't nerf it.
I feel I'm the only person who loves the Purifier against the bots, but that's fine, maybe it'll get a big buff if I don't try to hard convincing people it's actually good. I think all it really needs is a large boost to the damage to justify the charge up time. I find its ability to stunlock multiple targets at a time is quite invaluable, and it can be used to deal with all but the heaviest of enemies, but it should definitely do more damage to make it less "this weird wacky gun I like" and more of a proper pick for a primary weapon.
I know it isn't the best, but I like the purifier. I guess maybe its just the feel of charging before shooting, but the gun just feels good to use
I didn't recognize the Knight for a minute un the beginning, but I remembered not caring much for it since you have to pay extra money for it and a sUpeR CitiZen rank lol
Hi there, great video! Quick question for you, will you consider making a tier video with ranking relative to how good they are in a coordinated team? For example the way you described the AR-23C makes me think it would be a tier higher in a team game (vs bugs). You keep the enemy back, as a team mate finishes them off.
The scorcher has been my go to for bots since I unlocked it. But I just learned that it can effect gunships and my world has officially changed
Was so worried that the Dominator was gonna be low rated for its handling, besides that - it is extremely good and surprised it hasn't been touched
Personally I'd put the torcher at B against the bugs. So long as you make sure you also light the ground on fire it should deal with Warriors and the smaller bugs. Unfortunately mid sized bugs take a bit of direct flame to kill. And it kills Hunters just a tad too slow so they have time to jump and swipe at you just before they die. Id like flames to have at least a bit of stagger against small bugs.
That being said I kind of like it paired with the Autocannon.
Bro, the Arc-12 Blitzer is S-Tier for bugs imo. This & the grenade launcher with supply pack with stun grenades is my go to loadout after the flamethrower nerf
As a Sickle main myself, I agree with you, it's imo a weapon made to counter bots more than bugs
Btw, when fighting bugs I mostly use the Tenderizer (because I like the design of the gun and the sound), the shotguns (every variants except the plasma since I'm not good with it) and the Torcher (even with the nerf to flamethrower, i still like using it)
Against bots, I use the Penetrator, the Counter Sniper, the Defender (only when playing missions with an SSSD or something similar), the Dominator, the Sickle and the Purifier (I prefer it over the Scorcher because of the medium penetration and I also like being able to charge my shot and keep it charged ahead of seeing the enemies when I know they're close but not yet visible)
As for secondary, I always go with the Grenade Pistol and sometimes Redeemer
Grenade is Impact because it's my favorite (I like the stun grenade too but I wish we had an impact variant like we have for the incendiary now)
slower weapons like the Eruptor and Dominator can benefit from reloading when you are at the last bullet so you do a quicker tactical reload instead of a lengthier full reload all without losing the bullet in the chamber.
It's how i increase the sustained damage that's coming out of the Eruptor since it's rather simple to be able to tell when you are on the last bullet even under pressure.
Scythe is good against bugs. You can quickly kill the smaller ones so they dont call a breach. Long range and accurated, you can help other players to clear their tail and snipe nom armored targets. It's not THE strongest gun but one you play around its weaknesses its quite good. A little bit more of stagger would be nice.
I love my Liberator Carbine for bugs and bots tbh, for me I actually like using it against the bots, sure the recoil is a lot but I feel it does good damage.
I'm glad that people still play this. It was great for me for about a week and a half, and I uninstalled it. Starship troopers extermination. On the other hand, I still play and can't wait for full release. Seems hell divers lost a ton of its playerbase. I haven't played in about 5 and a 1/2 or 6 months, is there any reason to return? The thing helldivers imo does better than starship troopers is the variety of gear/weapons. The optimization in HD is far above extermination too.
SS-Tier against the bugs is clearly the Stalwart
Great Video, especially for a Diver like me, who hasn't unlocked all weapons yet and doesn't know which are worth it (especially since are not that informative for the practical use of a gun). Nevertheless, if you could make the same video with secondary and stratagem weapons, as well as for the throwables, I would highly appreciate. Cheers from Germany, keep up the good work 👍🏼
Dominator would be my preferred bot weapon if the scope wasn’t misaligned. When you need to flick shot I always get thrown off remembering if the centering is on the laser or the scope