Hot take: If the commander situation wasnt enough to show that people who care about the game as an investment more than as a game have too much pull in the community, it's too late for us.
There are options. Look what old Warhammer community did after the publisher created Age of Sigmar. The community created The 9th Age and top Warhammer players are still playing it, completely ignoring what the publisher is doing.
Proxies are hated by the people who are making the money, or are invested in the pricing of their collection. Proxies are a reminder that corporations do not have a monopoly on fun. WotC lost me as a customer when they were selling shoddy foils. If I want to make a deck, I'll buy it from a proxy company before buying from WotC. They do not respect the customer.
Why dont you find a game from a company that you do support then? You arent hurting anyone but yourself and the people who youre playing with who dont cheat by making fake cards.
@@fusionxtras what's fun for one is not fun for all. Don't be that guy that brings proxies into legit matches. It's scummy. It's got the same feel as the guy that plays on multiplayer survival crafters and then removes weight limits, increases material drops and adds fast travel/teleport. It ruins the experience.
Before I even watch my opinion is the only reason anyone can say proxies are bad is if they are butt hurt the value of their cardboard is being diminished. But the main problem with the game is that the cardboard costs too much and we want it to be accessible to all players. One of my biggest problems with the community is that people invest into a card game. It's meant to be played and people who think it's a good investment are taking a dumb risk they don't even realize. Look how mad those people are about their Jeweled lotuses, Docksides, and mana crypts. That reaction is because the people with the toxic behavior are not getting what they want and lashing out because they are losing hundreds if not thousands of dollars on their cardboard they thought they would make money. You never know when a card gets banned or when a better card will replace it or when a reprint will happen. It's all dumb and one day the community might wind up like YuGiOh's and then who are you going to sell all of your cards to lol. Money has poisoned the community and proxies solve all those issues
but what about the billion dollar conglomerate? won't anybody please think of the poor megacorps? you NEED to support them, they can hardly afford their fourth yachts now, just look at what you've done 😢
"We want it to be accessible to all players." I couldn't have said it better myself! The crazy thing is that they could copy Pokémon or even Lorcana (from what I understand of it) and have ALL/most cards have a cheap version so anyone can buy and play and then have secret or rare art cards and make those the ones people chase or 'invest' in.
Hear me out here. If they made a tier list in commander, one with an insanely high ceiling, there could be a home for the cards that are prohibibly expensive printed out, and a home for official still in print magic cards that doesn't allow proxies somewhere below that.
They've said before that they don't take the secondary market into account when making announcements, but I wonder if this new Commander tiers thing might contain some of what you're describing.
@@LoveMagicMonsters oh indeed, I'm just saying that it would be a really great idea to unban the rest of the cards that are banned for being too expensive, then move all that stuff to a tier that makes it different than what everyone else plays, then focus heavily on the second to highest tier being the heart of the format, and making that format hostile towards unofficial product. That way proxies can live in the highest bracket without anyone being mad about it, and they can get behind some sanctioned competitive commander play.
I probably wouldn't use proxies, at least longterm, if the prices weren't so horrendous in most of the "big" card games. I don't want to have to spend hundreds or even thousands of euros to get a halfway competitive deck.
Love this video!!! ❤ What a great deep dive into a "simple" question. You really knocked it out of the park with this one. The ending 😢 *thanks for the validation* but you're pretty amazing too.
4:57 this was my tournament experience. I had an eye for it and when I borrowed a deck I did well. but despite trying for many years, financially I could never scrape together more than budget+ decks. Eventually I got tired of it and bought counterfeits of expensive cards. Mostly undetectable through a double sleeve, they passed on a locals level, also since I really loved playing legacy most people who could tell we're just happy to have fresh blood in the scene. Eventually I re-tried out modern with the same idea, got caught there by someone I ticked off, twice. Got banned from the store after that, but unreported to wotc as far as I can tell, quit magic for a few years until my friends dragged me back with commander, even got unbanned from the store a couple years back.
That's ridiculous. It's bad enough that the foils THEY sell 'curl too much' to be used in tournaments, but keeping great players out of the game because they don't want to spend their savings on pieces of cardboard is crazy to me.
@@LoveMagicMonsters it is to me too, especially since I only ever played for the love of it, I mean legacy isn't exactly the most competitively viable format if you're trying to grind. That's why I switched over to Yugioh for competition, which until recently was a fairly cheap game with some absolutely insane treatments and an even more insane reprint policy. For mtg I save my money and buy decently pretty versions of cards less than $30, and proxy the rest unless a specific version calls to me.
Awesome video! Loved the humor, and genuinely appreciate the messaging. There are numerous options available to TCG companies in order to reduce the cost to consumers while simultaneously increasing their own profits, and if they choose not to do those, then people shouldn't feel bad about proxying
Proxies are fine. I live in a country where Magic isn't a thing, so it's difficult buying singles. WotC doing nothing about essential game pieces being ludicrously expensive also doesn't help.
From my end, I never like using proxies, but I don't mind others using them as long as the purpose of proxying isn't to build some silly pubstomper. But your deep dive was really well spoken mate, amazing work!
I wouldn't say pub stomping has anything to do with proxies. I have always viewed decks as more or less competitive, and every playgroup has its preferred competitiveness. If there is a problem with a card being egregious, then ban that card. It being a legitimate copy due to having too much money doesn't help. Oh, hey, this dockside extortionist is a legal copy while you have a proxy. Only I should have this cardboard! And now suddenly they won as the other three left. Wasn't paying to win fun? I would say not. Having access to the same pool of cards is what makes the game fun. especially if you make rules to include some Yu-Gi-Oh cards.
I think if you take proxies seriously, you are a bad person. If you exclude people from playing proxies, you are a bad person. There is no legitimate reason to prevent people from playing proxies in a casual setting because you are all there to have fun and that should not be prevented just because you can't shell out an arbitrary amount of money for a card or cards. It's just a game. Don't get your panties in a twist.
The Rosewater quote you have is completely out of context. The subject wasn't proxies. Rosewater was responding to someone who said of Universes Beyond cards "I only want to play against real cards, none of this Transformers or Walking Dead stuff." That's paraphrased but the context was 100% UB cards, not proxies. The poster was calling Universes Beyond cards "not real Magic cards" because they are outside IP. Rosewater was correcting that attitude, saying that while the poster could choose not to play UB cards, he shouldn't say they "aren't real cards." If you ask Rosewater, he will tell you proxies are not allowed and not endorsed by WotC. He can't well contradict corporate policy on that subject and his job does depend on card sales. WotC allows for playtest cards, cards you're trying out before buying, but they don't say "It's ok if you just print your deck and never buy our cards."
I appreciate you calling me out on that. This was a mistake on my part and I meant to go into it deeper in my video. I should have made it clear (and I will in the notes of the video) that the reply was about Universes Beyond specifically and that I (and others) have taken the quotes to be a tongue-in-cheek response to proxies as well due to the verbiage and official statements by Wizards like this: magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/proxies-policy-and-communication-2016-01-14 You're correct. He is bound to corporate policy, which is why he can't express his thoughts on proxies directly.
I have proxies for cards i cant afford because the price of them is absurd with a few exceptions. I proxy my 3 duel lands and mox diamond in my primary deck because i live in a state with absurdly high taxes, and it's impossible to afford those even with a decent paying job. I have a proxy of mox amber so that i can play my deck without having to wait for my LGS to sell one. I have a full set of fetch lands and bond lands. So i proxy them in most of my decks so i don't need 4 copies of the same 11 to 25 usd card i already own. Same for shock lands. I could spend the 30 minutes before a game grabbing all the real copies out of my trade binder/other decks, resleeving them, and shuffling. But nobody wants to watch somebody do that. Play with proxies i don't give a shit. Im there to turn an autistic lady and her army of bald people with sharp sticks sideways. Not make fun of you for being slightly more poor than i am.
I wouldn't put any weight behind these "studies". Scientific publishing is in a replicability crisis. Especially when it comes to soft sciences like behavioral econ (e.g. this sunglasses study), replicability is in the single digits. In other words, given any random soft science study, there's a 90%+ probability the study results are false. Some are erroneous at best, with mistakes made that substantially impact the outcome. But the rest are fraudulent at worst, with intentional misrepresentation or manipulation. This has reached epidemic proportions, with major research consultancies getting outed for outright fraud, and even presidents from Harvard and Stanford being implicated for improprieties. Unless and until there's confirmed replicability of a study by disinterested parties, any soft science study should be assumed likely false. "Publication" is not the standard of science. Empirical replicability is.
I love this reply! It's definitely important to remember. I appreciate you taking the time to remind us that peer-reviewed doesn't equate to factual, especially with so many factors to consider (like who funded the study or donated $300 pairs of sunglasses!).
I changed the title. Apparently, a lot of people were getting it recommended. Silly algorithm. But, if you've never played Magic the Gathering before, I do highly recommend it!
I don't proxy because I'm a collector at heart and love assembling a deck. It's a part of the fun for me. I don't care what others do though. In fact, I'd much rather have them proxy for a fairer fight. That's usually more fun for both of us.
It seems like this is largely targeted at commander. Just to point out, it's even worse in other formats. If you want to get into vintage...you could be looking at spending about the US median annual salary on a deck. That's just gatekeeping that stems from a bad business decision 25 years ago. I keep thinking about starting to buy boosters again for the first time in 20 years...but, that's a hair's breadth away from an illegal lottery, and you ALWAYS end up paying more than the expected value of a pack. There's nothing ethical about TCGs on the company side.
I feel like budgeting is PART of the magic experience. Its part of what makes building a deck fun. Found a card out of budget? Find another one that will replace it for a lower price. If someone is play with proxies more expensive cards because they didnt want to drop 100+ dollars on a single card, thats perfectly fine with me as long as they disclose that theyre proxies.
Why does it matter if you disclose that they're proxies? If I cast a Path or Swords on your commander during combat with a proxy instead of WOTC produced card vs a proxy, that changes nothing. If I play 100% proxied full art Theros full arts because I think they're pretty, and you never knew the wiser, no harm was done to anyone. If my entire Urza deck was proxied and I pub stomped with it, that pub stomping didn't happen because of they were proxies, it happened because I was being an asshole and didn't tell them I was running a high-power deck. The only reason proxies become an issue, is when they're used to cheat or are unreadable.
cool video, enjoyed the humor, :40 did laugh, had to read the title like 5 times becuase Trading next to using made my brain ASDGFADFZG, and the thumbnail's 2 proxy examples are too small cant read D: changing the word to fake card or something less niche may help with larger appeal to a general audence which is what you seem to be going for with not directly referencing MTG in the title
I think there is a fine line between proxies with the intention to buy and proxies with no intention to buy. There is also a difference between a proxy of some jank thing and proxying out cards like Rhystic Study, Sorin Markov, etc. I don't mind someone play testing something and with limited quantities some proxies are a necessity for cEDH. However I absolutely am not playing someone at a casual commander EDH event with proxies of multiple high power cards that are solely for the purpose of winning in a casual format without having to buy the real cards. Especially if it's a WPN posted event which makes playing proxies actually illegal at the event. Had it happen the other day where some goof ball nobody plays with and I now know why had a largely proxy Edgar Markov deck that was probably 8-9 power and it was like 'are you for real?'
I proudly use counterfeits. I've played this games over 23 years and I refuse to be a slave/hostage to the speculative market and money addicted crack wh**** :) Edit: I don't sell, nor trade counterfeits.
@@LoveMagicMonsters of course, I don't need any target on my back. The most expensive card I own is Nether Void, and trust me, that's something I don't take with me. Instead I use counterfeit. And altered another one as a present for my wife. It's a shame that these cards just stay locked somewhere, just because they have value. We are losing like that part of the MtG experience. And that makes me really, really sad.
In my experiences people just put rhystic studies, smothering tithe, cyclone rift and other OP stuff into every deck because "proxies are fine". Makes the game worse.
Agreed. I don't have any ethical problem with a proxy but I like a lower power level game and one of the thing that helps regulate the power level of a table is the sheer unavailability of the pushed chase cards. If everyone is running all the best stuff available it distorts the game into something I don't enjoy.
Completely understand this. That's why I made sure to mention power level (and that I miss the more janky decks). Thankfully, I've found an awesome group who keep the power level down and the decks interesting
I liked them! I liked pompous guy with the pipe! If anything, that'd be my only "complaint" I wouldn't have minded more costumes 😂. Give me a wig or a hat or a mask! @@LoveMagicMonsters
Trading Card Game. Collecting and trading cards is part of the game. If you make fake cards then youre cheating. Simple as. Anyone that tries to bring ethics about the company that makes the cards should just find a new game to play from a company they dont care about giving money to, or just buy cards from secondary markets since the producers dont make any money from those sales anyways.
Hot take: If the commander situation wasnt enough to show that people who care about the game as an investment more than as a game have too much pull in the community, it's too late for us.
There are options. Look what old Warhammer community did after the publisher created Age of Sigmar. The community created The 9th Age and top Warhammer players are still playing it, completely ignoring what the publisher is doing.
Proxies are hated by the people who are making the money, or are invested in the pricing of their collection. Proxies are a reminder that corporations do not have a monopoly on fun. WotC lost me as a customer when they were selling shoddy foils. If I want to make a deck, I'll buy it from a proxy company before buying from WotC. They do not respect the customer.
Love that. No monopolies on fun!
proxies are bad in tournament play because they cheapen the experience for everyone else involved.
Why dont you find a game from a company that you do support then? You arent hurting anyone but yourself and the people who youre playing with who dont cheat by making fake cards.
@@phenelthe experience is real, the cards may or not be.
@@fusionxtras what's fun for one is not fun for all. Don't be that guy that brings proxies into legit matches. It's scummy.
It's got the same feel as the guy that plays on multiplayer survival crafters and then removes weight limits, increases material drops and adds fast travel/teleport. It ruins the experience.
Before I even watch my opinion is the only reason anyone can say proxies are bad is if they are butt hurt the value of their cardboard is being diminished. But the main problem with the game is that the cardboard costs too much and we want it to be accessible to all players. One of my biggest problems with the community is that people invest into a card game. It's meant to be played and people who think it's a good investment are taking a dumb risk they don't even realize. Look how mad those people are about their Jeweled lotuses, Docksides, and mana crypts. That reaction is because the people with the toxic behavior are not getting what they want and lashing out because they are losing hundreds if not thousands of dollars on their cardboard they thought they would make money. You never know when a card gets banned or when a better card will replace it or when a reprint will happen. It's all dumb and one day the community might wind up like YuGiOh's and then who are you going to sell all of your cards to lol. Money has poisoned the community and proxies solve all those issues
but what about the billion dollar conglomerate? won't anybody please think of the poor megacorps? you NEED to support them, they can hardly afford their fourth yachts now, just look at what you've done 😢
"We want it to be accessible to all players." I couldn't have said it better myself! The crazy thing is that they could copy Pokémon or even Lorcana (from what I understand of it) and have ALL/most cards have a cheap version so anyone can buy and play and then have secret or rare art cards and make those the ones people chase or 'invest' in.
Right?! WotC should set up a gofundme so we can support them further!
very high quality video. haven’t bought a trading card since I was 14 but the analysis was on point
Wow, thank you, I appreciate the kind words
Hear me out here. If they made a tier list in commander, one with an insanely high ceiling, there could be a home for the cards that are prohibibly expensive printed out, and a home for official still in print magic cards that doesn't allow proxies somewhere below that.
They've said before that they don't take the secondary market into account when making announcements, but I wonder if this new Commander tiers thing might contain some of what you're describing.
@@LoveMagicMonsters oh indeed, I'm just saying that it would be a really great idea to unban the rest of the cards that are banned for being too expensive, then move all that stuff to a tier that makes it different than what everyone else plays, then focus heavily on the second to highest tier being the heart of the format, and making that format hostile towards unofficial product. That way proxies can live in the highest bracket without anyone being mad about it, and they can get behind some sanctioned competitive commander play.
I probably wouldn't use proxies, at least longterm, if the prices weren't so horrendous in most of the "big" card games. I don't want to have to spend hundreds or even thousands of euros to get a halfway competitive deck.
I completely agree, it gets way too expensive
Love this video!!! ❤ What a great deep dive into a "simple" question. You really knocked it out of the park with this one.
The ending 😢 *thanks for the validation* but you're pretty amazing too.
Thank you so much! I appreciate the kind feedback. I think everyone needs a reminder now and again of how wonderful they are
4:57 this was my tournament experience. I had an eye for it and when I borrowed a deck I did well. but despite trying for many years, financially I could never scrape together more than budget+ decks. Eventually I got tired of it and bought counterfeits of expensive cards. Mostly undetectable through a double sleeve, they passed on a locals level, also since I really loved playing legacy most people who could tell we're just happy to have fresh blood in the scene. Eventually I re-tried out modern with the same idea, got caught there by someone I ticked off, twice. Got banned from the store after that, but unreported to wotc as far as I can tell, quit magic for a few years until my friends dragged me back with commander, even got unbanned from the store a couple years back.
That's ridiculous. It's bad enough that the foils THEY sell 'curl too much' to be used in tournaments, but keeping great players out of the game because they don't want to spend their savings on pieces of cardboard is crazy to me.
@@LoveMagicMonsters it is to me too, especially since I only ever played for the love of it, I mean legacy isn't exactly the most competitively viable format if you're trying to grind. That's why I switched over to Yugioh for competition, which until recently was a fairly cheap game with some absolutely insane treatments and an even more insane reprint policy. For mtg I save my money and buy decently pretty versions of cards less than $30, and proxy the rest unless a specific version calls to me.
Awesome video! Loved the humor, and genuinely appreciate the messaging. There are numerous options available to TCG companies in order to reduce the cost to consumers while simultaneously increasing their own profits, and if they choose not to do those, then people shouldn't feel bad about proxying
Thanks! Not everyone is loving the humor, but, hey, I'm just here doing me lol
I just started mtg and I'm using exclusively proxies for the rest of my life
Proxies are fine. I live in a country where Magic isn't a thing, so it's difficult buying singles. WotC doing nothing about essential game pieces being ludicrously expensive also doesn't help.
You got to do what you got to do to play! Glad you were able to find a way to play and enjoy the game. That's what it's all about.
From my end, I never like using proxies, but I don't mind others using them as long as the purpose of proxying isn't to build some silly pubstomper.
But your deep dive was really well spoken mate, amazing work!
there's no difference between pubstomping with legitimate cards or proxies. The problem is the pubstomping, not whether they bought the card or not.
@@TheLeftistOwlnah yeah absolutely agree. I just find it worse when the high value high power cards are proxied for no real reason, just feels worse.
I really appreciate the comment!
And I agree with you. Power level is a major concern.
I wouldn't say pub stomping has anything to do with proxies. I have always viewed decks as more or less competitive, and every playgroup has its preferred competitiveness.
If there is a problem with a card being egregious, then ban that card. It being a legitimate copy due to having too much money doesn't help.
Oh, hey, this dockside extortionist is a legal copy while you have a proxy. Only I should have this cardboard!
And now suddenly they won as the other three left. Wasn't paying to win fun?
I would say not. Having access to the same pool of cards is what makes the game fun. especially if you make rules to include some Yu-Gi-Oh cards.
I think if you take proxies seriously, you are a bad person. If you exclude people from playing proxies, you are a bad person. There is no legitimate reason to prevent people from playing proxies in a casual setting because you are all there to have fun and that should not be prevented just because you can't shell out an arbitrary amount of money for a card or cards. It's just a game. Don't get your panties in a twist.
100% It's a game, we're all here to have fun!
The Rosewater quote you have is completely out of context. The subject wasn't proxies. Rosewater was responding to someone who said of Universes Beyond cards "I only want to play against real cards, none of this Transformers or Walking Dead stuff." That's paraphrased but the context was 100% UB cards, not proxies. The poster was calling Universes Beyond cards "not real Magic cards" because they are outside IP. Rosewater was correcting that attitude, saying that while the poster could choose not to play UB cards, he shouldn't say they "aren't real cards."
If you ask Rosewater, he will tell you proxies are not allowed and not endorsed by WotC. He can't well contradict corporate policy on that subject and his job does depend on card sales. WotC allows for playtest cards, cards you're trying out before buying, but they don't say "It's ok if you just print your deck and never buy our cards."
I appreciate you calling me out on that. This was a mistake on my part and I meant to go into it deeper in my video. I should have made it clear (and I will in the notes of the video) that the reply was about Universes Beyond specifically and that I (and others) have taken the quotes to be a tongue-in-cheek response to proxies as well due to the verbiage and official statements by Wizards like this: magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/proxies-policy-and-communication-2016-01-14
You're correct. He is bound to corporate policy, which is why he can't express his thoughts on proxies directly.
I have proxies for cards i cant afford because the price of them is absurd with a few exceptions. I proxy my 3 duel lands and mox diamond in my primary deck because i live in a state with absurdly high taxes, and it's impossible to afford those even with a decent paying job. I have a proxy of mox amber so that i can play my deck without having to wait for my LGS to sell one. I have a full set of fetch lands and bond lands. So i proxy them in most of my decks so i don't need 4 copies of the same 11 to 25 usd card i already own. Same for shock lands. I could spend the 30 minutes before a game grabbing all the real copies out of my trade binder/other decks, resleeving them, and shuffling. But nobody wants to watch somebody do that.
Play with proxies i don't give a shit. Im there to turn an autistic lady and her army of bald people with sharp sticks sideways. Not make fun of you for being slightly more poor than i am.
I completely agree. It gets ridiculous when one or two cards are the same price as the rest of my deck.
I wouldn't put any weight behind these "studies". Scientific publishing is in a replicability crisis. Especially when it comes to soft sciences like behavioral econ (e.g. this sunglasses study), replicability is in the single digits. In other words, given any random soft science study, there's a 90%+ probability the study results are false. Some are erroneous at best, with mistakes made that substantially impact the outcome. But the rest are fraudulent at worst, with intentional misrepresentation or manipulation. This has reached epidemic proportions, with major research consultancies getting outed for outright fraud, and even presidents from Harvard and Stanford being implicated for improprieties.
Unless and until there's confirmed replicability of a study by disinterested parties, any soft science study should be assumed likely false. "Publication" is not the standard of science. Empirical replicability is.
I love this reply! It's definitely important to remember. I appreciate you taking the time to remind us that peer-reviewed doesn't equate to factual, especially with so many factors to consider (like who funded the study or donated $300 pairs of sunglasses!).
Minutes in I still don’t know what you are trying to talk about and it turned out it’s some card game I never heard of.
I changed the title. Apparently, a lot of people were getting it recommended. Silly algorithm.
But, if you've never played Magic the Gathering before, I do highly recommend it!
My nerdy butt thought this was a VPN ethics question 💀
Hey, we're all nerds here LoL But yeah, I think a few people did.
I don't proxy because I'm a collector at heart and love assembling a deck. It's a part of the fun for me. I don't care what others do though. In fact, I'd much rather have them proxy for a fairer fight. That's usually more fun for both of us.
Totally understand being a collector! I have a video of me trying to collect all of 7th edition because that's when I started playing lol
dope video
Thanks! I appreciate it
It seems like this is largely targeted at commander. Just to point out, it's even worse in other formats. If you want to get into vintage...you could be looking at spending about the US median annual salary on a deck.
That's just gatekeeping that stems from a bad business decision 25 years ago.
I keep thinking about starting to buy boosters again for the first time in 20 years...but, that's a hair's breadth away from an illegal lottery, and you ALWAYS end up paying more than the expected value of a pack. There's nothing ethical about TCGs on the company side.
No.
Playing proxies doesn’t make you a bad person. Spending an exorbitant amount of money on a collectible card game does.
I feel like budgeting is PART of the magic experience. Its part of what makes building a deck fun. Found a card out of budget? Find another one that will replace it for a lower price. If someone is play with proxies more expensive cards because they didnt want to drop 100+ dollars on a single card, thats perfectly fine with me as long as they disclose that theyre proxies.
I agree. I miss when decks were more janky. Thankfully, I've found a group that tries to keep the power levels in check and the decks interesting.
Why does it matter if you disclose that they're proxies? If I cast a Path or Swords on your commander during combat with a proxy instead of WOTC produced card vs a proxy, that changes nothing. If I play 100% proxied full art Theros full arts because I think they're pretty, and you never knew the wiser, no harm was done to anyone. If my entire Urza deck was proxied and I pub stomped with it, that pub stomping didn't happen because of they were proxies, it happened because I was being an asshole and didn't tell them I was running a high-power deck. The only reason proxies become an issue, is when they're used to cheat or are unreadable.
cool video, enjoyed the humor, :40 did laugh, had to read the title like 5 times becuase Trading next to using made my brain ASDGFADFZG, and the thumbnail's 2 proxy examples are too small cant read D:
changing the word to fake card or something less niche may help with larger appeal to a general audence which is what you seem to be going for with not directly referencing MTG in the title
Appreciate the feedback! Yeah, I had to change the title because it was getting recommended to people who didn't play as a 'computer proxy' video.
For me? No they don’t. I’ve spent too much already fr. Now the people who proxy entire decks with crappy skins is annoying.
I can understand how that could be frustrating when you're used to seeing and recognizing the original art.
I think there is a fine line between proxies with the intention to buy and proxies with no intention to buy.
There is also a difference between a proxy of some jank thing and proxying out cards like Rhystic Study, Sorin Markov, etc.
I don't mind someone play testing something and with limited quantities some proxies are a necessity for cEDH.
However I absolutely am not playing someone at a casual commander EDH event with proxies of multiple high power cards that are solely for the purpose of winning in a casual format without having to buy the real cards. Especially if it's a WPN posted event which makes playing proxies actually illegal at the event.
Had it happen the other day where some goof ball nobody plays with and I now know why had a largely proxy Edgar Markov deck that was probably 8-9 power and it was like 'are you for real?'
I proudly use counterfeits.
I've played this games over 23 years and I refuse to be a slave/hostage to the speculative market and money addicted crack wh**** :)
Edit: I don't sell, nor trade counterfeits.
I'm with you. As long as you're not selling proxies, you're just using them to have fun playing a game. No harm in that!
@@LoveMagicMonsters of course, I don't need any target on my back.
The most expensive card I own is Nether Void, and trust me, that's something I don't take with me. Instead I use counterfeit. And altered another one as a present for my wife.
It's a shame that these cards just stay locked somewhere, just because they have value.
We are losing like that part of the MtG experience. And that makes me really, really sad.
You should add a disclaimer that this video is not about computer proxies
But have you ever tried Magic: The Gathering?
@@joecrawford-ub4mc no, and I have never tried it, this showed up randomly on my recommendations
Do you really need a disclaimer for that?
@@ajw3630 it's in his own interests to change the thumbnail, people clicking the video and instantly closing it hurts the video performance
Appreciate the feedback. Didn't even think of that when I upload, my mind was too focused on card games lol
In my experiences people just put rhystic studies, smothering tithe, cyclone rift and other OP stuff into every deck because "proxies are fine". Makes the game worse.
Agreed. I don't have any ethical problem with a proxy but I like a lower power level game and one of the thing that helps regulate the power level of a table is the sheer unavailability of the pushed chase cards. If everyone is running all the best stuff available it distorts the game into something I don't enjoy.
Completely understand this. That's why I made sure to mention power level (and that I miss the more janky decks). Thankfully, I've found an awesome group who keep the power level down and the decks interesting
Bruh you gotta cut the parts of you talking to yourself.
Appreciate the feedback. I 'trying' to go for some extra humor lol
I liked them! I liked pompous guy with the pipe! If anything, that'd be my only "complaint" I wouldn't have minded more costumes 😂. Give me a wig or a hat or a mask! @@LoveMagicMonsters
Trading Card Game. Collecting and trading cards is part of the game. If you make fake cards then youre cheating. Simple as. Anyone that tries to bring ethics about the company that makes the cards should just find a new game to play from a company they dont care about giving money to, or just buy cards from secondary markets since the producers dont make any money from those sales anyways.