Saving the VIN tag on a Honda Trail 70, plus some Ford race car stuff | Redline Update #79
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- It's another week of working on multiple projects in the Hagerty garage. We need to get the body of our Honda Trail 70 motorcycle prepped for paint, but before the sandblasting can happen there's a question of what to do about saving the VIN tag. After Davin solves that conundrum, he moves onto our Ford/Chrysler dirt track race car to begin figuring out the rear end. Davin talks some details about how the suspension needs to be set up on this type of race car and gets to work on customizing the rear leaf springs. Lastly, Davin chats about some potential issues with the Chrysler 440 heads and asks if we have any Mopar enthusiasts in the audience that might be able to help provide some direction.
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Nick Panaritis from Nick's Garage is the 440 Master. He will know exactly what to do. That would be my first call.
That was my exact thought too. Nick would definitely steer him in the right direction for this.
Nick is the Jedi Master of Mopar then comes the pattawans Steve and Fry.
Yes by God he is!
@@anthonykendrick1418 привет.
@mike seguin His brother owns a Parts Store Machine Shop that does his machine work. But a lot of his knowledge is which parts (heads, intakes, etc) work best together. He does know how to machine parts, but doesn't do it himself to prevent duplicating efforts.
Steve Dulcich in Bakersfield, CA also has a lot of Mopar big block experience. He may even have a set of old, ported big chamber heads on the shelf from a prior project.
I am the grandson & son of original owners of Sandusky Motor Parts & the original dealer & seller of that Honda CT 70. We couldn’t be happier to see that bike still bringing joy happiness so may years later. We are also happy to see you restored our dealership sticker to pass down with the history of this bike for many more years to come. From the Ellis Family THANK YOU
Raymond Ellis lll
Ellis Family Motorcycle & ATV Repair
Im sure Dad & Grandpa are looking down proudly 🙏 🙏
I have a pair of 906 heads off of a ‘70 Charger that had a 383. I’d just give them to the channel honestly. They’re ok shape, but need to be gone through by a machine shop.
I agree Nicks Garage has your information you need his shop is the best!
The tumbler on the background... amazing
I saw that too ... LOL was wondering if Davin has it sorted so it won't fall off onto the floor ever again!
Nice tech talk on rebuilding the springs for oval racing.
Nice precision with carefully getting the vin tag off. It annoys me with how many old bikes I get my hands on that have damaged or torn off VIN tags. I'm looking forward to seeing this bike done.
Now dont lose ID the plate!
Stockcar, Having played dirt for decades you need the r/r higher and a touch stiffer than the left. Probably 2 or 3 of those leafs
And the r/r higher. Using say a straight 5 rate shock and l/r straight 4 or 3/5 tie down shock. Put slippers on the rear spring eyes, that will free up the spring. Moving the smaller leaves forward will probably break a spring.
Having the outside softer will give shitloads of cross weight and hike the l/f and probably push like a pig.
Heads, those are steam holes. If you wish to match them drill a 3/8 hole using the gasket to mark them.
Chambers, cut the smaller chamber around 020 that will even up the comp.
Some smog heads actually had better intake runners and if the valve sizes are the same just try to blend them to be the same. Though smog heads usually have the valve seats all eaten up. If that is the case they will make a good door stop!
Devin, this is soooo much fun to watch. Thanks, ya lucky bum!👍
One Frenchie carGuy HondaLover watched this 😎
From France with passion and respect ✌🏼⚜️🇨🇵😎🏁
Resurface both heads to raise the compression of the smog head then port the better head to match the smog head and select pistons according to if you require valve reliefs after the heads are decked. Lightly port the intake and exhaust on the good head as long as you can match the porting, air flow and velocity to the smog head. Resurface the valves or replace the valves with new parts to your liking for valve size, flow also bore press in new valve guides and recut the valve seats.
From there it’s basically match the rockers to your specs, select correct springs, cut or shim the spring pads for spring height and have them flow tested to confirm your work is done. Take piston to valve clearance into effect when installing rockers and selecting the cam lobe lift due to resurfacing the heads. Lastly, confirm the coolant jackets are similar then drill the holes in the better head and port the holes to match the ports on the smog head so than both heads flow and cool equally.
I’m a Ford guy although I’m also a classic car guys as well, there nothing like the sound and performance of a classic engine performing as intended after being rebuilt. The same goes for the cars appearance both interior and exterior as well as the ride and handling of the vehicle too. Everything should feel the way the car was intended to be used, we all know ride quality is sacrificed for handling when racing is the intended use. Though even a race car can still ride smooth and feel like your riding on rails!!!
“If you don’t try something then you’re just standing still.”...... BRILLIANT!
You need to try and contact David Frieburger or Steve Diluce with Motor Trend. They know Mopar inside and out
Freiberger is just a talking head....
@@crazyrat51 maybe, but when you talk about something as much as he does you kinda learn a bunch too
Freigerger has done okay for himself Writer and editor for 30 years he’s got figure out
17:15 always the best part of these videos, couldn't have said it better
I had a '71 Honda 70 of the same color; 4spd clutch. Dad bought it new, and I was the one to pretty much take ownership.
What Davin is so politely and humbly trying to say is that he doesn't want to peel up the VIN tag and paint around it because he would prefer to do the job the right way. Very nice to see :)
I think people often use a chisel to hit those hammered in screw rivets from inside the neck.
Find a match to the high compression head. It is a race car and would be the choice made in the day. Cheers 🇨🇦
In the 70s growing up my uncle had a farm and two Honda Trail 70 mini bikes. I bet I put 30,000 miles on them. It is where I learned to fix things. I would love to have another one. Such good memories
Your ideas on the heads is, right on. The water jackets are of no consequence. Put it tougher and disregard any worries. But, use the head gaskets for the 66-72.
This is what happens when people don’t write down why they do things. It is a possibility that these heads were mixed for a reason. Since nobody recorded this information you may never know. It could be that there was an issue with the vehicle always making left-hand turns. It’s worth looking into.
Nevermind
Me: "There's no such thing as a plastic razor blade!" I stand corrected.
Not true. They are made in northeast ohio. I was given a few 10 years ago by the owners son.
They’re handy as hell, I use them everyday for adhesive removal.
you can deck the larger head to shave the combustion chamber down to match the CC's, You can also use a thicker gasket on the smaller head to increase CC's...cant help with the water jacket...second the call to Dulcich
I’d say whichever side is going to be on the outside of the turn should be the one without the holes to the water jacket. That way the centrifugal force pushing against the head will keep water flowing to it but the head on the inner side of the turn will still have good flow due to the extra holes.
Use the starter punch to center of the rivet, then use a small drill bit the drill the head off. easier and quicker.
The 440 source heads look like cast iron but are aluminium. That would be your best choice for cheap performance while maintaining the cast iron look. Indy Cylinder head built cast iron 440 heads for a while, but good luck finding a set. These Indy heads do not look like stock heads. A set of reproduction max wedge heads would look the part for your race car and would step up your performance quite a bit, but will require a max wedge intake. Stock cast iron heads are readily available as the aftermarket offerings are much better for performance applications.
I’m NOT a mopar guy, but I would draw the line on miss matched heads when water jackets don’t match. Try to find another ‘older’ head to match.
It’s like open heart tag removal surgery, good one! 😎👍🇨🇦
I'm not going to lie. When you put that nice all original paint frame in the blaster I cried a little. There only original once sir.
It’s a circle track motor, it doesn’t need to be symmetrical. 🙂
Yes I agree. Talk to Nick Panaritis of Nick's Garage. Also try uncle Tony's garage.
As Hannibal Smith used to say, "I love it when a plan comes together!"
Using braided fishing line to cut adhesive backing on emblems and vin plate works the best. It doesnt change the curvature of the plate from prying.
Thanks for another great video, it'll be interesting to hear what the head mystery will bring forward.
That frame paint looks better than most junk around, would of left it!👍
It has asymmetric suspension, why not asymmetric heads? What could go wrong? :)
Agree 👍
If the cam grinder was really twisted they could grind a a cam with asymmetric lift to make the inlet flow even on both banks. Then just close the inlets a bit later on the high comp side to bleed off that extra 2cc of compression.
I would port and flow test the heads to get them to match and make the Combustion chamber the same on both and then look at your block and see if the water jackets are being used if not weld them up and Machine them flat and run it
Does the block you're using have a matching water passage?
Consider: Drill additional flow into older head currently without. Equalize. Bo.
Sharpen the point on that spring punch! You had me cringing when you pried on the tag without heating it. Lucky.
Reach out to *Uncle Tony's Garage* RUclips channel. He's in TN. He specializes in Mopar, and has been doing them since the 60's. He'd love to help you. He has complete sets of matching *Unmachined* (as in, just taken off the block, but never rebuilt) heads he could be talked out of, along with the knowledge of 30 plus years of Mopar racing, to make recommendations on modifications for circle track use.
Your better off getting another smog head , earlier blocks and pistons make up the compression part , cheaper head in the long run & it'll make 400 hp just like the old ones just do it cheaper!!👍👍😀😀😀😀on a good day ,about 400 hp is what the old one made! People think they made more, they didn't
I'd suggest that finding another early 440 head to match the one you've got is the simplest solution. Beats the hell out of overengineering it to try to make them identical (cuz they're not and they never will be).
Hi David, I would go for 2 1976 heads for better cooling, get them port flowed and skim the heads to get that 2cc off.
Richard Ehrenberg at Mopar Action will know in an instant if those heads will work together !
After removing the VIN plate, there should be VIN stamped under that VIN plate. I had done it on my '76 Honda CB360T and found matching VIN stamped under the VIN plate.
You should come to Pate Swap meet. April 22-24, 2021. It's at Texas motor speedway. It'd probably be a worth while experience for the crew and who knows you could find a set of matching heads. 73s from Hillsboro Texas
Seems like it would be easier to just get a couple more smog heads that match.
Im not sure it would be worth having a hot bank from potentially one head being a thicker casting.
906 or 915 heads used to be the hot setup. 915 is higher compression. Later heads have hardened exhaust seats which you may want.
Does the block have a water port for the heads in that spot ?
Good, my god, most important question ! 👍👍👍
Find a head that matches one of the heads you already have or get a pair of heads that match from an earlier model that will increase power. IMHO, put the head numbers out where we can see them, maybe someone has one available. Contact Nicks garage, bet he could fix you up in a heart beat.
I believe the fasteners on the VIN tag may be drive screws. You might take a look at the parts book to see.
Tony from uncle Tony's garage.....Mopar guru
Davin' work method tidy and clean
What I would do is trying your best of getting a matching set of Heads that have water jackets that matches. Due to that you should try to have enough water flowing through the whole engine. Which would keep your engine running better than having no water flowing through the whole engine. Be getting better performance with having enough water flowing through the whole engine that I would be doing. Trying my best to have matching set of Heads for that type of Engine.
Since it is a Mopar I would contact the owner of the T.V. show Graveyard Cars, I know that he would know what the difference in those cylinders heads would be.
Yes! That guy is a walking encyclopedia!
Is having two different heads a bad thing? The car is only going to turn one direction so would one bank tend to run lean? How can that be compensated for? could the smaller runners help keep the velocity of the air up and thus help keep the mixture consistent? The chamber volume is actually easy to change if you are going to deck the head anyway.
I think people often use a chisel to hit those hammered in screw rivets from inside the neck.
Buddy Baker once told me he could make a car handle with 4 stiff wheels or 4 soft wheels, but he cannot make a car handle properly with a mixture. Keep your springs and shocks the same. This is old school.
Thanks for share knowledge, man! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Just find and buy a matching head.There everywhere.Nick would tell you the same thing.
Ask the king of nascar richard petty...with two hundred wins i bet he knows which head is best...my vote..get another smog head with the water ports..you gotta have superior cooling on a race engine
Check with Jed at Scott's speed shop in Kansas he buys and sells mopar parts, and would have a lot of great information to help you with the build
Aftermarket cast iron! Make em match
Keep the high-compression head and find a mate for it. Trying to deal with a non-symmetrical head situation is just lunacy.
I don’t understand why you wouldn’t get some matching, hipo aluminum heads to save weight and increase performance. It is a race car after all.
Go to the junk yard and match the early head. Traverse City should have a good selection of junk yards around there.
Check the laws in your state...removal of VIN tag even for repainting purposes is generally illegal. Do people to it? Of course, but they don't tend to display this publicly! The shop who told you they tape it off gave you a proper legal answer.
Yes, and in some country's even the minimal indication of alteration of the rivets is a coupon valid for a BIG LEGAL PROBLEM.
It will be fine.
Illegal to remove the tag from your pillow too, right.....whatever
@@Wrenchen-with-Darren try yourself.
The Roadkill in me says smash it together and go with it. The sensible person in me says either Nick on Nicks Garage or Steve Dulcich or even both!
2843906 casting 1968-70 383/440 79.5cc 2.08/1.74 valve heads should work fine with your block and are relatively common.
Do you really plan to race the thing on ovals ? If not, why not make it go straight as an awesome drag/street monster ??
Nick's garage or Steve from motortrend would be your best bet for info
Definetly call Nick from nicks garage. He is the mopar engine king!
Ok, for the water jacket issue... is it possible to drill openings on the older head to match the openings on the 78 head? Without causing structural issues of course.
What is the material the tag is made off????
Lasting all those years and the paint still looking that freash!!!
Great video...tks for sharing
The 452 casting heads have a steam passage, find another 452 head and port them some and drive the snot out of it.
I love your videos BUT I wish you didn’t fast forward through steps since RUclips allows viewers to play videos up to 2x regular speed if they want. I’d learn even more from you guys if I could see all the footage at regular speed. Thanks for taking the time to make this great content.
You can reduce the speed yourself.
@@Hanzyscure I knew someone would tell me that after I wrote my comment. Fair enough.
Its another mainly talking channel
The circuit racing may be the reason why those heads are a mismatch. Does the block have matching water ports for the heads? If so, then I'd just try to make those heads even. If not, then the early style. It has better deck, and more meat in it to grind off. With that said, the casting series on the earlier models have more "tolerances" than the newer models, which also have a lot of monday-pieces in circulation. So, the early style has it's benefits, but finding good ones might be more problematic than with the newer style. For the question of the cooling, I'd try to contact a mechanic who has built these circuit racers. It might as well be, that the other head needs different cooling than the other, or just as well, the motor has been slapped together from parts available. Uncle Tony's Garage has a good video on cast iron Mopar heads and their differences.
I would have just ground the head down and drilled them out, but your way worked fine. Plus you have the video to show when the cops question you about the bike being stolen since you pulled the vin plate. LOL
Looks like you were using gaffer tape instead of the dreaded duct tape. Very good.
Can't answer your head question, but putting the tires in parts washer is genius. Will this do away with the burn out box?🤔
I don’t think roundy rounders do the burn out box thing!
Find a Symmetrical haed don't matching them together. Cheers guys 👍 💯
When you resurface the heads, can you take a couple of extra thousandths off of the SMOG head to increase and match the compression?
I think it's impossible to compensate for the differences between the heads with just a cam - just get the same head. And the different suspension for the sides of a car are a terrible Idea - maybe it's possible to fit a stabilizer there - it's helps with cornering more that anything else, I know from experience. Of course this car isn't going to be raced, but still...
Contact Petty enterprises. He has a speed shop in his old place in level cross, probably has some old stuff laying around.
Chris Birdsong at Junkerup on RUclips. Mopar man and late-model racer.
even if you try to port the heads to match they will not be as good as just finding a second 68 to 70 head for the other bank of the engine. there not hard to find Mopar made millions of them the 440 was there economy big block engine for everything they made you may be able to find a head locally if you look . I know it's a pain but it's the best for the performance of the engine in the long run
uncle tony is on you tube ask him.
Center punch the rivet head and then drill the head off the rivet! Aircraft practices.
You can buy the original rivets from Honda. Part number is 90841-041-000. It is one piece not a set so you will need to buy 2 of them
you should do some older volvo stuff next project! i might know where you can find an old volvo 122/amazon, and you should come check out my volvo swapped BRE datsun pickup!
I would bet the smog head was cast from poor quality material, so no matter how much work you put into matching them there will be different expansion rates and issues. Weigh the heads just for giggles and see if there is a significant difference.
Couldn't you find heads that match the year of the block ? I would think that would make the most sense. Just throwing this out there. Other wise I would junk the smog head and find another head to match the older one.
Get in touch with NICKS GARAGE on RUclips. He’s the go to Mopar guy.
Use Paint thinner to remove the glue residue.
This may be a stupid suggestion but, could you simply farm the head without the water jacket ports out to a machine shop, have them bolt it down to a 4+ axis machine and machine to match? I know it would technically no longer be a casting but would it not work?
I would have tried to push them rivets out from inside the headstem
My question is which head does the block match? Does the block have the water jacket port that match the newer head or the the older? That’s how I would decide what to do.
What about a Chrysler mono leaf spring and a old style coil over
I have a friend that is racing a vintage modified they have a touring club they run pennsylvania area
Use the 68 head and dump the 76-78 head and find another 68 head
Ok 👍