Ecotec Cold Start Timing Chain Rattle example and tensioner location 2.0 2.2 2.4 lsj l61 le5
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Common failure points of the ecotec line of engines.. The timing chain. A lot of times if the sound is fresh and you have a vehicle older then 2009 you have the old style tensioner and can get a new revision of it to replace your tiered old unit and be on your way. Other times your chain is stretched or you have broken guides in which case youll need a full timing set to replace everything which imo is worth just pulling the engine out to do because its so much easier although it can be done in the car easy enough as well just tight. This problem exists on a TON of GM cars which you can find in this wiki en.wikipedia.o... with the earlier the year being the more problematic. This issue has been resolved around the 2009 model year with the late gen 2 and 3 variations for most engines so if your vehicle is 2010 and newer you "shouldnt" have this problem. Most people Have the usual Cobalt, Ion, cavalier, sunfire, grand am, malibu, l-series, hhr, G5, alero etc.
A good current link for the newest revision part is found here on Amazon. www.amazon.com...
Thanks for this. A lot of the guides talked about cold start and a rattle but hearing it's hard to tell exactly what they mean.
The timing tensioner is hydraulic. Using you motor oil from your oil sump. If you’re low on oil or need an oil change or using the wrong oil. You can cause premature catastrophic engine failure. (Refuse the tensioner of oil pressure and your timing will depart reality)
Pro tip for anyone who likes to save money by wrenching themselves. These tensioners are in a really crappy spot. If you're lucky you can get a ratchet on it and it'll break loose. If you're unlucky, like me, you can get a ratchet on it and it won't break loose. It was looking like I might have to pull the head off to get an impact on it. Luckily the Astro Pneumatic 1822 and 32mm socket fit between the engine and firewall on my 2012 Terrain. Best $96 I've spent in a long time.
Hu??? Just get a breaker bar my dude. Or even better, old school. Ratchet and put a pole on it for leverage.. Physics.
YESSSSSS! 100% - This really used to bother me on my wife's cobalt that we don't have anymore. It seems to hard start like this and like the cam possibly rattles as well? I was surprised to find out these have timing chains which I guess is nice though. I bought a 2004 Grand am with 109k on it. Seems like we should be able to get some more miles on it :D
Hey. I was juat wondering how your car is doing years later with just the tensioner replaced.
Those chains stretch also the chain guide on the intake side its common for that guide to break at the top. When that happens the chain will ride on the bolt introducing metal into the oil. that can be easily inspected by removing the camshaft cover. Shine a light down below the intake cam along the chain. If its rattling just replace the timing set. GM sells it as a kit with guides and tensioner. Also replace the waterpump/ balance shaft chain as it will be stretched as well. I ve seen the chains with significant stretch as low as 70k VVT versions require a holding tool
I got the latest revision and it effing sucks as well, sometimes it rattles, especially after long drives and higher Temps, sometimes it doesn't. Suspecting one cam sprocket not locking up, but exhaust one is brand new, and engine after full rebuilt with brand new timing chain kit from Cloyes
I have a 2007 Ion with the 2.4 and manual trans. At 125,000 I put a new timing chain set in complete as general maintenance. I opted for a Cloyes OEM set. Spared no expense on quality parts. Oil changed always at 3,000 miles (not by the computer oil change rest that goes up to 7,500). I now have 145,000. At temps below 30 degrees F, I get the loud lifter rattle type sound on cold start. I just don't want to believe it is the timing chain. Ever see a lifter going bad do this too?
That could possibly be normal, check the TSB's, sometimes they talk about "extreme cold" starts. However, I don't know exactly what temperature GM considers an "extreme cold" environment, I assume it's below freezing, which in your case 30*F would be below freezing. www.bbbind.com/free-tsb/
Although, if this started only after replacing the timing chain, I would also contact the manufacturer of your timing chain themselves.
Let me know if you discover anything!
Similar boat. 147k miles. Rattle when cold. 07 2.2 oil changes every 3k. Funny because I have an 05 malibu with 200k (bad trans) can sit for weeks and wont rattle on a cold start
This is from the manual slight pinging is normal under stressed acceleration like towing or hills and first start up if you can hear it inside the cabin under normal idle there is an issue
New updated tensioner is junk too. There is not enough lock positions to keep slack out of chain. Even when all timing components are new tensioner only tightens chain when oil pressure comes up. Early designs the ratchet mechanism was weak and didn't hold. The newest only have 3 locking positions which is not enough. I got sick of the crap and now modify the tensioners I install. I remove some of the internals and install a 7/16 fine thread bolt on the end of the tension so I can adjust the chain tension myself and lock it. Proper tension is finger tight on the tension bolt and lock tight. Every few oil changes I check tension and about every 25k it will take about 1/8 turn to snug the chain up again. No more cold rattle ever.
Does having this rattle impact the engine at all? I get it on startup on my 15' 2.4 equinox only when the car has been sitting for longer than an hour. Planning to drive it 600 miles in a few weeks and was on the fence about getting the chain replaced since I'm inching towards 140k miles but do stay on top of oil changes.
@dennisborn1382 man, it drives me nuts, just rebuilt the engine , with everything new, and it does it occasionally. When I checked it to find the issue, the tensioner does move back nearly all the way if pushed with extension or large screwdriver, such a stupid design. I wish they stole design from older toyota or something, when engine is crap, but tensioner keeps it alive... I quite didn't get it where do you put threaded bolt ? At the end of the tensioner where it pushes the guide? if there is a way to make custom design with more locking positions, with smaller steps?
Mine is exactly like this, only a 2 or 3 seconds on start up but intermittently. I’m gonna try just the tensioner first.
Do you have to pull the valve cover to do the tensioner?
did replacing the tensioner solve the issue?
The rattle is the guide but also carbon build up on the lifters... I have not found one person who actually got the problem solved. 9/10 its the plastic guide that breaks and not the tensioner. Also, If the car rattles when its cold and quiets down when it gets warm. It's a sign the lifters are also going bad that cover the valves, under the top cover. You're welcome.
Using the wrong oil can also cause the same rattle because the tensioner is oil fed for tension (hydraulic tensioner) and my 2013 Captiva start rattling like this at cold start at 4500km after oil change due to only having 2.5-3L of oil left. Caused by the factory defected oil rings on the pistons burning oil off.
Ensure you’re using DEXOS1 oil. 5w30 and nothing different.
Ensure levels are topped off. Usually happens when oil has lost its integrity. When cold. Once moving through the tensioner (oil fed hydraulic tensioner) the tensioner does its job. 🎉
I've got p0016 and p0017 codes and every common fix I've come across has not worked. Im thinking maybe the timing chain is ultimately the problem. Damn. I was trying to avoid an expensive repair, but I think replacing the timing chain myself is wayyy out of my very novice wheelhouse. I guess I'll be off to the shop...
I never understood why people take these engines out to to the timing. Its very easy to do.
Mine has this noise and burns oil, thoughts?
I have an 04 Saturn vue with the 2.2 ecotec, 156,000 miles. It rattles like that when I start it (warm or cold) and has a constant light rattle noise the whole time it’s running, most noticeable on idle. I got the p0172 code for the first time after fixing the charcoal canister (to fix a p0455 code) and I read that the engine running rich could mean the timing chain stretched or skipped a tooth. I’m not driving it for a week or so now until I can change out the timing chain, I hope it goes ok and isn’t too crazy difficult. I got an eBay timing chain, I read that they (usually) work just as good as OEM, anyone have experience with that?
Damn bro, never buy ebay lmao how's your cat doing 2 years after? 😢
@@presidentemaiq8652 I actually ended up successfully replacing the timing chains myself, didn't even have to pull the engine to do it. It ran like a top after that, no clacking or anything. Then like a year later (which a year of reliable driving was worth the 1000 bucks total I'd put into the car), the clutch slave cylinder went out and it hasn't been driven since. The whole front sub frame and trans has to be removed for the stupid slave cylinder to be replaced... so it still runs great, but can't move!
My 2017 terrain sounds like this when I cold start it and noticed RPM needle will go all Tempe way up like normal then stays above the 1 for 15 secs then the noise gets a little quieter . Could timing belt cause that?
Mine rattles at high rpm but not on start up. I just bought a new updated GM tensioner for it. I hope it fixes my issue. It literally just started and I have 112000 miles on the car. It's a 05 cobalt ls.
If the Chain is rattling it is a safe bet, even with the older tensioners, the Chain has stretched and should be replaced - including Gear set. The biggest enemy of the older tensioners was/is lack of maintenance. Dirty oil blocking flow into the tensioner, creating sack and accelerating wear.
* Mine(HHR) actually failed while turning off the car, with no indication.Jumped timing. Went to start the car the next morning and had fast spinning engine and no start. All 8 intake valves were bent from attempting to start the car.
Total to Repair(DIY), including a rebuilt head $600-$800 - If the Pistons are not damaged.
I rebuilt the head on this engine and guess what. Even after replacing the tensioner, guides, and chain. There was still some slack on the chain that would appear on the top between the two sprockets as I spun the engine. I even compared the old chain to the new one and there was no stretch at all in the old one. I believe this is just a defect on these engines
@@AlexHernandez-xh8ei Nope. Just completed mine yesterday and it is running great.
Only one of 3 things will cause Slack in a chain with all new parts.
1 - Tensioner not unlocked properly after installation.
2 - No Oil pressure going to Tensioner.
3 - Turning the Engine counter-clockwise then checking.
*The engine should never be turned counter clock as it immediately slackens the chain and can cause timing to jump.
These engines are actually very dependable if well maintained. some have exceeded 200k easily before needing any critical service. Others, not so much.
Hard driving, harsh acceleration, increased chain wear - reducing life span.
Missed oil changes, cheap filters, harsh environment all reduce engine life.
Today my HHR with a Rebuilt head is almost as snappy as brand new. Just missing the new car smell.
There is an American gmc recall on all these engines but nothing here in Canada, why GMC why?...
Is the light ticking noise normal for these engines or is that a lighter issue?
I have a 2012 Chevy Malibu 2.4 120k miles. Replaced everything. Oilpump, all chains, guides, tensioners, cam phasers and phaser solenoids. Still rattles on start up but quiet and smooth while driving. Got an exhaust phaser code that comes up every now and then but never illuminates the check engine light. Can't think of the exact code. That tensioner is on the exhaust phaser side which makes me think it's loose on start up and pumps up after oil pressure hits. It's a brand new tensioner, new style. Sludge in the head maybe?
I wouldnt risk it, change the timing set up or at least the tentioner! If your getting out of phase codes i would assume your chain linkage is stretched, id recommend replacing the entire timing set up!
I have a 2011 regal 2.4 ecotec and had the rattle issue intermittently. Upon doing research I finally got it to stop. I believe it was the oil filter, it was restricting oil flow to the furthest parts of the engine causing rattle noise at start up. I wasn't using the recommended filter to save money. I started using AC DELCO like the one that originally came with car and rattle has totally stopped. I actually saw the insides of the AC DELCO and another brand and the AC DELCO has a less restrictive filtering system in it allowing for a freeer and less restricting flow so the oil can reach furthest spots upon start up. At time of post I have 90,000 original miles and never had any repairs, knock on wood!
@@markpalladino572 Thanks a lot for posting this. Really helpful. Will give it a try. My HHR is having the same intermittent noise when starting in very cold days. Drives well with no other issue.
Make sure you use 5w30 and only A/C Delco filter. Some other filters are more restrictive and oil doesn't reach the highest point of the engine upon start up causing chain etc. rattle.
@@ibenzawla my 2011 was still running perfect at 104,000 but was getting gas in oil more than normal so I was so paranoid I changed oil every 1000 mi. I used Walmart hi mi synthetic and didn't change the filter till every 5000 mi. $18 for synthetic oil is good and I changed myself so it wasn't such a financial burden. Oh and also these engines are known to use oil too, mine used about 1/2 qt every 1000. It ran perfect til the end when on 10/20/2021 some guy fell asleep at the wheel an hit me head on.
It was totaled and i got $9000 from insurance, I got so much because my baby was like new and the ajuster takes condition into consideration. I wish i could send you a picture some how.
Thanks for the info, I have been hunting the web for some real information on this topic, and there doesn't seem to be much talk on the subject. Forums these days are pretty much void of any activity once Facebook came around. :@
Have the third version with the cone shaped hump on the bolt head. It also has failed. Same start up noise. Frustrating.
No reason for the 3rd gen tensioner to fail on its own. It has better oil passage and larger oil capacity.
*most suspect is poor maintenance leading to carbon particles restricting flow to critical part.
Things to verify
Tensioner condition. Gen 3 easy to disassemble, inspect and reset for reinstallation.
Timing chain wear and Guide damage
Proper oil pressure - Dirty oil puts wear on the oil pump mounted in the timing over.
^If you are getting noise from a relatively new tensioner(and it was properly installed and released) the likely issue i worn out Chain, Gears and guides. Replace as a set. Cloyes sells the most complete sets for this motor, with or without the Water pump set. (Gaskets not included)
I put a new model tensioner on mine and it fixed the sound. I do notice some occasional rattle at 3k under hard accel. I’d say I need a new chain. But startup and idle is quiet as a mouse.
Did you find out if the rattle at 3k rpm was normal? My 2015 Chevy Captiva seem's to make a rattle around 3500rpm under hard accel also.
trillobite it went away after I put 10w30 in my car. Of course my ecotec is the 2005 problem child’s. Seems to be solid now.
@@WardDallas, thanks for the reply. What weight were you using before the 10w-30? 5w-30? I am just wondering, since I am currently using 5W-30 Magnatec. (Dexos of course)
trillobite I was using the recommended 5w30. My car has some miles and it’s a work vehicle so I gave it a shot.
Did you just unscrew and screw the new one in?
just about impossible to tell from listening if it’s TC, TCT(tensioner), intake actuator sprocket, or oil is sludgy blocking oil holes either of last 2👋
I have a 2.2 ecotech with 230k.. All I've done is changed oil every 4-5k and just replaced coil packs 100 miles ago.. She's a champ but is getting tired.. I don't have this issue on start up but do have a weird noise coming from motor at 3-3500 rpms.. Someone said it sounds like a timing chain whine? Anybody else experience this kind of noise? Or am I the only one with a 230k mile ecotech lol
I do, mine is around 2k rpm. I'm chainging it today... haha
I bought a G5 4 years ago with 80,000 miles on it and it makes a similar noise for about 5 seconds at cold start , it has 170,000 on it now and the sound is still the same , I need to change the chain and tensioners anyway , I'm curious as to why it would still sound the same fter all the miles I have put on it . I don't drive it hard and change oil every 3000 miles , what do you think ? Thanks for posting this , it's almost identical to what I have been hearing ,thanks.👍👍
Better chain it b4 it breaks. So u can put another hundred thousand on it lol
At what millage should those guides and timing chain be replaced 100,000 miles? As maintenance for the eco tec 2.2 engine l61 I’ve heard they are notorious for the guides breaking
Fresh55n9ne to be honest I would stay on the safe side and replace the chains every 80-90k at the longest. I’ve seen cars with 110k on them that had them snap or are extremely stretched somehow in that time. It’s really a toss up and it’s a fairly intrusive job so a lot of people just don’t want to do the work or pay the 8 hour labor cost for it and drive them til they blow.
Built Performance LLC is it worth changing the timing chain
My tensioner went bad at 83k and the chain skipped teeth.
My Saturn vue with the 2.2 has the original timing chain, from what I can tell, and it has 156,000 miles. It’s amazing it lasted this long, but I’m changing out the chain asap
I agree with Built. If your Ecotec is has been running OK for 80-90k on the same chain...why push it? Go ahead and get that new chain kit installed and you should be OK for another 80-90k. But after about 50k start paying attention to the chain. Pull the valve cover and check for any slack, and look at the top chain guide for excessive wear. Those are good indicators that your timing chain may cause serious problems later on.
I had that done and mines still dose it??? And I replaced the starter and crank sensor any idea??? The car is in great shape bought it brand new it’s my wife car and it only has 116000 on it and those are highway miles! Sometimes it doesn’t sound like the timing sounds like something stupid that just want to break my pockets! And know check engine light on do it’s really bugging me and the start and stop is acting up!
“These ones fuckin suck!” 😂😂😂
I have an 04 cavalier that makes a ticking noise. It almost sounds like an injector but it's too loud to be one.
If its all the time its not normally this however i would at least remove the valve cover and check that the upper guides are in place and not in pieces as they are plastic and tend to break a lot leaving the timing chain to flail around
Word. I'm gonna take the valve cover off soon. At 97k miles do you think i could get away with Reusing the valve cover gasket?
@@CaptainDerp My Redline with a 2.0 has 143k and I reuse my valve cover gasket. As long as you are careful, and clean the gasket of debris, you'll be fine. Just inspect it to be sure there are not any obvious signs of damage.
if its a timing chain, would it happen every startup?
Yes
I have a fix on this...no need to change the tensioner! I have rectified the fault in the tensioner
Can still hear it rattling after it's running
My fan is the same way but kind of a more of a knock to it but I changed the chain in it now it's got a brand new one it is still does it 😭
Mines been doing that for months. Makes the noise badly, sometimes it goes away sometimes it doesn't. Don't know how the thing still runs
I have a 2015 Malibu w/240k and it has begun to do that on a cold start
rip
Built Performance LLC
If you come across one I highly suggest to make a how to video on it
I'm surprised it lasted that long. The colder it is the worse the noise. Anyone find the fix?
@@Monster33336 the noise went away after having the vacuum pump changed the only issue now is my car dies when the auto stop tries to turn the car back on.
The dealership said that the issue is bad injectors it is a 1200 repair
The car sits @248,800ish, there’s no check engine light on which seems odd if the injectors have gone bad but the dealership has never been wrong with issue that the car has had which is minimal until now.
Repairs to date are 3k total which isn’t bad for having it 5yrs and keeping up with regular maintenance.
I always thought the sound is super embarrassing first thing in the morning and trying to start the damn car up
Does this affect the 2012 Malibu with the LE9 engine? I was asking because I know LE9 is an Ecotec as well.
No it was revised for the 2009 and later model years so your safe.
Thanks
Ours is a 2011 and has this problem. I have also heard that 2013 Malibu has this problem, so the 2009 revision doesn't mean anything and after 2009 GM still used plastic parts as far as I know!
I'm looking to buy a 2011 Buick Regal with the Eco Tec 2.4L, is this plagued with the same problems or have they fixed the issues?
All GM 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 EcoTec engines have timing chain issues.
I have a 2007 solstice, upon start up it does not make no clunking like that. It’s makes a knocking noise a few seconds after it’s on. When I rev it’s louder and faster. Can it be a phaser or broken timing chain guides?
Could be a exhaust leak. My 2.2L ecotec has a tick that is coming straight from the exhaust manifold.
It sounds cammed on mine. Gonna replace with newer engine which takes the same amount of time.
If it sounds cammed it most likely skipped a tooth on timing. Hopefully this went well for you in the end.
You gotta watch about just pitting a tensioner in it. You take that it out i've had my cams jump at a whack
My 2.4 non turbo SS is doing the same thing with timing chain, im hoping i can get it replaced and thats all it needs and no major damage is done. IT didnt happen until AFTER i changed my oil to that BS quaker stake crap, i started the car the next morning after changing it and my timing chain was making noises. i switched the oil immediately thinking that would help but it was too late a shop qouted me $750+ for the timing chain replacement, is that a good deal?
STREETRACEN4U i have the same issue but mine is 2015 and dies after a few mins
I still havent put the car in the shop yet but i will in the next few days i will update everyone if it can be saved or not
Does anyone know if these issues also affected the Saab 9-3 with the B207 2.0L turbo engines which are Saab-modified Ecotec motors? I know these motors use Ecotec blocks but I've read that most of the other components were all designed & engineered by Saab.
I have a Saab 9-3 2.0t occasionally when it's hot outside or I just drove a short trip. When I restart the engine could still be hot, warm, or cold it will make a 1-2 second rattle sound and stop with no chatter afterwards not like in this video. Mine also already has the Buble on the tensioner even though it's rust in color. What's yours doing?
I.have a,2004 sunfire ech tec no problem it is how you.maintain your car
Not entirely. Chain will eventually stretch. Guides will eventually wear out.
Every single one of these engines rattle like that cause it’s a shitty design, I’ve found a new tensions doesn’t solve the issue of it gets too loose the chain is likely stretched as well. This one in the video isn’t too bad actually
Is the tick from 1:10 on normal? I have a 06 HHR that makes that same tick. I want to give the car to my mother for a grocery getter but don't wanna leave her stranded.
yes
Dealing with one right now... Is it me or does it seem like all these cars nowadays are total dogshit? I shoulda been a chef making muffins lol
Max Power here to tell you that the kitchen life sucks ASS! Would rather be doing this stuff?? let’s trade jobs
@@talyaho9329 lets fk like frfr
Mine doesnt sound like that mine jjst makes this ticking sound
Did you find out?
@@Messi_ronaldo207it was the black timing chain guide, if you just take off the valve cover, you can see if any guides are broken bro, the left and right one, and you can see if your timing chain guide is also broken just by taking off the valve cover
Just one other note: I am actually going to be taking my Captiva with an LE5 in to the dealer. I am getting quite a lot of metallic noise on the passenger side of the engine, very low MPG, 16MPG on a good day, stalling right after startup, lots of misfire readings across all 4 cylinders... and yet... no check engine light... Has anyone ever read the diagnostics off a 2.4L ecotec with a bad timing chain with an ELM327 reader and the Torque app? It has taken me quite a while to narrow down the symptoms of my car, and at least one dealer told me, "we can't do anything until there is a check engine light." So I need to walk in with all the evidence, or they will walk all over me.
I dont know off hand what that code means but, at least changing your timing tentioner or, changing the entire timing set would be a good idea...
What was it? I’m having the EXACT same issue
I mighttry installing a new primary tensioner without deactivating it or should i say activated, do t see the need to remove the valve cover n all, correct me if im wrong anyone?
You can certainly try playing with fire if your feeling dangerous. I personally did this one in the video without pulling the valve cover or anything but i mean you have to really listen and watch to know your not jumping teeth in there. Risky game to say the least so youd have to be ready to replace the engine if that happens lol.
I caved and pulled the cover off lol thanks for the heads up 😎 turns out the old one was not activated, felt it activate on the way out, deactivated it and reeinstalled it the reactivated it, works wonders now, so eone didnt do their job right apparently.
Wow, noisey sewing machine!
cant hear shit
Mines getting harder to start would this cause that issue
Could be a number of different things.. My g5 starts hard sometimes but I also had a multiple misfire and big evap leak.. Misfire been fixed and still starts hard every now an then
Sometimes 2-3 times to get it to go lol I also have 230k on all stock engine